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謝謝主席 我們有請陳主委有請陳主委 那萬美齡委員資訊我們休息十分鐘 好 謝謝委員長"},{"start":16.069,"end":37.005,"text":"好 主委早主委我想根據花蓮馬太安溪艷澀湖災後重建特別條例我們很清楚知道主管紀萬氏行政院公共工程委員會就您這裡那本席也看到在工程會的業報當中施政成果跟重點你第一點就寫到是統籌災後復建重建深入災區強化協調 對嗎"},{"start":40.352,"end":67.337,"text":"那主委剛剛報告當中我也聽到馬太安西燕色湖災後重建中央協調匯報是由陳主委擔任執行秘書每個月都會定期操開這個協調匯報來統合跨部會的資源協力推動災後災區重建的工作而且您也說到說工程會已經依馬太安重建條例第11條規定建置這個重建的專區那確保民眾可以及時因為大家都很關心嘛"},{"start":67.777,"end":85.092,"text":"即時獲取正確完整的資訊那麼公開的內容我想是不是請主委看一下這個就是專區嗎這個是專區的內容嗎我是不是請負責的主管沒有主委先回答一下沒有錯吧因為應該是啦我從你的官網上拉下來的嘛"},{"start":87.72,"end":106.902,"text":"就這一個 就這個部分 因為這是你官網就沒有意義啦所以你也不要那麼緊張喔 我們就來看一下喔你看喔 現在在這個光復體防一標 二標 三標的部分 大家都完成了但是在導流體保護工的這個部分 實際進度其實只有36%跟7%然後你看 你的預定完工要在4月18號 可能嗎"},{"start":110.688,"end":122.663,"text":"跟委員報告齁 那個這個是水利署那時候資料填錯那我們同仁有發現之後已經請那個水利署水利署資料給錯 好 主委他們登記錯誤 所以我們同仁發現現在不好意思喔 這個是你們的專區耶"},{"start":124.401,"end":130.704,"text":"這是你們的官網專區你賴到水利署去這樣有對嗎當然是業務是水利署在執行所以你看這個應該這麼講就是說你是要負責協調然後配合督導考核等等的可是在你的官網上面資料嚴重錯誤按照你講嚴重錯誤我們來看到你所提的這個水利署"},{"start":146.852,"end":167.094,"text":"你看訊息就要來了如果按照你剛剛所說的進度還這麼落後甚至於這個下游才7%這是很可怕的事情耶所以呢其實是本席去問了水利署說你們的進度怎麼會這樣水利署才說沒有啊我們的進度很好啊我們來看下一張簡報那我們來看到這個導流題的進度下一張"},{"start":170.755,"end":191.648,"text":"現在這個進度在這個馬太安溪你們自己的官網上面有寫到上游是36.2%那下游是7.78%然後呢這個水利署給我們的這個資料是其實它已經在上游完成了85%下游是72%那水利署的部分也告訴我們說沒有啊它是這樣子跟你們回報的啊就你們資料現在弄錯在這裡答詢還要賴給水利署怎麼對啊"},{"start":196.425,"end":219.57,"text":"整個水利工程在第一二三標的堤防就是這個藍邊的這個主要的高規格堤防會如期來完成主委我跟您報告喔這個部分呢是因為我們發現了這個地方我們去跟水利署詢問才發現水利署很認真在做工程的進度現在也如期但是呢我覺得既然呢我們工程會是一個協調啦這個審核的一個機關啊你怎麼可以在官網上面的這個數字這麼隨便啊"},{"start":224.991,"end":230.456,"text":"我覺得這個可能要請同仁再加強要用心一點啦好 這個我們來改進這是弄錯了對不對是不是至少要知道現在有沒有錯 錯在哪裡啊如果本席提出這樣的書頂都還不知道這就更可怕了一點正確的已經在官網上主委你知道正確的怎麼會在官網上嗎也是今天早上才改的啊"},{"start":251.277,"end":274.069,"text":"你今天早上才改的 也就是說你昨天的進度大概7%今天就可以 來到72%你是弄錯了不用說明了 這很清楚就是弄錯了那我覺得主委 如果有弄錯官罰上面的東西其實也很重要從這個小地方也可以看得出來其實大家嚴謹度謹慎度不夠所以我希望主委能夠督導一下那更用心一點 可以嗎好 沒問題"},{"start":275.109,"end":302.517,"text":"那接下來呢 一樣喔 百姓問了非常多次在這個總諮詢的時候也跟這個院長交換過意見就是我們桃園鐵路地下化喔那主委你自己剛剛在報告最後也有提到說工程會始終致力於協助各機關解決在公共工程推動過程中遇到的困難跟障礙嘛你也特別提到這個部分確保公共工程可以順利進行喔但是主委啊 我們桃園鐵路地下化目前遇到的困難跟障礙你有掌握嗎"},{"start":305.54,"end":322.057,"text":"台灣鐵路地下化這個進度有的是過去有些改善有些跟原計畫有一些更動那麼有些修正計畫那主委知道為什麼有這些更動嗎這是地方提出來的不是啦 主委"},{"start":323.098,"end":344.931,"text":"我覺得你既然是要督導這些公共工程就要很了解到底發生什麼事情嘛你當然是地方提出來為什麼會提出來因為中央的工程延宕了嘛這個發包的工程是在中央那我們過去有各種問題不管是這個缺工缺料不管是疫情不管是我們看到有文資保存等等但是工程就是在中央督導之下去延宕了所以我們才會有變更計畫那變更計畫出來了以後呢我們現在有一個變更計畫的預算還躺在行政院啊"},{"start":350.834,"end":365.388,"text":"所以現在是預算沒有下來 地方當然就不能動嘛所以這個大概769億的預算始終沒有核定我是在想 這也是屬於我們現在最大的困難就在這個地方是不是主委可以跟行政院這邊趕快催促一下我們這個核定計畫可以趕快核下來給我們 可以嗎"},{"start":369.846,"end":382.022,"text":"行政院正在審核當中因為相關全國的軌道建設經費非常龐大那有些這個根據今年度的根據這個"},{"start":385.046,"end":398.342,"text":"財政收支方法的編列有牽涉到未來的計畫型補助跟一般型補助的比例所以行政院向來就是很慎重在調解當中那我們會盡速來完成這個審議"},{"start":399.864,"end":416.572,"text":"您剛剛說我們要解決幫忙各機關去解決困難就是要知道他困難在哪裡您說的其實本席不認同啦我想上一次院長在跟我提到財化法的時候我當場也有跟他講其實這個跟財化法並沒有很大的關係為什麼我要這樣子講第一個呢過去財化法還沒有開始的時候其實進度就是嚴重延宕那個延宕才產生了變更計畫當中多出來的預算這是第一個第二個我們都知道這個"},{"start":427.838,"end":454.054,"text":"鐵道的這個工程是歸中央來這個掌管喔那本來就是應該中央來協助地方嘛那再來呢我們財化法這件事情講到我都講嘴破不想再講了財化法這個東西不管是以前賴清德在做這個地方首長的時候或者是現在大家都知道要擬平地方跟中央財政的一個缺口或讓它更平衡所以這個財化法從以前到現在民進黨也好國民黨也好大家都認為是要修的所以不要把工程的延宕又講到財化法再來"},{"start":455.655,"end":461.462,"text":"再來我再告訴你一個問題 再來我再告訴你一個問題再來我再告訴你一個問題 你是要講還是要聽啊沒有修成這樣 你不用聽喔不是啊 我們在質詢 你不要聽怎麼知道我要問什麼問題啊那你現在要聽還是要講 大家不要用這種方式來打詢好不好這種方式打詢不好啦 我們要把問題聽清楚嘛"},{"start":477.796,"end":492.87,"text":"你認為是才化法 但是這個問題呢院長提出來的時候 我有跟他溝通他也沒有再這麼堅持那再來呢 我剛剛提到鐵路 軌道的這個建設尤其是我們鐵路地下化是中央需辦事項那你知道嗎 你剛剛講到才化法那我們就來講嘛"},{"start":494.091,"end":520.731,"text":"我們現在那個萬大樹林線二期喔然後再來高雄小港陵園線它的追加經費的這個變更計畫也過啦不但過了 中央還分它的比例還更多那這是怎麼樣 這是因為看黨派嗎我一直不想這樣子講欸對不對 建設是國家的建設啦誰都有可能來桃園做到鐵路地下化的成果嘛那為什麼我們這個萬大樹林線的二期跟高雄小港陵園線就可以合訂呢"},{"start":522.268,"end":544.202,"text":"這個整個鐵道建設軌道建設全國非常多啦這裡一千例那裡兩千例那裡九百億整個中央整個行政院必須統籌來評估啦那至於台灣鐵路地下化沒有什麼黨派他從過去就提出來嘛鄭文燦當八年台灣市長努力爭取調高了很多這個相關的預算這個都是歷史"},{"start":544.702,"end":548.531,"text":"所以行政院不會特別考量現在誰當市長或者是當市長所以我只是說錢的問題那行政院在審議當中"},{"start":554.264,"end":580.834,"text":"那跟過去誰提出來財化法要修沒有相關是嘛那財化法是你剛剛提的嘛現在你又說沒有相關我要講啦這個是鄭文燦市長當時啊也上來跟國發會很認真的去爭取希望中央的比例能夠負擔更多一點嘛所以我們也很謝謝鄭文燦市長啊所以沒有再分藍綠嘛但現在的問題就在於既然其他我們有重大的公共工程尤其是交通工程我們在變更計畫跟經費的增加上面我們都有核定"},{"start":581.594,"end":602.624,"text":"主委我們這個鐵路地下化這個最佳預算已經提出來八個月了八個月了那到底是什麼情況你也幫我們關心一下嘛站在你的立場你幫我們關心一下可不可以這個我們會了解啦只是我跟你報告就是說全國的軌道件非常多那有的修正計畫一再修正也有審議相當久的桃園並不是特例啦"},{"start":602.824,"end":614.771,"text":"哪一個比桃園8個月更久 