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人閒的時候人也沒事好做那這些他聘僱過來的移工可能還要固定的這個底薪還有勞健保這個成本對他們來講其實"},{"start":491.818,"end":516.019,"text":"在那個時段他也沒有收入 負擔這個成本其實非常非常的高那農業部呢 針對這樣的現象用變形工時啊 這個外產移工當作一個解決的方式似乎無法解決這個困境 這個就是目前我們所能夠理解的那怎麼辦才好 所以這邊有一個是不是可以從房賭失聯來轉向韌性調"},{"start":518.03,"end":542.476,"text":"的這個可行性來跟兩位討論一下我們不能夠建議就是政府或者是類機構來擔任聘僱的主體作為一個人力調度的中心就是麻煩將來可以討論看看那這個是好像這個類人力的這個派遣的角色由這個中心來負責移工的勞健保住宿還有這個行政的管理"},{"start":543.516,"end":570.327,"text":"然後再根據各地的農盲的時程比如說這個採收季節可以跨縣市的資源來做靈活的調派這樣不僅能夠減輕農民的壓力也能夠確保漁工有穩定的工作跟醫療的保障以制度的彈性來降低這個失聯的誘因所以這個政府如果能夠這樣這個調度比地下的仲介更靈活更有合法更尊嚴的時候相信這個失聯率自然就會下降"},{"start":571.467,"end":599.469,"text":"這部分的想法不知道有沒有機會請一個月裡面來把這個由政府來執聘派遣體系的可行性進行初步的評估請教一下我們這個農業部 黃社長 各位委員報告 針對這個季節性問題的部分我們農業部在去年開始我們已經有示範在屏東地區有一個跨區外展調度的一個方式那就是大概以"},{"start":599.949,"end":627.097,"text":"以採收季節的這個部分為主體那他在不同季節的採收季來做移動那像現在是四月份的話開始就是芒果的一個採收在仿山仿寮地區那就是做這些移工我們現在就是已經調度到我們仿山仿寮地區去做芒果的一個採收的工作那到了大概六月結束之後我們就會再到了一個香蕉的一個採收的這樣子的一個"},{"start":629.758,"end":635.54,"text":"調度所以這部分我們去年在屏東部分已經有做這樣子的一個事辦計畫就是說我們除了一般的外展機構像農會合作社他們目前用外展制度來做自行的調度之外我們目前也在做這個事辦計畫那今年我們預計也要再擴展到台南還有像高雄這些台中這些區域"},{"start":652.065,"end":667.644,"text":"我們希望讓人力的調度可以更加的一個彈性那這個部分是目前是以農會這邊來做就是依目前現在的一個雇主資格的部分由農會這邊來擔任雇主那就是像剛剛委員提到像包含勞健保部分都是由農會這邊來做"},{"start":670.367,"end":686.627,"text":"就是他是雇主所以就是有農會這邊來負責相關的行政作業然後再依據農民的需求登記然後來調度這樣子那我們在這個部分我們也給予一些行政資源的支持對那就是我們目前在做這個跨區外展的一個調度人力運用的方式"},{"start":687.228,"end":699.434,"text":"好 謝謝黃課長的說明所以聽起來聘僱主體就是農會是或者是未來如果其他的單位需求的話也可以成立類似的這個聘僱的這個實體來做執行聽起來是這樣的意思"},{"start":704.136,"end":716.933,"text":"是跟我們報告這個部分我們因為現在是示範期間我們先就是投比較小規模的希望可以建立這樣子的先把這個模式建立起來然後我們再來擴大到其他的那個縣市跟單位來辦理"},{"start":717.622,"end":746.133,"text":"好那不過相關的進度也是還是可以給我們一個報告讓我們來做參考好那謝謝黃科長那黃科長請回座那這部分我相信應該洪部長也非常認同這樣的做法我們期待這樣的做法可以讓我們在這個對於農業的缺工造成實質上的幫助因為在院會的時候在立法院院會或行政院會的時候"},{"start":747.642,"end":773.283,"text":"那個陳俊基部長就坐右邊了所以我其實常常就是在跟他討論這個問題大家兩部要怎麼一起合作來來克服所以也很謝謝農業部這次願意在這次移工的政惡申請裡面然後願意承諾是以試驗率作為一個前提條件的引進這部分也謝謝農業部在這有跨出這樣子一步好謝謝其外兩部會可以繼續來努力"},{"start":773.988,"end":781.631,"text":"那針對於這個精進勞工結社權的部分簡單的就針對於我國在2026年而以已經跟美方達成的台美"},{"start":782.39,"end":806.591,"text":"對等貿易協定 ART 的簽署 後續需要做相關的審議根據這個文本 我國應該在生肖日期五年裡面針對勞工結社權的下列四項進行法規的調適包括降低中小企業勞工籌組工會門檻還有確保全國性的聯合工會組織沒有最低代表性的門檻要求"},{"start":807.211,"end":822.326,"text":"還有建立選擇或解散工會的適當機制以及罷工等集體行動的適當投票門檻我們也知道降低工會籌組的門檻會涉及到工會的同意權、會務價、複數工會競爭等配套需要討論事關重大"},{"start":826.65,"end":848.966,"text":"社會的溝通就刻不容返所以請部長可以承諾兩點第一點就是協定通過以後勞動部應該儘速啟動修法制社會溝通工程第二點就是協定通過以後請勞動部於三個月內向本委員會就如何安排社會溝通的這個期程規劃與目標提出書面報告這部分"},{"start":849.988,"end":857.167,"text":"跟文說明其實這個部分就針對傑瑟全在這次台美的ART裡面的承諾當然是五年的時間"},{"start":858.584,"end":885.785,"text":"那我們目前我們會盡快的來進行因為這個法規上面其實各種的評估跟研究的工作因為這裡面會牽涉到不只是解釋權的門檻包括有這個工會相關的一些權利那怎麼樣去做評估跟設計所以前面會先有一段是法規的研究委託的部分我們會先進行到後面當然還會有包括利害關係團體"},{"start":887.887,"end":906.903,"text":"包括勞方包括資方把大家的意見來去做各種彙整跟收集所以的確會需要一些時間但有些部分也許假設比較快的部分我們可以儘快一點來進行可是這的確會涉及到這其實是一個蠻大的制度上面的調整法規的調整所以它會有一個過程"},{"start":908.055,"end":925.737,"text":"所以至少我們希望能夠三個月裡面就開始啟動這個啟程的規劃跟目標這部分就請部長能夠給我們這方面的數目報告那最後一個就是有關於準所受雇醫師加保的權益那這部分麻煩那個勞保局的白局長"},{"start":926.698,"end":949.129,"text":"一起來討論就是診所受雇醫師的加保權益事實上部長在當委員的時候也十分的關注這個議題這些醫師作為勞保孤兒這個部分的狀態好像一直沒有辦法得到解決一個就是在固定診所當其他的醫事人員都有投保也成立了投保單位的時候"},{"start":950.119,"end":965.072,"text":"卻選擇性沒有幫這個在這個診所的醫師加保雖然已經勞動部有函示要加保可是卻苦於沒有強力沒有強制力解能輔導所以讓這個醫師的加保造成了困境"},{"start":965.592,"end":991.303,"text":"第二個就是說如果這個醫事在多診所受雇的話就算想要加保職業公會也會被勞保局拒絕無法投保職業公會所以在相關政策討論一議之前那是不是可以請我們的勞動部勞保局會同衛福部能夠整理勾結出這兩種大概的統計數字讓我們在進一步做研討的時候能夠做有效的掌握來進行政策的推薦"},{"start":992.419,"end":1020.395,"text":"這部分部長或者是局長有一個意見 跟委員這邊做報告那因為本以契約自由的原則 但診所跟醫師之間的勞務關係不一定一定是雇佣 不過如果委員這邊有提到固定診所跟多診所受雇他們的一個加保情況 我們依委員這邊的一個建議 我們跟衛福部這邊來研議 在符合各執法的前提下 因為醫師的名冊由衛福部提供給勞動部這邊 那如果這個資料我們可以拿到 我們來做資料的勾結 提供給委員這邊做參考"},{"start":1021.73,"end":1027.744,"text":"好 那就麻煩部長 麻煩局長好 謝謝主席好 謝謝王振興委員發言委員會預告"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:18:57.