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勞動部應該是很重要的是貴部啦 對不對那請問部長你們諮問有做到嗎也可以請委員再提供給我們更多就是說哪些地方改善你不正面回應我的問題沒關係我們就一項一項來希望等一下你午餐可以用得很順暢"},{"start":70.755,"end":85.464,"text":"員工協助方案就是要照顧勞工方方面面然後協助各種問題其中是這個身心諮詢壓力排除最為關鍵那今天我要感謝那個召委啦他那個人已經走了也都感謝了謝謝王貞興委員"},{"start":88.606,"end":101.358,"text":"來防制強迫勞動與公平招募那台灣的移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈的這個治理的專報但是這個南東部對移工的身心健康有照顧到嗎"},{"start":102.981,"end":118.518,"text":"我先給部長看一則報導那是報導者他們的這個整個描述為何痛苦的有近七成的醫工陷入失語的壓力然後這個身體健康亮起紅燈怎麼還沒跳出來來"},{"start":126.617,"end":151.441,"text":"部長可以看一下啦我對報道者的相關的一些報道一直以來都是非常重視因為他們這些記者基本上都是非常的深入也非常用心這邊當然想講這樣因為語言文化的先天革命當然也移工在底台工作初期因語言與適應新環境而累積的這個情緒都曾讓他們體驗過失語的滋味那無論可訴說煩惱與來自雇主的壓力"},{"start":154.902,"end":181.141,"text":"常成為壓垮移工的稻草在過去三十餘年間不少漢氏病由失語延伸也根據立憲基金會移住者服務中心的調查近七成移工處於壓力環境台大醫學院的多名精神科醫師也研究發現超過四成以上看護工有睡眠的困擾然後進一步影響到心理的健康"},{"start":183.946,"end":193.033,"text":"不能知道這些報道嗎?有有嗎?那再根據這個利新基金會在2022年3年多前對531名的這個移工發起移工勞動現況及心理健康調查那處於壓力環境的高達67.4%及高壓力的已經來到14.3%"},{"start":208.374,"end":213.784,"text":"這個需要專業的人員的諮商或協助500多名的這個人的樣本"},{"start":215.444,"end":240.612,"text":"呈現出這樣的結果是非常驚人的然後又以看護工遭遇情緒困擾的比例高於這個產業移工那其實也不能想像看護工必須二、四個小時然後陪伴在照顧者身旁同時同住那一般家屬都受不了的情況之下慌亂我們的這個移工面對這樣的困境他要如何尋求這個求助"},{"start":242.853,"end":264.659,"text":"那再請部長看一看這一張投影片這是勞花署勞花署在這個外國人勞動權利網上提供的相關的資訊不只這個中文版更翻譯成英文、印尼文、泰文、越南文四種這個外文版的這樣的一個版本不然你知道這一張圖有什麼樣的問題嗎"},{"start":270.476,"end":283.087,"text":"看起來是幾個國家的語言都有在上面除此之外還有嗎那其實我認為我們其實因為如果移工打1955可是1955要直接接到相關EAP"},{"start":284.639,"end":298.005,"text":"的系統的話其實這個語言的協助其實可能還是會有一些阻礙好會長講到講那部分1925是安心的專線生命線是1955所以不想讓只有他這個1955那張老師是1980"},{"start":301.346,"end":307.87,"text":"如果如須同意服務可洽1955專線來尋求協助就是部長剛剛所講的嘛我幫部長打了啦 也電話求證過了這個生命線的1995是1995還是19551955對嘛1955張老師的1980都沒有對應移工的專門服務"},{"start":326.693,"end":336.046,"text":"若要諮詢醫工仍然需要用中文跟對接人對談至於衛護部的1925僅在上班時間提供英語服務"},{"start":340.627,"end":369.493,"text":"所以1955到底是什麼電話義工專線嗎義工如果他有他權益上面的問題的話他打1955可以得到這個語言上面的協助可是的確像委員說的包括生命線的1995或者是張老師的1980那對於目前義工比較熟悉的這些東南亞國家的語言其實可能的確是還是需要多一點的協助還是需要多一點協助嗎所以顯然部長你知道問題之所在嗎是"},{"start":370.919,"end":392.919,"text":"我們30多年了怎麼還會這個樣子?跟文說明我們接下來會想要請這個我有請發言署針對其實漁工在台灣可能會在各種需要語言協助的情境都希望做一輪的盤點跟整體的檢討那現在委員在講的可能是對他的心理"},{"start":394.32,"end":417.491,"text":"諮詢或者是心理上面需要專業需要的部分這當然會是其中一個情境那我們接下來也有想要找包括台灣的這個雇主也包括NGO包括各個其實相關的方向團體希望能夠來盤點大家需要語言的情境那可能各種不同語言的情境他需要各種不同的方案有些是需要人有些部分他是需要一些"},{"start":418.371,"end":444.36,"text":"界面的翻譯的資源其實都可能所以我們接下來想要針對這個語言移工的語言的需求的部分做一個整體性的檢討那這部分當然委員現在提到的部分應該也是要是我們在裡面檢討的其中之一部長我們引進這個外籍的看護工已經30多年是那這張圖法又是我們勞動部勞化署製作的嘛是對不對好那我們今天的主題叫做臺灣移工制度接軌國際人權嘛我們連"},{"start":448.241,"end":473.126,"text":"連一個基本上的一個諮商 心理上的協助都這麼樣的卡卡 簡單講叫卡卡然後30多年來就是如此我們如果要再請生命線 詹老師外匯部的1925的提供協助就提出支援 進行相關的合作"},{"start":475.503,"end":504.471,"text":"可能還要一段時間的磨合對不對現在其實有三方同意的服務但是在三方同意的服務在哪邊要打哪一支電話報告委員如果是打1955的話我們也可以幫他再接接到這個1995或者是1925或者是1925要間接嘛對對對要間接嘛他必須再打過來我們1955那我們就可以三方通話那署長你有自己打過嗎我沒有打過那你要不要試看看"},{"start":505.492,"end":515.061,"text":"如果間接?是斷接還是間接?還是不接?還是借斷?你不要急著幫署長回應啦我是想說因為署長剛上任沒多久啦我們把問題挑出來好好的面對來做處理啦所以當你要答覆的時候應該你要相當有把握的這是一個非常可以間接的順暢的應該沒有什麼多大的問題"},{"start":530.855,"end":543.282,"text":"那你可以很胸口清楚地回答我回答我說這個已經做一段時間基本上當然還有微調還是修正的空間不過應該是順暢的啦但是你們答不出來啊對不對你們答不出來啊"},{"start":546.952,"end":564.369,"text":"我就剛剛跟你講說我已經幫你們打過了我想今天是這樣啦我不是要去吐槽你們不過如果今天到現在這相關的專線都還有存在這樣的問題而且你們知道問題之所在然後一直到現在沒辦法處理那今天開這個會的主題我覺得就有一點"},{"start":567.217,"end":592.187,"text":"所以我是希望這樣提出資源進行合作然後跟衛福部跟生命線那義工如果需要輔導直接打1995、1955、1980的專線不然你這個海報做這樣、圖卡做這樣叫人家打電話去結果人家根本沒有辦法去提供義工母語的服務然後我覺得這樣就是很不好外籍義工他屬於在生命垂尾的邊緣"},{"start":594.119,"end":609.435,"text":"生命的垂尾冰眼那發生的這樣狀況我們有沒有做過相關的這些統計我想沒有啦那你這個專線的存在的實質的意義我是覺得"},{"start":610.444,"end":638.617,"text":"我們也新部長 也新署長了要不要好好解釋就只有這些專線 針對這些專線我們可以來檢討他整個這個通譯服務的接通跟接軌的機制這部分我們也來檢討這個事情好 那是不是可以應該是兩個禮拜就可以把這樣的檢討提出來給我們做參考為什麼一個月一個月啦 還有一些相關修正然後可以實質上的一些真正的對接 間接 轉接都可以"},{"start":639.597,"end":643.105,"text":"我也請部長道維斯講EAP不應該只有專屬大公司"},{"start":644.571,"end":673.396,"text":"大企業的福利我們現在是總預算各部會都還沒有審這個到時候我們也會針對各大的部會還有相關的三級機關都好好再檢視EAP的一個執行狀況所以對民間來講不管是大公司還是大企業的福利唯一小企業辦公室小店家甚至像家庭康復工身處在這些職場的勞工他們也需要EAP勞動部應該如何來做這樣的一個整員同整資源然後提供一個全國性的勞工都可以使用EAP"},{"start":674.196,"end":684.102,"text":"我想這個是絕對是一個福國利民的政策請部長能不能帶回細心的研究我們就一併來講一樣一個月好不好可以嗎可以啦再來部長再看第二題移工之前的這樣的一個教育訓練86%投入3K產業民團開課判降低自災風險我們治安法也已經通過"},{"start":702.117,"end":719.171,"text":"怎麼會有現在還會有這樣積極的想要做這樣的一個訴求這雖然看是113年我昨天還接到某個大學還有產業界的重要的一些人士來對我提出這樣的一個現狀其實他們"},{"start":725.479,"end":745.089,"text":"因應期盼的要降低整個這個外籍移工不管是中階不管是高階的這些專責技術的人員希望在台灣的職場上可以得到更多更好的保障這個之前的教育就是相對的重要到現在為止昨天不知道怎麼看待這個事情"},{"start":746.198,"end":759.327,"text":"第一個跟委員說明其實現在在職災比例比較高的還是在營造業營造業現在移工是有開放的確我們在現在的整體的減災的計畫裡面其實也針對營造業在討論那因為其實有很多安全防護的資訊其實"},{"start":766.372,"end":786.102