{"error":false,"id":["168490"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168490,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168490","日期":"2026-04-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-13T12:10:52+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-13T12:22:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5655ee4938da65e184e4fb2c34369c0281f6660fd2e34289c80866d4b6cb3fd6fd79bbc0b0a3b3945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"12:10:52 - 12:22:34","會議時間":"2026-04-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥、國防部副部長徐斯儉、內政部、海洋委員會報告「針對近期中國籍小型船隻非法侵入我國領海之偵搜漏洞檢討、科技監偵設備建置進度與精進作為」，併請大陸委員會、交通部列席，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":1.00971875,"end":4.77284375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":4.806593750000001,"end":8.36721875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":9.68346875,"end":10.392218750000001,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":13.345343750000001,"end":62.55284375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":62.75534375,"end":95.57721875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":82.07721875,"end":82.19534375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":95.77971875,"end":96.85971875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":96.43784375,"end":97.92284375000001,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":97.92284375000001,"end":106.91721875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":107.47409375000001,"end":108.04784375000001,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":108.09846875000001,"end":134.86221875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":139.60409375,"end":140.36346875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":150.72471875000002,"end":260.14221875000004,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":193.90784375,"end":194.02596875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":194.27909375000002,"end":194.32971875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":222.98346875000001,"end":223.33784375000002,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":261.28971875,"end":268.09034375000005,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":266.80784375,"end":267.73596875000004,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":268.46159375,"end":271.68471875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":271.90409375,"end":273.96284375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":274.67159375,"end":280.72971875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":276.37596875,"end":276.83159375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":277.47284375000004,"end":277.94534375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":280.98284375000003,"end":285.67409375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":285.91034375000004,"end":292.82909375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":293.09909375,"end":297.46971875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":298.75221875,"end":300.89534375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":301.40159375,"end":303.29159375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":303.67971875,"end":306.85221875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":307.29096875000005,"end":315.76221875000005,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":316.35284375000003,"end":337.85159375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":326.95034375,"end":327.22034375000004,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":337.85159375,"end":338.03721875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":338.03721875,"end":343.18409375000005,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