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欢迎订阅"},{"start":1804.93,"end":1815.024,"text":"報告委員會初期委員14人已足法定人數我們現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1817.045,"end":1843.16,"text":"立法院第十一屆第三會期教育及文化交通委員會第二次聯席會議議事錄時間中華民國一四年六月十一日上午九十一分至十二時二十七分地點本院前線樓101會議室出席委員黃孟楷委員等三十人列席委員林德福委員等十一人列席人員國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳承文率同有關人員數位發展部部長黃燕蘭率同有關人員主席葛昭吉委員如均"},{"start":1844.739,"end":1862.641,"text":"報告事項 宣讀上次會議事錄決定議事錄確定討論事項 一 繼續審查委員葛如軍等37人擬具人工智慧基本法草案案等7案二 審查委員邱毅英等20人擬具人工智慧基本法草案案等7案"},{"start":1863.962,"end":1885.049,"text":"決議一對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料後未及答覆部分請相關機關監事委順便答覆二人工智慧基本法草案相關草案令定期繼續審查請數位發展部於一一四年七月十五日以前提出不版建議條文並於一一四年七月二十一日當週排審審查結果如下"},{"start":1886.601,"end":1902.22,"text":"委員葛如君等三七人提案名稱第一條至第十一條含對應之各提案條文委員賴世寶等二十八人提案第一章至第三章章名台灣民眾黨黨團提案第一章至第二章章名軍戰保留"},{"start":1903.661,"end":1923.226,"text":"3.委員班美玲提出書面資料一份4.本次會議議事錄授權主席確認後及上傳立法院全球資訊網公開通過提案一項宣讀完畢好請問各位委員上次會議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處好應該沒有"},{"start":1931.467,"end":1932.095,"text":"有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1935.566,"end":1960.761,"text":"好沒有的話我們就議事錄確定好那我們今天的議程呢是繼續審查人工智慧基本法草案相關草案共14案有委員葛如君等37人委員邱若驊等17人委員羅廷偉等17人委員萬美玲等18人委員徐宇珍等20人委員張家俊等21人委員林倩琦等23人"},{"start":1962.142,"end":1967.768,"text":"委員邱毅英等20人委員吳宗憲等17人委員賴士寶等28人委員楊瓊英等26人台灣民眾黨黨團委員許志傑等27人委員林怡瑾等26人"},{"start":1979.139,"end":2006.48,"text":"同時也審查人工智慧基本法草案的相關草案有共5案委員張雅玲等18人委員謝一鳳等17人委員陳秀寶等25人委員林思明等17人委員范雲等18人那我們首先介紹在場委員其次介紹與會官員我們先介紹范雲委員"},{"start":2009.591,"end":2036.545,"text":"劉淑冰委員柯之恩委員李瑾 趙偉陳秀寶委員郭玉琴委員張雅琳委員吳立華委員林佩祥委員謝榮介委員萬美玲委員好那我們介紹與會官員"},{"start":2039.739,"end":2058.19,"text":"國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳承文主委副主委陳秉宇陳副主委也有都會列席的同仁還有數位發展部政務次長林怡靜政務次長謝謝"},{"start":2060.146,"end":2066.988,"text":"數位策略師師長蔡壽泉師長蔡師長謝謝資料創新師師師長莊明芬莊師長謝謝數位政府司副師長楊耿瑜楊副師長謝謝法治處處長張學文張處長謝謝數位產業署副組長鍾嘉榮鍾副組長謝謝"},{"start":2082.492,"end":2099.058,"text":"教育部資科師資訊級科技教育師師長吳穎田師長謝謝那教育部也有多位列席非常感謝那行政院教育科學文化處參議劉家祐參議謝謝財政部複稅署專門委員劉旭峰劉專委謝謝法務部參事汪南君參事汪參事謝謝經濟部產業技術師檢任記證戴建成謝謝"},{"start":2112.81,"end":2136.84,"text":"智慧財產局組長洪聖義 洪組長中小級新創企業署專門委員陳佩君 陳專委標準檢驗局檢任基政鄭乃源 鄭檢任基政 謝謝勞動部綜合規劃師專門委員林永玉 林專委 謝謝那勞動部也有多位同仁參與 謝謝文化部綜合規劃師副司長陳怡靜"},{"start":2140.161,"end":2157.734,"text":"陳副司長謝謝行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處專門委員林嘉惠林專委以及主編人力處專門委員曾永芳曾專委以及個人資料保護委員會籌備處隱私科技組組長林益成林組長謝謝"},{"start":2160.387,"end":2171.55,"text":"考選部綜合規劃師專門委員黃于儒謝謝黃專委還有高普考試師專門委員楊文怡楊專委權敘部法規師專門委員黃家慧黃專委國家發展委員會法治協調處檢認視察林興文行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員吳明修吳專委"},{"start":2195.78,"end":2202.568,"text":"謝謝大家的參與本案已於114年5月14日詢答完畢並且於6月11日進行逐條審查我們在6月11日進行逐條審查的會議之後"},{"start":2212.419,"end":2227.134,"text":"我們有這個要求這個相關的草案令定期繼續審查同時也請數位發展部於114年7月15日以前提出不版建議條文並且定於後續來排審"},{"start":2232.595,"end":2246.966,"text":"不過我們看到在7月15號的時候數位發展部發函來說提供的資料結果提供的是說明的意見而已完全沒有佈板的條文"},{"start":2247.907,"end":2264.274,"text":"那我们也就在这个文化教育级文化委员会我们也就在7月29号的时候我们发文请数位发展部在8月1号星期五下午5点以前希望能提供布版的条文"},{"start":2265.714,"end":2285.967,"text":"那最後我們是在8月1號又收得數位發展部的函呢完全再次的沒有提供再次沒有提供那我們一樣到今天已經是8月4號的早上9點08分我們尚未收到"},{"start":2287.245,"end":2305.147,"text":"數位發展部的人工智慧基本法草案的建議條文所以到現在我們的行政院除了去年10月國科會曾經一約提出預告版的草案條文但是之後又被收回"},{"start":2306.294,"end":2319.641,"text":"主管機關由行政院單方面的希望轉交速發布而過程當中我們也都看到了那我們在8月1號也善盡提醒之責請速發布在8月1號"},{"start":2321.232,"end":2341.428,"text":"下午應該說我們7月29號的時候發文那希望8月1號下午以前呢能夠提供這個草案的布版條文那速發部在8月1號發文回文呢說經考量人工智慧事務涉及跨部會領域人建議這個等"},{"start":2345.12,"end":2366.675,"text":"行政院版本條文送到大院後再行並各委員版本進行審議所以意思就是速發部請我們等行政院行政院希望我們等速發部速發部再請我們等行政院大概這樣一個概念所以我想這個今天"},{"start":2368.154,"end":2380.557,"text":"我們也謝謝非常多位委員我們跨黨派的也都希望能夠有推進所以我想相關的情勢我們剛才就簡略的做個說明"},{"start":2381.926,"end":2398.38,"text":"那我們今天在這個條文審議上面我們也新增委員張雅玲等五個提案版本那不再進行詢答那有沒有提案委員要進行說明的那我們有五個新的新增提案"},{"start":2399.315,"end":2411.233,"text":"那有張雅琳委員等18人謝依鳳委員等17人陳秀寶委員等25人林思明委員等17人蔡英文委員等18人有沒有要進行提案說明"},{"start":2412.321,"end":2432.094,"text":"如果沒有的話我們就併入本次共同審查委員如果有臨時提案請於上午10點30分前提出處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理我們現在審查人工智慧基本法草案相關草案進行逐條審查並進行討論與協商討論時如有新增修正動議請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":2562.322,"end":2585.177,"text":"好謝謝我們與會官員跟所有的委員那我們上一次呢審查到第11條那前面是以保留的那我們今天先從第12條接續的進行討論那我們今天呢有這個新增加的修正動議應該也都有應待各位的手上了"},{"start":2585.777,"end":2607.632,"text":"那這個國務卿委員等提案的條文那這份條文呢是統整了十幾份這個跨黨派委員的版本啦所以可以說是一個兼容並蓄的概念那同時第12條呢也有林議警委員提案的這個版本修正動議"},{"start":2609.053,"end":2625.667,"text":"那我們就從第12條來開始進行討論那在這個我們這個非常感謝教育及文化委員會有編制這份條文對照表那這個頁次呢大家可以翻到第189頁189頁大本的 對"},{"start":2638.473,"end":2639.087,"text":"呃"},{"start":2639.933,"end":2662.202,"text":"這一份呢因為這個葛如君委員的版本呢後續還有提一份新的那新的呢我們也有投影出來大家可以在螢幕上也可以看到那但是其他委員的版本呢也都由教文委員會這裡有幫忙整理出來那以及第12條我們有林一錦召委所提出的修正動議好那我們就針對第12條大家有沒有意見"},{"start":2671.206,"end":2684.504,"text":"好 我們給大家一點時間 謝謝是是 對 這個我簡要說明齁 就是"},{"start":2686.58,"end":2714.758,"text":"葛如君委員今天的這個修正動議有參採6月11號在逐條審查的時候跨黨派的委員所提出的各項建議包含各種不同的版本那所以像第12條呢原先葛如君委員的版本也就是我這邊的版本呢是用國家但是我們現在就統一就用使用政府來做這個一致性好那這條好謝謝"},{"start":2716.741,"end":2735.8,"text":"柯志恩委員不好意思我覺得我剛剛看了一下我現在立即請他們簽名我覺得我要提出一個修正動議因為我個人覺得這個部分除了訂立這個補助的評估準則跟公開審查的機制之外我覺得這整個的要把它整個法規要讓它更完整化"},{"start":2736.621,"end":2751.928,"text":"我個人認為應該還是要在設立一個年度成效的報告的一個制度然後文字會馬上出來因為我個人認為說你要確保資源運用的這個效能那中央主管機關除了這個定力這個補助跟投資的評估準則"},{"start":2753.269,"end":2778.962,"text":"还要建构这个公平公开的这个审查的机度而且最重要是你要设立这个执行承受的报告制度因为你还是要定期对外来公布相关的成果跟评估的一个意见这样才有办法作为政策持续推动完全不违反这个利益的条件但是它让它整个的条文上面更去完整化既然要修的话我个人认为是否也可以做这样的一个处理我现在请他们马上把它"},{"start":2779.462,"end":2783.303,"text":"那謝謝柯志榮委員還有沒有委員有相關意見那有沒有委員要發言的"},{"start":2808.905,"end":2828.6,"text":"或是部會這邊有沒有意見好范議員謝謝因為還沒看到柯基恩委員的文字就是聽起來是一個合理的訴求那現在就是說體力上就是要不要這麼細那是不是可以請那個數發部這邊表達一下意見好嗎好那也謝謝數發部林益進次長那個"},{"start":2838.57,"end":2839.17,"text":"OK 好"},{"start":2865.947,"end":2866.588,"text":"柯委員提出的修正動議"},{"start":2884.85,"end":2901.616,"text":"那個柯委員提出的這些修正動議原則上都會沒有什麼反對但是這個本來就是各部會應該做的事情這個我們本來就會做喂喂喂我這先可以OK"},{"start":2907.267,"end":2909.651,"text":"感謝柯委員提出來的這些修正動議"},{"start":2918.591,"end":2945.952,"text":"非常感謝柯委員提出這些建議原則上我們並不反對這些想法但是這個本來就是各部會會做的事情而人工智慧基本法應該是一個基本的政策的法令我覺得我們是認為說這個可能不需要把它列到基本法裡面這個本來就是我們各部會會進行的事情謝謝"},{"start":2955.182,"end":2969.999,"text":"好那我們看一下我們現在第12條那個第12條現在這一條也不是我們那個修正版的啊我們是政府然後還有對我有稍微改過了"},{"start":2974.794,"end":3003.974,"text":"我个人觉得你虽然说这都是各部位该做的但是整个基本法就是上位大法把它制定得更加的清楚特别是你回到刚刚用红字写的那个部分你们刚才打上去了你看它这个部分里面还是再一次的强调既然是个上位大法里面基本上再一次的强调公平公正的审核机制而且最重要是你要定期对外公布的成果的评估意见这个不是各部位有些时候你没有定的话"},{"start":3004.774,"end":3026.6,"text":"就像你开会一样有些时候一个一年说要开会一次连一年开会一次都做不到你这明文规定在那个地方只是让各部会能够更有具体的行动出来所以如果可以的话我个人认为即使是各部会都该做的把它明文规定出来的话应该不违反只要不违反这个体力的话应该把它放上去更符合它这个大家未来可以遵照的一个标准吧好那还有没有委员好 刘苏冰委员谢谢"},{"start":3033.235,"end":3043.521,"text":"今天審查的這個第十二條呢是對應到本黨民眾黨的第六跟第七條那本黨是特別重視到"},{"start":3045.854,"end":3062.799,"text":"AI基本法裡面的AI發展的促進所以我們認為說這個裁員上面應該要有一定的部分所以本黨是主張說這樣國家發展基金應該提撥一定比例的部分不然的話這個沒有這些保障的話也許會根據自己的"},{"start":3064.559,"end":3082.828,"text":"自己政府內部的財務方面做了調整甚至就犧牲掉AI基本法當作說我國未來關鍵產業的部分所以因此本黨是主張說在國家發展基金上應提供一定比例那比例到底是多少就由根據財政狀況來去尊重行政院的決定"},{"start":3084.349,"end":3112.108,"text":"好 謝謝劉淑冰委員萬美玲委員 謝謝好 謝謝昭偉我只是表達一下其實我非常支持那個知恩所提出來的雖然現在回應都說我們會做會做但是如果能夠在條文上面明白的去闡述清楚我覺得它是更有保障 那更清晰所以我是認為我們應該還是要把它條文單位的文字上面大家可以看看怎麼去修正但是我認為應該還是要明列好 謝謝萬美玲委員范瑩委員"},{"start":3114.591,"end":3141.172,"text":"這個民眾黨版本的精神就是上次我們好像就有討論到就是我個人比較是希望是一個基本法那民眾黨那個部分比較偏向一個作用法那我會擔心說現在就提到以這個國發基金一定比例會不會反而限縮了未來政府出資的譬如說更多的彈性或是什麼所以是建議也許不需要放在這因為這個比較是一個基本法"},{"start":3141.832,"end":3166.717,"text":"那柯志恩委員那個部分我覺得精神上我支持但是我是覺得這個能不能縮短一點點因為通常政府的出資都一定都會有自己的一些行政命令嘛那我自己覺得這邊最關鍵的就是那個年度的報告執行報告那個對外公開這個部分如果可以簡化的話放在這兒是不是就比較能夠回到一個基本法的精神以上"},{"start":3173.302,"end":3199.65,"text":"絕對絕對絕對"},{"start":3208.235,"end":3233.946,"text":"那个我是不是可以就这样子就根据范委员的一个建议就是前面都去掉然后就说在你原有的条文之下像你原有条文的这个金融等财政优惠措施并应设置年度执行成效制度报告定期对外公布等等之类的可不可以你后面前面把它删掉就是措施后面就变成并应设置年度"},{"start":3236.394,"end":3254.7,"text":"好 