{"error":false,"id":["168397"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168397,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168397","日期":"2026-04-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-09T12:22:08+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-09T12:29:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe6424cd58e46bc75d3988e2358d14280a49e36d97d29c5f155eb231b44028890cd0b6bef2137dcc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王安祥","委員發言時間":"12:22:08 - 12:29:02","會議時間":"2026-04-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、經濟部、農業部就「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：台灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月8日及9日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":0.28409375000000003,"end":1.27971875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":1.6003437500000002,"end":3.0853437500000003,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":8.56971875,"end":62.789093750000006,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":25.39409375,"end":25.512218750000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":25.54596875,"end":25.64721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":63.109718750000006,"end":77.03159375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":72.03659375000001,"end":72.12096875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":75.19221875000001,"end":76.15409375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":77.03159375,"end":84.35534375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":83.95034375,"end":94.95284375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":86.02596875,"end":87.12284375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":94.32846875,"end":97.12971875000001,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":97.12971875000001,"end":98.69909375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":98.19284375000001,"end":100.28534375000001,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":98.96909375,"end":106.93409375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":106.14096875000001,"end":113.32971875000001,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":109.26284375,"end":109.41471875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":113.65034375,"end":117.07596875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":117.16034375000001,"end":117.24471875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":117.26159375,"end":130.01909375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":120.40034375,"end":120.80534375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":126.34034375,"end":126.71159375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":128.66909375,"end":142.75971875000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":138.05159375,"end":138.84471875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":142.91159375,"end":152.19284375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":151.24784375000002,"end":152.32784375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":152.32784375,"end":189.62159375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":162.25034375,"end":162.65534375000001,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":168.67971875,"end":168.73034375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":178.45034375,"end":178.73721875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":185.77409375000002,"end":208.48784375000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":190.73534375,"end":191.35971875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":208.13346875000002,"end":209.92221875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":208.62284375000002,"end":208.97721875000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":209.29784375000003,"end":211.57596875000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":209.95596875,"end":209.98971875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":211.03596875000002,"end":220.48596875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":213.17909375000002,"end":213.61784375000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":220.48596875,"end":233.83409375000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":220.51971875,"end":220.55346875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":233.93534375000002,"end":239.58846875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":238.27221875,"end":239.31846875000002,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":239.80784375000002,"end":243.80721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":242.37284375000002,"end":245.91659375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":244.73534375000003,