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散會宣錄完畢好我們來介紹在場的委員首先我們喜智傑召委"},{"start":2014.52,"end":2036.768,"text":"我們歡迎委員陳樹葉委員那現在我們來介紹官員數位部我們政次林一進政次數位策略師蔡司長還有數位產業署林署長"},{"start":2046.948,"end":2072.866,"text":"國家傳播委員會拜主委陳崇樹主委綜合規劃處溫處長電台與內容事務處林處長法律事務處蔡處長文化部我們李敬惠政事人文出版師司長楊司長"},{"start":2076.308,"end":2086.535,"text":"公平教育會代主委陳志明服務競爭處胡處長勞動部勞動條件及就業平等師李莊偉職業安全衛生副組長蔡錦棠經濟部商業發展書劉副署長"},{"start":2105.546,"end":2130.475,"text":"智慧財產製作前紅組長財政負稅署林專門委員國庫署檢任集合楊伯亨國科會及技術委員會辦公室邱副執行長內政部合作人民"},{"start":2131.715,"end":2132.495,"text":"以上來介紹好那個師父先確定"},{"start":2160.506,"end":2188.319,"text":"好 我們剛剛所先讀的議事錄請問各位委員有沒有意見好 沒有意見的話我們議事錄就確定那現在本日會議繼續細審新聞媒體與數位平台議價法的草案等四案及數位新聞發展與民主論性法草案等兩案"},{"start":2189.139,"end":2204.644,"text":"以上六案因為以五月一號第一次聯席會完成巡打因此本日直接進行逐條審查但因為有那個那個志傑志傑要大體討論嗎"},{"start":2209.121,"end":2224.832,"text":"好 但因為有委員提議先進行大體討論那就先進行大體討論請登記第一位的喜智傑召委時間3分鐘 好不好謝謝主席 各位同仁"},{"start":2232.809,"end":2251.205,"text":"關於這個議題 事實上本來應該我們所有的新聞媒體都有機會可以分潤這個概念是好的那當然我們也很多本黨跟所有的不同的黨派的委員都有提類似這樣子一個案子"},{"start":2252.188,"end":2280.579,"text":"所以大原者希望說媒體可以有機會可以分到一部分的利潤我想這一個觀念不管是執政黨在野黨大家都可以接受只是說我們要怎麼分潤這個技術上跟立法上就有需要有商榷的空間那我們看到加拿大跟澳洲"},{"start":2281.894,"end":2308.023,"text":"他們通過的媒體議價法是很強硬的要求這個數位平台要把這個利潤強迫的分潤出來那造成的結果呢是MetaFB把澳洲跟加拿大的所有的新聞全部都封鎖"},{"start":2309.963,"end":2332.163,"text":"所以就變成加拿大跟澳洲的人他們只要上這個Meta的平台要看他們的新聞結果都是看不到的這個對於讀者 對於媒體 對於平台就造成了三輸的局面"},{"start":2333.704,"end":2350.266,"text":"所以我們在訂這個法的時候我是建議就是大家真的要三思啦我們很希望媒體可以有機會可以分到利潤但是如果是一定要通過強迫的法案"},{"start":2351.187,"end":2370.41,"text":"恐怕會造成不好的結果造成三輸的局面所以我們也希望說藍白兩個政黨可以考慮其實這個案子在我現在的我們的看法是其實暫時這個法案不要通過不要審"},{"start":2371.704,"end":2393.142,"text":"那當然就是說要怎麼樣分潤呢我們希望速發部可以定一個辦法那這個辦法可能比如說那個Meta或者是這些平台它的樂捐啦樂捐跟強迫這個部分就有很大的"},{"start":2394.426,"end":2421.601,"text":"商榷的餘地啦那他們現在澳洲跟加拿大是強迫他們一定要拿出多少錢來那他們的方式就是那就統統不要啦我也不登你的新聞那我也不會錢給你最後就真的是三輸所以我們也希望說說不可以盡快跟這些平台溝通之前我有聽到平台好像願意 Google好像願意捐兩億嘛"},{"start":2422.898,"end":2437.156,"text":"我不知道現在這個結果還是不是照原來的那個溝通的結果是不是會繼續進行也就是他們樂圈樂圈可以建立慣例可以建立默契"},{"start":2438.787,"end":2461.379,"text":"那他們的態度如果是不樂之圈就會跟澳洲跟加拿大一樣所以我是建議真的是藍白一起來思考這個問題我們要三思啦如果說我們要用硬性規定造成人民我們台灣的人民或者是世界上想要看到台灣的新聞的從不會被封鎖掉"},{"start":2462.659,"end":2478.345,"text":"這個對我們來講是另外一個很大的傷害所以我們主張就是說這個案是不是可以請我們的林國成召委今天大家討論之後有沒有機會這個法案我們就不審"},{"start":2480.615,"end":2500.885,"text":"我想這是一個很沉重的問題我們必須跟我們全國人民交代就是說如果你們在Meta看不到新聞是因為今天立法院的決議我們民進黨基本上不希望看到這樣的結果那希望南白可以深思我們不希望讓"},{"start":2503.709,"end":2531.195,"text":"新聞媒體讓平台讓人民看不到新聞造成一個三思的局面請我們的林國臣召委跟自己黨團或者是跟藍白政黨協商一下我們不希望看到這樣子的結果希望說真的是藍白可以三思謝謝好 謝謝我們許智傑召委現在請歡迎委員花言時間三分鐘"},{"start":2534.309,"end":2534.568,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":2539.542,"end":2562.629,"text":"招委跟各位委員跟關心這個法案的朋友大家好我想我應該算是上一屆最早提出這個就是相關的數位新聞或者是媒體溢價法版本的那還有那個林祖宜委員還有那個林益菁委員上一屆也都有提出那我們的初衷其實就是就我個人來講是民主任性出了問題我們都看到"},{"start":2567.711,"end":2580.386,"text":"因為這個平台的發展所以呢就是生產內容的媒體他沒有辦法在廣告上跟著競爭所以產生就是不管是"},{"start":2582.108,"end":2611.349,"text":"就是說利潤的分潤喔或者是就是沒有辦法盈利喔然後最後造成新聞品質的下降那這個其實是那我們的下一個世代有新新聞工作的記者們喔勞動條件越來越差所以我的版本的名稱會叫做有民主韌性這是一個非常緊急的事情喔那但是現在如果我們看各委員的版本會發現我們的版本之間喔完全沒有共識"},{"start":2612.55,"end":2631.362,"text":"因為呢像我的版本是雙軌制溢價跟基金的雙軌制那有些委員的就只有就是強迫溢價制那有些呢是就是強制稅就是希望這些數位平台強制稅那現在的部分是上一次我們在"},{"start":2632.242,"end":2633.082,"text":"那所以我在想今天兩個問題第一個"},{"start":2662.488,"end":2686.274,"text":"我還是要講說庶發部這個部分跟大家溝通不利啦就是委員們都不知道這幾個月你們做了什麼所以第一個庶發部是不是說明一下你們現在的解方是什麼那我之前一直問庶發部庶發部有告訴我們說你們有在跟媒體溝通現在你們用你們的庶發力庶位力有一個庶位分潤平台那如果真的有一個新的解方的話我很樂意聽到那也願意再給你們一點時間雖然大家已經很焦慮了"},{"start":2691.195,"end":2707.177,"text":"那第二個我也想請就是今天是不是有經濟部的代表或是誰告訴我們就是目前的關稅跟我們現在的這個如果是走強迫溢價制的話是不是或是稅收制會有影響喔那我個人比較是希望從我原來的雙軌制"},{"start":2708.579,"end":2723.625,"text":"改成三軌制喔就是如果樹發部真的有一個數位化新聞的分潤平台的話我覺得是一個好事可是怎麼樣調文化那是不是樹發部要提出來第二個數位化的新聞發展基金是各界的期待"},{"start":2724.045,"end":2749.55,"text":"那只是說基金的來源也許我們可以有一些共同的討論那如何不要讓他覺得就是說被政府控制那但是我們又能夠保證基金的充裕是各界樂捐呢還是等等這方便或者政府是用樂捐等等那第三個就是強迫溢價制我現在比較傾向於這是我自己的版本改成是溢價逃脫的設計那這樣子就會給各界一個空間"},{"start":2752.651,"end":2771.21,"text":"可是我自己這個版本都還來不及把它調文化因為這個事情的變動非常的大喔所以我想請那個 昭偉在進入到主條討論前等一下是不是也請就是書發部講一下你們目前的解方這幾個月是沒有在工作還是有在想解方如果沒有在工作的話"},{"start":2771.63,"end":2786.084,"text":"我個人真的也不能接受但如果你們有在工作有向我之前詢問的新的解方就要讓大家知道那是不是今天適合繼續逐條還是再給你們幾個月的時間以上 謝謝還有關稅的部分是不是也請經濟部講一下好 謝謝 歡迎委員現在請陳樹業委員發言"},{"start":2804.151,"end":2819.247,"text":"好謝謝主席那今天委員會就是進行有關媒體一家法的一個討論那我們知道說現在就是在網路發達的一個時代那很多的民眾閱聽者就是都已經大致上都是透過網路來獲得資訊或者是閱讀這個新聞那這個大型的數位平台"},{"start":2824.492,"end":2830.875,"text":"有提供這個瀏覽者的資訊將媒體的新聞內容無償來轉載那數位平台可以因此獲得巨大的一個廣告利益可是媒體卻沒有獲得分潤導致這個新聞業這個廣告銳減也逐漸在萎縮所以基於這個使用者付費的一個觀念當然我們也希望就是有一個合理的這個媒體溢價"},{"start":2848.323,"end":2868.383,"text":"可是我们也要去思考就是说我们今天通过的这个法令如果是一个强制性的话到底对媒体好还是不好所以我们看到了这个澳洲跟加拿大的一个例子因为这个也都是最近才发生的我们看到加拿大在2023年通过了线上新闻法案"},{"start":2868.963,"end":2887.423,"text":"采取这个集体谈判的模式确保小型媒体也能够从大型平台获得合理的补偿但是我们看到当这个法案一公告Meta跟Google也立刻宣布要封锁加拿大的新闻内容根据加拿大媒体研究机构的报告在Meta实施"},{"start":2888.164,"end":2891.269,"text":"新聞禁令一年後加拿大的新聞參與度下降了42%光是2023年加拿大各地就有36間地方新聞媒體關閉所以我們要去審慎的思考就是說"},{"start":2903.468,"end":2919.445,"text":"这样子的一个结果相信不是我们乐见的对于整个媒体也是一个很大