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{"start":4.997,"end":24.593,"text":"好謝謝主席今天想要針對幾個題目來包括改善強迫勞動相關進度還有引進農業移工精進作為還有精進勞工的結社權以及診所受雇醫師加保權益幾個題目要來跟洪部長討論有請洪部長有請洪部長"},{"start":35.826,"end":50.261,"text":"今天很多委員已經根據我們在所談的主題做了很多的討論不過還是有蠻多問題需要持續來討論跟解決包括第一個就是改善強迫勞動相關的進度"},{"start":55.165,"end":77.154,"text":"部長我們首先要討論就是台灣有85萬的這個外籍移工長期陷入了強迫勞動處境的這樣的困境裡面今天已經討論了很多那LGC近期裡面用像鬼一樣工作這樣的主題我們看到就覺得很不舒服的這種主題來形容台灣移工的遭遇"},{"start":78.815,"end":95.907,"text":"這個報導裡面也揭露有印尼移工來台工作第二年就發生了公安的問題導致他的腳踝嚴重骨折可是還是因為要受困於這個負債累累不敢停工另外也有移工來台之前就支付超過21萬元的仲介費"},{"start":97.236,"end":123.837,"text":"沒有任何書面的合約每個月還要應付貸款催繳單等等他裡面寫的是說他想想常常想要逃跑可是沒有地方可以跑這是目前這麼多個案的困境應該是我們臺灣這個移工聘僱制度長年累積下來系統性的問題我想這部分部長應該也會同意那臺灣這個國際勞工協會也指出目前這個多數的勞工"},{"start":127.421,"end":155.864,"text":"移工面臨的這些被高額的債務綁架的半自願的強迫勞動包括有超時的加班還有文件收到扣留薪資被扣扣還有職場霸凌等等這個幾乎每天我想部長也應該體會得到幾乎每天都會發生那去年10月巨大機械軍的射擊強迫移工勞動遭到美國發出戰後令的制裁"},{"start":156.564,"end":181.692,"text":"好像也還沒有解決所以台灣的人權問題直接就衝擊到我們這個國際供應鏈的信譽所以這邊就有三個問題想要請部長直接來面對跟回答一個就是我們的這個移工零付費的政策的推動進度如何預計什麼時候能夠全面來落實那第二個就是那職聘率如何能夠有效的提升剛剛說的"},{"start":183.472,"end":201.631,"text":"只有2.6%那有沒有一個相關的進度是否能夠針對自由轉換僱主來開放進行研擬還有政府計畫三年裡面要修法改善移工聘僱的制度那請問修法草案什麼時候可以送到立法院來做後續議長"},{"start":206.864,"end":229.233,"text":"跟委員說明第一個其實關於這個移工公平招募的制度其實現在我們在處理的做法裡面第一步在2月的時候我們其實已經公佈了指引那現在跟經濟部合作的輔導機制跟宣導目前也正在上路我們大概規劃了20幾場的這個宣導的說明這部分會跟經濟部一起合作"},{"start":230.313,"end":245.272,"text":"那後面剛才講到可能會有三年的這個法規的調試期那這的確是因為就像剛才前面幾位委員談到因為台灣的中小企業其實蠻多的而且這邊比例很高所以他們相對於大廠可能會需要給他們一點調試的時間"},{"start":247.765,"end":264.245,"text":"但在這中間並不會什麼都不做所以也包括這個仲介的評鑑必須優化把公平招募的概念把它放到仲介的評鑑裡面這是一個部分然後也包括剛才在講到的職聘那職聘的做法"},{"start":265.745,"end":279.317,"text":"其實在制度上面確實有很多需要簡化的部分現在法規的檢討也在研議那剛剛我其實有說三個月內我們會把職聘的簡化跟優化的做法那來提報到這個"},{"start":281.218,"end":304.371,"text":"未還委員會來給我們來做這部分的參閱所以它不會是一個做法它會是一組的做法才有辦法往前推進那因為尤其是其實台灣移工聘僱的這個模式其實已經是累積了三四十年的模式所以它的確在這三四十年裡面也累積出一個結構這結構的確我們現在看到在做法上面是一定需要"},{"start":305.051,"end":330.302,"text":"改善跟調整這是非常明確的方向上是明確的但在節奏跟政策工具上面要組合性的一起來應用是我們了解這個冰凍三時嘛非一日之寒可是如何能夠解凍當然是希望它能夠順利這個部分麻煩部長繼續來處理也繼續來精進那當然我相信所有委員都會很關心這個進度是如何"},{"start":331.122,"end":335.885,"text":"這部分就麻煩部長繼續來勞心勞力那部長請留步現在過來的這個問題是要針對引進這個農業移工的精進作為可以麻煩這個農業部農民輔導師的黃科長一起來討論其實兩個部會都很辛苦"},{"start":351.636,"end":372.046,"text":"我們知道這個行政團隊為了要緩解這個農業的缺工還有農業高度的這個室內移工的部分非常非常的努力那也提出了這個分階段增額的方案來讓我