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我們要繼續編預算來採購採購這個"},{"start":154.232,"end":181.502,"text":"絕對不能有這個中國製的一個比例那還有這個整個非紅供應鏈的一個我們對於各部門各行政機關到底有沒有能力去檢視或者是呢他採購了之後要結標在採購的過程裡面到底能不能確認這一台他要買的無人機裡面有沒有紅色供應鏈的零組件這個部分主委你知道嗎"},{"start":183.264,"end":204.864,"text":"無人機當然首先是國防的需求不一定喔我先解釋給你聽因為面對中國一直文攻武嚇所以我們要短時間之內能夠國防有足夠能夠來防衛的無人機這個無人機我們希望能夠國內把它變成一種產業"},{"start":207.666,"end":214.931,"text":"軍用的是一種我今天講的2020我那時候提出來是我要告訴你喔內政部有無人機做什麼防災"},{"start":217.679,"end":243.897,"text":"或者是農業部有無人機 做什麼巡山 森林守護然後消防署也有無人機也是在做救護 或者是在災難發生的時候他們可以去使用無人機當為他們的輔助工具在那個當下不是只有軍用的無人機各部會裡面都有使用無人機的人以及採購無人機這個採購過去並沒有"},{"start":248.579,"end":271.125,"text":"並沒有規範過去都沒有規範所以在2020我才會告訴你各部會裡面有超過七成以上的使用的無人機是中國製那在那之後2020之後我才會跟人說為了防止資安風險因為每一台中國製的無人機裡面它的系統是不是有回報的後門"},{"start":272.725,"end":286.25,"text":"資訊是不是被直接嫁接到中國去這個都是資安的風險 也是我們國安的風險所以蘇院長在當年有承諾要競速的盤點跟汰換那接著我當然知道 來"},{"start":287.458,"end":309.128,"text":"下一頁我們公務機關要排除資安風險的時候政府採購全面禁用中國貨在前一任工程會主委吳哲成吳主委的時候曾經也有明確的態度表示公務機關呢頻頻報違規使用中國貨尤其地方政府地方政府也有在使用無人機"},{"start":310.749,"end":314.673,"text":"地方政府的無人機採購到底有沒有符合我們現在的一個原則全面禁用中國貨那個時候吳主委說不聽就要出分了啦那是在2022我從2020指出這件事情之後要政府來重視關注2022我們地方政府還有一些行政單位"},{"start":332.97,"end":336.252,"text":"持續違規在使用中國貨所以才會讓這個當時候的吳主委落下重話再講不聽就處分那我們的包括不是只有地方政府包括各大學包括他們在使用研究也好"},{"start":349.142,"end":371.907,"text":"或者是呢 他們的一個創新大學有沒有在使用無人機 很多 很多領域都在使用那我們還要求教育部跟大學端說要重研認定禁用入場的資訊產品這個當然是逐步的來禁用 逐步的來重研那我現在問的是 我們公共工程委員會"},{"start":373.587,"end":400.507,"text":"在政府採購你們是主管機關到底對於所謂的非紅供應鏈裡面無人載具無人機的整機的一個系統到底有沒有中國組件的piece在裡面那如何協助各地的公務機關的公務人員在採購的過程當中可以有一個規範協助跟認定我現在要問的主委是這一件事好 那我跟委員說明"},{"start":401.628,"end":416.106,"text":"從今年開始三年大概有一個351到400億各部會才是大量採購無人機過去是不多因為大陸的大疆市佔率太高了不只台灣其他國家也都是有大疆的"},{"start":416.707,"end":431.66,"text":"那為了因應未來三年這個各部會採購的無人機那工程會訂立一個無人機的採購指引跟共同供應契約那老師請我們負責的副主委或主任來講一下好 副主委來 下一頁我知道副主委要跟我講因為我有看到了因為飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":433.482,"end":460.345,"text":"我們政府的大目標政策所以工程會終於從2020我開始在講這件事的時候到現在2026我們提出了一個採購指引那我只想問第一個這個採購指引今年的2月24號出來的那採購指引實施到現在有沒有碰到問題再來我們未來如何落實各部會的稽查 稽核"},{"start":461.443,"end":476.512,"text":"首先跟委員報告就是說我們的指引出來以後原則上面我們是採用共約啦那我們是這一次是盤點所有中央部會地方政府有包括嗎大學端有包括嗎"},{"start":476.872,"end":500.817,"text":"他會透過譬如說教育部他就透過他們去盤點那內政部可能他也把地方政府的需求盤點進來那我們今年是委託台灣銀行做共約的採購所以在整個招標跟審標禮約將來驗收等等會有一套標準的作業就是針對委員剛剛關心的這個標準的作業什麼時候出來"},{"start":502.085,"end":528.525,"text":"現在已經有指引了就是靠這個指引問題是台穎的這個共同採購契約裡面他們呢對於這一套指引熟嗎他們可以認定在這個整機裡面的飛鴻供應鏈是不是他的零組件來自飛鴻供應鏈我們有派人員在整個那個採購的作業裡面去派多少人一個我們主任秘書就派一個而已我們是最熟悉"},{"start":529.878,"end":552.326,"text":"還有工作小組還有採購評選委會他有很多個不同的機制我們都有派人在裡面我們這邊這是特別啊我必須要問說那我還在核心的一句話啦那他們懂無人機嗎無人機裡面大大小小還有系統零組件的所謂的非紅供應鏈的定義跟認定標準又是什麼有那個原則上面整機不行嘛"},{"start":553.406,"end":577.697,"text":"那有去盤點說目前台灣自己比較欠缺的是哪一些項目那只有針對那一些被動的元件那目前盤點出來大概就是光學鏡、磁鐵等等的這個我們現在做不到,所以我們要求到明年開始要全面的那在沒有辦法做到這個以前,那其他的都不行"},{"start":578.607,"end":594.139,"text":"我必須要告訴主委副主委跟各位我們今天問這一題是因為第一個我們禁用中國貨那我們也不希望有資安疑慮的無人載具進入我們的政府體系這是國安問題"},{"start":597.864,"end":620.783,"text":"最終我們要怎麼替代替代就是行政院宣布這個無人機的產業整個供應鏈希望在台灣能夠自給自足可以自己供應那這個供應鏈呢對我們台中來講非常重要而且我們有完整的供應鏈我也非常希望我們台中的這個無人機的完整供應鏈它所生產出來的無人機可以"},{"start":621.984,"end":630.966,"text":"為政府所採購那在這個愛用國貨而且是在國防安全自主的一個情況之下我們希望把無人機產業能夠從外銷轉內銷啦我們希望我們自己的產業能夠獲得支持那政府的採購可以在地採購讓台中的傳統產業可以轉型升級我們有自信我們可以但是在這個之前"},{"start":649.93,"end":666.486,"text":"我就必須要請公共工程委員會在你的採購作業指引裡面那對於呢現在的採購的一個這個非紅供應鏈的認定那認定如果要重演也要重演重演之下我們如何引導政府各單位來做一個"},{"start":669.485,"end":694.294,"text":"好的採購啦合法合規而且呢是能夠在地自主的採購啦報告委員除了民間這些我們的國防需求量非常大在任性預算裡面有2000億我們希望在國內來來生產但國內目前還沒有那個量跟相關的技術還不夠的狀況之下會有國外的廠商來合作我們可以是啊是啊"},{"start":694.614,"end":714.012,"text":"除了供應國內國防需求所以當然不能有紅色我們除了供應自己國內的需求之外我成功了之後我還可以外銷到其他國家去啊所以這個就是賴總統講的民主供應鏈那既然是民主供應鏈就不能有大疆的產品就不能有大陸的所以我們要扶持自己的我們國家的品牌的廠商嘛比如說民用的"},{"start":718.436,"end":745.717,"text":"然後國防需求了 