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謝謝"},{"start":16.041,"end":30.541,"text":"副主委好副部長好副主委好來引向加持無人艇應對海上滋擾無人艇建案訓練戰備足夠並行先請教副主委我國政府下一頁我國政府網路三個月"},{"start":32.803,"end":51.793,"text":"輕擾1.7億次那這裡面我們看到了什麼包括不只這個啊官方有什麼中共來的是戰機跟海警船灰色地帶有漁船橡皮艇網路深擾人員受傷等等等請問一下我們副主委除了攻擊擾台海警船等官方手段漁船橡皮艇網路威脅這個您覺得是不是也很嚴重"},{"start":53.895,"end":77.185,"text":"各位報案這是值得關注的問題好 所以我們今天都在關心來 下一頁我們小型船艇的入侵難偵測用SAR還是用影像觀測小型船艇雷達難偵測 岸基雷達很難看到那麼小的目標體積又小漁船的話它可能關閉或夜召AIS對不對所以難以查獲 又可以製造假象 又可以逆行蹤所以說我們海巡很吃重"},{"start":77.825,"end":101.741,"text":"要靠你們海巡 還有燈檢 可是燈檢的皮革分泌船隻老化請問一下有沒有更高效的應對方式 譬如用SAR核心攻擊雷達還是用影像觀測 副主任你怎麼看剛委員提到的都是方法之一另外我們現在用高科技的這個無人機部分也是一個方法之一另外我們優化我們的所有這個零二氰針針的相關設備也可以徵收到相關的設備"},{"start":102.501,"end":128.838,"text":"可以建設建議你們除了無人機之外還有什麼無人艇來往下看之前我跟您海巡都有建議過無人艇的運作模式無人艇的好處它不會累它可以在待命模式然後呢出去執行任務然後它還可以返航那這時候呢很重要的我們都知道目前的無人載具啊自動巡標自主導控很重要那就無人艇來講要訓練它就要影像識別要日間的夜間的這需要高階鏡面需要紅外線這個大概是無人艇的運作模式往下看"},{"start":129.679,"end":149.658,"text":"好 那麼如果是搭配海巡也有這種做法 比如說我們無人艇搭配無人機自動巡航 那麼像這個辨識目標後 它就接近驅離那如果以海巡來講 我們主要是驅離嘛 哪些環節你覺得如果用無人艇來協助海巡對這些不明船舶或灰色滋擾 您覺得有哪些地方可以加強的"},{"start":152.659,"end":173.634,"text":"我非常佩服委員 委員也經常提供先進的資訊給我我這邊特別要回答委員海巡組在這次特別任性條例裡面有編列了一筆預算也就是專門做水面的溫庭跟水下的溫宅局部分另外在空中的部分也都是並行在一起來處理"},{"start":175.115,"end":195.835,"text":"這三者來聯合起來就可以做成三維的立體的聯合性偵測的部分那另外無人艇主要的好處就是它自來時間很長然後也可以維護我們人員在服務群上的安全另外對於風險高風險的這些船舶譬如說是這個可疑的船舶那我們用無人艇先去先徵收然後也可以保護我們人員的安全是的"},{"start":196.235,"end":213.223,"text":"所以吳仁廷出任務可以透過AI加持他需要影像資料來加以訓練因為影像辨識跟自動尋標你要AI是自動化辨識需要大量的影像要有模型訓練要準確還能識破偽裝請問海巡組要如何取得大量的海上平面影像資料庫"},{"start":215.894,"end":235.573,"text":"除了我們平常聯合輕針針以外還有國防部跟友軍提供的這些資訊以外另外我們從空中的這個偵搜的也可以做到很好 你講到空中那我們來看一下往下看跟中跟追蹤是不太一樣的文人挺訓練學校的影像呢如果說今天我們透過高空的偵蹤像瑞恩二行"},{"start":236.354,"end":254.64,"text":"上面往下俯瞰這時候看到的是一樣是一種資料但是無人艇如果他要自主自主導控他需要的是什麼他需要的是水平的圖像不然的話你要在瑞淵上面告訴你來船在哪裡船在哪裡因為你分不出誰是誰所以呢無人艇他是需要水平的還是需要垂直的影像"},{"start":256.249,"end":275.269,"text":"水平水平很好所以目前我就往下走了好 那個水平影像我們給你一個參考的例子大家有聽過Google的街景車對不對它在隨著道路這樣走它可以把這個都市的3D影像測會出來但是也有人說那個計程車滿街跑啊"},{"start":276.21,"end":281.554,"text":"計程車上面有那個行車記錄器啊如果要知道的不是道路周邊的建築是道路上的車輛的話搞不好計程車上面的行車記錄器就會成為影像的取得來源您覺得如果以這兩個做比喻"},{"start":291.221,"end":293.463,"text":"您覺得未來海上的平面影像是要透過專屬的配置的船艦去取得還是可以用一些其他的作業的船隻幫我們順便取得海面上我們的守備海域上相關的影像 船舶的影像"},{"start":307.711,"end":335.341,"text":"跟尾巴這兩個都是方法之一那其實如果是針對特定的標的特定的地方特定我們還是建議用那個有目的性的專屬的船艦那另外如果廣域的部分這一個部分我們有很多的方式譬如說我們的漁船譬如說我們其他在航的艦船艇還有其他的商務員都可以從事也幫我們做這件事情所以我知道從高空的影像現在影像資料庫有得買"},{"start":336.192,"end":351.99,"text":"但是那是很多國家他們通過衛星大量收集的但是我們海巡巡弋的防衛我們不用到歐洲不用到北海我們有台灣附近的海域這個海域的空間有限我們集中取得這水瓶的影像資料這個我們請海巡去研究一下好再往下走"},{"start":353.692,"end":375.17,"text":"好 那麼請教一下 其實除了無人艇 除了海巡之外 軍方也在可以使用我們看一下 如果以FDA無人機跟無人艇來看的話大概無人機跟無人艇在我們軍事上的使用大概有幾個不一樣無人機是一次性的 而且訓練的損耗很高無人艇就算它有攻擊型 它在沒有攻擊後 它還是可以平安返航無人機比較困難"},{"start":378.072,"end":391.502,"text":"無人機的迭代更新很快無人艇的迭代更新沒那麼快所以基本上我們無人機會用買的但是無人艇的部分其實有一種可能就是租賃無人艇應用場景多元是否應該全部買到我請問副部長您看法呢您覺得未來軍方在建置無人機跟無人艇它的一個取得的方式有沒有不同"},{"start":402.146,"end":427.867,"text":"現在的確如委員所講這個無人機不只FPV啦它這個因為疊帶有針尖型的不同的是的確是它的那個疊帶更新的確是很快所以我們像我們特別預算的話我們是逐年它都要改變標準分批逐年買對 一定要這樣子但是無人艇的基本上我來往下看其實無人艇呢我們就以永陰高校機跟主力戰機來看好了我們的永陰高校機我們是自製的"},{"start":428.968,"end":451.271,"text":"它的推力 相關的性能 雖然較主力在於消訓一點但最大的差別 它的上面的電子偵控的電控系統呢 它比較沒有那麼先進因為訓練的時候 你不需要直接雷達射控都OK但是呢 如果我們用無人艇來說今天如果我們國家建置無人艇的一個部隊 假設要一千艘"},{"start":452.252,"end":473.732,"text":"那你要先什麼 先訓練人員嘛那這時候有沒有考慮過先要有一個用教育訓練為主的無人艇用租賃的方式來提供給海軍包括說我們有海軍專長訓練中心那無人機跟無人艇差別在嘛無人機如果訓練不好掉下來就砸了無人艇不會 但是無人艇要什麼 