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主委早 主委首先還是要和您討論和確認我們國家的基礎建設所需要的基礎關鍵資材剛剛有很多委員 包括徐副會委員也有提到也就是濾清雖然看起來只是一般的材料 可是也是關乎到國人的日常生活道路維護"},{"start":35.043,"end":49.487,"text":"那我們現在的情況是台灣正面臨國際原物料的波動還有國內產能供給調整的雙重佳績所以想要先請問主委那這樣子的雙重因素兩個因素加在一起會不會影響接下來的公共工程的正常執行呢這個"},{"start":52.389,"end":79.027,"text":"因為是戰爭嘛所以引起的原油進來台灣受限所以導致柏油減產那濾清就少所以公共工程委內也發函那麼也發新聞稿像這樣的因素導致你的成本增加那麼雙方就主辦機關跟這個業者可以做物調主委您現在掌握到他漲幅的程度是多少實際漲幅我請這個我們來說明"},{"start":89.486,"end":109.314,"text":"這個是之前的資料啦 是那麼北部漲幅大概14%中部漲幅10%那麼南部漲幅16%東部漲幅13%這個是 應該這個資料你們說到的這些漲幅都是在20%以內那目前它公會 立慶公會它有表示已經上漲35%了嘛"},{"start":111.095,"end":127.868,"text":"那我也有特別看到經濟部說目前的存量可以到五月底如果後續順利的話就是可以延長至六月那行政院也有表示他會優先供應緊急重大的工程那這邊還是要請教主委喔那我們現行的處理方式還是事後才來申請嗎"},{"start":131.059,"end":157.832,"text":"我們先行的制度就是等廠商來申請然後等價格他反映了他的指數反映之後才再來調整這個就是禮約的過禮約的協調啦所以我們也同意說公共工程的方面是要能夠做物調啦我整個量跟委員說明台穗化的紫光是中塑那邊還有四萬五千噸的庫存那"},{"start":159.012,"end":171.647,"text":"所以這個對工程會來說是安全的庫存量嗎對 中碩他也會停止就是國外契約供應商的需求會優先提供國內那台灣中油他會去採購現貨"},{"start":173.869,"end":191.882,"text":"所以根據我得到的資料,這個台塑化它也增加了生產的比例所以目前是沒有問題,柏油的供應是沒有問題的現在主委的說明,不過還是要請問主委一個問題你們有沒有去跨部會然後進行協商機制將公共工程用的瀝青把它列為優先的配收物質瀝青,是公共工程用的瀝青"},{"start":198.439,"end":212.458,"text":"這個就看合約啦所以我們初步了解是沒有問題那我下午也會再召集另外一次協商啦那比較確定各部會還有這個相關供應商那麼對於柏油力清的供應的狀況"},{"start":213.779,"end":241.078,"text":"請主委去做深度的討論那這邊美心也想要請教主委是不是可以建立一個自動觸發的調整機制針對這些高波動像是力清因為我也看到在去年114在114年的時候力清它的關鍵原料像是柏油還有它的燃料有受到國際能源的波動它曾經一度漲幅到20%那它每噸是1.25萬台幣那我這邊想請問你們最新在網站上面公告的價格是多少"},{"start":244.351,"end":265.1,"text":"跟委員報告 那我們濾清混凝土的價格那我們根據查的歷史資料來查的話應該是說一直到今年二月其實價格都差不多那唯一有一個波動是到那個就是我想要問的問題因為你們最新公布的資料到二月二十八為什麼只有到二月二十八號但是三月份的話我們是最近才要公布最近什麼時候才會公布"},{"start":266.92,"end":287.61,"text":"我們大概最近這個禮拜就會這個禮拜就會公佈這個禮拜才會公佈三月那我們觀察到這個波動其實真的就是今年的三月相較於二月以前他的波動就是剛剛主委跟您說明的那幾個幅度確實是在20%那現在剛剛主委也曾經也說明過其實根據經濟部所掌握的這個瀝青油的"},{"start":287.85,"end":315.992,"text":"那沒關係 那我再來請教主委主委您應該說不會影響國內的重大公共建設嗎還有公共工程嗎所以供應量是沒有問題 那麼行政院呢副院長也是每個禮拜召開那麼這些有關的那同時 因為中油公司他也把他產能轉向高他高價值的油品那三月也對例行開市進行管控了那這樣子也會導致地方政府的工程也會連帶送餘下因為我看到平均進場施工的時間拉到二到四週拉長到二到四週"},{"start":317.546,"end":346.492,"text":"就是我們把它簡單來區分了就是關於禮約的問題將來會到工程會來諮詢或者是協商那工程會都同意那麼支持物條那主委您要特別留意喔因為現在目前桃園就已經有工程包商他們表示因為買不到料而要他們就是說先申請暫時停工喔那我們不希望等到時候全國的道路也連帶的受影響因為我跟委員報告就是目前掌握的狀況不會有供應沒有問題啦"},{"start":347.532,"end":350.575,"text":"國際情勢兩個來源,台灣中油跟台塑化,台灣中油也在購買現貨接下來進入汛期,如果很不幸的風災還是颱風,道路鋪面受到影響"},{"start":371.973,"end":382.117,"text":"所以行政院一直在掌控相關的民生物資的價格 包括濾青每個禮拜都會開一次會大型的捷運工程他近年也淪為營造市場的高風險標案甚至是拒絕往來戶 你有沒有意識到這個問題"},{"start":394.304,"end":418.585,"text":"土方呢是土方的這個方案已經30多年了那過去設置土資場然後到土資場之後篩分之後分成有加料去做其他使用或者是廢棄物或者是進行加工但是土資場的量事實上是現實上它是不夠容納那麼多土方的啦"},{"start":419.327,"end":423.125,"text":"土坊也是集中一環嘛所有的土地產把它加起來"},{"start":424.466,"end":452.559,"text":"所有的土方根本量比那個超過很多那些東西到哪裡去了過去只是大家有一個灰色地帶土方是其中一環那我這邊也要跟主委提到那種本席舉例桃園的捷運工程延伸中立段它已經流標四次了今年又重新招標又流標已經總共第五次了那它的底價其實已經就是提高到將近八成可是還是沒有廠商願意投標你們在你們之前也有提到其實流標率是40%沒有錯吧那要怎麼來改善這個問題"},{"start":453.499,"end":479.191,"text":"如果是因為土方的問題那土方的戰志或填海等等那麼內政部一直在努力當中除了內政部努力當中那工程會這邊針對廠商然後他們的意願你們要怎麼來就是協助他們工程會當然會協助內政部那麼就土方的機制土方土方的機制跟去處相關法規那麼我站在"},{"start":480.311,"end":504.592,"text":"監證政委的身份讓某位持續在協調當中其實土方只是其中一個因素那當然就是缺工缺料整大環境的因素下造成就是工程會延宕然後還有流標嗎那這邊也要特別提醒主委那現在工程會的問題你們不是沒有制度而是你們的制度都是還是停留在低波動的時代那什麼時候你們會去正視這個問題就是把現在高波動的風險也納入你們的考量"},{"start":508.257,"end":535.155,"text":"我們兩個方案嘛可以可以同意物條這是我們的主張嘛另外就供期的部分呢也希望說這個機關跟這個業者可以合意那麼也可以這個增加供期這是要解決目前這樣子的一個招標遇到困難的問題好那謝謝主委您的說明那也再請把最新的價格趕緊放在公共工程網的網站上面好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:51:41.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:51:49.137000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:51:49.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:51:50.038000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T10:51:50.