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以前的署長水利啊什麼這些東西都是中央在花錢做的農民漁牧防疫都是中央衛福部也有你看檢疫這些都是這些單位做但是這些事情在金門都是金門縣政府做欸主席長你知道嗎"},{"start":190.182,"end":191.023,"text":"這個金門市有自來水廠誰的"},{"start":207.403,"end":235.517,"text":"那金門縣政府 誰出言 金門縣政府出錢啊但是委員 我跟你說 以前金門會缺水但是這幾年我們在金門投資了相當的金額你們投資很多做海淡廠 一天可以出多少水 你知道嗎一天啊 金門大概蓄水量差不多是2.6萬噸左右我們的供給量是海淡廠一天可以多少 你知道嗎4000噸 最多多遠的 水之遠哪遠 剩下水哪裡來的"},{"start":236.897,"end":253.493,"text":"剩下水哪裡來的 你在這邊回答剩下水哪裡來的今天不是要講水 今天不是要講水 今天不是要講水今天不是要講水 今天不是要講水今天不是要講水 今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水今天不是要講水"},{"start":255.214,"end":279.153,"text":"虎庫這個水哪裡來的?虎庫的水是天然的天然掉下來的喔?錯了除了你當然也知道還有說大陸飲水大陸來的嘛一天大陸來兩萬噸的水啊所以我現在講的是說我現在不是要跟你討論大陸來兩萬噸的水基本上百分之八十的水每一天都是大陸來的我不是要討論這個議題我要討論的是這些東西自來水供應啊什麼這些還有那個錢啊都是我們在出嘛你們連那個借錢不夠國發會跟你們經濟部的錢不夠我們投資了四十億喔"},{"start":284.938,"end":304.57,"text":"台電還包括電網設施在那個地方那是台電你現在講水就好了你以前水律師你講水就好台電等一下講水對不對所以我的意思是說剛剛主計長推說給國發會國發會上來一下我今天不是要提水水我們在總職群會來問來推給國發會說還有離島基金那我們來看離島基金你看請問今年的這個離島基金"},{"start":305.868,"end":324.066,"text":"那個 國發會 今年那個計畫你們給我們過了多少個案子我們提了36個案子 你們給我們多少個案子新興案子基本上我們4月20號我們會 工作小組會再討論那要等那個會議討論完以後我們才會出審通過只有兩個案子欸"},{"start":325.776,"end":349.985,"text":"36個案子只有給出審通過這我們跟你們要的資料應該不是正確的資料這是國發會提供的喔大概有36個提案20個具創新轉型域的20個新案的只有兩個通過原因是什麼來你們也給我們答案了這個是國發會給我們答案說因為請基金應該作為公務預算的助力是吧"},{"start":351.107,"end":360.712,"text":"基金請大家盡量利用公共預算這是國防會說的委員 幕僚給我的意見是我們初步建議至少21案"},{"start":362.188,"end":385.205,"text":"至少21案那你願意給我們立島多少錢就是那個金額目前還在那個大概跟上一期不會差太多大部分的錢要金門縣政府自己出吧這個數據就是我們立島基金撥補給地方政府的這一塊所以主計長我要講的是這樣子喔"},{"start":389.208,"end":415.837,"text":"我講的是這樣子喔就是說現在很多部會啊在給預算的時候都說要推給這個基金嘛推給國發會啦都要推給國發會但事實上很多錢本來各部會就應該要編您了解我的意思嗎你們把我們的財力分級往上提升變成第二級以後對金門我不否認我們這個就是財化法通過以後我們增加了增加了很多錢沒錯但是因為我們也負擔了很多中央應該做的事情"},{"start":418.924,"end":435.813,"text":"所以我們承擔了這麼久以後 原來就有後 就必須一直這樣忍受下去嗎我們幫你承擔了50年 原來就應該中央負擔的東西是不是 你有沒有想過我們都沒有講半句話 一直在中央業務 一直地方自己來做水的部分怎麼來做 你們就覺得這是原來就有負擔"},{"start":440.842,"end":469.742,"text":"是嘛 所以我又回頭來講我這邊講過很多次就是說財力來講我們基本也是離島嘛你就要把我們跟澎湖馬祖相同看待嘛財化法對離島有特別的用途你知道齁 就是那一題齁有特別 你那個辦法是不是可以幫我修一下你看一下這一題你沒有 我說按照那個辦法不然我們把第二集修成跟澎湖馬祖一樣啊要跟離島 難道你要把它變第一集嗎所有的公式都是公開透明是 但是財化法裡頭"},{"start":472.352,"end":483.244,"text":"中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法第三條第一款有說原住民不受財力集資的限制你知道這一條吧中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法第三條第一款"},{"start":494.332,"end":522.451,"text":"那按照中華民國憲法呢憲法第十條有規定喔這個國家要保障離島地區的居民生計與發展這是跟原住民一樣的保障那原住民既然可以明確的可以不受財力集赤的限制那按照憲法的這個權力平衡這個原則應該是離島要比照這個一樣的做法嘛與原住民同的做法嘛我們不要 我們沒跟原住民一樣金門沒跟原住民一樣也比澎懷馬祖還不好"},{"start":524.687,"end":532.846,"text":"我知道所有原因都是因為我們有金酒會賺錢我知道我們會賺錢那是我們很努力你應該要多一點鼓勵的機制"},{"start":533.826,"end":559.395,"text":"是 我們也希望能夠盡量來鼓勵啦但是以中央來講 中央沒有錢啦中央錢都分到地方去了中央沒有錢你不要幫他們採貨再沒有錢也比金門縣政府有錢啊中央應該做的事情 什麼水利啊 港務啊什麼防疫啊 全部都歸地方自己做 自己出錢那本來就是地方自治的"},{"start":559.975,"end":589.535,"text":"是 沒有 剛剛講的那些事情都不是地方制度我剛剛問過水利 那個以前 我們次長了他以前水利署署長 做得很好的署長那些是中央做的還是地方做的台灣自來水公司是地方的嗎是哪一個縣市的不是 像地方港舖 金門以前店都還自己的 醫院都還自己的那我們現在水 我們一直希望中央可以收回去中央也不收回去 我們全部都要自己做全部自己做就算了 你們給我們一點錢嘛或者 我們人借錢的利息都要我們自己出 對不對這個經濟部知道吧"},{"start":590.736,"end":608.268,"text":"那個利息也跟你們爭取那麼久,我們還幫你們墊錢,還要再墊利息,這樣有什麼意圖利?你知道我在說哪一筆對不對?我們對離島都是一視同仁啦,那客人基本上比較有錢啦,你看那個...你不要一直說我們有錢,謝謝相對於澎湖..."},{"start":609.696,"end":632.747,"text":"是 那是因為我們自己很努力嘛如果我們今天不努力呢 變敗家子咧不行嘛 對不對所以你們要鼓勵我們嘛所以財力的等級就是看地方政府他自有裁員的能力啊這是全國一致標準那至於我們帶水電的這個所謂的基礎設施的這個部分也是依照這樣子的方式來去做"},{"start":633.687,"end":639.353,"text":"像你剛說的海淡廠才4000噸對不對金門一天要來兩萬多噸的水兩萬二點需要兩萬三千噸的水其中有兩萬噸是從中國大陸來的是不是那如果說所以你是要幫我們多做一點韌性"},{"start":655.251,"end":676.825,"text":"水利署會跟金門縣政府一起來合作水利署會跟金門縣政府一起來合作這我上次就問過囉這是總執行會問這一題我告訴你我跟卓院長在治水的部分它有一些系統性的治水那這個計畫也是全國一致的標準如何協助地方就依照財力分子大家一起來努力"},{"start":678.186,"end":697.486,"text":"郭志慧在當部長的時候我上次總執行他就回答過了我們一天只有4000噸的自由水如果要海淡廠只有4000噸我們現在一天從大陸來2萬多噸你說要靠自己你就告訴我我在總執行要提供資料看你們到底一天可以讓我們有多少噸的自由水源假如今天大陸把水龍頭關起來的時候當時啊"},{"start":699.668,"end":724.745,"text":"這個大陸飲水的時候我們就是要求說我們事實上我們也協助把服務的菌蟹包括管蟹包括自來水包括海膽水我知道都做了但是老天爺沒有下雨就是沒有水起碼至少要保足7乘5以上的自有的需求量你今天就假定那個水門頭關起來的時候老天爺都沒有下雨 旱災因為常常都是沒有下雨這麼多人都有旱災如果沒有倒來水是都沒有水的"},{"start":726.827,"end":728.429,"text":"你可以把資料準備在下面 我們總之訓練的時候來討論 好嗎好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:03.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:03.301000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:03.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:03.942000+08:00","text":"麻煩先請主計長，之後下一題請國發會。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:04.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:04.583000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:05.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:08.226000+08:00","text":"主計長，金門的財力分級被升為第二級，竟然跟新北市一樣。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:08.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:31.321000+08:00","text":"新北市有100萬人口，有這麼多資源，兩個是完全不一樣，是不可以相比的，但你們竟然把金門劃到第二級？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:31.