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首先要非常感謝我們文委員對於我們這個貪污之罪條例的這樣的一個就是看到了這個法重情輕的這一個部分那事實上前一陣子社會各界裡面像電鍋案還有一些案件都有一些這樣的一個聲音出來那本部也非常的重視因為事實上就如同委員所講的就是說五萬元以下然後有時候這樣子在一些"},{"start":167.612,"end":195.321,"text":"情节这个就是说很轻微的一个状况之中是不是都用贪污条例一律适用这个部分确实造成了大家一些的讨论那法务部这边也很重视那目前我们提出的相关的这样的一个也说免除期刑的部分跟委员的版本这也是相同的那我们这部分在本席是要请问就是为什么你们这么久都没有送到立法院法案出了行政院的原因是什么"},{"start":195.421,"end":212.135,"text":"我們現在目前的案子還是在行政院這邊你們經過審查了嗎已經審查完畢了嘛 對不對已經審查三次了審查三次都還沒有定論都還沒有定論是行政院不支持還是哪一個單位不支持我們會盡速來處理這事情"},{"start":212.816,"end":236.766,"text":"是你們現在處理的腳步真的是非常非常緩慢那麼其實這個本席已經也觀察到很多的這個相關的修法的草案還有辦法那都押在行政院那我不知道說這個行政院為什麼不尊重你們法務部的意見更何況我覺得這個案子是有社會共識草野也有個別委員都有提出來"},{"start":237.646,"end":256.876,"text":"這個沒有什麼太爭議的案子應該行政院就要儘速送出來那常常都是因為行政院沒有對案法務部沒有對案送到立法院然後呢我們大家在討論的時候當時看起來沒什麼問題結果等到三讀通過之後馬上又有外界可能有"},{"start":258.597,"end":285.513,"text":"人會攻擊說這都是某某委員的提案那其實法務本身有提案啊所以本席希望說法務部應該要盡速的去催一催行政院很多重要的法案不要壓在行政院那包含接下來我們要討論的這個刑法八十條的修正案也是一樣的其實你們行政院在二零二六年一月二十九號就已經通過刑法第八十條的修正草案了嘛"},{"start":286.053,"end":304.002,"text":"但是這個案子也沒有送到立法院來有嗎跟委員報告現在2月9號的時候會嫌司法院那所以現在問題是卡在司法院嗎可以請司法院廳長說明一下嗎這案子現在是卡在司法院嗎"},{"start":306.144,"end":322.114,"text":"是 報告委員那個行政院他在2月9號發文司法院在2月10號收到他彙嫌的函文那我們經過36個工作天已經在4月10號統一彙嫌並函附行政院所以這個部分本院已經統一彙嫌"},{"start":323.24,"end":347.713,"text":"那這36個工作天針對這個追逐權失效它所涉及的重要性以及相關爭議來講我認為是合理的時間比如說我們好了解了所以謝謝司法院已經在4月10號就回覆了因為這個基本上根據本席了解大法官其實現在也在受理相關的案子那麼如果說我們能夠加快腳步把這個所謂的比較不合理的條文修正的話那我想其實也就不勞"},{"start":348.633,"end":374.159,"text":"這些五人大法官要再去做出所謂的違憲的判決那麼這個部分的話希望行政院能夠盡速將刑法八十條的修正案提到立法院來因為我們今天只是第一次開始進行詢答等到之後進行審查的時候本席希望就已經能夠看到法務部的版本可以嗎 請問次長"},{"start":377.598,"end":396.023,"text":"會跟行政院這邊去報告這件事情一定要嚴正的反映這件事情那針對這個議題本身還有一個問題想請教就是因為我們知道其實證據的重要性但是在性侵案件裡面尤其是未成年的性侵案要求被害人陳述必須要有補強證據這時候可能會很困難尤其是我們現在等於說追訴權從"},{"start":401.845,"end":422.458,"text":"18歲以後才開始這個計算的話那麼事實上如果案件是發生在20年前常常這種監視器或是生物的樣本都已經消失了所以在這裡是不是有可能可以參考國外的經驗針對延遲揭露的案件延遲揭露的性侵案件可以調降補強證據的門檻"},{"start":425.936,"end":439.109,"text":"跟委員報告就是說補強證據的部分各體檢署的檢察官在偵辦的時候他會依照這個實際的一個情況來做一個判斷就在這一個部分上是不是要多強的補強他們在個案中會做一個審慎的一個判斷"},{"start":439.966,"end":461.455,"text":"是 那本席是希望說能夠借助就是參考國外的經驗然後另外一個就是可以調降補強證據的門檻還可以透過專業的司法心理鑑定來作為法庭上面有效的補強證據那這部分的話不曉得刑事庭庭長這裡是不是可以接受類似像這樣的一個國外的做法"},{"start":462.686,"end":481.551,"text":"是關於這個證據法則的部分呢這個尤其是關於性侵害被害人他所做的陳述不得作為唯一證據那確實有補強法則的適用那關於這個補強法則他同時也是實務上在適用上他常常會有一些寬延不等的這種認定那關於性侵害補強法則其實"},{"start":482.771,"end":508.938,"text":"我們很願意參考所有國外的見解以及大法官關於這個補強法則所揭示的適用那以及他對於被告所造成的影響來做綜合通盤的考量那這部分其實最高法院在補強法則的適用上也有相關的見解我相信他可以均衡的去保障這個被害人的訴訟權以及被告的訴訟權OK很好那我本是希望說這個刑法八十條如果順利通過的話相關的配套措施要請法務部還有"},{"start":512.28,"end":536.943,"text":"這個司法院法院這邊都能夠從被害人的角度出發然後給予更多的在證據上面的有利的一個判斷好那最後一個問題我想請教就是說是一個結構性的問題就是有關於檢察官的上訴權其實這個可能也是我們接下來立法院所要推動的這個有關於羈押抗告是不是要限定次數或者是說應該就直接由法院自為"},{"start":537.763,"end":553.244,"text":"裁定的這樣的一個修法的規定那麼我想請教次長你是不是支持限制檢察官的上訴權包括羈押裁定的抗告還是只是憲據就是程序違法才能夠上訴"},{"start":554.224,"end":574.965,"text":"跟委員報告跟委員報告其實我們的這個上訴的制度它是整套的那我們實務上也常常會發現說這個不乏說有時候一審他是判無罪二審有罪然後這樣有時候這個層級上雖然多但他最終會發現到真實所以我們在這個檢察官的甚至上訴權"},{"start":575.966,"end":602.874,"text":"這個部分也可能會這個產生就失去監督這個法院的一個裁判功能這個部分上就是說它有通盤性的一個考量所以上訴權這個我認為還是有必要所以你們到現在還是認為是有必要不過我想這個議題因為也引起社會的關注就是檢察官是不是有這個押人取供的情況而且同時呢不斷的這個針對羈押的裁定抗告"},{"start":605.332,"end":619.438,"text":"行使抗告這個其實相當程度也是對於被羈押人他的權益可能會造成一定的侵害一定的影響所以因為已經有不少委員有提案"},{"start":620,"end":644.115,"text":"那麼看是之後針對欺壓抗告的次數做一定的限制或者是說是由上級法院自行來決定那這個議題我覺得是接下來我們會要持續關注的而且重點關注的議題那也希望法務部能夠儘速的要針對這個議題提出你們的看法然後甚至修正版本好不好好 那我以上今天詢問就到這邊 謝謝好 謝謝歐文 謝謝司長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T09:59:15.