這個滑鼠可不可以 滑鼠能運作嗎從位 你在位那個地方點一下滑鼠左鍵然後拖曳你的滑鼠一路到機制的字那個地方旁邊的逗點然後按一下delete按一下鍵盤的delete 很好 謝謝好"},{"start":3261.897,"end":3282.386,"text":"第12條政府應積極推動人工智慧研發應用及基礎建設妥善規劃資源整體配置並辦理人工智慧相關產業之補助委託出資投資獎勵輔導或提供租稅金融等財政優惠措施"},{"start":3283.146,"end":3309.086,"text":"那前面的政府也謝謝林怡瑾召委的修正動議我們把國家改成政府那後面這一段是柯志恩委員的修正動議並應設置年度執行成效報告制度定期對外公佈相關成果與評估意見以作為政策持續推動與資源調整之依據好 那有沒有委員有意見那如果沒有意見我們就照修正通過謝謝"},{"start":3311.229,"end":3339.04,"text":"那我們接下來第13條我們接下來訂13條那第13條的部分呢是在大本的這一本的第199頁那我們現在一樣可以看上面我們謝謝教文委員會的同仁還有速發部的同仁那我們政府呢這裡應該也是有稍微微幅修改"},{"start":3340.2,"end":3363.649,"text":"我的版本本來是國家但因為我的版本本來有國家政府是有混用的狀況我們都通歷改成政府那大致上呢並沒有太多的調整那有沒有委員針對第13條有意見有沒有建議 第13條這邊許智傑跟我們很多委員的版本是比較簡短的"},{"start":3365.479,"end":3388.037,"text":"因為葛文君委員的版本比較長嘛那我們這邊的版本是希望能夠更精簡一點的後面那些什麼相關法規之解釋與適用如與其他法規漢格等等那這部分我這裡是希望能夠精簡一點啦那不知道葛文君委員可不可以說明一下為什麼後面要這麼的長然後也請述發部這邊表達一下意見好嗎好"},{"start":3391.251,"end":3417.042,"text":"謝謝我想近期我們都有看到人工智慧的創新跟研發其實在台灣有受到一些限制跟影響那在新興技術去做突破的過程當中其實是有可能要去做其他法律的修正那我們也看到在我手上現在有一份"},{"start":3418.513,"end":3442.356,"text":"台灣有四個新創相關的協會在做聯合聲明台灣新創環境與科技法律發展的省思其中就有提到現在我們這個台灣在第三段就有提到台灣積極推動AI產業發展然而如果對新創環境不友善法律框架無法與時俱進"},{"start":3444.077,"end":3472.816,"text":"則可能讓本土優秀的AI人才與技術流失讓台灣國際AI發展的浪潮當中被邊緣化這四個協會有台灣虛擬及擴增實境產業協會有台灣新經濟聯盟協會有台灣網路暨電子商務產業發展協會TIEA有台灣觀光發展策略協會其實有提到這麼多其實就是在於說我們在第四項原則的"},{"start":3473.897,"end":3497.962,"text":"前提之下希望能夠給AI人工智慧的創新跟新創去做其他必要法律的修正以上回應 謝謝那個我自己會蠻擔憂就是說葛國軍委員後面這個就是除非以第四條漢格都應該優先保障啦因為我們很多條都在講那個弱勢啊歧視啊等等那如果這樣這邊給一個"},{"start":3499.982,"end":3525.603,"text":"條文中的特別好像是霸王條款這樣那會不會反而我們一些弱勢我們關心權益隱私這些的條文就變成不重要了所以這會有一點點憂慮因為你說就發展這個部分第12條剛剛通過的精神已經有那這一邊許智傑跟我們一些委員的版本是比較簡潔的那葛國勳委員這邊後面的那個優先保障"},{"start":3528.846,"end":3538.456,"text":"我覺得會有一些衝突所以我個人比較支持許智傑委員跟我們的這些的這個提案好不好 修正動議謝謝主席"},{"start":3546.699,"end":3559.553,"text":"針對這個十三條其實是我個人版本的第十條跟第十七條好 那在法規調適的這一條本席想要針對葛昭偉的版本提出一些想法首先相關法規的調適確實很重要"},{"start":3561.275,"end":3585.684,"text":"但孰先孰後也就是說誰應該優先適用我覺得這個遊戲規則絕對要先講好葛昭惠的版本是相關法規的解釋與適用如與其他法規和格在符合本法第四條基本原則之前理下應優先保障新興技術與服務的提供如果有必要應修正其他法律但是基本法的草案並非特別法"},{"start":3586.164,"end":3604.925,"text":"就是並未排除其他法律那草案的這一條如果賦予了這個新興AI技術發展較高的優先度但若優先保障的範圍過大那可能會導致對現行法律的這個架空甚至會淺害的侵害其他受限法保障的基本權利"},{"start":3605.626,"end":3617.316,"text":"例如說經濟委員會在審查個資法個資法的修正案那如果妨礙了AI的發展那到底是人民的個資比較重要還是AI發展比較重要這點就變成要慎思所以這一條並不是說絕對的帝王條款所以本席認為不應該這樣寫法"},{"start":3623.661,"end":3648.288,"text":"那與其強調AI基本法的特殊性那我覺得不如就加強來解釋如何調整各個主管機關主長的相關的法規當然 葛委員也有提到說要完善法規可是本席認為如果因此就把AI基本法當作最上位法那要求修改其他的法規我覺得這是不大對應該是所有的法規都要相輔相成才是一個健康的觀念以上"},{"start":3649.09,"end":3667.141,"text":"好謝謝還有沒有其他委員有提建議郭育琴委員待會速發部次長可以表達意見這個人工智慧的研發其實應該要沿手兩個原則那第一個原則其實要保障他的創新再來就是要維持他的秩序"},{"start":3667.661,"end":3685.534,"text":"那我在想這一條的部分如果是在不妨害這個新技術發展的這個作為的前提之下那進行必要的一個法規的調適喔然後再由各個目的的事業主管機關去建立創新的一個實驗的環境在一個安全的環境當中去加速發展喔"},{"start":3685.934,"end":3704.563,"text":"那同時也能夠保障這個社會大眾的一個權益我想這個比單純的去強調法規的優先順序跟保障信心技術我想這個可能比較具有一些建設性跟實驗實踐性這個是我的建議以上好謝謝那請林益進次長"},{"start":3707.49,"end":3718.404,"text":"我們速發部這邊認為AI的發展應該是要強調健康的產業生態系的建立而不是在強調政府的輔助與輔助因為軟體產業有個特性"},{"start":3722.85,"end":3738.439,"text":"那個軟體產業的創新與發展大部分都是來自於民間的自由競爭而不是來自於政府的大規模的主導即使我們知道在美國像是Chad GPD, Gemini, Grog, Cloudy等這些AI的"},{"start":3739.119,"end":3766.766,"text":"大的那個LLM其實他都是來自於民間產業那即使在中國大陸這個是中國大陸他一向是相信政府的大規模主導但是他們的Deep Seek還有那個還有那個謙文事實上也都是來自於民間所以我們認為說這個條文不應該去強調政府的補助與輔助而是應該去強調這個產業生態系的建立對不起 次長我們現在在第13條"},{"start":3768.277,"end":3790.86,"text":"您現在講的補助是第12條對我們現在是用這一份我們現在是用大本的對喔 輔助是不是好好好沒關係 那這樣我們剛剛 那還有沒有委員有意見好 劉淑冰委員"},{"start":3795.28,"end":3816.281,"text":"關於派與委員所提到的這一部分或是民進黨委員所提到的這一部分在第13條的內容上面呢我覺得這邊也許可以做一下一個小小修訂啦因為葛委員您所提出來的修正的整個版本當中是有提到在左右干戈這一部分嘛那可能字眼已經太強烈了"},{"start":3816.741,"end":3843.547,"text":"這部分也許就可以說如與就是在這個相關法規的適用於解釋的再符合本本法第四條基本原則的前提之下等等後面就是照原來就好就把那個所幹的部分就把它把漢格的部分把它拿掉因為這樣子就可以讓它這邊就因為第四條這部分的原則就很清楚了我覺得是可以考慮往這邊去進行啦好還有沒有委員有建議好我想剛剛"},{"start":3846.099,"end":3848.723,"text":"相關法規之解釋與適用如與其他法規"},{"start":3864.622,"end":3881.753,"text":"再符合本法第四條基本原則前提下就要優先保障那我們通過剛剛那麼多別條譬如說第五條有弱勢族群等等那些就會變成都不重要了都要優先保障新興技術與物質提供就是這樣解釋沒錯嘛"},{"start":3883.474,"end":3896.549,"text":"那我覺得這樣子變成第三條跟第四條最重要其他跟第十三條新興科技衝突的只要符合第四條其他條都不重要了這樣子好像不太對吧好 謝謝 劉書斌委員"},{"start":3898.698,"end":3925.655,"text":"這一部分請重視這一個部分本來所有的條文法規就是會有要調適的部分因為在這一條已經明定了第四條裡面包括的人類自主智慧財產權的保護資通安全還包括透明跟可接信那范議員你所提到的公平跟不歧視問責這邊都已經在第四條已經把前提列出來了沒有所謂的"},{"start":3927.056,"end":3951.434,"text":"誰優先的部分只是說在這個時期當中在這個情形當中因為現在是在AI的發展階段重要階段如果我們不趕快趕上的話其實是沒辦法去保護到我們的最終的原則是要去發展AI的技術我想這個是階段性的任務所以必須要這樣的一個呈現而且在其他部分並沒有所衝突的情況之下好 謝謝劉淑冰委員 陳秀白委員 謝謝"},{"start":3952.691,"end":3972.433,"text":"現在就是這一條在我的版本裡面是放在第五條我們要如何兼顧人工智慧的開發又要降低人工智慧研發對社會的影響那其實剛剛提到說蘇冰委員提到說在第四條的基本原則的前提之下但是南寶沒有掛一漏萬"},{"start":3973.214,"end":3995.384,"text":"你在上面沒有提到的情況之下萬一有什麼是我們沒有去注意到的部分那你只要把新興技術跟服務放在最前面而且甚至是說有必要修正其他法律對於其他我覺得相關的一些群體一些相關的民眾一些相關的團體這樣子我覺得是很"},{"start":3996.124,"end":4012.031,"text":"好像就覺得在新興科技的發展之下只有科技發展是最重要的那相關的權益相關的這些在社會上我們本來有的共識好像就已經不重要了這個部分我覺得說對社會會有一個很大的疑慮以上好 謝謝"},{"start":4013.231,"end":4027.662,"text":"那我因為這個本席因為也有提出條文我簡單做個回應在七月份美國推出AI action plan其中就有講到要做法規的調適做限制的鬆綁"},{"start":4028.843,"end":4046.204,"text":"只有創新透明問責才有可能去應對所謂的專制的AI或者是不安全的AI所以我想做相關的法規調適這個精神呢是這一條最主要的那也希望能夠鼓勵這個新興的產業"},{"start":4048.446,"end":4071.356,"text":"我想如果這條有委員選擇發放條款也有委員認同那速發部則是次長表達是根本不要靠政府不要有輔助相關的文字所以從這條上面看來可能沒有共識那我們也許這條第13條我們就先保留好"},{"start":4073.956,"end":4086.967,"text":"那我們到接下來謝謝我們進入第14條那我們第14條的部分呢可以看到大本的這一本的第211對不起212頁212頁212頁那這一條有沒有委員有提出意見第14條"},{"start":4111.676,"end":4127.928,"text":"這條是主要在講這個公司協力的一個方式跟民間的合作但是我覺得除了跟民間的合作其實也應該要把國際的合作也要納進去啦可能會更加的全面喔那我想這個可以強調就是政府應該積極推動這個人才技術跟國際的一些交流"},{"start":4128.408,"end":4149.676,"text":"那也有包含這個跟國際共同開發的研究那我覺得應該是可以兼顧國內外兩大的合作的面向去考慮到整個所有的這個包含國際的一些視野可能會再更完整一點就原條文來講好 以上接下來是張二齡委員"},{"start":4151.65,"end":4173.697,"text":"好 那這個我的版本的話是在第九條啦那我一樣是強調就是說因為國際的進步非常非常快發展也非常快我們應該要強調政府要致力於推動人工智慧相關之國際合作來促成我們的人才技術設施的國際交流跟利用並參與國際的共同開發與研究所以我是希望還是強調這個部分這樣子"},{"start":4175.916,"end":4199.616,"text":"好 柯思恩委員好 我正同前面兩位委員所提到的就是除了國內之外國際也是非常的重要那我剛也聽到了次長也特別提到了我們這個很多AI都是來自於民間這大概是國際的一個趨勢民間常常先於政府但是你既然這邊第14條是以政府為主詞那是要來跟民間共同來推動人工智慧的話"},{"start":4200.316,"end":4219.923,"text":"那我的建议是因为基于过去的一些的一些实际的案例啊就是突发的一些状况啊我认为说你这呃我建议应该增加第二项了来防止所谓的合作因为你这边有提到政府要跟民间共同合作的时候呢那我们很害怕就说呃是不是会有一些"},{"start":4220.643,"end":4245.842,"text":"鼓励或者这些状况如果在这里面的话你把名列公开征选合作制度其实说你要跟民间合作的时候有一些更透明化的一个制度的话我提出了这个修正动议那我建议增加第二项是各级主管机关应该建立公平征选合作审查跟透明报告的机制来确保合作案的公平性跟公共利益性并且鼓励中小企业新创团队等等"},{"start":4246.923,"end":4255.714,"text":"來做一個多元的主體參與然後提升全民創新的能量我是認為是應該把這個共同合作部分更把它明確化一下"},{"start":4264.668,"end":4285.936,"text":"謝謝主席我們討論的這個第十四條是我的版本的第五條跟第六條因為真的是大家調子差很多本席在這邊是在第五條有寫明就是政府要建立一個人工智慧的沙盒制度也就是要一個受控的實驗環境"},{"start":4287.336,"end":4303.464,"text":"所以條文是寫為促進人工智慧技術創新與永續發展各目的事業主管機關得針對人工智慧創新產品或服務建立或完備人工智慧研發與應用服務之創新實驗環境"},{"start":4304.725,"end":4323.308,"text":"那這個沙盒制度的建立我想也是在創新實驗上相當重要的在可受控的環境內來加以研發跟實驗那這會是促進人工智慧前端應用的關鍵過程所以請大家支持以上 謝謝好 陳秀寶委員 范瑩委員陳秀寶委員先請 謝謝"},{"start":4324.742,"end":4341.569,"text":"謝謝主席這條裡面在我的版本是發生第六條但我想我們立這個法就會希望說是促進人工智慧發展所以希望說政府跟民間這邊要保持密切聯繫那接著雙方資源來共同發展像舉個例子像去年"},{"start":4342.389,"end":4368.174,"text":"歸達提供這個超級電腦的這個算力給各學院單位來申請那其中我們國科會跟中研院就有執行這個TIDE的計畫這也是產官學合作的一個很好的示範能夠由民間提供足夠的算力的情況之下我們學院單位就可以先行投入研發對於相關的人工智慧開發也能夠跟上世界的腳步所以在這個部分呢我也很期待後續書法部跟民間這個合作能夠繼續的有一個比較快的一個發展以上"},{"start":4368.834,"end":4390.285,"text":"好 謝謝陳秀寶委員 范瑩委員 侯孟凱委員 再來次長我的版本的葛如軍委員是14條 我是在第7條那比照一下就是葛如軍委員是國家應基於公司協力原則我的版本是政府已以公司協力"},{"start":4393.627,"end":4406.974,"text":"所以一個是因 