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:18:57.878000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:18:58.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:16.132000+08:00","text":"今天想要針對幾個題目，包括改善強迫勞動相關進度、引進農業移工精進作為、精進勞工的結社權以及診所受僱醫師加保權益，幾個題目要來跟洪部長討論。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:16.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:16.393000+08:00","text":"有請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:16.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:16.593000+08:00","text":"有請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:16.593000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:22.209500+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:22.209500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:27.826000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:27.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:42.241000+08:00","text":"今天很多委員已經根據召委所排的主題，做了很多的討論，不過還是有滿多問題需要持續來討論跟解決，包括第一個，改善強迫勞動相關的進度。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:47.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:19:57.229000+08:00","text":"部長，我們首先要討論的是，臺灣有85萬的外籍移工長期陷入強迫勞動處境這樣的困境裡面，今天已經討論了很多。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:19:59.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:20:09.134000+08:00","text":"BBC近期使用「像鬼一樣工作」這樣的主題，我們看到後會覺得很不舒服的主題，以這種主題來形容臺灣移工的遭遇。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:20:10.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:20:22.904000+08:00","text":"這個報導裡面也揭露了印尼移工來臺工作，第二年就發生工安的問題，導致他的腳踝嚴重骨折，可是還是因為負債累累而不敢停工。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:20:23.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:20:33.459000+08:00","text":"另外，有移工來臺之前就支付超過21萬元的仲介費，沒有任何書面合約，每個月還要應付貸款、催繳單等等。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:20:34.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:20:41.485000+08:00","text":"這裡面寫的是說他常常想要逃跑，可是沒有地方可以跑。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:20:44.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:20:53.975000+08:00","text":"針對這麼多的個案與困境，應該是臺灣移工聘僱制度長年累積下來的系統性問題，我想這部分部長應該也會同意。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:20:55.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:21:17.796000+08:00","text":"臺灣國際勞工協會也指出，目前多數的勞工、移工面臨了這些被高額債務綁架的半自願的強迫勞動，包括超時的加班，還有文件受到扣留、薪資被剋扣，還有職場霸凌等等，這個幾乎每天都會發生，我想部長應該也體會得到。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:21:20.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:21:35.586000+08:00","text":"去年10月，巨大機械更因為涉及強迫移工勞動，遭到美國發出暫扣令的制裁，好像也還沒有解決，以致臺灣的人權問題直接衝擊到我們國際供應鏈的信譽。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:21:35.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:21:47.290000+08:00","text":"所以我這邊有三個問題想要請部長直接來面對跟回答：第一個，有關移工零付費政策的推動進度如何？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:21:48.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:21:50.431000+08:00","text":"預計什麼時候能夠全面來落實？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:21:50.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:21:53.552000+08:00","text":"第二個，直聘率如何能夠有效提升？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:21:53.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:21:59.717000+08:00","text":"剛剛說只有百分之二點多，有沒有相關的進度？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:22:00.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:22:04.902000+08:00","text":"是否能夠針對自由轉換雇主來開放進行研擬？