"end":252.21096875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":248.90346875,"end":249.61221875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":251.11409375000002,"end":254.01659375000003,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":253.12221875000003,"end":268.02284375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":268.02284375,"end":271.06034375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":270.77346875,"end":278.14784375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":274.21596875,"end":274.63784375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":277.72596875,"end":285.18471875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":285.18471875,"end":285.62346875000003,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":285.62346875000003,"end":287.27721875000003,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":286.18034375,"end":290.73659375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":290.65221875000003,"end":295.07346875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":295.07346875,"end":302.00909375000003,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":302.00909375000003,"end":317.33159375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":317.61846875000003,"end":318.00659375000004,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":318.20909375,"end":318.25971875000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":318.37784375,"end":332.87346875000003,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":332.87346875000003,"end":333.04221875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":333.04221875,"end":346.52534375000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":333.58221875000004,"end":333.66659375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":341.66534375000003,"end":341.88471875000005,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":346.05284375,"end":350.01846875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":349.39409375,"end":353.37659375000004,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":352.78596875,"end":368.36159375,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":367.43346875000003,"end":367.97346875000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":368.00721875000005,"end":368.05784375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":368.27721875000003,"end":389.05034375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":377.64284375,"end":377.91284375000004,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":389.18534375,"end":402.73596875000004,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":399.32721875000004,"end":399.63096875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":401.20034375,"end":406.44846875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":405.63846875,"end":406.34721875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員安祥","start":406.44846875,"end":406.51596875,"speaker_score":0.921},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王署長茂城","start":408.72659375,"end":413.06346875,"speaker_score":0.942}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.29,"end":0.813,"text":"約束署長有請約束署長"},{"start":8.841,"end":33.567,"text":"委員好這個要講殘破勞動跟這個今天所謂的我看你們的報告公平招募我想一定要來跟大家這個了解一下狀況我想過去這個遠洋漁船對台灣來說其實是很重要的一個經濟的命脈不過過去大家可能在這個不光是在新聞上或是偶像劇都在拍這個東西那一直到前幾天其實還在這個100日也開了這個大萬號記者會"},{"start":35.487,"end":62.455,"text":"我也看到這個農業部的漁業署這邊也發了這個相關的新聞稿不過過去因為這個我想我也同意你們的報告上面寫其實大部分的這些業者其實都是蠻好的蠻守法的不過還是有一些業者其實有一些問題那第一個事情就是我想過去大家對我們的工時過長或者是甚至我們在這個美國的這個清單裡面我們想要現在這個想要在這個清單裡面除名的這個進度大概是怎樣"},{"start":63.331,"end":85.477,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們是真的很遺憾就是我們將近一千條的漁船裡面還是有少數涉及到這種比如說COCO薪資然後這一類的我們現在已經1.0了嘛已經第一期我們小夜夜也去跟美方也做了很多的說明我們已經有十幾次的雙邊的諮商"},{"start":87.818,"end":111.408,"text":"被列為強迫勞動清單已經三次了那今年2026年的9月我希望署長是不是可以說這一次我是很期待我們一定可以提名這樣盡全力的把我們這幾年的努力成果我們都會定期跟AIT來做所以你覺得到底問題是在哪裡因為這麼多次了這麼多次的磋商會覺得很有機會啊為什麼待會公會一會"},{"start":113.709,"end":142.338,"text":"委員在美國我們一直跟他討論為什麼不能解除強迫勞動清單他裡面有一點就是說台灣對於這種系統性欠薪的問題沒有做有效的解決所以我們過去也弄了很多證據用一些很多科學的方法像你們第一期裝了什麼CCTV或是我們用一些鏈的方法把它做這個沒有具體的成效嗎"},{"start":143.138,"end":160.804,"text":"有那跟委員報告就是美方最關切的還是就是我們過去這兩三年發生了12件的欠時的事件那所以我們在去年就邀請我們這些工協會我們發展出一套系統就是工協會你要成立一個薪資電廠的機制"},{"start":162.825,"end":190.841,"text":"那只要一發生欠薪的狀況什麼錢都可以欠就是不能欠漁工的錢哪怕你經營不善所以你這一個工會要跳出來把漁工的錢先還清那經營者欠的這幾錢工會你再慢慢循程序來跟他要所以我們今年正式實施這個新機電廠的機制那在跟AIT的溝通過程當中他也非常肯認我們這樣的做法希望今年我們就能夠除名了我們會來努力"},{"start":192.162,"end":205.729,"text":"那因為我知道你們報告也特別寫就是說現在遠洋跟近海是不同適用的法規嘛很多學者也在講這個事情不過我看到你們的報告裡面寫說第一個我問一下西188的市議法還有在推嗎"},{"start":208.51,"end":233.456,"text":"正在推 還在推就是所謂的國內法制化嘛是 已經送到行政院了那行政院也審議過了現在就等行政院院會通過我們就可以送立法院來排審對 因為現在我們其實有很多勞動法我們都在推啦 