你告訴我哪一個你在這邊都提出來說有更久的 表示你知道啊那如果你不知道就是在這邊亂說一通是不是 這哪一個嘛哪一項計畫比我們更久 你告訴我哪一項計畫呢"},{"start":618.304,"end":642.982,"text":"怎麼可以這樣 你根本都不知道 你就在這邊搪塞全國重大預算 修正的不是 主委 應該這樣講嘛你自己跟我說 其實喔這個五個月的預算 八個月不算久 有很多比我們更久那你胸有成竹的講出來 現在在備詢 你就應該要告訴我是哪一個更久 如果這是一個常態 那我們吞下來它如果不是一個常態 為什麼桃園要等待特別久呢你知道這種交通黑暗期 對我們桃園那真的是 我們所有的市民苦不堪言啊"},{"start":644.875,"end":657.344,"text":"所以哪一個呢 哪一個計畫比我們更久 你告訴我我會去了解再跟委員報告什麼時候什麼時候可以跟我回覆我們全國來這個整個調整 來整個來審全國現在才下去了解 然後你跟我講有"},{"start":658.496,"end":680.684,"text":"我們會提供給你啦到底有還是沒有嘛我們去查所以你不知道你剛剛還告訴我說其實有比我們更久的主委不可以這樣啦真的不可以這樣我建議把答詢的態度改變一下有就是有 沒有就是沒有要再查就是要再查你不可以告訴我說你桃園八個月不算久核定還沒下來也不算什麼你不可以這樣子啦金費不算少啦所以不像說一般工程能夠立即的核定"},{"start":686.826,"end":690.748,"text":"所以行政院 我一直在注意桃園鐵路地下化的工作我們一再同意修正計劃"},{"start":704.175,"end":722.261,"text":"那如果您這也同意而且一再的修正 一再的增加沒有 修正已經最後計畫送出去了已經送出去了那時就是在行政院這麼久了沒有再修正過了所以呢 您剛剛也說您同意來協助那就拜託您是不是可以跟院長講一下到底問題在哪裡要不然趕快核定給我們 好嗎好好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:23.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:24.709000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:27.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:27.874000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:28.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:30.919000+08:00","text":"萬美玲委員質詢完，我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:30.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:30.939000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:33.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:33.750000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:36.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:45.659000+08:00","text":"根據花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別條例，我們很清楚知道主管機關是行政院公共工程委員會，就是您這裡。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:45.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:54.005000+08:00","text":"本席也看到在工程會業報當中的施政成果跟重點，第一點你就寫到「統籌災後復建重建，深入災區強化協調」，對嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:54.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:29:57.972000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:29:57.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:12.975000+08:00","text":"從主委剛剛的報告當中，我也聽到馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建中央協調會報是由陳主委擔任執行秘書，每個月都會定期召開協調會報來統合跨部會的資源，協力推動災後災區重建的工作。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:13.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:26.999000+08:00","text":"而且你也說到工程會已經依馬太鞍重建條例第十一條規定建置重建的專區，因為大家都很關心，確保民眾可以即時獲取正確、完整的資訊。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:27.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:33.304000+08:00","text":"我是不是請主委看一下公開的內容，這個就是專區嗎？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:33.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:35.947000+08:00","text":"這個是專區的內容嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:35.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:37.448000+08:00","text":"我是不是請負責的主管來說明？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:38.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:39.470000+08:00","text":"主委先回答一下，沒有錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:40.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:42.072000+08:00","text":"應該是啦，我從你的官網上拉下來的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:44.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:30:48.444000+08:00","text":"就這一個部分，因為這是從你們官網上取得的，沒有疑義啦，所以你也不要那麼緊張。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:30:48.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:03.902000+08:00","text":"我們就來看一下，你看現在在光復堤防一標、二標、三標的部分大概都完成了，但是在導流堤保護工的部分，實際進度其實只有36%、7%，但你預定要在4月18號完工，可能嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:03.902000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:07.688000+08:00","text":"我請他們說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:07.