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T09:59:15.477000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T09:59:15.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T09:59:19.200000+08:00","text":"首先請法務部馮常次。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T09:59:20.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T09:59:20.361000+08:00","text":"麻煩次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T09:59:20.361000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T09:59:24.266000+08:00","text":"馮次長好。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T09:59:24.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T09:59:57.569000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員們提案說明這次為什麼要修小額貪污相關條文，最主要是鑑於去年曾經發生32元的二手電鍋案，這個案子其實也引發社會廣泛的討論，而且又讓大家回憶起以往屢見不鮮非常、非常小的金額所謂侵占財物相關的案子。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T09:59:59.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:00:11.061000+08:00","text":"我們知道其實因為在現行的貪污治罪條例底下，最輕本刑五年以上的侵占職務上的財物罪，這樣的條文規定就有點像是用大砲打小鳥，尤其是5萬元以下，對於國民的法律情感來講，認為相對來說這個惡性是比較低的。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:00:11.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:00:51.214000+08:00","text":"當初貪污治罪條例的制定就是為了要治貪腐，用重典，結果沒想到因為基層人員常常會不小心可能觸犯這樣的罪而受到嚴重的處罰，我們剛剛也都說了，其實大法官在釋字第790號、112年憲判字第13號裡面都已經指出，不論情節輕重，一律課以重刑是違反罪刑相當原則。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:00:51.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:01:29.719000+08:00","text":"但我們知道法務部事實上先前在113年也提出了修法，至少本席看到你們在114年9月份的新聞稿裡面就有提出法務部針對貪污治罪條例第十二條有修正草案，請問為什麼你們當時在113年5月31號已經送到行政院審查，114年8月15號也完成審查，這個案子你們到現在都沒有送到立法院，時隔將近兩年的時間，原因是什麼？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:01:30.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:15.338000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，首先非常感謝翁委員對於貪污治罪條例看到法重情輕的部分，事實上前一陣子社會各界像電鍋案還有一些案件都有這樣的聲音出來，本部也非常重視，因為就如同委員所講的5萬元以下，有時候在一些情節很輕微的狀況之中，是不是都一律適用貪污條例，這個部分確實都造成了大家一些的討論，法務部這邊也很重視，目前我們提出相關免除其刑的部分跟委員的版本也是相同的，我們這部分在行政院審議……","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:15.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:24.121000+08:00","text":"本席是要請問為什麼你們這麼久都沒有送到立法院，法案出不了行政院的原因是什麼？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:24.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:26.303000+08:00","text":"我們目前的案子還是在行政院審議中。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:26.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:28.124000+08:00","text":"你們經過審查了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:28.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:29.445000+08:00","text":"已經審查完畢了對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:30.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:32.007000+08:00","text":"對，已經審查3次了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:32.