將來我們變成一個產業要外銷的所以一定要培養自製的能力那這個自製能力就是要擺脫所有的中國製的產品 目的是這樣子所以我就希望公共工程委員會 因為你是政府採購的主管機關的最上位 那我們的未來在這一個飛泳供應鏈的一個這個建立之下 如何落實各部會的稽查 我最後一頁我為什麼會講到這個你現在今年才訂這個"},{"start":749.14,"end":774.076,"text":"這個指引那在訂指引之前過去採購的無人機如何集合這個請給我一個書面報告因為時間到了第二個那現在作業指引訂定了之後那我們的採購集合的能量所以我才問說你們有多少人啊對不對那你們集合的過程又是如何啊那發現問題又該如何解決那如何管控治安的風險這個再拜託這個很重要好不好"},{"start":777.418,"end":779.793,"text":"再給我一個書面的一個完整的一個答覆謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:50.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:53.470000+08:00","text":"（11時）謝謝主席，我們請陳金德主任委員。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T11:00:53.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:00:53.530000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:01:00.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:01:00.569000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:01:00.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:01:00.609000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:01:00.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:01:02.170000+08:00","text":"我今天想談談無人機，我們中央行政院已經宣布要建立無人機的非紅供應鏈，提出三大政策、五大策略，共同推動無人機的國家隊，為什麼我特別關注這一題？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:01:19.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:01:30.106000+08:00","text":"因為無人機零組件非常完整的供應鏈在臺中，臺中的這個產業把無人機國家隊的政策目標當作是產業能夠轉型升級的重要契機。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:01:30.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:02:01.824000+08:00","text":"在五大策略中最重要的是所謂的產業聚落生態系、制定使用規範及推動資安檢測，共同來完成2027年無人機要全部非紅供應鏈的目標，這個我想主委知道。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:02:02.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:02:06.928000+08:00","text":"為什麼我要特別要在公共工程委員會的業務報告來談這一題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:02:11.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:03:02.205000+08:00","text":"事實上我在2020年是最早提出的，在2020年之前，各行政單位的無人機有七成以上是中國製的，那一年我在總質詢的時候跟蘇院長提到這一件事，蘇院長才開始盤點我們各個機關到底有多少中國製的無人載具、無人機；第二個，蘇院長當時也承諾，從公務機關自身做起，要儘速的來編列預算，該淘汰要淘汰，並責成副院長來盤點。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:03:02.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:03:47.502000+08:00","text":"目前我不知道各部會採購中國製無人機的比例，第一、我們原則已經禁用，第二、禁用了之後，我們要繼續編預算來採購，絕對不能有中國製的，還有各行政機關在採購的過程中，到底有沒有能力去檢視、確認他要買的無人機有沒有紅色供應鏈的零組件，這個部分主委，你知道嗎？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:03:49.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:03:52.187000+08:00","text":"無人機當然首先是國防的需求啦。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:03:53.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:03:53.969000+08:00","text":"不一定喔、不一定喔。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:03:54.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:04:10.864000+08:00","text":"不是，我先解釋給你聽，就是因為面對中國一直文攻武嚇，所以我們希望在短時間之內國防能夠有足夠防衛的無人機，那這個無人機，我們希望國內能夠把它變成一種產業……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:04:13.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:04:20.911000+08:00","text":"主委，不，軍用的是一種，我今天講的是我2020年那時候提出來的，我要告訴你，內政部有無人機做什麼？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:04:20.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:04:27.261000+08:00","text":"防災；或者是農業部有無人機，做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:04:27.