{"error":false,"id":["168453"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168453,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168453","日期":"2026-04-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-13T10:36:05+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-13T10:46:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:07","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5655ee4938da65e121e8db0266265f72306a382356a5b219291cfc8066c9e4d9e08a2c5bfbd339ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"10:36:05 - 10:46:12","會議時間":"2026-04-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查委員賴瑞隆等20人擬具「貪污治罪條例第十二條條文修正草案」案等6案。\n二、繼續併案審查委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第八十三條條文修正草案」案等29案。\n三、併案審查委員黃捷等19人擬具「中華民國刑法施行法增訂第八條之三條文草案」案等16案。\n四、併案審查委員王育敏等18人擬具「民法第一百九十七條條文修正草案」案等3案。\n【開會事由二至四僅進行詢答】\n【詳見議事日程】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":8.907218750000002,"end":13.26096875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":13.497218750000002,"end":15.31971875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":18.00284375,"end":21.86721875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":22.32284375,"end":67.02471875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":67.12596875,"end":67.93596875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.61096875,"end":104.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":77.70659375000001,"end":77.74034375000001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":93.95721875000001,"end":94.61534375000001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.35221875,"end":108.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.43596875,"end":112.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.13159375000001,"end":125.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":125.29409375,"end":127.96034375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.03659375000001,"end":126.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.26409375,"end":136.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":134.20409375,"end":134.27159375000002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.32596875000002,"end":141.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":140.70096875000002,"end":142.21971875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.86534375000002,"end":151.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":151.46721875,"end":151.48409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":151.85534375,"end":153.34034375000002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.61034375,"end":153.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":153.62721875,"end":183.88409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":153.81284375,"end":154.67346875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":166.80659375000002,"end":167.19471875000002,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":183.88409375,"end":255.28221875000003,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":258.04971875,"end":282.90659375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":283.32846875,"end":328.18221875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":331.67534375,"end":344.44971875000005,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":344.77034375,"end":423.22221875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":423.37409375000004,"end":424.99409375000005,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":425.53409375,"end":425.75346875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":425.75346875,"end":437.95409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":426.17534375,"end":427.12034375,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":435.81096875000003,"end":440.04659375000006,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":438.91596875000005,"end":467.04659375000006,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":466.21971875,"end":468.48096875000005,