要維修所以呢無人艇的建軍"},{"start":474.753,"end":490.183,"text":"除了我們一線作戰用的軍備要用購買的之外有沒有可能考慮用本土來建立我們訓練就像永硬一樣用這種方式來用租賃的方式提供售後服務還可以迭代更新的方式來作為我們海軍建置我們無人艇部隊的一個方法各位請海軍三分長恢復來請"},{"start":497.303,"end":520.393,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們訓練的這個部分我們那個無人艇因為我們主要的目的是用來供洗所以就算要租賃的話也必須要廠商願意去產製那個跟我們自殺型無人艇一模一樣的艇才有辦法做訓練使用所以說永英跟我們的主力戰機難道不能相容嗎"},{"start":521.735,"end":528.497,"text":"對不對 所以我們空軍用無人 泳鷹 泳鷹做高校機它如果正在戰爭的時候 它裝上了最先進的射控雷達它裝上了武裝 它也是一個戰機啊所以無人艇它在 我只是說在無人艇因為它好處是什麼它訓練的時候的損耗跟無人機是不同的它浮在水上嘛 操作失誤也不會全毀嘛所以是請海軍思考一下未來我們海軍在建設無人艇建軍的時候除了購買先進 最先進的這種自殺性的無人艇"},{"start":551.044,"end":551.747,"text":"它有很好的反干扰很好的增光"},{"start":555.694,"end":579.626,"text":"一個控制設備,很好的電子反制設備之外那麼在訓練的時候不需要開這個嘛訓練的時候我們教學他會操作他會,因為他要自主導航那麼這種情況之下是不是海軍在建制無人艇部隊的時候也應該參考空軍的主力戰機的方式自主研發我們本土型的類似勇鷹的這樣的高校機讓我們的海軍的人才培訓可以跟著他使用的器材與時俱進,可以嗎?對,做我們的練習參考"},{"start":582.287,"end":603.721,"text":"好 謝謝 那我最後就是請副副長跟海委會 海委會請評估海象影像資料庫的建立方式最後一頁及內容形式 好不好回去評估一下除了高空的 水平的 水平的除了專船之外是不是也可以考慮其他船舶來提供 可以嗎可以好 副部長 那麼請國防部就無人艦艇採購模式是我居足夠併行的可能提出說明報告 可以嗎"},{"start":605.262,"end":621.614,"text":"是 謝謝謝謝委員指示好 那在最後一點時間在上週我們在場的召委我們的陳召委他舉辦了一個海上防衛無人論壇我去聽了一點小段我覺得非常的精彩內容非常豐富不曉得我們國防部有沒有請人去參考有沒有有沒有人請人去收集那邊的意見好像沒有受邀建議你們不是受邀沒有受邀要主動去關心瞭解如果你們有人去收集這些相關的意見"},{"start":635.085,"end":647.111,"text":"我是持肯定開放的態度我覺得這個論壇辦得非常好如果國安部有去多收集民間的聲音也可以參考如果你們參考的資料還不夠你也可以提供給我一份讓我來參考一下可以嗎"},{"start":648.936,"end":667.856,"text":"好 謝謝委員那個 朝委不好意思我講錯了 我講錯了有來有來是不是因為我不知道 不好意思不好意思OK 有有有有來啦齁那如果你們那個報告除了內參機敏的部分以外的部分可以給我們也參考一下因為我覺得辦得很好我們希望未來我們國家建軍防衛的方向應該是軍民各方面重複來進行好不好好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:19+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:20+08:00","text":"主席、在場委員先進、列席政府首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士、先生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:20+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:21+08:00","text":"有請國防部徐副部長、海軍司令部朱參謀長和海委會張副主委兼海巡署署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:19.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:19.449000+08:00","text":"請以上人員就備詢臺，謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:35.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:35.181000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:37.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:38.846000+08:00","text":"副部長好，副主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:40.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:53.864000+08:00","text":"影像加持無人艇應對海上滋擾，無人艇建案訓練戰備租購並行，先請教副主委，我國政府網路三個月遭侵擾1.7億次，從這裡面我們看到了什麼？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:54.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:05:56.785000+08:00","text":"不只這個，官方有什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:05:56.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:10.773000+08:00","text":"中共來的是戰機跟海警船，灰色地帶有漁船、橡皮艇、網路侵擾、人員滲透等等，請問一下副主委，除了共機擾臺、海警船等官方手段，漁船、橡皮艇、網路威脅，您覺得是不是也很嚴重？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:13.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:15.016000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這是值得關注的問題。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:15.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:23.460000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們今天都在關心小型船艇的入侵難偵測，用SAR還是用影像觀測。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:23.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:31.963000+08:00","text":"小型橡皮艇雷達難偵測，岸際雷達很難看到那麼小的目標，體積小，漁船可能關閉或偽造AIS，對不對？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:31.