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:04:40.230000+08:00","text":"巡山、森林守護；然後消防署也有無人機、也是在做救護，或者是在災難發生的時候，他們可以使用無人機作為輔助工具。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:04:40.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:04:59.060000+08:00","text":"在那個當下不是只有軍用的無人機，各部會裡面都有使用無人機的人，以及採購無人機，這個採購過去並沒有規範，過去都沒有規範，所以在2020年我才會告訴你……","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:04:59.060000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:05:00.060000+08:00","text":"現在已經完成了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:04:59.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:05:24.527000+08:00","text":"各部會有超過七成以上使用的無人機是中國製的，在2020年之後，我才會跟你說，為了防止資安風險，因為買一臺中國製的無人機，它的系統是不是有回報的後門，資訊是不是直接嫁接到中國去，這個都是資安的風險，也是我們國安的風險。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:05:24.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:05:30.809000+08:00","text":"所以蘇院長在當年有承諾要儘速的盤點跟汰換。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:05:31.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:05:58.831000+08:00","text":"接著我當然知道，我們公務機關要排除資安風險，政府採購全面禁用中國貨，前一任工程會主委吳澤成曾經也明確的表態，公務機關頻頻爆違規使用中國貨，尤其地方政府也有在使用無人機，地方政府的無人機採購到底有沒有符合我們現在的原則，全面禁用中國貨？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:05:58.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:06:20.171000+08:00","text":"那個時候吳主委說，再說不聽就要處分了，那是在2022年，我從2020年指出這一件事情要政府來重視、關注，到2022年我們地方政府還有一些行政單位持續違規在使用中國貨，所以才會讓當時的吳主委撂下重話，再講不聽就處分。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:06:20.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:07:13.478000+08:00","text":"不是只有地方政府，包括各大學，包括研究、創新，在很多領域都在使用無人機，我們還要求教育部跟大學端要從嚴認定，禁用陸產的資訊產品，這個當然是逐步的從嚴認定、逐步的來禁用，我現在要問的是，公共工程委員會是政府採購的主管機關，對於所謂的非紅供應鏈裡面無人載具、無人機整機的系統，到底有沒有中國組件的piece在裡面？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:07:14.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:07:22.885000+08:00","text":"如何協助各地的公務機關、公務人員在採購的過程當中，可以有一個規範認定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:07:23.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:07:25.347000+08:00","text":"我現在要問主委的是這一件事。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:07:25.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:07:52.996000+08:00","text":"我跟委員說明，從今年開始3年大概有350億到400億，各部會才開始大量採購無人機，過去不多，因為大陸的大疆市占率太高了，不只臺灣，其他國家也都是，為了因應未來3年各部會採購無人機，工程會訂了一個無人機的採購指引跟共同供應契約，是不是請我們負責的副主委或主秘來說明？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:07:54.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:08:22.582000+08:00","text":"我知道副主委要跟我講，我有看到了，因為非紅供應鏈是我們政府的大目標政策，所以工程會終於從2020年我開始講這一件事的時候，到現在2026年提出了一個採購指引，我只想問，第一個，這個採購指引是今年2月24號出來的，採購指引實施到現在有沒有碰到問題？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:08:22.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:08:26.325000+08:00","text":"再來，我們未來如何落實各部會的稽核？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:08:27.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:08:39.190000+08:00","text":"我首先跟委員報告，我們的指引出來了以後，原則上我們是採用共約，這一次是盤點所有中央部會需要……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:08:39.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:08:41.611000+08:00","text":"地方政府有包括嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:08:41.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:08:42.512000+08:00","text":"大學端有包括嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:08:43.