們這個農業的這個工作能量可以持續的來符合農民的需求"},{"start":372.786,"end":395.803,"text":"有一個現象想要跟兩位官員來交流就是我們根據最新的調查報導發現雖然官方的統計缺工率只有5%事實上應該不止差不多30%以上就是我們這個農業在農忙的時期真的是很需要共同來度過這個農忙時期的這個人力的需求"},{"start":396.483,"end":413.579,"text":"所以這代表我們目前的這個統計似乎沒有辦法能夠完整的勾勒出這個農村的真實需求因為我本身我的這個長輩現在還是住在農村他們常常會面臨這樣的困難那這個合法的人力供給跟現場需求有落差的時候"},{"start":414.444,"end":430.137,"text":"當然這個就會出現我們目前全台灣有9.5萬個失聯移工可能就會添補這個政空那目前有蠻多的報導針對這個問題也瞭解說這個地方好像形成了製程體系的地下產業鏈"},{"start":431.738,"end":454.854,"text":"或者是產銷鏈這樣的一個目前讓我們很擔心的部分那這個不僅是涉及到勞動管理更關乎我們長期關心這個農業長期的發展所以我們應該來思考或者是如何來精進讓這些勞動力能夠回歸到合法的管理體系裡面那我剛提到我小時候就是從農村長大"},{"start":456.255,"end":474.333,"text":"那這個農業生產其實有它的高度的季節性所以我們可以理解說為什麼我們現在制度之下的合法移工真的對農民來講真的是不好用又用不起在農忙的時候它可能就是需要天天的去採收就會超時"},{"start":475.31,"end":490.237,"text":"所以容易觸及這個勞基法規定的加班費的上限人忙的 人閒的時候人也沒事好做那這些他聘僱過來的移工可能還要固定的這個底薪還有勞健保這個成本對他們來講其實"},{"start":491.818,"end":516.019,"text":"在那個時段他也沒有收入 負擔這個成本其實非常非常的高那農業部呢 針對這樣的現象用變形工時啊 這個外產移工當作一個解決的方式似乎無法解決這個困境 這個就是目前我們所能夠理解的那怎麼辦才好 所以這邊有一個是不是可以從房賭失聯來轉向韌性調"},{"start":518.03,"end":542.476,"text":"的這個可行性來跟兩位討論一下我們不能夠建議就是政府或者是類機構來擔任聘僱的主體作為一個人力調度的中心就是麻煩將來可以討論看看那這個是好像這個類人力的這個派遣的角色由這個中心來負責移工的勞健保住宿還有這個行政的管理"},{"start":543.516,"end":570.327,"text":"然後再根據各地的農盲的時程比如說這個採收季節可以跨縣市的資源來做靈活的調派這樣不僅能夠減輕農民的壓力也能夠確保漁工有穩定的工作跟醫療的保障以制度的彈性來降低這個失聯的誘因所以這個政府如果能夠這樣這個調度比地下的仲介更靈活更有合法更尊嚴的時候相信這個失聯率自然就會下降"},{"start":571.467,"end":599.469,"text":"這部分的想法不知道有沒有機會請一個月裡面來把這個由政府來執聘派遣體系的可行性進行初步的評估請教一下我們這個農業部 黃社長 各位委員報告 針對這個季節性問題的部分我們農業部在去年開始我們已經有示範在屏東地區有一個跨區外展調度的一個方式那就是大概以"},{"start":599.949,"end":627.097,"text":"以採收季節的這個部分為主體那他在不同季節的採收季來做移動那像現在是四月份的話開始就是芒果的一個採收在仿山仿寮地區那就是做這些移工我們現在就是已經調度到我們仿山仿寮地區去做芒果的一個採收的工作那到了大概六月結束之後我們就會再到了一個香蕉的一個採收的這樣子的一個"},{"start":629.758,"end":635.54,"text":"調度所以這部分我們去年在屏東部分已經有做這樣子的一個事辦計畫就是說我們除了一般的外展機構像農會合作社他們目前用外展制度來做自行的調度之外我們目前也在做這個事辦計畫那今年我們預計也要再擴展到台南還有像高雄這些台中這些區域"},{"start":652.065,"end":667.644,"text":"我們希望讓人力的調度可以更加的一個彈性那這個部分是目前是以農會這邊來做就是依目前現在的一個雇主資格的部分由農會這邊來擔任雇主那就是像剛剛委員提到像包含勞健保部分都是由農會這邊來做"},{"start":670.367,"end":686.627,"text":"就是他是雇主所以就是有農會這邊來負責相關的行政作業然後再依據農民的需求登記然後來調度這樣子那我們在這個部分我們也給予一些行政資源的支持對那就是我們目前在做這個跨區外展的一個調度人力運用的方式"},{"start":687.228,"end":699.434,"text":"好 