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:22:04.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:22:13.631000+08:00","text":"還有政府計畫三年裡面要修法，改善移工聘僱的制度，請問修法草案什麼時候可以送到立法院做後續處理？部長。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:22:18.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:22:41.213000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，第一個，關於移工公平招募的制度，現在我們在處理的做法裡面，第一步在2月的時候，我們其實已經公布了指引，現在跟經濟部合作的輔導機制跟宣導，目前也正在上路，我們大概規劃二十幾場的宣導說明會，這部分會跟經濟部一起合作。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:22:44.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:22:57.272000+08:00","text":"剛才講到可能會有三年的法規調適期，這的確是因為……就像剛才前面幾位委員談到，因為臺灣的中小企業滿多的，而且比例很高，所以相對於大廠，可能會需要給他們一點調適的時間。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:22:59.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:23:10.418000+08:00","text":"但在這中間並不會什麼都不做，包括仲介的評鑑必須優化，把公平招募的概念放到仲介的評鑑裡面，這是一個部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:23:12.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:23:24.531000+08:00","text":"也包括剛才講到的直聘，直聘的做法，其實在制度上面確實有很多需要簡化的部分，現在法規的檢討也在研議。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:23:24.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:23:36.920000+08:00","text":"剛剛我其實有說三個月內我們會把直聘簡化跟優化的做法提報到衛環委員會，來給委員們做這部分的參閱。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:23:36.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:23:42.443000+08:00","text":"所以它不會是一個做法，它會是一組做法，才有辦法往前推進。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:23:42.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:24:04.714000+08:00","text":"尤其臺灣移工聘僱的模式，其實是累積了三、四十年的模式，所以的確在這三、四年裡面累積出一個結構，我們現在看到這個結構在做法上面的確一定是需要改善跟調整，這在方向上是非常明確的，但在節奏跟政策工具上面要組合性地一起來應用。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:24:05.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:24:12.858000+08:00","text":"是，我們瞭解，畢竟冰凍三尺，非一日之寒，可是要如何解凍，當然希望它能夠順利。是。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:24:13.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:24:24.303000+08:00","text":"這個部分麻煩部長繼續處理、繼續精進，相信所有委員都很關心進度如何，這部分就麻煩部長繼續勞心勞力了。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:24:24.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:24:26.904000+08:00","text":"部長請留步，我接下來的問題是針對引進農業移工的精進作為，麻煩農業部農民輔導司的黃科長一起來討論。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T11:24:26.904000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T11:24:27.904000+08:00","text":"請黃科長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:24:27.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:24:27.865000+08:00","text":"兩個部會都很辛苦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:24:43.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:25:04.026000+08:00","text":"我們知道行政團隊為了緩解農業的缺工，對於農業高失聯移工的部分非常非常地努力，也提出了分階段增額的方案讓農業的工作能量可以持續地符合農民的需求。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:25:04.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:25:08.609000+08:00","text":"有一個現象想跟兩位官員交流。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:25:10.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:25:18.516000+08:00","text":"根據最新的調查報導，發現官方的統計缺工率雖然只有5%，事實上應該不止，差不多有三成以上。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:25:20.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:25:34.629000+08:00","text":"農業在農忙的時期真的很需要人力，以共同度過農忙時期的需求，所以代表目前的統計似乎沒有辦法完整地勾勒出農村真實的需求。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:25:36.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:25:41.935000+08:00","text":"我的長輩現在還住在農村，他們常常會面臨這樣的困難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:25:42.