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請一下陳經的主委 請陳主委"},{"start":13.348,"end":38.725,"text":"委員長主委好有關於淨零碳排的議題我們屢屢在公共工程委員會的質詢上面多次的要求工程會要逐步的落實的執行那尤其是在淨零碳排的這樣一個議題早已經是世界各國的共識而且在經歷進來的這樣的一個國際局勢的動盪不安的狀況之下"},{"start":43.629,"end":58.609,"text":"這樣一個國家的面對這樣的一個局勢相關的碳排以及再生能源韌性的加強再生能源體系的建立更是國家未來重要的一個議題"},{"start":61.133,"end":82.56,"text":"國家也定定2050年進行碳排的這樣一個重要的目標但是我們看到綠色採購有關於相關的金額啊歷年來都不足1%那這個相關的成效不彰啊早已經是社會各界議論的一個主要議題來請主委簡單說明一下為什麼效果這麼不好"},{"start":86.715,"end":105.888,"text":"台灣每年碳排大概兩億六千萬噸或兩億七千萬噸其中能源使用包括發電佔了大概三分之一公共工程大概佔了百分之九那麼碳排這件事情因為能源使用所以必須排那本來就是一件很難處理"},{"start":107.389,"end":132.934,"text":"的工作所以台灣雖然小但是重視這個在全球要減少碳排這樣的一個需求上面進行的規劃所以管理公共工程方面除了我們現在在建置的碳排係數希望在設計階段納入考量之外未來我們再加強兩個部分一個在重大的公共建設的基本設計審議階段"},{"start":135.254,"end":162.388,"text":"工程會會要求設計主辦機關呢將這個碳補桌那麼納入考量或者是公共工程委員會受邀協審重大公共建設在國發會的階段也會提出相同的要求換句話說我們希望重大的公共建設那麼他在設計階段就要把碳補桌減少碳排的設計納入否則的話我們不會通過我想這個源頭來處理"},{"start":165.931,"end":183.849,"text":"針對2050年的淨營碳排 公共工程委員會也有公共工程節能減碳的計畫主要是分成三大部分來做一個實施第一個是收集公共工程各項排放係數這個部分初步已經完成"},{"start":184.429,"end":206.428,"text":"那第二個階段是碳排資料庫也預計要在今年底來完成那這個部分其實是分成三個部分第一個是收集各公共工程的這樣的一個排放係數那這個資料我看2024年5月之後就沒有再更新過了"},{"start":207.108,"end":233.686,"text":"第二個工作的重點是碳足跡的資料庫這是由環境部來主導那環境部主導之後他的資料驗證及導入再移到這個工程會就是我們的要建立試算的一個系統那這個2026年才招標系統什麼時候會建置完成什麼時候會開放使用 主委說明一下"},{"start":235.354,"end":254.358,"text":"我首先說明就是這個係數的統計是逐步的啦現在大概有2000多筆那麼將來系統會提供給主辦機關做設計使用那至於如何開始我想請副主委來說明我們這個排放試算系統預計要到2027年才要上線測試這個遠比荷蘭的落後10年了"},{"start":261.66,"end":274.969,"text":"來 副主委說明一下好 謝謝委員那剛剛委員提到那個碳排氣數的更新我想在大概一年以前我們的碳排氣數大概只有1030幾筆經過這段時間跟這樣收集各部會的資訊然後同時再去查證之後我們現在已經累積到2000多筆"},{"start":282.914,"end":301.327,"text":"那另外這個我們那個碳排的減碳的那個系統其實是要嫁接在我們目前的那個PCCES系統上就是價格估算系統那因為這個系統其實也有一定時間所以我們大概同步會做兩件事情一個就是把現在那個PCCES這個系統把它做一個進版升級版"},{"start":301.967,"end":330.666,"text":"讓他更好用讓他更準確度那同時因為這個PCCS就有相關的這些工項工項之後除了有價格之外我們就會再疊加那個我們所收集來之後驗證的這些碳排的係數那所以因此各單位到時候在起計畫的時候其實他就可以一方面算出他的那個預算的規模合理預算規模另外一個就是他可以知道說他那個碳排係數是多少那這樣來一起來控制預算相關的程序我們都清楚"},{"start":332.067,"end":351.424,"text":"相關的時期的建置我們也都清楚但是這樣的一個效率實在是太低了這個請陳主委必須要加緊的督促另外我們要建置這種排放的試算系統我認為就是應該要參考荷蘭的獨波克系統"},{"start":352.418,"end":378.775,"text":"那他們這樣的一個公共工程在荷蘭他們利用試算系統建立獎勵的制度不只是推動試算的這樣的一個計算的方式出來而且是要有獎勵的機制那荷蘭在2000年的時候開始使用這種突破課的系統2017年他們就導入線上的數位管理了"},{"start":379.892,"end":401.778,"text":"他們強制規定政府採購千萬歐元以上的工程都必須要採用而且試算的結果要納入投標的文件之中那工程排放來做分級的這樣的一個處理更重要他有一個虛擬折價的這樣的一個系統跟方式那"},{"start":403.393,"end":422.533,"text":"荷蘭它有一個部門叫基礎建設與水資源管理部他們2000年運用這個系統2017年開始導入這種排放的管理的數位管理那依照工程他們建立一至五級的這樣一個分級"},{"start":425.109,"end":428.974,"text":"分別可以虛擬折價1至5%就是說這種虛擬折價假設這種工程的業者他們投標金額是1億那"},{"start":436.997,"end":463.871,"text":"如果該業者能夠取得虛擬折價的一級那就可以減少投標金額的1%五級就是5%那有效的讓這種要建立排放減碳的這些業者能夠取得投標的一個優勢那這樣的一個公共工程委員會對於未來資料庫跟試算系統建立之後"},{"start":465.1,"end":483.694,"text":"如何要進行推廣以及運用有沒有初步的規劃來請說明一下目前公共工程委員會辦理金職獎的頒獎這個金職獎在押標金啊履歷保證等等都減少而且投標也會加分金職獎裡面有關於這個ESG的部分"},{"start":486.596,"end":505.054,"text":"是平分的那ESG裡面呢排碳是納入他的項目所以呢減碳這件事情如果具體做的話對他承攬相關工程是有優勢的是目前在進行的好這是一個重要的方向政策的方向那我必須要具體的建議了我們"},{"start":506.638,"end":526.275,"text":"在正式公開進行測試要採取這種逐步的而且是滾動檢討的方式來做實施的一個方向核算系統是本來就有提供給機關在基本設計審查的時候去規劃他的成本預算用現在是嫁接"},{"start":527.275,"end":548.232,"text":"另外就是說我們也要邀請業者來進行測試除了協助收集數據以及掀起輔導業者使用之外也可以同步的來收集業者使用的一個經驗提前來發現系統不良以及不足之處來進行相關的一個改善"},{"start":548.772,"end":576.27,"text":"好的這個我們會逐年那麼陸續跟業者呢就主辦機關互動然後來回饋一些意見來做修正另外最後的一些建議也就是2026年我們要進行相關的這些未來推動的規劃那包含系統的公開試用推廣以輔導到最後強制的這一種採用的期程規劃"},{"start":579.232,"end":605.951,"text":"強制採用的範圍對象金額規模的試行以及全面採用必須要分階段來實施那我們要逐步的來導入這種獎勵或者是剛才主委所說的金字獎或者是來研擬一下虛擬的這種折價或是其他相關的獎勵措施那而且我們要開放資料"},{"start":606.732,"end":606.832,"text":"好 我們要"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}