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:37.204000+08:00","text":"新北資源豐沛，但金門是一個資源受限的島嶼，且經濟規模差這麼多！","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:37.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:39.684000+08:00","text":"分級標準有反映真實的財政狀況嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:42.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:45.002000+08:00","text":"我們是按照新的財劃法去分的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:45.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:55.166000+08:00","text":"金門的統籌分配稅增加253%，金額上增加127億……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:55.166000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:56.166000+08:00","text":"沒有，是增加七十幾億。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:55.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:57.947000+08:00","text":"獲配127億……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:57.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:58.807000+08:00","text":"什麼獲配？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:58.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:25:59.667000+08:00","text":"獲配127億……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:25:59.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:01.148000+08:00","text":"分配到一百多億。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:01.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:02.548000+08:00","text":"但我本來就有五十幾億，所以才增加七十幾億……","quality":0.474},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:03.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:07.010000+08:00","text":"所以就是增加很多，且自有財源比例達到103……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:07.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:10.351000+08:00","text":"自有財源比例強是因為我們自己……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:10.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:11.412000+08:00","text":"也有金酒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:11.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:14.154000+08:00","text":"金酒貢獻了很多錢！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:14.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:16.636000+08:00","text":"當然，財劃法的通過對金門也有幫助，沒錯！是。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:16.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:20.339000+08:00","text":"但馬祖跟澎湖的分配比例也一樣增加很多……是……","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:20.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:21.060000+08:00","text":"一樣的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:21.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:23.262000+08:00","text":"為什麼他們就第五級，我們就第二級？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:23.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:25.103000+08:00","text":"不是，要看你的自有財源……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:25.343000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:27.745000+08:00","text":"因為我們的自有財源比較強，不過馬祖酒廠現在也做得不錯，而澎湖沒有自有財源，所以就是因為金門酒廠會賺錢，對不對？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:27.745000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:29.102833+08:00","text":"連江的自有財源才52……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:29.102833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:30.460667+08:00","text":"對，所以這就是我一直在跟你說的，你一直在懲罰好學生！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:30.460667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:31.818500+08:00","text":"不是懲罰好學生……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:31.818500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:33.176333+08:00","text":"認真賺錢的縣市就是要求他自己要再出多一點！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:33.176333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:34.534167+08:00","text":"我再跟委員報告，除了這個之外，就像我上次跟委員報告的，還有離島建設基金是針對離島……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:34.534167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:26:35.892000+08:00","text":"講到離島建設基金，國發會副主委請上來！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:26:35.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:11.185000+08:00","text":"你看，你左手給我們錢，右手卻削減……先請國發會副主委旁聽一下，因為剛剛主計長提到國發會的離島建設基金，對不對？是。","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:11.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:11.745000+08:00","text":"主計長，你是這麼說的？是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:11.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:16.509000+08:00","text":"所以才會說我們自主財源好，才把我們升級？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:17.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:25.015000+08:00","text":"你看，我們的統籌分配稅款雖然增加，但地方配合款其實也同步增加，以致我們每年增加了八千多萬的配合款。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:25.