的一个伤害所以我们要去思考说这个法令我们如果贸然通过了如果遭遇到Meta跟Google同样反制的措施的时候我们的媒体"},{"start":2920.366,"end":2926.275,"text":"擋得住這樣子的一個壓力嗎所以我們一定要去好好的思考當這個新聞媒體就是新聞的報導在大型平台被封鎖之後同樣的鄉親和民眾的這個閱聽的一個"},{"start":2936.489,"end":2951.141,"text":"權力也是受害了因為他們沒有辦法很方便的從在網路或者大型平台獲得相關的一個新聞的一個資訊到時候造成的局面就是三叔的一個局面所以我們也希望就是說我們是不是"},{"start":2951.821,"end":2967.113,"text":"要去好好的一個思考當然本席也是支持合理化的一個分配一個分論的一個機制實施這個公共的一個利益那當然是在立法之前我們也要去好好思考是不是有更有效降低對媒體造成衝擊的一個妥善的一個方案我想這樣子才能夠讓我們的媒體產業越來越好"},{"start":2974.179,"end":2984.087,"text":"所以在還沒有一個完善的一個就是準備之前我們希望今天的一個法案我們可以暫緩進入這個逐條然後讓我們讓數位部有更充分的時間何況我們現在更面臨的這個跟美國關稅談判的一個很關鍵的一個時刻如果我們通過了這樣子一個法案在美國他們也認定說這樣子的一個強制媒體溢價是"},{"start":3000.48,"end":3013.092,"text":"不公平的一個貿易障礙所以這個對我們也是會一個雪上加霜的一個狀況所以我們本席在這邊也希望再次的呼籲我們的主席今天我們是不是就暫緩進入主條 謝謝好 謝謝陳樹葉委員現在請林楚英委員發言"},{"start":3031.504,"end":3053.744,"text":"謝謝主席有關於這個媒體溢價法其實在五月的時候我們其實已經進行了相關的詢答但是當時詢答的時候我們也都點出了部分的問題包括當時第一時間就講到有關於這個會不會影響到關稅談判那麼當然這個是一個在最上位上面的問題不過因為今天我看了一下主席所邀請的單位包括數位部NCC還有文化部"},{"start":3055.525,"end":3072.418,"text":"在這裡我針對這個修法我還是有幾點必須要先希望這幾個單位能夠做出回應我們才能夠更有效率的去掌握到底我們修法的方向該如何進行2021年其實在上一屆的時候本席就已經提出了媒體溢價法當時我也說過了對於媒體來講新聞有價但是隨著時間的變遷現在不只是所謂媒體的"},{"start":3078.763,"end":3104.078,"text":"新聞有價 其實資料更有價 大家都知道現在從ChatGTB到Gemini再到所有的這種AI其實它都分免費跟付費付費的話就是可以給予更多的資訊而這個一日新聞接下來就會變成資訊所以首先我要問一下速發布是有關於這個媒體溢價剛剛前面幾位委員都說了 我也就不贅述就是不論是加拿大或者是澳洲都是失敗的"},{"start":3104.818,"end":3130.945,"text":"那麼在這樣失敗的狀況底下這一套法規同時移植入台灣之後數位部是連結現在所有的平台那麼平台的看法會是如何他們可以兇殘的對待澳洲 加拿大直接把我們台灣的新聞是不是也如同同樣的方式把台灣的新聞block起來如果台灣的新聞被block起來的話那麼華文新聞裡面是不是只剩下中國的聲音台灣的新聞會不會沒有被看到而我要強調的是其實現在對很多的媒體來講"},{"start":3134.833,"end":3146.12,"text":"收視率是廣告所以流量也是廣告那所以說當他們的新聞被平台block起來用同樣的方法如法炮製的時候我先提醒一下根據"},{"start":3147.995,"end":3152.998,"text":"現在數位平台所發布的台灣數位媒體與應用行銷協會所講的2024年的數位平台的廣告就高達了636.83億一旦沒有流量這些廣告還在嗎那麼受害的到底是誰所以我覺得這個部分數位部必須要講一下現在跟平台的溝通如何"},{"start":3167.725,"end":3194.29,"text":"接下來我要講的是有關NCC喔基本上我自己媒體出來啦很多媒體對NCC是有非常多的抱怨那就是NCC常常該管的不管管一些其實都是雞毛蒜皮的小事但是我要擔心的是這個法令一旦做下去之後會不會變成形塑另外一個管理媒體的角度因為比如說像這個基金基金的來源到底從哪裡來如果是國家來的話"},{"start":3195.47,"end":3215.841,"text":"那我們不是一直都希望國家的手放開媒體嗎那這個錢又收國家的錢又用國家的錢去分潤的時候這樣對嗎所以這個是一個如果基金的角度我個人也不反對因為我還是希望媒體能夠好平台跟媒體能夠共人共榮共生但是這個基金的來源到底從哪裡來最後一個我要提醒的是文化部"},{"start":3216.821,"end":3221.924,"text":"無論如何現在我們已經沒有一個媒體的實質的管理單位但是請問一下文化部有沒有實質的去了解媒體的需求對媒體來說現在是從平台裡面獲得議價空間比較重要還是用其他的方式扶植媒體我要強調的是以電視台來說的話他們現在跟Google他們上去就有一個很明確的分潤機制那像這個是不是算在媒體議價法裡面的一環這個有沒有被免除"},{"start":3244.477,"end":3261.693,"text":"另外像LINE他也有LINE TODAY跟平面媒體的合作這個算不算溢價的一環這個有沒有免除因為本席來自於媒體這些事情我認為現場的這幾個我點名到的部會應該要好好的說清楚這個法送出去或是這個法在等一下討論的時候才能真的聚焦 謝謝謝謝林楚英委員現在請李昆澤委員花言"},{"start":3277.745,"end":3303.806,"text":"大家好媒體一教法談的是重要的新聞有價的相關的看法那新聞有價看法其實在整個討論的過程裡面我們的重點是在也要討論到新聞媒體從業人員他們相關的勞動條件他們的待遇更重要的是整個要健全整個媒體市場是我們在討論媒體一教法裡面來一個重要的思考的方向"},{"start":3304.366,"end":3328.628,"text":"那我們在討論媒體溢價法的時候也必須要去討論到我們相關的在目前國際局勢的變化關稅的議題以及相關AI多元的發展的這樣的一個趨勢跟方向那我認為我們現階段必須要審慎的來參佐目前的國際局勢的相關的發展的趨勢"},{"start":3330.009,"end":3350.463,"text":"也必須要更廣泛的來凝聚社會的相關的一個共識那另外我們這樣才能夠兼顧新聞媒體的發展以及他們數位平台的這種合理的這樣的一個發展的基礎那社會大眾的整體權益也必須要獲得基本的保障"},{"start":3351.904,"end":3379.566,"text":"我必須要提醒 不能吃金飯亂碰碗我必須要說 在目前國際上是缺少媒體溢價成功的案例那剛才林楚英我也提到重要的媒體的這樣的一個流量也是他們獲利的一個重要基礎但是這樣的一個溢價的過程裡面也造成媒體流量的下降這也是我們必須要去思考的一個基礎"},{"start":3380.367,"end":3400.33,"text":"那當然大家也提到像澳洲、加拿大相關的這種媒體溢價的過程那澳洲是在2021年完成新聞媒體的這樣的一個溢價法但是它沒有指定任何數位平台應該要與新聞事業進行強制的這樣的一個刑殺"},{"start":3401.351,"end":3415.9,"text":"那Meta與新聞媒體出版商的合約也到2024年到期之後宣布他不再跟任何的新聞媒體來續約加拿大也有同樣的狀況加拿大在2023年6月"},{"start":3417.921,"end":3434.603,"text":"完成這個線上新聞法的立法到2024年才完成強制協商的框架的法規的訂定那到目前也沒有任何強制協商的一個案例那其實我們剛才提到流量的問題"},{"start":3435.484,"end":3444.787,"text":"Meta在2023年8月起就停止新聞內容跟相關平台的推播對媒體的數位營運產生劇烈的衝擊我們看加拿大的新聞的媒體機構每天的瀏覽量減少了1100萬次FB跟IG上面的參與度"},{"start":3456.688,"end":3463.973,"text":"減少了85%那212家或大約38的地方新聞媒體現在也已經不再活躍那加拿大競爭局他們雖然也只有Meta的相關新聞是否涉及市場支配權力的這樣的一個濫用也展開相關的調查那其實我們必須要去思考目前的國際案例那"},{"start":3482.344,"end":3504.943,"text":"仍然無法解決新聞媒體跟大型數位平台協商時是處於不利的這個地位這個也會可能討論這個也會引起數位平台者業者的這個相關的抵制那其實我跟林儲英委員的擔憂都是一樣如果我們媒體溢價法強勢的這樣的一個處理"},{"start":3508.584,"end":3531.432,"text":"只怕以後台灣的聲音出不去就是相關的我們台灣媒體的新聞無法在相關的數位平台來展現那國外的數位平台他也不讓台灣的新聞上去但是中國的新聞確實可以上去這對台灣的聲音出不出去是請大家也來思考一個重點以上"},{"start":3532.93,"end":3539.551,"text":"好 謝謝我們李崑澤委員的花言現在請徐護魁委員花言"},{"start":3550.375,"end":3565.414,"text":"謝謝主席各位同仁大家好我想今天討論這個媒體溢價發我想當然這個是一個很謹慎很嚴肅的一個課題那我自己跟楚雲委員一樣我也來自媒體當然我們都關切我們媒體的這個整個的發展"},{"start":3565.874,"end":3589.253,"text":"那對於整個社會的一個貢獻度但是因為目前我們現有的新聞溢價的制度我想對媒體是相當的不見得有利而且我想也會引發一個平台的不一樣的思維那尤其現在目前對整個溢價的狀況新聞基金的一個處理甚至是數位服務稅的一個因應"},{"start":3589.873,"end":3614.294,"text":"那甚至對於我們最重要就是我們閱聽者的一個權益問題我想這是不一樣的面貌那我們目前我們立法院目前也看到了至少有六七個版本那我們要用一個目前仍有在爭議甚至仍在討論的一個版本套用到這些我剛剛提到這幾個議題上面我想顯然不一定能夠滿足所有的一個需求那更何況我想我們在這樣的一個討論的過程裡面"},{"start":3617.196,"end":3634.414,"text":"我們還是期待能夠用一個更謹慎更嚴謹的一個態度來討論這樣的一個新聞媒體的議價的一個制度那所以我想剛剛我們幾位民進黨的委員都有提到就國外來講包含部分的歐盟國家他們所採取的一個新聞連接權的一個問題"},{"start":3637.657,"end":3656.029,"text":"那雖然有助於抑制小型媒體這個盜用新聞內容的一個現象卻無法成功規範新聞大型數位平台的一個角度那尤其像德國他雖然採取彈性付費但也會造成新聞媒體迫於流量必須和Google等大型平台簽訂免費協議的授權協議的造成這個數位平台"},{"start":3661.713,"end":3685.361,"text":"Google為新聞付費那西班牙他們也採取了一個強制付費的一個授權模式但最後Google也退出了這個西班牙市場也造成當地媒體流量效法的一個現象那澳洲在2021年通過新聞媒體溢價法之後Google跟Meta也主動的跟數十家的新聞媒體達成協議每年提供約2億的一個澳幣資金"},{"start":3686.221,"end":3709.375,"text":"但是Meta在2024年3月也改變了政策不再與新聞出版商續約所以我想這部分也擱置到現在那加拿大從2023年通過線上數位法之後承諾每年要捐1億的加幣為期5年但是Meta為了到最後也全面的封鎖一個新聞的內容造成新聞流量"},{"start":3709.835,"end":3738.814,"text":"我想諸如此類許許多多的案例有此可證我想連我們歐美先進國家對這個新聞議價都有仍在存在許多的爭議存在許多這個政府部門跟所謂的一個業者之間的一個衝突點那我想今天也請我們的主席是不是能夠讓我們數位部跟我們相關NCC相關的單位應該再做一個比較嚴謹的一個討論大家形成一個共識之後我想再來推動也避免造成這個多數的一個局面 