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12:22:03","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部、農業部就「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：台灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.1359687500000004,"end":5.0934687499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.24534375,"end":6.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.82659375,"end":27.824093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.49909375,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.625343750000003,"end":44.445968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.34034375,"end":66.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.80971875,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.23971875000001,"end":68.42534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.96721875,"end":84.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.19909375,"end":86.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.80221875000001,"end":88.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.11409375000001,"end":90.12659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.51471875,"end":97.09596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.40846875000001,"end":97.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.44596875,"end":98.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.63159375000001,"end":98.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.42471875000001,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.97034375000001,"end":135.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.08784375,"end":123.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.03096875,"end":136.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.21221875,"end":148.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.17409375,"end":139.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.53096875,"end":155.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.62721875,"end":153.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.31471875,"end":164.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.93471875,"end":157.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.25846875000002,"end":170.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.89034375,"end":171.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.83534375000002,"end":178.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.78784375,"end":184.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.97284375,"end":187.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.81596875000002,"end":187.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.83284375000002,"end":200.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.70846875,"end":206.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.29409375,"end":211.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.60534375,"end":216.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.25034375,"end":232.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.24346875,"end":238.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.57534375,"end":245.57909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.06846875000002,"end":252.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.09284375000001,"end":266.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.97721875,"end":264.