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:43.149000+08:00","text":"所以難以查獲又可以製造假象又可以隱匿行蹤，這時候海巡很吃重，要靠海巡登檢，可是登檢的疲於奔命，船隻老化，請問一下有沒有更高效的應對方式？","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:43.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:46.671000+08:00","text":"譬如用SAR合成孔徑雷達，還是用影像觀測？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:46.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:06:47.172000+08:00","text":"副主委，你怎麼看？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:06:48.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:07:00.741000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提到都是方法之一，另外我們現在用高科技的無人機也是方法之一，另外我們優化聯合情監偵相關設備，也可以偵搜到相關的設備。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:07:02.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:07:04.303000+08:00","text":"建議你們除了無人機之外，還有無人艇。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:07:05.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:07:27.538000+08:00","text":"之前我跟您、海巡都有建議過，無人艇的運作模式，無人艇的好處是它不會lag，它可以在待命模式，出去執行任務還可以返航，這時候很重要的，我們都知道目前的無人載具自動尋標、自主導控很重要，就無人艇來講，要訓練它就要影像識別、要有日間的、夜間的，這需要高階鏡面、需要紅外線，這大概是無人艇的運作模式。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:07:29.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:07:41.151000+08:00","text":"如果是搭配海軍，也有幾種做法，譬如無人艇搭配無人機自動巡航，辨識目標後它就接近驅離，如果以海巡來講，主要是驅離。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:07:43.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:07:48.638000+08:00","text":"如果用無人艇來協助海巡，對這些不明船舶或灰色滋擾，您覺得有哪些地方是可以加強的？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:07:51.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:07:57.783000+08:00","text":"我非常佩服委員，然後委員也經常會提供先進的資訊給我。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:07:58.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:08:34.574000+08:00","text":"我特別回答委員，海巡署在這次特別韌性條例裡面有編列了一筆預算，也就是專門做水面的無人艇跟水下的無人載具，另外在空中的部分，也都是併聯在一起處理，這三者來聯合起來就可以做成三維的、立體的聯合情監偵，另外無人艇主要的好處就是它滯海時間很長，然後也可以維護人員在浮行上的安全，另外對於高風險的船舶，譬如可疑的船舶，我們用無人艇先去偵搜，也可以保護人員的安全。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:08:34.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:08:52.223000+08:00","text":"是的，所以無人艇出任務可以透過AI加值，它需要影像資料來加以訓練，因為影像辨識跟自動尋標，要AI自動化辨識需要大量的影像，要有模型訓練、要準確還能識破偽裝，請問海巡署要如何取得大量的海上平面影像資料庫？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:08:54.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:09:04.143000+08:00","text":"特別跟委員報告，除了我們平常的聯合情監偵還有國防部跟友軍提供的資訊以外，我們從空中的偵搜也可以做到相關的平面影像。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:09:04.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:09:11.130000+08:00","text":"很好，你講到空中，我們來看一下，跟蹤跟追蹤是不太一樣的，無人艇訓練需要什麼影像呢？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:09:11.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:09:35.429000+08:00","text":"如果今天我們透過高空的偵蹤像銳鳶二型，它從上面往下俯瞰，這時候看到的是一種資料，但是無人艇如果要自主導控，它需要的是水平的圖像，不然的話，你要銳鳶告訴你船在哪裡，因為你分不出誰是誰，所以無人艇是需要水平的還是垂直的影像？水平。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:09:36.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:09:44.939000+08:00","text":"很好，所以我就往下走了，如果是水平影像，我們給你一個參考的例子，大家有聽過Google的街景車，對不對？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:09:44.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:10:00.014000+08:00","text":"它隨著道路這樣走，可以把都市的3D影像測繪出來，但是也有人說，計程車滿街跑，計程車上面有行車紀錄器，如果要知道的不是道路周邊的建築，是道路上的車輛，搞不好計程車上面的行車紀錄器就可以成為影像的取得來源。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:10:00.