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那今天來講勞動部當然是打算引進這印度的移工進來但是因為這個在台灣來講過去這樣子的一個不管是文化或者是宗教信仰或是包括他們生活習慣習性的部分都跟目前我們台灣的許多的一些生活形態是有蠻大的一個不同那我想問一下 那目前在移工工程的缺工狀況"},{"start":163.59,"end":174.964,"text":"那這樣子的引進對於我們台灣的這種公共城的就是勞動力的補充來講是真的有幫助嗎還是說反而實際上的效果不大"},{"start":175.803,"end":196.202,"text":"包委真的是引進來國的移工不是工程會的業務啦所以這個要尊重勞動部他的政策那主委回的保守啊因為缺工問題是事實但是沒有關係因為這個部分當然你才是尊重勞動部他們的立場跟業務啊那我能夠理解但是本席還是在這裡表達"},{"start":196.883,"end":221.823,"text":"那目前來講缺工問題確實嚴重那但是引進的這個移工還是不是跟本勞之間的相對的這個競合關係我覺得還是要去思考那如何能夠刺激誘因讓本勞還能夠投入在公共工程的一個勞動力短缺的部分的一個填補上那有時候如果是直接去開放的這個印度的外勞還移工來這邊台灣來進行"},{"start":223.644,"end":250.869,"text":"那是不是實際上對公共工程的缺工有幫助還是到最後反而衍生出更多的社會問題我覺得其實工程會主委可能也要跟勞動部這邊來表達還其實真的需求跟意見那不能夠直接賴總統或許是美意可是實際上如果照社會的環境跟整體的一個勞動力的市場來講造成更大的衝擊我覺得可能是不是這個移工來的狀況需要再做討論跟檢討"},{"start":253.615,"end":280.848,"text":"那同樣的那缺料的部分那在目前的這個美伊衝突在中東的石油危機卓偉你認為會越演越烈嗎這個也是國安的判斷可能要請教外交部會比較清楚 不行啦卓偉你自己判斷他應該會認為也是越演越烈你有在看政經新聞這方面我們的確是外行卓偉你太客氣了你以前在宜蘭縣都對地方那麼了解"},{"start":281.768,"end":306.369,"text":"那其實那個直接可以預判就是越演越烈啦那在談判破裂之下的話其實這個石油啊包括相關天然氣等等的還有各種的原料其實都是會更加的緊繃啦所以說這個是可以預期啦那我本席還是要在這裡表達因為目前來講的話不管是在濾清那濾清的部分短缺的部分剛才有提到這個目前的存量是都夠了嗎"},{"start":307.717,"end":332.615,"text":"荔青還有一些庫存庫存大概可以用多久我知道中碩那邊有四萬五千噸的庫存然後他們台碩化也在加緊生產那中油除了生產之外他也在採購現貨來補足這個需求那總之這個是沒有辦法因為做柏油原料大部分是來自於中東"},{"start":333.956,"end":356.09,"text":"就算要在中東採購柏油 那也有一些困難那個船隻也有一些困難 目前只是說我們因為台灣的確是資源匱乏 台灣的確什麼都沒有所以這方面是政府包括卓院長他也這個包括副院長也都開專案會議然後希望這些有能力的廠商以供應國內優先"},{"start":357.651,"end":385.92,"text":"那那個剛才所提到的這個濾清的他目前的這個目前的存量那的這個統計是數據是大概是什麼時候來確認的跟這些我大概是上個禮拜上個禮拜那大約目前在現行的這種這個半挖工程的施作上大約幾個月的量還算充足根據經濟部的最初的說法是說到六月啦不過我想如果中碩化調整他的生產"},{"start":386.88,"end":411.882,"text":"程序之後 那麼應該持續供應是沒有問題的所以現在來講是濾清供應不中斷嗎濾清的供應是不中斷的不會 不會有 我們是博友博友的部分這個公司供應給業者的博友是不會中斷的而且他也就發出信函給工會的那在這個部分的話有沒有跟工會或是相關的業者有統計是不是有囤積的狀況"},{"start":417.648,"end":425.054,"text":"我如果是柏油的話就兩家而已而且是公開的資訊這庫存是供應那至於力清工會的部分"},{"start":426.158,"end":446.833,"text":"我們是不是有 我請副主委來回答跟委員報告 我們工程會這邊管的大概是力清混泥土我們不直接去管力清油那力清混泥土的部分當然是有力清工會這邊有來函可是同時我們也都有詢問北中南東各個力清的這些公司去調查這個行情"},{"start":447.774,"end":461.752,"text":"那這個行情大概過去我們調查的時候大概是三月底四月初這個階段不過那個時候大概也從源頭這邊主委跟在行政院這些經濟部或是院長這邊大家副院長其實大家都一直在掌握這個狀況那所以現在"},{"start":465.436,"end":487.628,"text":"接下來大概確定說是供給會大於需求啦其實依照歷史經驗來講生產量供給量其實都會大於這個階段的需求量那價格上漲那是一時可能有一些市場的反應恐慌的反應當情接下來其實公平會也會持續去關心這個價格那因為時間有限那我大致上就補充一下"},{"start":488.268,"end":507.421,"text":"所以說目前來講的話其實原有主要這個能夠用這些例行的這種重有還是在中東啦那像美國俄羅斯的部分尤其是美國部分是沒有辦法去用在這一種的項目上那其實目前看得下國際震驚情勢在中東的戰爭會越演越烈那所以說在經濟部他們是不是了解到這個原料"},{"start":508.301,"end":533.189,"text":"石油是不是能夠真的來台灣的這個部分不能過於樂觀啦不能過於樂觀那同時現在來講是還在一個我們這邊沒戰事的一個狀況那是一般的基本需求還有原料上面的這種基礎建設那坦白講我們要肯定鄭麗文主席的和平之旅那能夠讓兩岸來講目前不交戰火的這種機率下降那不然假如"},{"start":534.309,"end":550.283,"text":"這個整個中東的一個戰爭火藥庫到時候燒到亞太地區的話那其實各種的戰備假如需要的這種存量的這種基礎建設的原物料那都是沒有大家在顧忌的 大家是沒有顧忌的"},{"start":550.803,"end":572.034,"text":"所以說這個部分其實都應該要並如考量我們看到中東的戰事會需要這些原物料那在台灣假如未來亞太地區也發生類似的狀況的時候到底是不是有足夠的原物料來供給那至於中東的石油目前來講也不能夠過於樂觀那所以說原物料的相關的掌控還是有賴工程會這邊持續的跟進謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:07:57.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:07:58.613000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:07:58.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:07:58.973000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:07:58.973000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:08:04.255500+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:08:04.255500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:08:09.538000+08:00","text":"主委早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:08:09.