一個是疑因跟疑的差異我們委員應該很清楚所以我的版本會給那個政府多一點點空間啦那我剛剛看到那個那個誰"},{"start":4408.855,"end":4426.161,"text":"許智傑委員的是德跟我的比較接近所以我想要問一下因為我的想法是說像有些部分政府可以獨立做或是出發部可以獨立做的那其實就不一定要公司協力嘛那如果需要公司協力的我們當然就去協力"},{"start":4426.661,"end":4454.675,"text":"那這是第一個差異那第二個差異就是我的版本的第二段就是關於國際合作的部分是政府應那許智傑委員這邊也是政府應所以是不是能請速發部表達一下就是說前面我們差異的部分耿如君是應公司協力那我的部分是得然後許智傑等委員也是得林益錦那邊我還沒有比較這到底會對你們有什麼影響這樣"},{"start":4455.963,"end":4465.473,"text":"好 謝謝范瑩委員 侯孟楷委員然後再來萬美玲委員不好意思那個麥克風可以幫孟楷委員遞一下謝謝"},{"start":4468.837,"end":4487.076,"text":"好 感謝各位第十四條我想還是要先講一下很多委員都講說他的版本在第五條 第六條 第幾條那為什麼會有這樣的一個狀況真的還是要譴責速發布你的版本沒有出來就會讓我們各自委員要各自為各自的版本來捍衛跟辯護"},{"start":4488.337,"end":4507.814,"text":"那但是我們回歸到終止以這個原本不管是我們召委的版本或是說比較多的委員的一個版本其實第14條我覺得立法精神非常明確它就是公私協力那共同中央跟地方也好或是政府跟民間也好共同積極的推動人工智慧基本的創新運用我想這個"},{"start":4508.735,"end":4533.797,"text":"立法宗旨絕對沒有問題而且立法宗旨也應該就是如同現在我們大家一起共同推動那後續是不是要再加上是說這個更細的部分不管是說中小企業啦創新團隊啦還是甚至說國際接軌我想國際上因為AI這個東西它本來就不是只有台灣獨身之外我們也不可能閉門造局所以國際接軌本來也就是我們共同的目標要學習國際"},{"start":4535.899,"end":4551.829,"text":"的所長大家共同來運用嘛所以我建議是說是不是把這幾個部分委員好的一個意見都可以把它納入然後還是一樣這速發布應該要有一個版本出來來給我們來做一個最終那如果說沒有的話那這一條是不是就要先保留以上 謝謝"},{"start":4552.529,"end":4580.103,"text":"好 謝謝洪孟凱委員那萬美玲委員 謝謝謝謝昭偉我想在這個政府以公司協力的方式跟民間合作這應該是大家都沒有問題也都有共識那但是我想加上這個在這個人工智慧相關的跟國際合作這件事情其實我個人的版本也有提那我也覺得非常的重要不管在人才技術或是設施上面如果我們可以在這個國際交流跟利用上面更擴大更深入一點"},{"start":4580.663,"end":4588.327,"text":"然後來參與國際共同的研究跟開發我想這個會更完整所以這個是我個人的一個版本好 謝謝萬美玲委員請林益晉次長"},{"start":4591.85,"end":4617.711,"text":"蘇發部這邊認為第一個首先針對范議員所提的是要得或者是因我們認為說得會比較有彈性因為人工智慧的發展真是日新月異不是說每年有新的發展而事實上是每個月每週都有新的發展所以我們是希望說在人工智慧基本法的立法的時候能給我們更多的彈性另外就是這一條我們蘇發部是認為說"},{"start":4619.913,"end":4644.754,"text":"這條立法精神是強調公司協力那會跟國際合作比較有關係所以應該是搭配就是政府應致力於推動人工智慧相關之國際合作這一類的條文會比較合適而不是在一些比較細節的鼓勵中小企業等條文謝謝市長我這邊稍微做個回應"},{"start":4647.776,"end":4666.016,"text":"我覺得政府應確實也可以改為宜因為我們剛剛外媒林委員也有提到所以這邊電腦我覺得我們可以試試看吧我們是不是把應改成宜那剛剛市長也有提到就是我們把國際合作放在前面那這樣就又沒辦法我們就宜基於"},{"start":4667.017,"end":4694.85,"text":"公司協力原則積極進行國際合作並與民間共同推動這個對不起我們這個野人獻鋪一下看有沒有機會來取得大家的共識那底下的紅字部分呢我們柯志恩委員有提出修正東西是說要簡化或者拿掉都可以看我是覺得也不錯但是確實"},{"start":4700.615,"end":4710.265,"text":"國際合作放在這邊意義有點變得不一樣因為我們的版本的國際合作反而是政府因致力於推動人工智慧相關之國際合作"},{"start":4715.089,"end":4740.738,"text":"促進人才技術與設施之國際交流及利用並參與國際共同開發及研究這邊政府變成是應了然後他就不需要強調公私協力公私協力是在前面與民間合作推動人工智慧創新運用所以這個主體變不要你這邊要變成國際合作也要以公私協力了那我們再試一次政府應積極進行"},{"start":4745.447,"end":4772.226,"text":"就放前面嘛 政府應積極什麼再念一次 應...應致力推動人工智慧相關之國際合作好 就這一句先把它key進去好吧 你後面應該是分號就是說 疑或政府 疑或疑得與公司 寫這樣子我念一下 政府 那個委員會同仁我念一次 從第一個字開始 就是政府應"},{"start":4773.547,"end":4800.07,"text":"致力推動人工智慧相關之國際合作那分號並基於公司協力原則那積極進行國際合作就可以拿掉了對並得或是並疑先這樣吧 並疑並疑啊疑就沒有那麼強制性那麼高嘛"},{"start":4802.595,"end":4816.923,"text":"對也可以不用疑啦有點贅字啦你如果法律上疑沒有的話就是變成陰的意思基於就已經不是陰了嘛基於就不是陰了好不好我們疑就先拿掉並基於公私協力原則"},{"start":4818.084,"end":4845.995,"text":"积极与民间共同推动人工智慧之创新应用那个赵伟这样子强度会有差那速发部表达一下疑惑的是病德就是弱一点点弹性大一点请法治处先 次长先我们是认为应该用病德因为前面是因智利于这样会比较有弹性本来就德啦没关系我们请法治处这边有没有张处长可不可以表达一下"},{"start":4847.015,"end":4872.701,"text":"就是說其實基於這個原則就已經不是強制性了基於原則嗎基於這個難道是不基於這個原則嗎因為剛剛次長已經表達了人工智慧的發展不應該是靠政府的啊所以人公司協力基於公司協力的原則有什麼問題呢好次長OK了謝謝那我們就並基於好那這一條第等一下但是後面第二段第二段因為這裡是講說公開甄選合作與審查"},{"start":4879.638,"end":4904.629,"text":"但是就是回到我們那個就是前面講的這樣會讓好像整個立法的那個方向會變成說是政府在主導所以我們建議說第二段整個不要那我們好那我們就後面紅字的部分可以拿掉了對第二項可以拿掉了好那我們就立法說明系統好像比較好"},{"start":4906.411,"end":4930.481,"text":"那第14條我再念一遍來往上先不要急好第14條政府應致力推動人工智慧相關之國際合作並基於公司協力原則積極與民間共同推動人工智慧之創新應用好這一條有沒有委員有意見如果沒有的話我們這一條是不是就照修正通過好可以好"},{"start":4937.53,"end":4958.797,"text":"好那第14條的說明的對對同時呢我們把柯市長委員的修正動議這個事情況我們把它參採一致說明欄位好那我們這邊就照修正通過謝謝第14條好那我們接下來進入第15條"},{"start":4961.727,"end":4991.09,"text":"第15條我們看大本的第218頁218頁那本來葛如君的版本國家在這邊我們也改成政府以保持他的一致性第15條好有沒有委員這個林錦昭委然後郭玉琴委員張雅琳委員武帝華委員柯志恩委員羅廷偉委員"},{"start":4992.947,"end":5014.143,"text":"好 謝謝主席好不容易這一條葛如君招我的版本第15條跟我的版本第15條剛好契合可喜可賀這個根據我拿手一包你知道嗎這個不用拿了這個根據上次我們這個AI基本法的公聽會有許多專家學者的意見"},{"start":5015.744,"end":5042.477,"text":"這一條是討論資料開放跟利用我想這是各界最重視的一點本席在這一條也有提出一個修正動議我是加最後一項就是政府與資料之應用時應同時採取促進智慧財產保護之相關措施或機制"},{"start":5043.217,"end":5070.068,"text":"那因為根據這個智慧財產相關專長的律師給我們的意見那認為說資料的利用它可能會衍生很多智慧財產的爭議所以應用資料的時候也要留意智慧財產保護的相關事宜那政府它應該要採取相關的措施或者機制來防止這個智慧財產權受損或衍生的相關爭議所以我的那個版本有加最後一個我的動議有加最後一項"},{"start":5070.988,"end":5099.745,"text":"那還有就是說那個隔遠的版本就是有寫是像說有一個是政府因智力提升我國人工智慧使用資料怎樣怎樣那隔遠的版本是確保那本來那個修正動議裡面是寫以利我還是認為確保是比較OK的啦那以上"},{"start":5101.195,"end":5119.597,"text":"好 謝謝李儀錦召委我們接下來請郭玉琴委員這一條我有提修正動議那就是後面我特別因為他講的是人工智慧的使用資料的可再利用性那這個部分其實我剛剛跟這個儀錦的差不多就是在特別加增"},{"start":5120.097,"end":5138.772,"text":"就是在採取這個措施避免人工智慧在開發的前後資料的處理訓練跟學習的過程發生智慧財產權的一個侵害那我舉例來講2023年其實好萊塢他們的編劇工會大罷工的時候其實當初他們都非常的擔心這個AI對於編劇的工作他們可能會"},{"start":5139.252,"end":5158.324,"text":"利用這些所謂的這個劇本AI的這個劇本再訓練這個AI那對這個所謂的智慧財產權也會造成一定程度的侵害所以這個部分我想在這個修正動議在制定這個人工智慧基本法的時候我覺得應該要增加避免人工智慧在開發前後的資料處理訓練跟學習過程侵害到這個智慧財產權的部分"},{"start":5163.527,"end":5179.854,"text":"所以這個我有跟林玉琴委員有特別再提一個修正東西這樣子好謝謝郭玉琴委員接下來請伍麗華委員然後張雅琳然後羅廷瑋委員那我們先讓次長然後然後謝謝先這個伍麗華委員謝謝"},{"start":5182.133,"end":5200.999,"text":"好謝謝主席對關於這一條確實是各界最重視的一條因為涉及到維護智慧財產權所以呢這個部分我的意見也是一樣的就是希望特別在這一條再把怎麼維護"},{"start":5202.92,"end":5221.042,"text":"智慧財產權這個部分能夠把它單獨列一項來促進智慧財產權的保護相關措施因為我們都看到現在在AI應用的時候不管是學術成果或者是新聞的成果"},{"start":5221.963,"end":5245.285,"text":"最近這些年都會傳出就是沒有經授權就使用這些資料或者餵養這種AI模型的爭議所以呢我也特別就是希望能夠在這一條當中特別去獨立一下那我自己也有修正動議那希望特別來強調自衛財產權的保障措施所以像林怡瑾召委她的這個"},{"start":5246.626,"end":5261.5,"text":"第15條他有增加第三項政府應採取措施避免人工智慧開發前後之資料處理訓練學習過程發生智慧財產權之侵害那我大概支持這樣的一個文字謝謝謝謝吳麗華委員接下來請張雅玲委員"},{"start":5267.617,"end":5287.013,"text":"其实我的部分就是跟大家都差不多就是要来去建立资料的开放共享及再利用制度并且定期的检视与调整相关的法令此外资料治理必须兼顾多元文化价值与智慧财产权所以我们是希望AI的训练资料能反映"},{"start":5287.493,"end":5304.566,"text":"台湾多元族群的特性避免产生偏差或伤害弱势群体同时维护人民的智慧财产权透过这样子的机制兼顾创新发展与权益保障不过我对于这个葛昭伟的第15条里面我有两个"},{"start":5306.694,"end":5332.107,"text":"兩個名詞吧我可能看得不是很清不是很理解希望待會可能也可以再要請葛昭偉幫我們科普一下啦就是可加解密之再利用性以及價值可追溯記錄之特性這兩個名詞我有點不太確定他的意思是什麼好謝謝張雅玲委員待會再做回覆那接下來柯志恩委員然後羅廷偉委員然後陳秀寶委員范雲委員然後劉書斌委員"},{"start":5333.577,"end":5360.918,"text":"我觉得每个人都非常的在乎这个条文里面特别是对于再利用还有它的一些资料的开放性我想等一下请述发部是不是跟我们回应一下这个有关于这个开放的共享的这个等级的分类到底是谁来去做因为这里面涵盖这样的一个概念我本来是想要提一个修正动议就是应该建立资料开放跟共享等级的一个分类还有它的标准"},{"start":5361.478,"end":5378.88,"text":"跟授權管理的一個制度因為大家會非常的關切就是萬一不同年齡層的孩子看到這樣的一個資訊是否有需要更加以的來防衛我想非常多的民間團體都會做這樣所以有關於這個等級的分類到底是誰來做"},{"start":5380.021,"end":5404.043,"text":"教育部 抒发部还是等等之类我想这个东西要先把它理定清楚我们才有办法说不管是在利用在开放的时候这些的把关机制我觉得是一个非常非常重要等级分类只问一个是谁来去做不要东西一放了到最后没人做这个东西真的是一个基本法放下去没有个执行单位我觉得这个是相当严重的"},{"start":5404.505,"end":5429.396,"text":"好 謝謝柯志恩委員 接下來請羅廷偉委員好 我想呼應柯志恩委員所說的我想資料庫的建立是需要非常完善的而且在這樣子的一個基本法裡面如果沒有定定的清楚 我也非常的擔憂是不是後續在這個分層的時候大家互推又會有這樣子的一個狀況產生 最後都沒有人願意做所以我覺得在這個部分上我們今天應該來釐清一下 謝謝"},{"start":5432.145,"end":5458.75,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員接下來請陳秀寶委員然後范雲委員然後劉書斌委員 侯孟凱委員謝謝主席在這條本席的提案裡面是在14條政府應建立資料開放共享與再利用機制提供人工智慧使用資料之可利用性並進行檢視與調整相關法令及規範那本席這邊的想法跟葛昭偉蠻相似的就是"},{"start":5459.53,"end":5470.557,"text":"我也認為說政府應該提升人工智慧使用資料之品質與數量避免使用錯誤或虛偽資料導致人工智慧生成之內容有混淆民眾的情況甚至產生損害並且應該同時兼顧人工智慧的訓練及生成結果來維繫多元文化價值與保障智慧財產權"},{"start":5478.962,"end":5496.509,"text":"所以這個部分呢 我的條文是寫政府應致力提升我國人工智慧使用資料之品質與數量並避免使用錯誤或虛偽的資料確保人工智慧訓練及生成結果維繫國家多元文化價值與維護智慧財產權 以上謝謝陳秀寶委員 接下來請范瑀委員"},{"start":5501.941,"end":5529.334,"text":"就是說這條大概有兩個部分第一個部分大家有共同意見的就是要建立資料開放共享及再利用機制等等等等就這個部分來講的話就是國務卿委員等很多委員提出來的修正前面多了一個為什麼為什麼就是政府因本與什麼永久性可加密價值可追溯記錄可是這個原因其實就立法技術來講不一定需要寫在這"},{"start":5530.294,"end":5542.228,"text":"只要寫建立什麼什麼機制就好而且這個原因可能會有些爭議譬如說有人就會認為說有些資料不用加密再利用解密再利用加解密有些資料不需要追溯記錄反而讓"},{"start":5545.031,"end":5564.355,"text":"就是說這個資料是不是具有這些性引起爭議所以是不是前面那個部分可以刪掉就是政府應該建立資料開放共享及再利用機制因為這個大家也是共識最高的不需要去詮釋說為什麼原因因為立法技術有時候詮釋放在說明就好了那這是第一個我的意見"},{"start":5565.335,"end":5591.56,"text":"那這個說這條文的第二段的部分就是我想大家都有共同的價值譬如說國家多元文化維護智慧財產權那我們也知道美國很多報社就是去告那個就是那些什麼CHAT GPT等等然後而且有告成所以智慧財產權這個部分很重要那但是我發現我們的條文的差別是葛如君委員這邊跟很多委員的今天的修正版就只有寫到確保訓練結果"},{"start":5594.32,"end":5618.245,"text":"後面那我跟我們一些委員的有多個除了訓練結果之外後面多了一個急產出我是覺得急產出要寫進去啦不要只有訓練因為只有訓練的話萬一產出沒有呢所以是不是大家可以也把那個確保訓練結果後面加上急產出以上就這兩個意見 謝謝好 謝謝 接下來請劉書斌委員"},{"start":5623.356,"end":5648.194,"text":"好 