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:25:54.250000+08:00","text":"合法的人力供給跟現場需求有落差的時候，目前全臺灣有9.5萬個失聯移工就可能會填補這個真空。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:25:55.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:26:08.842000+08:00","text":"目前有蠻多報導針對這個問題，也瞭解這個地方好像形成了自成體系的地下產業鏈或者是產銷鏈，這是目前讓我們很擔心的部分。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:26:09.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:26:22.271000+08:00","text":"這不僅涉及到勞動管理，更關乎到我們長久以來關心的農業長期發展，所以我們應該思考要如何精進，讓這些勞動力回歸到合法的管理體系裡面。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:26:24.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:26:39.647000+08:00","text":"我剛剛提到我小時候就是在農村長大的，農業生產其實有高度的季節性，所以我們可以理解，現在制度下的合法移工為什麼對農民來講真的是不好用，又用不起。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:26:40.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:26:51.272000+08:00","text":"在農忙的時候，他可能就是需要天天去採收，因而會超時，也容易觸及勞基法規定加班費的上限。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:26:53.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:27:08.883000+08:00","text":"農閒的時候，他又閒閒沒事做，但這些聘僱過來的移工可能還要給固定的底薪，還有勞健保的這個成本，對他們來講其實在那個時段他也沒有收入，要負擔的成本其實非常、非常地高。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:27:10.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:27:23.035000+08:00","text":"農業部針對這樣的現象，用變形工時、外展移工當作解決的方式，似乎無法解決這個困境，這就是目前我們所能夠理解的狀況，但要怎麼辦才好？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:27:25.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:27:32.851000+08:00","text":"這邊是不是可以從防堵失聯轉向韌性調度的這個可行性來跟兩位討論一下？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:27:33.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:27:41.393000+08:00","text":"我們能不能建議政府或者是類機構擔任聘僱的主體，作為人力調度的中心？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:27:43.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:27:45.154000+08:00","text":"麻煩將來可以討論看看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:27:45.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:28:11.422000+08:00","text":"這就好像類人力派遣的角色，由這個中心來負責移工的勞健保、住宿還有行政的管理，再根據各地農忙的時程，比如在採收季節可以跨縣市地支援做靈活的調派，這不僅能夠減輕農民的壓力，也能夠確保移工有穩定的工作跟醫療的保障，以制度的彈性來降低失聯的誘因。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:28:12.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:28:22.307000+08:00","text":"政府如果能夠將這個調度做得比地下的仲介更靈活、更合法、更尊嚴的話，相信失聯率自然就會下降。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:28:23.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:28:35.657000+08:00","text":"針對這部分的想法不知道有沒有機會請你們在一個月裡面提出政府直聘派遣體系的可行性進行初步的評估？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:28:36.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:28:38.479000+08:00","text":"請教一下農業部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:28:39.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:28:59.011000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，針對季節性問題的部分，農業部從去年開始就已經在屏東地區試辦採跨區外展調度的方式，大概是以採收季節為主體，讓他在不同的採收季移動。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:28:59.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:29:13.476000+08:00","text":"像在枋山、枋寮地區從4月開始就進入芒果的採收季，這些移工現在就已經調度到枋山、枋寮地區去做芒果採收的工作。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:29:14.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:29:18.397000+08:00","text":"大概等6月結束之後，就到了要調度去做香蕉的採收。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:29:22.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:29:26.640000+08:00","text":"去年我們在屏東已經有做這樣的試辦計畫，除了一般的外展機構，像農會、合作社，他們目前用外展制度自行調度之外，我們目前也在做這個試辦計畫。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:29:26.