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主席有請嚴主委我們請主委林委員好主委好今天我要質詢的一個議題是比較嚴肅的雖然我們都知道在退伏會的部分很多的題目當然都是著重一種服務的部分但是在服務的部分裡頭呢有一個就是跟公車有關"},{"start":26.587,"end":55.264,"text":"那麼過去我其實在委員會當中不只一次的質詢有關於經濟部或國安局就是我們的公車系統裡面如果有中國製造的話那麼會非常危險它形同是一台這個中國放在台灣內部的不論是真房車、間諜車等等那麼現在我要您看一下這是我們在我們新興跟大南客運當中的環景系統所以環景系統就是公車在路上跑但是"},{"start":56.204,"end":73.817,"text":"它為了安全起見所以它會拍攝到許多的路人車子跟街景而現在呢居然被抓到的是我們的公車系統當中用的是海思晶片海思晶片 海思半導體它是什麼樣的一個"},{"start":75.378,"end":103.768,"text":"民營企業呢是中國中華人民共和國廣東省深郡市言下之意他就是華為底下的公司而新興跟大南客運所使用的中國海思晶片晶片就在台灣我們雙北地區的公車跑來跑去這是一個非常嚴重的國安問題而且我現在"},{"start":104.888,"end":120.13,"text":"給的這張畫面是提供給我的人所拍攝時機在公車上面直擊下來的他甚至於企圖去塗抹把這個海思晶片的Logo把它去除掉"},{"start":121.55,"end":143.969,"text":"我在4月7號所資的時候當時第一時間新興跟大南所說的這些公車品牌都講到了它的環境系統產地有台灣有荷蘭但是經過我提供了這個照片之後4月8號所更正的資料裡面發現確實沒錯新興客運它的公車廠牌是創意"},{"start":148.633,"end":175.731,"text":"系統商是誠意而他使用的晶片是製造地中國大南客運同樣有這一間公車的廠牌跟他的系統商他所用的環景系統依舊是中國我第一時間要求提供採購時間為什麼因為我在想會不會是多年以前的合約所以以至於誤用了所謂的中國製造的晶片但是我發現採購時間竟然是"},{"start":178.774,"end":186.755,"text":"最接近的114年言下之意就是2025年也就是去年所以這整體的事件我要請"},{"start":188.188,"end":215.964,"text":"主委好好的來調查跟了解而目前對於這樣的一個廠商因為我們都知道在我們的這個切結書當中都有特別提到的就是嚴禁中國製造結果就這麼巧是一個拍攝台灣台北市雙北街景的環境系統裡面竟然就用了中國製造的晶片"},{"start":216.644,"end":217.785,"text":"所以說對於這樣的一個完全把切結書視為無物的廠商或者是系統商請問一下主委我們應該要如何來處置跟處理"},{"start":229.751,"end":258.539,"text":"县委员提供这个资讯我们也认为这个非常严重不能用中国大陆的这个制品是不可以的我们查目前这两家公司的电动公车这个环境系统它是按照当初是按照政府采购法公告来采购也是交通部审验合格的厂牌跟车型但是合约规范里面就已经规范不可以使用中国的一些产制品这在合约规范里面有的而且交通部当初也叫厂商做切结都已经完成这些程序了"},{"start":259.099,"end":274.251,"text":"而且目前我们查到的确是有这两家公司有违规的这个违反违反契约的这个中国制的一个产品我们现在的做法就是我们呃成立一个专业小组啊要去做全面的普查看这公司里面到底还有哪些"},{"start":274.952,"end":289.58,"text":"晶片是屬於這個公司的所有的全面做一個普查這是第一個第二個當然就是要提出球場向廠商追廠按照契約並且要更換這些所有的產品那目前跟委員做以上的報告"},{"start":290.468,"end":299.374,"text":"因為根據我現在手上的資料就是這兩家客運公司在雙北地區營運加起來是有700輛也就是新興有474輛而大南有259輛但是不全部都是這兩家廠商所以目前為止這一家廠商所以我要詢問的就是創意的公車品牌裡面的系統商使用的誠意的這個部分有幾輛"},{"start":320.228,"end":322.369,"text":"星星有幾亮 大南有幾亮現在有數字嗎 還是還在清查當中因為如果根據合約的話所以我要知道的是到底還有多少個這個MIC 就中國製造的晶片正在每天喔 在陸上 在雙北的"},{"start":336.714,"end":352.228,"text":"公車路線上不斷的在拍攝因為我們都知道海思過去一直有個狀況就是他會回傳這個所謂後門的系統包括之前也有說這個海思的晶片會把家裡面的狀況是回傳到中國去那麼我們從去年114年這個合約簽訂之後到底已經跑了多少趟多少的公車這個其實是更要注意的"},{"start":365.555,"end":370.997,"text":"兩家公司的電動車,總共兩家是244輛,新興是175輛,大蘭是69輛那現在出問題,成益公司的新興是61輛,大蘭是21輛,所以總共有問題的是82輛"},{"start":382.842,"end":412.032,"text":"那麼這82輛有多少時間去做調度比如說他們是不是即刻起不能上路然後要花多少時間讓他們更換回來不是中國系統的晶片這個有沒有一個工作期程跟時間點我們已經請兩家公司要按照這個重大事件的處理馬上就開始啟動已經在處理處理的時間大概是要多少到再跟委員做個回覆"},{"start":412.332,"end":423.898,"text":"好對於這樣的系統商我希望能夠列入黑名單那麼當然黑名單的部分也跟經濟部有關所以這個部分我也會去跟經濟部跟交通部來做進一步的質詢因為對於你們來講他們一定是給你們就像剛主委您說的是給了一個"},{"start":429.898,"end":445.443,"text":"可以來做採購的安全的名單嘛那這個部分我希望你們也回報給經濟部讓他們知道那我也會同樣帶著這份資料去相關的部門做質詢好不好我們一定交通部反映了好是 大家一起來做好 OK是 謝謝委員謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.129000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.629000+08:00","text":"主席，有請嚴主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.689000+08:00","text":"我們請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.750000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.970000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:20:46.