這個第15條的重點在於人工智慧的資料使用是可利用性還有開放性那這個部分沒有問題但是很重要的一點就是說如果要可利用性還包括開放性的情況之下可能要有一個資料平台是需要有一些要通用格式因為如果你沒有通用格式的話這部分會造成很多的很多的時候在試用上是有問題的"},{"start":5649.815,"end":5669.026,"text":"但是在通用格式當中更重要的是在於說也配合到格委員第15條的內容當中有提到價值可追溯性紀錄之特性這個價值這一部分因為後來呈現出來的包括像你怎麼依健保的等等的這種資料或是更重要的一些相關資料它事實上是相當有價值的那這個部分我覺得本黨的強調是說應該建立要所謂的資料資產化的概念要有建立起來"},{"start":5678.632,"end":5687.178,"text":"那不然這樣的地方即使是但是這部分因為有涉及到公共利益的部分所以我覺得在速發部這邊在訂定的時候必須要把這種資產價值化讓這個部分也讓鼓勵到私人企業如果在運用這個資料的時候在速發部這些規我們現在AI基本法的規範之下但是它能夠有一個也有一個在適當的利益的這個價值當中能夠做一些的一個保障這樣子才能夠促使說引進私人"},{"start":5707.173,"end":5711.396,"text":"利益的私人機構的這邊的加入參與謝謝謝謝劉淑冰委員接下來請洪孟凱委員那個麥克風可以換一下那個"},{"start":5727.806,"end":5747.585,"text":"喂 好 周緯謝謝喔第15條我想大家剛討論這一些我想概念跟核心價值沒有問題但是我要必須要直接請教素發布你應該要說明一下是說在第15條你們的想像跟未來政府或是國家要負的責任是什麼為什麼這樣講呢是因為我這樣看這第15條"},{"start":5749.741,"end":5766.059,"text":"不管大家各自條文版本不太相同但是其實開眾秘都講說政府也好或國家也好應該要有這個資料的永久性加密等等的這個特性然後建立資料開放共享跟再利用機制那未來是說如果通過這之後是政府要主導要一個資料庫嗎"},{"start":5768.397,"end":5790.686,"text":"是你政府要主導一個資料庫的概念你才能夠建立一個資料開放共享跟再利用的機制那這是不是我們現在政府未來要走的方向這等一下請蘇發報直接說明不然的話這一條條文看起來是這樣那還有再來第二段的部分是說政府要提升智力我們人工智慧的使用資料品質跟數量"},{"start":5791.306,"end":5813.097,"text":"不管是我們葛如軍委員召委的這個版本其實我覺得在修正之後這個用字比較精準就確保訓練結果是展現國家多元文化跟維護智慧財產權我想展現國家多元文化跟維護智慧財產權是絕對沒有問題這是普世價值可是如果說以剛剛好幾位委員的版本看起來的話是政府要來做這件事情"},{"start":5813.917,"end":5832.837,"text":"政府要來確保人工智慧的使用資料之後要展現國家多元文化價值跟維護智慧財產權那將來會不會如果說這一條依照很多委員的版本的寫法的話那將來有任何人因為人工智慧的運用而智慧財產權受損的話那是不是也可以找政府當作是一個球場的單位"},{"start":5834.534,"end":5850.253,"text":"我覺得這個是速發部你應該要說明清楚的你們的一個立法精神在這條討論裡面因為這是母法 這是基本法所以說當然應該要更嚴謹一點所以說速發部的態度很重要請讓我們知道 以上謝謝好 謝謝洪孟凱委員 葉元芝委員"},{"start":5853.147,"end":5879.28,"text":"對 我也是呼應一下那個洪孟改委員也是請等一下抒發部來考慮一下因為民間現在其實很在乎的是他們現在有很多模型要做訓練的時候會去抓一些資料但抓資料之後又怕那些資料可能有侵權的問題所以常常他們的法務也很頭痛就這個資料到底可以抓還是不可以抓那我不曉得說這個母法定下來之後這個問題能不能解決啦所以請抒發部也來回應一下 謝謝"},{"start":5881.769,"end":5898.115,"text":"好 謝謝葉仁芝委員那我這邊也稍微做個說明第15條真的非常感動看到有超過10位委員都有非常關心這一條真的是我們AI基本法的靈魂所在但是在這裡我也要用靈魂來再次譴責速發布"},{"start":5899.716,"end":5922.453,"text":"因為訴發部沒有提出不版的草案我們也譴責行政院沒有提出行政院的版本導致其實跨黨派的委員都有共同的一致認同的精神在公聽會當中也有所有的學界跟專家都提出說這個資料進行訓練以及尊重版權這件事情大家都是認可的"},{"start":5922.913,"end":5940.738,"text":"但是我們沒有一個一致的版本導致非常多的委員都有共同的關心但是條次不同文字略有不同等等所以我想這一點我們還是要再次譴責那因為我本席這裡也有提出一些版本那我就稍微簡單做個說很快速的說明"},{"start":5942.258,"end":5963.123,"text":"絕對尊重智慧財產權所以我們在這一條的最後一段也提到了一定要來維護智慧財產權同時在第四條就是我們的修正版今天的這個這個跨黨派委員的修正版我們今天提出的修正動議的第四條其中也有"},{"start":5963.743,"end":5984.633,"text":"非常重要的採納了包括萬美林委員還有多位委員在內的第四項也就是智慧財產之保護所以呢這一點精神是已經納入進本法的那同時呢剛剛有張雅琳委員有提到這個可加解密還有價值可追溯等等其實我們希望能夠明確的"},{"start":5985.974,"end":6010.429,"text":"讓大家知道資料開放不是就被看光光用技術的做法可以加密也就是你的內容不會因為你被政府開放了所有人就免費閱讀免費下載可以不是這樣的同時呢價值是可以保存追溯的也就是如果你的資料被運用了可是政府的訓練的機構"},{"start":6012.93,"end":6021.297,"text":"在訓練的過程不一定能夠直接支付代償等等也許這個訓練的點數或記錄可以被保存下來他可以之後再進行相關的compensation就是所謂的補償在日本進行相關的法令修正其實就是訓練的部分可以盡可能的訓練可是在產出的時候依照他訓練的過程來進行所謂的"},{"start":6038.912,"end":6041.714,"text":"價值的討論所以這一點我們希望放在這裡也是希望能夠讓大家理解我們所採取的路線是所謂的有價而且可加密的開放我們也希望大家可以來支持這樣的一個做法"},{"start":6055.021,"end":6059.822,"text":"同時剛剛有委員提到授權還有分級還有分類等等其實我們的綜合版的第六條有相關的保護有未成年人的保護我們也有第九條關於相關的學校教育單位主管機關要進行的指引所以我們這裡是有相關的條文都有提到的"},{"start":6084.306,"end":6101.529,"text":"那同時呢剛剛范瑀委員有提到這個只提到訓練結果沒有提到產出我也覺得這個建議非常好所以如果待會我們有機會進到這個細節文字的時候我覺得這個把產出放進來也是可以考慮的那因為非常多委員都希望這個速發部這裡來回應那是不是請次長OK 剛才感謝許多委員的意見"},{"start":6111.182,"end":6137.589,"text":"對於書發部這邊來講我們是認為說這個政府應該建立資料開放共享及再利用機制這個部分是沒有問題的但是關於這個永久性事實上這個很難定義那個我們不曉得如何操作就像我們二三十年前我們都認為說只要燒成光碟就可以永久保存但是現在光碟我們都讀不到因為沒有人在賣光碟機了所以這個永久性是我們這個整個"},{"start":6139.469,"end":6166.695,"text":"數位產業大家都想要追求的但是在這邊立法裡面講說要做那個永久性我們真不知道這個定義可能太模糊我是建議說不要提永久性然後再來再利用性這個地方我們也都覺得沒有問題但是可加解密之再利用性我們認為說這個太技術性了事實上剛剛包含那個張亮林委員等等也提到事實上這些文字我們都看不太懂我想不單單是那個非"},{"start":6169.056,"end":6197.197,"text":"電腦專業人士就是覺得看不太懂事實上我一輩子都在這個領域裡面我覺得我也不是很了解可加解密之再利用性具體是什麼意思再來是那個價值可追溯記錄價值可追溯記錄坦白講這個我們也覺得事實上是定義有點太技術性了而且這個不是在學界或者是產業界常用的就是說取得共識的一個概念"},{"start":6197.597,"end":6208.688,"text":"所以建議是把這個文字把它移除就是用一些我們大家都能同意而且能具體去實施的一些條文謝謝市長請回應"},{"start":6220.189,"end":6248.314,"text":"資料分類的共享等級這個也是一樣就是說坦白講我還沒聽過所以資料分類的共享等級我覺得你的措辭大家都是來自學界你不能因為你一級的部分就否定說這些你也看不懂不會 我知道這對昭偉的文字來說我覺得這有點disgrace我是來自產業界不是來自學界那還是一樣嘛"},{"start":6248.994,"end":6275.451,"text":"有人来自学业的产业界你不能因为你没有听过你就完全否定说他的意思到底是怎么样我觉得这样的措辞我觉得可能需要可以让他更和善一点然后呢产业界里面还是一句话你有很多的分类店也有分类那你这些的资料也会需要有一些的分类那分类的一个标准我们要只是问一个额外问一个就是说这个东西是由您书发部来去做还是由国客会来做还是由教育部来做"},{"start":6275.871,"end":6290.845,"text":"我觉得这个部分应该是可以来做一个这样子的一个回应因为我们看到这个第六条里面他这边只是告诉我们我回顾到刚刚赵伟所说的第六条里面他说有一些认定的高风险应用者应该明确注意这个"},{"start":6291.906,"end":6306.181,"text":"要放出这个所谓的警语那这个高风险AI应用应该就是就需要一个明确的一个那警语到底是具体怎么样做等等我懂我像只是说刚刚周伟有特别提到他说第六条跟第十五条"},{"start":6306.761,"end":6328.079,"text":"彼此之间可以互换来去看的虽然我们在讨论第十五条但是赵伟刚刚也提到了很多我们刚刚所关切我跟罗廷伟委员所关切的对于一些年龄层次这些所谓的资料的这个分类他告诉我们要回顾到第六条那我就回顾看到第六条啊可是第六条这个层次里面所显示出来我还是不需要说这个我还是不清楚"},{"start":6328.84,"end":6355.775,"text":"第一条所写的具体的做法是怎么样认定跟审查程序需要制度化那教育部跟数位部有没有共同的认定等等所以我总认为第15条虽然是一个上法但是有些执行的层面上面你透过文字里面把它界定的更清楚更能够保护到这个不同层级不同看这个资料的这个等等我觉得术发部可以在这个地方就好用我的语言分类好吧谁来做这个分类的标准次长"},{"start":6357.552,"end":6359.8,"text":"資料的分類資料哪一方面的分類你這邊"},{"start":6362.021,"end":6388.044,"text":"是什么样的分类是风险等级的分类还是说是那个PG-13还是那种我不晓得PG-13OKI really have no idea what is about the PG-13但你这个就是那个儿少保护的分类还是哪一方面的分类这个要讲清楚我坦白讲我并不是很了解委员的意思就是说资料分类我们事实上我们每天都在做资料的分类但是这个到底是指哪一方"},{"start":6388.564,"end":6413.666,"text":"哪一方面的资料分类我个人认为说本来我在这个地方应该因为你在这个条文上面我们应该是要建立资料开放跟共享等级的这个分类标准格式跟授权的管理我现在只是care到这个部分我们开放到这个资料的时候呢你会透过不同的方法什么样的人什么样的方式什么样的族群可以来把这个资料的这个部分能够把它更清楚好吧"},{"start":6414.306,"end":6423.951,"text":"我覺得我跟次長溝通上有一些的問題我們要請我們最原始可以做這樣的資料分類你們總要聽得懂吧國會誰告訴誰不懂什麼叫資料分類你跟產業界說一下吧"},{"start":6432.698,"end":6454.246,"text":"范委員然後可能國科會這裡來做個回應我是覺得那個我們還是回到那個法律的文字的修啦那不知道柯志恩委員的那個資料分類因為我們有看到柯志恩是在你的版本中嗎我們就是看是今天提出來的還是原本就有的是今天提出來因為我手上沒有柯志恩委員的條文"},{"start":6460.504,"end":6471.073,"text":"直行的方法講未來的啦所以其實跟我們今天的條文沒有職業關係他是問一個未來的資料分類是誰做應該就主管機關吧如果有的話"},{"start":6471.973,"end":6497.848,"text":"因為我們後來待會兒就是好像十八十九條針對風險分類有明文的討論我們可以到那邊再討論那現在這邊我聽到了就是次長建議說把那個產業界或者等等會稍微有些不同意見的前面的國家為什麼原因或政府為什麼原因刪掉我也覺得蠻好的因為就法律技術以前我們會被告訴說為什麼原因不一定要講也可以講到"},{"start":6499.049,"end":6524.462,"text":"說明文字中最重要是要做什麼事那所以不需要在為什麼原因中大家有一些沒有共識的文字那最重要就是說多數委員的版本都有建立資料開放共享級再利用這個機制這邊有就好了那另外其他委員有一些就是我們剛剛講到謝謝主席召委接受說除了訓練結果之外再加產出也許我們就回到法律文字啦那柯政委員只是想問你問題那個"},{"start":6525.723,"end":6551.812,"text":"那個大家覺得次長不要就是覺得好像大家都不對這樣讓他聽起來不太舒服我想這是就回應的方式就是說有一些建議這樣好 以上謝謝范瑀委員國客會這邊有沒有要補充說明我們還是非常這個感謝國客會在去年10月有曾經一度提出預告的草案版本這一點我想還是我們表達感謝"},{"start":6554.496,"end":6580.143,"text":"我想柯委員關心的就是說我們資料開放應用是為了創新但是我們不能夠不保障人權我們還有人權的議題這個就牽涉到風險那風險的部分其實我們數學部其實也是建議建議我們會有風險分類比如說我們在人體的資料或者是一般"},{"start":6581.654,"end":6594.49,"text":"那就是會有主管部會會有主管部會那那個資料治理的部分其實蘇發部也在制定這個作用法所以這個會搭配在一起好"},{"start":6597.035,"end":6615.8,"text":"謝謝主委那國會主委也是兼政務委員我想剛剛的討論非常多委員都是本於理性跟法條那我想柯志恩委員還有我們對委員針對法條提出這個看法那也希望從速發部這裡來得到一些速發部這裡的觀點"},{"start":6617.46,"end":6638.269,"text":"但是之所以我們要在這裡去詢問也是因為我們在速發部這裡得到的意見非常有限草案條文也沒有提出那我們也就希望能夠藉由這樣的交流能夠知道速發部未來因為雖然我們的版本的條文是希望國科會來作為主委機關但是行政院也一直說是由"},{"start":6638.709,"end":6665.595,"text":"速發部那速發部就應該要對這些事情就算你條文草案沒有提出你應該對後續的執行可能有一些想法所以我想這個對話的過程當中也請這個速發部這邊再麻煩就是如同范議員所提的我們也許就是很平和的針對法條來討論那這裡我做兩點簡要的說明第一是關於所謂的資料具有永久性我們現在2025年"},{"start":6667.375,"end":6685.634,"text":"自从2018年出现一个叫区块链的技术以后其实资料永久性就已经有机会被解决了现在也有包含所谓的星际档案系统IPFS等等的一些技术能够来帮助资料做更永续的"},{"start":6686.275,"end":6711.603,"text":"更分散式的儲存那我想這個之所以加注這些技術性的當然也包含台灣我們其實是科技之島我們有非常多優異的團隊對這些資料處理跟保護的技術是非常非常能夠支持跟理解的那如果我們只用了共享跟再利用以及資料開放我們也會擔心產業界以及版權方"},{"start":6712.463,"end":6736.488,"text":"是不是會誤會他們沒有受到相關的價值、程序性以及是不是就會被看光光所以我想這樣子的文字加進來是有它的考量存在那我想我們先回過頭來我們是不是至少我想這個范雲委員的意見我們可以試著把它放進來在最後的第二項的部分確保"},{"start":6738.92,"end":6745.22,"text":"訓練即產出結果好不好即產出結果好是"},{"start":6747.384,"end":6775.258,"text":"想問昭緯因為後面那個資料開放共享集再利用大家都有共識嘛那前面要不要寫那個資料的特性那幾個特性如果放在說明文字是不是OK然後速發部覺得如果可以的話我們就把它移到說明文字如果速發部也覺得OK的話那這樣子這條就可以通過要不然就保留如何因為這條我們討論很久了對啊這裡我們我先謝謝范瑀委員我先簡要的再做個說明"},{"start":6776.317,"end":6800.347,"text":"其實在資料開放的部分全球都在關注那日本的處理是完全把它做一個開放沒有任何有償的機制也不一定去探討到資料的價值那我們台灣能不能夠有一個台灣價值的AI基本法把它放在本文有它的技術性意義"},{"start":6801.207,"end":6830.649,"text":"那当然在这里我想我们先听听看速发部次长的说法我们次长请谢谢那个建议有两个方法第一个建议有两个方法第一个是把那个永久性还有那个可加解密这几个文字还有那个价值可追溯记录这几个字放到立法说明里面而不要放到本文这是一个方法那另外一个方法就是我们保留"},{"start":6834.298,"end":6855.334,"text":"其他委員有好那我想我們是不是這一條我們試著修修看我們先把這個資把本於政府應建立資料開放對先編輯試試看"},{"start":6874.872,"end":6883.078,"text":"好 