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.20034375,"end":274.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.02596875,"end":280.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.13909375000003,"end":286.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.53034375000004,"end":287.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.03221875,"end":298.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.00534375,"end":307.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.01659375,"end":310.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.27784375000005,"end":310.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.96971875,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.03721875,"end":311.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.30721875,"end":311.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.71221875000003,"end":316.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.06596875,"end":318.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.58034375,"end":319.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.00221875,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.03596875,"end":323.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.25096875,"end":321.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.95534375,"end":326.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.79409375,"end":338.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.45471875000004,"end":339.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.99471875,"end":345.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.88409375000003,"end":346.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.36909375000005,"end":348.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.92159375,"end":350.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.33909375,"end":350.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.74409375000005,"end":350.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.55409375000005,"end":355.46909375},{"speaker"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我們一樣請洪部長有請洪部長邱委員好部長好還是就剛剛我們這個洋藥委員講的就是說我們現在定調2026年是印度移工的這個元年現在已經四月了我想直接問一下這個元年的時間表部長會這個實現嗎還是會跳票"},{"start":30.892,"end":43.899,"text":"第一個其實在印度移工部分我們今年1月其實已經我有指派我們的次長那代相關發展所的同仁其實到印度這邊去做了相關的"},{"start":45.41,"end":65.468,"text":"了解跟相關的訪問那也希望能夠把這裡面可能會涉及到的一些行政事務事務性的部分怎麼跟在印度印方目前的行政體系要去做更進一步的對接那我們目前正在這個相關的推動的程序"},{"start":65.988,"end":83.197,"text":"那你說事辦引進一千人嘛對不對對好然後那我手上有資料是說現在印度這個密索蘭邦一月份有三百多人有意願那預計三月份就完成初審所以現在實際初審的人有多少跟文說明"},{"start":85.436,"end":97.618,"text":"現在在印度特定的一些邦當然他們已經表達他們的意願但是現在後續的程序其實也要看我們再把相關的準備的工作做完以後那現在有到的嗎 有沒有 300多人有嗎"},{"start":99.482,"end":115.516,"text":"後續這個後面還要把所以現在還沒有正確數字就對了還沒有所以1月9號的時候我們次長剛剛部長有講到嘛我們的次長陳明仁跟陳慕名大使率團10個人去那邊所以他們去幹嘛是去旅遊還是"},{"start":116.417,"end":135.51,"text":"當然不是旅遊,他們是公務也就是他們在看包括我們很多台商使用印度勞工的狀況那也包括去了解他們行政體系裡面的目前的一些現況比較知道我們要跟他銜接的話用怎麼樣銜接的方式會比較所以你們三個月已經過了三個月到現在還沒有一個結果嗎?"