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:51:50.739000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:51:59.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:52:00.073000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:52:00.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:52:00.293000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:52:00.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:52:30.467000+08:00","text":"首先還是要和主委討論和確認國家基礎建設所需要的基礎關鍵資材，剛剛有很多委員，包括徐富癸委員也有提到，也就是瀝青，它雖然看起來只是一般的材料，可是也關乎到國人日常生活的道路維護，我們現在的情況是臺灣正面臨國際原物料的波動，還有國內產能供給調整的雙重夾擊，所以想要先請問主委，這樣子的雙重因素加在一起，會不會影響接下來的公共工程的正常執行呢？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:52:33.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:52:54.423000+08:00","text":"因為是戰爭引起原油進來臺灣受限，導致柏油減產、瀝青就少，所以公共工程委員會也發函、也發新聞稿，像這樣的因素導致你的成本增加，雙方就是主辦機關跟業者可以做物調。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:52:54.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:52:56.924000+08:00","text":"主委，您現在掌握到它漲幅的程度是多少？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:53:10.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:53:23.652000+08:00","text":"這個是之前的資料，北部漲幅大概14%、中部漲幅10%、南部漲幅16%、東部漲幅13%，這個資料應該有……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:53:24.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:53:43.844000+08:00","text":"主委，您收到的這些漲幅都是在20%以內，目前瀝青公會表示已經上漲35%了，我也有特別看到經濟部說目前的存量可以到5月底，如果後續順利的話，可以延長至6月，行政院也有表示會優先供應緊急重大的工程。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:53:44.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:53:48.868000+08:00","text":"這邊還是要請教主委，我們現行的處理方式還是採事後才來申請嘛，對不對？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:53:52.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:53:59.122000+08:00","text":"我們現行的制度，就是等廠商來申請，然後等價格指數反映之後再來調整。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:53:59.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:10.208000+08:00","text":"這就是履約的協調，所以我們也同意公共工程方面能夠做物調，不過整個量……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:10.208000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:11.208000+08:00","text":"不過我們剛剛討論的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:11.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:18.211000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，台塑化的子公司中塑那邊還有4萬5,000噸的庫存，中塑……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:20.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:23.577000+08:00","text":"所以這個對工程會來說是安全的庫存量嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:23.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:44.076000+08:00","text":"對，中塑也會停止國外契約供應商的需求，會優先提供國內，台灣中油會去採購現貨，所以根據我得到的資料，台塑化也增加了生產的比例，所以目前柏油的供應是沒有問題。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:44.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:52.542000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委的說明，不過還是要請問主委一個問題，你們有沒有進行跨部會協商機制，將公共工程用的瀝青列為優先的配送物質？瀝青？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:52.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:54:52.862000+08:00","text":"是，公共工程用的瀝青。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:54:59.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:55:13.458000+08:00","text":"這個就看合約，我們初步了解是沒有問題，我下午也會再召集另外一次協商，比較確定各部會還有相關供應商，對於柏油、瀝青供應的狀況。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:55:14.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:55:20.363000+08:00","text":"是，再請主委去做深度的討論，本席也想要請教主委，是不是可以建立一個自動觸發的調整機制？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:55:21.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:55:22.004000+08:00","text":"針對這些高波動，像是瀝青。