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:10:12.443000+08:00","text":"如果以這兩個比喻，您覺得未來海上的平面影像是要透過專屬配置的船艦去取得，還是可以用其他的作業船隻，幫我們順便取得海面上、守備海域上相關的船舶影像？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:10:26.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:10:29.012000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這兩個都是方法之一。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:10:30.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:10:39.135000+08:00","text":"其實如果是針對特定標的、特定地方、特定的……我們還是建議用有目的性的專屬船艦。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:10:39.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:10:50.359000+08:00","text":"另外，如果是廣域的部分，我們有很多方式，譬如漁船、其他在航的艦船艇，還有其他的商貨輪都可以從事，來幫我們做這件事情。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:10:50.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:11:10.750000+08:00","text":"是，我知道，高空影像現在影像資料庫有得買，那是很多國家透過衛星大量蒐集的，但是我們海巡巡弋的防衛不用到歐洲、北海，就是臺灣附近的海域，這個海域的空間有限，我們集中取得水平影像資料，請海巡去研究一下。是。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:11:13.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:11:34.170000+08:00","text":"請教一下，其實無人艇除了海巡之外，軍方也可以使用，如果以FPV無人機跟無人艇來看的話，無人機跟無人艇在軍事上的使用大概有幾個不一樣，無人機是一次性的，而且訓練損耗很高；無人艇就算有攻擊型，沒有攻擊之後，它還是可以平安返航，無人機比較困難。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:11:37.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:11:47.400000+08:00","text":"無人機的迭代更新很快；無人艇的迭代更新沒那麼快，所以基本上無人機會用買的，但是無人艇有一種可能就是租賃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:11:47.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:11:49.141000+08:00","text":"無人艇應用場景多元，是否應該全部買斷？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:11:49.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:11:49.402000+08:00","text":"我請教副部長，您的看法呢？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:11:49.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:11:50.482000+08:00","text":"你覺得未來軍方在建置無人機跟無人艇的取得方式有沒有不同？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:01.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:07.411000+08:00","text":"現在的確如委員所講，無人機不只FPV，因為迭代……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:07.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:08.392000+08:00","text":"有偵監型、不同的。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:08.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:09.353000+08:00","text":"是，的確是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:09.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:16.298000+08:00","text":"它的迭代更新的確是很快，所以像我們這個預算的話，逐年都要改變標準。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:16.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:16.979000+08:00","text":"分批逐年買。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:16.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:18.420000+08:00","text":"對，必須要這樣子。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:18.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:12:52.774000+08:00","text":"基本上，無人艇就以勇鷹高教機跟主力戰機來看好了，勇鷹高教機是自製的，它的推力、相關性能雖然較主力戰機稍遜一點，但最大的差別，它上面的電控系統比較沒有那麼先進，因為訓練的時候不需要直接雷達射控都OK；以無人艇來說，今天如果我們國家要建置無人艇部隊，假設要1,000艘，那你要先訓練人員嘛！","quality":0.874},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:12:53.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:03.003000+08:00","text":"這時候有沒有考慮過先要有以教育訓練為主的無人艇，用租賃方式提供給海軍，包括海軍有專長訓練中心？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:04.