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自行車他們現在第一個接不到訂單第一個接到訂單也不敢接單"},{"start":2106.638,"end":2135.135,"text":"一片哀嚎最重要原因是因為拖延太久了一方面比黑箱更黑箱的狀況第二個我們的政策一直搖擺不定像歐盟為什麼急著去接受15%他們清楚地講他們不希望一直在動盪的狀況要讓它早一點穩定下來那依照台灣民眾黨跟國民黨的智庫一起做的這個整個平台的這個評估業者最擔心的也是政策的不確定性"},{"start":2136.397,"end":2157.817,"text":"不確定性 雖然這段時間不是有黑箱的問題對很多的業者跟地方政府來講 他們碰到最大的問題就是不確定性就是歐盟為什麼急著要把它定下來因為我們要讓整個他們全部的成員跟產業都是知道的而且讓不確定性不要再拖延下去可是我們現在發現 因為政府到目前為止還一直在講說要繼續談判 而且不對外公開"},{"start":2162.071,"end":2183.22,"text":"神秘兮兮的一直在蓋牌的狀況下這對整個產業的發展對政府的因應對全民的安定非常的不利特別現在不是只有剛講的20%的關稅比競爭對手還要高我們還有費力台幣升值的問題現在後續各個國家都有附帶的條件可是條件目前還是空白的"},{"start":2184.628,"end":2209.833,"text":"日本一開始要4000億的這個投資川普大筆一揮變成5500億本來兩邊分享利潤各一半現在變成是美國是90%另外賴總統到現在講說有所謂保密協定這幾天引起非常多的討論包括以前擔任過民進黨行政院副院長的蘇晉吉都出來講說請讓我們幫忙好不好"},{"start":2210.573,"end":2225.257,"text":"讓各界了解狀況讓各界的聲音跟專家學者還有立法院的全民的力量進去讓我們共同來幫忙讓我們共同來解決問題好不好剛剛講的一方面到底要投資多少錢我們到底要採購多少錢除了我們目前知道的像阿拉斯加採購這個天然氣還要去做基礎這個建設之外"},{"start":2233.959,"end":2247.331,"text":"有太多的採購目前都是完全被蒙在鼓裡的之前傳出來說國防的採購竟然要高達9000億可是政府到現在都不印證天然採購到底要做哪些基礎建設多少錢也不跟我們講"},{"start":2249.223,"end":2260.772,"text":"目前連勞工都已經上街頭抗議了 農民也上街頭了他們要求說你早一點讓我們真相不能夠一再犧牲我們可是目前都沒有真相所以台灣民眾黨明確的要求我們在盡快的時間邀請"},{"start":2264.235,"end":2285.372,"text":"行政院院長卓榮泰到立法院來一方面把整個談判的過程的內容詳細跟國人共同來交代我們讓全民都一方面知道真相更重要的提出最妥善的因應措施讓全民讓立法院共同來參與 謝謝好 謝謝提案黨團代表的說明那接下來不曉得哪一位黨團要先說好 羅委員來請"},{"start":2290.359,"end":2314.374,"text":"我必須沉重的說真的是國難當頭國難當頭所以非常贊同民眾黨提出來這個請我們卓榮泰立刻來專案報告跟國人來說清楚講明白我在政府單位服務過我為什麼說是非常嚴重國難當頭我告訴各位"},{"start":2315.695,"end":2340.595,"text":"現在民進黨宣稱這叫暫時性關稅20%高過日本跟韓國可是你知道國際的談判講的是你來我往我們已經做了四大讓步包括台積電投資赴美設廠包括賴總統也承諾要大幅提高國防預算"},{"start":2341.687,"end":2358.615,"text":"包括要到阿拉斯加來去投資採購長期的天然氣包括我們台幣大幅升值我們已經做了四大讓步結果得到的是暫時性關稅民進黨所謂的暫時性關稅20%比日本韓國甚至比泰國都高"},{"start":2367.541,"end":2380.79,"text":"現在我們的民進黨政府一直告訴大家安心安心這只是暫時性你做了四大讓步還拿到20%的暫時性關稅我不知道如果你要拿到跟日本跟韓國一樣的15%我們的政府還要再做多少的讓步我們的產業我們的農民我們的各行各業現在真的是叫苦連天啊"},{"start":2393.024,"end":2411.093,"text":"所以要拜託我們的卓榮泰院長還有我們的民進黨政府真的把皮繃緊一點把心好好的收回來過去這段時間真的我必須說我們的整個執政團隊我沒有看到把心思放在國政上面心都不知道飛到哪裡去了像這樣一個分心的政府你如何應應國內的天災跟國際的關稅重大的風暴"},{"start":2421.701,"end":2422.775,"text":"真的非常沉重啊"},{"start":2424.042,"end":2450.333,"text":"所以請我們的官員們心思收回來真的心思馬上收回來全心全力的投入今天這一場國際關稅風暴的備戰所以我支持我們民眾黨提出來請卓榮泰在最短的時間內向國人清楚的報告為什麼做四大讓步得到的暫時性關稅仍然高達20%勝於日本跟韓國"},{"start":2453.914,"end":2480.41,"text":"那請問還要再做十大讓步才能夠拿到日本韓國的百分之十五嗎請您說清楚講明白謝謝好那個謝謝羅志強委員再請民進黨黨團代表發言以前我先補充介紹道黨的委員徐曉信委員以及鄭天才委員接下來是請民主進步黨黨團的代表是哪一位要發言吳思堯委員"},{"start":2481.186,"end":2502.018,"text":"好謝謝主席謝謝各黨的代表首先本黨先講結論要求行政部門到立法院針對關稅的談判這些過程或是後續的執行政策的配套來做報告黨團當然是民進黨當然是支持那事實上依據我們的條約締結法任何的在談判final"},{"start":2506.954,"end":2522.733,"text":"所有要締結跟國際的協議必然經過國會所有的內容也都要經過國會的討論批准核可所以說這個東西當然他在談判的出爐之後的全公開"},{"start":2523.793,"end":2543.044,"text":"這個我們都有過去的經驗國會也都相當的熟人所以要來報告該來報告那我想行政部門也會做好準備該公開的所有的內容就循過去國會已經進行的各項的締約的經驗跟程序來進行這個都沒有問題"},{"start":2544.105,"end":2553.251,"text":"那我要進一步的來闡述一下我想全社會都在關心產業關心國人關心朝野關心如同這個志強委員說的他把它定義為說這是國難那我認為就是國家現在要克服的在一起努力的這個過程當中我們希望朝野大家都團結在共同支持我們還在努力當中的談判團隊"},{"start":2570.843,"end":2583.95,"text":"的这个立场我希望朝野大家是坚定的齐心的团结的那在这个部分为什么我倒不认为除非除非在野党的委员认为现在20%就够了就要接受了"},{"start":2587.569,"end":2615.698,"text":"否則我們都應當支持台灣跟美方之間還能夠繼續談還有方案繼續談的這個當下我們都該支持我們的行政部門談判團隊為國家為產業去爭取更好的一個稅率除非在黨的委員認為28可以接受否則我們就要支持在可談判的方向之下絕對要為我們爭取更好的一個成果那台灣的狀況"},{"start":2618.726,"end":2637.03,"text":"確實因為我們的出口七成是ICT產業那我們對美是六大逆差的大國那我們九成以上也是ICT相關產業在逆差的部分所以說台灣的談判跟其他國家特別不同的是我們跟半導體產業232條款是一起談一起面對的所以每一個國家的談判狀況產業的生態"},{"start":2643.792,"end":2649.057,"text":"的這個體質是不同的我們不太能夠一概而論別人怎麼樣台灣為什麼不是這樣反而我們認為我們的跟232條款一起來談判的過程它相對更複雜但我們也更有可以談"},{"start":2658.866,"end":2670.212,"text":"的契機跟籌碼在手上我希望在議黨的委員不要把它定位成繼續談就是讓步我們應當把它聚焦為繼續能夠談判我們支持國家繼續來爭取最後講到這個公開的問題今天的整個提案裡頭民進黨團我們剛剛已經講結論我們支持該報告就報告"},{"start":2681.218,"end":2684.982,"text":"後續所有的依現在的條約締結法就是需要公開但是呢對於提案內容裡頭所闡述的部分提到獨裁政府黑箱談判這種字眼我想這一次的台美不是台美美國跟各國"},{"start":2698.615,"end":2725.467,"text":"80多個國家的談判都是一樣的方式都是一樣的進程都是一樣的談判的這個國際的常規不要把自己的政府我們適用於國際的談判的原則規範把台灣自己的政府說成是獨裁跟黑箱如果這樣成立的話那麼是在指控另外100多個國家也都是獨裁政府嗎"},{"start":2726.367,"end":2744.29,"text":"是在指控美國這些談判跟每一個國家都是黑箱作業嗎這個是比照跟國際談判的ABC經驗法則慣例常規所以我們希望大家不用擔心後續所有該公開的"},{"start":2746.172,"end":2773.61,"text":"國會絕對是把關的最後一關該公開的協議所有的項目包括未來談定之後終局談判定案之後對於過程的很多討論國會必然可以監督所以請不要用這樣的字眼我認為我們的團隊還在前線努力大家真的是給團隊加油這是為自己的國家加油再一次說我們支持行政團隊爭取更好"},{"start":2775.511,"end":2799.159,"text":"的稅率那給他們必要的空間因為談判就是兩造雙方就是台灣以及美國之間可操之在我的部分我們全面要發揮最好的一個條件的進行談判不可操之在我的部分我想國會也應當都能夠來站在支持團談判團隊的立場上去克服這些困難謝謝"},{"start":2805.039,"end":2818.246,"text":"謝謝三位黨團的代表第一輪的發言開啟第二輪的發言以前我們先請因為連執政黨的黨團都表示說他們"},{"start":2819.506,"end":2848.02,"text":"所有的協議本來都是要經過國會然後條約締結法的規定要遵守等等至於說各個黨團在背景的資訊上面所謂的不同陳述也就是說目前台灣經過的狀況是不是跟其他各國一樣為什麼在台灣說有保密協定了以後泰國馬上就公布了他們的19%是怎麼談出來的讓了哪10個項目清楚的做了說明"},{"start":2849.241,"end":2876.332,"text":"那日本的首相也在國會進行了報告那韓國跟我們當初在2013年服貿仿效的條約締結法他們在國會裡面所進行的程序跟目前在台灣國會所進行的程序是不是真的都一樣我相信台灣是一個資訊非常公開的社會所有的人現在都可以透過公開的查詢得到客觀的資訊我也沒有必要"},{"start":2877.012,"end":2888.877,"text":"在這邊再多說什麼但現在比較重要的是行政院的立場那等一下是不是先請行政院的代表可以上來就"},{"start":2891.348,"end":2915.534,"text":"今天所提出來的議案就說明補充一下背景的資訊因為我現在手上所拿的是美國川普總統在2025年7月31號所簽署的行政命令這份行政命令講得非常的清楚就是從他簽署行政命令的七天以後"},{"start":2916.534,"end":2940.309,"text":"那他在這個行政命令上面所宣布的關稅將會正式的生效那以美國的時間來講就是美東