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:13.135000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個是水利署那時候資料填錯，我們同仁有發現，已經請水利署更新。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:13.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:14.657000+08:00","text":"水利署資料給錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:14.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:15.758000+08:00","text":"好，主委……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:16.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:18.462000+08:00","text":"他們登記錯誤，所以我們同仁發現後……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:18.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:22.982000+08:00","text":"不好意思，這個是你們的專區，這是你們的官網專區耶，賴到水利署去，這樣對嗎？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:23.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:23.682000+08:00","text":"業務是水利署在執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:23.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:27.244000+08:00","text":"業務當然是水利署在執行，所以應該這麼講，你要負責協調，然後配合督導、考核等等，可是在你官網上面的資料嚴重錯誤，按照你講的嚴重錯誤。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:27.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:51.120000+08:00","text":"我們看到你所提的水利署，汛期就要來了，如果按照你剛剛所說的進度還這麼落後，甚至於下游才7%，這是很可怕的事情耶！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:52.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:56.225000+08:00","text":"其實本席是去問了水利署進度怎麼會這樣？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:56.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:31:58.367000+08:00","text":"水利署才說：「沒有啊，我們的進度很好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:31:58.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:32:23.945000+08:00","text":"」再來，我們看到導流堤的進度，現在在你們自己官網上馬太鞍溪的進度寫到上游是36.2%，下游是7.78%，然後水利署給我們的資料其實上游已經完成了85%，下游是72%。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:32:24.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:32:25.466000+08:00","text":"水利署也告訴我們。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:32:25.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:32:27.747000+08:00","text":"是這樣子跟你們回報的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:32:28.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:32:28.628000+08:00","text":"所以現在你們資料弄錯，在這裡答詢還要賴給水利署，怎麼對？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:32:33.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:32:42.667000+08:00","text":"整個水利工程在第一、二、三標的堤防，就是南邊主要的高規格堤防，我們會如期來完成。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:32:42.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:32:56.550000+08:00","text":"主委，我跟您報告，我們發現的這個地方，我們是去跟水利署詢問才發現水利署很認真在做，工程的進度現在也如期，但是我覺得既然工程會是協調、審核的機關，在你們官網上面的數字怎麼可以這麼隨便啊？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:01.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:02.511000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個可能要請同仁再加強，要用心一點啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:02.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:02.672000+08:00","text":"好，這個我們來改進。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:02.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:02.852000+08:00","text":"這是弄錯了，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:02.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:03.132000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:03.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:05.094000+08:00","text":"至少要知道現在有沒有錯，以及錯在哪裡啊，如果本席提出這樣的數據，你都還不知道，這就更可怕了一點！","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:05.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:05.815000+08:00","text":"正確的已經在官網上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:05.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:07.016000+08:00","text":"主委，你知道正確的怎麼會在官網上嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:07.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:07.396000+08:00","text":"你們是今天早上才改的！