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:35.166000+08:00","text":"然後是離島建設基金，現在請國發會上來，你看一下，金門做了多少不屬於金門縣該做的事？","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:36.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:52.120000+08:00","text":"原來我們還有臺灣省，但在臺灣省被精省以後，什麼港務運作、自來水供給等……現在港務是中央和交通部，而經濟部水利署管自來水……今天前署長、現在的次長有在場。","quality":0.53},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:53.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:27:59.147000+08:00","text":"其實水利什麼的，本來都應該是中央花錢做的，還有農、林、漁、牧、防疫，也是中央及衛福部的工作。","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:27:59.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:05.613000+08:00","text":"你看，檢疫都是這些單位做的，但是這些事情在金門，都是金門縣政府在做，主計長你知道嗎？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:05.613000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:07.897500+08:00","text":"不然請經濟部次長回答一下，你以前是水利署署長，你看自來水在臺灣是不是除了臺北市、高雄市是不是都是臺灣省，以前臺灣省現在變成經濟部的自來水公司，對不對！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:07.897500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:10.182000+08:00","text":"自來水、自來水。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:10.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:11.003000+08:00","text":"金門有自來水廠。誰的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:11.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:27.563000+08:00","text":"金門縣政府的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:27.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:29.184000+08:00","text":"金門縣政府，誰出錢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:29.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:30.525000+08:00","text":"金門縣政府出錢啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:31.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:39.889000+08:00","text":"委員我跟你說以前金門會缺水，但是這幾年我們在金門投資相當的金額做海淡廠……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:39.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:44.391000+08:00","text":"錯，你們投資很多的金額做海淡廠，一天可以出多少水你知道嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:44.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:49.194000+08:00","text":"金門一天的需水量差不多是2.6萬噸左右，我們的供給量遠大於需要量。","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:49.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:52.355000+08:00","text":"海淡廠一天可以出多少，你知道嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:52.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:52.495000+08:00","text":"最多4,000噸。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:52.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:54.916000+08:00","text":"委員也知道有多元的水資源來源。","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:54.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:55.497000+08:00","text":"剩下的水從哪裡來？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:58.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:28:58.919000+08:00","text":"你在這邊回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:28:58.919000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:03.062750+08:00","text":"金門還有湖庫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:03.062750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:07.206500+08:00","text":"今天金門一天要2.3，我今天不是要講水，要提我們就來提，金門一天要2.3萬噸的水，對不對！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:07.206500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:11.350250+08:00","text":"你們做的海淡廠一天最多到4,000噸，剩下的水從哪裡來？","quality":0.045},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:11.350250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:15.494000+08:00","text":"還有湖庫。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:15.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:16.035000+08:00","text":"湖庫的水哪裡來的？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:16.035000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:17.035000+08:00","text":"湖庫的水哪裡來的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:16.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:17.836000+08:00","text":"湖庫的水是天然的，老天爺……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:18.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:19.598000+08:00","text":"天然掉下來的，錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:20.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:23.461000+08:00","text":"你當然也知道，還有大陸引水。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:23.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:24.181000+08:00","text":"大陸來的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:24.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:38.933000+08:00","text":"大陸一天來兩萬噸的水，我現在不是要跟你討論大陸來兩萬噸的水，金門每天百分之八十的水都是大陸來的，我不是要討論這個議題，我要討論自來水供應還有這些經費都是我們在出，你們連錢借得不夠，國發會跟經濟部的錢不夠利息都還要我們自己出。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:38.