,"text":"營造業的現場不一定都有提供這些移工母國的版本所以怎麼在這些資訊的提供包括可能現場的機具的使用或者是一些危害的市井上其實也要有讓移工可以了解資訊的部分這部分我們要來做那另外一方面其實在針對營造業的減災的部分我們其實也會針對這個治安卡的部分"},{"start":789.444,"end":811.333,"text":"來去擴大推動那在治安卡的部分裡面其中也有部分會是針對移工那尤其移工的話有各項的語言那在我們去年底公布的減災計畫裡面接下來治安卡要更大幅度的由政府這邊來去協助來去推動那這部分我們當然也有跟營造業這邊來去討論會推動的機制那其中移工的部分的持災就會是裡面一個其中很重要的環節"},{"start":812.902,"end":827.514,"text":"這個我們什麼時候開始做這樣的一個更積極的一個因應今年開始今年開始今年第一劑剛過對不對那你們有沒有對照這個報導是2024啊那2025的出來有沒有我給部長跟署長講一個數據嘛2024的移工職災幾戶就有1532件"},{"start":839.009,"end":864.301,"text":"這幾個案件裡面其中夾傷、切傷、割傷就有1,069件佔整體的69.7%是移工最主要的職業災害項目其實是墜落、跌倒等撞擊傷害佔比有14%被物品飛落、倒塌、壓傷7.3%燒讓傷或是接觸到有害物質等環境傷害7.5%署長能不能直接跟部長跟委員會講說2025已經顯著下降"},{"start":867.54,"end":896.81,"text":"哪幾個項目減少了幾%有沒有把握2025的資料目前看起來勞保局目前還在統計中但是我跟文說的時候因為我剛剛在講的是我們其實去年下半年有發布一個強化減災的計畫這個強化減災計畫裡面其實有27項的要去做的工作其中有一個部分就是資安卡的擴大那資安卡擴大裡面其實就是希望能夠更多的把移工給納進來那這個部分的工作會是今年擴大開始做"},{"start":897.21,"end":905.639,"text":"就是應該是之前就有職安卡的制度可是我們希望現在政府的部分要在職安卡的推動裡面要承擔起一個更大的責任這是從今年開始"},{"start":907.319,"end":927.691,"text":"陳昌喜更大的責任不應該是從今年開始的,是應該早早就會開始的我只是想說用2025來對照2024其實很多事情我們就可以顯得來了解說問題到底應該怎麼去再做一些調整跟修正啦我是提醒這個嘛,你看連民主黨都認為不行啊"},{"start":928.291,"end":951.718,"text":"希望趕快這樣開這個職災的相關的課程降低職災的風險嘛我不曉得我們的班是越開越多還是越開越少如果你的班越開越少那你進來的人這個人是越來越多那你跟我講說你2026年足以得以在這個職災的幾戶項目可以去降低下來"},{"start":952.418,"end":959.069,"text":"那顯然之前在委員會討論過的然後你們對委員會做的承諾基本上是很難達成這樣的目標"},{"start":961.341,"end":988.087,"text":"跟委員報告 確實我們整個子彈卡的目標在往上提升今年希望達到 拿到子彈卡達到30萬人那目前移工取得這個子彈卡是將近1萬人 9000多人我們今年會設一個目標讓移工 更多的移工取得這個子彈卡的訓練子彈卡處理是一件事情嘛 對那剛剛我特別提到嘛 如果說你們在很多學校開的班期的數額是越來越少"},{"start":991.644,"end":1014.031,"text":"會不會有相對的我們現在希望能夠讓職安卡可以被適用跟來參與職安卡訓練的人這個人數可以再增加所以相關的這個訓練的資源或者是課程的資源也是必然一定會增加的那不然你可以簡單答我就以2026年對照2025年你們是增加幾%以上"},{"start":1019.245,"end":1046.419,"text":"跟委員報告喔委員如果是針對移工的這個教育訓練的部分其實移工本身目前在從事像堆高機或是起重機的一些吊掛他這個班次是不斷在增加因為產業有需求的話我們的這個班次就會在增加不是啊 市長你要答覆我應該是用比較精準的說我嘛一直在增加 不斷的增加今年對照2025是增加幾%"},{"start":1048.431,"end":1064.722,"text":"2025年對照2024年增加幾%你的不斷增加是每年增加一般每年增加訓練的40個人那也叫做增加 那也叫不斷增加第一個跟委員說明齁這個部分我想我們相關的課程課程數一定會增加那我會請"},{"start":1066.343,"end":1094.63,"text":"我們責任署那尤其是因為針對移工的部分可能要特別顧及他的語言的需求這部分我們要來規劃這個一樣是增加的能量來去處理這個問題因為的確我們現在看到在尤其是在營造你到現在沒辦法回答我說你們如何增加嘛人增加的那個設定的目標你們都不清不楚嘛那你怎麼有辦法打呼我說你們主人在增加持續的在增加不斷的在增加你們的增加是在心理增加心理建設增加你們個人的增加"},{"start":1095.45,"end":1112.942,"text":"而不是實際上你們在處理的這個政策上的一個真正的班級數增加 師資增加然後來參與的 雇主願意投入 鼓勵我們這些勞工來參與這樣的一個課程還是政府去鼓勵都可以看到顯著增加的數額"},{"start":1114.251,"end":1126.021,"text":"你答覆我應該是這個樣子才對啊你就連這個沒辦法沒辦法給我答不對啊那顯然你現在是在某個角度是在虛隱了視對我是算是不好的這樣的回應我不好意思講說你在欺騙我我講這樣不曉得是傷到你還是傷到我"},{"start":1136.001,"end":1138.222,"text":"我就用2026來對照2025對照2024你們增加怎麼樣的一個看你要用什麼統計數據來回應我啊來回應這一則的報導啊來回應民團判開課可以降低自災風險啊我只要求一個數據嘛你最起碼數據給我嘛"},{"start":1154.539,"end":1169.712,"text":"跟委員報告,如果以剛剛講的資產卡訓練,我們今年達到30萬那去年呢?今年就達到30萬?不不不,今年度不要達到30萬,明年要到40萬然後我們三年內要達到50萬好,這是資產卡的部分,資產卡的部分就30萬、40萬、50萬,那這個之前沒有嘛,對不對?"},{"start":1175.357,"end":1199.062,"text":"之前的這個剛剛部長有提到我們之前辦的這個規模沒那麼大所以我們現在把他設目標就是我們過去幾年是沒有這麼大啦我知道你沒有這麼大的時候當時是多少嘛大概在去年大概22萬而已22萬所以你今年希望多增加8萬增加8萬嘛那再來每年再增加10萬嘛對3年到50萬那這個增加也不算是很"},{"start":1204.127,"end":1225.854,"text":"怎麼講就每年等於是增加30%是這樣其實按照這個增加幅度的話其實基本上是三年要翻倍要是現在的翻倍那我資安卡的制度其實其實已經蠻長的時間所以等於是在接下來三年的推動裡面要是過去長時間可能目前才累積到大概22萬在三年內就希望把這個數字給翻倍"},{"start":1227.042,"end":1253.911,"text":"好 這部長講的嘛我想教育部提供學校施肢嘛勞動部提供獎勵誘因鼓勵仲介雇主引入義工錢先送去學校進行相關的培訓課程嘛然後透過這個課程義工部長會學習到未來這個整個職場上需要的職能同時也更有完整的這樣的一個職安的一個觀念嘛那降低這個職災的一個風險我想這是一個三明的一個政策啊"},{"start":1255.359,"end":1255.5,"text":"這沒有錯吧?"},{"start":1258.303,"end":1285.34,"text":"所以剛剛部長答覆我的還有部長答覆我的相關的這個數據是不是提供給委員會那我們再來檢視我們把資安卡希望能夠提高的這個逐年目標的數據我們可以提供給委員會好那如果現在已經有相關的學校都想要積極來配合應該我們勞動部跟教育部這邊勞動部應該可以主動來做好這樣的一個聯繫甚至於相關的一些建制應該可以吧"},{"start":1285.52,"end":1309.315,"text":"我們其實主要現在應該會是要跟產業界包括跟營造業界來做合作那當然有更多其他部會運起來也是好事但主要我們會是跟產業的目前產業的工協會來合作我請市長補助就責成我們這個勞工署一個月內就召集一個禮拜一個月內就召集勞動部還有教育部相關的來進行這個相關政策來處理好不好可以吧"},{"start":1309.975,"end":1324.08,"text":"那個跟委員說明第一個因為涉及到移工的職安目前還是由職安署這邊來處理那我們會請職安署來找發展署那跟其他可能需要的部會跟財產團一起來做討論是就一個禮拜內可以啦"},{"start":1325.7,"end":1345.229,"text":"兩個禮拜好不好?兩個禮拜?因為署長說可以,你為什麼一直要幫他?他就說一個月啦!他說一個月,我說兩個禮拜啦!署長講一個月,部長講兩個禮拜這顯然部長跟署長之間有某種程度的不太有默契有可能需要業批一下兩禮拜啦!不斷在說啦!謝謝!謝謝林政府委員的發言,也謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:12.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:12.413000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:12.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:13.954000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（王委員正旭代）","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:13.954000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:14.654000+08:00","text":"有請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:14.654000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:24.120000+08:00","text":"劉委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:24.