謝謝"},{"start":3743.211,"end":3747.717,"text":"謝謝習富奎委員的花言現在請晏元之委員花言"},{"start":3759.543,"end":3782.263,"text":"主席 各位同仁今天我們討論的新聞溢價法剛剛聽很多民進黨委員的發言好像不是很贊成這個法但是明明我就看到很多都是民進黨委員的版本所以自己提案然後自己又覺得這個法不適合我就覺得很奇怪所以民進黨的立委應該先表明一下你們立場到底是希望這個法過"},{"start":3784.064,"end":3806.488,"text":"我再發言 不好意思 范議員 不要每次都插人家話不要養成習慣了 不要養成習慣 風度 風度沒關係 你等一下還可以講嘛 我只是說有這個疑問嘛你等一下可以解釋 我也不是在質疑你不用每次都是好像被 都在這邊那種沒風度亂罵人我沒有講錯 我只是說好奇 所以你也可以回應你也可以回應 那我覺得針對這個媒體溢價法是這樣"},{"start":3809.754,"end":3825.373,"text":"兩個部分當然也請那個今天有列席的官員等一下可以說明一下第一個這個法主要訂定的目的是說國外的平台如果有用到國內的新聞的內容的時候他們可以付我們的國內的新聞媒體一部分的費用"},{"start":3826.054,"end":3850.268,"text":"讓我們當然這可以健全我們更讓我們的媒體新聞產業可以更健全也讓我們的新聞產業可以獲利這個是這個初衷其實這個目標是好的目標絕對是好的因為當然天下沒有白吃的午餐不過我覺得官員要回答兩件事第一個是當這個法訂定之後到底這個目標能不能達成法律訂了有法源基礎"},{"start":3851.249,"end":3872.652,"text":"那這個政府會不會去執行會不會協助我們這些新聞媒體去跟國外的平台談判讓他們確實每一年可以給我們這些新聞媒體一筆費用讓他們真的可以獲利執行面的部分政府有沒有會不會去做這個事情有沒有能力做這個事情還有就是在跟國外"},{"start":3873.653,"end":3892.427,"text":"平台談判的時候可能會遇到什麼阻礙會不會因為遇到阻礙就卻步然後導致於法定了之後形成拒文沒有辦法落實這是第一個 官員要回答第二個是因為我看到很多委員目前的版本是要成立一個基金那我對這個成立基金這件事情是有點懷疑理論上應該是"},{"start":3895.869,"end":3914.782,"text":"我們只要協助國外平台跟國內媒體進行一個溝通就好讓國內媒體可以從國外平台那邊拿到錢這是法律訂定的目的可是現在卻是要成立一筆基金然後由政府指派人來管理這筆基金那第一個"},{"start":3916.088,"end":3932.53,"text":"這些人員是怎麼產生然後這個組成之後他根據什麼原則來分配錢給媒體那會不會又造成有一些媒體當時他有內容的產生但是他拿到的錢的比例比別人低因為這個最後被政府控制了"},{"start":3933.271,"end":3946.745,"text":"所以我覺得這個機制可能政府要說明一下這個機制是好的嘛而且這個基金到時候又要用來做別的用途會把媒體本來應該拿到錢一部分拿去做別的用途"},{"start":3948.052,"end":3972.694,"text":"所以不如就是你只要協助溝通就好了或者是說讓我們國內的媒體所組成的那些協會 工會讓他們自己自行協調出一個錢的分配的比例我認為說這才是一個最具體而且能夠直接讓這些媒體獲利的方法那這個部分待會也請兩官也說明一下 謝謝"},{"start":3977.96,"end":3991.889,"text":"好謝謝那個葉言之委員的發言特別跟大家報告王宏威發言完畢我們的大體討論就截止登記"},{"start":3993.63,"end":4012.093,"text":"我知道 我知道就是王宏威花園完了以後登記就截止其他登記的當然要讓你們花園完畢不要緊張啦好 那我們特別跟各位做報告現在請王宏威委員花園"},{"start":4021.932,"end":4035.423,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想我們相關於媒體的溢價法其實討論了非常久那我也必須說我們的媒體產業其實他們也等待非常久"},{"start":4036.977,"end":4057.419,"text":"那大家都知道就是說其實任何一個產業當他有他的智慧財產當他有他的產出的時候那他本來就應該要有合理的報酬跟合理的分潤但是以現在的這個市場實在是太過太過的扭曲"},{"start":4058.32,"end":4087.154,"text":"因為大家也知道我們現在這種大型的數位平台光是在這個廣告收入的部分他就可以拿到六到八成那所以我們這麼辛苦的新聞產業他們所努力的成果卻不能夠能夠分享這個成果所以我覺得我們在立法院有必要要幫他們去做這些法令的修正第二點"},{"start":4088.254,"end":4095.259,"text":"其實我在推動這個法令的時候也有人問我說 欸 宏偉啊你知道現在啊 這個國內的媒體大部分都是綠媒啊然後都在修理我們 那我們幹嘛要幫他爭取"},{"start":4104.725,"end":4131.353,"text":"但是 我們的新聞產業應該 我剛剛講這個前提應該合理分潤的前提它應該是不分黨派 不分藍綠的而且據我所了解我們各個的新聞媒體都非常希望這個法能夠盡快的上路剛才大家特別提到的是沒有錯 包含Google Meta他們都非常非常的強勢"},{"start":4133.713,"end":4139.354,"text":"所以我也有請問過這些媒體的先進我說真的是不分藍綠的我說如果反而我們推動這項法案是有懲罰性的報復的話你們可以覺得還要繼續推動嗎他們幾乎告訴我的答案都是他們認為必須要推動 必須要推動"},{"start":4158.158,"end":4162.602,"text":"所以我必須講 如果我們在這邊變成立法院 變成是Google跟Meta的一個代言人而不去理會我們廣大的媒體產業的聲音 我覺得呢 這是我們的失職第二點 剛才也有一些立委同仁說 那這樣台灣的聲音就聽不到了"},{"start":4178.914,"end":4186.139,"text":"那我想請問即使澳洲跟加拿大確實上路之後那麼這些國際性的數位平台有很強制性的方式請問一下我們看不到澳洲的新聞了嗎我們看不到加拿大的新聞了嗎最近美國加拿大之間的貿易爭議兩個吵得非常厲害請問一下大家因此加拿大就被消音了嗎並沒有啊所以我覺得"},{"start":4209.134,"end":4225.125,"text":"值得報導的所有應該會有的聲音仍然會存在不像大家所講的台灣因此就消聲了所以我還是非常強烈的希望我們這個法令能夠盡快的要有進度"},{"start":4226.326,"end":4227.728,"text":"如果我們都因此而卻步的話我覺得對於我們努力這些廣大努力的媒體產業也好或從業人員也好是相當不公平的事情好 以上謝謝"},{"start":4241.026,"end":4259.722,"text":"好謝謝王宏威委員的花言再度王宏威委員花言完畢之後就是截止登記截止登記現在請張雅玲委員花言這是沒有練錯了"},{"start":4265.653,"end":4292.19,"text":"謝謝主席那我想這個支持新聞有價這個核心理念我想是在場所有人都認同的啦不過我想因為每個人接觸到的媒體可能都略有差異啦剛剛我聽到王宏威委員說他這邊的媒體都非常的支持但我這邊也有聽到媒體其實並沒有那麼的支持所以我想這個部分我也想因為我想請肅發佈待會是不是也可以簡短說明一下回應一下就是說目前我們到底跟媒體不管是電視啊影音啊廣播啦或是"},{"start":4293.01,"end":4311.748,"text":"平面的等等我們現在洽談的狀況到底是怎麼樣子我想也可以讓立法委員們更清楚的知道媒體的態度到底是什麼因為我們自己從新聞上面看到就是說不管是澳洲或加拿大基本都是失敗的尤其是加拿大最新的新聞今天8月5號National Post"},{"start":4312.609,"end":4336.417,"text":"加拿大首相已經提出了他考慮撤回媒體議價法Online News Act所以我想這一定是有他的一些concern因為我們過去也看到了Meta在2023年的8月起就已經停止了新聞內容在相關平台的推播那已經對這個媒體的數位營運產生劇烈的一個衝擊像是加拿大的新聞機構每天瀏覽減少了1100萬次"},{"start":4338.798,"end":4342.801,"text":"FB和IG上的參與度也減少了85%212家或30%的地方媒體已經不再活躍了所以資訊流通被迫中斷強制溢價非但沒有辦法解決新聞產業的困境反而影響了使用者的權益還有新聞的可見性那甚至也會影響到他們的流量那流量就會跟這個廣告"},{"start":4365.154,"end":4383.084,"text":"非常實質的做一些串聯像我們可以看到2024年台灣的數位廣告就有638億所以今天如果要這樣子倉促的去通過的話我認為對於我們的媒體產業反而是一大傷害那同樣的問題其實也發生在澳洲"},{"start":4384.486,"end":4398.124,"text":"剛剛王宏威委員說我們不是還有看到加拿大跟澳洲的新聞嗎但是我必須要說這個就是地方新聞已經不再活躍也就是說相關的一些新聞視角其實是看不見的"},{"start":4399.446,"end":4423.026,"text":"那澳洲其實自己也有講到相關的這些這個機制呢已經讓小型媒體面臨資源排擠所以我覺得這個可能會造成新聞壟斷的問題也會影響到我們收看新聞的自由所以我認為這個是必須要再來審慎的提出這個疑慮讓大家來好好的思考那最後呢因為美國已經把這個東西呢"},{"start":4424.911,"end":4442.986,"text":"這個列為非關稅貿易障礙所以今天我們貿然的通過會不會影響到我們在相關的一些談判我覺得在這個時間點上面也必須再去好好的考慮以及討論那我不知道今天是不是有相關的部會也可以針對這個對於關稅談判上面的影響來做出一個實質的回應 