},{"start":136.831,"end":155.584,"text":"已經去回來了所以現在還在跟印方針對後續的這個行政上面的流程跟對接細節正在做一些文件上面的確認檢核也就是說我們現在可以確定就是說有300多人已經在3月份審查完了不是不是審查完了沒有都沒有是"},{"start":156.484,"end":181.089,"text":"那他們去幹什麼委員剛剛其實在講的比較是在印度的這個幫他們自己內部去詢問有意願的人有300多但他目前還沒有進入到整個引進的程序裡面為什麼那麼慢因為我們跟印方其實要引進的話有很多行政的對口必須要銜接那也包括其實包括像健檢"},{"start":181.989,"end":199.7,"text":"包括很多手批會什麼時候來我們當然認為今年是有可能的那有多少這個比例是你們講的G2G政府對政府的這個執聘還是維持你們之前所說的5%嗎"},{"start":200.988,"end":215.339,"text":"大概2024年的時候當時勞動部是有承諾5%但我們希望能夠做的比這邊更多所以你會超過就對了我們希望能夠超過比較希望嘛 你有沒有把握這其實也會涉及到企業的需求的狀況"},{"start":216.56,"end":223.684,"text":"所以我先看一下就關於印度移工的引進細節你確認一下這份勞動部去年在11月25日的視訊會議記錄那1月9號這個次長率大使過去那這是確定的嗎我們現在看到這個部分就是說他這個記錄是確定的嗎"},{"start":242.831,"end":263.584,"text":"這個是工作成績會議這是工作成績會議那我們1月的部分是直接我們次長帶我們發言人現在印度那邊他已經是強調說台灣是這個特別個案然後他可以免這個登錄平台也可以不用繳讀冊費也不用繳保證金"},{"start":266.226,"end":286.216,"text":"就是不用因為原本他們原本這個針對就是emigrant的這個使用的方式我們進行蠻多次的磋商那後來我們是不用目前是談是不用經過爭取到不用一定非得要經過emigrant的做法那現在已經印度那邊已經幫我們開了這個綠色通道那為什麼到現在我們這個速度會這麼慢"},{"start":289.078,"end":306.849,"text":"根本說明這邊確實比方說像健檢那怎麼去確認彼此健檢的品質跟這個相關的審定也包括剛才講到有一些文件其實需要相關的驗證跟檢核這個文件驗證的檢核的方式其實現在都在跟硬方在在討論之中"},{"start":308.092,"end":326.298,"text":"所以是還在溝通協調當中事務性的部分那什麼時候會這個直接進入實質的這個作為但我說我們認為今年應該是有機會的今年多少人會有多少人就是就是你講的那個1000人對5%更高這跟我們說明第一個這也要看企業的需求"},{"start":328.087,"end":349.715,"text":"現在我現在有個疑問就是說現在印度方他已經這些免這些這個保證金這些那我們只有提提5%在300人左右那其他的其他的部分那怎麼辦我們還是透過仲介嗎第一個300人不是那5%"},{"start":352.256,"end":368.319,"text":"我們現在希望如果要引進的話能夠讓職聘的部分是可以相對比較優先的所以我們希望能夠超過這個所謂的5%那我們如果這樣子的話我們面對美國的這個307條款301關稅法那個301條款那這裡面的這個部分我們能夠通過嗎我們在對美國的部分"},{"start":378.145,"end":400.063,"text":"第一個是跟美國的部分現在301的調查正在進行我們都在準備給美方的文件所以我們也必須把我們目前的作為包括像我們指引包括我們的宣導輔導包括現在把救護法的修法等等等等這都會有助於讓美國美方確認我們在301的調查裡面我個人認為這一次當然是在這個301條款裡面"},{"start":401.644,"end":425.05,"text":"就是說我們台灣最好的一個翻身的機會我們應該好好把握這一次機會一定要然後因為我剛剛也看到聽到幾個委員在講就其他的這個像我們這個剛剛講那個我們美國的那個那個什麼那個巨大的那個被"},{"start":429.317,"end":449.807,"text":"那現在那個部分怎麼處理現在目前巨大公司其實已經有說明他已經跟美方的CBP取得他們目前正在確認那個他們提出具體的改善狀況相關的後續的集合跟一些文件上面的審閱那我請教農業部一下"},{"start":460.732,"end":481.441,"text":"委員賴清德總統說要成立300億元的農安基金它的本質到底是什麼?是要用在哪裡?農安基金主要是針對這一次台美關稅裡面不管是進口出口那這個是屬於市場章的部分就是我們農營餘緒這些產業受到衝擊的部分來協助的部分"},{"start":485.583,"end":514.51,"text":"那這個關稅裡面還有所謂的市場章跟勞動章裡面相關的規範那環境章當然就是一些涉及有沒有非法捕魚啦環境保護的勞動章對我們是漁業影響是比較大因為勞動章裡面這裡面就有要求到說比如說我們要在修法三年內要讓我們境外僱用的這些的外籍船員的勞動權益要等同"},{"start":515.63,"end":532.418,"text":"本國人要有相當所以變成說這農安基金變成是總統特別支持我們農業在這一次關稅裡面受到衝擊那後續我們要整體來提升產業的競爭力那給予的一些的產業的支持措施"},{"start":534.159,"end":558.376,"text":"對 農安基金的這個核心的功能就是為了救助那些受進口損害的農民那他編入的預算應該是專款專用那作為農民面對貿易自由化時最後的保命符這張是你們在今年2月發出的顧農民的宣傳圖除了圖上那27項你們宣稱的沒降稅沒讓利的農產品之外其餘的品項包括豬肉"},{"start":560.479,"end":568.837,"text":"鴨 鵝 鮮果是不是因為我們在台美貿易談判中放棄了特別防衛關稅導致這些農民失去了最後一道防護網"},{"start":570.086,"end":584.493,"text":"那這300億本來應該用來補償這些國家的因為國家整體經濟貿易而損失而被犧牲的農民可是我看到你們在這個報告第4頁你們竟然要動用農安基金特別預算去處理遠洋漁業的強迫勞動的問題請教一下遠洋漁業的問題是進口損害嗎"},{"start":591.168,"end":614.996,"text":"委員就要跟您報告就是說它不是受進口損害但是在這一次台美關稅裡面當然有市場的輸出跟准入的問題但是台美關稅裡面也特別提到勞動的議題就我剛剛講勞動章的這一個部分那美國對於這種我們的漁業因為我們的遠洋漁業其實是高度的仰賴出口"},{"start":615.537,"end":620.011,"text":"所以他對於這個要提升勞動權益的要求相對比較多啦"},{"start":621.317,"end":646.265,"text":"所以你們是因為勞工的部分嘛 對不對當然我們還有我們所謂的隨產品的出口跟進口的部分也有一部分會受到影響但是很大比例會是在這一個勞動議題的部分對啊 我看到美方強調這個無法聯繫外界是強迫勞動的一個核心的指標就是說目前1135艘風險漁船中只有183艘"},{"start":651.027,"end":659.854,"text":"安裝了Wi-Fi那剩下952艘將近84%的漁船都是在海上通訊黑洞你要如何向美方證明說船上沒有強迫勞動"},{"start":662.508,"end":682.602,"text":"跟委員報告因為強迫勞動就誠如洪部長講的其實他有各項指標啦我看到你的計畫只有300艘要裝設那這代表預設有超過800艘的漁船不需要通訊設備那你們同意美國的手伸這麼長他如果到時候要進來檢查這種而且你們這種做法有符合美國的標準嗎"},{"start":684.091,"end":709.307,"text":"跟委員報告就是其實我們現行零有這個遠洋作業許可應該是940幾艘啦那美國我們在跟他雙邊諮商裡面他對於Wi-Fi這一件事要普及化這一件事其實他給我們的目標是希望逐年提升是三年內要達到300艘但是我想這不是我們不會把這個當作是一個"},{"start":712.129,"end":738.994,"text":"一個我只會把它當成低標我們會來努力要來擴充我們超過300艘就對了對對對我們要努力要達成絕對要超過這300艘多久的時間我們希望是起碼兩這三美國給我們的要求是三年內要到300艘但是我們自我要求我兩年內我就要達到300艘啦齁那三年的部分甚至400我們都會來努力是好謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":743.175,"end":746.173,"text":"謝謝邱勝軍委員的發言接下來請王安祥委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}