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:08:51.174000+08:00","text":"譬如教育部，他們就透過教育部去盤點，內政部可能也把地方政府的需求盤點進來。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:08:51.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:04.796000+08:00","text":"我們今年是委託臺灣銀行做共約的採購，所以在整個招標、審標、履約、驗收等等會有一套標準的作業，也就是針對委員剛關心的……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:05.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:06.817000+08:00","text":"這個標準的作業什麼時候出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:08.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:09.006000+08:00","text":"現在已經有指引了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:09.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:16.892000+08:00","text":"就是靠這個指引，問題是臺銀的這個共同採購契約裡面，他們對於這一套指引熟嗎？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:16.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:23.396000+08:00","text":"他們可以認定整機的零組件是不是都來自非紅供應鏈？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:23.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:27.540000+08:00","text":"我們有派人員在整個採購的作業裡面去……","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:27.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:28.360000+08:00","text":"派多少人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:30.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:31.362000+08:00","text":"我們主任秘書。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:31.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:32.263000+08:00","text":"就派一個而已？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:32.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:42.680000+08:00","text":"我們是最熟悉的……還有工作小組，還有採購評選委員會，它有很多個不同的機制，我們都有派人在裡面，這是特別……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:43.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:48.162000+08:00","text":"我必須要問核心的一句話，那他們懂無人機嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:48.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:56.265000+08:00","text":"無人機裡面大大小小，還有系統零組件的所謂非紅供應鏈的定義跟認定標準又是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:57.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:09:58.306000+08:00","text":"原則上整機不行嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:09:59.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:10:18.334000+08:00","text":"那有去盤點目前臺灣自己比較欠缺的是哪一些項目，只有針對那一些被動元件，目前盤點出來大概就是光學鏡、磁鐵等等，這個我們現在做不到，所以我們要求到明年開始要全面嘛！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員為祥","start":"2026-04-13T11:10:19.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:10:23.677000+08:00","text":"而在有辦法做到這個以前，原則上其他的都不行。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:10:24.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:10:40.139000+08:00","text":"我必須要告訴主委、副主委跟各位，我們今天問這一題是因為，第一個，我們禁用中國貨，也不希望有資安疑慮的無人載具進入我們的政府體系，這是國安問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:10:43.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:10:45.265000+08:00","text":"最終我們要怎麼替代？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:10:46.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:10:54.153000+08:00","text":"就是行政院宣布，希望無人機產業整個供應鏈在臺灣能夠自給自足，可以自己供應。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:10:54.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:11:09.604000+08:00","text":"這個供應鏈對臺中來講非常重要，而且我們有完整的供應鏈，我也非常希望臺中無人機的完整供應鏈所生產出來的無人機可以為政府所採購。