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:55:22.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:55:42.058000+08:00","text":"因為我也看到在去（114）年的時候，瀝青的關鍵原料像是柏油，還有燃料油受到國際能源的波動，漲幅一度到20%，每噸是1.25萬臺幣，我想請問你們最新在網站上面公告的價格是多少？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T10:55:45.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:55:56.176000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，瀝青混凝土的價格，根據我們去查的歷史資料，應該是說一直到今年2月，其實價格都差不多，唯一有一個波動是到……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:55:56.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:02.118000+08:00","text":"這就是我想要問的問題，因為你們最新公布的資料到2月28日，為什麼只有到2月28日？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:03.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:05.219000+08:00","text":"我們最新公布是到2月份，3月份是最近才要公布，因為這是……","quality":0.435},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:05.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:06.079000+08:00","text":"什麼時候才會公布？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:07.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:10.061000+08:00","text":"我們大概這個禮拜就會公布。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:10.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:11.322000+08:00","text":"這個禮拜才會公布？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:12.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:28.590000+08:00","text":"我們觀察到這個波動，其實真的就是今年3月相較於2月以前，它的波動就是剛剛主委跟您說明的那幾個幅度，確實是在20%，主委也說明過，其實根據經濟部所掌握瀝青油的部分……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:28.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:30.371000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我再來請教主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:30.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:34.294000+08:00","text":"主委，您剛剛說不會影響國內的重大公共建設還有工程嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:34.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:40.739000+08:00","text":"現在供應量是沒有問題，行政院副院長也是每個禮拜召開有關……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:41.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:56:56.992000+08:00","text":"因為中油公司也把它的產能轉向高價值的油品，3月也對瀝青開始進行管控了，這樣也會導致地方政府的工程連帶受影響，因為我看到平均進場施工的時間拉長到二到四週。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:56:58.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:11.369000+08:00","text":"我們把它簡單區分，就是關於履約的問題，將來會到工程會來諮詢或協商，工程會都同意、支持物調……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:12.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:24.331000+08:00","text":"主委，您要特別留意，因為目前桃園就已經有工程包商表示，因為買不到料，他們要先申請暫時停工，我們不希望到時候全國道路也連帶受影響。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:24.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:27.472000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，目前掌握的狀況是柏油供應沒有問題。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:27.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:28.472000+08:00","text":"柏油供應沒有問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:28.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:29.472000+08:00","text":"沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:29.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:30.472000+08:00","text":"完全沒有問題？到6月……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:30.472000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:31.472000+08:00","text":"完全沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:28.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:28.732000+08:00","text":"因為這是要因應國際情勢。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:28.