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:05.145000+08:00","text":"而無人機跟無人艇的差別在什麼地方？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:05.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:10.730000+08:00","text":"無人機如果訓練不好掉下來就砸了，無人艇不會，但是無人艇要維修。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:11.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:28.963000+08:00","text":"所以無人艇的建軍，除了一線作戰用的軍備要用購買的之外，有沒有可能考慮用本土的來建立訓練，就像勇鷹一樣，用租賃提供售後服務，還可以用迭代更新的方式，作為海軍建置無人艇部隊的一個方法？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:29.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:29.183000+08:00","text":"可不可以請海軍參謀長回復？來，請。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:29.183000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:38.984000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我是戰規司司長。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:38.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:42.946000+08:00","text":"訓練的部分，因為無人艇主要的目的是用來攻擊。是。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:44.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:55.671000+08:00","text":"所以就算要租賃的話，也必須要廠商願意產製跟刺殺型無人艇一模一樣的艇，才有辦法做訓練使用。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:13:57.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:13:59.393000+08:00","text":"當然，難道勇鷹跟我們的主力戰機不能相容嗎？","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:00.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:04.016000+08:00","text":"所以空軍用勇鷹做高教機，如果真的有戰爭的時候，它裝上最先進的射控雷達、它武裝了，也是一架戰機啊！","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:04.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:05.276000+08:00","text":"我只是說，無人艇的好處是什麼？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:05.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:05.977000+08:00","text":"訓練時它的損耗跟無人機是不同的，它浮在水上，操作失誤也不會全毀。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:06.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:39.677000+08:00","text":"請海軍思考一下，未來海軍在無人艇建軍的時候，除了購買最先進的刺殺性無人艇，它有很好的反干擾、控制設備、電子反制設備之外，在訓練的時候不需要開這個嘛！","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:40.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:58.306000+08:00","text":"訓練的時候我們是要讓它可以操作、自主導航，那麼這種情況之下，是不是海軍在建置無人艇部隊時，也應該參考空軍主力戰機的方式，自主研發本土型的、類似勇鷹這樣的高教機，讓海軍的人才培訓可以跟著使用的器材與時俱進？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:58.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:58.446000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長文啓","start":"2026-04-13T13:14:58.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:14:58.606000+08:00","text":"可以，這我們列入參考。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:01.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:01.807000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:01.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:04.629000+08:00","text":"我最後就是請副部長跟海委會。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:04.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:09.272000+08:00","text":"海委會，請評估「海上影像資料庫」建立方法與內容形式，好不好？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:09.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:16.777000+08:00","text":"回去評估一下，除了高空的、水平的，水平的除了專船之外，是不是也可以考慮其他船舶來提供，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張副主任委員忠龍","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:16.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:17.197000+08:00","text":"可以，沒問題。