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":467.48534375,"end":478.63971875000004,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":477.59346875000006,"end":499.27784375000005,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":499.27784375000005,"end":573.3928437500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":542.0390937500001,"end":543.23721875,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":571.92471875,"end":575.8059687500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":575.46846875,"end":577.00409375,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":576.5147187499999,"end":603.3290937500001,"speaker_score":0.955},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馮次長成","start":603.3290937500001,"end":603.8859687500001,"speaker_score":0.964},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"許委員宇甄","start":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我們請法務部馮次長司法院許廷長好 請馮次長跟許廷長次長好 廷長好有關有一個案子要跟您這邊請教就是印尼籍的失聯移工就是以一萬元的代價將銀行的賬戶賣給詐騙集團導致三名台灣民眾受騙損失金額是11.9萬那法院的判決是判處"},{"start":39.037,"end":66.631,"text":"四個月的徒刑並克罰金一萬並要求服刑後驅逐出境但是被告呢早在判決前四個月就已經搭機離境導致判決書完全無法執行形同廢紙那請問許廷長這樣的一個狀況我們的判決還有什麼意義嗎就好像對著空氣判決因為他早在這個判刑前四個月就已經離境了那請問這是不是現行的普遍的現象呢請問許廷長"},{"start":68.736,"end":87.079,"text":"包委員這個部分應該是個案上有一些問題但不表示整體制度都有失靈的現象這個部分我來報告關於這一件案子其實當初這個被告他是經過通緝盜案後來他就是被收容"},{"start":87.6,"end":115.454,"text":"那移民署他台北收容所他是在113年6月12日他就發函給基隆地檢署而且告知他是依照移民法這個如果移民法來告知這個預定在6月25號執行遣返但是基隆地檢署他的6月25日起訴已審到基隆地院的時候他並沒有去註記或是給法院這個訊息那法院他收到這個起訴書那在113年7月1日收案那在7月4號改行檢疫判決處刑程序"},{"start":115.894,"end":127.594,"text":"那這段期間他都沒有在獲檢察署轉資那移民署他是認為說我已經依照法律規定告知司法機關而且請這個基隆地檢署在這個部分做適當的那所以這個是算基隆地檢署的措施嗎"},{"start":128.328,"end":150.796,"text":"如果當初基隆地檢署他在起訴的時候有所註記或許可以比較可以避免這個那當然不能說全部都是地檢署的疏失因為這個他在收容中那收容也可能被遣返所以那請問一下那次長最可靠的方式就是法官如果他也能夠限制出行出海那這個部分其實他就有一個司法的控制控制他能夠到庭來執行"},{"start":152.092,"end":167.465,"text":"那請問一下市長這個狀況我想就是委員講的這個部分我們法部真的是高度重視因為事實上我們的司法就是說在最終就是說要能夠像委員講的判下去要達到它的一個司法的效果"},{"start":167.825,"end":183.081,"text":"否則的話如果說是沒有辦法執行的話那這樣當然就會造成說民眾對於司法上面的一個信任度就會不足那這個部分上金融遞減的一個就有沒有剛剛的這個狀況或做法還有沒有辦法更進一步的部分我們回去會請金融遞減署這邊研究"},{"start":183.922,"end":205.534,"text":"因為這個部分我們不希望說事實上警方很辛苦的抓人然後檢察官可能起訴法官審理都耗費了這麼多的一個行政的一個時間跟資源說到最後卻抓不到人因為人早就遣返了其實這我覺得是在我們通報的上面事實上是有很我覺得有失靈的狀況那這個部分的話可能要請我們法務部跟司法局這邊"},{"start":206.494,"end":212.816,"text":"大家都要通靈合作 要怎麼樣才能夠杜絕這樣的狀況 否則的話這樣詐騙的這個案件這個頻傳喔 那只要大家就是想說詐騙集團就是我就找這樣的這個失聯義工來去那個帳戶來去做我們詐騙集團的這個這個掩護的話 那事實上等於抓到也沒事啊 因為他就遣返啊所以這個部分可能要麻煩一下 那尤其是喔"},{"start":230.743,"end":255.081,"text":"現在的入出國籍移民法第36條規定遣返前10日的通報屬於刑事的通知所以目前在司法案件爆量之下檢方跟法院根本沒有辦法在10天內看到通報而且在極短的時間內完成起訴或判決所以這樣的讓移工在台灣犯案非常的容易那所以針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣子的一個我們可以解決的方式"},{"start":258.086,"end":282.515,"text":"跟委員報告 其實利用移工還有一些公司的人頭賬戶這些來做詐騙的部分事實上我們現在都有注意到這個現象那針對這個部分上我們也會針對制度面以及我們的宣導面還有我們查緝面的部分來做落實那希望是說能夠杜絕掉就這樣子利用一些弱勢利用一些移工來做這樣的詐欺犯罪的一個行為"},{"start":283.459,"end":302.706,"text":"所以剛剛講到這個移工的部分剛好最近呢就是勞動部說要開放印度的這個移工來台那當然引起非常大的一個這個大概各界的一個質疑啦因為尤其在一個公共政策的網路參與平台才短短的幾天其實就有三萬多人表達反對的意見"},{"start":303.666,"end":328.066,"text":"那當然針對這樣子的移工的犯案之後尤其是這樣的一個案子移工犯案之後結果也就是這樣子就出盡了完全沒有受到任何的裁決那民眾會有擔心這樣子的一個問題那所以在現在的這個司法的一個狀況之下如果這個漏洞沒有把它補好的話事實上再開放移工來台灣會不會讓大家覺得非常的擔心台灣會不會變成這樣子的一個犯罪天堂"},{"start":331.741,"end":343.307,"text":"我想我們會就我們的部分就是說做好我們該做的那個部分就是說針對於說犯罪後是不是他們會有逃亡的這一個部分我們會跟司法院這邊做好一個這個聯繫"},{"start":345.164,"end":366.609,"text":"當然我想其實現在人民對司法的不滿不是因為這個個案而已而是因為標準明顯的失衡像現在大家非常反彈就是法務部對於我們的清潔隊員電鍋案表示因為貪污製作條例的法定行眾不屬於刑事訴訟法可以違罪不舉的空間所以呢我們的這個基層清潔隊員僅未轉送一個殘值32.56元的舊電鍋給一個實荒的婦人"},{"start":372.95,"end":392.184,"text":"但是還是遭到起訴判有罪那反觀我們的監察委員啊前監察院秘書長私用公務車接送寵物美容然後送家人接送機這些呢檢方最後卻以自付郵費順路使用等理由牽結認定無不法意圖這會讓人家看到的不是法律一致而是對基層從嚴對高官"},{"start":394.705,"end":422.719,"text":"從寬喔所以次長請教一下檢察官現在用自付油錢來幫監委護航這叫沒有損害國庫但是呢請問公務車司機的薪水加班費是誰付的是監委自己付的還是全民納稅人付的車子的保養費車子的折舊費不用花公務預算來支付嗎所以這難道不是侵佔公務資源為什麼到了監委手上就只要付了油錢就變成了私人的這個租賃車可以隨意接送寵物美容"},{"start":423.579,"end":447.794,"text":"送家人接送機呢?其實法務部當然我們對具體的各辦原則上我們是我們不會去做干預不介入也不會指導我們會尊重甲官的行使職權但是這個案子已經造成對社會的一個非常這個案件當然不會是指以說是不是支付油錢來做牽結啦他是依照刑法上面來講就是說針對考綜合的考量"},{"start":448.354,"end":465.789,"text":"是不是用車時間、頻率、實際支出等這個事件來去看說有沒有刑事上的不法那我要跟委員報告就是說刑事我們任何的一個事件裡面它可能會有刑事不法它也可能會有行政不法又或者是說這樣的觀感不好的問題它是有一個層次性的部分"},{"start":466.569,"end":492.961,"text":"那這件事是屬於什麼?