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:24.220000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:24.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:35.566000+08:00","text":"我們一起恭迎王正旭委員代理主席，大家有默契，希望把洪部長留在委員會一起共用午餐。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:37.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:43.011000+08:00","text":"部長知道立法院最關注EAP的是哪一個委員嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:43.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:47.614000+08:00","text":"劉建國委員。謝謝！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:47.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:50.416000+08:00","text":"那最應該關心EAP制度落實的應該是哪一個政府單位？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:55.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:36:56.708000+08:00","text":"對勞動部而言應該是很重要的。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:36:57.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:00.189000+08:00","text":"是貴部，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:00.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:04.872000+08:00","text":"請問部長你們自問有做到嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:05.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:07.913000+08:00","text":"可以請委員提供給我們更多哪些地方應該改善的意見。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:08.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:14.016000+08:00","text":"你不針對問題回應沒關係，我們就一項一項來，希望等一下你的午餐可以用得很順暢。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:15.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:25.741000+08:00","text":"員工協助方案就是要照顧勞工的方方面面，協助解決各種問題，其中以身心諮詢、壓力排除最為關鍵。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:26.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:30.464000+08:00","text":"我要感謝召委召開今天這個會議，雖然他已經離開會場，但還是要感謝，也謝謝王正旭委員。","quality":0.432},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:33.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:37:46.358000+08:00","text":"今天是「防制強迫勞動與公平招募：臺灣移工制度接軌國際人權與供應鏈治理」的專報，但是勞動部對移工的身心健康有照顧到嗎？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:37:47.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:38:02.937000+08:00","text":"我先給部長看一則報導，報導者描述為何有近七成的移工陷入失語的壓力，然後身體健康亮起紅燈。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:38:13.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:38:21.599000+08:00","text":"我對報導者相關的一些報導一直以來都非常重視，因為他們這些記者基本上都是非常的深入，也非常用心。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:38:23.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:38:45.967000+08:00","text":"請大家想一下，因為語言、文化的先天隔閡，東南亞移工在抵臺工作初期，因語言與適應新環境而累積的情緒，都曾讓他們體驗過「失語」的滋味，無人可訴說煩惱與來自雇主的壓力，常成為壓垮移工的稻草，在過去三十餘年間，不少憾事便由失語衍生。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:38:47.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:06.121000+08:00","text":"根據勵馨基金會移住者服務中心的調查，近七成移工處於壓力環境，臺大醫學院多名精神科醫師也研究發現，超過四成以上看護工有睡眠的困擾，然後進一步影響到心理的健康。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:09.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:11.268000+08:00","text":"部長知道這些報導嗎？有。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:12.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:35.458000+08:00","text":"再根據勵馨基金會在三年多前，即2022年對531名移工發起的「移工勞動現況及心理健康調查」，處於壓力環境的已高達67.4%，處於極高壓力的則來到14.3%，需要專業人員的諮商或協助。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:36.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:43.265000+08:00","text":"五百多人的樣本呈現出這樣的結果是非常驚人的！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:44.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:39:49.127000+08:00","text":"其中又以看護工遭遇的情緒困擾比例高於產業移工！","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:39:49.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:05.592000+08:00","text":"這其實也不難想像，看護工必須24小時陪伴在照顧者身旁，同吃同住，在一般家屬都受不了的情況之下，唯留移工面對這樣的困境，他要如何尋求協助？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:08.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:29.659000+08:00","text":"請部長看看這張投影片，這是勞發署在外國人勞動權益網上提供的相關資訊，不止有中文版，更翻譯成英文、印尼文、泰文和越南文4種外語版本，部長知道這一張圖有什麼樣的問題嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:35.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:37.838000+08:00","text":"看起來幾個國家的語言都有在上面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:38.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:39.780000+08:00","text":"除此之外，還有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:41.