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:08:15.042000+08:00","text":"再次感謝工程會對於南投許多災修的協助，在這裡還是再次表達感謝。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:08:16.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:08:26.731000+08:00","text":"今天有許多議題通通環繞著不管是瀝青，還有包括許多原物料目前面臨的一個制度性風險的問題。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:08:28.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:08:50.289000+08:00","text":"其實目前來講，公共工程也是國家重大的建設發展的火車頭，同樣的，在目前來講，擔心的不管是缺錢、缺人、缺料，我相信在目前全球化的風險，以及包括這次美伊戰爭中東的衝突之下，大家需要做一些提前的預警跟預防。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:08:51.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:09:18.090000+08:00","text":"在這裡的話，除了我們之前講的料的部分，我想請教一下主委，目前賴清德總統他有提到，要引進印度的勞工來臺灣從事相關的工作，在年底的話就要開放1,000位，我想問一下，對於引進印度外勞這個部分，目前公共工程委員會是持什麼樣的立場跟態度？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:09:19.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:09:31.368000+08:00","text":"這個我尊重勞動部的政策，因為不是我們主管的業務，所以工程會沒有特別的意見，就看整個中央的政策或者是勞動部他的政策。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:09:31.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:09:38.690000+08:00","text":"那目前整體在國家重大建設工程或者是一些公共工程的缺工狀況是沒有缺工還是都是順利的？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:09:39.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:09:57.083000+08:00","text":"如果說有個案缺工的狀況，尤其是公共工程的部分，公共工程委員會會協助業者跟勞動部，專案讓移工進來，過去也有前例可循。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:09:58.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:04.668000+08:00","text":"我們的角色就是在公共工程，如果個案有缺工，那我們會去跟勞動部協調。好。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:05.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:25.566000+08:00","text":"今天勞動部當然是打算引進印度的移工進來，但是因為在臺灣來講，過去不管是文化或者是宗教信仰，或是包括他們生活習慣、習性的部分，都跟目前臺灣許多的社會型態有滿大的不同。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:26.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:39.941000+08:00","text":"那我想問一下，目前在公共工程的缺工狀況，這樣子的引進對於我們臺灣公共工程勞動力的補充來講，是真的有幫助嗎？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:39.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:41.943000+08:00","text":"還是說反而實際上的效果不大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:43.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:50.110000+08:00","text":"報告委員，引進哪一國的移工不是工程會的業務，所以這個要尊重勞動部的政策。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:51.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:11:14.571000+08:00","text":"主委你回的保守，因為缺工問題是事實，但是沒有關係，因為這個部分當然你是尊重勞動部他們的立場跟業務，我能夠理解，但是本席還是在這裡表達，目前來講缺工問題確實嚴重，但是引進的移工是不是跟本勞之間有相對的競合關係，我覺得還是要去思考。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:11:15.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:11:57.869000+08:00","text":"如何能夠增加誘因，讓本勞能夠投入在公共工程勞動力短缺的部分，將其填補上，如果直接開放印度的外勞和移工來臺灣，實際上對於公共工程的缺工是不是有幫助，還是到時候反而衍生出更多的社會問題，我覺得其實工程會主委可能也要跟勞動部來表達需求跟意見，不能夠直接……賴總統或許是美意，可是實際上如果照社會的環境跟整體勞動力的市場來講，會造成更大的衝擊，我覺得是不是移工來的狀況需要再做討論跟檢討？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:00.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:11.980000+08:00","text":"那同樣的，缺料的部分，目前的美伊衝突，中東的石油危機主委你認為會愈演愈烈嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:11.