":338.05409375000005,"end":338.10471875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":343.92659375,"end":349.49534375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":349.76534375,"end":379.93784375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":380.42721875,"end":382.57034375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":383.14409375,"end":383.90346875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":384.07221875000005,"end":384.32534375,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":384.32534375,"end":389.16846875000005,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":390.06284375,"end":390.51846875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":391.02471875000003,"end":392.99909375000004,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":393.31971875000005,"end":414.49784375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":395.90159375,"end":396.07034375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":398.21346875,"end":398.83784375000005,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":413.56971875000005,"end":413.95784375000005,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":414.49784375,"end":414.81846875,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":414.75096875,"end":419.32409375000003,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":419.72909375,"end":421.82159375000003,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":422.22659375,"end":423.52596875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":423.59346875,"end":425.26409375000003,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":425.77034375000005,"end":436.62096875000003,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":437.09346875000006,"end":438.84846875000005,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":439.77659375,"end":441.61596875000004,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":441.49784375,"end":498.60284375000003,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":475.48409375000006,"end":475.87221875000006,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":475.87221875000006,"end":475.90596875000006,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":495.98721875,"end":496.25721875000005,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":498.88971875000004,"end":558.15471875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":558.96471875,"end":575.01284375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":575.01284375,"end":575.29971875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":576.0928437499999,"end":576.73409375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":576.95346875,"end":577.3415937500001,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":577.83096875,"end":583.31534375,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":583.88909375,"end":639.6272187500001,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":640.3190937500001,"end":641.6015937500001,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":642.10784375,"end":669.05721875,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":669.05721875,"end":669.2934687500001,"speaker_score":0.856},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":669.09096875,"end":676.0265937500001,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":675.70596875,"end":675.8915937500001,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":676.0265937500001,"end":700.29284375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":700.29284375,"end":700.3940937500001,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":700.3940937500001,"end":700.44471875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":700.44471875,"end":700.6472