謝謝"},{"start":4450.975,"end":4456.591,"text":"好 謝謝張雅玲委員花言現在請樓庭偉委員花言"},{"start":4466.34,"end":4490.103,"text":"好首先在發言之前呢我還是要譴責一下速發部我想速發部的帶頭大家有目共睹從我們坐在這個站在這個位置呢多次質詢速發部對於新聞溢價他的積極度還有他到底要怎麼樣做配套讓整個媒體從業人員安心到我們在教文委員會對於AIG本法不提出"},{"start":4490.783,"end":4508.38,"text":"炒案甚至是我們之前通過的打詐專法然後對於裁罰各個Meta或者是上架的廣告有一些詐騙的廣告有沒有做裁罰也都沒有積極的一個作為我想速發部的怠惰就是造成整個社會紛亂喔那整個紛紛擾擾大家媒體產業也都很擔心喔"},{"start":4512.904,"end":4533.903,"text":"我想不知道剛剛是哪一位媒體從業人員將這個連署聲明放在我的座位前面那我看了以後我想幫他來把這個相關的內容跟大家一起分享他所提到的是新聞溢價與基金立法行動小組的連署聲明"},{"start":4534.904,"end":4549.08,"text":"他說過去十年多跨國的數位平台也就是Google跟Meta憑藉著科技還有自己的優勢成為了主要的傳播管道進而壟斷了數位廣告的市場那他自己本身不投入新聞的採編跟製作卻長期透過轉載"},{"start":4554.326,"end":4576.825,"text":"那卻沒有對實質的內容生產者給予合理的回饋形成了剝削及不對等的關係台灣新聞媒體因廣告資源大量的外流媒體營收逐年萎縮成為平台被洗奪內容收益的最大受害者"},{"start":4577.526,"end":4588.293,"text":"它根據台北市媒體服務代理商協會對主要媒體的廣告投放的統計可以看到2012年傳統媒體高達的廣告仍有425億"},{"start":4594.361,"end":4598.464,"text":"數位廣告是116億2012年2017年呈現了死亡交叉傳統媒體已經達到了296億數位廣告升到了330億"},{"start":4610.231,"end":4633.644,"text":"2023年持續擴大數位廣告總額來到了610億已經是傳統媒體210億的三倍所以我們看到國外有相對應的一些法規各個國家紛紛立法有的還沒有產生問題有的已經產生問題"},{"start":4637.884,"end":4664.351,"text":"我們更期許述發布對於已經產生問題的我們要怎麼樣去將這些國外發生的問題來收攏來讓我們國內在實施這樣子的法令的過程當中能夠有更加的一個施行來讓這個媒體溢價跟平台跟使用者能夠達到三贏當然我認為今天"},{"start":4665.651,"end":4688.735,"text":"在這個逐條討論的過程中我們應該要及時廣益我們應該要想辦法讓這個法能夠更加的完善來造成三贏那所以我也非常的期待待會的逐條討論能夠有這樣子的方式那我最後要講的是去年10月14日台北市報業商業同業工會中華民國衛星廣播電視業事業商業同業工會中視"},{"start":4692.856,"end":4705.52,"text":"民視台視發表他們媒體的共同聲明希望禁訴立法根據今天文化部的報告也寫到收集平面媒體業的立法意見報業雜誌業者均認為需要立法"},{"start":4710.282,"end":4733.243,"text":"立法已經共識了那我們更應該加速的討論加速的進行來讓這個法規能夠更加的完善來讓我們的台灣媒體跟平台還有使用者能夠善贏我們一起加油謝謝樓庭偉委員的花言現在請最後一位我們洪孟楷委員花言"},{"start":4744.015,"end":4765.225,"text":"主席各位委員同仁其實再次感謝了我想今天特別要來主條來審查我們的所謂的新聞媒體溢價法其實最主要這一個法令已經討論了蠻多次了我記得在第11屆我們剛會期剛開始的時候其實已經就有講過我們重點在於核心精神是媒體有價 內容有價 新聞有價"},{"start":4768.446,"end":4789.418,"text":"這樣的一個核心精神我相信是所有人大家都可以共同能夠接受的而因為過去這幾年社群媒體平台的強勢以及它的通路的一個資訊的一個壟斷或說資訊的一個完整性也造成說媒體跟新聞常常會被借用然後在這個社群媒體平台上面來去做一個發布"},{"start":4791.679,"end":4804.769,"text":"但是新聞從業人員或是媒體從業人員卻沒有辦法因此而得到他應有的一個合理的報酬我想我們都希望能夠對於媒體有價內容有價新聞有價這件事情來去做一個主張"},{"start":4806.26,"end":4827.052,"text":"怎麼樣能夠達成一個平衡跟共識其實更重要我們很多委員剛剛我聽您聽他相關版本其實也都一樣回歸一個概念還是希望共榮共好共存不管是社群媒體平台也好或者是我們的這個新聞媒體平台其實我們都希望這兩方的"},{"start":4829.187,"end":4852.476,"text":"產業能夠越來越好而因為社群平台它主要是跨國的一個企業也因此在這個過程裡面我們當然希望每一個國家都能夠因地制宜來去做一個合理的判斷跟合理的檢視游委員剛剛有提到不管是加拿大不管是澳洲的例子但本席也要特別提出來以現在有看到就是說澳洲的部分它"},{"start":4853.436,"end":4873.21,"text":"澳洲模式的三大優點處理的過程可以比較明確而且迅速不需要經過不確定的法律角力或是訴訟法競爭法的一個訴訟或是透過多階段的協商程序來促使談判的功能更加的卓越以及各階段的協商如果最終都沒有辦法"},{"start":4873.69,"end":4900.308,"text":"成功的話可以提交強制仲裁由公正的第三方做最終報價的仲裁法來決定數位平台應該給予新聞媒體的授權金額所以縱觀我們現在大家都已經有其他國家都已經有往前推升的這樣子的一個法令我們也可以參考就成功的一個模式跟案例來去因應對於我們台灣對我們中華民國的這個"},{"start":4901.897,"end":4926.549,"text":"媒體議價法來去做一個審視但最重要的真的還是回歸新聞媒體跟數位平台在議價的能力不對等一個情況其實我們都已經看到了因為不對等的一個議價能力也因此我們現在所推的這樣的一個法令其實就是要完整平衡議價的地位並且健全市場還有最重要是保障民眾知的權利"},{"start":4927.569,"end":4955.091,"text":"剛剛也有委員提到啊會不會因為這樣子的一個溢價法而造成說劣幣驅逐良幣而促使我們想要看到的新聞反而沒有辦法看到其實這反而是有點倒因為果說實在如果我們現在放任現在的狀況持續下去的話這才會變成是內容農場的文章或者是標題殺人式的文章持續地產出因為追求點閱率或是追求流量的情況下"},{"start":4955.751,"end":4981.919,"text":"反而促使內容的內容的這個生成者或者是說媒體從業人員他沒有辦法有良好的環境資源來去針對新聞內容媒體來去做一個產出所以要讓新聞媒體內容有一個優質的市場持續的來產出我想還是要有一定的合理的比例合理的分論以及合理的報酬讓"},{"start":4983.84,"end":5010.726,"text":"社群媒體平台跟新聞媒體都能夠共榮共好共存我想這是我們一貫的主張跟立場我們一起加油希望今天能夠進入到主條的時候各位委員能夠多聽一下大家不同的意見我們去求同存異求同存異啦真的能夠好好的讓今天這部法令有一個新的階段的進展以上 謝謝"},{"start":5012.867,"end":5027.374,"text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員的花言現在所有大體討論委員登記花言完畢那現在我們請主管機關我們數位部您正次來三分鐘說明"},{"start":5039.564,"end":5053.154,"text":"感謝各位委員那速發部這邊做簡短的說明三點第一點就是如同剛才許多委員所說的這個強制溢價法利益良善但是在"},{"start":5054.134,"end":5074.93,"text":"實心上有他摯愛難行之處那也如同剛才那個張雅琳委員所講的我剛才也收到一個訊息就在加拿大的昨天事上就相當於我們今天加拿大總理已經公開發表說他們要考慮撤除加拿大的Online News Act就是加拿大的媒體溢價法那"},{"start":5076.151,"end":5102.369,"text":"第二點就是說我們述發部認為很積極的想要處理這件事情所以我們在今年已經跟國科會申請了一個那個經費我們在製作一個台灣優質媒體共同分潤平台我們希望透過統一訂閱聯合勸募跟自動分潤的機制讓我們可以"},{"start":5103.49,"end":5118.832,"text":"那個讓所有的媒體能得到合理的收入就是訂閱的收入那簡單的來講就是說我們是那個會建立一個機制然後讓大家所有那個看新聞媒體的人"},{"start":5120.574,"end":5137.174,"text":"第一個他會就是做聯合訂閱就是說如果參加這個機制每個月基本上是付300塊台幣就相當於以前我們訂報紙每個月就300塊台幣然後接下來會依照每一個人的點閱數量把這個300塊台幣分給不同的媒體"},{"start":5138.135,"end":5162.889,"text":"那另外一方面我們也積極的在跟Meta還有Google在跟他們協商希望他們捐款捐款納入這個機制那我們這個機制就是說現在正在籌劃正在規劃的階段但是我們已經找了十幾家台灣的媒體去進行初步的溝通包含中央社等等那目前的回應是相當的正面那"},{"start":5164.196,"end":5177.946,"text":"我們另外我們也去找了Meta跟Google講這個idea那他們也覺得說這個應該是一個可行的方式那我們非常希望說我們台灣既然是一個數位強國我們就可以用數位科技的方式用那個"},{"start":5179.298,"end":5204.435,"text":"用那個商業模式的方式幫我們台灣的媒體解決這個困境那第三點就是說我們速發部希望能爭取到三到五個月的時間讓我們有更多的時間去跟媒體溝通去跟數位平台溝通以及更跟政府其他的部門溝通因為我們這個法案事實上牽涉到"},{"start":5206.305,"end":5222.936,"text":"兩個產業第一個是數位平台產業數位平台產業是我們速發部主責的這我們責無旁貸但是另外一方面還牽涉到媒體產業那媒體產業在平面媒體方面主責的單位應該是文化部然後在"},{"start":5224.373,"end":5242.412,"text":"廣播電視媒體方面現在發照跟監管的是NCC那事實上在加拿大這個他們的媒體議價法的主責單位是加拿大那個文化遺產部那在澳洲的話是澳洲相當於他們的公平交易委員會"},{"start":5243.913,"end":5264.993,"text":"那我們並不是說我們要推責任而是說因為這件事情牽涉到很多的部會我們也必須要跟行政院其他的部會進行溝通所以我在這邊懇求各位委員能給我們就是到年底的時間讓我們更有時間去發展這個平台然後跟各方"},{"start":5266.894,"end":5287.184,"text":"關係者做更多的溝通然後等到我們比較明確之後我們看是需不需要立法因為我們現在這個機制事實上不一定要立法我們用科技的方式去解決這個問題的話不一定需要立法那但是如果說到時候大家覺得說還是要立法的話那我們也都會配合而且會樂觀其成謝謝好 