那我這邊唸一下"},{"start":6890.444,"end":6903.543,"text":"政府應建立資料開放、共享及再利用機制以提升人工智慧使用資料之可利用性並定期檢視與調整相關法令及規範"},{"start":6905.103,"end":6929.992,"text":"政府應致力提升我國人工智慧使用資料之品質與數量確保訓練及產出結果足以展現國家多元文化價值與維護智慧財產權好那本來的前述的一些描述性的技術性的文字我們就放到說明欄位那是郭義行委員"},{"start":6932.079,"end":6951.751,"text":"我有一個建議就是那個維護智慧財產權的部分是不是可以把它寫成是避免就是在就是避免那個過程會侵害到智慧財產權就是說避免智慧財產權在第四條就有提到智慧財產權之保護"},{"start":6952.651,"end":6970.498,"text":"人工智慧之發展及應用應遵守智慧財產權相關條文使其不受侵害在第4條第4條的第4項謝謝委員提出好那如果大家沒有意見我想我們人工智慧基本法的靈魂第15條我們就修正通過"},{"start":6975.393,"end":6999.398,"text":"也希望我們這一次的討論我相信整個產業都在看全世界也都在看也希望我們今天修正的結果所有的委員我們一起來共同維護包含交通委員會的委員還有我們今天列席所有的官員也希望這個精神就確定的落實也幫助我們的產業來積極的發展"},{"start":7001.578,"end":7014.666,"text":"好那我們這一條第15條修正通過那再來呢我們就是第16條好那我們第16條呢是在第229頁大本的這一本"},{"start":7035.387,"end":7043.228,"text":"好 那有沒有委員針對第16條有意見 建議或說明張雅琳委員 謝謝"},{"start":7045.529,"end":7068.147,"text":"那這條話我有增加第二項就是說主要還是強調就是未成年的未成年人的個資保護就是說因為我們針對於未成年的個資保護應該去強調少收少用也就是要遵守一個資料最小化的原則並且採取風險控款的措施來確保他們這些資料不會輕易的外洩或者是被濫用"},{"start":7069.468,"end":7093.948,"text":"那這條也有提到說負責個資保護的主管機關應該主動協助其他部會根據國內外的資料保護標準和指引一起把個資保護的制度建立起來讓不管是哪個領域在用AI都有一套完整的隱私保護機制簡單來說這條就是在提醒政府AI可以推但是人民的隱私要顧尤其是小孩的部分謝謝"},{"start":7095.353,"end":7099.836,"text":"好謝謝張雅琳委員我們接下來是林益錦召委那郭育晴委員然後林益錦召委謝謝這第16條其實在強調這隱私權的保障其實非常重要那剛剛就是呼應一下剛剛那個張雅琳委員那這個部分我也有特別就是提這個修正動議"},{"start":7119.309,"end":7144.789,"text":"就是說在取用個人資料的當下其實應該是要得到當事人的同意但如果是被取用的資料的當事人他是未成年人那也必須要有當事人知情跟明確自主表示之同意那訂定自主同意之最低的年齡限制那若為不符合限制者就應該取得監護人的授權或同意"},{"start":7145.169,"end":7169.122,"text":"那在人工智慧研發跟應用的過程所收集的這些產生的這個未成年人的個資不得用於商業目的那這個部分是我們特別有提這樣的修正東西把它增加進去因為我想這個我們可能要把電力自主同意的最低的年紀限制是不是也應該要把它寫進去會比較完整好 以上"},{"start":7169.522,"end":7189.499,"text":"好 謝謝郭玉琴委員 接下來請林瑩璟召委 然後黃建豪委員 然後范雲委員 謝謝謝主席這條16條是我的版本的第14條那這條牽涉到當然就是各自保護機關也就是可能未來的這個個人資料保護委員會 那就是現在的這個籌備會"},{"start":7191.781,"end":7211.665,"text":"那本席在這一條有相當大的這個幅度的修正動議首先在第一項裡面我有加一些文字就是避免公務機關與非公務機關為不必要之個人資料收集處理或利用那為什麼要加這個公務機關與非公務機關這個基本上"},{"start":7218.627,"end":7242.478,"text":"是因為符合憲法法庭11憲判第13號的文字所以加這個可能在法律上會更加完整接著在第二項跟第三項本席希望在這個基本法就建立基本的AI濫用的避免原則這個是有關於即時的遠端生物辨識系統執法的部分"},{"start":7243.138,"end":7271.848,"text":"那政府除了啦重大的犯罪偵查啦或者預防重大犯罪威脅或者為防止國家遭受重大國家安全危害的目的以外不得於公共場合使用這個即時的遠端生物辨識系統來執法那而什麼範圍該當就妨礙第三項那就需參佐司法院法務部還有全國律師聯合會以及相關全國性社會團體的意見後定職有加這些文字喔"},{"start":7273.048,"end":7297.305,"text":"這個某個程度是確保這個它的這個正當程序然後它整個法規的調適因為它涉及高度的法律專業所以真的需要有法律的專業社群來參與這個規範的設計然後才能符合整個憲法保障的這個人權架構跟正當的程序原則所以我有加第二項跟第三項以上"},{"start":7300.621,"end":7318.76,"text":"好謝謝林警召委我們接下來請柯智恩委員黃建豪委員然後再來請這個范雲委員好謝謝召委那個第16條一開始想說個人資料保護主管機關好這部分的話因為按照個人資料保護法的主管機關是所謂的這個"},{"start":7320.541,"end":7339.471,"text":"這個個人資料保護委員會但是個人資料保護委員會目前看起來他還在籌備嘛他還沒有真正的成為一個主管機關那所以我要講說這一條部分我認為啦我個人建議說是不是要修正就不用特別去強調誰是主管機關然後主管機關來協助各目的事業主管機關就在我的認知裡面"},{"start":7340.712,"end":7353.528,"text":"各事業主管機關 各目的事業主管機關本來就應該要遵守個人資料保護法而不是說我還要再有一個上位的或是其他單位的主管機關來監管我任何一個任何一個單一的事業單位所以我要講說"},{"start":7360.422,"end":7380.145,"text":"擔心沒人管所以把它法條裡面如果入法的話如果有主管機關他本來就會來管這個事情就不用特別去強調把它寫在法律裡面法律裡面要強調這後面的條文但是我覺得第一段話是可以審去的以上是我的見解 謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員接下來有請范雲委員 謝謝"},{"start":7383.836,"end":7405.588,"text":"這個部分我的版本跟葛如君等就是今天那個版本我看到的那個差異就是在於倒數的那個兩句話就是葛如君委員這邊是並促進個人資料保護納入預設及設計相關措施或機制以回復當事人權益那我的版本這邊多了一個病因"},{"start":7406.488,"end":7427.165,"text":"促進個人資料保護納入預設及設計那我是覺得預設及設計相關措施非常重要因為像一般的隱私保護你如果設計的時候就是預設它就沒有的話那就會很危險所以這邊是不是強化把那個英字加進來就好了因為本來葛如荀等委員的都有促進"},{"start":7427.905,"end":7450.598,"text":"促进在我们立委来看有时候就会弱了一点到时候这个事业主管个人资料保护主管机关如果说我有促进可是做的不够我们就觉得加个英字会更好那这部分待会也听听主管机关的部分我是有点不确定刚刚黄建豪委员的那意见是不是可行等一下也请术发部等表达意见好"},{"start":7451.178,"end":7456.46,"text":"這邊我簡要謝謝范議員委員我簡要做個回應剛才有委員有提到這個兒少的資料個資那這一點我的一些意見是如果要針對兒少的資料個資做特別保護的話反而對於他們的個資是有風險的因為他很可能必須被特別標記那很可能就會造成未來有不肖的業者或資訊在處理傳輸的過程當中確實有可能反而有更多的隱患"},{"start":7479.531,"end":7491.916,"text":"所以我想不一定需要區分我們也相信主管機關應該會一致性的保護以憲法的平等為原則保護所有人的個資這是第一點第二點范議員所說的因這件事呢我反而覺得可能會過強的原因是現在很多人在討論所謂的資料可吸那所謂的可吸也是屬於個資的保護也就是說你所產出的資料是屬於你的但是這很可能也會有資料標記或儲存的問題"},{"start":7507.282,"end":7514.988,"text":"所以我想這個也許過嚴或過鬆都不宜或許我們就不一定要加注文字那在這裡我們是不是先聽一下這個速發部的這個意見那我們來看這一條是不是要修正或保留"},{"start":7526.396,"end":7540.629,"text":"關於這一條書發部基本上沒有特別的意見那我們會尊重委員那至於剛才范委員提的要不要加入英這件事情我們也尊重那個法院立法院的大家的意見謝謝好"},{"start":7542.67,"end":7561.291,"text":"這個張阿玲委員我想問一下就是未成年的這個個資化它其實是遵守一個資料最小化原則那這個部分我想請蘇發布就來回應一下這到底為什麼會造成所謂的標記的問題因為其實後面還有在加注的是一個財行風險控管的措施我的條文裡面是有這樣子的文字來 請次長"},{"start":7570.343,"end":7582.47,"text":"各支 這是各支籌備會的權限這個可能 我們今天有各支籌備會的人員列席啊有沒有 市長這邊是要表達意見嗎還是讓籌備會這裡籌備會這邊我們各支籌備會今天有"},{"start":7599.156,"end":7610.589,"text":"兩位有林益成組長跟曾傑科長是組長嘛對不對有這個謝謝你們都經常來練習那要不要有沒有意見來回應一下我們張阿玲委員對林益成組長"},{"start":7616.636,"end":7641.334,"text":"指科委員好這邊籌備處這邊稍微回應說各自保護的那個最小化原則它屬於一般性的通用性原則所以它基本上是屬於那種普遍通用性的一個規範它是跟那個可能跟特定目的的收集或者是一些法定室友的一個最小化保護的資料原則所以不會特定去限制一些特定專屬的對象這邊稍微做一個說明"},{"start":7645.131,"end":7645.894,"text":"好 范議員謝謝"},{"start":7648.035,"end":7674.787,"text":"因為在那個精神上我蠻支持張雅玲委員這個把兒少個資這個最小化原則放進去那但是我有點不知道它的影響然後您剛講那個通用化的原則那因為剛又有那個我主張要因然後召委覺得不要所以我建議這條保留好不好因為那個相關的影響大家可以再去找各方專家多一點討論就這條如果這部分沒有共識的話"},{"start":7676.055,"end":7700.086,"text":"我想謝謝范雲委員我想各自真的也是靈魂所以這一塊我這邊是可以用併音我可以把音加進去把范雲委員的意見納入進來那因為個人資料保護法個人資料保護主管機關這裡因為黃建豪委員剛剛有提一個建議所以是不是您可以回應一下"},{"start":7702.267,"end":7731.067,"text":"這個林組長這邊要不要回應一下你們到底角色是什麼因為我們是有的委員會很尊重你們啊覺得你們是主管機關你們要來協助其他主管機關但是有委員也發表看法說未必需要所以這邊是不是您在針對黃建豪委員的意見來提出一下看法那也許保留這一條這個說不定我們就可以修正通過不一定要保留"},{"start":7732.987,"end":7756.873,"text":"謝謝召委那這邊說明說組織機關立場的話基本上也是以協助各部會目的事業組織機關來做各自保護的一些法令上的諮詢跟解釋那些通信的原則的話我們會來做協助好我想這個黃建華委員的意見"},{"start":7758.12,"end":7782.313,"text":"我想其實應該也是要參採討論一下啦那看黃俊豪委員要不要再提出一下看法好謝謝張偉我的意思是說各支保護籌備處或是未來的各支保護委員會的職責本來就是要做這件事情那今天把這個個人資料保護主管機關應協助各目的事業主管機關入法但"},{"start":7783.746,"end":7810.673,"text":"這是本來就該做的那今天在這個法律裡面把它入法那其他的法案我沒有寫這一條的時候會不會就意味著我不需要處理這件事情他說他會拿說因為這條法律裡面有講說各自保護委員會需要來協助其他法律沒有叫我協助所以我就不用協助了嗎好 好不好 謝謝謝謝 那我們劉喜廷委員然後詹阿林委員我出個意見因為"},{"start":7813.409,"end":7841.751,"text":"應該是各目的事業主管機關都有機會用到AI基本法對不對所以把各目的事業主管機關變主持各目的事業主管機關應會同個人資料保護主管機關然後後面一樣就變成你在處理這些事的時候你要有一個會同的過程嘛然後變成大家都共同參與你就可以完成後面的這些內容我覺得這樣寫起來可能會比較流暢一些我除了建議給大家參考謝謝好那我們先往這邊修改看看好不好各目的事業主管機關會同"},{"start":7844.06,"end":7861.091,"text":"個人資料保護主管機關然後要陰嗎 陰在也不用就是在好我們先這樣試試看然後剛剛有張雅玲委員跟范雲委員這一條我想要先保留一下因為我想要因為這條是團體的意見我想要先跟團體討論一下范雲委員"},{"start":7866.621,"end":7886.314,"text":"就关于未成年人那个部分是不是也可以请国科会主委表达一下另外刚刚赵伟你说后面那个音要放进去后面漏掉了大家现在要保留了我们也许就保留到时候一起加谢谢 谢谢范语委员国科会主委这边 谢谢"},{"start":7888.079,"end":7901.945,"text":"我想好幾位委員包含張委員非常關心兒少的這個各自的這個保護但是我其實也要強調一點就是如果我們兒少的"},{"start":7903.626,"end":7920.827,"text":"就是他相關的一些研究不進行的話反而對他們是不利的將來我們在這個訓練這個AI的模型的時候如果空了這一塊會有很嚴重的影響反而做出來壞事我們都不知道原因是什麼所以我們在研究的過程"},{"start":7921.368,"end":7935.187,"text":"是資料盡量齊全會比較好但是我們要管的是在應用的時候怎麼樣讓這個保護能夠做得更周全那這一部分其實很多技術性的問題也許可以"},{"start":7936.543,"end":7956.955,"text":"我們這個速發部在制定這個資料資料應用的相關作用法的時候可以再強調一點好謝謝主委那我想這一條因為大家還是有一些不同的看法那我也說明一下就是張艾玲委員這邊對兒少的關注我想所有的委員都是一致的"},{"start":7957.375,"end":7979.682,"text":"那我們在第四條的第四項就有很明確的所有人的個資都要最小化這是第三項啦 對不起 第三項是資料最小化原則不僅止套用於兒少 