時間8月7日凌晨零點開始那以台灣的時間來講會是8月7日中午的12點如果我等一下有理解錯誤的話那也歡迎我們行政團隊的進一步來加以指教"},{"start":2941.129,"end":2968.205,"text":"那為什麼要提這個背景的資訊這個背景的資訊涉及到說如果各個黨團都贊成如果各個黨團都贊成要盡速的請行政院長來進行報告的話那接下來就會牽涉到兩個部分一個部分是時間的問題因為8月7號中午12點是台北大概禮拜四的時候那所以是不是這個禮拜五這個禮拜五"},{"start":2970.406,"end":2992.337,"text":"行政院可以來進行專案報告這個禮拜五行政院來進行專案報告可能等一下預備請黨團的代表們第二輪發言的時候再做表示順便聽一下行政院的意見因為這麼重大的事情如果只進行一天的報告可能實際上面"},{"start":2993.97,"end":3001.251,"text":"關心的委員非常的多是不是可以容納所有關心的委員還是說這個禮拜五下個禮拜二"},{"start":3002.546,"end":3023.773,"text":"我們五二一次會嘛禮拜五跟禮拜二讓行政院長報告完了以後從這個禮拜五到下個禮拜二可以排兩天這個各個黨團等一下都可以表示意見我們也都尊重不過請行政團隊先說明的事情是說第一個因為賴清德總統不斷的說這是一個暫時性的所以8月7號"},{"start":3031.994,"end":3054.712,"text":"在行政命令他有簽署會生效的日期以前那這20%是不是會停下來可能我們到8月8號你們做報告的時候事態會很明朗因為全體國人也都很關心總統所謂的暫時性關稅到底是暫時多久的一段期間那第二個部分總統也說明過說"},{"start":3057.794,"end":3083.354,"text":"我們跟美方已經簽了保密的協定等一下也順便說明一下這個保密的協定什麼時候簽的簽的主體是誰保密的範圍是什麼那這個協定為什麼沒有按照條約締結法相關的規定送到立法院裡面來即使你認為性質上面是屬於行政協定的話那也應該要送到立法院來被查"},{"start":3084.455,"end":3096.265,"text":"這個是第三個部分那現在行政院這邊請問是請哪一位來當作代表?是副秘書長嗎?還是副總談判代表?是請副總談判代表是不是?好,我們來請副總談判代表請上被選談"},{"start":3118.97,"end":3141.679,"text":"主席以及在場各位好我簡單補充一下關於剛剛我們主席特別提示要說明的背景資料我想8月1號這個白宮美東時間7月31號那發布了行政命令那按照這個行政命令呢他更新在"},{"start":3143.047,"end":3158.358,"text":"這個相關的稅率在8月7號凌晨12點01分起會開始生效所以呢在這個行政命令上面所記載的就是所有這個7月31號的新的"},{"start":3160.479,"end":3180.019,"text":"行政命令的稅率会在8月7号凌晨12点01分开始试用这个新的税率那台湾在这个行政命令上面的税率标示的是20%的税率那不过呢它的行政命令上面有提到"},{"start":3181.175,"end":3206.125,"text":"有一些國家跟美國可能接近要完成協議的階段所以當跟美國完成協議的情況之下這個稅率會再進行調整所以就台灣來說我們已經向美方表示我們持續想要跟美方就對等關稅以及其他的232有關的議題進行討論"},{"start":3209.406,"end":3228.611,"text":"美國也回覆他有意願跟台灣繼續進行這樣的一個討論所以我們會持續的就這個議題就我們的稅率對等關稅的稅率跟美國持續討論然後希望要爭取對台灣更合理更好的這個對等稅率第二個呢也補充說明一下我們"},{"start":3237.048,"end":3259.024,"text":"所了解的是,美國跟各國在對等關稅的談判,依美國的要求,與各國談判在達成協定共識前,都必須簽有保密協議,以避免不必要的紛擾。所以這個協議的目的是在保護跟處理相關資訊以及文件的交換。"},{"start":3260.578,"end":3271.768,"text":"那也是要求對手國不能將談判文件分享給其他沒有經過授權的人士也不涉及談判實質議題"},{"start":3274.422,"end":3301.213,"text":"過去台灣跟美國進行談判也都是依照這個慣例在進行即使其他國家的談判台灣過去曾經談過新加坡、紐西蘭的台新、台紐FTA我們即便沒有簽保密協議的情況之下台灣也是在這個談判過程當中被對手國要求必須要嚴守保密的承諾"},{"start":3302.659,"end":3325.117,"text":"那我們回過頭來台美之間的這個保密協議是由我國的駐美代表處以及AIT所簽署這一個要求呢基本上是這個保密協定要求依照國際慣例要求談判的過程"},{"start":3327.031,"end":3346.023,"text":"基本上希望要依據我們的國際慣例來執行這些保密的要求那這一個保密協定呢我們依據條約締結法第十二條處理因為涉及到有外交的顧慮所以沒有送立法院查照"},{"start":3347.625,"end":3368.602,"text":"那至於這個保密的範圍他要求所有談判過程當中相關的提案等資訊只能提供雙方指派的代表議題主管機關官員等人不得將資訊分享給未經授權的人那這一次"},{"start":3369.409,"end":3393.549,"text":"對等關稅的談判各國都是依照國際慣例來進行談判也都沒有公佈他們的保密協定所以目前台美談判我們仍然在進行當中所以未來如果談判完成之後我們的談判結果一定會依據條約締結法相關規定送立法院審議以上說明"},{"start":3396.028,"end":3418.038,"text":"對不起喔 那個你前面有做一些背景說明非常感謝你的背景說明那你的背景說明各個黨團的代表是不是接受 是不是正確那個我們以後再說但現在比較關鍵的是站在行政院的立場如果是這個禮拜五跟下禮拜二就來立法院說明行政院的立場如何是不是可以一併表明"},{"start":3421.404,"end":3446.966,"text":"陳如我剛剛提到我們的談判仍然在進行當中那目前我們人來依據保密協議跟美國之間在這些談判都在動態的發展所以如果過早去發布實質內容跟談判實質內容有關的議題的話恐怕會對於我們接下來的談判會達成一些不必要的一些困擾"},{"start":3448.676,"end":3471.663,"text":"對不起所以你們認為是因為還在進行所以不方便來立法院做報告是這樣的意思嗎我們會建議如果我們可以談到確定底定的一個結果的話那什麼時候會有確定底定的結果預期就好行政院以你們談判代表團隊因為我們目前跟時間在賽跑嘛剛在回答第一個問題的時候你說"},{"start":3473.308,"end":3479.716,"text":"川普的行政命令說8月7號生效但之前如果願意談那可以趕快談"},{"start":3480.834,"end":3503.62,"text":"那我現在有一點搞不清楚狀況所以如果要阻止8月7號生效的這件事情顯然在8月7號以前要有談的內容出來嘛或者是跟美方協議好台灣不在8月7號生效的範圍當中那否則的話8月7號台北的時間中午12點就會生效了"},{"start":3504.48,"end":3523.14,"text":"那到底有沒有辦法有新的一個談判的結果來阻止或者是變更這個8月7號生效的結果應該這個禮拜四中午我們大家就會知道那第二個事情是說那如果在8月7號中午12點以前沒有一個協議的話那"},{"start":3526.007,"end":3550.428,"text":"我不曉得除非川普總統去變更他行政命令的內容那否則的話這個就會生效那生效大家關心的就是對台灣產業所造成的衝擊跟影響以及行政院的因應那連這個部分行政院也不能談嗎這個是第二個問題還是說目前行政院的立場是說那8月7號生效歸生效"},{"start":3551.516,"end":3572.646,"text":"那但是我們還在談所以未來在一個不確定的期間當中這個期間有可能長有可能短因為我們會隨時繼續談那因為會隨時繼續談所以不斷的處於保密階段那所以呢就一直不能夠來立法院進行報告行政院的立場是這樣嗎?對不起因為你剛剛副總談判代表"},{"start":3573.406,"end":3587.733,"text":"所講的內容我做會議主席在主持的時候我完全聽不懂所以是不是可以請您進一步的闡釋讓各個黨團的代表可以聽得更明確一點那以利我們接下來議事的進行謝謝不好意思我請教你問題請你回答跟針對主席的問題我想就是要請"},{"start":3601.843,"end":3619.374,"text":"院長到立法院做專案報告應該可能有兩個層面一個層面是國內的因應第二個層面是屬於談判的部分那我在這邊也只能就談判的部分來跟您回報那我想就談判的這個進度呢確實我們在"},{"start":3620.78,"end":3635.177,"text":"現在所看到的川普的7月31號的行政命令有提到8月7號開始會是我們現在所取得的20%的關稅開始實施但是在此之前當然都可以持續談"},{"start":3636.218,"end":3653.312,"text":"但是他會不會在8月7號以前再去針對像這樣子繼續談的國家但是如果還是沒有辦法完成他會不會再去做一個新的公佈這個東西確實是我們現在沒有辦法掌握的因為川普總統確實如同像他對墨西哥"},{"start":3653.792,"end":3669,"text":"他就在7月31號以前又將墨西哥跟美國的談判又公布延長了90天所以就是說就這個美國本身自己的節奏談判節奏的一個掌握這個大概都是取決他們的決定"},{"start":3672.482,"end":3688.855,"text":"所以現在行政院的立場還是希望說,縱使8月7號台北的時間12點應該會發生效力那行政院因為還要繼續談,所以還是不希望到立法院來報告,立場是這樣嗎?