謝謝我們林政次"},{"start":5293.018,"end":5296.425,"text":"那個NCC業務也是三分鐘"},{"start":5304.105,"end":5331.767,"text":"主席各位媒體朋友那NCC這邊大概表達兩個方塊的意見第一個方塊是整體而言NCC支持性很有價但我們也是認為說需要在相關配套完備之下才後續進行進一步討論那第二個區塊是回應剛剛林委員有提到說這個目前的版本裡頭涉及到基金的這一塊跟"},{"start":5333.368,"end":5349.92,"text":"NCE所主管的廣電事業相關有什麼關係這邊跟各位報告衛廣法第五條跟物廣法五條之一都有規定黨政軍必須要退出媒體黨政軍不得投資媒體"},{"start":5350.68,"end":5370.255,"text":"所以在基金的部分會有兩個議題要關心第一個基金的來源如果有政府資金投入這個是會相對會是有問題的是個疑慮那另外基金的管理如果是有政府單位的角色參與這個也一樣是會有這個疑慮的那以上簡單報告好 謝謝陳主委那現在"},{"start":5379.7,"end":5396.245,"text":"現在大體討論還有主管機關都已經發言完畢現在進行逐條審查請先讀條文如果有修正動議以協商到該條文的時候再行先讀"},{"start":5397.405,"end":5416.415,"text":"現在請先讀條文時間大概跟各位委員報告差不多四十分鐘到一個小時所有的條文都練完以後我們才進行逐條討論以上跟各位委員做說明跟報告現在請議事人員先讀條文"},{"start":5449.09,"end":5476.132,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案名稱新聞媒體與數位科技平台公平發展法委員林柱英等提案名稱新聞媒體與數位平台一家法委員林一錦等提案及委員范雲等提案名稱數位新聞發展與民主任性法委員羅廷偉等提案及委員王宏威等提案名稱數位媒體與數位平台強制一家法台灣民眾黨黨團提案等四個提案第一張張明總則"},{"start":5479.96,"end":5496.975,"text":"台湾民众党党团提案第一条为促进数位科技平台产业与新闻媒体产业平衡发展建立双边对等之协商与中台机制确立和公平合理分伦以健全新闻媒体环境维护媒体第四权之坚硬度公然特定本法"},{"start":5498.016,"end":5515.062,"text":"為零除因等提案第一條為促進數位科技平衡發展確保新聞媒體業與數位平台產業分熱機制公平合理建立雙邊協商對領結構健全新聞內容產製環境維護大眾知識的權利特制定本法"},{"start":5515.842,"end":5543.641,"text":"委員領域議員提案第一條會建立新聞媒體產業與數位平台產業間合理分辨機制特定本法以其維持自由優質新聞環境強化公共討論及民主問責委員領域議員提案第一條會促進產業數位產業平衡發展解決協商立案不對等維持自由且多元知識新聞媒體強化公共討論及民主問責無當制的權利特定本法"},{"start":5544.722,"end":5566.898,"text":"委員范瑩等提案第一條為促進數位科技與新聞媒體業之平衡及進行發展推動產業共同合作建立多方協商對等結構以強化民族韌性維護公共討論與民族混合價值進行新聞內容產製與勞動環境特質應變法委員汪洪威等提案第一條為促進數位平台與新聞媒體產業平衡發展建立對等協商機制"},{"start":5567.9,"end":5574.434,"text":"維持自由且多元之新聞媒體強化公共討論及民主問責維護大眾職德群特定的法"},{"start":5576.462,"end":5600.407,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案 委員領警等提案及委員範疑等提案第二條 本法所稱主管機關為數位法人部本法規定事項涉及其他部會執執長者由主管機關會同各該部會辦理之委員領處刑等提案第二條 本法所稱主管機關為數位法人部本法規定事項涉及其他部會執執長者由主管機關商同各該部會辦理之"},{"start":5601.874,"end":5622.106,"text":"委員羅廷偉等提案及委員王宏威等提案第三條本法之主委及官委數位發展部台灣民眾藍黨團提案第三條本法所稱新聞媒體也是指聘僱專業編輯人員定期產製原創性新聞報導並透過報紙、雜誌、期刊、電視廣播、網際網路等傳播媒介將新聞內容傳播給公眾之公司發展的民團體非營利組織"},{"start":5632.506,"end":5645.241,"text":"委員林楚穎等提案第三條本法所爭新聞媒體也需同時符合下列各款條件一依法成立至公司法人3號或人民短締二聘僱專業編輯人員定期產製原創性新聞報導並發行於網際網路前項媒體業包含報紙雜誌電視廣播"},{"start":5653.05,"end":5680.295,"text":"網路媒體委員林玉璟等提案第三條本法存新聞媒體也實質透過報紙雜誌電視廣播網路媒體等媒介從事新聞報導並聘用專業編輯人員定期產製有關地方全國或國際事務原創新聞報導之公共廣電公司法人人民團體或非營利組織溫多廳會等提案及委員網紅會等二十等提案第四條具備相應各款條件之新聞媒體得以書面向主管局官申請溢價登記"},{"start":5680.915,"end":5699.292,"text":"1.依法成立之公司商業人民團體或財團發展2.以服務國內業聽勇為主要目的之本國媒體3.併有專業編輯團員或定期產製有關地方全國或國際事務之原創信息文報導8.行為國際網路市二分之一以上之原創信息文報導4.有"},{"start":5701.373,"end":5727.752,"text":"專業人員負責編輯物年營業及捐款收入合理達新台幣1,000萬元以上前期利用完後至第五款已申請前12個月或前一會計年度登記至朱萬圈對第一符合第一項各款之新聞媒體應存於預價登記並不亂公佈存於登記後持續半年以上未能具備第一項各款條件者朱萬圈的廢紙其登記准許登記之新聞媒體得相"},{"start":5728.593,"end":5738.063,"text":"依第五條公告的數位平台經營者以書面提出議價請求委員範疑等提案第三條第一項及第一"},{"start":5739.619,"end":5746.224,"text":"第一項第一款第三條本法用詞定義如下新聞媒體也適時併顧專業新聞採訪或編輯人員定期含有關地方全國或國際事務及原創新聞報導並發行網際網路公司法案三號人民團體或非利組織包含報紙雜誌電視廣播網路媒體"},{"start":5763.475,"end":5783.562,"text":"民眾黨團提案第四條本法所生新聞媒體工作者是指受故意簽調所生新聞媒體業從事新聞採訪編輯或為提供具新聞價值之資訊於眾促進公共事務討論以監督民眾而從事之新聞採訪行為者委員林英景等提案第四條本法所生新聞媒體工作者需具備以下資格"},{"start":5785.394,"end":5789.796,"text":"1.訴故於前條所稱新聞媒體業從事新聞採訪或編輯2."},{"start":5789.796,"end":5812.546,"text":"未提供具新聞價值資訊語重或未促進公共事務討論以監督政府而常態從事新聞採訪行為委員發言等提案第三條第一項第二款第三條新聞媒體工作者受聘於前項新聞媒體業從事新聞採訪或編輯或未提供具新聞價值資訊語重未促進公共事務討論以監督政府而常態"},{"start":5813.727,"end":5826.622,"text":"從事新聞採訪行為者然後民眾黨團提案第五條本法組成數位科技平台也需同時服務下列各款條件依中華民國境內使用者達顯著數量並與中華民國"},{"start":5829.313,"end":5856.73,"text":"領域市場為商業市場二與數位科技平台轉戰利用新聞媒體業之原創新新聞報導全部部分不限於標題內容後圖片為林錦的提案第四條第一項同台灣民眾黨黨黨提案第二項前項第一款所稱顯著數項之數額由主管機關已辦法定之由人民團體法成立之職業團體其會員符合前項定義者是為本平台之數位平台業"},{"start":5858.072,"end":5881.493,"text":"回應林益靜的提案第五條本法促進數位平台經營者需同時符合現在根本與台灣中華民國境內使用的打線度數量並以台灣市場為一例管道與數位平台轉載利用新聞媒體以致原創性新聞報導全部恢復不限於標題內的文或圖片第二項第三項同林柱欽所提及之第四條第二項"},{"start":5882.799,"end":5908.148,"text":"及第三項為羅廷維等提案第二條本法尺寸數位平台之一第五條第一項第二款鎖定方式是檢視散佈或散導或導引使用者至新聞媒體線上報導內容之網站或其他線上服務本法尺寸數位平台經營者之直接或間接控制前項數位平台之經營而有下來行營之一者亦於我國領域內設立商業據點而未於我國領域內"},{"start":5910.849,"end":5933.795,"text":"設立商業據點但有事實主任於我國具有實質觀念前向第二款所稱之實質觀念只有下列情形之一與我國領域內使用者達顯著數量二以我國領域內使用者為其數位平台營業活動之實質目標前向第二款是認定應所著該數位平台及其行銷交易或使用者服務之實"},{"start":5934.635,"end":5962.749,"text":"所使用之文字、語言、貨幣、伙碼、頂級、網域名稱或使用者對商品或服務之可行性等情況我國理念為設立商業據點之數位平台經營者自應指定我國境內居住之自然人或我國境內設有固定營業場所之營利事業為代理人代為處理本法所定事務委員範疑等提案第三條第一項第三款及第二項第三條數位"},{"start":5963.849,"end":5986.625,"text":"服務提供者指中華民國境內使用者達顯示素項並以中華民國領域內市場為商業市場並符合下一個條件之一於數位平台轉載新聞媒體發布於網際網路之原創性新聞報導全部或一部不限於報導標題文字圖片照片聲音影像的使用新聞媒體發布於網際網路之原創性新聞報導全部或一部不限於"},{"start":5987.986,"end":6000.967,"text":"報導標題、文字、圖片、照片、聲音、影像,用以訓練深層是人工智慧者。第一項所徵檢查,顯示出項有篡機關令之違法方案等提案。第二條通委員盧廷偉等提案。"