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:21:31.278000+08:00","text":"今天我要質詢的是一個比較嚴肅的議題，雖然我們都知道在退輔會的部分，很多的題目當然都是著重在服務部分，但是在服務的部分，有一個就是跟公車有關，過去我其實在委員會當中不只一次質詢經濟部或國安局，就是我們的公車系統裡面如果有中國製造的話，那麼會非常危險，它形同是一臺中國放在臺灣內部的不論是偵防車、間諜車等等。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:21:32.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:22:02.519000+08:00","text":"現在我要您看一下，這是欣欣跟大南客運的環景系統，所謂的環景系統就是公車在路上跑，為了安全起見，它會拍攝到許多的路人、車子跟街景，現在居然被抓到我們的公車環景系統用的是海思晶片，海思晶片、海思半導體是什麼樣的民營企業呢？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:22:02.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:22:46.110000+08:00","text":"它是在中華人民共和國廣東省深圳市，言下之意，它就是華為底下的公司，而欣欣跟大南客運所使用的中國海思晶片，就在臺灣雙北地區的公車跑來跑去，這是一個非常嚴重的國安問題，而且我現在簡報中的這張畫面是提供給我的人在公車上面直擊拍下來的，他甚至於企圖去塗抹，把海思晶片的logo去除掉。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:22:47.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:23:29.123000+08:00","text":"我在4月7號索資的時候，當時第一時間回復，欣欣跟大南的公車廠牌的環景系統產地有臺灣、荷蘭，但是經過我提供了這個照片之後，4月8號所更正的資料裡面發現，確實沒錯，欣欣客運的公車廠牌是創奕、系統商是誠益，使用晶片的製造地是中國；大南客運同樣有這一間公車廠牌跟它的系統商，所用的環景系統的晶片產地依舊是中國。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:23:29.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:23:32.205000+08:00","text":"我第一時間要求提供採購時間，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:23:32.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:23:50.288000+08:00","text":"因為我在想會不會是多年以前的合約，以致於誤用中國製造的晶片，但是我發現採購時間最接近的竟然是114年，也就是2025年，也就是去年。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:23:50.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:24:23.765000+08:00","text":"所以這整起事件我要請主委好好的來調查跟了解，對於這樣的廠商，因為我們都知道在切結書當中都有特別提到嚴禁中國製造，結果就這麼巧在一個拍攝臺灣臺北市、雙北街景的環景系統裡面，竟然就用了中國製造的晶片，對於這樣一個完全把切結書視為無物的廠商或者是系統商，請問一下主委，我們應該要如何來處置跟處理？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:24:35.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:24:42.753000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員提供這個資訊，我們也認為這個非常嚴重，不能用中國大陸的製品，這是不可以的。","quality":0.541},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:24:43.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:25:12.405000+08:00","text":"我們查目前這兩家公司的電動公車環景系統，當初是按照政府採購法來公告採購，也是交通部檢驗合格的廠牌跟車型，但是合約規範裡面就已經規定不可以使用中國的產製品，這在合約規範裡面有，而且交通部當初也叫廠商做切結，都已經完成這些程序，目前我們查到這兩家公司的確是有違反契約的中國製產品。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:25:13.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:25:25.735000+08:00","text":"現在的做法就是我們成立一個專案小組要做全面普查，看公司裡面到底還有哪些晶片是屬於這個公司，全面做一個普查，這是第一個。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:25:25.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:25:35.560000+08:00","text":"第二個當然就是要提出求償，按照契約向廠商追償，並且要更換所有的產品，跟委員做以上報告。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:25:36.