因為我聽不太懂啦來,請說明"},{"start":3693.462,"end":3713.386,"text":"我想我們就是針對8月7號這個稅率因為他不確定是一個是不是台灣會取得的最終稅率因為我們還持續在談判當中美方也有善意的回應願意持續跟我們談所以呢我們會建議最好可以在談判大致都抵定"},{"start":3713.946,"end":3724.42,"text":"甚至是草簽之後這個雙方的條件都確定下來了共識都確定下來了我們再就談判的結果來跟立院來做報告"},{"start":3726.5,"end":3748.437,"text":"那個是不是符合各個黨團的立場跟期待我們想等一下各個黨團可以表達他們的看法那是不是符合國人的期待我相信台灣社會的公民社會很成熟大家都可以有看法那不過先提供因為立法院的這邊的議事處針對我們議事的潛力有做一些準備我也先跟各個黨團的代表來進行報告"},{"start":3750.859,"end":3771.008,"text":"我國跟紐西蘭簽署台紐經濟合作協定是在102年7月10號雙方簽署前也就是102年的7月8號經濟部、外交部等機關都先到立法院向當時的立法院院長王金平以及各個黨團代表進行報告"},{"start":3772.25,"end":3788.895,"text":"第二個部分102年11月7號我國跟新加坡簽署全屬台新經濟夥伴協定在雙方簽署前經濟部跟外交部也先向本院說明該協定的內容在要以及洽簽的進度"},{"start":3791.997,"end":3809.467,"text":"當時的立法院院長王金平也表示這個已經充分的表現行政部門對立法院所代表民意的尊重也有助於行政與立法部門溝通與協調這個是針對本院的議事處針對議事前例的部分跟大家進行報告"},{"start":3810.808,"end":3833.414,"text":"那我們現在開放各個黨團第二輪意見的發表因為三個黨團雖然都表示那個副總代表您請回座不好意思 謝謝三個黨團雖然對於請行政院來報告都表示一個基本上肯定認同的看法不過我們的行政院似乎說他們還要談"},{"start":3836.074,"end":3858.024,"text":"談完以前不要來報告但是至於剛剛本席所追尋的要談到什麼時候其實也不知道8月7號以前沒有談出來8月7號生肖是不是也不願意來報告我也聽不出來我已經多次給行政院的代表表達意見的機會了但不管怎麼樣"},{"start":3859.404,"end":3886.998,"text":"邀請行政院院長來本院進行報告這個是本院的職權那各個黨團我們還是可以做成我們自己的決定那依照憲法相關的規定行政院這邊有配合辦理的醫護那我們在這個之前也充分的讓行政院的代表表達了他們的立場跟看法那接下來不曉得哪個黨團的代表要再先發言"},{"start":3888.098,"end":3902.623,"text":"因為我們第一輪發言的順序是台灣民眾黨、中國國民黨以及民主進步黨那我們第二輪是不是就先讓中國國民黨的代表先發言那請問是哪一個委員要代表來請徐曉清委員"},{"start":3906.468,"end":3916.913,"text":"謝謝主席我想是這樣子人活一生呢也是暫時的這個要一天兩天還是100歲100年都是一樣是暫時所以大家很疑惑的是說怎麼會有一個關稅叫做暫時性關稅而且呢講到這個暫時性關稅的時候暫時性要講特別大聲就好像是呢你用講話也要用螢光筆把它圈出來一樣這是第一個讓大家覺得非常不解的事情"},{"start":3933.22,"end":3957.492,"text":"但實際上面8月7號就要開始收錢了嘛關稅就要開始收了嘛那所以如果說它是暫時性的那請問要暫時多久這個是大家第一個問題第二個是那如果它只是暫時性的所以它要保密的話但它對產業的衝擊已經開始了所以我要請問的是那所謂的暫時性它到底有沒有要簽署呢"},{"start":3958.172,"end":3974.741,"text":"如果這個暫時性沒有要簽署的話那他又憑什麼已經開始對大家進行實施呢那如果說這個內容是保密協定我們有一組保密協定的內容裡面是談了某一些東西然後我們要做一些取捨所以才談出了20%那抱歉在你簽署之前這一些的保密內容他不得實施啊"},{"start":3982.369,"end":3985.231,"text":"不然我們怎麼知道是什麼內容呢對於所有的產業額外的造成什麼衝擊我們在完全一概不知的情況之下那你憑什麼去實施你憑什麼去實施因為按照條約締結法你簽署12條嘛簽署後30天你要周知到立法院的黨團嘛那到底簽署了沒簽署後那你才開始說做實施那你現在是一個非常空白授權的一個狀況"},{"start":4008.371,"end":4023.199,"text":"就是呢8月7號要開始收開始影響我國的各個產業可是他又是保密的但他的內容又已經要開始實施了那這不是一個循環性的一個閉鎖的黑箱嗎所以我要講的第三點是"},{"start":4024.64,"end":4040.83,"text":"我們可以看到今天最新的美國貿易代表格里爾他在一段3號播出的電視訪談裡面說川普新公佈的關稅稅率基本上已經確定外界不應該期待這些稅率在短期內還在調降"},{"start":4042.791,"end":4062.082,"text":"他說他認為未來幾天不會有所變化現在是8月4號到8月7號也不過就是未來幾天也就是說如果在8月7號之前政府沒有把握能夠談出新的稅率新的內容然後解除所謂的保密能夠跟民眾做說明的話那請問今天這個保密是要保到哪裡去"},{"start":4066.874,"end":4073.496,"text":"印尼泰國南韓日本他們哪一個國家沒有在現在的關稅制度之下已經被談出來之後還繼續要跟美國談的都有啊日本也有持續在談啊那為什麼他們首相可以公開的跟民眾去做說明為什麼泰國能夠公開的去跟民眾說明難道他們就沒有繼續談嗎所以我希望還是必須要公開這些所謂的內容如果真的有要用機密的形式的話那我們也可以接受"},{"start":4096.843,"end":4111.963,"text":"但是絕對不能說到現在8月7號已經要收了但是呢要對產業進行影響了可是我們什麼都沒有做 以上好 謝謝中國國民黨黨團的代表薛曉欣徐若元的發言那請 接下來民主政府黨蔡議員"},{"start":4115.165,"end":4130.75,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位我們與會的立委同伴我想今天這一個台美談判事實上很多的一些時間的訂定以及程序的主導權事實上是在美國"},{"start":4131.79,"end":4155.323,"text":"所以我們台灣我們行政團隊在跟美國談判的時候事實上很多遊戲規則是美國定的包括他要求我們在談判的結論還沒有出來前必須要牽手保密的協定所以目前這個20%那我們因為我們還沒有達到最終的協定那是川普片面的在8月1號說如果還沒有"},{"start":4155.983,"end":4162.747,"text":"達成最終談判結論的那就是台灣就是定在20%這樣的一個數字那當然我們站在保護國內產業的一個立場我們認為20%還不足以讓國內的產業未來是有更有競爭性所以我們希望繼續談那再繼續談的話"},{"start":4175.194,"end":4191.691,"text":"這一個保密協定當然繼續發揮它的繼續有它的一個拘束力除非我們可以跟美國要求說好那我如果你公布20%那我們是不是這個保密協定就暫時不要生效我們要把之前的談判的內容來做一個揭露"},{"start":4192.712,"end":4201.118,"text":"這個可能也是需要美方的同意因為保密協定是雙邊簽署的簽署的保密協定所以我就講如果是以我們的契約締結法當然第六條有說就這個條約草案的前面可以做談判的方針原則或是可能的爭議事項向立法院說明所以我們也很同意說我們來邀請行政院長然後針對"},{"start":4220.831,"end":4245.916,"text":"這個談判的進程、方針、原則以及衝擊來做專案報告民進黨同意但是我們要知道方針、原則跟爭議事項很多會被保密協定扣住所以我們現在叫行政院長來事實上他還是一樣會被保密協定給扣住很多事情他沒有辦法在我們馬上邀請他的時候他就把一些應該保密的事項講出來這個也不符合國際的一個談判所以應該"},{"start":4251.211,"end":4265.757,"text":"適當要求行政院長來說就是說我們跟美國已經談到了有一個初步的雙邊的共識而且我們跟美國說好那我們是不是要就這一個部分我們就已經可以適度的跟國人來揭露"},{"start":4266.943,"end":4276.573,"text":"那美方也同意說好 當然還沒有簽署協定那至於剛剛主席有去講到說 過去的檯面有協定啦一些我們一些國際地約在簽約前必須經過立法院的一個審議而且甚至也有跟當時的王金平院長然後來做一個報告 他整個談判的一個過程對 那是在簽約前"},{"start":4291.332,"end":4295.394,"text":"簽約前所以我覺得這個時序以及這個事實上我們從過去的一些文獻的報導都可以知道他的時序是怎樣時序是怎樣所以目前大概就是說還在談根本還沒有進入協議的一個完成那我們舉了日本日本在協議完成前也是眾說飛雲我看到很多日本的"},{"start":4313.404,"end":4316.325,"text":"專家學者也在批判日本在協商的過程到底他們犧牲了國內哪一些的產業開放了哪一些產業變成零稅率還是稅率降低這件事情很多人也在批判很多日本的學者也有在批判日本的政府但是他們一樣要遵守保密協定"},{"start":4335.19,"end":4345.633,"text":"我認為說除非大家國人認為20%已經夠所以已經到時候談判結束但是我們覺得這樣還不夠那我們事實上也要知道一個國際的一個事實過去韓國是我們的一個競爭對手韓國跟美國在過去是簽了FTA就是自由貿易協定"},{"start":4356.155,"end":4378.58,"text":"所以台灣過去的產業很辛苦我們在面對跟韓國的競爭的時候因為他們有自由貿易協定所以我們都是面對著韓國跟美國他們說2007年簽了自由貿易協定生效後三年內95%的雙邊的工藝品跟消費品的交易十年內要達到零關稅"},{"start":4380.2,"end":4382.423,"text":"所以韓國跟美國過去是零關稅95%是零關稅所以台灣過去我們就是跟韓國我們就是面對這樣的劣勢情況之下台灣的廠商一樣是非常的打拼所以我們現在外國有20%都說要降幾%"},{"start":4397.944,"end":4402.689,"text":"就是縮短了我們跟韓國未來的一個在國際競爭在對美國的一個貿易的時候的差距而且這個自由貿易協定也並不是只有韓國美國所簽的自由貿易國家有在亞太包括澳洲包括新加坡在中美也有很多國家他們有自由貿易協定這個都是台灣"},{"start":4420.77,"end":4435.375,"text":"過去在面對競爭的時候我們的一個硬傷我們沒有跟美國有辦法去簽這個自由貿易協定所以當時我們不管是桃美貿易協定或者是我們在BTA的努力都是一步想要替國人爭取最好的競爭條件"},{"start":4436.815,"end":4447.523,"text":"那現在一樣在這個對等關稅之下到底這個對等關稅跟所謂232條款甚至跟所謂301條款它未來是競合的關係還是疊加的關係這個也都在談判的內容所以我覺得要說的東西很多但是行政團隊怎麼可能他們不會站在保護國內產業然後跟美國爭取最大的利益呢不可能是這樣做的"},{"start":4465.427,"end":4489.752,"text":"所以我們當然希望行政院長來跟我們報告包括我們自己在野黨我們自己民進黨在野黨大家都一樣想要知道到底哪一些談判內容我站在農業縣的立委我也知道到底現在農業面對未來的衝擊是怎樣我也很想知道但是我們知道現在就是正在談判中在談判的時候我們只能信任談判的一個團隊讓他們放心"},{"start":4493.613,"end":4509.439,"text":"國人支持他讓他們去去台灣爭取最大的關稅的優勢回來這個是我們必須授權給他們而且信任他們當他們取得了跟美國的共識之後立法院邀請來請他們做報告請他們說如果有開放的哪些"},{"start":4515.647,"end":4532.505,"text":"那對國內產業的衝擊要怎麼辦我們都覺得我們立法院要趕快再提出因應措施這個我是我們每一個立法委員都應該做的但是在此時此刻既然他們還在談判而且這個談判還沒有完成而且美國有要求我們要做保密協議的情況之下我們應該放手讓他們去談好 謝謝"},{"start":4537.018,"end":4559.789,"text":"好,謝謝民進黨黨團的代表蔡玉瑜、蔡委員剛剛蔡委員也說了一方面依照條例締結法第六條也贊成行政院來報告但另外一方面又擔心我們有簽所謂的保密協議所以行政院院長來報告是不是會去違反所謂的保密協議"},{"start":4561.25,"end":4576.963,"text":"那當然在法律上面 