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:38.513000+08:00","text":"審查3次都還沒有定論，是行政院不支持還是哪一個單位不支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:39.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:02:41.115000+08:00","text":"我們會儘速來處理這事情。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:02:41.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:03:59.255000+08:00","text":"你們現在處理的腳步真的是非常非常緩慢，其實本席也已經觀察到很多相關的修法草案還有辦法都壓在行政院，我不知道行政院為什麼不尊重你們法務部的意見，更何況我覺得這個案子是有社會共識的，朝野也都有個別委員提出來，這個沒有什麼太爭議的案子，行政院應該就要儘速送出來，常常都是因為行政院沒有對案、法務部沒有對案送到立法院，然後我們大家在討論的時候，當時看起來沒什麼問題，結果等到三讀通過之後，馬上外界可能又有人會攻擊說這都是某某委員的提案，其實法務部本身也有提案，所以本席希望法務部應該要儘速催一催行政院，很多重要的法案不要壓在行政院，包含接下來我們要討論的刑法第八十條修正案也是一樣，其實行政院在2026年1月29號就已經通過刑法第八十條的修正草案了，但是這個案子也沒有送到立法院來，有嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:03:59.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:03.197000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現在2月9號的時候會銜司法院。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:04.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:08.960000+08:00","text":"所以現在問題是卡在司法院嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:08.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:11.681000+08:00","text":"可以請司法院廳長說明一下嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:11.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:13.002000+08:00","text":"這案子現在是卡在司法院嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:15.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:31.054000+08:00","text":"報告委員，行政院在2月9號發文，司法院在2月10號收到會銜的函文，我們經過36個工作天，已經在4月10號同意會銜並已函復行政院，所以這個部分本院已經同意會銜。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:33.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:41.245000+08:00","text":"這36個工作天針對追訴權時效所涉及的重要性及相關爭議來講，我認為是合理的時間，比如說，我們今天……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:41.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:04:44.666000+08:00","text":"好，了解了，所以謝謝司法院，在4月10號已經回復了。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:04:44.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:05:03.454000+08:00","text":"因為基本上根據本席了解，大法官其實現在也在受理相關的案子，如果我們能夠加快腳步把比較不合理的條文修正的話，我想其實也就不勞5位大法官要再去做出違憲的判決。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:05:04.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:05:23.139000+08:00","text":"這個部分希望行政院能夠儘速將刑法第八十條修正案提到立法院來，因為我們今天只是第一次開始進行詢答，等到之後進行審查的時候，本席希望已經能夠看到法務部的版本，可以嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:05:23.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:05:23.159000+08:00","text":"請問次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:05:26.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:05:28.298000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們會跟行政院報告這件事情。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:05:28.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:05:31.299000+08:00","text":"好，一定要嚴正反映這件事情。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:05:33.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:06:11.458000+08:00","text":"針對這個議題，本席還有一個問題想請教，因為我們知道證據的重要性，但是在性侵案件裡面，尤其是未成年性侵案要求被害人陳述必須要有補強證據，這時候可能會很困難，尤其是我們現在等於追訴權從18歲以後才開始起算的話，事實上如果案件是發生在20年前，常常這種監視器或是生物樣本都已經消失了，所以在這裡是不是有可能可以參考國外的經驗，針對延遲揭露的性侵案件可以調降補強證據的門檻。