187500001,"speaker_score":0.922},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":700.6472187500001,"end":701.01846875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"沈委員伯洋","start":701.42346875,"end":702.95909375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":701.9128437500001,"end":702.40221875,"speaker_score":0.856}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.567,"end":8.232,"text":"好,謝謝主席,那先有請這個海委會這個張副,放置副主委,海巡署,謝謝請副主委副主委好副主委好,那這個因為前陣子這一個習政會在這個訪中前一天有這一個中國軍艦的這個圍台那我今天時間因素我可能就不問國防部說這一個相關的一些訊息"},{"start":28.687,"end":34.088,"text":"但因為國台辦在4月8號的時候他有說這個海警巡護兩岸漁民那這個對我來講這個從我們2024年開始金門那一次的事件之後其實這種常態的騷擾已經變得越來越多那他們有可能想要把它常態化我認為說這可能也是屬於他們想要擴張法律權力的一環"},{"start":53.613,"end":76.528,"text":"所以從4月8日開始,海巡署現在對整件事情的處理跟掌握大概是如何?是否可以跟國人說明一下?從113年洞里阿斯案件以後,中國海警常態性地在我們金門跟麻竺做這個常態性的繞島的巡查。"},{"start":77.188,"end":106.708,"text":"那每一個月有四次會進到我們的限制水域裡面那這個部分我們全程都有掌握跟監控另外它進到我們的限制水域我們會以一對一的方式用循環艇把它驅離然後趕到這個外面那這個現象也持續到現在一直都是這樣那我們全程有監控那這一次所發生的就是從因為就從那個2024一直到現在嘛它一直持續不斷地做那就這一次它也沒有停止這樣的事情是嗎"},{"start":107.668,"end":134.471,"text":"沒有沒有所以這個就是說對我們來講不管是他們這個軍艦的一個騷擾或者說像他們的漁船的一個聚集又包含像這樣的他們稱所謂的他們海警要巡護這些騷擾其實一直都沒有停止那看起來並沒有釋出善意那我覺得這個對我們來講跟這個國家之間的交往其實應該是要打上一個很大的問號那接下來我想要請這個梁副主委請梁副主委 謝謝"},{"start":139.839,"end":140.184,"text":"請副主委"},{"start":154.033,"end":173.825,"text":"這一次的這個習政會當然我覺得很重要的一個框架就是說這個堅持九二共識然後多了這個反對台獨這幾個字眼那當然現在我所比較擔心的事情就是現在當然這一個所謂國共之間的框架看起來其實跟這個之前的這一個蓮湖並沒有什麼太大的差別看起來沒有什麼實質的進展"},{"start":175.766,"end":193.695,"text":"但是如果說今天像這樣的一個框架它已經由這樣的一個會面決定之後比如說我們來看我們的立法院有沒有可能比如說我們去修發展觀光條例又或者說我們去動這個離島建設條例又或者說和平協議的話其實最主要是兩岸條例的修法"},{"start":194.355,"end":218.957,"text":"那我們這邊會不會發生這個不知道但至少我們現在看到已經發生的就是比如說我們的國防這個預算現在還實質上被卡在這裡嘛總預算其實也是那像這一些呢實質上去弱化我們台灣國防跟國安的事情這個是實質上已經發生了那我現在比較擔心的就是因為他們現在就是發出了這個所謂會台的這個政策"},{"start":219.657,"end":240.748,"text":"那我相信梁副主委一定很熟悉之前這個所謂的藍八線就是他們想要只跟這個藍營執政的縣市去發展不管是相關的農產品的交流啦或者說中客的交流啦等等那我們現在對於這一種因為畢竟我們跟中國之間的交流照理說這個都是由中央政府或者由中央政府授權來做"},{"start":241.989,"end":259.644,"text":"那如果說他們現在漸漸的開始由地方政府然後根據他們現在這個會台措施然後自行的不管是簽訂相關的合約啦或者說在根本沒有合約的狀況之下時時就已經展開了進展這個對我們中央政府來講我們要如何因應"},{"start":261.957,"end":287.467,"text":"其實委員所講的這個現象本來就已經在發生中了譬如說台東跟對岸去做一個特別的協議有關於鳳梨世家這個部分然後指定哪些包裝廠或是哪些農場可以它的鳳梨世家是可以過去的"},{"start":288.467,"end":315.338,"text":"所以大概類似的事情都會發生不過現在的狀況可能我們台灣的狀況可能跟過去來講我覺得是有一些比較進步的地方也就是說譬如說以鳳梨世家來講雖然當初談成了這個協議但到現在恢復的量不大那為什麼因為第一個中國方面的經濟不好內需不強"},{"start":316.394,"end":342.621,"text":"他現在的很多國營企業他以前都是叫直接叫國營企業來買這個台灣的某一個地方的農產品等於是大家這個要一個Quota要一個責任制他現在現在也很困難做這些事情那包括那你說像鳳梨世家現在在雲南在海南島他的整個種植的面積都比台灣大了五倍以上不止所以他現在種植的種植的又便宜其實"},{"start":344.906,"end":369.161,"text":"台灣的鳳梨石家其實在那邊已經競爭力是不高了那所以對於農產品這一塊我們倒不是特別擔心而且我覺得農民這幾年來已經學到教訓了那所以這個部分的話我們覺得還好也就是說總的看起來這一次的這個十項的所謂的十項的會台措施"},{"start":369.901,"end":388.761,"text":"大概都是過去的東西然後重新包裝一下新的東西不多但是他換到的東西確實是很多等於是用一碗甜不辣換到了一盅佛跳牆這個佛跳牆是什麼這個就是整個台灣最大在野檔"},{"start":391.075,"end":414.31,"text":"到了北京然後在政治上面做出一些承諾然後譬如說什麼和平框架等等這些在政治上做出一些承諾然後向國際社會發出了在我們看來是一個錯誤的訊息譬如說你說我們不要外力的介入或是等等這樣子這些說法都會影響到台灣在國際社會上面的人家對你的看法"},{"start":414.83,"end":438.536,"text":"以及人家對你一旦有事的時候他們到底要怎麼對待你因為你的最大在野黨已經說過不要外力介入了那人家要怎麼幫忙你或是軍售上面人家為什麼還需要賣武器給你這些事情我覺得這個是北京這一次宣傳上的最重大的勝利但是他付出的所謂的利多"},{"start":439.847,"end":459.622,"text":"就是這麼一點點而已對我覺得這個就是當然是一個算是加強版的這個所謂的九二共識那他給國際事務的訊息就剛剛跟梁副主委提到的其實是非常的不妙那另外呢剛剛有提到就是說這一個農產品確實我們的農民其實已經學到這個相關的養套殺的這個課程在之前都經歷過了"},{"start":461.103,"end":484.94,"text":"我們現在其實說真的我們非中國之類的外銷其實已經佔了四五十億那其實對中國來講是一直在往下降已經降到十億以下了所以照理說我們的農民知道這件事情但是宣傳上他們還是一直會不斷的講說你這個世家你這些世家到底是不是反對台獨是不是有支持一國兩制這個對他們來講才是重點能不能驗出什麼蟲等等之類的"},{"start":486.902,"end":504.845,"text":"對於當然說我們的農民的警覺性我覺得希望這個陸委會也還是能夠加強協助我們農委會去跟我們的農民來做宣導我覺得這樣當然是一個但第二個我現在比較擔心的就是觀光因為觀光一直以來也是他們就是適合他們拿來做宣傳的工具跟農產品類似那"},{"start":505.365,"end":525.736,"text":"這一個所謂的自由行因為中國的觀光客他就算要來到這一邊他其實也要向其實戶口所在地的公安機關出入進去辦理這個所謂的大陸居民往來台灣這個通行證個人旅遊的簽註所以像這種最終可以操縱誰過來這可能還是跟中國的公安是有一定程度的關聯"},{"start":527.037,"end":543.358,"text":"那這個對我們來講是一定程度的風險就是說對方的宣傳當然是一直不斷地強調可以為台灣帶來利益雖然到最後都是一條龍那利益也是