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:28.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:33.220000+08:00","text":"你今天早上才改的，也就是官網昨天的進度都還7%，今天就可以來到72%！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:34.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:35.641000+08:00","text":"是不是弄錯了？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:35.641000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:36.821000+08:00","text":"所以我請業務主管來跟你說明，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:36.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:38.882000+08:00","text":"不用說明了，這很清楚就是弄錯了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:40.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:51.008000+08:00","text":"主委，如果有弄錯，官網上面的東西其實很重要，我覺得從這個小地方也可以看得出來其實大家嚴謹度、謹慎度不夠，所以我希望主委能夠督導一下，更用心一點，可以嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:51.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:33:51.069000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:33:52.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:00.852000+08:00","text":"好，接下來一樣，本席問了非常多次，在總質詢的時候也跟院長交換過意見，關於我們桃園鐵路地下化。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:01.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:13.755000+08:00","text":"主委，你自己剛剛在報告最後也有提到工程會始終致力於協助各機關解決在公共工程推動過程中遇到的困難跟障礙，你也特別提到這個部分，確保公共工程可以順利進行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:14.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:19.517000+08:00","text":"但是主委，你有掌握我們桃園鐵路地下化目前遇到的困難跟障礙嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:22.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:33.551000+08:00","text":"桃園鐵路地下化進度落後是因為過去有些改善，跟原計畫比有一些更動、有些修正計畫，所以……","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:33.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:36.334000+08:00","text":"主委知道為什麼有這些更動嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:36.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:37.335000+08:00","text":"這個是地方提出來的。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:38.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:38.637000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:38.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:44.100000+08:00","text":"主委，我覺得你既然要督導這些公共工程，就要很了解到底發生什麼事情嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:45.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:47.002000+08:00","text":"當然是地方提出來，為什麼會提出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:47.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:34:48.463000+08:00","text":"因為中央的工程延宕了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:34:49.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:00.810000+08:00","text":"這個發包的工程是在中央，我們過去有各種問題，不管是缺工缺料、不管是疫情、不管是有文資保存等等，但是工程就是在中央督導之下延宕了，所以我們才會有變更計畫。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:00.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:10.016000+08:00","text":"但是變更計畫出來了以後，現在有一個變更計畫的預算還躺在行政院，所以現在是預算沒有下來，地方當然就不能動。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:11.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:22.388000+08:00","text":"大概769億的預算始終沒有核定，我想我們現在最大的困難就在這個地方，主委是不是可以跟行政院催促一下，讓核定計畫趕快核下來給我們，可以嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:26.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:30.611000+08:00","text":"行政院正在審核當中，因為相關……","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:30.611000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:31.611000+08:00","text":"8個月了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:30.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:33.214000+08:00","text":"因為全國軌道建設經費非常龐大……當然。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:34.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:35:55.342000+08:00","text":"有些根據今年度的……根據財政收支劃分法的編列，有牽涉到未來計畫型補助跟一般型補助的比例，所以行政院向來很慎重，並且在調解當中，我們會儘速來完成審議。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:35:56.