條約締結法的規定跟所謂的保密協定兩者之間的位階適用上面 競合上面處理衝突的時候應該要拿一個為先我想台灣是法治國家不能找到"},{"start":4577.924,"end":4597.057,"text":"答案主席這部分的衝擊那個不好意思現在主席正在發言我現在並沒有請你發言第12條請你把麥克風關掉主席可以看一下第12條有有有他剛剛已經說明了所以我現在要再問一次行政部門的立場是不是就保密協定本身"},{"start":4598.118,"end":4623.372,"text":"到底有哪些事項是保密的對誰保密什麼事項保密這件事情立法院也不能夠知道因為這個保密協定本身也是保密的那個行政部門的代表等一下再回覆各個黨團的問題的時候因為我一方面在整理各個黨團的立場另外一方面我再聚焦從各個黨團不同的立場當中核心的爭點等一下請行政部門一併來加以說明"},{"start":4624.392,"end":4631.218,"text":"那第二輪我們還有第三個黨團的代表還沒有講台灣民眾黨黨團是請陳昭志委員來請陳昭志委員剛剛大家就是尤其執政的立委好像就一副美國片面的公佈這個結果但是這個說法並不能證實其實我們我方的代表是不知情的那這個遠在公佈之前像鄰近國家尤其是日本早就找朝野來協商啊"},{"start":4653.456,"end":4655.638,"text":"這個既然是國家全體的事情啊為什麼就是只有這個執政黨行政院自己在作業呢我們從4月7號見到行政院院長一直到今天到今天院長之前說大家安心睡覺那個文定於立委說我們是第一波談判的非常驕傲的結果幾個月了四個月來到今天都是還是一個"},{"start":4677.76,"end":4682.284,"text":"大黑箱啊那本來我非常重視一點剛剛這個副代表也稍微點了一下這個保密協定內容是什麼我們國內自己的衝擊影響評估難道是保密嗎你跟美國簽訂是保密但我們自己呢我們沒有權利知道嗎你要改變產業改變勞工的命運影響他們工作生存權"},{"start":4699.739,"end":4705.884,"text":"那你要到什麼時候呢?你沒有衝擊報告,你要他們都家破人亡,你要他們都失業了,全部產業界倒閉了,才是你覺得是適當的這個時機嗎?那剛剛,當然我也一直說這個要受到這個條約地解法的這個國會監督,所以我想問,那到什麼時間點?什麼時間點是國會監督的條件呢?"},{"start":4722.719,"end":4725.102,"text":"8月7號就要生效了什麼時間點呢什麼時間點是這個你的生效時間呢所以第一個我們要求儘快那這個儘快大家都知道啦8月7號就要生效啦那還有儘快什麼就是這兩三天啊這個時候不來報告什麼時候來報告呢"},{"start":4740.819,"end":4744.102,"text":"所以這個報告內容我覺得我個人非常在意的非常重要的就是說影響衝擊評估這不可能是保密啦國內你自己有自己的版本你當初就要設定幾個版本啦假設我們談到這個程度國內影響是什麼這個程度影響是什麼這個完全到今天完全黑箱我們都不知道審查4100億叫我們遮著眼叫我們蒙著耳朵"},{"start":4765.979,"end":4768.123,"text":"然後叫我們去審查2700字要了4100億你這個時候就對我們保佑要求我們這樣蒙著眼這個來審查通過你們預算然後我們三奴通過還到處罵 到處抹黑是這樣做法的嗎"},{"start":4779.195,"end":4781.778,"text":"當年不要忘記你們反服貿反服貿有100場的說明會超過10場的公聽會最後還是被指控黑箱所以基本上我們就是要求立刻讓受到影響的全面影響這次不只是服務業產業勞工有權利知道而且時間迫在眉睫這是我們的要求"},{"start":4800.973,"end":4812.584,"text":"好 謝謝 那個各個黨團的代表現在已經完成了第二輪的發言那現在行政機關有要先回應嗎那個行政院的副秘書長你也要先回應嗎"},{"start":4817.679,"end":4839.641,"text":"你沒有要回應是不是好,那我們現在進行所謂第三輪的發言我們現在反正大家合個人而治也兩輪了啦那到底要不要保密協議本身可不可以再保密跟條約締結法的關係是什麼如果在8月7號生效那因為還在談"},{"start":4841.328,"end":4863.937,"text":"那還要再談多久那什麼時候才算是談完是不是接下來還要談三個月那三個月也不會來報告還要再談半年半年也不會來報告因為大家總是要有個時間的time frame這樣才知道國會到底要怎麼參與怎麼介入那否則的話那你們一直說雖然生效了但我們還在談"},{"start":4865.137,"end":4885.262,"text":"那還在談會談多久也不知道那但是總而言之在我們談出任何結果以前生效歸生效那我們就是沒有要來報告行政院的立場到底是什麼我相信大概國會啦多數的國人還是期待要說清楚講明白這件事情非常的重要"},{"start":4886.261,"end":4906.547,"text":"第二個部分就是說其他就實質的部分各個黨團有自己的政治立場跟說明包括是不是黑箱跟當初的主張事前事中的參與是不是一致這個各黨團都可以去開記者會各自大鳴大放"},{"start":4907.487,"end":4924.853,"text":"但是對於作為這一次的協商我想接下來我們是不是就聚焦一點請各黨團表達立場說第一個如果我們這個禮拜五跟下個禮拜二邀請行政院長來報告當然行政院長他自己去拿捏"},{"start":4926.453,"end":4951.18,"text":"所謂的保密協定哪些可以講哪些不能講那因為我們也不曉得保密協定的內容所以大概基本上就是行政院院長說了算他說什麼是保密就是保密那但是如果內容通通不能講最起碼還有衝擊影響跟準備是什麼總該跟國人報告還是說因為還沒談定我也不曉得衝擊是什麼"},{"start":4952.04,"end":4971.854,"text":"所以我也無法評估因此也沒有辦法做什麼準備那行政院的立場是不是這樣也一併跟全體的國人做說明所以我可能拜託各個黨團的代表就政治上面大家各自有各自的立場這個我們都理解那我們接下來是不是可以比較聚焦一點第一個"},{"start":4974.415,"end":4987.585,"text":"針對這個禮拜五跟下禮拜二邀請行政院院長來進行專案報告大家是不是同意第二個如果大家都同意的話那我們各個黨團希望各派"},{"start":4988.766,"end":5015.069,"text":"多少代表因為大概按照以前的議事成立每個人是15分鐘嘛但這個議題重大我相信希望能夠代表黨團那個上去發言的委員人數相對而言也會比較多那因此在這樣子的情況之下那各個黨團各自先發表一下看法希望這一次黨團代表的人數大概要界定在什麼地方"},{"start":5015.729,"end":5038.74,"text":"因為如果是禮拜五跟禮拜二請行政院長來專案報告的話我們當然就希望時間充分的利用時間充分的利用在這個時間可以容納的範圍之內盡可能讓多一點委員都有上去反映民意表達心聲的一個機會那我們第三輪的發言按照"},{"start":5040.281,"end":5048.356,"text":"順序的話剛剛第二輪先發言的是中國國民黨所以我們現在第三輪先發言的我們就先請民主進步黨黨團的代表來請吳思堯吳委員"},{"start":5054.525,"end":5076.363,"text":"謝謝主席 我的手大概舉了五分鐘沒有看過朝野協商都是主席一個人在講話甚至把朝野協商當作質詢一樣只有主席有權利可以把官員Cue上去像質詢一樣這個程序上我覺得還是要彼此尊重彼此尊重是重要的 提醒一下主席"},{"start":5077.386,"end":5094.768,"text":"那有幾個訊息我們還是要澄清跟說明在野黨的委員一直在說泰國跟日本為什麼可以公開他們是談定了之後就可以公開大家放心我們談定了以後所有的"},{"start":5096.21,"end":5124.055,"text":"條件、過程、協議都會公開大家不用擔心不要以他們是談定之後才公開而台灣目前還沒有談定所以目前沒有辦法公開用這個時間差來造成社會訊息的一個混淆第二個我們的立場希望國家的國人朝野政黨都是一致的在談得快跟談得好之間我們希望"},{"start":5125.171,"end":5151.782,"text":"能夠談得好只要有更好的條件台美雙方願意繼續談這就是一個讓國家隊持續再去爭取更好的條件如果能夠談得快 plus 談得好我也舉雙手雙腳都贊成全台灣產業國人社會都贊成但是現在就以"},{"start":5152.912,"end":5180.795,"text":"剛剛主席所說手上所拿的這個白宮公佈的行政命令的文件如果想讀就可以看得非常清楚以這份白宮公佈的行政命令的文件的附錄一很清楚的提示出部分國家就包括台灣是接近談判完成或是還未完成協議的國家放在附錄一的這個附件台灣就是在當中"},{"start":5181.495,"end":5208.664,"text":"所以這證明我們的團隊在談得快跟談得好當中我們持續往談得好的那個方向去努力我手上可以以這一屆國會大家更有經驗的剛剛那個主席所提的是台紐跟台新的FTA的這個談判的過程這一屆國會可能更熟悉的是應該是說上一屆大家印象深刻可能那時候"},{"start":5210.144,"end":5233.4,"text":"在場我是那一屆的立委那易宇也在我們可以看看台美21世紀的貿易協定很清楚的是2023年6月1號簽署協定但是因為談的過程有一些方向都明確了等於是相對是明確而且談定了所以行政部門呢也在2023年6月1號簽署協定前就陸續的在2023年的3月16號"},{"start":5240.044,"end":5267.027,"text":"優先來公佈首批協定的重要內容在2023年5月19號也優先的公佈完整的中英文的文本他連文本都公佈所以這個前提公佈資訊的前提是你談定與否的這件事而現在我們跟美國的關稅就是持續的在進行中再次強調我們應當支持國家談判團隊往更好的條件去爭取"},{"start":5268.246,"end":5292.449,"text":"所以呢,在野黨的委員很急切的想要現在公開、公開、公開想要現在看到內容、看到內容、看到內容或者是現在要求來公開所謂的保密協定我也特別去查了現在跟美國談判的這一百多個國家哪一個國家就保密協定的簽署的部分有公開"},{"start":5293.61,"end":5308.52,"text":"目前是沒有任何一個國家被公開但是我認為行政團隊當然也可以去跟美方問一下啦因為其他國家可能沒有該國的國會有這種要求那也可以因為這個保密協定就是雙方兩照嘛"},{"start":5309.381,"end":5337.102,"text":"去溝通一下保密協定該不該公開這個我個人覺得世界各國沒有啦台灣的國會就要求有這件事情是有點奇怪啦但是如果這個是兩照嘛兩照都同意的話好啊那保密協定要公開或許這個也是一個可以的方向但是呢如果因為在野黨的委員要求現在去公開這個大家都沒有公開的保密協定而造成後續的談判生變"},{"start":5340.256,"end":5354.643,"text":"造成美方有一些不悅或是影響了談判的內容跟進程那責任誰負啊國會負得起嗎在要求公開這個保密協定那要不要在野各黨我們來簽一個免責協定"},{"start":5357.598,"end":5380.619,"text":"責任歸屬的協定我們要共同嚴肅的面對現在就還在進行沒有人會去犧牲國家的利益沒有人會去犧牲產業的利益作為執政黨更有這樣子努力做到更好條件的責任跟使命啊這是現在執政團隊正在做的事情啊"},{"start":5381.5,"end":5408.152,"text":"所以呢要公開要公開要公開這件事情我們已經清楚的說明一旦談定內容該公開的所有事項都會公開沒有談定之前要求片面國會的要求台灣片面公開沒有經過兩造的同意就公開這可能引發的談判的負面的效果誰要承擔"},{"start":5409.659,"end":5437.84,"text":"最後一個回應主席一直在cue大家好禮拜五來啦就是禮拜五來禮拜五禮拜五跟下禮拜二一次院會直接就來排定行政院長就來然後各黨就幾位如果說8月7號以前談的定朝野確實可以就行政院長來報告的時間我們來議定他但現在就還在談沒有人知道啊要不然黃國昌主席打個電話給川普問一下好了"},{"start":5439.534,"end":5454.519,"text":"你去問一下台灣是不是8月7號以前可以談定可操之在我的我們全力以赴不可操之在我的在美方一直在這裡為難我們的行政團隊你背後背後都要來不管有說好沒說好都要來"},{"start":5457.864,"end":5487.046,"text":"然後就要求委員就是去質詢要求這個細節你都要講這對於繼續談判中是非常不利的大家放心大家放一百個心一萬個心談定之後該來的行政團隊都會面對就如同我第一次的發言執政黨的立場是一樣的國會的監督在談定之後"},{"start":5487.726,"end":5507.761,"text":"還不是簽署喔 