針對於我們的部分我們檢察官是在評斷說我們這個案件到底中有沒有在刑事不法上來做一個判斷那請問一下市長就是說這兩案啦在人民的這個眼中其實就是明顯的這個輕重失衡一邊是32元的舊電鍋而且是要住石荒老的這個婦人一個是就是濫用公務車這樣子卻以牽結收藏那請問這兩案"},{"start":495.842,"end":520.719,"text":"法務部全部承認其實就是有明顯的這個輕重權衡其實因為每個案件它的狀況真的是不同我們就是委員提到的這個電鍋32元的這一個案子其實當時在台北市裡面他們的一個制度上就是說他們有一個就是洗物網就是你東西如果進去的話它事實上它是整個公用上那我們的這個清潔隊員他也知道這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":521.659,"end":541.318,"text":"所以事實上依照貪污罪條例的一個規定現在我們的法院也是判定是有罪的只是我們社會上會覺得說那侵佔這麼一個產值只有32塊這樣只要用那麼重的條文來去判斷它是不是合適我們也同意說在這個秦清法重的這個部分上要去做調整"},{"start":542.099,"end":562.152,"text":"但是不是代表說今天說這樣的一個犯罪這樣的一個行為它還是屬於犯罪嘛那所以這樣的一個行為我們在法令還沒有修之前我們還是要依法來判斷只是說跟委員報告您剛剛提到的那個很重要的部分說我們怎麼調整的話我們會針對說我們現在大概社會大界的委員也在講說這個"},{"start":563.112,"end":573.248,"text":"五萬塊以下那我們有就是說增加了這個免除期刑的一個規定就是說萬一真的法院認定在具體個案上看到說真的有那麼可憐所以法務部也是贊成這樣子一個說法的一個方向我們會我們會朝這個方向對我想要不然的話大家"},{"start":578.416,"end":604.107,"text":"都覺得每次都說尊重個案可是事實上民眾的反應是非常非常的沒辦法接受我覺得這是一個最基本的一個是非判斷的原則那也希望說針對這個部分我們要盡速的來修法不要再讓這樣子的一個讓大家覺得是非就看到基層呢就這個法就很重那看到高官呢就法輕希望不要再有這樣的現象發生不會這樣好 謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:14.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:15.683000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請法務部馮次長、司法院許廳長。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:15.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:16.523000+08:00","text":"請馮次長跟許廳長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:16.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:16.864000+08:00","text":"次長、廳長好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:16.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:58.004000+08:00","text":"有一個案子要跟您請教，印尼籍的失聯移工以1萬元的代價將銀行帳戶賣給詐騙集團，導致三名臺灣民眾受騙，損失金額11.9萬，法院的判決是判處四個月的徒刑併科罰金1萬，並要求服刑後驅逐出境，但是被告早在判決前四個月就已經搭機離境，導致判決書完全無法執行，形同廢紙。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:58.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:03.827000+08:00","text":"請問許廳長，這樣的狀況，我們的判決還有什麼意義嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:03.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:11.471000+08:00","text":"就好像對著空氣判決，因為他早在判刑前四個月就已經離境了，請問這是不是現行普遍的現象呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:11.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:11.631000+08:00","text":"請問許廳長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:13.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:20.825000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這部分應該是個案上有一些問題，但不表示整體制度都有失靈的現象。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:22.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:10.190000+08:00","text":"關於這一件案子，其實當初被告是經過通緝到案，後來被收容，移民署臺北收容所在113年6月12日就發函給基隆地檢署，依照移民法告知預定在6月25號執行遣返，但是基隆地檢署在6月25日起訴移審到基隆地院的時候並沒有去註記或是給法院這個訊息，法院收到起訴書，在113年7月1日收案，7月4號改行簡易判決處刑程序，這段期間都沒有再獲檢察署轉知，移民署是認為我已經依照法律規定告知司法機關，而且請基隆地檢署在這部分做適當處理。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:10.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:12.594000+08:00","text":"所以這是算基隆地檢署的疏失嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:13.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:25.132000+08:00","text":"如果當初基隆地檢署在起訴的時候有所註記或許可以避免，但當然不能說全部都是地檢署的疏失，因為他在收容中，收容也可能會被遣返。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:26.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:26.993000+08:00","text":"請問一下次長……","quality":1},{"speaker":"許廳長辰舟","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:26.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:35.776000+08:00","text":"最可靠的方式就是法官如果也能夠讓他限制出境、出海，這部分就有司法的控制讓他能夠到庭來執行。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:37.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:39.514000+08:00","text":"請問一下次長，這個狀況……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:40.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:08.061000+08:00","text":"委員講的這部分，我們法務部真的高度重視，因為我們的司法在最終要能夠像委員講的，判下去要達到司法的效果，否則的話，如果沒有辦法執行的話，當然就會造成民眾對於司法上的信任度就會不足，這部分，基隆地檢針對剛剛所說的狀況或做法，還有沒有辦法更進一步的部分，我們回去會請基隆地檢署研究。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:08.