},{"start":6005.269,"end":6025.881,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第6條分發所稱經公告之數位科技平台經營的市值具備下列個案來臨並經主管居然公告之數位科技平台經營者以其最終控制直接或間接控制與全球網站或線上服務前12個月或前一塊季年度平均月活月使用者達合計達"},{"start":6027.802,"end":6046.121,"text":"打10億人以上或同於7000我國境內平均越活越使用者合計達1000萬人以上與數位科技平台以轉載方式利用新聞媒體發布與網際網路之報導內容或利用報導標題之全部或一部或報導中少數文字圖片照片縮圖聲音影像畫面之轉載或載入"},{"start":6048.223,"end":6069.757,"text":"三位與新聞媒體簽訂有關其報導內容協議者,其對國內之新聞業永續發展有顯著貢獻。主管機關依據傾向公告時,應註明該經營者是用本法制數位科技平台定義或並應於至少三十日前通知該數位科技平台經營者,可以陳述意見機會。"},{"start":6079.184,"end":6103.435,"text":"舉辦聽證程序,主管局員非有正常理由,不會拒絕。在我國境內,為涉有商業據點,是經公告數位科技平台經營者,因知公告期十日內向主管局員申報,只經我國境內居住自治海南或我國境內涉有互聯營業場所的營地事業委代理人及下列代理人之行,以名稱及營地事業統一編號和地址聯絡電話及"},{"start":6106.315,"end":6119.16,"text":"電子郵件信箱三負責人、姓名及身份、同意、編號或護照號、碼式、代理期限及代理凡額物其他經營主管機關指定事項第一項任意條件確定不再存在於數位科技平台經營者主管機關的廢棄值"},{"start":6121.451,"end":6136.804,"text":"委員會審議人提案第六條文化遵循經營公告之數位平衡經營的設置局被下列各管條件並經主管局方公告之數位平衡第一管及第三管內容同行命中央提案第二管與數位平衡已轉載方式利用新聞媒體發布與網際網路之報導內容獲盡利用"},{"start":6141.107,"end":6167.556,"text":"報導標題之全部或一部或報導之中少數文日、圖片、照片、縮圖、影像、畫面之間短載或載錄、無人機場等這些主流項出產機關依據前項公告之因註明該經營者施用本法則數位平台經營品至少至少於三十日前通知該數位平台經營者給予層數據鑑決數位平台經營者於接獲前項通告之得請求出產機關於請條公告之一行政團規範舉辦"},{"start":6169.816,"end":6192.941,"text":"聽證整齊主管機關非有障礙不能拒絕第三項請讓我以我國境內涉及商業平衡是數位前提因此公告其實施另一項主管機關申報後來讓臺灣民眾黨團提案委員羅廷文等提案第五項具備涉及客戶環境條件及侵入主管機關公告是數位平衡經營者應依本法規定與提出依價請求之登記新聞媒體經營協商"},{"start":6195.714,"end":6207.891,"text":"控制者直接或間接控制全球網站或線上服務前12個月或前一塊錢年度平均月活月活月使用者達數十億人以上或同期間我國境內"},{"start":6209.159,"end":6234.241,"text":"平均越活躍的使用者合計台一件萬人以上與數位平台以轉載方式利用新聞媒體發布與網際網路報導能夠僅利用標題全部或一部報告中至少數圖片照片縮圖聲音影像畫面之簡短轉載或載入不論其長遠基礎與具備前條第一項登記資格的新聞媒體一家能力顯不長但是尚未利用藉由與新聞媒體有關其報導"},{"start":6236.181,"end":6252.269,"text":"內容之協議對於國內新聞業永續發展提供顯著影響前一項公告應注明該經營者適用本法之規定是數位平台第一項公告應於三十日前通知預計公告是數位平台經營人並給予全屬意見決定經公告且在我國領域內"},{"start":6253.77,"end":6282.087,"text":"設有商業據點之數位平台經營者自公告期十日內一日向主管居然申報依第二條第五項指定之代理人及下一代理人之均依名稱及代引力事業統一法案二地址電網絡電話及電子郵件信箱簽負責人姓名及統一編號或護照碼是代理人其間依代理法案五其他基因屬管居然指定事項依項內應條件確定不再存在之數位平台經營者屬管居然得廢止之"},{"start":6285.492,"end":6310.883,"text":"委員王宏威等提案第五條具備相應付款條件已經準原公告是數位平台經營者依依本法規定以及注意下請求是登記新聞媒體經營前章依其是對中空或直接或間接供應區全球網站或線上服務前12個月或前一會計年度月平均活躍達數十億人以上或是同一期間我今年月平均月活躍使用人數達1000萬人以上與數位平台轉戰利用新聞媒體發布與網際網路報道能獲盡利用"},{"start":6315.845,"end":6342.195,"text":"報導標題全部或一部或報導中,是少數文字、圖片、照片、縮圖、聲音、影像、畫面之間的軟或摘錄,無論其場合皆屬之。3.與具備前途第一項登記資格之新聞媒體一家年歷前不相當。三,為藉由與新聞媒體有關報導資料,對國內新聞業永續發展提供顯著的影響。4.前項公告應注明該建議者適用本法規定是數位並覽。第一項公告應於30日前。"},{"start":6342.975,"end":6361.527,"text":"通知預計公告自數位平坦經營者並給予陳述預計的資訊新公告前在我國領域內未設有商業據點自數位平坦經營者自公告起時內應向主管間申報依第二條第五項指定知識代理人及下列代理人資訊民政及營利事業統一編號"},{"start":6362.932,"end":6376.243,"text":"地址、聯絡、電話及地址、郵件、信箱、附註、姓名及身份證、統一編號或附註號碼是代理期間及代理房屋其他競逐玩家所執行的事項第一項任意條件確定不再存在數位平台競逐玩家得廢止之"},{"start":6378.952,"end":6407.983,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨行提案第二章張明數位新聞發展基金維林井等提案及委員放映等提案第二章數位新聞發展及民主人性基金臺灣民眾黨黨行提案第七條未穩健新聞媒體發展健康優質新聞環境主管基金因設置數位新聞發展基金以下稱數位基金並依預算法第21條規定辦理是維林井等提案第七條健全新聞媒體發展主管基金因設置數位發展基金"},{"start":6409.434,"end":6433.625,"text":"及民族人性基金加徵數位發展基金為預算法第四條第一項第二款隨性特種機檢控數位基金之財源如下依依經公告之數位平台其營銘年替不本地廣告年度營業有百分之五國內外公立私立機構團體法人或監控之財產但不包括大陸地區人民法人團體或其他機構之捐贈"},{"start":6434.665,"end":6454.747,"text":"基金知識及社會主管局院依依下列目的應用數位基金第三條組成英文媒體研製發展與輔助第四條新聞媒體工作者資產發展與輔助通訊傳播相關資統計及研究是為基金自保管運用 其他有助於達成本法目的之業務"},{"start":6456.673,"end":6481.527,"text":"委員泛應等提案第四條為經營新聞媒體制發展深化新聞媒體產製內容維護並強化民主人心公共討論與民主問責機制促進一層數位新聞發展系民主人心基金下升新聞網站經濟台灣民眾討論中央第八條數位基金制裁判如下依經公告制數位科技平台業每年一期主管新聞核定公告制提撥基金二國內外公司機構"},{"start":6483.77,"end":6499.157,"text":"團體或個人之捐贈3.受贈收入4.本金支支起5.政府編列預算之捐贈與補助6.期待有關收入委員放映等提案第5條新聞任性基金代言如下依經公告是數位服務提供者每年提撥本地廣告"},{"start":6499.697,"end":6525.792,"text":"年度一頁額是百分之二的社會收入三本基金是自行收市其他有關收入發明中央黨的提案第九條數位基金之用途如下一補助新聞媒體業原創性內容產製經費二補助傳統新聞媒體產業數位轉型之經費三補助新聞媒體國際交流之經費四補助新聞媒體工作者改善勞動之條件之機會五管理及總統之資助六"},{"start":6526.312,"end":6539.087,"text":"其他有關支出委員範圍員等提案第六條新聞內應基金是用於無下除第一款為補助新聞媒體內容產製經費第二款是第五款同台灣民眾黨法輪提案"},{"start":6541.122,"end":6559.728,"text":"提案第10條數位基金應設立數位新聞發展基金管理委員會下生委員會辦理下一事項本基因1本基因運用事項之審議2本基因操作策略計劃在2003本基因財務報告及盈虧撥補之審議是加官本基因之管理運用及公報事項委員會至委員11至"},{"start":6562.489,"end":6590.758,"text":"13.其中一人為召集人由委員互選至其餘委員由主管居然指派相關業務單位主管或聘任學者專家、新聞媒體業工會及工會團體代表請向聘任委員其中學者專家、工會及工會團體代表人數不可少於委員總人數十分之三及聘期為三年兩年其滿得需聘之需聘內其內因故改聘其聘期至原委員聘期屆滿至日為止委員理應請人提案第八條"},{"start":6591.978,"end":6598.864,"text":"為管理數位基金設置數位發展及民主人性基金委員會,加上管理委員會,辦理下一事項。1."},{"start":6598.864,"end":6600.845,"text":"數位基金運用是這樣是誰?2."},{"start":6600.845,"end":6603.507,"text":"數位基金操作策略計劃是何?3."},{"start":6603.507,"end":6607.11,"text":"數位基金財富報告是誰?4."},{"start":6607.11,"end":6611.013,"text":"其他有關數位基金管理運用及公報設想是何?5."},{"start":6611.013,"end":6613.175,"text":"管理委員會是委員5."},{"start":6613.175,"end":6616.417,"text":"主管居然要求有關情況代表,學者,專家及社會公關人組成。"},{"start":6617.398,"end":6633.545,"text":"第三項,請向平安市委員、學資專家及社會工作人員、人事部的第一委員總論出身分證及任性別不得少於委員總書的身分證,後段同台灣民主黨的立案。