{"error":false,"id":["168445"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168445,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168445","日期":"2026-04-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-13T09:49:57+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-13T09:58:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5655ee4938da65e18e6fcdffed0ca094306a382356a5b219291cfc8066c9e4d9dff3bbbc96e0e24c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:49:57 - 09:58:56","會議時間":"2026-04-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查委員賴瑞隆等20人擬具「貪污治罪條例第十二條條文修正草案」案等6案。\n二、繼續併案審查委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第八十三條條文修正草案」案等29案。\n三、併案審查委員黃捷等19人擬具「中華民國刑法施行法增訂第八條之三條文草案」案等16案。\n四、併案審查委員王育敏等18人擬具「民法第一百九十七條條文修正草案」案等3案。\n【開會事由二至四僅進行詢答】\n【詳見議事日程】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":0.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.11471875,"end":5.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.54034375,"end":8.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.130343750000002,"end":12.332843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.67034375,"end":19.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.90971875,"end":25.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.934093750000002,"end":46.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.44971875,"end":60.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.31659375,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.38784375,"end":73.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.25596875000001,"end":118.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.45596875000001,"end":88.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.42596875000001,"end":123.85971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.51784375000001,"end":128.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.96034375,"end":131.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.09096875,"end":129.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.09909375,"end":132.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.92596875,"end":144.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.02096875,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.22284375,"end":155.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.48346875000001,"end":172.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.47659375,"end":185.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.60096875000002,"end":191.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.49909375000001,"end":195.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.70096875000002,"end":209.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.36534375000002,"end":212.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.36471875,"end":215.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.18284375000002,"end":217.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.43596875,"end":216.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.61721875,"end":218.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.41034375,"end":220.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.46909375,"end":239.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.52534375000002,"end":270.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.33034375,"end":299.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.44409375000004,"end":317.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.87159375000005,"end":318.