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:54.661000+08:00","text":"我認為如果移工打1955專線，若1955直接接到相關EAP系統的話，其實在語言協助上可能還是會有些阻礙。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:54.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:40:55.862000+08:00","text":"部長講到了部分。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:40:57.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:02.985000+08:00","text":"你們的網站上寫1925是安心專線，生命線是1955，部長剛剛只提到1955，張老師是1980。","quality":0.519},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:06.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:08.547000+08:00","text":"就誠如部長剛剛所講，如需通譯服務可洽1955專線來尋求協助。","quality":0.542},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:09.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:37.381000+08:00","text":"我辦公室幫部長打了，也電話求證過了，但不論是生命線的1955還是張老師的1980，都沒有對應移工的專門服務；若要諮詢，移工仍然需要用中文跟對接人對談。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:37.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:46.727000+08:00","text":"至於衛福部的1925專線，僅在上班時間提供英語服務，所以1955到底是什麼電話？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:46.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:49.088000+08:00","text":"移工專線嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:49.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:41:55.809000+08:00","text":"移工如果有權益上問題的話，打1955可以得到語言上面的協助。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:41:56.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:09.892000+08:00","text":"可是的確就像委員說的，包括生命線的1995或是張老師的1980，對於目前移工所比較熟悉的這些東南亞國家的語言，其實可能的確還是需要多一點的協助。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:11.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:19.222000+08:00","text":"顯然部長也知道問題所在，還是需要多點協助，我們已經做了三十多年了，怎麼還會是這個樣子？","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:19.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:34.716000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們接下來會請發展署針對移工在臺灣各種可能需要語言協助的情境，做一輪盤點跟整體的檢討。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:35.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:43.342000+08:00","text":"委員現在講的可能是他心理諮詢或者是心理上需要專業輔導的部分，這當然會是其中一個情境。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:44.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:42:56.168000+08:00","text":"我們接下來也有想要找包括臺灣的雇主、包括NGO、包括各個相關的團體，希望能夠來盤點大家需要語言的情境。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:42:57.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:43:05.292000+08:00","text":"可能各種不同語言的情境需要各種不同的方案，有些是需要人，有些部分是需要一些介面翻譯的資源，這些其實都有可能。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:43:05.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:43:15.315000+08:00","text":"所以我們接下來想要針對移工語言需求的部分做一個整體性的檢討，當然委員現在提到的部分應該也是我們要檢討的情況之一。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:43:16.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:43:24.538000+08:00","text":"部長，我們引進外籍看護工已經有三十多年，螢幕上現在出現的這張圖卡也是我們勞動部勞發署製作的。","quality":0.674},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:43:26.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:03.204000+08:00","text":"我們今天的主題是「臺灣移工制度接軌國際人權」，但我們連一個基本的諮商、心理上的協助都這麼樣的卡卡，三十多年了還是如此，我們如果要再請生命線張老師對外部的這個1925提供協助，但是提出資源進行相關的合作也可能還需要有一段時間的磨合，對不對？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:03.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:05.685000+08:00","text":"現在其實有三方通譯的服務，但是在……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:06.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:07.325000+08:00","text":"三方通譯在哪裡？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:09.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:11.086000+08:00","text":"要打哪一支電話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:11.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:19.508000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果是打1955的話，我們也可以幫他再接到1995或者是1925，或者是1925要……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:19.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:20.108000+08:00","text":"要間接嘛。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:21.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:24.850000+08:00","text":"對，他必須再打過來我們的1955，那我們就可以三方通話。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:25.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:27.410000+08:00","text":"署長你自己有打過嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:27.