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:46.519000+08:00","text":"委員，我們在塔山電廠投資了40億，台電還有包括電網設施……","quality":0.522},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:47.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:51.762000+08:00","text":"那是台電，你現在講水就好了，你以前是水利署講水就好，台電等一下再講，水，對不對！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:51.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:29:59.407000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛主計長推給國發會，請國發會上來一下，我今天不是要提水，我們在總質詢會問水。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:29:59.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:09.472000+08:00","text":"推給國發會說還有離島基金，我們來看離島基金，請問國發會今年的離島基金計畫給我們通過多少個案子？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:09.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:13.356000+08:00","text":"我們提了36個案子，你給我們多少個新興案子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:14.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:19.402000+08:00","text":"基本上，我們4月20號工作小組會再討論。對。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:19.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:22.585000+08:00","text":"要等那個會議討論完以後，我們才會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:23.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:29.458000+08:00","text":"初審通過只有2個案子，36個案子初審通過只有給……這是我們跟你們要的資料。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:30.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:31.778000+08:00","text":"應該不是正確的資料。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:32.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:33.199000+08:00","text":"這是國發會提供的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:33.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:34.499000+08:00","text":"大概有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:34.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:40.502000+08:00","text":"36個提案，20個具創新轉型新興案只有2個通過，原因是什麼？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:40.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:49.245000+08:00","text":"你們也給答案了，這是國發會給我們的答案，基金應該作為公務預算的助力……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:49.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:49.965000+08:00","text":"不是吧！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:51.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:30:54.349000+08:00","text":"基金請大家儘量利用公務預算，這是國發會說的。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:30:55.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:00.691000+08:00","text":"委員，幕僚提供的意見是初步建議至少21案。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:02.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:03.869000+08:00","text":"至少21案。對。20案。21案、21案。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:04.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:08.032000+08:00","text":"裡面總共給我們離島多少錢？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:08.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:13.577000+08:00","text":"金額目前還在……大概跟上一期不會差太多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:14.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:16.599000+08:00","text":"大部分的錢要金門縣政府自己出吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:17.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:18.961000+08:00","text":"這個數據是你們提供的。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:19.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:22.023000+08:00","text":"離島基金撥補給地方政府的這一塊，是主計長給我們的資料……","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:22.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:25.065000+08:00","text":"所以，主計長，我要講的是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:25.065000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:31.729000+08:00","text":"可能會成長百分之十，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:31.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:42.412000+08:00","text":"現在很多部會在給預算的時候都要推給基金、推給國發會，但事實上很多錢本來就應該要各部會編。對。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:42.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:43.453000+08:00","text":"您了解我的意思嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高副主任委員仙桂","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:43.453000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:44.453000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:43.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:55.817000+08:00","text":"你把我們的財力分級往上提升變成第二級以後對金門……我不否認財劃法通過以後我們增加了很多錢沒錯，但是因為我們也負擔了很多中央應該做的事情。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:55.817000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:31:58.924000+08:00","text":"這是原來就有負擔，不是後來才增加。