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:04.007000+08:00","text":"主委，您剛剛說我們要幫忙各機關去解決困難，就是要知道他困難在哪裡，您說的其實本席不認同啦！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:05.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:10.711000+08:00","text":"上一次院長跟我提到財劃法的時候，我當場也有跟他講，其實這個跟財劃法並沒有很大的關係。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:10.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:11.031000+08:00","text":"為什麼要這樣子講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:11.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:12.872000+08:00","text":"第一個，過去財劃法還沒有修正的時候，其實進度就是嚴重延宕，因為延宕才產生了變更計畫當中多出來的預算，這是第一個。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:12.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:29.961000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們都知道鐵道的工程是歸中央來掌管，本來中央就應該來協助地方嘛！","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:30.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:51.014000+08:00","text":"再來，財劃法這件事情講到我都嘴破不想再講了，財劃法這個東西，不管是以前賴清德在做地方首長的時候或者是現在，大家都知道要弭平地方跟中央財政的缺口會讓它更平衡，所以從以前到現在，民進黨也好、國民黨也好，大家都認為財劃法是要修的，所以不要把工程的延宕又講到財劃法。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:51.014000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:54.537000+08:00","text":"但是沒有修成這樣子的，過去民進黨的主張還有賴總統的主張，沒有修成這樣子的啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:54.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:55.538000+08:00","text":"再來，我再告訴你一個問題……你是要講還是要聽啦？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:55.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:56.159000+08:00","text":"沒有修成這樣子的啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:56.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:56.319000+08:00","text":"你不用聽喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:56.319000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:57.319000+08:00","text":"我是據實回答嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:56.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:57.080000+08:00","text":"不是，我們在質詢，你不要聽怎麼會知道我要問什麼問題啊？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:57.080000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:58.080000+08:00","text":"我有在聽，我也適時回答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:57.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:57.641000+08:00","text":"那你現在要聽還是要講？好，請……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:57.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:58.161000+08:00","text":"大家不要用這種方式來答詢，好不好？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:36:58.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:36:58.442000+08:00","text":"用這種方式答詢不好啦，我們要把問題聽清楚嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:14.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:19.580000+08:00","text":"你認為是財劃法，但是這個問題院長提出來的時候，我有跟他溝通，他也沒有再這麼堅持。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:20.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:27.968000+08:00","text":"再來，我剛剛提到鐵路軌道的建設，尤其是鐵路地下化是中央須辦事項。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:28.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:28.669000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:28.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:45.602000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講到財劃法，我們就來講現在萬大樹林線二期與高雄小港林園線，他們追加經費的變更計畫也過了，不但過了，中央分攤的比例還更多，這是怎麼樣，是因為看黨派嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:45.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:47.603000+08:00","text":"我一直不想這樣子講，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:47.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:52.327000+08:00","text":"建設是國家的建設，誰都有可能來桃園享受到鐵路地下化的成果嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:53.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:37:57.711000+08:00","text":"為什麼萬大樹林線二期跟高雄小港線林園線就可以核定呢？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:37:59.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:08.494000+08:00","text":"整個鐵道建設、軌道建設全國非常多啦，這裡1,000億，那裡2,000億、900億，整個中央、行政院必須統籌來評估啦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:09.