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:11:09.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:11:16.766000+08:00","text":"在愛用國貨，而且是在國防安全自主的情況之下，我們希望無人機產業能夠從外銷轉內銷，希望我們自己的產業能夠獲得支持，政府可以在地採購，讓臺中的傳統產業可以轉型升級，我們有自信我們可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:11:16.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:00.487000+08:00","text":"但是在這之前，我就必須請公共工程委員會在你的採購作業指引裡面，對於現在採購的非紅供應鏈認定要從嚴，在從嚴之下我們如何引導政府各單位做好採購，合法、合規而且是能夠在地自主的採購？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:00.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:20.274000+08:00","text":"報告委員，除了民間這些，我們的國防需求量非常大，在韌性預算裡面有兩千億，我們也希望在國內生產，但在國內目前還沒有那個量跟相關技術還不夠的狀況之下，會有國外廠商來合作。是啊！","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:20.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:23.437000+08:00","text":"除了供應國內國防需求，所以當然不能有紅色的……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:24.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:29.422000+08:00","text":"我們除了供應自己國內的需求之外，我成功了之後還可以外銷到其他國家去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:29.422000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:30.422000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:30.422000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:31.422000+08:00","text":"就這是政府要引導的，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:30.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:37.910000+08:00","text":"所以這個就是賴總統講的民主供應鏈，既然是民主供應鏈，就不能有大疆的產品、就不能有大陸的，所以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:37.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:39.712000+08:00","text":"是，所以我們要扶植自己的、我們國家品牌的廠商。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:39.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:12:55.945000+08:00","text":"所以等於是三個階段，比方民用的，然後是國防需求的，以及將來我們變成一個產業要外銷的，所以一定要培養自製的能力，這個自製能力就是要擺脫所有中國製的產品，目的是這樣子。","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:12:56.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:09.836000+08:00","text":"所以我就希望公共工程委員會，因為你是政府採購的主管機關、最上位，我們未來在非紅供應鏈的建立之下，如何落實各部會的稽查？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:10.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:11.537000+08:00","text":"我為什麼會講到這個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:11.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:24.045000+08:00","text":"你今年才訂這個指引，那在訂指引之前，過去採購的無人機如何稽核，這個請給我一個書面報告，因為時間到了。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:24.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:31.010000+08:00","text":"第二個，現在作業指引訂定了之後，我們採購稽核的能量如何？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:31.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:40.056000+08:00","text":"所以我才問你們是多少人、你們稽核的過程又是如何，而發現問題又該如何解決、如何管控資安風險，這個再拜託、這個很重要，好不好？好。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"何委員欣純","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:43.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:45.793000+08:00","text":"再給我一個書面完整答復，謝謝。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:46.293000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:49.150143+08:00","text":"謝謝何欣純委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T11:13:49.450143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T11:13:52.593000+08:00","text":"接著有請黃健豪召委質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}