回歸到中國去但另外一個對我們來講很大的一個風險是他的公安介入公安介入他來的人他又會有另外一個程度的風險"},{"start":544.119,"end":557.172,"text":"那針對這件事情我們現在就跟我剛剛提到的藍八線又是一模一樣的案例就是說我們這些城市我們先不要管說之前國共論壇講說什麼要什麼AI交流數據交流什麼醫療交流那個完全都是風險但"},{"start":558.956,"end":574.786,"text":"撇開國共亂談講的這些東西光是觀光這件事情所能夠造成的風險其實就已經非常巨大那我今天看到這個台中市長盧秀燕她也提到就是說希望盡快中央來做對決我覺得這都是很危險的事物"},{"start":577.889,"end":595.262,"text":"大陸人要來台灣本來他第一道程序就是他要向當地的公安局申請到進入台灣地區的證件這樣子那所以不管是團客也好或是自由行或者是一般商務旅客或者是等等其他專案的"},{"start":597.304,"end":621.38,"text":"都是一樣的也就是說大陸這邊他自己要先肯放行才可以所以不只是自由行在其他的部分其他用各種名義來台灣的大陸人其實都有同樣的他首先有一個他自己會審核然後會願意放哪些人不放哪些人那個是他們在決定"},{"start":622.721,"end":637.461,"text":"但是對我們來講自由行或是團客的部分其實都是兩邊必須要協商的那不能說你當初2019年自由行說斷就斷現在你說要恢復就又恢復這個"},{"start":640.505,"end":661.172,"text":"對我們來說的話世界上沒有這麼簡單的事情你要斷就斷你要說恢復就恢復那這個台灣政府有台灣政府的立場所以不管是自由行還是團客我們都希望說先經過小兩會的商討再說這樣子但是到目前為止我們之前談團客的問題他們並沒有回復我們的要求"},{"start":665.774,"end":691.369,"text":"那自由行的部分這個也是他現在說片面所講的所以我們還是在等他看看他們會不會回覆我們說雙邊協商的要求謝謝好那這邊就再請陸委會幫忙做把關那另外還有一個問題就是我想之後到內政委員會再來問就是報導者有報導一系列跟這個台北網紅節有關的這一些消網紅的這些統戰網路這個當然其實在我過往的研究已經也是看了很久"},{"start":691.909,"end":702.749,"text":"但看起來有一些新的跡象或有一個新的pattern那關於這個部分我想說就等到之後內政委會有機會的話我再來請教陸委會好謝謝謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:53.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:54.008000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:54.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.050000+08:00","text":"先有請海委會張副主委，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.090000+08:00","text":"請副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.210000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.390000+08:00","text":"副主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:10:57.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:11:21.967000+08:00","text":"前陣子的習鄭會，在訪中前一天有中國軍艦圍臺，今天因為時間因素，我可能就不問國防部相關的這些訊息，但國臺辦在4月8日稱是海警巡護兩岸漁民。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:11:22.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:11:26.088000+08:00","text":"對我來講，從2024年金門那一次事件之後，這種常態性騷擾已經變得越來越多，他們有可能想要把它常態化，我認為這可能也是屬於他們想要擴張法律權力的一環。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:11:46.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:11:52.778000+08:00","text":"從4月8日開始，海巡署現在對這整件事情的處理跟掌握大概是如何？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:11:53.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:11:57.601000+08:00","text":"是否可以跟國人說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T12:11:57.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:16.633000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，從113年0214案件以後，中國海警在我們金門跟馬祖周邊進行常態性的繞島巡查，每一個月有4次會進到我們限制水域裡面，針對這個部分，我們全程都有掌握跟監控。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:16.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:23.778000+08:00","text":"另外，他們進到我們的限制水域，我們會以一對一的方式，用巡防艇把他們驅離並趕到限制水域外。","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:25.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:29.682000+08:00","text":"這個現象也持續到現在，一直都是這樣，但我們全程都有監控。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:30.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:41.630000+08:00","text":"這一次所發生的，因為從0214案件以後一直到現在，他們一直持續不斷地做，這一次也沒有停止這樣的事情，是嗎？沒有。沒有？是。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:42.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:12:55.201000+08:00","text":"對我們來講，不管是他們軍艦的騷擾或者漁船的聚集，又包含像他們所稱他們海警要巡護，這些騷擾一直都沒有停止，看起來並沒有釋出善意。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:12:55.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:01.667000+08:00","text":"我覺得這對我們來講，跟這個國家之間的交往，其實應該是要打上一個很大的問號。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:02.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:06.471000+08:00","text":"接下來我想要請梁副主委，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:11.