委員發言人提案第七條,新聞任性基金社"},{"start":6634.873,"end":6662.08,"text":"數位發展暨民主人性經營因社管理委員會及下層委員會辦理下列事項第一款至第四款為新聞任性及僅其餘兩同委員另一件人提案管理委員之委員是一人至十人其中一人為召集人其尤其主管居安指定一名次長兼任之其餘委員由主管居安就下列各款人員兼派至一有關居安代表二相關領域學者參加學者三社會工人四社會新聞媒體業之工"},{"start":6663.06,"end":6689.231,"text":"會計公會團體代表請向您併置委員其中需求專家、社會公務人士、公會、公務團體代表人數不得少於四分之三另一性別不得少於委員總數之三分之一併齊為兩年期滿的需併齊併齊內因故改併者其併齊致遠併委員藉其藉盲之為致臺灣民眾黨長提案第十一條委員會任務如下依數位基金收支保管及運用之審議而數位基金"},{"start":6689.791,"end":6714.907,"text":"年度預算及決算是審議三 數位基金運用執行情形是考核數位基金設置為基金重要規章是審議五 其他有關事項二 委員定性等提案第十一條 管理委員會任務五 本基金收支保管及運用是審議二 本基金年度預算及決算是審議三 本基金運用執行情形是考核 其他有關事項三 民眾委員長提案第十二條 委員會會議有召集人召開並"},{"start":6716.028,"end":6737.045,"text":"擔任主席必要時的召開臨時會議均由召集人召集至召集人應募部門出席時指定由其指定委員依然待之委員臨時提案第九條管理委員會會議由主任委員召集並擔任主席主任委員應募無法執行事務時由其指定委員依然待之委員臨時提案第十條管理委員會是執行秘書委員由主任委員召"},{"start":6737.725,"end":6765.991,"text":"只拜人間認知主任委員之命參觀會晤其餘所需工作人員出管區管縣人間派避免得事業務需要聘用一人至五人臺灣民眾委員長提案第十三條新聞媒體及新聞媒體工作者得向數位基金申請補助前項申請補助是要件誰應誠信其其他規定由主管區管另一辦法定義之違定基金等提案第十三條符合第三條及第四條定義之新聞媒體及新聞媒體工作者得向數位基金"},{"start":6767.191,"end":6786.439,"text":"請向申請補助市要件審議程序由中央集團定理辦法定制委員範圍等提案第八條新聞媒體及新聞媒體公路的向新聞人信基金申請制第二項農台台灣民眾黨黨團提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十四條稅經收支保管及運用制相關法由中央集團人員定制"},{"start":6787.319,"end":6809.959,"text":"委員第一集提案第十二條其他關於數位基金是組成運用及管理由專案機關定義辦法定制委員範圍等提案第九條新聞人力基金是所持保管及運用辦法由專案機關主管及管理定制檔案中央檔案提案第十五條數位科技平台與新聞媒體業經營醫藥檔等公司的得檢清或免除第七條第一項是提撥數額請教醫藥達證公司的"},{"start":6812.741,"end":6833.386,"text":"資格認定程序比例及其他相關事項有助管理項匯總有關區管理項另一方法定制臺灣民眾黨黨團委員林益靜等提案及委員范瑩等提案第三章張明一甲委員林初英等提案第二章張明一甲臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第十六條新聞媒體就原創新的新聞內容與數位科技平台轉載並"},{"start":6834.574,"end":6856.349,"text":"且影響數位廣東收益部分與數位不利平台也進行議價協商新聞媒體也進行傾向議價協商需向本機關提出議價之請求等於第一項議價協商之申請程序進行行事程序及其他應遵循事項由主管及管理領執委員處應等提案及委員領域等提案第五條例"},{"start":6857.25,"end":6884.367,"text":"新聞媒體也得就原創性新聞內容與數位平台存在且影響數位廣告數位與數位平台業績協商第二項及第三項內容均與台灣民主黨黨提案相同委員範疑等提案第十條新聞媒體也得就原創性內容與數位服務提供者搜尋利用取材生成且影響其數位廣告受益者與數位服務提供者進行影響其他第二項及第三項內容均與台灣民主黨黨提案相同"},{"start":6886.866,"end":6905.937,"text":"提案第十七項主管局院接獲新聞媒體業資請求應就請求內容以書面告知請求依加之數位科技平台經營者數位科技平台經營者接獲選項項指一與三之內答復主管局院並依選項規定登記依加之新聞媒體就其請求協商諮詢及其他交易件"},{"start":6907.438,"end":6929.755,"text":"符合誠實信用方式經營一家企業為零除因人體案第六條書案就案切換前條新聞媒體也是請問人家應就請教內容以書面告知及其新聞一家之事為憑證書為憑證結果請向告知應於三十內達部主管員並應前條規定與登記一家之其新聞媒體就其其他是授權金及其他在意犯以符合誠實信用方式經營一家"},{"start":6930.795,"end":6944.371,"text":"維林經營人提案第十五條第一項同台灣民主黨和第十條第一項沒有第二項據維林所提第六條第二項相同維蘆廷文人提案第六條經公告是數位平台經營者就"},{"start":6945.972,"end":6962.68,"text":"請條第一項第二款轉載利用簡短轉載或載入英語登記新聞媒體就其請求協商之授權及其他交易方式,以或繩之用之方式經營一家協商。完成協商協商者通報應向主人和申報所締結之一家協商。"},{"start":6964.127,"end":6978.537,"text":"有關收集經濟協議以一定收集金額加一定比例廣告收入為之,在技術可行發展年金得協議允許新聞媒體在社會平台轉載報導中自行刊播廣告,替代給付一定比例廣告收入"},{"start":6979.403,"end":6979.823,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":7012.645,"end":7017.388,"text":"臺灣民眾黨團及委員發言人提案第18條第12條新聞媒體業績公平交易委員會申報可共同或"},{"start":7024.025,"end":7052.503,"text":"共同委託他人向本馬族玩具案提交依價至請求登記違零依僅等提案第十六條符合第四條定義之新聞媒體已經向公民交易委員申報可共同或共同委託他人向本馬族玩具案請求依價登記違零依僅等提案第七條為符合第三條第一項各款條件新聞媒體已經向公民交易委員申報其餘內容同發明專案條件提案違零依僅等提案第七條符合第四條"},{"start":7053.504,"end":7068.177,"text":"第一項各款登記是以登記或未登記的媒體經向共同交易委員會申報後可共同或共同委託他人與具備第五條第一項第一款至第一項為數位平台經營者經營前條以下寫上前條"},{"start":7069.798,"end":7089.684,"text":"前項型若符合下一個款條件,自本法實行或事前不准作公平交易法第十五條之限制,亦無正當理由不得拒絕第四條第一項各款資訊和媒體加入,而不得涵蓋與前項協商不具合理必要性質起來施行,而不得涵蓋與前項協商對象之外之其他相對人交易。"},{"start":7091.83,"end":7115.316,"text":"條件或競爭相關事宜委員王宏威等提案第七條符合第四條第一項各款條件之一人計或未人計新聞媒體先向公平交易委員會申報可共同或共同委託他人與具備第五條第一項各第一款之第三款是數位平台經營的經營前條之且議價結商第二項內容同委員羅廷文等提案"},{"start":7117.195,"end":7126.621,"text":"民眾黨提案第十九 達成第十五條第一項議價者 雙方就議價決議於結商結束時日內作成議價協議書並向主管協議書呈報未能達成協議書 雙方與結商結束時日內作成意見書 送主管協議書產配債"},{"start":7133.885,"end":7144.311,"text":"零除一人提案第八條達成第五條第一項協議的因爲雙方依舊依價決議與協商結束後十日內做的依價協議書像族人結盟申報所締結這依價協議書為人達成第五條第一項協議的雙方依舊雙方意見於"},{"start":7149.053,"end":7177.328,"text":"依價結束時之內作成一件數項主管權和私人保守並報書面白紮委員林一景等提案第十七號達成第十四條第一項協議的雙方應就依價結束時之內作成一家協商並報主管權和書面白紮不能達成第十四條第一項協議的雙方應就雙方意見與協商結束時之內作成書面一件數並報主管權和白紮委員范瑩等提案第十四條達成依價結束時之內作成一家協商並報主管權和書面白紮"},{"start":7179.629,"end":7207.901,"text":"決議與協商解鎖室內座的協議書並向主管人員申報所締結此議價協議內容第二項內容均與委員林楚瑩等提案委員林楚瑩等提案及委員林盈靜等提案第九條及第十八條新聞媒體經議價調解或仲裁或分辨的因提撥一定比例專款專用於改善新聞媒體工作條件以符合本法未健全新聞內容之產制之要者委員范瑩等提案第十四條"},{"start":7209.727,"end":7238.25,"text":"前新聞媒體經議價調解或仲裁提出送遺症因聽不一定比例專款通用與改善新聞媒體的公共條件以符合本法違憲權新聞內容產生之要旨臺灣民眾黨黨團提案及委員林盈瑾等提案及委員范瑩等提案第四章張明仲裁委員林儲英等提案第三章調解與仲裁臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十條否下列各委員"},{"start":7239.898,"end":7256.406,"text":"新聞媒體也得以順便通知主管居然與數位科技平台後將依價是以提交重來以第十六條向數位科技平台提出依價請而後且提出於十日的兩年未成竅同一數位科技平台申請提交重來三經依價"},{"start":7258.606,"end":7284.672,"text":"有影響公眾權益或利益之重大請求,或因目的世界主管階級請求得益之權交付仲裁並同時雙方讓政。不過,前項第一款是情形者,雙方將一家勢力合一,提交仲裁。依照經營協調不成立,主管階級有影響公眾權益或利益之重大,或因目的世界主管階級請求得益之權交付仲裁並同時仲裁。本條是仲裁處分法,另有違定的依仲裁法。為您處於您等提案。"},{"start":7285.672,"end":7307.253,"text":"第十條,即為另一進行提案第十九條,經符合現在更晚條件,登記新聞媒體對於書面通知主管局官與數位平台後將議價是以提交仲裁,調解或仲裁。議第五條,向數位平台提出議價請求,且提出已於十日的雙方的合一提交仲裁。"},{"start":7309.122,"end":7335.637,"text":"兩個人未曾向同一數位平台提交訟法本條例條例正法處本法定有規定的依重在法規定法理制委員任命一名等及委員王洪溫等提案第八條登記新聞每日提出議價請求三個月以上未能達於公告之數位平台經驗者達成議價請求得以順便向主任居民申請條例指派調解人進入調解人士雙方同意提交調解者意圖議價雙方均應參加"},{"start":7338.005,"end":7354.725,"text":"調解程序以誠實信用之方式進行協商並遵守第6條第3條之規定,調解期間為2個規定,雙方同意延長2個就業制,並以次為限,雙方得合意提前結束調解程序,無論當事人是否同意調解程序,根據調解進行"},{"start":7357.069,"end":7376.387,"text":"狀況認定雙方無達成調解之協議之可能是得提前結束調解程序第九條具備消息個款實施區域媒體得以書面通知主管與當事人將依照事宜交通的第四條規定經公告之數位平台經理者提出議價請求包含群力經貨"},{"start":7377.688,"end":7394.762,"text":"其他付費使用二條程序已結束雙方三位黨協議三在兩人內未成對統一數位平台經營者提交申請提交仲裁登記新聞媒體之意加請求服務請向第一條第一款制規定且提出已於時日雙方得合意提交仲裁"},{"start":7395.943,"end":7418.811,"text":"由同一經營者經營且為依第五條第二項於公告內署名載明知數位平台經營登記新聞媒體提出授權請獲其他付費要求創辦的合一一併提交仲裁請向合一提交仲裁一已書面通知處長檢查當事人創辦一併實施誠實信用參與提交之仲裁所提向仲裁的提交之文件資料均應應"},{"start":7420.271,"end":7437.683,"text":"以善本方之同送達對方,仲裁由三位仲裁人組成,具有一位以上成一仲裁法,在仲裁機構登記為仲裁人,具有實際仲裁職業,雙方亦可合一由具有相同經驗之獨任仲裁人行事,仲裁庭與主任仲裁人職權。"