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:24.168000+08:00","text":"至於桃園鐵路地下化也沒有什麼黨派，這是從過去就提出來的，鄭文燦當8年桃園市長努力爭取調高了很多相關的預算，這個都是歷史，所以行政院不會特別考量現在誰當市長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:24.168000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:25.168000+08:00","text":"主委，所以您剛剛講……","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:24.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:35.366000+08:00","text":"我只是說錢的問題，行政院在審議當中，跟過去誰提出來財劃法要修沒有相關。是嘛！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:35.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:38.167000+08:00","text":"財劃法是你剛剛提的嘛，現在你又說沒有相關！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:38.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:38:48.590000+08:00","text":"我要講這個是鄭文燦市長當時也上來跟國發會很認真的去爭取，希望中央負擔的比例能夠更多一點嘛，所以我們也很謝謝鄭文燦市長，沒有在分藍綠嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:38:49.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:08.579000+08:00","text":"但現在的問題就在於，既然我們有其他重大的公共工程，尤其是交通工程，我們在變更計畫跟經費的增加上面都有核定，主委，我們鐵路地下化追加預算已經提出來8個月了、8個月了，到底是什麼情況，你也幫我們關心一下，站在你的立場幫我們關心一下，可不可以？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:09.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:19.604000+08:00","text":"這個我們會了解啦，我只是跟你報告，全國的軌道建設非常多，有的修正計畫一再修正，也有審議相當久的，桃園並不是特例啦！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:19.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:21.645000+08:00","text":"哪一個比桃園8個月更久，你告訴我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:21.645000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:22.645000+08:00","text":"我回去看、我回去看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:22.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:23.846000+08:00","text":"哪一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:23.846000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:24.846000+08:00","text":"我回去看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:23.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:28.449000+08:00","text":"你都提出來說有更久的，表示你知道啊，如果你不知道，就是在這邊亂說一通，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:28.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:29.309000+08:00","text":"是哪一個嘛？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:29.309000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:30.309000+08:00","text":"我不會亂說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:30.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:31.450000+08:00","text":"哪一項計畫比我們更久，你告訴我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:31.450000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:32.450000+08:00","text":"我不會亂說啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:31.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:31.751000+08:00","text":"哪一項計畫呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:31.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:35.304000+08:00","text":"我們回去查，全國的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:35.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:37.186000+08:00","text":"怎麼可以這樣，你根本都不知道就在這邊搪塞。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:37.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:39.848000+08:00","text":"全國重大預算修正的很多。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:40.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:50.355000+08:00","text":"不是，主委，應該這樣講，你自己跟我說其實軌道預算8個月不算久，有很多比我們更久，你胸有成竹的講出來，現在在備詢就應該要告訴我是哪一個更久？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:50.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:39:55.438000+08:00","text":"如果這是一個常態，那我們吞下來；如果不是一個常態，為什麼桃園要等待特別久呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:39:55.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:03.536000+08:00","text":"你知道這種交通黑暗期對我們桃園，那真的是……我們所有的市民苦不堪言，所以哪一個計畫比我們更久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:03.