是談定之後 方向明確之後即便是在簽署之前 就像台美21項世紀倡議一樣就應當來國會 該報告就報告該公開的文件 都公開拜託大家 作為自己國家的啦啦隊這個當下 一再的在做這些"},{"start":5514.502,"end":5538.5,"text":"我不知道該怎麼講,我心在講這個實在蠻沉痛的國會所有的文件最後批准跟審查都在國會現在給我們自己的談判團隊施以壓力你認為這樣對我們的談判團隊國人沒有支持,朝野沒有支持在前線談判的人,選手還在場上"},{"start":5539.591,"end":5562.482,"text":"我們就為自己的選手國家隊誠心誠意的團結支持加油有這麼困難嗎所以說該來的都會來該要面對的都會面對但是在不該公開的這個時間點之前強行要求公開就是對於我們的談判團隊給予壓力也不利於我們後續跟美方持續的談判我最後也要拜託"},{"start":5563.622,"end":5577.171,"text":"這個主席,我們是草野協商草野協商不是叫國安起來,你自己一個主席可以來,這樣質詢草野協商不這樣啦,好嗎這個程序上還是要請主席要注意一下"},{"start":5580.381,"end":5606.723,"text":"謝謝民進黨黨團代表的發言所以民進黨黨團基本上是不贊成禮拜五的跟下禮拜二來嗎不要用這種話術對不起因為我沒有聽到答案答案就是談定之後該來就來如果禮拜五要不要來如果談定那誰能知道禮拜五有沒有談定所以嘛你哪就要跟川普告訴你可以談定了嗎我現在就要民進黨一個清楚的立場"},{"start":5608.584,"end":5628.352,"text":"沒有人知道什麼時候談定啊所以民進黨的立場是談定以後再來那如果接下來一個月沒談定那也不用來兩個月沒談定也不用來三個月沒談定也不用來這就回到我剛剛講的你是要國家談得好還是談得快當然談得好啊 但問題是8月7號就要生效了啊因為我們給執政團隊談判的團隊一個最好的目標我們過去幾個月都支持執政團隊去談啊"},{"start":5635.655,"end":5648.738,"text":"一定要面對的那8月7號會生效吧不一定不一定嘛好那沒關係我們到8月7號以後我們到8月7號以後就知道會生效還是不會生效嘛對吧是是是這個我都了解之前10%這一段也是美國片面宣布就生效一樣的狀況你們各自有立場各自去開記者會我都沒意見今天我只要知道針對這一個會議"},{"start":5665.182,"end":5670.584,"text":"針對這個協商婚姻會不會有結論那我希望大家各個黨團就表達立場這個禮拜五跟下個禮拜二民進黨黨團是不贊成嘛我沒有說錯吧我們在具體講談定之後就馬上朝野協商來要求訂定行政院長來報告的時間"},{"start":5687.27,"end":5701.661,"text":"只要一旦談定之後我們可以第一時間一個小時內公佈一個小時內我們趕快交給協商然後來安排行政院團隊來報告的時間這沒有問題這沒有問題市長主席現在壓的時間就還沒有成立先停一下因為我剛剛已經給民進黨黨團我不是在質問他們啦希望他們表達立場我才好做結論嘛那接下來我們按照順序是請那個"},{"start":5715.859,"end":5737.655,"text":"應該是民眾黨要先了嘛對吧那我們接下來請民眾黨黨壇的代表民眾黨很明確的表示我們希望這個禮拜五跟下個禮拜二請總統太太做專案報告至於那個人數啊以前都是331或662或者18 17跟3因為非常的重大所以我建議人數就是"},{"start":5739.116,"end":5765.705,"text":"國民黨18民進黨17台灣民眾黨3位時間人數都清楚講了那我要明確非常嚴正的呼籲民進黨不要離人民那麼遠你先問問人民人民跟產業現在一定很急著要行政院長跟賴政府把真相趕快跟大家講現在是對產業跟企業是一個要不要觀察或者以後怎麼去因應對勞工再講"},{"start":5768.766,"end":5786.676,"text":"來講已經有5%的企業已經在裁員了這是他們產業跟勞工跟人民的生死存亡我希望民進黨不要離人民那麼遠不要擋禮拜五跟禮拜二的專報至於到底有沒有簽多嚴重的保密協定"},{"start":5791.84,"end":5818.411,"text":"全世界的主要的國家日本他的首相很早就邀請了朝野一起來討論共商南韓甚至是帶著三大企業一起去談判你看這是他們裡面得到一個最有力的是什麼讓美國的造船再度偉大他們不只是三星電子現代汽車一起去他們的韓華的造船一起去他們爭取到最有力的一個條件讓他們的"},{"start":5821.562,"end":5840.673,"text":"關稅降到15%這不就是現在在野黨跟很多產業一直在講的連我剛特別提醒了連當過民進黨行政院副院長的施進啟都站出來講請讓我們幫忙好不好讓全民一起來參與不要一直黑箱作業更何況"},{"start":5844.919,"end":5851.044,"text":"8月7號中午就要生效了這是鐵錚錚的事實啊你想你現在在擋那8月7號生效的時候之前你做了什麼準備你用安心稅把我們下行了現在川普又片面的公佈了行政命令之後這個比例20%又比南韓跟日本我們主要競爭對手又高更嚴重的我們現在正在談的是後面不只是把關稅降下來我們有哪些附帶的這個條件"},{"start":5871.721,"end":5875.124,"text":"全台灣絕大部分人都不知道 連郭志輝都不知道經濟部長說他沒有被派去當代表 完全不了解狀況他本來跟我們講 我們會比南韓 會比日本好結果呢 現在是不是應該趕快把黑箱打開至於民進黨一直在推脫 說行政院人來他們保密的協定講出來嗎"},{"start":5897.745,"end":5924.237,"text":"現在民眾要的是什麼你們可以參考一下嘛民眾黨跟國民黨我們都已經開過記者會把初級的衝擊評估告報都已經提出來了你也可以參考昨天中部七縣市縣市長的這個平台人家提出的要求公佈真相還有做哪些的因應從新竹市做哪些因應台中市做哪些因應每個縣市都有耶"},{"start":5925.222,"end":5948.638,"text":"你可以參考台灣民眾黨跟國民黨的也可以參考中部七線市的為什麼到現在不把黑箱打開呢請不要離人民那麼近那麼遠趕快跟人民靠近好不好之前那個不去救災已經被罵半死了你在針對這個高官稅的這個衝擊人民都清楚跟你講答案了所以請民進黨跟人民靠近趕快同意"},{"start":5950.075,"end":5957.18,"text":"這個禮拜五跟禮拜二趕快做報告一方面把整個談判的重要內容你至少講嘛為什麼是20%啊第一個是現在很多人民在問的啊你的附帶條件是什麼這個至少跟人民講吧那目前有衝擊你到底要怎麼去幫產業幫勞工幫企業你不是該做嗎請不要再離人民那麼遠請趕快跟人民站在一起謝謝"},{"start":5973.909,"end":5995.664,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝台灣民眾黨黨團的代表張綺蘿、張偉源那張偉源明確的代表台灣民眾黨表達立場第一個支持這個禮拜五、下個禮拜二來請行政院院長來進行報告那同時呢,對於各個黨團依照席次的比例那質詢也有一些初步的建議那我們最後,最後請中國國民黨黨團請問是"},{"start":5998.106,"end":5999.527,"text":"首先我想跟吳世耀委員說"},{"start":6025.086,"end":6049.984,"text":"我們在提案裡面民眾黨提案裡面講得很清楚是針對台美關稅談判的進程方針原則跟產業可能遭受衝擊影響評估請行政院長拜託懇求拜託行政院長來報告產業哀嚎都在受苦誰說這個提案裡面哪一個說要公佈保密協定"},{"start":6051.633,"end":6070.103,"text":"不要偷換概念啦 真的今天大家誠心在這個地方在誠心在這個地方我們討論是這個提案討論這個提案討論這個提案他不是這樣講討論很簡單他講的是保密協定到底的效力跟隨條例締結的效力誰優誰厚第二個我要說抱歉啦剛舉的例子 台新台紐的這個經濟協議"},{"start":6080.646,"end":6091.427,"text":"我在總統府也參與過幕僚作業啦我先講第一件事情關稅的結果沒有什麼暫時性這件事啦"},{"start":6092.917,"end":6100.399,"text":"經濟協議也好經濟結果也好關稅結果做出來就產業衝擊的開始8月7號就開始了哪有什麼暫時性沒有暫時性所有貿易談判本來就連續性的但是當有一個變動產生的時候它就是一個確定的結果難道針對這個確定的結果行政院院長沒有義務或者沒有同理心"},{"start":6122.441,"end":6125.967,"text":"來立法院做一個最快速最有效最及時的報告嗎第三個我要告訴大家事實上你也可以看到今天"},{"start":6134.838,"end":6153.464,"text":"比方我舉個例子川普就已經公佈20%的關稅這是個確定的關稅結果對產業就造成確定的衝擊我們就需要行政院長針對產業的衝擊做出明確的說明報告跟因應的方式這是萬分急迫的事情8月7號就確定了捏就要生效實行了捏你今天如果說你跟我講沒有我們後面還有談判"},{"start":6165.643,"end":6188.364,"text":"我跟各位講我也能夠理解跟諒解你今天後面談判有很多跟美方要所謂的協議的保密的事項但是今天針對現在已經確定的結果談判的結果協議公佈就是關稅公佈的結果你行政院長就有報告的義務啊將心比心啊"},{"start":6191.741,"end":6203.087,"text":"如果角色異位今天民進黨你也會出同樣的要求嘛你難道不需要政府對人民做出產業的因應的報告要求嗎難道不需要嗎第四個我要跟各位講今天其實為什麼會遇到這種狀況坦白講是前所未有啦這一點我可以理解我們的副總談判代表越從來沒有會佔先祥的潛力啊"},{"start":6222.605,"end":6225.848,"text":"台灣過去的貿易談判沒有位在先祥的潛力啊就民進黨執政出現啦我剛剛前面講的是四大讓步囉這四大讓步都不是秘密喔都是我們賴清德、卓榮泰或民進黨公開承諾公開宣布公開宣示的四大讓步喔還有實際在進行的四大讓步喔阿拉斯加天然氣"},{"start":6250.776,"end":6254.697,"text":"台積電建廠赴美投資然後匯率升值然後你可以看到國防預算提高這是我們已經所有國民看到了你已經做了四大讓步了為什麼會有這個史無前例被單面直接跟你講說我就是要20%因為沒有人在談判桌上是未談先讓的"},{"start":6280.285,"end":6293.93,"text":"沒有人在談判桌上是未談先讓的你到談判桌你把籌碼全部讓進的時候他給你20%我就才為什麼要問嘛你可以不打沒關係但我們還是要代替人民問你未談先讓的四個讓步四大讓步之後你現在得到的是20%的關稅你跟我講暫時性然後民進黨扣一個難道你不希望我們20%往下降嗎"},{"start":6309.949,"end":6329.558,"text":"這不是讓步耶 