{"error":false,"id":["168378"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168378,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168378","日期":"2026-04-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-09T11:04:14+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-09T11:18:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:32","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc7720296edbe9e1fc30a49e36d97d29c5f775daf2063192877b00dc349e71b59095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"11:04:14 - 11:18:46","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部、農業部就「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：台灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.9422187500000001,"end":1.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.649718750000002,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.82659375,"end":13.176593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.54221875,"end":23.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.16659375,"end":131.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.97659375,"end":133.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.76534375,"end":134.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.46971875,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.63409375,"end":137.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.98409375,"end":147.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.54784375,"end":156.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.25971875000002,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.11596875,"end":158.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.22971875000002,"end":164.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.59159375000002,"end":179.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.12096875,"end":198.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.71721875,"end":208.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.02784375000002,"end":210.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.18784375,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.52034375000002,"end":217.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.41471875000002,"end":222.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.35471875000002,"end":224.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.83971875,"end":228.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.32909375000003,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.48471875,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.96096875,"end":231.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.73284375000003,"end":235.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.09534375,"end":244.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.39784375000002,"end":248.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.83596875,"end":256.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.66659375,"end":253.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.03721875,"end":271.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.84596875,"end":266.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.07284375,"end":277.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.46471875000003,"end":275.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.78534375000004,"end":275.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.92846875000004,"end":283.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.04159375,"end":283.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.39596875,"end":288.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.38659375000003,"end":313.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.25534375,"end":292.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.72034375000004,"end":317.