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:12.164000+08:00","text":"請副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:12.164000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:19.098500+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:19.098500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:26.033000+08:00","text":"副主委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:26.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:45.805000+08:00","text":"有關這一次的習鄭會，我覺得很重要的一個框架就是堅持九二共識，多了「反對臺獨」這幾個字眼，我比較擔心的事情是現在這一個所謂國共之間的框架，看起來跟之前的「連胡會」並沒有什麼太大的差別，也沒有什麼實質的進展。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:47.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:13:59.252000+08:00","text":"但是，如果今天像這樣的一個框架，已經由這樣的會面決定之後，我們來看我們的立法院，有沒有可能修發展觀光條例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:13:59.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:02.213000+08:00","text":"又或者修離島建設條例？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:02.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:05.675000+08:00","text":"又或者是和平協議的話，其實最主要是兩岸條例的修法。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:06.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:07.376000+08:00","text":"我們這邊會不會發生？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:07.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:18.265000+08:00","text":"這個不知道，但至少我們現在看到已經發生的就比如我們國防預算，現在實質上還被卡在這裡，總預算其實也是。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:18.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:24.911000+08:00","text":"像這一些弱化我們臺灣國防跟國安的事情，實質上已經發生了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:25.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:14:44.104000+08:00","text":"我現在比較擔心的，因為他們現在發出了所謂惠臺政策，我相信梁副主委一定很熟悉之前所謂的藍8縣，就是他們只想要跟藍營執政的縣市去發展，不管是相關農產品的交流或者中客的交流等等。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:14:45.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:15:11.644000+08:00","text":"我們現在對於這一種……畢竟我們跟中國之間的交流，照理說這都是由中央政府或者由中央政府授權來做，如果他們現在漸漸的開始由地方政府……根據他們現在惠臺措施，自行的不管是簽訂相關合約或者在根本沒有合約的狀況之下，實質就已經展開了進展，這對我們中央政府來講，我們要如何因應？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:15:14.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:15:42.648000+08:00","text":"委員所講的這個現象，本來就已經在發生中了，譬如臺東跟對岸做一個特別的協議，有關於鳳梨釋迦這個部分，指定哪些包裝廠或者哪些農場的鳳梨釋迦是可以過去的，大概類似的事情都會發生。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:15:42.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:16:04.136000+08:00","text":"不過現在我們臺灣的狀況跟過去來講，我覺得是有一些比較進步的地方，譬如以鳳梨釋迦來講，雖然當初談成了這個協議，但到現在恢復的量不大，為什麼？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:16:04.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:16:21.237000+08:00","text":"因為第一個是中國方面的經濟不好、內需不強，他以前都直接叫國營企業來買臺灣某一個地方的農產品，等於是大家要一個quota、要責任制，他現在也很難做這些事情。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:16:23.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:16:40.648000+08:00","text":"像鳳梨釋迦，現在在雲南及海南島整個種植面積都比臺灣大了5倍以上，價格又便宜，所以臺灣的鳳梨釋迦在那邊的競爭力已經是不高了。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:16:42.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:17:17.838000+08:00","text":"對於農產品這一塊我們倒不是特別擔心，而且我覺得農民這幾年來已經學到教訓，所以這個部分我覺得還好，也就是整個看起來，這一次所謂的十項惠臺措施，大概都是過去的東西再重新包裝一下，新的東西不多，但是他換到的東西確實是很多，等於是用一碗甜不辣，換到了一盅佛跳牆，這個佛跳牆是什麼？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:17:17.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:01.234000+08:00","text":"就是臺灣最大在野黨到北京在政治上面做出一些承諾，譬如什麼和平框架等等這些承諾，向國際社會釋出在我們看來是一個錯誤的訊息，譬如你說我們不要外力介入等等，這些說法都會影響到臺灣在國際社會上面人家對你的看法，以及人家對你一旦有事的時候，他們到底要怎麼對待你，因為你的最大在野黨已經說過不要外力介入了，人家要怎麼幫忙你或是軍售上人家為什麼還需要賣武器給你？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:02.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:13.428000+08:00","text":"我覺得這些事情是北京這一次宣傳上最重大的勝利，但是他付出所謂的利多，就這麼一點點而已。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:13.