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:31:58.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:03.066000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們承擔了這麼久以後，原來就……以後就必須一直這樣忍受下去嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:03.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:05.767000+08:00","text":"我們幫忙承擔了50年原來中央就應該負擔的東西。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:05.767000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:07.108000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，但是我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:07.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:15.813000+08:00","text":"是不是，你有沒有想過我們都沒有講半句話，中央的業務一直是地方自己來做，水和其他的部分都做，你們覺得這些原來就是由我們負擔。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:15.813000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:21.262000+08:00","text":"算是財力比較好的縣市。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:21.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:30.189000+08:00","text":"是，所以又回頭來講，我也講過很多次了，就財力來講我們金門也是離島，你就要把我們跟澎湖、馬祖相同看待，對不對！","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:31.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:31.389000+08:00","text":"財劃法對離島有特別的……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:33.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:44.259000+08:00","text":"你知道吧，就是那一題，您的辦法是不是可以幫我修一下，你看一下這題，就按照那個辦法幫我們把第二級修成跟澎湖、馬祖一樣，要跟離島……難道你要幫他們變第一級嗎？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:44.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:45.179000+08:00","text":"所有的公式都是公開、透明，所以……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:48.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:49.742000+08:00","text":"是，但是財劃法裡頭……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:49.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:52.352000+08:00","text":"沒有辦法這樣子隨便調。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:52.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:32:58.419000+08:00","text":"你看一下中央有關的辦法，中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法第三條第一款，原住民族……不受財力級次的限制，你知道這一條吧？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:32:59.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:33:03.224000+08:00","text":"中央對直轄市及縣市政府補助辦法第三條第一款。對。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:33:14.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:33:52.826000+08:00","text":"按照中華民國憲法第十條的規定，國家要保障離島地區的居民生計與發展，這是跟原住民一樣的保障，原住民既然可以明確的不受財力級次的限制，按照憲法的權利平等原則，離島應該是要比照與原住民相同的做法，金門沒跟原住民族一樣也比澎湖、馬祖還不好，我知道所有原因都是因為我們有金酒會賺錢，我知道我們會賺錢，那是因為我們很努力，你應該要多一點鼓勵的機制。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:33:53.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:33:56.327000+08:00","text":"是，我們也希望能夠儘量鼓勵啦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:33:56.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:01.989000+08:00","text":"但是以中央來講沒有錢，中央的錢都分到地方去了，現在它沒有辦法……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:02.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:07.051000+08:00","text":"中央沒有錢也比金門縣政府有錢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:07.051000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:08.051000+08:00","text":"不是，但是我們要面對所有的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:08.051000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:09.051000+08:00","text":"你現在中央的……懂嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:08.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:16.854000+08:00","text":"中央應該做的事情什麼水利、港務、防疫全部都歸地方自己做、自己出錢，水利署剛剛也……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:16.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:19.375000+08:00","text":"那本來就是地方自治的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:20.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:21.936000+08:00","text":"沒有，剛剛講那些事情都不是地方自治。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:22.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:29.501000+08:00","text":"我剛剛都問過我們次長了，他以前是做得很好的水利署署長，那些是中央還是地方做的？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:29.501000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:30.501000+08:00","text":"只是中央有補助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:30.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:32.964000+08:00","text":"台灣自來水公司是地方的嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:32.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:33.584000+08:00","text":"是哪一個縣市的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:34.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:35.145000+08:00","text":"不是，像地方港埠的部分……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:35.