難道不希望20%往下降嗎我當然希望20%往下降啊但我對今天民進黨政府的談判能力我非常非常的懷疑啊非常非常的懷疑啊哪一個政府不是今天把所有的籌碼然後談判之後跟美國談所以呢 日本韓國談出15%我們政府不是耶先讓再說 讓完再談那你都已經讓了 我還跟你談什麼"},{"start":6340.06,"end":6364.985,"text":"那接下來談什麼就20%給你嘛最後一個我要說啊沒有暫時性這件事啦你去跟產業講暫時性啦他給你暫時性什麼照民進黨過去的慣例你的暫時性變成拖持藉口的時候這暫時性可以一年兩年十年二十年都可以暫時性啊如果關稅二十年都是20%不用二十年啦一年都是20%"},{"start":6367.401,"end":6371.104,"text":"那是不是今天這整個行政院這一年都不需要來報告產業衝擊啊不是啊就不需要報告產業衝擊我們院長還有32%還找我們去協商過咧他都比你們有同理心還敢提院長32%第二天馬上找朝野政黨進去開始協商報告習近平的做法對不對 還 何建平在那邊鬧場那一次 何建平還鬧場"},{"start":6396.172,"end":6399.474,"text":"所以你還跟我講說還要提到卓院長嗎所以在這邊真的拜託民進黨8月7日 不然這樣子副總談判會上台講你公開承諾8月7日之前這結果會改變我就在這邊公開反對我們民眾黨8月8日要報告的提案我公開反對啊你副總談判會上台講8月7日我保證會有新的關稅結果出來產業不會受衝擊零 衝擊零"},{"start":6426.294,"end":6431.604,"text":"你講完我們就不用報告了嘛可能嗎 猛著心問一下要不要對岔 吳思瑤"},{"start":6435.149,"end":6441.073,"text":"對啊 當然啊 因為你也不敢啊不要不要不要 待會兒你們講話不是 你剛剛就講嘛 你剛剛講8月7號還沒到嘛你自己講8月7號還沒到 一切都還有變化關稅可能不一樣 你講的啊所以你是用這個藉口阻擋卓榮泰的報告嘛剛剛國參院院長問了你多少次 國參院主席問了你多少次"},{"start":6462.794,"end":6487.495,"text":"沒關係 謝國昌主席啦 我口誤我承認我口誤我承認 好不好我道歉 可以了嗎國昌主席問了什麼事情我跟柯院長道歉我跟柯院長道歉柯建民我對不起你 院長封號封給別人了沒有 韓院長 韓院長無所謂因為柯建民比較想當院長韓國 韓院長無所謂的柯建民比較想當院長沒關係 回來他剛剛問你多少次啊"},{"start":6492.639,"end":6500.465,"text":"你就是不肯回答 你不是回答一句8月7號還沒到嗎不是關稅還有變動的可能性啊對啊 那請副總統台灣人代表給我們一點希望嘛上來跟大家保證嘛8月7號之前一定會改變啊那他上來我就馬上表態啊 我就反對啊 可以啊"},{"start":6518.24,"end":6524.474,"text":"不是 他上來表態說七一號就能保證可以有不同的關稅結果我當然就反對報告 我相信"},{"start":6525.486,"end":6528.608,"text":"國昌非院長原因反對報告啊不是嗎對不對不是這回事嗎所以最後保證如果你現在叫院長來以後影響了談判的進行你要負責任嗎你跟我講你跟我講產業衝擊的應變措施會影響談判的結果吳士堯你也拜託幫忙方針原則我沒有叫你講談判細節啊我有叫你講談判細節嗎我不插你話希望爭取下一輪的發言不是啊"},{"start":6554.388,"end":6567.876,"text":"你又在扣帽子嘛不要換概念一直換概念本來就是你一直在換概念啊什麼叫做好嚴重 院長來報告一下我們的應變措施美國關稅談判就會崩盤會這樣子怕成這樣你不要把人民視為洪水猛獸最後我要講吳世祥你要謝謝今天有研會"},{"start":6579.79,"end":6584.773,"text":"你們每天反對研會說什麼想要當薪水小偷不肯開會我告訴你怕什麼 怕這個說怕什麼怕人被抓 怕這個怕那個天天想當薪水小偷不肯研會今天要不要感謝我們今天要不要看看我們今天研會處理了什麼"},{"start":6602.285,"end":6609.407,"text":"臨時會你還要另外再過一個程序今天你研會研會馬上十萬火急就能夠出你待會再講待會補充有時間啦研會研會研會一樣可以處理不是啊研會就可以處理嘛欸抱歉你扣那麼多帽子我們今天不能夠稍微回應一下你都扣半年的帽子了"},{"start":6627.472,"end":6649.087,"text":"今天研會就剛好是救急啊不只是今天關稅我們今天可以用研會來處理啊包括重建條例也是啊重建條例民進黨死拖活拖拖了半天不肯做沒有做國民黨提案之後馬上吳世耀就很大度啊我支持我同意我贊成要做更多啊什麼時候處理"},{"start":6650.248,"end":6656.154,"text":"也是研會處理啊我們比你們早提啦我們比你們早提重建條例啦我跟你講我們吳幹事長我跟你講你的本事我現在還見識到你們連那個額略一路反對到底最後可以拿到海報說"},{"start":6670.168,"end":6690.159,"text":"民進黨支持而虐死刑還說國民黨護航而虐我當天看到那一個你們的海報我就當場嚇到下巴掉下來舌頭大結了啦就是這麼回事嘛你現在又可以講說你們本來就支持重建條例請問為什麼慢吞吞啊國民黨提案之後你們速度才加快啊這也是事實啊"},{"start":6691.164,"end":6718.902,"text":"所以回頭講啊真的有些事情不要逞一時之快當時說出很多的話今天說實在的話你會回頭要感謝一下民眾黨跟國民黨我們能夠今天願意能夠把會期延長不會跑去想要去休假放假放輕鬆來去審查法案審查預算審查今天包括重建特別條例這才是今天一個立法院立法委員該負的責任謝謝"},{"start":6722.393,"end":6740.541,"text":"好 謝謝喔 那個國民黨黨團我這樣聽起來如果我意思沒有理解錯誤的話你們也是支持禮拜五跟禮拜二請行政院長來做專案報告嘛那人數我們就依照那個調整那我們現在要做一個決定啦是不是各個黨團的代表我們要進行第四輪的討論"},{"start":6742.684,"end":6763.895,"text":"我知道你有舉手,請不要急今天主席先道歉我其實基本上各個黨團的委員每個發言都超過我剛設定的三分鐘我也都沒阻止這個是主席的錯誤,但沒有關係因為我覺得這個議題國人非常的重視"},{"start":6764.975,"end":6791.035,"text":"那過去的這幾個月當中我們大家也都在苦苦的等待那很多產業、很多勞工那也非常的重視那因為面對這麼大的議題啦所以我想說各個黨團的代表想要繼續的針對這個議題進行發言那我覺得也是人之常情那導致這個協商大概我們到目前為止已經進行了"},{"start":6792.136,"end":6808.134,"text":"一個小時又23分鐘那既然各個黨團的代表有表達意願要繼續的發言我也不好意思就在這邊就這邊做打斷那不過在整個時間工作上面的分配我現在是不是先請台灣民眾黨"},{"start":6811.097,"end":6826.811,"text":"黨團的代表張祺凱、張委員先站在主席的位置來主持這個會議那台灣民眾黨黨團的代表我們就請陳昭之委員來針對黨團的立場來進行發言那我接下來的會議主持就交給台灣民眾黨黨團"},{"start":6828.132,"end":6844.02,"text":"的張綺凱張委員來請張委員那張委員再麻煩你按照之前黨團的順序這邊有個輪值表我當主席很公平的一個黨團發言一次然後每次順序交錯進行來請那個張委員來接主席的位置謝謝"},{"start":6848.683,"end":6876.495,"text":"沒有,只有羅志強發言一次,剛陳永康將軍並沒有說話整個發言的順序在這邊,都有客觀的歷史事實,大家都可以對IVOD所以第四輪從哪邊開始?主席離場是什麼意思?"},{"start":6879.696,"end":6885.084,"text":"還會回來嗎主席都不想講了我們在這裡做什麼"},{"start":6887.066,"end":6913.494,"text":"七開委員主席還會回來嗎他都不想講了這是他著急的那我們還要再繼續這裡不過你看他多好讓大家都可以講因為這個議題太重要了啦我們很期待今天我們很期待大家充分表達意見然後最後能夠針對產業跟人民的人民的要求為什麼主席跑了這麼重要我們很慎重啊我們經濟委員會照理回來了對啊他會讓你們大家都可以表達意見你看已經開了一個半小時還不夠重視嗎為什麼主席跑了"},{"start":6913.974,"end":6923.22,"text":"我只是想問一下代理主席這麼重要為什麼主席跑了他已經開了一個半小時就是很重要讓他開了一個半小時啊而且我代理你還是可以繼續講為什麼主席跑了請您回答這個問題啊民進黨的代表請解決問題不要一直只有在製造問題就是這麼重視所以讓大家充分的發言好 接下來代理主席沒有辦法回答這個問題啊"},{"start":6942.872,"end":6945.219,"text":"所以這麼重要的議題為什麼主持跑了"},{"start":6948.188,"end":6963.16,"text":"代理主席沒有辦法回答這個問題嗎這麼重要的關稅議題叫別人趕快來為什麼主席跑了為什麼主席跑了為什麼黃國昌主席跑了為什麼黃國昌主席跑了我還是不曉得為什麼要做報告表達立場了是讓國民黨還是做秀做一做就跑了為什麼是讓國民黨跟台灣民眾黨都已經清楚表達希望"},{"start":6978.071,"end":6994.945,"text":"這個禮拜五跟禮拜二請行政院長來專案報告那民進黨現在還有意見我們就繼續再討論好不好那我們為了公平齁剛剛是陳永康陳委員跟裴以都已經有舉手嘛好我們先請那個陳永康陳委員等一下那個招致第三位好不好來要讓裴以先講來來裴以先講來"},{"start":7002.742,"end":7014.18,"text":"等一下 所以代理主席可以主持完今天我先問程旭的問題喔代理主席可以主持完今天的會議然後最後做出結論嗎還是我們要等主席回來可以請代理主席先回答程旭問題嗎"},{"start":7018.994,"end":7034.036,"text":"主席代理主席我剛有問你是我們要等黃國昌委員回來還是你最後這邊會做完結論還是對我先問一下程序問題我是代理主席嘛等一下我來做最後的裁決好不好當然我裁決一定要經過大家同意你就先講吧"},{"start":7036.089,"end":7061.154,"text":"好我先講一下今天的議案關係文書裡面其實最後一句話談到的是關於台美關稅談判之進程方針原則及台灣產業可能遭受是衝擊影響評估於一個月內進行專案報告並被質詢我不知道為什麼突然間就變成了二五就馬上要行政院來進行報告第二個我們剛剛也已經問了如果"},{"start":7061.994,"end":7069.076,"text":"如果所有的報告或者是我們可以想像務必可以想馬上就可以想像假設二五就已經要造成這個請院長來報告那所有在野黨委員一定會抓著細節問抓著內容問那我就不知道到時候造成的國際談判上的衝擊從28 