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:28.811000+08:00","text":"我沒有打過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:28.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:29.451000+08:00","text":"你要不要試看看？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:30.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:30.732000+08:00","text":"如何間接？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:30.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:32.294000+08:00","text":"是斷機還是間接？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:32.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:32.774000+08:00","text":"還是不接？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:33.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:33.795000+08:00","text":"還是接一半？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:33.795000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:34.795000+08:00","text":"剛剛跟委員說過，我覺得我們現有的資源跟制度……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:33.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:35.657000+08:00","text":"部長你不要急著幫署長回應，因為署長剛上任沒多久，我們先把問題挑出來，好好的面對來做處理。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:35.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:44:40.061000+08:00","text":"所以當你要答復的時候，你應該要相當有把握地表示這是可以間接的、順暢的，應該沒有多大的問題。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:44:55.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:07.561000+08:00","text":"你可以很兇、很清楚的回答委員會、回答我說這個已經過一段時間，基本上當然還有微調和修正的空間，不過應該是順暢的，但是你們答不出來，對不對？","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:07.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:08.261000+08:00","text":"你們答不出來啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:11.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:45:53.745000+08:00","text":"我剛剛就跟你說我已經幫你們打過了，我不是要去吐槽你們，不過如果到現在這些相關的專線都還存在這樣的問題，而且你們知道問題之所在，然後一直到現在沒辦法處理，那今天開這個會的主題，我覺得就有一點……所以我是希望這樣，要提出資源，跟衛福部跟生命線進行合作，移工如果需要輔導，就直接打1995、1955、1980這些專線，不然你的海報圖檔做成這樣，叫人家打電話去，結果根本沒有辦法提供移工的母語服務，我覺得這樣很不好。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:45:54.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:06.567000+08:00","text":"萬一有外籍移工當時正處於生命垂危的邊緣，發生了這樣的狀況……我們對這部分有沒有做過相關統計？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:06.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:07.127000+08:00","text":"我想沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:08.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:14.034000+08:00","text":"那你這個專線存在的實質意義何在？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:14.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:21.647000+08:00","text":"我是覺得我們現在有新部長也有新署長了，要不要針對這些專線好好做個檢視？","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:21.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:27.850000+08:00","text":"我們可以來檢討整個通譯服務的接通跟接軌的機制，這部分我們要來檢討。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:30.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:33.452000+08:00","text":"應該兩個禮拜就可以把這樣的檢討提出來給我們做參考吧！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:33.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:34.092000+08:00","text":"可不可以一個月？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:35.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:46:43.597000+08:00","text":"一個月，還有一些相關的修正和可以實質上真正的對接，間接、轉接都可以啦！","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:46:44.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:00.613000+08:00","text":"另外，我也請部長思考一下，EAP不應該專屬於大公司、大企業的福利，現在各部會的總預算還沒有審查，到時候我們也會針對各部會、還有相關的申請機關好好檢視EAP的執行狀況。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:01.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:18.376000+08:00","text":"其實對民間來講，不管是大公司還是大企業的福利，微小企業、辦公室、小店家，甚至於像家庭看護工，身處在這些職場的勞工也需要EAP，勞動部應該如何來統整資源，然後提供一個全國性的勞工都可以使用的EAP？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:19.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:24.579000+08:00","text":"我想這絕對是一個福國利民的政策，請部長帶回去細心的研究。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:24.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:25.079000+08:00","text":"我們就一併來檢討。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:25.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:25.500000+08:00","text":"一樣給一個月時間，好不好？好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:26.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:47:53.422000+08:00","text":"再來請部長看第二題，就是「移工職前的教育訓練，86%投入3K產業，民團開課盼降低職災風險」，我們已經通過職安法，怎麼現在還會積極的想要做這樣的訴求？