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.31034375,"end":322.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.73596875000004,"end":328.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.54096875000005,"end":337.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.76721875000004,"end":346.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.13846875,"end":338.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.17971875,"end":344.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.84596875,"end":347.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.21721875000003,"end":356.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.56596875,"end":357.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.93721875,"end":357.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.21971875,"end":375.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.80346875000004,"end":380.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.96346875,"end":385.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.96284375000005,"end":382.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.96221875000003,"end":388.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.68346875000003,"end":397.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.13346875,"end":402.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.77846875,"end":401.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.04409375,"end":418.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.24221875,"end":403.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.30471875,"end":408.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.59471875,"end":415.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.80971875,"end":443.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.08346875,"end":420.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.14721875000004,"end":445.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.10909375000006,"end":458.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.57534375,"end":466.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.50659375000004,"end":478.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.72409375,"end":498.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.78409375,"end":511.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.78659375,"end":513.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.7778437500001,"end":522.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.7722187500001,"end":536.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.5603437500001,"end":528.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.12534375,"end":530.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.86346875,"end":534.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.50409375,"end":536.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.5378437500001,"end":536.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.90909375,"end":537.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.87096875,"end":538.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.69346875,"end":539.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.8115937499999,"end":540.6384687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":4.218,"text":"謝謝主席 有請馮次長好 請馮次長"},{"start":13.565,"end":34.575,"text":"市長這兩張截圖是來自法務部調查局和內政部的警政署的通緝犯的查詢系統那涉及88會館地下會對案的林秉文他在2024年的時候棄保潛逃了潛逃期間他還可以玩臉書PO文大家都很好奇這麼高調的通緝犯那背後到底是有多大的靠山在挺呢"},{"start":35.655,"end":60.356,"text":"但是這個調查局的系統上面寫的說可能潛逃的地點是洛杉磯我先請教次長通常法務部是如何去判斷可能潛逃的地點跟委員報告其實我們所屬的這個調查局或廉政署或者他們在偵辦案件之中他們會依照他們的權責去處理那法務部在個案上不會去做這樣的一個判斷"},{"start":63.035,"end":79.581,"text":"所以您不知道是怎麼樣去判斷他的潛逃力就是說我們在那個檢查機關裡面會針對各個案的一個狀況來做不同的一個好 次長 那我就繼續講就是說我相信所有人都看到今年3月下旬這一堆新聞那標題不外乎是洗錢教父林秉文在柬埔寨身中了29槍後身亡那臉孔還被這個砍到面目全非由於他背後牽扯的這個太多黨政人士了"},{"start":91.986,"end":112.496,"text":"而且關係複雜牽涉無數的高官跟顯貴並且他的犯行涉及巨大的金流因為他號稱零百億但是他中槍身亡臉部被砍到面目全非之後先前所涉及的詐欺洗錢案這些罪行人事物最後都可能一筆勾銷會去公訴不受理撤銷通緝所以我要請教次長在這樣的狀況下"},{"start":118.9,"end":123.635,"text":"這則訊息林秉文死亡他的真實性是否變得很重要呢"},{"start":124.791,"end":148.188,"text":"跟委員報告 當然我們法務部的這個政策他對死亡真實性是不是很重要非常重要非常重要 那次長林秉文在通緝期間高調的PO文那檢調依舊找不到人那以為他在美國逃亡嘛 剛剛跟檢調的這個資料結果他出現在柬埔寨欸那林秉文一死 人事實例五馬上被報導"},{"start":149.729,"end":154.931,"text":"這反差也太大了吧 這個反差留給大眾很多的想像空間所以我要請教次長 如果報導資訊是屬實 身中29槍而且面目全非 那真的能確定本人嗎台灣跟吉普賽之間並沒有司法互助合作請問警政署跟法務部要怎麼去查核通緝犯是否死亡 請簡單回答"},{"start":172.777,"end":185.563,"text":"那這個部分這個案件的相關的一個細節其實柬埔寨的這個警方都表示還在上代調查所以在這個部分上會很慎重的去處理是這個真實性的部分這邊回答委員的問題"},{"start":186.67,"end":215.375,"text":"那我先就請教有沒有比對過指紋跟DNA你曉得嗎這個部分柬埔寨的檢方他們會做進一步的一個去調查這就是我的重點因為我要下一個就要請教你到底是我們的警方檢方去做採樣的呢還是說完全仰賴柬埔寨警方提供的資訊而已柬埔寨不也是被視為詐欺王國之一嗎林秉文要買通人來詐欺有困難嗎市長你覺得柬埔寨資料就可以了嗎"},{"start":216.395,"end":236.93,"text":"你現在還在等 但是難道他們給你的資料你就全信了嗎跟委員報告 就是說我們國的這個駐胡志明市的這個辦事處兼轄這個柬埔寨的外管人員還有警政署的刑事局駐該地的聯絡官都共同的在瞭解 而且協助家屬處理指認跟後續的事宜"},{"start":237.37,"end":246.317,"text":"這部分會慎重處理請委員放棄市長這個我還有下面的要請教你通緝犯炸死不是沒有先例2000年前台銀箱裡陳守福他倒賣了10.2億的這個公債被通緝他的妻子還聲稱說接獲陳守福在中國車禍死亡的消息"},{"start":256.664,"end":278.633,"text":"但是陳守樸卻在中國把錢洗到美國最後他是因為超過這個追訴期給予不起訴處分那去年5月台中地檢署針對這個大川警署詹姓男子發布通緝隔月就收到他在柬埔寨新吉耿塞死亡的消息那為了防範這個炸死所以等待家屬他把遺體空運回台後那鑑識人員也到現場去採證指紋"},{"start":284.256,"end":297.47,"text":"檢體比對那確認他是本人之後才予以不起訴處分所以我接下來就要請教次長你剛剛都沒有回答到這個重點負責偵辦林秉文案件的新北地檢署是否也應該採取一樣的做法呢"},{"start":299.745,"end":317.117,"text":"跟委員報告地檢署有這個相關的一個作業我們法務部這邊會請地檢署慎重看待這個案件那在於說跟委員報告就是說警方的一個部分警政署對這個案件也會很重視那事實上真實性這個部分上一定會做強加的一個檢查這部分請委員放心"},{"start":318.682,"end":336.922,"text":"你就是要具體的方法啊就是人家是這麼做在做確認啊因為涉及到境外上的一個犯罪的一個偵查其實我們的警方在國外執法你也做得到啊而且這麼重大他牽涉的背景我剛剛一開始就把他的背景告訴你牽涉的這個黨政人士這麼多牽涉的金額這麼大是"},{"start":338.223,"end":357.482,"text":"然後面目全非你可以說他已經死亡了嗎這個東西不是這不是可以隨便可以做決定的你要確認是他本人喔市長這件事情我會繼續再追查下去那市長檢察總統被提名的徐錫強回答民眾黨的問卷你有看過他的問卷回答嗎我有看過你有看喔"},{"start":359.284,"end":367.39,"text":"請教次長 今天是次長代表徐貝提名回答到有一句話說在過去會看到的司法關說或上級施壓已經不太看到了請問這個次長徐貝提名所謂的上級施壓你認為具體內容是什麼是怎麼樣的施壓法"},{"start":377.008,"end":397.176,"text":"徐貝提名人他的一個說法白紙黑字他說過去的司法官說他上級施壓現在已經不太看得到了那你認為他講的上級施壓是什麼呢我認同我們這個徐貝提名人的一個說法因為我們在辦案上以我擔任檢察官的工作裡面我也從來沒有遇過上級長官的事情"},{"start":397.216,"end":419.603,"text":"你沒有遇過那你知道嗎他這樣子寫啊他在白紙黑字上這樣寫那你知道嗎有沒有上級我想徐備提名人他一定也是在當檢察官的過程中一定都是嚴守我們的證據我們看都是看證據啦也看程序然後也會注意保障人權文不會去看說什麼長官來施壓我們就改變我們的看法這是檢察官基本的注意好 次長次長那我們請暫停一下謝謝"},{"start":420.563,"end":443.246,"text":"你難道忘了彭坤業案嗎?當年黃國昌立委揭發時任高檢署長官、檢察官彭坤業在桃園地檢署期間接受前任法務部長那時候他擔任國安委諮詢委員邱泰山官說這個不法利益超過5億成為法界的一大醜聞市長你知道哪些機關曾提出就這個案子?我剛剛講這個案子有提出報告跟新聞稿嗎?你知道嗎?"},{"start":445.176,"end":457.929,"text":"你不知道?好,那我讓次長看次長你看高檢署有提出調查報告啊監察院有提出這個新聞稿啊但是最終怎麼樣呢法務部就讓彭坤業提早退休免罰官逃過一劫"},{"start":459.711,"end":477.817,"text":"這就是法務部處理的方式嗎?你能接受這樣的結果嗎?連承認法務部部長帶頭關說都來進行關說,那人民怎麼能相信檢調系統不存在上級施壓呢?所以面對這麼大的事件被護航,難怪人民對司法信任度一直都是三成多,我就形容的死當啦"},{"start":478.917,"end":498.727,"text":"那次長您今天是代表部長來行政司法最高的機關就是法務部那您今天代表次長部長我想請教你你是否願意真的認真去面對思考如何改變不要只求任內無事可以平安下莊好嗎我今天給你很具體的資料喔"},{"start":500.05,"end":527.031,"text":"我們是那個常務次長是文官沒有安全下莊的問題就是我們如果說要講的是政務官的部分其實以法務部的角度來看您今天就代表部長出席代表部長出席只能回答部裡面相關問題我們還是如果說談論到說安全下莊的話那我們這個次檢察官我是希望大家都沒有這樣的心態我今天就是把資料而且就一五一十的就分析給您聽"},{"start":527.831,"end":537.384,"text":"那我們希望很多事情要務必求真嘛那沒有上去 這個要把司法的這個低分嘛使到的分數要把它搶辦法把它贏回來嘛好 謝謝市長謝謝謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}