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:29:46.828000+08:00","text":"今年我們預計會再擴展到臺南，還有像高雄、臺中這些區域，我們希望讓人力的調度可以更加彈性。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:29:47.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:29:55.158000+08:00","text":"這部分目前是由農會這邊在做，即雇主部分由農會來擔任雇主。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:29:56.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:09.356000+08:00","text":"誠如剛剛委員提到的，包含勞健保的部分都是由農會這邊來做，因為它是雇主，所以就由農會來負責相關的行政作業，然後再依據農民的需求登記做調度。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:10.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:18.607000+08:00","text":"我們在這個部分也會給予一些行政資源的支持，這就是我們目前在做跨區外展調度人力運用的方式。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:20.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:20.809000+08:00","text":"謝謝黃科長的說明。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:22.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:23.470000+08:00","text":"聽起來聘僱主體就是農會？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:25.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:31.234000+08:00","text":"未來如果其他單位有需求的話，也可以成立類似聘僱的實體來執行嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:31.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:31.414000+08:00","text":"聽起來是這樣的意思。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃科長淑蕙","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:36.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:48.913000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為現在是試辦期間，我們是先投比較小規模的，希望可以先把這個模式建立起來，然後再擴大到其他的縣市跟單位辦理。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:49.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:56.004000+08:00","text":"好，相關的進度是不是也可以給我們一個報告，讓我們做參考？好。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:30:57.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:30:58.705000+08:00","text":"謝謝黃科長，黃科長請回座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:31:01.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:31:13.531000+08:00","text":"相信洪部長應該也會非常認同這樣的做法，我們期待這樣的做法可以對於農業的缺工起實質上的幫助。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:31:16.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:31:28.849000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，在立法院院會或行政院院會的時候，陳駿季部長就坐我右邊，我其實常常跟他討論這個問題，看兩部會要怎麼一起合作來克服。","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:31:29.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:31:41.239000+08:00","text":"所以也很謝謝農業部在這次移工的增額申請裡面，願意承諾以失聯率作為引進的一個前提條件，這部分也謝謝農業部跨出這樣的一步。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:31:42.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:31:45.263000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，期待兩部會可以持續努力。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:31:46.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:32:00.255000+08:00","text":"針對精進勞工結社權的部分，簡單來說，我國在2026年2月已經跟美方達成臺美對等貿易協定ART的簽署，後續需要做相關的審議。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:32:00.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:32:27.039000+08:00","text":"根據文本，我國應該在生效日期起5年裡面針對勞工結社權的下列四項進行法規的調適：包括降低中小企業勞工籌組工會的門檻，還有確保全國性聯合工會的組織沒有最低代表性的門檻要求，還有建立選擇或解散工會的適當機制，以及罷工等集體行動的適當投票門檻。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:32:27.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:32:39.911000+08:00","text":"我們也知道降低籌組工會的門檻會涉及到工會的同意權、會務假、複數工會競爭等配套需要討論，事關重大，所以社會的溝通就刻不容緩。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:32:41.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:33:02.710000+08:00","text":"請部長可以承諾兩點：第一點就是協定通過以後，勞動部應該儘速啟動修法之社會溝通工程；第二點就是協定通過以後，請勞動部於3個月內向本委員會就如何安排社會溝通的期程規劃與目標提出書面報告，這部分請部長說明。