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:47:54.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:24.766000+08:00","text":"圖表上的是113年的統計，但我昨天還接到某個大學、還有產業界一些重要人士對我提出這樣一個現狀，以及他們的殷殷期盼，希望整個外籍移工，不管是中階還是高階的專責技術人員，在臺灣職場上可以得到更多更好的保障，這個職前教育就相對的重要。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:29.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:30.069000+08:00","text":"部長怎麼看待這個事情？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:31.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:48:54.134000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，其實現在職災比較高的還是在營造業，營造業現在是有開放移工，我們在現在整體的減災計畫裡面，其實也針對營造業在討論，因為有很多安全防護的資訊，其實營造業現場不一定都有提供這些移工母國語言版本。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:48:54.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:06.940000+08:00","text":"所以在這些資訊的提供方面，包括現場機具的使用或者是一些可能有危害的示警上，其實也要讓移工可以有所瞭解，這部分我們也要來做。","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:07.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:20.226000+08:00","text":"另外一方面，在針對營造業減災的部分，我們也會針對職安卡的部分來去擴大推動，其中有部分會是針對移工，尤其是對於移工的話會有各項語言。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:21.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:36.333000+08:00","text":"在我們去年底公布的減災計畫裡面，職安卡要更大幅度的由政府這邊來去協助推動，我們當然也有跟營造業討論會推動的機制，而移工部分的職災就會是其中一個很重要的環節。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:38.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:42.986000+08:00","text":"什麼時候開始做這樣一個更積極的因應跟作為？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:42.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:43.507000+08:00","text":"今年開始。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:44.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:46.809000+08:00","text":"今年開始？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:47.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:47.710000+08:00","text":"今年第一季剛過，對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:47.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:48.470000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有對照？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:49.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:49:50.212000+08:00","text":"這個報導是2024年的，2025年的出來沒有？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:49:50.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:50:33.040000+08:00","text":"我跟部長與署長講一個數據，2024年移工職災給付案件有1,532件，其中夾傷、切傷、割傷的計1,069件，占整體的69.7%，是移工最主要的職業災害項目；其他如墜落、跌倒等撞擊傷害占14%；被物品飛落倒塌、壓傷占7.3%；燒、燙傷或是接觸到有害物質等環境傷害占7.5%，署長能不能直接跟部長和委員會說說2025年已經有顯著下降的是哪幾個項目？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:50:33.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:50:34.061000+08:00","text":"減少了幾趴？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:50:34.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:50:36.661000+08:00","text":"有沒有把握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:50:37.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:01.790000+08:00","text":"2025年的資料，勞保局目前還在統計中，但是我跟委員說，我剛剛在講的是其實我們去年下半年有發布一個強化減災的計畫，這個強化減災計畫裡面有27項要做的工作，其中有一個部分就是職安卡的擴大；而職安卡擴大其實就是希望能夠把更多的移工給納進來，這個部分會在今年擴大、開始做。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:03.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:10.619000+08:00","text":"應該是說之前就有職安卡的制度，可是我們希望現在政府要在職安卡的推動裡面承擔起更大的責任，這是從今年開始。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:12.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:38.713000+08:00","text":"承擔起更大的責任不應該是從今年開始，應該早早就開始的，我只是想說用2025來對照2024，其實很多事情我們就可以瞭解問題到底應該怎麼再做一些調整跟修正，我是提醒這點，希望趕快開設職災的相關課程，好降低職災風險。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:40.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:51:43.014000+08:00","text":"我不曉得我們的班是愈開愈多，還是愈開愈少？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:51:43.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:04.069000+08:00","text":"如果你的班愈開愈少，但納進來的人卻愈來愈多，那之前在委員會討論過的，然後你對委員會做的承諾，說是你們2026年得以在幾個職災給付項目予以降低，顯然是很難達成目標。","quality":0.592},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:06.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:24.685000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，確實我們整個職安卡的目標在往上提升，今年希望拿到職安卡的達到30萬人，目前移工取得職安卡的人數是九千多將近1萬人，我們今年也會設一個目標，讓更多的移工取得職安卡的訓練。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:24.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:38.225000+08:00","text":"職安卡的處理是一件事情，我剛剛有特別提到，如果你們在很多學校開的班級數額是愈來愈少，會不會有相對的……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:38.