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:16.322000+08:00","text":"這個也是國安的判斷，可能要請教外交部會比較清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:16.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:16.623000+08:00","text":"不行啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:17.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:21.485000+08:00","text":"主委，你自己判斷上應該會認為也是愈演愈烈，你有在看政經新聞啊！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:21.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:22.845000+08:00","text":"這方面我們的確是外行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:24.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:27.828000+08:00","text":"主委，你太客氣了，你以前在宜蘭縣對地方那麼了解。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:28.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:42.860000+08:00","text":"其實這個直接可以預判就是愈演愈烈，那在談判破裂之下的話，石油包括相關天然氣等等，還有各種的原料，其實都是會更加的緊繃，所以說這個是可以預期的。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:43.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:53.369000+08:00","text":"那本席還是要在這裡表達，目前來講的話，剛才有提到瀝青短缺的部分，目前的存量是都夠的嗎？","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:54.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:56.618000+08:00","text":"瀝青還有一些庫存，然後……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:57.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:58.760000+08:00","text":"庫存大概可以用多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:59.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:14.071000+08:00","text":"我知道中塑那邊有4萬5,000噸的庫存，然後台塑化也在加緊生產，中油除了生產之外，它也在採購現貨來補足需求。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:15.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:26.920000+08:00","text":"總之，這個是沒有辦法，因為做柏油的原料，大部分還是來自於中東，就算要在中東採購柏油也有一些困難、船隻也有些困難。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:26.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:28.601000+08:00","text":"我知道，荷姆茲海峽沒開通。","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:28.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:32.263000+08:00","text":"因為臺灣的確是資源匱乏、臺灣的確什麼都沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:32.263000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:33.444000+08:00","text":"對，海島型國家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:33.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:43.070000+08:00","text":"所以這方面政府，包括卓院長、包括副院長也都開專案會議，希望這些有能力的廠商以供應國內優先。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:46.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:54.434000+08:00","text":"沒關係，剛才所提到的瀝青，它目前存量的統計數據大概是什麼時候確認的？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:55.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:56.375000+08:00","text":"大概是上個禮拜。","quality":1},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:58.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:04.957000+08:00","text":"目前在工程的施作上，大約幾個月的量還算充足？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:05.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:19.145000+08:00","text":"根據經濟部最初的說法是說到6月，不過我想如果中塑調整它的生產程序之後，應該持續供應是沒有問題的。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:19.