而是每一個人的資料都應該是最小化原則所以這一塊可能在跟相關的這個單位在溝通的時候也許我們可以一起參採進來"},{"start":7980.802,"end":7998.571,"text":"那如果這一條大家的意見比較不一致的話我們是不是我們稍微有做一點修改啦但是因為還是有委員有一些意見我們是不是就先保留好那我們第16條進行保留那我們進入第進入第17條那第17條是241頁謝謝"},{"start":8004.236,"end":8020.993,"text":"李耕哲委員謝謝謝謝昭偉第17條是有關於勞工權力保障等一下也請蘇衛部來針對相關法令制定之後對勞工權力保障的基本原則跟精神"},{"start":8023.035,"end":8037.212,"text":"針對勞工權力保障,我們不能只把焦點放在失業或技能的落差我們更應該要看到工作內容,即使它是被拆解或是被重構"},{"start":8039.395,"end":8060.44,"text":"OECD就指出在AI的浪潮之下有14%的工作可能會消失那更重要的是有三成的工作它會被AI重新設計就是重塑它的工作內容那這個代表政府"},{"start":8061.792,"end":8084.409,"text":"未來不是只有輔導失業者而且主要還要盤點各種行業當中這種中高風險的這種行業的任務那要推動技能重訓跟職能轉型這個要跟勞動部來好好地討論一下那其實各單位我認為應該要積極地盤整AI發展對勞工可能產生了這種影響跟衝擊"},{"start":8091.094,"end":8113.194,"text":"而且要針對工作可能被AI取代工作可能需要重組或再設計針對性的提出因應的做法確保勞工的權益在AI快速發展上得到保障我們對勞工權益保障的方式不限於運用人工智慧"},{"start":8114.255,"end":8136.303,"text":"针对人工智慧可能造成的就业冲击政府也应该要提供相关的协助跟就业的辅导那请刷布来说明一下针对第17条你认为有足够保障劳工的基本权益吗还是要再跟劳动部来相关的对话协调提出更具体的一个说明以上"},{"start":8137.128,"end":8159.841,"text":"好 謝謝李昆澤委員那我們剛剛好像有林瑾召委然後接下來柯志恩委員那請次長待會準備回應好 謝謝主席這條是我的版本的第12條我想大家應該都非常的關心就是人工智慧會不會造成勞動權益受損的問題那所以國家如何確保"},{"start":8160.481,"end":8180.911,"text":"就是在人工智慧的讓朝下勞動者的職業安全衛生 勞資關係職業職場的友善環境跟勞動的相關權益就是怎麼確保這些東西就是一件很重要的任務所以我的修正動議有增添第二項這個第二項就是寫到說政府"},{"start":8183.198,"end":8194.063,"text":"為因應人工智慧發展應提升國民之人工智慧協作能力避免技能落差並確保勞動者之職業安全衛生勞資關係職業友善環境及相關勞動權益"},{"start":8198.445,"end":8221.56,"text":"那我自己提出了動議有建議說政府及公立就業服務機構應定其蒐集整理分析並公佈其業務區域內受人工智慧影響的行業及職業分布薪資變動人力供需以及未來的展望等資料要依據他的調查結果來訂定工作機會的開發計畫"},{"start":8224.342,"end":8249.74,"text":"這樣的例事其實是要求政府要資料化掌握我國受人工智慧影響的勞工族群那定期要提供這個評估那最後的第三項我有做一些修正就是政府應就人工智慧利用所至的失業者依其工作能力予以輔導就業再加上或提供相關補助這個"},{"start":8252.122,"end":8258.296,"text":"在於說政府對於這個人工智慧發展對失業者照顧的強化以上"},{"start":8264.315,"end":8282.568,"text":"好有关于这个劳工权益的维护我想大家都非常的关切啊特别是你凭技能的落差对于失业者的这个不管是辅导或者就业啊所以我的建议我有提出我的修正动议我认为第一项应该增加的文文字应该是政府应该积极运用人工智慧确保劳动者的劳动权益"},{"start":8283.308,"end":8302.515,"text":"并且防范人工智慧系统对劳工者产生过度监控演算法解雇剥夺工作尊严等情形然后呢第二项我们有修正那原定的第三项改为第四项就是第三项我们把它增列因为我们看到这个条文欠缺具体执行的一个机制"},{"start":8303.175,"end":8325.735,"text":"所以我个人认为应该建议增加因推动人工智慧转型下之产业职能盘点制度建立再就业职训补助跟追踪的制度那我想劳动部应该会同教育部跟述发部推动人工智慧转型之下的这个产业职能的盘点并且能够就这个就业训练的补助与这个媒合的服务"},{"start":8326.556,"end":8339.414,"text":"最重要是你也要建立这个年度职能落差分析报告的一个制度这样才能够应付这个整个大浪潮之下我们一些工人劳工的一些权益谢谢柯之恩委员接下来请陈秀宝委员"},{"start":8342.841,"end":8362.046,"text":"在这一条的版本是写政府为因应人工智慧发展应避免技能落差并确保劳动者之职业安全卫生劳资关系职场友善环境及相关劳动权益政府应就人工智慧利用所致之失业者一起工作能力与辅导就业"},{"start":8362.546,"end":8374.551,"text":"那在這個部分我們因應人工智慧的發展應用可能提升產業的產線的效率搭載機器人投入產線生產也可能導致勞工失業這個部分我也呼應一下剛才我們崑禎委員這邊的發言"},{"start":8379.053,"end":8382.938,"text":"我們應該要從寬認定因人工智慧所致失業者並且提供輔導提升技能等相當課程那除了請勞動部這邊我們來盤點相關的行業職業可能因為人工智慧投入而導致他們失業的這些群體之外呢相關的一些部會的資源例如像教育部啊我們"},{"start":8399.737,"end":8417.158,"text":"在什麼時候應該要參與跟投入來以利事業者再度進入職場保障民眾的工作權我覺得說這個應該要有一個很擴大層面的一個了解因為我們如何來協助這些可能因為人工智慧投入來"},{"start":8418.86,"end":8418.88,"text":"好,謝謝"},{"start":8443.482,"end":8450.81,"text":"謝謝陳秀寶委員那我們請市長然後看勞動部因為也有同仁列席是不是勞動部有沒有什麼建議有沒有什麼看法"},{"start":8452.784,"end":8479.818,"text":"OK 謝謝各位委員那剛剛許多委員都有提到就是人工智慧導致的那個失業的風險的確是一個非常嚴重非常必須認真對待的一個事情所以我是贊同說就如同這個第二段文字應該是加入就是政府營救人工智慧利用所致之失業者以其工作能力與輔導就業這段文字我們是書發部這邊是贊同的"},{"start":8481.539,"end":8501.215,"text":"那另外也要回應一下就是李昆澤委員剛才有提到就是我們在關於勞工這部分我們應該納入職業安全衛生還有勞資關係職場友善環境以及勞動權益等文字確保說我們在保障勞工權益的時候也兼顧到這幾項以上謝謝勞動部這邊有沒有檢要"},{"start":8510.839,"end":8512.18,"text":"我们劳动部这边有没有简要说明林专委"},{"start":8543.027,"end":8568.293,"text":"林專委好主席各位那個勞工部這邊的話就是基本上就是陳如剛我們速發部次長先提到基本上就是已經我們建議說就是要考慮到說競爭落差問題包括勞工群的保障這邊他當然也期望說把週延化就是把治安位保持關係這些勞工群都一併拉進來之外那剛針對針對輔導就我們覺得也很重要"},{"start":8572.754,"end":8601.726,"text":"其實剛剛幾位委員關切到說一些議題有的擔心說執行面會不會比較強但這邊兩部份 勞動部其實針對說因為演算法導致的解決問題基本上勞動部現在都有機制在做處理那當然一鍋肉監控這個問題我們有關注但是一牽涉到執行面的話有沒有說不夠明確的問題那我們是說這些原則勞動部都會去處理只是說我們另外就訓練這一塊的話才能智能盤點這一塊也都很重要因為目前出發部的確有針對說AI的人才基礎有建立規範"},{"start":8603.146,"end":8625.074,"text":"那我是建議說這個文字是不要特別寫勞動部因為現在AI的議題會跨部會那像產狀條例也清楚到說勞動部跟其他部會都在做職能基準所以是不是如果一定要提這些職能基準的這些等等是不是用政府這個字就好不要特別寫勞動部因為內部有些分工考量比如說政府就是用這個救福等等之類我們一起來做努力 謝謝"},{"start":8626.431,"end":8633.514,"text":"不好意思就是你們分工常常不太明確所以我們才會希望把條文裡面把它放進去那因為我還沒講這一條這條其實我的版本我跟幾位委員版本比較起來我覺得移情委員那個就是要求那個報告然後柯志森委員要求跨部會跟那個注意監控的部分還有秀報委員也強調就要不要進來嘛"},{"start":8648.459,"end":8672.488,"text":"那就是因為勞動部不想進來所以我們就要你們進來因為我們立委常在開協調會那這樣子就應該寫在法條中因為這件事情真的需要跨部會合作啦所以我也贊同剛剛朝偉覺得這條有點繁複那是不是能夠保留讓他把大家這幾個很重要的精神因為AI時代這個勞動者的權益怎麼保障不會只有職業訓練有好幾個面向謝謝范議委員我們要再次"},{"start":8678.145,"end":8693.301,"text":"對行政院還有速發部再次嚴厲的表達譴責之意啊勞工是所有人心裡最軟的一塊肉啊人工智慧最有可能衝擊到就是就業的問題"},{"start":8695.702,"end":8713.463,"text":"那到现在2025年8月份了台湾还没有一个AI基本法连草案都还没有送进来然后让我们所有的委员在这边每一个人的条文都非常棒啊我刚刚特别找啊离基委员讲的协作很好啊有提到劳动部要负责很好啊"},{"start":8714.344,"end":8718.186,"text":"我們沒有一條草案進來我覺得真的是希望我們的行政院要負起責任這個AI內閣是不是明天招牌要拆掉所以我想我們這一條我們就一一保留好不好"},{"start":8730.799,"end":8756.651,"text":"保留好謝謝那我們在保留的同時我們還是要說明我們這條保留的原因是因為勞工跟勞動非常重要而我們的中華民國政府到目前為止沒有提出任何一條人工智慧保護勞工的草案送到立法院來那我們在此保留謝謝那我們接下來進到第249頁"},{"start":8760.336,"end":8762.997,"text":"第18條那我們第17條是保留啊好第18條249頁哈有沒有委員有建議或說明好吳宗憲委員召委謝謝"},{"start":8786.961,"end":8801.929,"text":"有關18條的部分我是希望說能夠增訂一個第三項因為我自己版本22條的部分我希望說政府能夠鼓勵多元參與協助產業訂定"},{"start":8804.87,"end":8820.515,"text":"就是比較符合產業現況還有執行需求的執行規範因為我主要考量的是一些中小企業因為我們看了一下在2024年的那個中小企業的白皮書我們的中小企業家數在2023年已經突破了167萬4千家"},{"start":8823.576,"end":8838.621,"text":"然後比前一年呢163萬3千加多了2.5%也就是說我們是佔整體企業的98%以上但是因為中小企業它本身它有沒有這個能力去訂定這次我們希望說政府要能夠進來協助所以"},{"start":8840.522,"end":8858.038,"text":"我是這邊一個建議啦就是我們增訂一個第三項第三項就是政府應協助相關產業自行訂定產業指引及行為規範就我們課以政府一個這個義務能夠協助中小企業去做這個指引還有那個行為規範的訂定啦這是我的補充 謝謝"},{"start":8862.222,"end":8881.126,"text":"好謝謝吳宗憲召委那如果有文字我覺得也可以我們提出來說不定我們今天這個就可以把它納入那我再我再念一下好那請你打一下好不好好謝謝政府應協助相關產業自行訂定產業指引及行為規範及行為規範"},{"start":8892.794,"end":8899.877,"text":"對 我們科與政府這個義務好 謝謝好 謝謝吳宗憲召委那有沒有其他委員有有建議好 張雅琳委員 郭玉琴委員"},{"start":8910.18,"end":8925.021,"text":"到時候再見好 劉書斌委員那這部分我的文字應該是說政府要建立一套AI的風險分級制度像是哪些AI的應用比較安全哪些是高風險的這部分應該要參考國際的做法來主導讓台灣的AI政策能和國際接軌"},{"start":8926.263,"end":8948.012,"text":"那這個在根據各部會在根據這套分級架構呢針對自己負責的領域呢在制定更細的管理辦法那特別是說如果這個AI應用會使用到未成年的部分呢像是學生的學習系統或社群的互動平台那就必須進一步的設計預防限制甚至禁止的措施所以我這一部分呢其實是在第二項後面有增加了"},{"start":8948.892,"end":8963.526,"text":"原本是各目的失业主管机关得依前项分级框架定定其主管业务之风险分级规范我新增了并得就涉及未成年人之高风险应用制定预防限制或禁止措施好谢谢张爱玲委员我们接下来请郭玉琴委员然后刘苏冰委员"},{"start":8972.779,"end":8999.33,"text":"好這一條我們也有提那個修正動議喔那也是針對這個未成年人喔那我增訂的部分是這個政府應針對未成年人推動人工智慧相關產品與服務之使用年齡認證機制以落實風險分級強化使用人工智慧產品時之保護措施確保未成年人身心安全喔這個部分我們是把它增訂在這個部分"},{"start":9000.43,"end":9015.723,"text":"我想就是比較重視在兒少或者是未成年人的部分好 以上好 謝謝郭玉琴委員那我們范雲委員然後 對不起 劉淑冰委員然後范雲委員 然後徐一貞委員"},{"start":9016.738,"end":9022.826,"text":"好 在這個第18條當中民眾黨的一個意見是有重視到剛才大家都有講到說風險的一個框架但是我們重視更重要的是風險必須要有評估的一個機制"},{"start":9031.798,"end":9050.013,"text":"所以那個風險的評估機制呢是必須把它放進去的那另外呢我們本黨就是針對這些部分呢其實有關於在風險這邊我們希望說不是只有官方的代表希望說有成立的一個委員會有主管機關召集人工智慧官方剛才之前有存過的一些委員會呢來做一個風險評估的一個諮詢會議啦那這個諮詢會議的當中呢就可以把這些部分包括產業代表放進去的時候呢就可以比較對於這個"},{"start":9060.602,"end":9089.012,"text":"評估的部分能夠呈現出來較多元而且是適合業界的這樣子一個意見能夠呈現出來好謝謝劉淑貴委員 范瑀委員然後徐益臻委員 謝謝關於風險這部分因為葛如軍委員等是一條十八條嘛那我跟好幾位委員我們其實都更細欸十十一 像我的是在第十條 第十一條 第十二條我看林益菊委員等的也是喔"},{"start":9089.372,"end":9110.541,"text":"那我是覺得因為風險管控其實就是一個目前最大的問題那我自己是認為這個應該要用更嚴謹的態度就是我們知道的不管是歐盟等都是更嚴謹的所以這個級別然後加上怎麼樣的方式去識別等等"},{"start":9111.281,"end":9128.21,"text":"那这部分因为我有三条所以我是建议这个保留因为我觉得18条只用一个简要的好像太简化一点那因为风险分类这是一个蛮最重要我认为很重要的这个治理那这部分我就不一一讲了谢谢"},{"start":9134.403,"end":9151.353,"text":"有關第18條是有關風險分級框架的一個條文設計當然它的核心精神就是在全球AI治理還沒有形成固定的模式之際讓台灣能夠提前跟國際接軌建立科學分級還有可調適的建立體系避免"},{"start":9152.693,"end":9170.836,"text":"沒有秩序的創新或監管真空造成對人民的權利社會秩序跟國家安全的潛在的風險當然我們知道人工智慧的應用範圍非常的廣可以說每個領域面對的風險的形態也截然不同有的關乎資訊的隱私有的操縱市場的穩定或輿論的操控所以面對這麼多龐雜多元的一個AI的應用場景"},{"start":9179.478,"end":9202.498,"text":"政府沒有辦法依風險程度做出分級管理只用一體試用的方式這樣不是過度的前置創新就是放任風險的蔓延那因此我要求這個主管機關應該主導建立國家級的風險分級制度並與國際接軌確保我們的制度能被世界的接受與信任當然未來無論是這個跨境的數據"},{"start":9203.539,"end":9224.097,"text":"或者技術出口或人才交流台灣都能夠站在同樣的治理語言跟法規的準則上進行對話那當然同時我們也知道各部位面對AI應用的情境也不同所以也沒有單一的一個標準可以一體適用因此本條文也明文授權各目的主管機關能夠依據主框架設計自己的風險分類"},{"start":9225.558,"end":9248.824,"text":"跟管理办法例如卫福部可以针对AI诊断工具制定安全跟透明的要求交通部可以对自驾车感知与决策系统定力风险分类那金管会也可以对AI理财跟性品的模型设下监管的门槛那这种的设计就有同意的原则但保有弹性才是真正符合治理逻辑的制度安排谢谢"},{"start":9249.184,"end":9256.287,"text":"好 