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:53.349000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在希望讓職安卡可以被適用及來參與職安卡訓練的人數可以再增加，所以相關的訓練資源或者是課程資源也必然一定會增加。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:52:54.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:52:59.011000+08:00","text":"部長你可以簡單答復我，就以2026年對照2025年，你們是增加幾趴以上？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:04.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:23.075000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果是針對移工的教育訓練部分，其實目前移工從事像堆高機或是起重機的一些吊掛的班次是不斷在增加的，因為產業有需求的話，我們的班次就會再增加。不是！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:23.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:28.397000+08:00","text":"署長你的答復應該是用比較精準的說法，不是一直說在增加、不斷的增加！","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:29.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:40.196000+08:00","text":"而是要說今年對照2025年是增加幾趴，2025對照2024又是增加幾趴，你的「不斷增加」是每年增加一班，還是每年增加訓練了40個人？","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:40.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:42.678000+08:00","text":"那也是不斷增加啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:44.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:53:59.945000+08:00","text":"第一個要跟委員說明的是，我想這個部分相關的課程數一定會增加，因為是針對移工的部分，我會請我們職安署可能要特別顧及他們對語言的需求，這部分我們要來規劃增加能量來處理這個問題。","quality":0.802},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:53:59.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:02.646000+08:00","text":"因為的確我們現在看到在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:04.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:15.189000+08:00","text":"所以部長到現在也沒辦法回答我說你們如何增加，連增加設定的目標也都不清不楚，那你怎麼有辦法答復我說你們逐年在增加、持續的在增加、不斷的在增加？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:15.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:25.994000+08:00","text":"你們的增加是在心裡增加、心理建設增加、你們個人的增加，而不是實際上處理這個政策上的真正的班級數增加、師資增加。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:28.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:41.413000+08:00","text":"是雇主願意投入鼓勵我們這些勞工參與這樣的一個課程，還是政府去鼓勵都可以看到顯著增加的數額，你的答復應該是這個樣子才對啊！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:41.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:47.958000+08:00","text":"現在你連這個都沒辦法、沒把握答復我，就某個角度來看，你現在顯然是在虛應了事，這樣對我算是不好的回應。","quality":0.578},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:54:47.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:54:51.001000+08:00","text":"我不好意思說你是在欺騙我，我講這樣不曉得是傷到你還是傷到我。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:01.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:01.641000+08:00","text":"我就是用2026對照2025、對照2024，你們的增加是怎麼樣，看你要用什麼統計數據來回應我啊！","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:01.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:01.882000+08:00","text":"來回應這一則報導啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:01.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:02.222000+08:00","text":"來回應民團期盼的開課，可以降低職災風險啊！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:02.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:03.202000+08:00","text":"我只要求一個數據，最起碼你要給我數據嘛！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:19.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:24.744000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果以剛剛講的職安卡訓練來看，我們今年達到30萬。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:24.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:25.625000+08:00","text":"那去年呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:26.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:27.446000+08:00","text":"今年就達到30萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:28.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:32.210000+08:00","text":"是今年的目標達到30萬，明年要到40萬，然後3年內要達到50萬。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:32.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:34.032000+08:00","text":"就是職安卡的部分是30萬、40萬、50萬？是。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:34.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:34.712000+08:00","text":"在這個之前沒有嘛，對不對？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:41.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:50.039000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長有提到，我們之前辦的規模沒那麼大，所以我們現在把它設目標，就是我們估計過去幾年……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:50.