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:34:55.339000+08:00","text":"以前金門的電和醫院都還是自己的，我們一直希望中央可以將現在的水收回去，中央也不收回去，我們全部都要自己做，全部自己做就算了，你們可以給我們一點錢或者我們連借錢的利息都要自己出，對不對，這部分經濟部應該知道，利息也跟你們爭取那麼久，我們還幫你們墊錢、墊利息，這樣有什麼道理？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:34:57.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:00.162000+08:00","text":"你知道我在說哪一筆對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:00.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:04.625000+08:00","text":"我們對離島都是一視同仁，更何況金門比較有錢，你看那個……","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:04.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:07.527000+08:00","text":"你不要一直說我們有錢，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:07.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:08.248000+08:00","text":"相對於澎湖……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:09.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:13.738000+08:00","text":"是，那是因為我們自己很努力，如果我們今天不努力呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:14.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:14.518000+08:00","text":"變敗家子呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:15.259000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:15.559000+08:00","text":"不行嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:15.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:16.819000+08:00","text":"對不對！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:16.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:17.960000+08:00","text":"所以你們要鼓勵我們。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:18.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:32.727000+08:00","text":"所以財力的等級就是看地方政府自有財源的能力，這是全國一致的標準，至於我們在水、電所謂基礎設施部分，也是依照這樣的方式去做……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:33.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:38.853000+08:00","text":"所以像你剛剛說的，我再講1分鐘，像你剛剛說的海淡廠不是才4,000噸，對不對，金門一天需要2萬3,000噸的水，其中的兩萬噸是從中國大陸來的，是不是，如果說……","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:38.853000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:39.853000+08:00","text":"委員，靠自己的比較穩啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:38.853000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:39.333000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，所以你是要幫我們多做一點韌性，靠自己的比較穩，你現在就只能提供4,000噸啊！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:35:55.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:35:58.293000+08:00","text":"水利署會跟金門縣政府一起來合作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:02.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:36:04.497000+08:00","text":"好，這部分我上次就問過了，告訴你這次總質詢會問這題。","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:06.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:36:16.805000+08:00","text":"治水的部分，卓院長有一些系統性的治水，這個計畫也是全國一致的標準，如何協助地方就是依照財力分級大家一起來努力。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:18.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:36:37.406000+08:00","text":"好，郭智輝在當部長的時候，我上次總質詢他就回答過了，我們一天只有4,000噸的自有水，如果要海淡廠只有4,000噸，我們現在一天從大陸來兩萬多噸，你說要靠自己，再請你告訴我，總質詢時會請你們提供資料，看你們到底一天可以讓我們有多少噸的自有水源，假如今天大陸把水龍頭關起來的時候，到時候我們再來討論。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:37.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:36:47.514000+08:00","text":"當時我們在大陸引水的時候，我們就要求……事實上，我們也協助把水庫的圳線包括管線、自來水、海淡廠……","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:47.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:36:50.195000+08:00","text":"我知道都做了，但是老天爺沒有下雨就是沒有水。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:51.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:36:56.219000+08:00","text":"起碼至少要保足七成五以上的自由需求量。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員玉珍","start":"2026-04-13T12:36:56.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:37:08.409000+08:00","text":"是，你今天就假定那個水龍頭關起來的時候，老天爺都沒有下雨、旱災，因為常常都沒下雨，這麼多年都有旱災，如果大陸沒有供水是都沒有水用的，可以把你的自來水、海淡廠資料準備一下，我們總質詢的時候來討論好嗎？","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-13T12:37:08.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T12:37:08.429000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:37:08.929000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:37:12.357571+08:00","text":"我們謝謝陳玉珍委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:37:12.657571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:37:17.229000+08:00","text":"接下來何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T12:37:17.529000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T12:37:56.671857+08:00","text":"我們今天登記發言的委員都已經答詢完畢，我們本次會議作如下的決定：報告及詢答完畢，委員質詢未答復或請補充資訊，請相關部會於一週之內以書面答復，另外委員要求期限者，從其所定；委員的部分有徐富癸委員、洪毓祥委員、王世堅委員所提書面質詢，以及書面補充資料，均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關部會以書面做後續的答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}