學習都在推啦我看你們也寫說要朝勞基法藝人化精神啊是你們對於這個我們很多勞動法適用到遠洋的漁船上你們的見解是怎麼樣"},{"start":234.256,"end":261.792,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們遠洋在境外聘僱漁工這件事那我們勞基法是民國73年是是是我知道這個很多先生也給你們很多意見你們應該知道我們在勞找之前我們就有這一套制度境外聘用這種外籍漁工我知道我知道後來也給你們管嘛對所以我們還是後來跟勞動部的分工上那我們在境外聘僱境外解僱走的是我們遠洋漁業條例的系統"},{"start":262.852,"end":281.187,"text":"那當然現在是雙軌制沒錯但是我們都有共同的目標就是要慢慢地適用國內的一些勞動法制嘛 對不對對 那雙我們雖然是雙軌管理但是未來的終極目標會走到精神都是一致的像勞基法像是最近比較多人提像那個災保法"},{"start":281.727,"end":301.305,"text":"我不曉得你們評估的結果怎麼樣職業安全衛生的部分我們還是適用勞動部的職安衛我們講的是那個災保法保險法就是那個職業災害那委員因為這一塊就是一樣是我們遠洋醫院條例我們自己走的是我們的商業保險"},{"start":304.428,"end":317,"text":"所以我希望能夠逐漸統一我們的法制另外你們在報告裡面寫到說就是你們會要求不能收一些服務費這個服務費確定了服務費你們也要求他們都不能收"},{"start":318.541,"end":345.038,"text":"跟委員報告國內的部分我們在去年就修法完成了就是我們的仲介跟經營者都不能跟漁工收取任何的費用那現在比較麻煩還是在來源國那一塊來源國他要出來的費用現在像印尼出來可能要收6000到7000塊的美金那這個要講清楚如果未來需要我們雇主來吸收那"},{"start":346.419,"end":366.858,"text":"所以我們現在國內啦 其實救護法這邊其實也有很多的問題啦對 這個都要跟來源國講清楚啦要不然這個會...好 知道因為時間關係啦我最後關...就是再問最後一個問題啦是就像我們在301號一些那個計職調查因為經濟部他們已經開始做嘛那不曉得你們這個能力部這邊應該屬於要怎麼配啊因為你們都是小...你們說你們都size都很小嘛"},{"start":367.938,"end":388.893,"text":"委員很內行啊我們百分之八九十的漁船都是自然人個體戶那要做到淨值調查我們現在是希望由大代小所以說我們的貿易商那你的供應鏈裡面有一些的漁船要賣給他的那貿易商在做淨值調查的時候你要想辦法要配合"},{"start":389.453,"end":406.186,"text":"主席已經站起來沒關係啦 我們會後來如果那個醫護署那邊有什麼有一些最新的一些報告 包括CCTV或是Wi-Fi的狀況因為我們過去一直在關注這個議題啦也請醫護署這邊給我們一些書面的資料沒問題 沒問題或是有機會到委員辦公室跟委員做說明可以出現好 我們謝謝王安祥委員發言"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:08+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:09+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:08.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:08.471000+08:00","text":"請漁業署署長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:08.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:08.813000+08:00","text":"請農業部漁業署署長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:16.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:17.141000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:17.141000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:18.802000+08:00","text":"署長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:18.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:28.724000+08:00","text":"今天要講強迫勞動，我看你們的報告是寫公平招募，所以我想一定要來和大家了解一下狀況。","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:29.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:22:47.468000+08:00","text":"過去遠洋漁船對臺灣來說，其實是很重要的一個經濟命脈，過去不論是新聞或是偶像劇都在拍這個東西，一直到前幾天，其實立法院也召開大旺號的記者會，我也看到農業部漁業署發了相關的新聞稿。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:22:50.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:00.212000+08:00","text":"我也同意你們報告上面寫的，其實大部分的業者都是滿好、滿守法的，不過還是有一些業者有些問題。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:00.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:10.455000+08:00","text":"第一個就是過去大家對我們工時過長的印象，我們甚至被美國列在清單裡面，現在想要在清單裡面除名，不曉得進度大概是怎樣？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:13.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:25.055000+08:00","text":"我們是真的很遺憾，將近1,000條漁船裡面，還是有少數涉及比如苛扣薪資這一類的。是。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:25.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:26.615000+08:00","text":"我們現在已經1.0了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:27.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:31.797000+08:00","text":"已經是第一期，也向美方做了很多說明。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:31.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:41.481000+08:00","text":"我們已經進行十幾次的雙邊諮商，被列為強迫勞動清單已經三次了，今年2026年9月，它還會……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:42.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:43.702000+08:00","text":"現在署長是不是可以說這次一定可以除名？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:45.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:46.143000+08:00","text":"我是很期待。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:46.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:53.686000+08:00","text":"我們盡全力展現這幾年的努力成果，這些都會定期向AIT回應。是。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:54.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:56.927000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得問題到底是在哪裡？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:56.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:59.048000+08:00","text":"因為進行這麼多次磋商，我覺得很有機會啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:23:59.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:23:59.388000+08:00","text":"為什麼後來功虧一簣？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:24:01.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:24:17.314000+08:00","text":"委員，在美國，我們一直和他們討論為什麼不能解除強迫勞動清單，這裡面有一點，就是臺灣對於這種系統性欠薪的問題沒有做有效解決，就是過去……對。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:24:17.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:24:25.476000+08:00","text":"所以我們過去弄了很多evidence，用很多的科學方法防止，像你們第一期就裝了CCTV啊！對，是。","quality":0.659},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:24:25.