20%又變回32%這件事情誰要負責"},{"start":7082.799,"end":7086.541,"text":"我很想問在野黨委員你們要負責嗎你們要勇敢的說對你們敢簽免責協定你們敢負責你們要負責那我們就來看看會發生什麼事情再來你們都一直不敢談到232232是台灣非常重要的你們老是說他們是護國神山大家也都知道232所牽涉的不管是在台灣或是在韓國、泰國、日本"},{"start":7106.71,"end":7133.36,"text":"每一個國家在232所適用的產業跟會造成不同產業之間的衝擊難道可以所有國家都一起談嗎難道所有國家狀況都是一樣的嗎你們明明知道台灣在半導體產業這件事情上有非常大的空間需要不同黨派的委員都給予支持但你們現在避而不談232的部分我也覺得很遺憾所以我也認為這件事情"},{"start":7134.821,"end":7157.836,"text":"其實不是只有行政院長出來報告我也認為在野黨委員你們自己要把自己的立場說清楚你們到底要不要支持國家團結你們到底要不要支持台灣所有的產業你們在面對所有關稅衝擊就只會講衝擊你們對於各行各業所會影響到的層面有沒有說清楚更不要講你們在週末的時候拼命的造謠說把匯率跟關稅算在一起這件事情我們也看不出你們的立場"},{"start":7158.937,"end":7185.876,"text":"再來我要問的是剛剛還有人好意思說服貿當年馬英九的國策顧問郝先生郝明義先生是出版業非常重要的前輩當時這些事情會變成輿論所關注的焦點當年他寫的文章我就唸給大家聽標題就好叫做我們剩不到24小時了如何阻止政府在兩岸文化政策上愚昧無能粗魯而自我感覺良好的倒退"},{"start":7186.816,"end":7202.772,"text":"當年出版產業會受到哪些影響我們完全沒有辦法想像而當時連龍應台文化部長在收到郝明義先生電話當面見面之後文化部都說我們不知道發生了什麼事情我們不知道簽了什麼我們甚至不知道這個協議正在進行然後就發生了"},{"start":7206.502,"end":7211.545,"text":"而現在行政團隊也好賴清德總統也好都親自站上火線包含羅志強委員你剛剛說的啊你說那叫四個退讓啊就代表沒有秘密嘛沒有秘密該說的都跟你們說你們質疑的都說能說的都說了我要講的是能說的都說了你今天可以走進任何一個便利商店說你站出來我要知道你的進貨成本你今天可以走進任何一個公司產業說你們正在談判的協議我們都要知道"},{"start":7234.379,"end":7246.184,"text":"這個不是知識 這叫嘗試沒有嘗試也要看電視你連國與國之間在協議進行當中必須要保密的事情你們都要拿起來說嘴我不知道這是連電視都不看還是連嘗試都沒有最後我要說我們支持民眾黨這個提案叫做一個月"},{"start":7255.12,"end":7270.608,"text":"來報告一個月內我們支持但是莫名其妙提出所謂禮拜五禮拜二就立刻要來然後你們在野黨委員也不敢提出承諾如果關稅又回到32%你們是不是要站出來道歉你們要不要說明造成國際上這樣的衝擊你們要不要說明以上 謝謝"},{"start":7274.534,"end":7292.405,"text":"好 我們要公平 所以等一下成國民黨然後接下來是民眾黨因為剛剛陳佩儀 陳委員兩度提到我們台灣民眾黨也是現在行政院 立法院會交給我們這次協商的重點這個提案上面寫的是清清楚楚所以我們支持你們的提案你們支持很好我們支持你們一個月來報告我們就因為是你們"},{"start":7297.269,"end":7310.407,"text":"剛剛黃國昌主席自己突然冒出禮拜五跟禮拜二然後接下來羅志強你們就跟著附和但是請你回到你們今天提案是一個月內對啊一個月內不是包括禮拜五跟下個禮拜二嗎我們就支持你們的一個月內的時間好嗎"},{"start":7314.452,"end":7322.515,"text":"主席也走了大家沒有共識就這樣嘛可是你馬上就要壓日期我們沒有辦法我們再講我們支持民眾黨的提案現在國民黨跟台灣民眾黨提這個禮拜五不是就是一個月內嗎最重要是全民現在需要快請那個民進黨請民進黨尊重主席的主持好不好因為你們剛剛一直"},{"start":7334.219,"end":7345.148,"text":"你們的主席都不尊重我們了你們的主席都甩頭就走都不尊重我們協商代表了你們開了一個半小時你們一直表達意見所以很了不起喔主持的人開來開會這樣尊重我們幹嘛跟我們吵架"},{"start":7351.993,"end":7361.698,"text":"對啊你幹嘛忽然站在主席台代理主席後跟我們就忽然槓起來沒有必要這樣啊玉女現在討論怎麼有槓起來我在做陳培你的提醒說這個禮拜五是不是跟一個月內有關係我說一個月內就包括這禮拜五嘛對不對玉女我們指使你們的提案一個月內玉女你認識中文字法玉女因為沒談完你叫人家就一個月內相信一個月內就談得完嘛"},{"start":7377.486,"end":7383.346,"text":"那我們不同意說這個禮拜五馬上要開對一個月內我們支持這是民眾黨的提案"},{"start":7385.252,"end":7399.244,"text":"對 一個月內來召開那禮拜五馬上這一件事這樣太快了你們換位坐下來聽我講嗎你們的主席都不尊重朝野協商了你們的主席都不尊重我們禮拜五不就是一個月內嗎禮拜五我們這個時候還在談不適宜的要一個月內啊"},{"start":7408.861,"end":7430.217,"text":"禮拜五就是一個月內嘛請你們說一下 等一下可以衝問表達意見來 我們請國民黨的陳永康 陳委主席 代理主席在座的政府的同仁我提一個建議 我不做批評 提建言就是"},{"start":7434.212,"end":7435.793,"text":"美國要求增加國防預算 從3%到5%"},{"start":7450.985,"end":7478.806,"text":"国防预算增加里面大部分的钱是在美国采购军事装备那这个军购里面包括FMS DCS FMF PDA这四个里面有许多的价钱是可以抵消我们的就我们来讲贸易顺差美国当初要提20%关系一开始32%把我们排第六名因为我们的顺差太大对他是逆差可是这个如果"},{"start":7479.807,"end":7494.903,"text":"DCA就是直接商售買的軍售裝備目前並沒有抵銷順差所以在談判過程中我相信談判的代表是專家但並不代表所有的專業專家都納入談判代表"},{"start":7495.62,"end":7513.243,"text":"所以就DCS还有总统授权法案的无偿军购但是后面的料配件是要商售花钱买这些专业的领域往后十年可以抵消许多的贸易顺差谈判代表这个部分建请纳入谈判"},{"start":7514.404,"end":7539.56,"text":"这个是真正可以抵消它的那至于上次我有机会质询你232的部分我们没有时间谈那就这一次你们去美国谈判是我们的谈判总代表跟USTR直接清炒约再交由TECRO跟AIT去endorse NDANDA的内容可以不公布NDO的框架请提供给我们管制多久就法谈法"},{"start":7540.16,"end":7547.906,"text":"那我對大家只有建言 沒有批評我們希望你們做得更好對國家的利益能夠更加的保持 謝謝好 謝謝這個陳委員非常理性的這個建言來 我們接下來按照順序啦 公平我們請那個台灣民眾代表 陳昭之 陳委員"},{"start":7562.729,"end":7582.925,"text":"謝謝民進黨的同事繼續留下來剛剛你們都提到232的部分那232既然這麼重要也不知道之前就是台積電的案子處理得這麼快那232既然這麼重要它怎麼會是分開處理呢就是說為什麼我們從4月一直等到現在我們也希望就是說"},{"start":7583.846,"end":7605.305,"text":"有什麼樣訊息需要大家來協助的在野黨的時候大家一定會共赴國難的但是真的到四個月等了四個月等等等到今天都一無所知所以到底幾階段的談判到底從這個一定要有這些對跟國內這個大家朝野大家有一些各國人想辦法現在有些企業界也出來說讓我們來幫忙讓我們來幫忙嘛"},{"start":7608.848,"end":7612.549,"text":"所以一直讓我們在完全無知不知的情況之下那勞團他們是害怕恐懼你知道有多少勞工團體是在跟在野黨求救他們準備失業他們甚至被裁員被無薪假減薪等等都已經發生了那在這個情況下我覺得目前都沒有安定民心的行話都是太空泛的行話"},{"start":7635.177,"end":7639.78,"text":"那二三二當然我們都說我們在等這個但是我也不理解也許請談判總在總談判的了解為什麼說明一下為什麼他當初是被分開他們因為那是我們已知最重要的籌碼那我也要回應就是說雖然我知道過去也許不是這樣談剛剛陳將軍談到的我們在國防預算的部分為什麼沒有辦法是有困難是提了被拒絕還等等為什麼不能納入因為這個部分就已經足以抵消"},{"start":7665.317,"end":7675.342,"text":"希望院長能夠來做報告那我還是講一句三天嘛剩下三天的時間嘛已經是一百小時內的事情這個一個月內請到我剛剛特別看一下這個這份資料發的時候是7月18號我們怎麼會知道怎麼會知道"},{"start":7684.182,"end":7692.627,"text":"這麼快就公佈了一個20的資料在這裡那一個月內事實上是過去的管理但是7月 你遠看7月18號那現在8月7號要生效嘛所以我想如果我們意味而處的話我們不同的角色來看我們今天一定會要求趕快來報告因為馬上就要揭曉了嘛馬上就要揭曉 好 以上好 各個黨團已經進行了四輪的這個說明跟意見的充分表達那"},{"start":7713.757,"end":7736.748,"text":"事實上今天的協調會是因為院會交下來這個按鈕寫得清清楚楚第一個是一個月內進行專案報告並被執行一個月當然從今天算都是一個月內這是一個事所以沒有禮拜五太急的這個事情這個要先明確的這個說明那第二個這個按鈕裡面講的是什麼請行政院長率同相關部會的首長就"},{"start":7737.861,"end":7767.233,"text":"台美談判的進程、方針、原則還有大家非常關心的事實上這個就是趙志毅在提的我們第一次被公佈32%的時候我們到了行政院三長去行政院我們就要求的就是對於台灣產業可能遭受到的衝擊評價評估報告這部分行政院到現在沒有很明確的跟我們的民眾講所以我們要求這部分針對這四部分來做專案報告所以時間有了專案的內容也有了"},{"start":7768.308,"end":7791.085,"text":"然後講甚至有沒有什麼保密的這個內容根本就沒有影響到所以剛剛包括國民黨跟台灣民眾黨非常明確的建議這個禮拜五跟下個禮拜二邀請行政院院長來做專案報告然後這個剛剛台灣民眾黨也建議了這個人數就是依照18、17比3來分配那如果民進黨不要再有意見我們是依照這樣"},{"start":7792.575,"end":7803.038,"text":"現在真的 那個思雅 