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:23.088000+08:00","text":"所以現在來講是瀝青供應不中斷嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:24.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:32.957000+08:00","text":"我們是柏油，供應給業者的柏油是不會中斷的，而且它已經發出信函給工會了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:34.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:38.882000+08:00","text":"在這個部分的話，有沒有跟工會或者相關的業者統計是不是有囤積的狀況？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:38.882000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:44.748000+08:00","text":"柏油庫存……原料。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:44.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:48.891000+08:00","text":"如果是柏油的話，就2家而已，而且是公開的資訊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員金德","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:50.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:55.240000+08:00","text":"至於瀝青的部分，我請副主委來回答。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:56.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:15:35.057000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們工程會這邊管的大概是瀝青混凝土，我們不直接去管瀝青油，那瀝青混凝土的部分當然瀝青公會那邊有來函，可是同時我們也都有詢問北、中、南、東各個瀝青公司去調查行情，我們調查的時候大概是3月底、4月初這個階段，不過那個時候大概也從源頭這邊，主委跟行政院、經濟部或是院長、副院長，其實大家都有一直在掌握這個狀況，所以接下來大概確定就是供給會大於需求。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"李副主任委員怡德","start":"2026-04-13T12:15:35.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:15:51.246000+08:00","text":"其實依照歷史經驗來講，生產量、供給量其實都會大於這個階段的需求量，價格上漲那是一時可能有一些市場恐慌的反應行情，接下來其實公平會也會持續去關心這個價格。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:15:52.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:16:05.815000+08:00","text":"因為時間有限，我大致上就補充一下，目前來講的話，其實主要能夠做瀝青的這種重油還是在中東，那像美國、俄羅斯的部分，尤其美國的部分是沒有辦法去用在這一種的項目上。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:16:06.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:16:18.942000+08:00","text":"其實目前看國際的政經情勢，在中東的戰爭會愈演愈烈，所以說經濟部他們是不是有了解到石油這個原料能否真的來臺灣，這個部分不能過於樂觀。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:16:21.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:00.164000+08:00","text":"同時現在來講還在一個我們這邊沒戰事的一個狀況，那是一般的基本需求，還有基礎建設上的原料，坦白講我們要肯定鄭麗文主席的和平之旅，能夠讓兩岸目前發生戰火的機率下降，不然假如整個中東的戰爭火藥庫到時候燒到亞太地區的話，其實各種的戰備，像是需要存量的這種基礎建設的原物料，是大家沒有在估計的，所以這個部分其實都應該要併入考量。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:17:00.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:11.490000+08:00","text":"我們看到中東的戰事會需要那些原物料，那在臺灣，假如未來亞太地區也發生類似狀況的時候，到底是不是有足夠的原物料來供給？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"游委員顥","start":"2026-04-13T12:17:11.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:19.034000+08:00","text":"至於中東的石油，目前來講也不能夠過於樂觀，所以原物料的相關掌控，還是有賴工程會這邊持續的跟進，謝謝。好。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:17:19.534000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:22.105429+08:00","text":"謝謝游顥委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:17:22.405429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:31.548286+08:00","text":"第一、報告及詢答完畢，委員徐欣瑩、林楚茵所提書面質詢，列入紀錄並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:17:31.848286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:42.705429+08:00","text":"委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料，或未及答復部分，請公共工程委員會儘速以書面答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}