謝謝徐宇珍委員我想在這邊簡要的回覆有非常多委員都提出非常好的建議我們的統合版這裡也把分級改成分類但是當然各種的討論也都有同時剛剛有委員有提到現在歐盟做風險等等有非常多條等等"},{"start":9269.833,"end":9284.107,"text":"我在這裡也要跟各位分享現在從六月份日本通過的是AI促進法是以競爭力為優先七月份美國通過的AI action plan也是以競爭為優先"},{"start":9285.848,"end":9306.806,"text":"到七月之後跟著五天美國發布了之後的五天呢中國大陸也推動了這個所謂的人工智慧的全球治理那當然他們就是以管控為主啦那同時呢我們還是要回過頭來歐盟的法規呢在八月理論上要上路但是他們也對於過去的保護框架有所疑慮"},{"start":9307.947,"end":9326.484,"text":"可能在各國之間也會有不一樣的一個狀態出現所以我想這一條我們是不是就以保留好不好我們第18條我們就保留因為這個風險的部分我們理解在如何在開放促進的同時我們也做到風險的保護"},{"start":9328.386,"end":9348.031,"text":"但是剛剛所提到的兒少在第六條有提到那前面的條我們待會都還要回去所以我們這個前面大家就會發現有非常多的保護的條款在前面那我們到第十九條我個人的建議是這樣因為剛剛已經有提到非常多風險分類風險分級還有各種的檢測還有條件還有部會等等"},{"start":9354.252,"end":9369.625,"text":"我們第十九條其實跟第十八條算是一個延伸關係啊那既然第十八條我們予以保留了我想這個我們第十九條我們就保留吧就等於是風險的部分其實我們前面待會還會再回去review我想大家也會對後續的這個風險條文會比較有掌握好不好那我們是不是張雅玲委員謝謝"},{"start":9376.391,"end":9405.484,"text":"因為我在這一條裡面看到大家有人講分級有人講分類那速發部或是國會會可以說明一下你們自己覺得怎樣子的方式是比較好嗎好那是不是請市長OK關於分級與分類這主要是來源是在於說美國跟歐盟對於AI控管的想法非常不一樣那我們都知道歐盟幾年前就推出了那個AI基本AI"},{"start":9408.266,"end":9427.322,"text":"他們在歐盟的這個法案裡面他是對於風險有非常明確的分級但是後來發現說其實在實際上的使用上發生了會有一些疑慮第一個是說尤其是以美國那邊為首他們認為說過多的法律規範會阻礙創新過多法律規範會阻礙創新那再來就是說因為"},{"start":9432.386,"end":9451.786,"text":"歐盟當初在訂他們的那個EU AI Act的時候其實還沒有LALM、Chad GPD還沒訂出來雖然他們通過是在Chad GPD出來之後但是他們在擬這個法案的時候並沒有考慮到那個LALM造成的那個衝擊所以那個美國那邊呢他們的看法一直認為說是要做那個風險的"},{"start":9454.707,"end":9469.427,"text":"分类框架就是政府指出一个分类框架并不做明确的限制像欧盟他有明确的定出说有哪些类型的AI是属于不可接受也就是禁止的包含那个潜意识监控"},{"start":9470.127,"end":9490.658,"text":"包含利用臉部辨識來判斷一個人的種族包含用AI進行社會信用等等 它是明確禁止的那後來也如同剛剛葛委員剛剛有講到就是在日本還有韓國還有新加坡後來的立法也都是偏向於美國式的 就是做分類而不做分級"},{"start":9492.158,"end":9505.029,"text":"這個是整個大的概念我們現在速發部在進行的方式我們希望的是說我們在AI基本法裡面是做比較一般性的宣示與規範然後速發部這邊會做風險分類的框架然後實際上"},{"start":9512.876,"end":9523.726,"text":"在AI的應用上面的那個風險的那個實際的立法作用法也就如同剛剛徐宇珍委員所講的那個就是我們速發部現在的想法就是說譬如說關於自動駕駛的風險應該由誰規範這個應該是由交通部去定就是說萬一這個自動駕駛的車輛出現那個車禍的時候到底是車廠要負責任還是駕駛人要負責任那同樣衛福部在用"},{"start":9539.859,"end":9564.927,"text":"這個AI輔助醫療的時候他怎樣去設定就是說怎樣哪些是禁止哪些是可以允許的同樣的到時候如果發現發生糾紛的時候到底是醫生要負責還是由這個AI廠商負責那同樣金管會等等其他的也都是部會也都是各自去做那個實際作用法的立法這是我們目前那個速發部的規劃以上報告謝謝好"},{"start":9567.108,"end":9572.973,"text":"謝謝林靜次長我想我們這一條這個第19條他這個條是有點不一樣但是我想也就是做風險的分類還有相關那我想在這邊我們這一條我們就先保留但是我還是要在場還是要再次的對行政院"},{"start":9589.227,"end":9609.536,"text":"還有速發部提出提醒跟譴責因為剛才次長的說明非常完整啊顯見速發部以及次長雖然部長今天沒有來我們相信也對於這些問題都做過很深入的研究了那究竟什麼原因我們的草案到現在沒有辦法送進立法院外界甚至有傳言說有的政黨有檔案魔人"},{"start":9612.697,"end":9630.714,"text":"那今天大家都很和平的在這裡討論條文啊顯然可能不存在黨案謀人黨啊 黨駐的黨啊在立法院那是不是有黨案謀人在其他的地方我們是真的不希望看到所以再拜託我想我們這一條就先保留但是風險我們大家都希望討論的也謝謝次長剛剛發表就確實啊這個國際的風向"},{"start":9634.537,"end":9646.483,"text":"希望能夠以創新為主風險還是要顧但是創新為主這個也謝謝次長提出那我們進入這個第20條第20條就是原本的19條在第313頁那這一條我想就是"},{"start":9654.951,"end":9676.09,"text":"政府應於本法施行後等等等等這是一個比較基本的條文那有沒有委員有說明意見好 謝謝吳宗憲召委保留了 我們剛剛保留了"},{"start":9677.677,"end":9690.627,"text":"對對保留了對好就是我們的就我們今天病到19條啦修正動醫的19條啦病到我們的修正動醫的19條但是因為這都是風險的這都是風險的"},{"start":9694.823,"end":9720.195,"text":"對對對 所以因為剛剛的第18條保留了因為我們再次譴責我們的行政單位沒有草案送出來現在2025年的8月4號沒有草案送出來所以導致我們的調製真的非常的辛苦所有的委員 不分黨派我想我們都非常希望我們的政府趕快出一個草案出來那請吳宗憲召委 謝謝謝謝 就是第20條的部分就是"},{"start":9721.135,"end":9738.617,"text":"不是不是 20條耶我們現在修訂的 政府應於本法施行後對 我們現在調製因為有增訂20跟21 所以變成中信委員你想要提的應該是所謂的最後一條 就是20"},{"start":9740.816,"end":9748.882,"text":"現在討論是倒數第二條啦現在討論就是這一條313頁因為你這一條是講說漁本法施行後嘛那這個我覺得很不錯但是你們看一下那個海洋基本法第16條其實它對於這個部分它是有一個時間的規定的海洋基本法16條它其實它對於這個法令它不會說讓你"},{"start":9770.559,"end":9790.818,"text":"讓你就是漫無目的什麼時候要做什麼都沒有那他16條還有提到各政府機關應於本法施行後兩年內那所以說我覺得既然海洋基本法有這個規範那我們的人工智慧基本法是不是我們第20條也可以加一個時間限制那請各位看一下大本的315頁315頁我原本提的第23條的草案"},{"start":9796.903,"end":9823.702,"text":"第二三條草案就是在315頁政府應依本法規定這段開始我是想說因為跟我們20條的第一項其實內容類似那可不可以用我這個草案的那個23條第一項的那個內容我們把它加一個時間在本法實行後三年內麻煩看一下315頁"},{"start":9827.494,"end":9851.181,"text":"315頁我的23條第一項的那個文字可不可以20我們的現在你這個螢幕上顯示出來的20條的第一項可不可以換成我這個草案的第一項然後有一個實現的規定因為這個在其他基本法有這樣但是我們的基本法卻沒有那變成說他愛怎麼樣三五年後我不知道那是不是我們一個規範"},{"start":9853.478,"end":9868.927,"text":"謝謝吳宗憲召委這個我們文字上要不要先修正一下好不好幫忙修正一下然後我們試試看那我現在一邊念就是從就等於是第一項的部分改成吳宗憲委員的政府應依本法規定是嗎檢討所主管之法規及行政措施分號"},{"start":9884.161,"end":9909.677,"text":"分號有妨礙人工智慧政策推動頓號不符合本法規定不符合不符合本法規定本法規定或無法歸可知適用者逗點這個各位可以看315頁大本的"},{"start":9911.991,"end":9937.478,"text":"可適用者 逗點 因自本法施行後三年內 逗點完成法令之制 制服的制然後左括號 右括號 定定定的 定定的定然後左括 然後定定的定 言字旁"},{"start":9939.281,"end":9948.929,"text":"然後右掛號 定頓號 修正或廢止 逗號修正或廢止 逗號 僅行政措施之改進"},{"start":9966.461,"end":9993.571,"text":"我補充說明一下喔就是就是說沒關係 這個我們先寫啦反正就會保留啦我補充說明一下為什麼要這樣是因為就像剛剛主席說要譴責行政機關一直都沒有任何動作那再加上我們之前在審查法條的時候我們在面對行政機關它常常都是再研議然後就沒有就沒有然後了所以我認為說我們有一些要求是要訂一個期限不能開放式的讓它愛做不做都可以這樣"},{"start":9993.991,"end":10001.816,"text":"那剛剛您是提兩年現在這裡是三年三年我剛說的是海洋基本法兩年海洋基本法是兩年那我想說我們就定一個三年因為還是要一個我們給它更寬好那沒關係這個我們只是在這邊給大家參考因為這一條看起來大家好像也還覺得要討論我們是不是就先保留了好不好我們先保留了謝謝吳宗憲 昭偉那我們是不是這一條"},{"start":10022.816,"end":10039.104,"text":"就保留了 好 我們就保留好 那我們第21條就是我們的修正版的第21條是本法自公佈之日起施行那這也是標準條文那這一條有要對 翻譯委員"},{"start":10041.075,"end":10068.693,"text":"我剛剛看一下我們那個第326條的資料其實也蠻多委員包含民眾黨版 邱若驊版 張家俊版還有我跟我們很多委員的版本是說由行政院定之那為什麼是這樣子因為其實各自委員會建的主管機關都還沒成立嘛所以這邊是不是有點彈性而且就是11個委員的版本是由行政院定之只有8個委員版本是那個"},{"start":10069.955,"end":10071.518,"text":"公佈之日起好嗎好謝謝范雲委員那第21條呢有沒有其他委員有意見好 牛許廷委員"},{"start":10085.543,"end":10109.665,"text":"我看了一下召委的修正動議大家都簽名了嘛國民黨黨內基本上都簽名了所以應該是公佈日施行那當然確實會有各自委員會還沒有成立的問題但我覺得不能因小施大基本法本來就是規範原則性的綱領嘛那你政府本來就要通過之後趕快來制定相關的一些配套措施所以我想公佈日施行應該是沒有關係啦我是比較傾向是公佈日來做施行以上 謝謝"},{"start":10110.834,"end":10126.357,"text":"好在這裡這一條我也是支持這個我們的修正版本本法自公佈之日起施行我要再表達一次這個對於行政單位我們是希望鼓勵但是對於"},{"start":10127.765,"end":10151.956,"text":"我們有不少委員提出版本以後又撤回那到了現在已經2025年的8月4號了我們在施行日的這一條竟然還沒辦法設立出去我真的非常擔憂真的會變成國際笑話所以我的建議是不是我們這一條"},{"start":10153.317,"end":10169.467,"text":"可以通過這個徐宇貞委員謝謝謝謝昭偉請問一下昭偉我們現在討論的是您的第還有我的第20條就我們修正版本的第21條然後修正的版本是第21條"},{"start":10171.696,"end":10186.787,"text":"對對對所以說你現在就是第21條不好意思對我們再次嚴厲的譴責我們的這個行政單位沒有送任何草案進來好羅廷偉委員謝謝好支持昭偉這個部分希望今天能夠用這個版本通過好劉淑冰委員"},{"start":10192.213,"end":10217.771,"text":"我們要特別澄清一下因為剛才范雲委員有提到說我們民眾黨的這個黨團的提案是這邊那這個部分因為當初是以在吳欣盈委員她在上一屆的這個內容那這部分的話目前我們本黨的話是希望說在 AIG 本法的部分已經在落後在國際而且雖然是以創新為主的情況之下這邊應該是要改成是應該就公佈之後就要生效這樣子 謝謝好 謝謝好 市長 謝謝"},{"start":10222.386,"end":10245.987,"text":"因為這件事情還是牽涉到各自委員會的成立的狀況所以速發部這邊還是希望能保留 謝謝雖然吳宗憲委員臨時不在但是我還是要講速發部你們的草案到現在還沒有送出來現在又要有一個理由連我們最後如果公佈的時候"},{"start":10247.557,"end":10268.841,"text":"都沒有辦法依公告日期施行那台灣根本就在AI持續沒有法治啦剛剛大家的風險討論勞工保護 兒少保護全部就因為一個個資保護委員會我們讓行政院來決定什麼時候施行嗎所以我是真的希望所有的我們是不是這一條我們可以通過啊是不是 好"},{"start":10272.622,"end":10295.44,"text":"好 同意 那如果是這樣的話我們想我們這一條就予以通過那我們希望我們的行政單位爭取時間我們希望我們的行政單位爭取時間不應該用任何理由來拖延應該要進行的行政責任我們再一次分享給各位2018年賴清德總統擔任行政院長的時候說台灣AI行動計畫"},{"start":10298.682,"end":10324.467,"text":"2019年 2018年行動計畫2019年就有草案出來了人工智慧基本法草案現在已經2025年了所以我們希望這一條可以通過好 那我們是不是這一條沒有啦 保留啦最後一條呢 大家意見不同嗎我真的要再次表達如果我們連法案施行都沒有辦法在法案通過以後來施行的話我們這一部法"},{"start":10327.146,"end":10354.554,"text":"兒少的保護 個資的保護勞工的保護我們剛剛到底在討論什麼對啊 可是要法令完善嘛法令完善行政單位到現在草案都還沒有辦法送進來啊對啊 所以我的意思是說因為其實一開始很多委員也是有提說是本法制行政院來訂制嘛對啊 所以我的意思是說那其實也不是說只有民進黨的委員版本是這樣"},{"start":10358.675,"end":10375.003,"text":"大家意見不同反正我們今天也那麼和諧是不是最後一條我們也就保留好不好其實我想最後一條相對單純相對單純就是公佈日期實行我覺得這應該也是符合現在的一個世界的一個趨勢李沛翔委員"},{"start":10376.75,"end":10392.886,"text":"我認為這個案子在最後一條的話如果是因為這個知維末節然後阻擋了整個法案的話我會覺得很可惜所以我會支持國人居民召委的想法這應該是婚佈之日自己實行而且時間不等人當全世界那麼快速的變動的時候其實這樣對我們非常不利"},{"start":10394.071,"end":10413.968,"text":"謝謝林培祥委員 外美林委員 然後黃建豪委員 謝謝好 我也簡單的表達就是支持召委的就是本法制公佈之日起實行謝謝外美林委員 黃建豪委員 謝謝我有修正動力啦所以我也當然支持本法制公佈之日起實行如果又要等行政院定制這行政院定制不知道要拖到民國幾年"},{"start":10415.089,"end":10431.656,"text":"所以我想大家如果前面的法條應該保留這麼多條那如果討論完到時候保留完討論完有共識送出那它就可以自公佈施行了嘛就不用再等另外再拍一次間大家再協調的時候定制了所以我認為就是按照本法自公佈執行以上"},{"start":10432.116,"end":10451.626,"text":"好 那我想我們現在這份那個葛如君委員等人之修正動議裡面包括剛剛有提到張家俊委員也有簽這份新的修正動議我們的第21條是本法自公布日期施行那我們就照葛如君委員等修正動議通過"},{"start":10455.115,"end":10469.701,"text":"張偉 