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:53.380000+08:00","text":"你說規模沒有這麼大，那當時是多少？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:55.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:55:58.701000+08:00","text":"去年大概22萬而已。22萬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:55:58.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:02.362000+08:00","text":"所以你今年希望多增加8萬，接下來每年再增加10萬？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林署長毓堂","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:02.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:02.982000+08:00","text":"對，3年到50萬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:09.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:13.188000+08:00","text":"等於每年增加30%，是這樣吧？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:13.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:18.230000+08:00","text":"其實按照這個增加幅度的話，基本上是3年要翻倍，是現在的翻倍。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:19.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:30.834000+08:00","text":"我們職安卡的制度其實已經施行滿長的時間，過去長時間累積到目前才大概22萬，所以等於是希望在接下來3年的推動下把這個數字給翻倍。","quality":0.614},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:32.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:32.942000+08:00","text":"好，這是部長講的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:33.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:56:42.185000+08:00","text":"我想教育部提供學校師資，勞動部提供獎勵誘因，鼓勵仲介、雇主引入移工前，先送去學校進行相關的培訓課程。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:56:43.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:00.480000+08:00","text":"然後透過這個課程，移工不僅會學習到未來整個職場上需要的職能，同時也更有完整的職安觀念，降低職災的風險，我想這是一個3年的政策，沒有錯吧？是啊！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:04.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:12.229000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長和署長答復我的相關數據，是不是提供給委員會，我們再來檢視？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:12.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:17.272000+08:00","text":"我們可以把職安卡希望逐年能夠提高的目標數據提供給委員會。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:18.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:30.320000+08:00","text":"如果現在已經有相關的學校都想要積極來配合，勞動部這邊應該可以主動來跟教育部做好這樣的聯繫，甚至是相關的一些建置，應該可以吧？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:30.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:42.407000+08:00","text":"其實我們現在應該主要會是跟產業界，包括營造業界來做合作，當然若有更多其他部會一起來也是好事，但我們主要會是跟目前產業的公協會來合作。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:43.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:53.654000+08:00","text":"我請部長責成勞發署，於一個禮拜內就召集勞動部還有教育部相關的單位來進行相關政策的處理，好不好？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:54.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:57:54.295000+08:00","text":"可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:57:55.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:07.899000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，因為這涉及到移工的職安，目前還是由職安署這邊來處理，我們會請職安署來找發展署跟其他可能需要的部會跟產業團體一起來做討論。對啊！","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:08.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:09.060000+08:00","text":"那就一個禮拜內，可以啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:10.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:11.361000+08:00","text":"兩個禮拜好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:12.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:14.562000+08:00","text":"署長說可以，你為什麼一直要幫他？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:15.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:16.203000+08:00","text":"他說一個月啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:17.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:18.264000+08:00","text":"我說兩個禮拜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:18.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:29.549000+08:00","text":"署長講一個月，部長講兩個禮拜，顯然部長跟署長之間某種程度上不太有默契，有可能需要EAP一下，那就如部長說的兩個禮拜。謝謝！","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:29.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:29.549000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:29.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:30.229000+08:00","text":"謝謝劉建國委員的發言，也謝謝部長的答詢。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-09T12:58:30.729000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-09T12:58:33.871857+08:00","text":"現在我們請陳瑩委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}