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:37.576000+08:00","text":"因為我們不希望警方很辛苦地抓人，檢察官可能起訴了，法官審理都耗費了這麼多的行政時間跟資源，結果到最後卻抓不到人，因為人早就遣返了，其實我覺得在通報的上面，我覺得有失靈的狀況，這部分可能要請法務部跟司法院大家要通力合作，要怎麼樣才能夠杜絕這樣的狀況，否則的話，詐騙的案件頻傳，詐騙集團就會想說用失聯移工的帳戶來做詐騙集團的掩護的話，事實上抓到也沒事，因為他就被遣返了，所以這部分可能要麻煩一下。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:56.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:15.437000+08:00","text":"入出國及移民法第三十六條規定，遣返前十日之通報屬於刑事通知，在目前司法案件爆量的情況下，檢方及法院根本沒有辦法在十天內看到通報，遑論在極短時間內完成起訴或判決，以致移工在臺灣犯案非常容易。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:17.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:20.061000+08:00","text":"對此，有沒有解決方式？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:23.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:29.888000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們有注意到利用移工及一些公司的人頭帳戶來做詐騙的現象。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:31.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:47.515000+08:00","text":"對此，我們會就制度面、宣導面及查緝面來落實，希望能杜絕利用弱勢或移工來從事詐欺的犯罪行為。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:49.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:07.706000+08:00","text":"講到移工，最近勞動部說要開放印度移工來臺，引起各界質疑，為此，公共政策網路參與平臺在短短幾天內，已經有三萬多人表達反對意見。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:09.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:19.375000+08:00","text":"針對移工犯案，尤其是這種移工犯案之後就出境的案子，完全沒有受到任何裁決，民眾當然會擔心這樣的問題發生。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:19.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:33.046000+08:00","text":"在現行的司法狀況下，如果漏洞沒有補好的話，那麼再開放移工來臺就會讓大家非常擔心臺灣會不會變成犯罪天堂？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:36.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:48.307000+08:00","text":"我們會做好我們該做的，也就是針對移工犯罪後是不是會逃亡這部分跟司法院做好聯繫。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:50.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:56.145000+08:00","text":"其實人民對司法的不滿並非因為個案，而是標準明顯失衡！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:57.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:42:19.711000+08:00","text":"日前讓大家非常反彈的一個案例是，法務部就清潔隊員電鍋一案表示：因為貪污治罪條例的法定刑不屬於刑事訴訟法可微罪不舉的空間，以致基層清潔隊員僅因轉送殘值32.56元的舊電鍋給拾荒婦人，卻仍遭起訴並判有罪！","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:42:20.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:42:34.802000+08:00","text":"反觀前監察院秘書長私用公務車接送寵物美容，送家人接送機，檢方最後卻以自付油費、順路使用等理由簽結，認定無不法意圖！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:42:34.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:42:39.705000+08:00","text":"這讓人家看到的不是法律一致，而是對基層從嚴、對高官從寬。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:42:40.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:42:51.031000+08:00","text":"請教次長，檢察官用自付油錢來幫監委護航，這叫沒有損害國庫，但是公務車司機的薪水、加班費是誰付的？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:42:51.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:42:54.012000+08:00","text":"是監委自己付的，還是全體納稅人付的？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:42:54.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:42:58.534000+08:00","text":"車子的保養費、車子的折舊費不用花公務預算來支付嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:42:58.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:00.335000+08:00","text":"這難道不是侵占公務資源？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:01.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:09.700000+08:00","text":"為什麼到了監委手上，只要付了油錢，就變成私人租賃車，可以隨意接送寵物美容、送家人接送機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:09.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:12.481000+08:00","text":"請次長回答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:12.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:21.007000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，法務部對具體個案原則上不干預、不介入也不會指導，尊重檢察官行使職權。但是……","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:21.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:23.588000+08:00","text":"這個案子已經造成社會輿論……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:24.