張偉 漫榮書發佈再發表一下意見好不好就是對於所謂的公佈域施行或者行政院定之可以講 但是我要再次說明行政院到目前為止沒有任何一個草案送進來"},{"start":10471.022,"end":10496.973,"text":"速發部到目前為止沒有任何一個草案送到立法院我想我們立法院每一位立法委員我們要堅持的是人民的權益是以及人民的保護好請市長謝謝我們要力求這個立法的完善啊好那說明一下當然我們速發部這邊還是希望能保留那當然這件事情還是要尊重各位委員的意見謝謝好"},{"start":10502.182,"end":10510.289,"text":"就是我們來看原本的版本除了邱若驊 張嘉芬不在場之外羅廷偉版本也是寫遊行都簽修正動議了還有民眾黨等等那大家是都簽修正動議了剛才民眾黨也表達支持羅廷偉委員請說 謝謝"},{"start":10521.439,"end":10550.02,"text":"剛剛講那個個資會如果沒有通過成立的話那我們在那邊硬公佈施行到底是什麼意思主管機關這部分都還沒有確定啊好謝謝范雲委員劉柯天鵝委員謝謝范雲委員有點名到我那幫范雲委員更新一下我有簽修正動議所以我是支持葛如君委員那對於速發部以及行政部門現在這樣子的一個態度呢我是非常沒有信心所以我覺得以現在的版本修正動議我是最佳的所以我支持"},{"start":10551.527,"end":10571.498,"text":"好 謝謝羅庭委員 外媒林委員 謝謝謝謝昭偉 我兩點第一個 本來我們就是在做討論嘛那這個審查討論 那我們也簽了修正動議本來就是可以調整跟改變的我想這是每一位委員在這裡審查的時候應該有基本知識那第二個就是說 次長 速發部的次長其實剛剛昭偉 這個 次長"},{"start":10577.662,"end":10597.819,"text":"這個剛剛張偉就是請您回答其實是要回答說您怎麼看到底是要從公佈之日起施行還是有別的想法但看起來你沒有說半個原因跟你的想法跟你所想法的根據你只有說我就是只是這樣的贊成我覺得稍嫌草率那是不是能夠你更說明清楚一點好不好"},{"start":10598.419,"end":10611.975,"text":"周委市長我們先讓市長說明好不好這個范雲委員的意見我們都非常清楚啦不是不是我是要提議休息五分鐘大家討論一下到底這條AI沒辦法休息了啦不要再因為我們教文委員過去有不同的意見我們都會尊重嘛那為什麼這條要強硬這樣"},{"start":10617.12,"end":10631.912,"text":"對不起 這個請那個范議員也尊重我這邊好不好因為我希望讓次長能夠說明白因為剛才其實他並沒有回答問題的核心輕率的帶過我們不能理解啊所以我們還是請次長做說明 謝謝好 次長麻煩我想 我已經"},{"start":10641.007,"end":10647.253,"text":"我已經表達我們書發部的看法那抱歉因為今天我們部長不在然後我在這邊就是說"},{"start":10652.799,"end":10675.433,"text":"對 部長去參加APEC那個部長會議那這個會議是五年才辦一次那因為上次遇到疫情已經有十年沒辦了所以今天部長沒有來那這些事情就是我已經作為次長我已經表達我的看法但是我在沒有得到充分授權的狀況下我只能講到這裡所以次長你今天是沒有充分授權就來開我們的會是這樣嗎"},{"start":10677.634,"end":10694.853,"text":"不是完全没有授权那到底授权到什么程度我不太理解你讲的意思对不对部长请假我们已经觉得说这个请假好有这么重要的会议那也没关系但你来到这个地方你却没有被充分授权那到底授权到什么程度我们应该跟你讨论到什么样的程度呢我们"},{"start":10698.804,"end":10711.803,"text":"市長請回應 謝謝那我再次表達我們部的立場我們部的立場就希望這一條保留或者是原先以行政院公布的這個版本這是我們部的立場 謝謝主席"},{"start":10713.291,"end":10740.828,"text":"另外一位委員 謝謝好 謝謝肅發部表達他們的立場那我也要表達我們自己的立場我們的立場就是希望這一個應該要通過因為我們已經等不及了我們尊重部長去參加APEC很重要但是現在的這一個AI基本法也很重要那我們所以在這邊堅持到底那我們從六月一直等 等不到這不是完完全全沒有等待沒有尊重那我們希望事不宜遲是不是請"},{"start":10742.289,"end":10748.794,"text":"趙偉趕緊處理好 謝謝我想主席在這邊才是就是第21條我們依照葛如君委員等人提案人等提案人修正動議通過主席這個我是覺得我們教文委員會過去從來不會這樣強硬才是因為明顯有不同的意見那我可不可以提議休息五分鐘大家討論一下一分鐘之後如果還是這樣的意見我們就尊重趙偉嘛"},{"start":10770.729,"end":10784.345,"text":"范議員 請尊重召委過去四年民進黨是多數的時候我們也沒有這樣子不保留就才是的好不好我們就尊重大家好好討論就是盡量以共識出去范議員"},{"start":10786.487,"end":10806.44,"text":"過去可能也不會有這樣子一個法案七年了一個草案提不出來上一次6月2018年賴清德行政院院長推出AI行動計畫市長明明是有準備嘛他每條都有他的意見啊他們沒有提出來啊他們沒有提出他們的草案啊"},{"start":10806.88,"end":10808.802,"text":"我們待會還要回去討論名稱各位知道為什麼嗎因為六月份我們在做審議的時候"},{"start":10826.94,"end":10844.631,"text":"有某一些委員用各種的理由來推遲我們相關議案的審議連名稱都要討論連章節第一章都要討論到現在我們還沒有辦法往前推進所以所以我們想要對不起好我提醒謝謝我提醒一下"},{"start":10851.115,"end":10879.388,"text":"因為我們待會還要回去討論名稱我們還有第一條到第十一條的保留范瑀委員是不是尊重一下召委讓他講完好不好召委不尊重我們教文委員過去好好討論的傳統嗎你可不可以問一下克森委員過去教文委員會不會這樣子嗎好嗎麻煩尊重召委好謝謝那我想我們第二十一條我們主席才是就是趙葛如君委員等提案人修正動議通過"},{"start":10882.492,"end":10905.062,"text":"好 那我們現在主席有一個問題是因為目前已經討論到主席版本的這一個到21條了看起來好像結束不過我們還要回過頭去我們會回過頭去我現在只想說我希望說因為我們本黨還有從33條到39條這邊呢有 那我們希望說也保留因為到時候可能有協商等等的可以再進去"},{"start":10906.343,"end":10909.426,"text":"沒有 我們先回去討論 因為 對對對對好 那雖然我也很想休息但是我想我們AI真的等不了我們啦那產業跟這個學界還有全世界都在關注台灣一直在賣AI的設備"},{"start":10925.018,"end":10949.987,"text":"晶片但是我們台灣完全沒有任何一個AI的法治框架所以我們是不是范議員簡要發言然後我們就回到名稱我對周偉不尊重教文委員過去好好討論就是明明知道有不同的意見卻不願意保留就裁決強硬通過這件事情表達抗議那這是我個人的聲明好 謝謝范議員那我們接下來我們回到我們在先前有"},{"start":10954.649,"end":10978.731,"text":"章節我們有名稱還有第一到十一條進行保留第十三條保留然後我們今天有討論第十三條保留十六條保留十七條保留依據我現在念的條次呢是依據我們的國務軍委員等提案人的修正動議的條次第十八條保留第十九條保留跟第二十條保留以及各章名謝謝"},{"start":10981.021,"end":11002.496,"text":"那還有民眾黨黨團的第33到39那我們現在先回去討論我們的名稱好那我們就回來我們謝謝教文委員會有相關的整理那我們先做這個法案名稱"},{"start":11003.837,"end":11015.405,"text":"那法案名稱我們在六月份的討論是保留的那有沒有其他委員還有另外要提出的建議如果沒有我想我們就人工智慧基本法好那我們就人工智慧基本法我們就照"},{"start":11030.034,"end":11055.954,"text":"就照修正通過我們這個法法案的名稱就是人工智慧基本法那再來第一章的章名第一章章名第46頁那有賴世保委員有提一個總則那民眾黨黨團有提一個總則那因為賴世保委員也有簽我們這份修正動議啦所以"},{"start":11059.681,"end":11082.419,"text":"看民眾黨這邊有沒有特別意見或者我們就保留好那如果民眾黨沒有特別意見我們也許就照修正通過我們不必我們就不處理我們就不理採納好謝謝那我們接下來進入第一條第一條的話我們是"},{"start":11085.759,"end":11089.524,"text":"没有呀 之前不是都保留吗之前不是都保留吗"},{"start":11091.601,"end":11113.787,"text":"因為我想這個協商也是很需要效率的我們希望不管是在行政院還是立法院都不會有檔案磨人協商磨人所以我想剛剛我們的這個本來的保留的賴思寶委員已經簽修正動議了那我們看我們再回到這個"},{"start":11118.288,"end":11142.141,"text":"所以我們就進入第一條好不好我們剛剛第一張張明已經是不予採納了好我們現在是在第一條喔對 謝謝張艾玲委員第46頁我想大家每一個委員對於上次其實都會有不同的意見有不同的版本嘛所以我覺得盡量不要用檔案魔人這個字來去稱呼因為我覺得這樣子對於大家來好好討論這不是一個有幫助的方式"},{"start":11142.441,"end":11161.67,"text":"好 謝謝張雅玲委員我要講一下如果有檔案磨刃的話上次我們那個不議一旨的話是怎麼樣討論的我們是不是尊重在場不同的意見請周偉你不要失意這不是上一屆的事是這一屆的事好 謝謝范瑀委員那我們現在在第一條進行討論"},{"start":11163.751,"end":11188.204,"text":"不好意思 昭薇我們想了解一下你現在是要把保留的部分在這個委員會今天再一次我們先過一次如果還是要保留我們還是可以保留可是問題是我還是要提出來因為我們今天被告知是從第13條開始所以1到12條我們要保留部分我們勢必也還要再回去做一些review再回去了"},{"start":11188.464,"end":11213.393,"text":"我觉得保留通常以过去的方法你当你做保留我想祖密在这边做保留就是到委员会出委员会之后的时候那才是叫保留的定义不是在这个地方我还是先提示一下过去我们的做法招委还是可以召集协商就不一定要到院的协商谢谢非常多位委员还有先进提出的想法建议我想"},{"start":11215.214,"end":11233.786,"text":"我們剛剛有提到名稱跟這個我再念一次所以我們上一次有1到名稱以及1到11條我們上一次的會議是保留的然後包含今天討論的第13 16 17 18 19 20那以及各張名那如果委員沒有意見還有台灣民眾黨的第33條到第39條"},{"start":11244.693,"end":11273.493,"text":"那如果我也沒有意見的話我們過去保留的包含第一到第十一條還有名稱還有各張名我們就保留那我們送院會處理就是協商協商然後對對對送協商對好送協商好那這樣子大家有沒有意見好好那我們有三個謝謝好謝謝各位委員那我們三個附帶決議"},{"start":11278.988,"end":11295.444,"text":"好 那我們螢幕上展示出三份附帶決議那從附帶決議我相信大家也都可以看得出來部分黨派所有委員都非常積極的希望人工智慧基本法可以通過那這個第一份附帶決議是由"},{"start":11313.197,"end":11331.864,"text":"那這個附帶決議由柯志恩委員提出有謝榮介委員、葛如軍委員、劉淑冰委員、林沛翔委員都提案那部會沒有意見那我們附帶決議通過那另外呢也有張雅琳委員還有這個應該是我們這邊先提嗎"},{"start":11336.265,"end":11354.009,"text":"好 那我們看螢幕上是詹阿林委員的附帶決議是關於兒童及少年的身心發展及人權福祉那要進行相關的評估那這個我們是非常認可的也希望我們的部會可以盡快的來進行那這個部會應該沒有意見主委"},{"start":11366.147,"end":11380.735,"text":"啊我那個報告召委啊有有好好如果照建議修正就對那OK"},{"start":11383.539,"end":11412.326,"text":"我們建議修正啦因為國科會是負責研發我們的業務那這邊是在施行的時候應用的時候會碰到的問題所以我們回到行政院我希望就是以行政院科技政委的身份來督導我們的速發部國科會衛福部教育部等等啦就幾個部會要在行政院去討論來處理這個事情那依照這個修正的意見"},{"start":11413.146,"end":11431.495,"text":"好 謝謝那我們這個附帶決議有建議修正主席不好意思剛剛你有宣告說第七條的附帶決議就是柯之恩委員的這個附帶決議你有宣告說通過可是第七條我們本文是保留的所以附帶決議也應該一起保留才對啊本文沒有通過結果你附帶決議通過也很怪好不好 不好意思"},{"start":11437.208,"end":11459.973,"text":"好 那提案柯之恩委員 那我想我們就附帶決議也就保留謝謝林警召委的提出那張雅琳委員有提到的這個附帶決議那因為她沒有提到條文的特別的名稱啦 特別條文那為確保人工智慧等等 那也有稍微做了建議修正"},{"start":11460.473,"end":11475.979,"text":"那是以行政院科技政委指導數位發展部會同國科會教育部衛福部以及其他機關等等那條文的修正條文已經在科技政委沒放進來啊這個不是啊這個這個他手上我們同仁這裡手上好像沒有啊"},{"start":11488.305,"end":11509.385,"text":"好 那我代念好不好 代念那來不及打字的 我們就試試看那有建議修正的附帶決議為確保人工智慧應用同時兼顧兒童及少年的身心發展與人權福祉請行政院科技政委督導數位發展部"},{"start":11510.306,"end":11535.796,"text":"會同國科會教育部衛福部及其他相關機關於本法三讀通過後三個月內完成兒少影響評估人權影響評估性別影響評估並將評估報告公開發布供各界參考另請數位發展部研議建立常設性評估與評估機制"},{"start":11538.217,"end":11556.031,"text":"以定期檢視人工智慧應用對兒少權益人權及性別之影響持續強化其保護措施提案人張阿玲委員林怡瑾昭委范瑩委員陳秀寶委員郭育晴委員好"},{"start":11558.646,"end":11586.579,"text":"好那我們是不是就這個附帶決議案建議修正通過那還有也有另外一份附帶決議也是修正的那建議修正的呢是提案人是葛如君葉元之柯智恩吳宗憲委員羅廷偉委員萬美玲委員洪孟凱委員以及劉書斌委員要求行政院科技政委督導數位發展部會同國科會"},{"start":11588.553,"end":11613.458,"text":"頓浩教育部 頓浩衛福部於本法三讀後三個月內針對AI之應用完成兒少影響性評估及公開相關報告以供各界參考並研議建立相關機制以便未來定期進行相關評估及調整相關評估以保障兒少身心健康及權益好"},{"start":11614.554,"end":11636.553,"text":"我想我們求同存異那這個附帶決議這兩份是稍微有點相近的我們是不是請市長有沒有相關意見沒有其他意見沒有其他意見謝謝好那這個附帶決議也按照建議修正通過好謝謝好"},{"start":11640.495,"end":11660.707,"text":"那我们今天的审查结果免于重复宣读在不影响条文文艺前提下文字条字以及标点符号为统一体例授权意识人员修改列入记录未予采纳条文授权意识人员确认"},{"start":11661.687,"end":11675.27,"text":"那關於今天會議做如下決議對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料後衛及答覆部分請相關機關緊述與書面答覆人工智慧基本法草案"},{"start":11676.874,"end":11705.243,"text":"以全部審查完略請問是否交黨團協商要那我們須交黨團協商並按擬據審查報告提請院會討論院會討論時由葛兆吉委員儒君補充說明本次會議事務授權主席確認後及上傳立法院全球資訊網公開報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"},{"start":11708.985,"end":11709.006,"text":"好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}