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:24:31.138000+08:00","text":"或者我們用一些鏈接的方法，沒有具體的成效嗎？有。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:24:33.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:24:57.549000+08:00","text":"美方最關切的，就是我們過去這兩、三年發生了12件欠薪事件，所以我們去年就邀集這些公（協）會研商，也發展出一套系統，就是公（協）會要成立一個薪資墊償的機制，只要一發生欠薪的狀況，什麼錢都可以欠，就是不能欠漁工的錢，哪怕你經營不善。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:24:59.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:07.415000+08:00","text":"這時候工會要跳出來，把漁工的錢先還清，經營者欠的這些錢，工會再慢慢循程序跟他要。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:07.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:17.260000+08:00","text":"所以我們今年正式實施薪資墊償的機制，和AIT的溝通過程當中，他們也非常肯認我們這樣的做法。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:17.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:18.321000+08:00","text":"所以希望今年我們就能夠除名。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:18.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:18.821000+08:00","text":"是，我們會努力。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:20.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:28.906000+08:00","text":"因為我知道，你們的報告也特別寫了，就是現在遠洋和近海適用不同的法規，很多學者也在講這個事情。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:29.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:33.729000+08:00","text":"不過我看到你們的報告裡面寫到一點，我問一下，C188施行法還有在推嗎？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:36.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:37.410000+08:00","text":"正在推，還在推。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:37.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:38.911000+08:00","text":"就是國內法制化？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:39.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:48.633000+08:00","text":"是，已經送到行政院，行政院也審議過了，現在就等行政院院會通過，我們就可以送立法院排審。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:48.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:51.294000+08:00","text":"因為現在其實還有很多勞動法，我們都要推啦！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:51.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:52.094000+08:00","text":"也持續都在推啦！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:52.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:25:55.154000+08:00","text":"我看你們也寫要朝勞基法一元化的精神走。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:25:56.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:01.456000+08:00","text":"關於我們很多勞動法適用遠洋漁船的部分，你們的見解怎麼樣？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:02.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:09.640000+08:00","text":"其實遠洋漁業在境外聘僱漁工這件事，我們勞基法是民國73年制定的……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:10.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:13.703000+08:00","text":"是，我知道，很多學者也給你們很多意見，你們應該知道。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:13.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:19.306000+08:00","text":"我們老早之前就有這一套制度，就是境外聘用外籍漁工的制度。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:19.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:21.967000+08:00","text":"我知道，後來也給你們管！對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:21.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:29.792000+08:00","text":"所以我們後來和勞動部的分工，就是境外聘僱、境外解僱走的是遠洋漁業條例的系統。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:31.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:35.596000+08:00","text":"當然，現在是雙軌制沒錯，但是我們都有共同的目標……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:35.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:39.119000+08:00","text":"就是要慢慢適用國內一些勞動法制，對不對？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:40.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:45.824000+08:00","text":"我們雖然是雙軌管理，但是未來的終極目標會走到精神都是一致的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:45.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:52.349000+08:00","text":"像勞基法，或是最近比較多人提的災保法，不曉得你們評估的結果怎麼樣？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:52.349000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:53.349000+08:00","text":"就是遠洋漁產的職業災害保險部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:52.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:26:58.315000+08:00","text":"職業安全衛生的部分，還是適用勞動部的職安衛……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:26:58.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:02.639000+08:00","text":"不是，我們講的是災保法，就是職業災害的部分。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:03.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:09.305000+08:00","text":"委員，這一塊一樣是在遠洋漁業條例，所以我們走的是商業保險。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:12.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:15.671000+08:00","text":"好，OK，我希望能夠逐漸統一法制。