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:25:45.374000+08:00","text":"根據我現在手上的資料就是這兩家客運公司在雙北地區營運，加起來有700輛，欣欣有474輛、大南有259輛，但不全部都是這一家廠商，所以我要詢問的就是公車廠牌創奕裡面的系統商使用誠益的部分有幾輛？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:26:06.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:26:06.688000+08:00","text":"欣欣有幾輛、大南有幾輛，現在有數字嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:26:06.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:26:06.848000+08:00","text":"還是還在清查當中？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:26:06.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:26:25.957000+08:00","text":"如果根據合約的話，所以我要知道的是到底還有多少個MIC，即中國製造的晶片，每天在雙北的公車路線上不斷地在拍攝。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:26:25.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:26:37.787000+08:00","text":"因為我們都知道海思過去一直有一個狀況就是它會回傳，也就是所謂的後門系統，包括之前也有說海思晶片會把家裡面的狀況回傳到中國，從去年、114年這個合約簽訂之後，到底已經跑了多少趟、多少輛公車？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:26:37.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:26:38.208000+08:00","text":"這個其實是更要注意的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:26:51.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:26:56.997000+08:00","text":"報告委員，兩家公司的電動車總共是244輛，欣欣是175、大南是69；現在出問題的誠益公司，在欣欣是61輛、大南是21輛，所以總共有問題的是82輛。好。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:27:10.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:27:24.167000+08:00","text":"這82輛有多少時間去做調度，比如說，他們是不是即刻起不能上路、要花多少時間讓他們更換回不是中國系統的晶片，這個有沒有一個工作期程跟時間點？","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:27:24.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:27:38.332000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們已經請兩家公司要按照重大事件的處理，馬上就開始啟動，已經在處理了，大概要多少處理時間，我到時會再跟委員回復。好。","quality":0.768},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:27:38.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:28:07.301000+08:00","text":"對於這樣的系統商，我希望能夠列入黑名單，當然黑名單的部分也跟經濟部有關，所以這部分我也會去跟經濟部、跟交通部來做進一步的質詢，因為就像剛剛主委您說的，對於你們來講他們一定是給你們一個可以採購的安全名單，這個部分我希望你們也回報給經濟部，讓他們知道，我同樣也會帶著這份資料去相關部門做質詢，好不好？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:28:07.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:28:10.022000+08:00","text":"我們已經跟交通部反映了，大家一起來做。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-09T10:28:10.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:28:10.803000+08:00","text":"好，OK。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-09T10:28:11.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T10:28:11.443000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T10:28:11.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T10:28:13.943000+08:00","text":"謝謝林楚茵委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T10:28:14.243000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T10:28:17.671571+08:00","text":"接下來我們邀請王義川委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}