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:39.339000+08:00","text":"對該案件的質疑，並非以是否支付油錢來做簽結，而是依照刑法所做之綜合考量，即用車時間、頻率、實際支出等事件來看有無刑事上之不法。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:39.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:50.448000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員報告的是，任何事件可能會有刑事不法，也可能會有行政不法，又或者觀感不好的問題，這是有層次性的，所以……","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:51.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:43:53.930000+08:00","text":"這件屬於什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:43:54.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:44:02.654000+08:00","text":"就我們的部分來說，檢察官是在就該案有沒有刑事不法來做判斷，不會涉及到……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:44:05.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:44:09.757000+08:00","text":"這兩案在人民眼中，其實就是明顯的輕重失衡！","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:44:10.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:44:17.260000+08:00","text":"一邊是殘值32元的舊電鍋，而且是要幫助拾荒老婦人；一邊就是濫用公務車，卻這樣以簽結收場！","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:44:17.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:44:23.984000+08:00","text":"請問法務部承不承認這兩案其實就是明顯的輕重失衡？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:44:24.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:44:41.876000+08:00","text":"因為每個案件的狀況真的都不同，誠如委員所提，32元舊電鍋一案，在當時臺北市的制度上……也就是一旦東西進入惜物網，事實上就是屬於公用。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:44:43.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:01.574000+08:00","text":"而該名清潔隊員也知道這樣的狀況，依照貪污治罪條例規定，法院亦判定有罪，只是社會上覺得侵占殘值只有32塊的東西，卻要用這麼重的條文來判斷是不是合適？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:01.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:06.298000+08:00","text":"我們同意就情輕法重這部分來說要做調整……","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:06.298000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:07.298000+08:00","text":"要如何調整？","quality":0},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:07.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:13.283000+08:00","text":"但這不代表這樣的犯罪行為……其實還是屬於犯罪！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:14.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:19.407000+08:00","text":"因此，這樣的行為在法令尚未修正之前，我們還是要依法判斷。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:19.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:23.269000+08:00","text":"只是要跟委員報告的是，您剛剛提到的一個很重要的部分是：怎麼調整？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:23.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:32.399000+08:00","text":"我們會針對現在社會各界及委員也在講的，針對5萬塊以下增加了免除其刑之規定。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:33.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:37.026000+08:00","text":"即萬一法院在具體個案上看到真的有那麼可憐……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:37.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:37.687000+08:00","text":"所以法務部也是贊成這樣修法的方向？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:37.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:37.968000+08:00","text":"我們會朝這個方向。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:38.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:45:49.619000+08:00","text":"要不然你們每次都說尊重個案，但事實上民眾的反應是非常非常沒辦法接受的！","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-04-13T10:45:49.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:46:07.986000+08:00","text":"我覺得這是最基本的是非判斷原則，也希望能針對這部分儘速修法，不要再讓這樣子……讓大家覺得看到基層就法重，看到高官就法輕，希望不要再有這樣的現象發生。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"馮次長成","start":"2026-04-13T10:46:08.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:46:09.087000+08:00","text":"不會這樣的。謝謝。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:46:09.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:46:09.107000+08:00","text":"謝謝許委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:46:09.607000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:46:13.035571+08:00","text":"接下來有請羅智強委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}