謝謝黃課長的說明所以聽起來聘僱主體就是農會是或者是未來如果其他的單位需求的話也可以成立類似的這個聘僱的這個實體來做執行聽起來是這樣的意思"},{"start":704.136,"end":716.933,"text":"是跟我們報告這個部分我們因為現在是示範期間我們先就是投比較小規模的希望可以建立這樣子的先把這個模式建立起來然後我們再來擴大到其他的那個縣市跟單位來辦理"},{"start":717.622,"end":746.133,"text":"好那不過相關的進度也是還是可以給我們一個報告讓我們來做參考好那謝謝黃科長那黃科長請回座那這部分我相信應該洪部長也非常認同這樣的做法我們期待這樣的做法可以讓我們在這個對於農業的缺工造成實質上的幫助因為在院會的時候在立法院院會或行政院會的時候"},{"start":747.642,"end":773.283,"text":"那個陳俊基部長就坐右邊了所以我其實常常就是在跟他討論這個問題大家兩部要怎麼一起合作來來克服所以也很謝謝農業部這次願意在這次移工的政惡申請裡面然後願意承諾是以試驗率作為一個前提條件的引進這部分也謝謝農業部在這有跨出這樣子一步好謝謝其外兩部會可以繼續來努力"},{"start":773.988,"end":781.631,"text":"那針對於這個精進勞工結社權的部分簡單的就針對於我國在2026年而以已經跟美方達成的台美"},{"start":782.39,"end":806.591,"text":"對等貿易協定 ART 的簽署 後續需要做相關的審議根據這個文本 我國應該在生肖日期五年裡面針對勞工結社權的下列四項進行法規的調適包括降低中小企業勞工籌組工會門檻還有確保全國性的聯合工會組織沒有最低代表性的門檻要求"},{"start":807.211,"end":822.326,"text":"還有建立選擇或解散工會的適當機制以及罷工等集體行動的適當投票門檻我們也知道降低工會籌組的門檻會涉及到工會的同意權、會務價、複數工會競爭等配套需要討論事關重大"},{"start":826.65,"end":848.966,"text":"社會的溝通就刻不容返所以請部長可以承諾兩點第一點就是協定通過以後勞動部應該儘速啟動修法制社會溝通工程第二點就是協定通過以後請勞動部於三個月內向本委員會就如何安排社會溝通的這個期程規劃與目標提出書面報告這部分"},{"start":849.988,"end":857.167,"text":"跟文說明其實這個部分就針對傑瑟全在這次台美的ART裡面的承諾當然是五年的時間"},{"start":858.584,"end":885.785,"text":"那我們目前我們會盡快的來進行因為這個法規上面其實各種的評估跟研究的工作因為這裡面會牽涉到不只是解釋權的門檻包括有這個工會相關的一些權利那怎麼樣去做評估跟設計所以前面會先有一段是法規的研究委託的部分我們會先進行到後面當然還會有包括利害關係團體"},{"start":887.887,"end":906.903,"text":"包括勞方包括資方把大家的意見來去做各種彙整跟收集所以的確會需要一些時間但有些部分也許假設比較快的部分我們可以儘快一點來進行可是這的確會涉及到這其實是一個蠻大的制度上面的調整法規的調整所以它會有一個過程"},{"start":908.055,"end":925.737,"text":"所以至少我們希望能夠三個月裡面就開始啟動這個啟程的規劃跟目標這部分就請部長能夠給我們這方面的數目報告那最後一個就是有關於準所受雇醫師加保的權益那這部分麻煩那個勞保局的白局長"},{"start":926.698,"end":949.129,"text":"一起來討論就是診所受雇醫師的加保權益事實上部長在當委員的時候也十分的關注這個議題這些醫師作為勞保孤兒這個部分的狀態好像一直沒有辦法得到解決一個就是在固定診所當其他的醫事人員都有投保也成立了投保單位的時候"},{"start":950.119,"end":965.072,"text":"卻選擇性沒有幫這個在這個診所的醫師加保雖然已經勞動部有函示要加保可是卻苦於沒有強力沒有強制力解能輔導所以讓這個醫師的加保造成了困境"},{"start":965.592,"end":991.303,"text":"第二個就是說如果這個醫事在多診所受雇的話就算想要加保職業公會也會被勞保局拒絕無法投保職業公會所以在相關政策討論一議之前那是不是可以請我們的勞動部勞保局會同衛福部能夠整理勾結出這兩種大概的統計數字讓我們在進一步做研討的時候能夠做有效的掌握來進行政策的推薦"},{"start":992.419,"end":1020.395,"text":"這部分部長或者是局長有一個意見 跟委員這邊做報告那因為本以契約自由的原則 但診所跟醫師之間的勞務關係不一定一定是雇佣 不過如果委員這邊有提到固定診所跟多診所受雇他們的一個加保情況 我們依委員這邊的一個建議 我們跟衛福部這邊來研議 在符合各執法的前提下 因為醫師的名冊由衛福部提供給勞動部這邊 那如果這個資料我們可以拿到 我們來做資料的勾結 提供給委員這邊做參考"},{"start":1021.73,"end":1027.744,"text":"好 那就麻煩部長 麻煩局長好 謝謝主席好 謝謝王振興委員發言委員會預告"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}