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.06596875,"end":341.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.24284375,"end":318.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.01034375,"end":321.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.07721875000004,"end":325.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.73846875000004,"end":333.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.81721875,"end":341.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.86784375,"end":341.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.32346875,"end":370.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.45409375,"end":410.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.79596875000004,"end":397.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.59971875,"end":410.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.90346875,"end":443.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.56784375,"end":425.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.70971875000004,"end":436.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.53971875,"end":444.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.41284375000004,"end":491.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.83784375000005,"end":453.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.42784375,"end":457.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.60409375,"end":464.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.62784375,"end":473.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.52846875000006,"end":489.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.07659375000003,"end":491.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.05534375,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.47721875,"end":492.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.43721875000006,"end":506.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.97471875,"end":528.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.011593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我們請洪部長也請洪部長"},{"start":22.66,"end":37.811,"text":"黃委員好 部長好 今天大家關心這個外籍移工的這個問題 那其實我以彰化這邊為例 彰化中小企業是全台灣最多的一個地方 所以聘請 聘僱這個外籍移工"},{"start":38.611,"end":53.141,"text":"應該也算是非常的多啦那其實我也常聽到一些老闆就在講說那個外籍移工第一個可能就是說他們希望能夠有更就剛剛淑芬講的啦就是說"},{"start":53.961,"end":76.738,"text":"第一個是不是可以不用透過仲介然後直聘啦這個我相信很多這個地方的這個企業可能有這樣的一個想法那我希望就是說未來讓所有的這個中小企業他們直接這聘僱外籍移工能夠更加的便利直接就可以這個上網直接直接"},{"start":77.538,"end":84.182,"text":"就可以聘到這個外籍移工那另外我想請教就是說目前這個在台灣的這個外籍移工從這個2011年這個38萬多人到2026年的1月這個估計已經到目前為止是86萬人那這個人數是持續在成長那未來我們現在開放"},{"start":102.032,"end":121.847,"text":"這個家事的這個移工之後我相信應該會再增加這個從86萬應該會再增加搞不好會破百萬也不一定那這其中有一部分可能有十多萬是這個在台灣失聯的這個移工那我想說"},{"start":122.768,"end":147.038,"text":"部長在台灣這個失聯的移工從疫情期間到現在其實是每一年都一直持續在增加當中確實應該地方的人可能都會知道說哪些地方就是有這個失聯移工在那邊工作"},{"start":148.621,"end":154.91,"text":"我就覺得很奇怪那既然知道有這樣的一個狀況那失聯移工會衍生的一些問題確實"},{"start":159.312,"end":179.203,"text":"部長你應該也知道失聯移工會碰到的一些狀況一些問題我不知道說為什麼我們政府到現在也不會很強力去解決那另外就是說怎麼樣去解決這麼多的這個失聯移工逃跑移工"},{"start":180.883,"end":208.551,"text":"第一個是不是要改善這個移工的這個工作環境或者是這個工作的待遇或者是整個這個尤其是那個家事移工那是不是整個工作環境也要有所改善能夠減少這樣的一個移工的一個逃跑或者是移工的失聯我不知道說部長你們針對這一部分有沒有做怎樣的一個統計那怎麼樣做一個改善"},{"start":209.076,"end":234.201,"text":"跟有人說明第一個其實我們是很重視私人移工的問題那我們也必須坦白說這個由內政部的專勤隊那在事後來去做各種的查處那這個在草堡之前他會有做法好但是我們其實個人認為恐怕我們必須更從源頭的角度來看待這個事情我們為什麼"},{"start":236.141,"end":256.315,"text":"我們也認真的認為應該要針對這個目前的公平招募的問題大力推動一個很重要的原因是因為我們確實看到當一個移工他為了來台灣他要來付仲介費問招募費他付的金額越高的時候是"},{"start":257.116,"end":277.455,"text":"他失联的机会就越高当移工因为要来台湾工作他欠下的债务越多的时候他失联的比例就越高所以我们的公平招募的推动里面就是希望要降低移工必须来台湾付的钱跟他会欠的债务"},{"start":278.055,"end":304.148,"text":"好那你們怎麼去解決就是說你們既然都知道是這樣的一個狀況那你們怎麼解決就是說這個未還委員會每一年幾乎甚至每個會期都會提到這個外籍移工的相關的問題在委員會這邊討論那我也希望就是說每一次討論都要有一些進度大家關心的議題都要有一些進度那剛剛部長你講的就是說"},{"start":304.808,"end":318.919,"text":"可能仲介他要來台灣這個仲介費對一個醫工來講是