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:06:14.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:06:28.109000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，補強證據的部分，各地檢署檢察官在偵辦的時候會依照實際的情況來做判斷，就是在這個部分上是不是要有多強的補強，他們在個案中會做審慎的判斷。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:06:29.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:06:50.435000+08:00","text":"本席希望能夠借助參考國外的經驗，另外一個就是可以調降補強證據的門檻，還可以透過專業的司法心理鑑定作為法庭上面有效的補強證據，這部分不曉得刑事廳廳長這裡是不是可以接受類似像這樣的國外作法？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:06:51.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:07:00.088000+08:00","text":"關於證據法則的部分，尤其是關於性侵害被害人所做的陳述不得作為唯一證據確實有補強法則的適用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:07:00.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:07:30.316000+08:00","text":"關於補強法則，同時也是實務在適用上常常會有一些寬嚴不等的認定，關於性侵害的補強法則其實我們很願意參考所有國外的見解，以及大法官關於補強法則所揭示的適用，以及對於被告所造成的影響來做綜合的通盤考量，這部分其實最高法院在補強法則的適用上也有相關的見解，我相信它可以均衡的保障被害人的訴訟權及被告的訴訟權，謝謝委員。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:07:30.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:07:31.917000+08:00","text":"OK，很好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:07:32.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:07:49.808000+08:00","text":"本席希望刑法第八十條如果順利通過的話，相關的配套措施要請法務部還有司法院法院這邊都能夠從被害人的角度出發，給予更多在證據上面有利的判斷。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:07:50.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:08:22.244000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題我想請教一個結構性的問題，就是有關於檢察官的上訴權，其實這個可能也會是接下來立法院所要推動有關於羈押抗告是不是要限定次數，或者是應該就直接由法院自為裁定這樣的修法規定，我想請教次長，你是不是支持限制檢察官的上訴權，包括羈押裁定的抗告，還是只是限制程序違法才能夠上訴？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:08:23.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:08:56.029000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實我們的上訴制度是整套的，實務上也常常會發現不乏有時候一審是判無罪，二審有罪，有時候層級上雖然多，但最終會發現到真實，所以我們在檢察官限制上訴權的部分，可能會產生失去監督法院的裁判功能，這個部分有通盤性的考量，所以上訴權我認為還是有必要。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:08:56.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:09:24.416000+08:00","text":"所以你們到現在還是認為有必要，不過我想這個議題因為也引起社會的關注，檢察官是不是有押人取供的情況，而且同時不斷的針對羈押裁定行使抗告，這個其實相當程度也是對於被羈押人的權益可能會造成一定侵害、影響。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:09:25.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:09:50.733000+08:00","text":"因為已經有不少委員提案，看是之後針對羈押抗告的次數做一定的限制，或者是由上級法院自行決定，這個議題我覺得是接下來我們會持續關注的，而且是重點關注的議題，也希望法務部能夠儘速針對這個議題提出你們的看法，甚至是修正版本，好不好？好。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:09:51.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:09:52.774000+08:00","text":"以上，今天詢問就到這邊，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:09:52.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:09:53.115000+08:00","text":"謝謝翁委員，謝謝次長。謝謝。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-04-13T10:09:53.615000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:09:57.615000+08:00","text":"接下來我們有請沈發惠委員詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}