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:03.896000+08:00","text":"你告訴我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:04.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:05.718000+08:00","text":"我們會去了解，再跟委員報告。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:06.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:06.498000+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:08.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:09.060000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以跟我回復？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:09.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:12.262000+08:00","text":"全國來整個調整、來整個來審……","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:12.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:14.324000+08:00","text":"全國現在才下去了解，然後你跟我講有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:15.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:16.396000+08:00","text":"我們會提供給你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:17.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:17.897000+08:00","text":"到底有還是沒有嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:18.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:18.677000+08:00","text":"我們去查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:19.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:21.818000+08:00","text":"所以你不知道，你剛剛還告訴我說其實有比我們更久的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:21.818000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:22.818000+08:00","text":"就是這個八個月……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:22.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:35.563000+08:00","text":"主委，不可以這樣，真的不可以這樣，我建議把答詢的態度改變一下，有就是有，沒有就是沒有，要再查就是要再查，你不可以告訴我說：桃園八個月不算久，核定也還沒下來，也不算什麼。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:35.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:35.883000+08:00","text":"你不可以這樣子，我希望答詢的態度……","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:36.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:44.286000+08:00","text":"這個經費不算少，所以不像一般工程能夠立即核定，所以行政院充分……","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:44.286000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:45.286000+08:00","text":"我們沒有要立即核定，八個月了，我們沒有要立即核定，我們也是覺得應該慢慢審、慢慢談，但是八個月了，所以主委，你願意為我們桃園鐵路地下化向行政院發聲一下嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:40:44.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:40:47.748000+08:00","text":"我一直在注意桃園鐵路地下化的工作，我們一再同意修正計畫。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:01.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:02.075000+08:00","text":"如果你這裡也同意……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:02.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:05.056000+08:00","text":"而且一再的修正、一再的增加。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:05.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:19.221000+08:00","text":"沒有，修正的最後計畫已經送出去了，就是在行政院這麼久了，沒有再修正過了，所以您剛剛也說您同意來協助，那就拜託您，是不是可以跟院長講一下，到底問題在哪裡，要不然趕快核定給我們，好嗎？好。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:19.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:19.261000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:19.761000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:25.189571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝萬美玲委員的質詢，我們現在休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:25.489571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:26.632429+08:00","text":"休息（10時41分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:26.932429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:28.646714+08:00","text":"繼續開會（10時51分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:28.946714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:30.946714+08:00","text":"好，我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:41:31.246714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:41:35.246714+08:00","text":"接著有請邱若華委員來質詢，謝謝。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}