一個很大的負擔那也許這個仲介費高的話他可能逃跑的機率也會高他變得他要去做其他打工然後"},{"start":319.699,"end":341.493,"text":"做高報酬的這樣的工作的機會會更大這會提高他的失聯率所以降低移工來台的欠債我認為其實也是改善失聯率其中一個非常非常重要的方式我們也聽到一些廠商當他們用公平招募的做法來招募移工以後他們跟我們說移工的失聯率是大幅降低的"},{"start":342.961,"end":369.806,"text":"那既然都知道是這個狀況那我們是不是未來會有更多的這個家事移工我們現在不是那個12歲以下就可以聘這個外籍看護那像這樣子的話是不是針對未來進來的這種移工的部分第一個我覺得這個仲介費我覺得是一個非常大的每一次他們在講就是說他的第一年"},{"start":370.546,"end":397.801,"text":"就是來臺灣的第一年的工作的薪資幾乎就付了他母國的那個那個仲介費那還不算每個月的這個服務費一千多塊的這個服務費所以我覺得就是說為什麼這麼多委員一直非常在意就是說就是國對國的這個職聘是不是可以慢慢來推動就是當然這個部長講了有很多的問題目前需要去克服"},{"start":399.482,"end":425.332,"text":"總是要跨出第一步跨出第一步那是不是可以從未來我們現在這個開放的部分你就可以先試就可以先試著去做了對跟跟跟我們說明第一個其實這也是為什麼我們認為其實但就像剛才幾位委員講到公平招募的制度在國際上面推動看起來他會對雇主的的這個他要負的雇主負擔的這部分可能會增加一些是"},{"start":425.672,"end":444.674,"text":"可是如果綜合的來看的時候他可能可以讓移工的這個相關的人士也相對更穩定試驗率會降低這部分其實對雇主也是有幫助的是所以我們也在跟雇主很多的雇主在討論這個同樣的概念那往前推進好所以今天在這個做法上面但"},{"start":445.795,"end":463.585,"text":"從後端他如果失聯發生了以後在移民署這邊他去做各種的查處這部分還是必須做而且不能夠鬆掉但我們也開始要思考更多是在源頭的部分那源頭部分比方我再舉個例子跟委員說比方說其實像農業移工的失聯率一直是居高不下的"},{"start":464.145,"end":491.695,"text":"所以我們近期也不斷的在跟農業部討論希望農業部跟他相關的這些事業單位應該要來研議一個在源頭管理上面改善失聯的狀況所以我們也因為目前在這狀況所以幾個月跟農業部討論下來這一次在農業移工的這個名額的放寬上面農業部來跟我們提所以我們第一次跟他設定了你要降低失聯率作為放寬名額的門檻的做法"},{"start":492.935,"end":521.762,"text":"所以經過幾個月的討論以後農業部這一次也願意以降低失聯率從原本現在接近可能9點多%分階段來降低失聯率來可以獲取更多的名額那我覺得這對於我們要提供給農業確實農業有缺工的狀況所以我們一方面提供名額給農業單位可是另外一方面也要他在這個管理上移工的管理上面要拿出更有效的做法所以這幾件事情相互相承這也是我們希望要從源頭來降低失聯率相關的做法"},{"start":522.923,"end":537.28,"text":"我們希望就是說這個外籍移工的這個問題每一個會期我相信每個會期召委就是每個召委都會排有關移工的這個問題我們希望就是說每個會期談的應該都要有一些進度是 當然"},{"start":537.921,"end":550.54,"text":"另外就是說我們看到這個美國對於在去年的時候就是有針對我們台灣的那個自行車的製造業可能有做一些針對就是說我們台灣的這個"},{"start":553.784,"end":579.123,"text":"這個自行車的製造業巨大集團那有被認為就是說雇用的這個移工的工作待遇構成強迫勞動那發布說史上首次對台灣本土的這個戰扣令那這個戰扣令短短三週內巨大還有美利達這兩個自行車龍頭他們都回應然後並實施新的政策所有的新聘移工的仲介費服務費還有相關的規費都有公司全額負擔那我"},{"start":581.565,"end":598.052,"text":"我想請問的就是說部長這個這個狀況變成說由國外由國外這樣子對我們國內的這個自行車業者這樣子的一個戰扣令之後然後短短三週內就就就把這個"},{"start":599.452,"end":628.446,"text":"感覺好像我們原本一直在推動的這個政策還不如人家這樣子的一個戰口令喔所以我想請教這個部長就是說未來像類似這樣子的一個大廠當然他有辦法去負擔這個我們移工的這個仲介費或服務費或相關的規費那一般的中小企業其實這個大廠底下可能還有一些協力廠商那這些協力廠商未來也需要也需要去做這樣的一個"},{"start":629.507,"end":654.048,"text":"去針對這個服務費或者是仲介費去做負擔那我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分中小企業他可能本來他聘僱的他的資金沒有那麼大所以要再去付這樣的一個仲介費確實會有很大的一個負擔所以我想請教部長就是說未來這樣的一個狀況我們勞動部怎麼去協助這些中小企業來解決這樣的一個問題"},{"start":655.189,"end":678.677,"text":"跟委員說明其實目前國際上面我們可以看得到其實在推動公平招募或者是防止強迫勞動這部分我們可以看到有幾個路徑一個路徑大概就像剛剛講到這個美國政府他是用一個海關CPP的做法來去做要求那的確沒有錯比方歐盟可能在2027年的12月他的FLR就是這個"},{"start":681.269,"end":697.977,"text":"強迫勞動相關的這個商品的管制其實也會他都是用一個區域的公權力量來處理所以我們當然在我們公權上也要有角色但同時有另外一個路徑其實是關於國際上面的供應鏈的一些商業集合的做法所以我們接下來我們也希望"},{"start":699.237,"end":715.653,"text":"我們也要跟這些國際供應鏈的商業機制的集合我們也應該要跟他們做一些合作所以讓商業機制從國際供應鏈的角度可以切入那勞工部我們也必須從一個公權力或法規的角度來去切入包括在這裡面的輔導"},{"start":716.934,"end":745.08,"text":"包括剛剛就像委員會剛剛淑芬我們在談到的職聘的這個問題因為的確會有一些這個企業他們現在看到的這個問題的中心他們希望政府多幫他們政府多提供一些服務不一定一定都非得去找人力仲介但人力仲介還會存在可是我自己也認為政府提供的服務要成為另外一個具可進性的選項這也是為什麼我們現在必須要把服務的量能提高必須讓流程給簡化"},{"start":746.4,"end":766.219,"text":"甚至流程簡化以外也要有更多的部分是由政府來提供直接的服務那以至於到剛剛在講這個後面的這個相關制度上面的調整我說這幾件事情其實都必須多管齊下恐怕不容易只用單一的做法那部長你講的那麼多啦總是要有一個進度嘛是"},{"start":767.248,"end":784.286,"text":"對啊 那你們未來要有一些進度不是說在這邊講一講 然後我覺得勞動部你們本身自己部裡面的人力可能也要要做這麼多事情 那你們目前的人力應該可以去負擔這麼多的工作嗎"},{"start":785.647,"end":814.522,"text":"那當然就是說因為再增加的這些工作那我們也希望有一些進度那我希望就部長因為每次委員會在這邊都會提到不是我們今天講一講之後然後可能又隔了幾個月這個問題又提出來問我們希望就是說下一次你講的時候我們確實是做到什麼樣的程度讓企業可以透過我們國對國的這個職聘然後就可以很容易的聘到這個外籍義工我們希望說"},{"start":815.262,"end":832.261,"text":"确实要有一些进度跟我们刚才在讲说从指引的发布到现在辅导机制跟经济部合作的推动到后面我们会来处理仲介评鉴的问题到职聘的部分我们也会在制度上面做出调整那"},{"start":832.501,"end":848.047,"text":"沒有錯這裡面其實對我們組織來說對勞務部組織來說它是一個人力上面會增加的挑戰所以同時我們在這時間其實也正在跟行政院跟人總希望能夠爭取更多的員額能夠協助我們來把我們的行政的量能給擴大"},{"start":849.548,"end":872.839,"text":"所以這裡面會有一些相互的配套目前同步也都在進行我們希望就是說你們要服務的勞工這麼多然後還有外籍移工那外籍移工碰到的問題也非常多希望說能夠在一定的時間內趕快把大家期待的這個部分趕快把它完成好不好謝謝謝謝黃秀芳委員發言接下來請王振旭委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}