好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:17.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:22.721000+08:00","text":"副部長，請國防部就「無人艦艇採購模式是否具租購並行可能」提出書面報告，可以嗎？","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:24.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:24.702000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員指示。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:25.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:36.992000+08:00","text":"最後一點點時間，上週在場的陳召委舉辦了海上防衛無人趨勢論壇，我去聽了一小段，我覺得非常精彩，內容非常豐富，不曉得國防部有沒有請人去參考？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:37.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:37.892000+08:00","text":"有沒有請人去蒐集那邊的意見？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:37.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:38.193000+08:00","text":"好像沒有受邀。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:38.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:39.554000+08:00","text":"建議你們……不是「受邀」，沒有受邀也要主動去關心、了解。是。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:39.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:40.614000+08:00","text":"如果你們有人去蒐集這些相關的意見，我是覺得……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:40.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:15:54.085000+08:00","text":"不好意思……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:15:54.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:03.170000+08:00","text":"其實我是持肯定開放的態度，我覺得這個論壇辦得非常好，如果國防部有去多蒐集，民間的聲音也可以參考。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:03.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:06.111000+08:00","text":"如果你們參考覺得還不夠，你也可以提供給我一份，讓我來參考一下，可以嗎？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:07.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:09.378000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:09.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:12.821000+08:00","text":"召委，不好意思，我講錯了……有來，是不是？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:13.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:14.423000+08:00","text":"因為我不知道，不好意思、不好意思！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:15.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:15.504000+08:00","text":"OK，有、有、有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:16.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:16.585000+08:00","text":"有來了嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:17.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:26.816000+08:00","text":"如果你們那個報告，除了內參機敏以外的部分，可以給我們也參考一下，因為我覺得辦得很好，我們希望未來我們國家建軍防衛的方向，應該是軍民各方面同步來進行，好不好？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"徐副部長斯儉","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:26.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:26.856000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:27.356000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:32.213143+08:00","text":"接下來請洪孟楷，洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:32.513143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:36.513143+08:00","text":"請洪毓祥，洪毓祥、洪毓祥委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-13T13:16:36.813143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-13T13:16:39.670286+08:00","text":"請李坤城委員上台質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}