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:30.214000+08:00","text":"就是國際情勢……我剛剛講兩個來源，台灣中油跟台塑化，台灣中油也在購買現貨，本身……","quality":0.559},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:30.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:57:31.575000+08:00","text":"主委，我們還是要以防萬一，因為接下來進入汛期，如果很不幸的，因為風災還是颱風使道路鋪面受到影響，我們不希望到時候柏油是不夠的。","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:57:52.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:58:00.496000+08:00","text":"所以行政院一直在掌控相關民生物資的價格包括瀝青，每個禮拜都會開一次會。是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:58:00.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:58:03.117000+08:00","text":"最後請問您一個問題，大型的捷運工程近年也淪為營造市場的高風險標案，甚至是拒絕往來戶，您有沒有意識到這個問題？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:58:15.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:58:39.565000+08:00","text":"土方的方案已經三十多年了，過去設置土資場，然後到土資場篩分之後，分成有價料去做其他使用或者是廢棄物或者是進行加工，但是土資場現實上是不夠容納那麼多土方的啦！","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:58:40.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:58:42.055000+08:00","text":"土方也是其中一環，尤其是……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:58:42.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:58:49.988000+08:00","text":"把所有的土資場加起來，所有土方的量根本比那個超過很多，那些東西到哪裡去了？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:58:50.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:58:52.489000+08:00","text":"過去只是有一個灰色地帶……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:58:52.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:59:12.198000+08:00","text":"土方是其中一環，我這邊也要跟主委提到，本席舉例：桃園的捷運工程延伸中壢段已經流標4次了，今年重新招標又流標，總共已經第5次了，它的底價其實已經提高到將近八成了，可是還是沒有廠商願意投標，你們之前也有提到其實流標率是40%，沒有錯吧？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:59:12.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:59:13.559000+08:00","text":"要怎麼來改善這個問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:59:14.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:59:22.783000+08:00","text":"如果是因為土方的問題，土方的暫置或填海等等，內政部一直在努力當中。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:59:24.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:59:30.566000+08:00","text":"除了內政部努力當中，工程會這邊針對廠商的意願，你們要怎麼來協助他們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T10:59:30.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T10:59:43.933000+08:00","text":"工程會當然會協助內政部，就土方的機制跟去處的相關法規，我站在兼任政委的身分持續在協調當中。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T10:59:44.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:05.572000+08:00","text":"其實土方只是其中一個因素，當然就是缺工、缺料等大環境因素之下，造成工程延宕還有流標，這邊也要特別提醒主委，現在工程會的問題不是沒有制度，而是你們的制度都還是停留在低波動的時代，什麼時候你們會去正視這個問題，就是把現在高波動的風險納入你們的考量？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:09.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:29.811000+08:00","text":"我們有兩個方案，可以同意物調，這是我們的主張，另外就是工期的部分，也希望機關跟業者可以合意增加工期，這是要解決目前招標遇到困難的問題。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"邱委員若華","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:30.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:35.835000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委的說明，也再請把最新的價格趕緊放在公共工程網的網站上面，謝謝。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:36.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:36.155000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:36.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:39.512143+08:00","text":"謝謝邱若華委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:39.812143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:42.097857+08:00","text":"接著請何欣純委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}