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:16.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:22.557000+08:00","text":"另外，你們在報告裡面寫到，你們會要求不能收服務費，這個部分確定嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:23.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:24.980000+08:00","text":"你們也會要求他們都不能收服務費？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:27.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:37.107000+08:00","text":"國內的部分去年就完成修法了，也就是仲介和經營者都不能向漁工收取任何費用。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:38.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:52.397000+08:00","text":"現在比較麻煩的還是在來源國那一塊，他從來源國出來的費用，像從印尼出來可能要收6,000元到7,000元美金，這個要講清楚，如果未來需要雇主吸收，這個……","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:54.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:27:57.582000+08:00","text":"其實現在國內就服法在這方面也有很多問題！","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:27:58.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:00.985000+08:00","text":"對，這些都要和來源國講清楚，要不然會……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:01.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:03.988000+08:00","text":"因為時間關係，我再問最後一個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:07.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:12.315000+08:00","text":"有關301盡職調查，因為經濟部已經開始做了，不曉得農業部漁業署要怎麼配合？","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:12.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:14.637000+08:00","text":"因為你們說你們的規模都很小，要怎麼配合？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:15.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:17.099000+08:00","text":"委員很內行！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:17.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:36.873000+08:00","text":"我們百分之八、九十的漁船都是自然人個體戶，要做到盡職調查，我們現在是希望由大帶小，比如我們貿易商的供應鏈，當一些漁船要賣貨給他們，貿易商做盡職調查的時候，你要想辦法配合。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:37.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:38.394000+08:00","text":"主席已經站起來了。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:38.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:49.923000+08:00","text":"沒關係，會後如果漁業署有最新的報告，包括CCTV或是Wi-Fi的狀況，因為我們過去一直在關注這個議題，也請漁業署給我相關的書面資料，感謝。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"王署長茂城","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:50.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:53.285000+08:00","text":"是，沒問題，或是有機會到委員辦公室向委員說明。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員安祥","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:53.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:53.625000+08:00","text":"好，感謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:53.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:54.166000+08:00","text":"謝謝王安祥委員發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:54.666000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:56.666000+08:00","text":"現在先休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:56.966000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:28:58.108857+08:00","text":"休息（12時29分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:28:58.408857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:00.123143+08:00","text":"繼續開會（12時35分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:00.423143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:02.137429+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:02.437429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:09.580286+08:00","text":"請鄭正鈐委員發言，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:09.880286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:18.166000+08:00","text":"接著我們請洪毓祥委員發言，洪毓祥委員、洪毓祥委員、洪毓祥委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:18.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:26.751714+08:00","text":"接著我們請葉元之委員發言，葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:27.051714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:35.337429+08:00","text":"接著我們請鄭天財委員發言，鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:35.637429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:43.923143+08:00","text":"接著我們請林倩綺委員發言，林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:44.223143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:29:52.508857+08:00","text":"接著我們請蔡春綢委員發言，蔡春綢委員、蔡春綢委員、蔡春綢委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:29:52.808857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:30:01.094571+08:00","text":"接著我們請鍾佳濱委員發言，鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:30:01.394571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:30:04.823143+08:00","text":"接著我們請劉建國委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}