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:22.675000+08:00","text":"我覺得這就是一個算是加強版的九二共識，它給國際釋出的訊息，就剛剛梁副主委提到的，其實是非常不妙。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:23.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:48.274000+08:00","text":"另外，剛剛有提到農產品，確實我們農民已經學到相關養套殺的課程，這之前都經歷過了，現在說真的，我們非中國的外銷已經占了四、五十億，對中國來講，是一直在往下降，已經降到10億以下，所以照理說，我們農民知道這件事情，但是在宣傳上，他們還是一直不斷地講……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:48.274000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:49.435000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:49.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:51.877000+08:00","text":"你這些釋迦到底是不是反對臺獨？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:51.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:53.218000+08:00","text":"是不是有支持一國兩制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:54.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:18:56.920000+08:00","text":"這對他們來講才是重點，能不能驗出什麼蟲等等之類的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:18:58.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:19:55.358000+08:00","text":"對於我們農民的警覺性，我希望陸委會也能夠加強協助農業部去跟農民宣導，這是第一個；第二個，我現在比較擔心的就是觀光，因為觀光一直以來也是他們適合拿來宣傳的工具，跟農產品類似，這所謂的自由行，因為中國觀光客就算要來到這邊，其實也要向戶口所在地的公安機關、出入境管理部門辦理大陸居民往來臺灣通行證、個人旅遊的簽注，所以像這種最終可以操縱誰過來，可能還是跟中國公安有一定程度的關聯，這對我們來講是有一定程度的風險，也就是對方的宣傳當然是一直不斷地強調可以為臺灣帶來利益，到最後都是一條龍，利益也是回歸到中國，但另外一個對我們來講很大的風險是他們公安的介入，那麼他來的人又會有另外一個程度的風險。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:19:56.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:20:17.480000+08:00","text":"針對這件事情，就跟我剛剛提到的「藍8縣」，又是一模一樣的案例，我們這些城市……我們先不要管之前國共論壇講什麼要AI交流、數據交流、醫療交流等等，那完全都是風險，但撇開國共論壇講的這些東西，光是觀光這件事情所能夠造成的風險其實就已經非常巨大。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:20:18.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:20:26.566000+08:00","text":"我今天看到臺中市市長盧秀燕也提到，希望中央儘快來對接，我覺得這都是很危險的事。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:20:29.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:21:07.256000+08:00","text":"大陸人要來臺灣，本來第一道程序就是要向當地公安局申請進入臺灣地區的證件，不管是團客、自由行、一般商務旅客或者是其他專案的都是一樣，也就是大陸這邊要先肯放行才可以，所以不只是自由行，在其他用各種名義來臺灣的大陸人其實都是同樣的。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:21:07.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:21:48.451000+08:00","text":"首先他們自己會審核，要放行哪些人、不放行哪些人，這部分是他們在決定的，但是對我們來講，自由行或是團客的部分，其實都是兩邊必須要協議、協商的，不能說當初的自由行在2019年說斷就斷，現在說要恢復就恢復，對我們來說，世界上沒有這麼簡單的事情，你要斷就斷，你說要恢復就恢復，臺灣政府有臺灣政府的立場，所以不管是自由行還是團客，我們都希望先經過小兩會的商討再來考量。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:21:49.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:08.220000+08:00","text":"但是到目前為止，之前談團客的問題，他們並沒有回復我們的要求，自由行的部分，也是他們現在片面所講的，所以我們還是在等，看他們會不會回復我們對雙邊協商的要求。謝謝。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:22:08.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:10.842000+08:00","text":"好，這部分就再請陸委會幫忙把關。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:22:11.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:27.476000+08:00","text":"另外還有一個問題，我想之後到內政委員會再來問，就是報導者有報導一系列跟臺北網紅節有關的這一些小網紅的統戰網路，這個其實在我過往的研究也已經看了很久，但看起來有一些新的跡象，有一個新的pattern。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:22:27.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:34.268000+08:00","text":"關於這個部分，我想就等到之後在內政委員會有機會的話，再來請教陸委會。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"梁副主任委員文傑","start":"2026-04-13T12:22:34.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:34.588000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-13T12:22:34.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:34.728000+08:00","text":"謝謝，謝謝主席。謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:22:35.228000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:22:38.942286+08:00","text":"接下來請牛煦庭委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}