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:33:04.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:33:28.718000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，針對結社權這部分，在這次臺美ART裡面的承諾是5年的時間，目前我們會儘快地進行法規上面各種的評估跟研究的工作，因為這裡面不只是牽涉到結社權的門檻，還包括工會相關的一些權利，對此要怎麼做評估跟設計。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:33:28.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:33:47.133000+08:00","text":"所以前面會先有一段法規的委託研究，我們會先進行，後面當然還包括了利害關係團體，包括勞方，包括資方，將大家的意見做各種彙整跟收集，所以的確會需要一些時間。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:33:47.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:33:58.883000+08:00","text":"但對於比較快的部分，我們可以進行得快一點，可是這的確在制度上、法規上涉及到滿大的調整，所以會有一個過程。","quality":0.723},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:00.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:34:09.407000+08:00","text":"所以我們希望至少能夠三個月內就開始啟動這個期程的規劃與目標，這個部分就請部長能夠給我們這方面的書面報告。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:09.407000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T11:34:10.668000+08:00","text":"是，可以。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:10.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:34:19.799000+08:00","text":"最後一個就是有關於診所受僱醫師的加保權益，這個部分我們麻煩勞保局的白局長一起來討論。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:20.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:34:34.806000+08:00","text":"關於診所受僱醫師的加保權益，事實上，部長在當委員的時候，也十分關注這個議題，可是這些醫師作為勞保孤兒的狀態好像一直沒有辦法得到解決。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:34.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:34:46.583000+08:00","text":"一個是在固定診所，當其他醫事人員都有投保，也成立了投保單位，卻選擇性沒有幫這些醫師加保。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:47.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:34:57.052000+08:00","text":"雖然勞動部已經有函釋要加保，卻苦於沒有強制力，僅能輔導，造成這些醫師加保的困境。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:34:57.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:35:06.116000+08:00","text":"第二個是如果醫師在多個診所受僱的話，就算想要加保職業工會，也會被勞保局拒絕，無法投保職業工會。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:35:06.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:35:23.283000+08:00","text":"在討論相關政策疑義之前，是不是可以請勞動部勞保局會同衛福部，整理勾稽出這兩種大概的統計數字，讓我們在研討的時候，能夠有數據掌握並進行政策的推進？","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:35:24.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:35:27.941000+08:00","text":"這個部分，部長或者是局長的意見？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"白局長麗真","start":"2026-04-09T11:35:27.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:35:52.375000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，本於契約自由的原則，由於診所與醫師之間的勞務關係不一定是僱傭，既然委員提到他們有受僱於固定診所和多診所的加保情況，我們會依委員的建議，在符合個資法的前提下跟衛福部研議，因為醫師名冊是由衛福部提供給勞動部的，如果這個資料我們可以拿到，我們來做資料的勾稽，再提供給委員做參考。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"王委員正旭","start":"2026-04-09T11:35:53.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:35:57.038000+08:00","text":"好，就麻煩部長，也麻煩局長，謝謝主席。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T11:35:59.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T11:35:59.664000+08:00","text":"謝謝王正旭委員發言。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T11:36:00.164000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T11:36:10.164000+08:00","text":"因為待會中午要協商衛福部等相關組織法，所以12點半休息用餐，到下午2點才繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T11:36:10.464000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T11:36:13.606857+08:00","text":"接下來請盧縣一召委發言。","quality":0.091}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}