全國的民眾都在等啦我可以爭取發言嗎 主席我只是先提醒 等一下會讓思雅講思雅 我只是提醒你你上次風災的時候 你看風災老蔣剛剛在討論說什麼風災的重建條例風災很好 這周他們馬上就提出了行政院禮拜四就會提出特別條例了民進黨 事實上最早的是台灣民眾黨 是我代表上去提的喔"},{"start":7814.842,"end":7822.747,"text":"風災後第五天我們就提出要重塑重觀人家在災區第一線就已經要求了然後要趕快提災後重建條例就是談到最早的你們已經錯過了時機了好啦今天不要再講風災了那今天不要高關稅風災錯過今天高關稅又錯過民眾不會原諒你們好我可以發言囉好請說"},{"start":7837.523,"end":7845.381,"text":"這個我非常佩服我們的代理主席永遠可以帶風向真的是很強大這樣子然後但都是背離事實"},{"start":7847.678,"end":7868.073,"text":"我們今天就是也談了這麼久的時間只是非常的遺憾這麼重要的協商主持人黃國昌主席就甩頭走人了也沒有看過那這樣他是多麼重視的這個協商我也不解那民進黨團我們從頭到尾今天現在是第五輪的發言我們非常的慎重黨團的兩長連經濟文化的召委蔡義渝召委都來這裡來參與討論"},{"start":7873.978,"end":7877.344,"text":"我們的結論就是我們同意今天民眾黨黨團就願會交付下來的這一個決議"},{"start":7882.113,"end":7905.127,"text":"的內容案由寫得很清楚在這些要報告的事項於一個月內進行專案報告並備諮詢就一個月內談定之後該來就馬上來如果今天你們要跳躍逾越你們自己的提案內容直接進行又再去壓縮了時間在談判還沒出來之前就要求什麼8月8號或下週二這個"},{"start":7906.728,"end":7926.104,"text":"協商結論我們愛南同意我們同意的是原始的提案因為這才是今天協商的標的第二個呢這個台美的談判就如同我們今天的協商都還沒有進入最終局今天這個就立法院的議事規則是由提案的黨團所召集的黨團協商"},{"start":7927.385,"end":7956.428,"text":"后续还有韩国瑜院长真正的院长不是黄院长是韩国瑜院长还有一关他召集的朝野协商如果今天在党团协商没有办法有共识的话就请韩国瑜院长再召集各党团大党边境也都没有来那再召集一次朝野协商我们可以获得更可能有更好的结果也不一定所以今天的结论民进党团非常清楚的再次表明我们的立场谈判在进行当中我们要克尊"},{"start":7957.108,"end":7962.37,"text":"我們的國際談判的一些原則世界上各國沒有任何一國的國會要求談判過程當中就要公開一些談判過程的資訊確實世界各國沒有世界各國也沒有任何一個國家在談判過程就被迫要求所謂的保密協議這些都是台灣的國會都是創下這個沒有見過的這種要求"},{"start":7983.94,"end":8013.323,"text":"那一个月来报告我们就遵循院会交付下来的这个决议民进党团支持的是这个决议那至于其他的部分刚刚陈永康委员提的建议也好或者是陈昭志委员对半导体产业的这个决议也好后续再一些质询其实各委员会都在进行专案报告各委员会其实也都在排定相关的专案报告那这些部分都可以把好的意见带给我们的谈判代表给我们的行政团队那我们希望今天协商没有结论"},{"start":8013.843,"end":8019.07,"text":"但是它就不是終局 還有韓院長 曹營協商各黨團可以再談 那大家都辛苦了 謝謝"},{"start":8034.667,"end":8050.343,"text":"這個會議經過了五輪的發言大家充分的表達事實上黃國昌黃主席也非常重視所以這個會議一共進行了一個小時45分鐘那國民黨跟台灣民眾黨非常明確的要求這個禮拜五進行"},{"start":8054.987,"end":8073.721,"text":"專案報告由行政院院長周中泰率各部位的首長就台美談判的進程方針原則跟台灣產業可能受到衝擊影響評估報告進行專案報告並被質詢而且時間是一個月內那現在國民黨跟民進台灣民眾黨已經提了這個禮拜五可是呢"},{"start":8074.861,"end":8085.203,"text":"民進黨反對在禮拜我們希望韓院長召集朝野協商吧今天沒有結論依照議事規則可以直接進行我們在這裡要求韓院長召集朝野協商我們要求韓院長召集朝野協商"},{"start":8097.906,"end":8109.515,"text":"我們現場都要求了我們都要求了我們都要求立法院長久的議員不要忘記韓院長的存在不要忘記韓院長的存在本黨團在這裡具體要求韓院長交集朝野協商今天我們的要求不要架空韓國瑜院長好不好主席請看一下這叫做黨團協商一道慣例就是黨團協商沒有談好的話"},{"start":8123.726,"end":8128.03,"text":"就是我們也現場要求韓國瑜院長召開朝野協商黨團協商沒有結論的話依慣例我們現場也已經提出了再交由韓院長的朝野協商這是立法院的議事規則好嗎這是立法院的議事規則不要胡扯了"},{"start":8141.544,"end":8143.305,"text":"張其凱不要胡扯了好嗎我們要求和余朝野協商好嗎這是什麼主持啊你主持不下去然後下不了台然後就只會在這邊人身攻擊"},{"start":8157.21,"end":8161.011,"text":"那你要尊重我們的要求啊既然今天黨團協商沒有結論必然的程序我們也現場提出請韓國瑜院長召集朝野協商就是這樣你講的才是錯的在蘇嘉全蘇院長的時候只要黨團協商沒有結論就是韓院長他必然召集朝野協商除非韓院長他不協商除非韓院長你才造謠你根本不懂不會當立委回家去啦"},{"start":8187.663,"end":8199.263,"text":"請尊重韓國瑜院長你們現在民眾黨是怎樣眼中都沒有韓國瑜院長了嗎我說尊重韓院長召集協商啦立法院有慣例嘛讓韓院長來召集協商啊"},{"start":8200.168,"end":8205.55,"text":"在蘇嘉全擔任立法院的時候因為他任職之後要怎麼處理當時大家都同意院長不再召集朝野協商的狀況之下可是今天民進黨團具體的要求這個議案我們希望韓院長的朝野協商不能夠被踐踏不能被逾越我們現場已經提出要求了我們已經提出要求不要視而不見"},{"start":8228.34,"end":8234.761,"text":"不要視而不見代理主席不要視而不見我們的意見就是既定的詮釋你們周恩來的書還能看嗎周恩來哪裡公正了周恩來哪裡公正了你們 我們就具體要求韓院長學生你才莫名其妙你意思是韓院長召集的所有超越學生"},{"start":8254.085,"end":8257.726,"text":"你就是只會學黃國昌那一招就是要把所有的表決卡在你們主持的黨團協商把韓院長的權力也閹割了"},{"start":8278.231,"end":8290.882,"text":"以後韓院長再也不用協商了因為只要黃國昌民眾黨召集黨團協商你們就押一個你們自己認定的片面的結論說我們送院會處理不要這樣凌駕委員會中心主義已經被你們凌駕閹割成這樣不要連韓院長的朝野協商都要沒收不要連韓院長的權利都要沒收填我的名號不好意思兩個路徑本來都有就不要亂講好不好"},{"start":8305.635,"end":8314.727,"text":"本來都有啊 再說一次 也沒有說一定要學院長學長你聽到了我們的要求了嗎國民黨的委員要嫁給韓國瑜院長嗎這兩個路徑都有跟教育的關係你要求嗎"},{"start":8323.739,"end":8343.339,"text":"博士強尼反對林昶堅韓院長協商嗎可以處理相信韓院長會有智慧協商我們剛剛又沒有說黨團協商沒有公司做教育協商可是我要回頭講啊我沒說你們不對啊但你也不要譴責主席我們沒有說你們"},{"start":8346.722,"end":8365.295,"text":"不要三岡道加工韓國瑜沒有這回事過去兩個路徑都有對不對韓國瑜院長協商有什麼不對過去兩個路徑都有沒有不對那兩個路徑是絕對對都認為不需要再協商的狀況我們認為需要我們認為需要給韓院長協商的權利吧你們認為需要尊重嗎好 那就尊重"},{"start":8376.642,"end":8386.705,"text":"因為我自己要說要尊重我們的意見我可以坐下來你不要扯到說這叫架空韓院長根本兩回事不要咬我半吨主席那他也尊重韓院長可以協商那就這樣"},{"start":8391.827,"end":8400.817,"text":"我說尊重你提出署章但是我不能接受你把他上綱到加封韓院長院長寫不寫上本來兩個路徑都從一層的我們也會行文給韓院長我們也會要求只是非常的悲哀現在民眾黨永遠要用黨團寫章做結論"},{"start":8411.869,"end":8433.249,"text":"那我們已經很清楚了我們希望這個案子可以繼續談一個月內你們的原始提案我們都支持支持一個月內行政院長來報告我們都支持對啊你們這樣不尊重不是不尊重栗不尊重主席也是不尊重栗法院不尊重自己好我來做個好我把麥克風關掉了請尊重栗法院好不好"},{"start":8434.838,"end":8463.637,"text":"好 本來就是像對呀 沒錯啊你們一直吵到來消音你們不尊重自己也不尊重立法院啊好 你們剛剛提案最重要的事實上就是志強講的兩個路徑本來兩個路徑本來就是都可以的在蘇嘉全擔任立法院院長的時候因為每次為了草野協商之後要不要馬上直接處理還是要經過院長那時候有過爭執後來做的決定就是兩個途徑都可以請尊重慣例"},{"start":8465.455,"end":8480.022,"text":"回去看一下周恩來的書好不好回去看看立法院長久建立的議事慣例好不好我再講一次給你聽好不好不要造謠吳思瑤不要造謠在蘇嬌前擔任院長的時候"},{"start":8480.882,"end":8504.437,"text":"朝野協商的這個結論要送到直接院會處理或者送到院長再協商一次已經有決定兩條路徑就可以了就是依照議事規則那現在民進黨也要求其中一條路徑雖然是兩條都可以的所以本席來宣告今天的結論各黨團已經進行了五輪的這個充分的這個說明了可是呢今天的這個協商過程在公開狀況之下"},{"start":8505.575,"end":8516.062,"text":"還是有些爭議我們把今天公開的過程發言全部內容金魚魚記錄 請把它記錄下來那本案因為沒辦法取得共識 國民黨跟"},{"start":8518.223,"end":8538.923,"text":"民眾黨都提了這個禮拜五可是民進黨表示反對所以我們後續要依照議事規則也是依照立法院之前行使法的第12條相關的規定來辦理依照第12章的相關規定來辦理就是依照議事規則我剛剛講了兩個路徑都是可以的好 今天非常謝謝"},{"start":8540.914,"end":8556.344,"text":"國民黨還有立法院的黨團還有台灣民眾黨的黨團各個代表的這個出席也謝謝行政院官員的這個累洗所以我們今天就做成以上的這個結議接下來就依照議事規則來處理好今天協商會議到此結束謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":8572.79,"end":8598.677,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8607.312,"end":8612.312,"text":"響鐘"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}