},{"start":7439.355,"end":7464.21,"text":"第一項或第三項通知遞交仲裁後45日內,雙方應各選任一人為仲裁人,再由雙方選定之仲裁人共推第三仲裁人為主任仲裁人,並向主任認身報,予以為選定或選定不足的有主任居然恰情具備法律經濟或產業相關專業或與副經驗之工作人士擔任。提案第二十一條"},{"start":7465.251,"end":7494.471,"text":"新聞媒體業或數位科技平台經營者依前條進行數位動態應送書面被查實的為之前條被查之內容形式方式應專行事項辦法由書面被查實的為之委員職應提案第十一等提案第十一條及委員職應提案第二十條新聞媒體業或數位平台業依前條進行重裁應向本法書面被查實的為之前條書面被查實內容形式依加應專行事項由書面被查實的為之"},{"start":7496.592,"end":7515.38,"text":"委員發言人提案第16條新聞媒體或數位服務提供者依簽調經營仲裁影響本法主管局案書面被查死的為止第二項台灣民眾黨黨團提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案第22條主管局案應建立仲裁人名單供當事人之名單選人之當事人的定義"},{"start":7516.44,"end":7538.266,"text":"定義仲裁協議,約定由仲裁一人或單數之數人成立仲裁等仲裁,具有法律或數位各地平台與新聞媒體、產業、知識或經驗性、信仰、束縛之公認等得為仲裁人士。前項仲裁之專業資格申請訓練及有關事項有助安全會同有關全能力為零除因等提案及為零依僅等提案"},{"start":7540.7,"end":7549.3,"text":"主管監禁建立仲男名單供當事人之名單中選擇當事人等地立仲裁協議約定由仲男一人或宿人成立仲裁"},{"start":7550.996,"end":7571.882,"text":"重產應具備數位或媒體產業專業相關知識及專業資格有主管及管理認定之為範疑等提案第十七條除第二項重產應具備數位或媒體產業相關知識或經驗及專業資格有主管及管理認定之第一項與第二項內容精通為零儲備等提案"},{"start":7573.362,"end":7592.13,"text":"委員若另外等提案第10條主任仲裁應選任後5日內向同事當事人及主任宣告開始仲裁的詳情仲裁開始程序後20日內當事人的警局提出議價請求或追蹤報價且由諸對方直接或間接控制商業團體或法人修飾資訊方法"},{"start":7593.19,"end":7619.176,"text":"當事人因一個月內就提供前項諮詢於十日內就請求違反前項規定,向仲裁庭提出一中裁因二十日內就作成一一致決定決定駁回決議者他方當政因決定後一個月內依其決定一致提供一第二項請求提出至諮詢及自己營業秘密者使用自費財產法審理有關秘密保持命令之規定,他仲裁提供秘密保持,秘密之決定不得抗告"},{"start":7620.396,"end":7641.991,"text":"委員王宏威等提案第十條處第二項為仲裁程序開始後二十日當事人得請求對方提出與議價請求或最終報價合理相關且由當方對方或其最終控制者直接或直接控制商業團體或法案持有的資訊外其內容經由委員羅廷偉等提案相同"},{"start":7643.382,"end":7656.964,"text":"委員論片等提案及委員王洪文等提案第十一條雙方當事人因主任仲裁人宣告仲裁程序開始後二十日內獲簽條第三項提供資訊期限最晚結束屆期最後一個月內就登記"},{"start":7658.297,"end":7683.096,"text":"新聞媒體提出是仲裁金或其他付費者向仲裁領取出最終報價最終報價因爲未來兩年內給付總金額已經提出後期不得撤回並準由第六條第三項規定提出最終報價是因複據已有或雙方當時有效之相關協議雙方均提出最終報價或提出期限後一個月內當事人得就他方最終報價及複據資料表示意見但已一次違憲"},{"start":7683.656,"end":7710.399,"text":"追蹤報價及依前項定表示之意見不可超出主管機關所定長途限制中共當事人均未提出追蹤報價重裁程序予以提出期限截止反時終結重裁庭作成重裁判斷權當事人專方得合意終結重裁程序予以經主管通知主任重裁人而生效委員會退言而提案第十二條重裁因採納較為合理之當事人追蹤報價作為重裁判斷僅有一方提出追蹤報價重裁程序予以"},{"start":7712.781,"end":7730.493,"text":"採納之但對於我國新聞報道產制或消費者造成嚴重減損之最終報道中產業應適為駁回適為為提出中產業應採納最終報道前可調查及經過以負責公民公立中產業應前兩項作為中產業判斷駁回或調查最終報道應考慮下列因素"},{"start":7731.674,"end":7733.856,"text":"1.數位平台經營者是登記新聞媒體報導內容而獲資金錢或費金錢之利2."},{"start":7733.856,"end":7738.1,"text":"登記新聞媒體是數位平台經營者以轉債方式利用其報導內容所獲的金錢或費金錢之利3."},{"start":7738.1,"end":7739.321,"text":"登記新聞媒體經轉債利用報導內容而是合理產生什麼?4."},{"start":7739.321,"end":7741.363,"text":"數位平台經營者以轉債方式利用報導"},{"start":7753.957,"end":7778.902,"text":"最終報價是幾分總金額是否對數位平台經營者的生意利益造成過度負擔?如果數位平台經營者與登記新聞媒體也顯不相干之意將內,仲裁予以與中共當事人均依前條第三項表示意見或表示意見期限後至兩個月內作出仲裁判斷與仲裁判斷出序名利由。中共當事人依遵守仲裁判斷,本法仲裁判斷是效率與資金。"},{"start":7780.482,"end":7797.602,"text":"適用重頭髮委員王恆威等提案第十二條處第一項末段但疏微但有高度可能對我國芯能產設或消費造成嚴重減損是最重報價的中海聯運博會委員及主席與內容均與委員羅屯門等提案相同"},{"start":7799.198,"end":7827.278,"text":"委員都會提案等提案及委員往往會等提案第十三條有關調解人或其重產人之費用調解與重產人費用之支付法重產人第一衝突皆若以迴避以及其他進行調解之重產人所需程序有資產居然另以定義之委員都會提案及委員往往會提案等提案第十四條數位平台經營者或數位媒體有以下的傾出官居然得通知現已改成現期未改正者得出新台幣五萬元以上五十萬元以下房幣按連續處罰"},{"start":7829.039,"end":7858.791,"text":"法治1.違反第五條第四章2.違反第六條第七章3.違反第八條第二章4.違反第九條第四章5.違反第十二條第五章臺灣民眾黨黨委員陸天輝等提案及委員范雲等提案第五章張敏負責委員林楚英等提案第四章張敏負責臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第二十三條本法是不是行細則有主管決案定制委員林一景等提案及委員范雲等"},{"start":7859.318,"end":7869.048,"text":"提案第十八條,分發施行者有作人權定制委員林初英等提案第十三條,分發施行者有作人權定制台灣民眾黨黨斷提案"},{"start":7871.192,"end":7895.565,"text":"第二十四條為民進兩條第二十三條委員范雲兩條第十九條本法實行日期由行政院定之委員林俊英兩條第十四條委員羅廷偉兩條第十五條委員王洪文兩條第十五條本法實行日期由行政院定之好,宣讀完畢"},{"start":7896.846,"end":7913.182,"text":"好各位我們逐條先讀完畢那現在請各位委員好我們現在休息五分鐘請各位委員趕快回議事廳那現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":8220.974,"end":8223.033,"text":"好各位委員各位官員請就座"},{"start":8227.581,"end":8254.184,"text":"我們這個新聞媒體數位科技平台公平花展華的草案因為各委員提出來的各種版本所以我們書面這裡資料那我們現在開始來直條討論那如果有共識我們就討論那如果沒有共識那我們就"},{"start":8255.225,"end":8263.318,"text":"提出保留那現在我們開始我們的名稱的部分來請各位委員花言"},{"start":8267.972,"end":8289.71,"text":"主席大家好我們的立場是說其實因為這個法定了剛才我在代替討論的時候有提過就這個法定了以後事實上變成你要強迫強迫這個分潤事實上Meta他們會認為說你上我的平台"},{"start":8290.765,"end":8312.609,"text":"跟我們無線電視台上有線電視台或任何電視台一起上有線電視台一樣你上有線電視台是我們上台他要跟我們收上架費所以這個東西到底是我的媒體夠大是你要費用給我我的媒體不夠大是我要費用給你所以這個東西大家爭議不一樣"},{"start":8313.208,"end":8334.895,"text":"那我們也都認為說媒體我們希望每個媒體都有機會分潤這個我們一定贊成只是說這個法定下去以後會有跟澳洲或加拿大類似這種情況變成山蘇啦所以基本上我們的立場是希望說就是速發部跟NCC然後他們去訂一個平台 分潤的平台"},{"start":8335.695,"end":8358.467,"text":"然後就像Google啦或者是其他的反正所有的平台他願意捐款給我們這個平台的那我們這個平台去分潤給所有的媒體那這些媒體可能分潤的方式不一樣或者是我們做一個假設就用流量去做分配大家也很公平假設是這樣子的話他就會有一個分潤的機制所以基本上我們的立場是"},{"start":8360.848,"end":8388.001,"text":"就是這個法案我們其實是不贊成的那包括這個名稱就我們也不贊成好那個那個那個王宏威委員主席各位委員那個想跟大家報告一下就是我我這邊提出來是就是新聞媒體跟數位平台的強制溢價那這個部分呢因為我們排除了這個成立基金的方式"},{"start":8388.721,"end":8403.488,"text":"那成立基金的方式他有兩個問題第一個問題過去事務發布也提過就是如果你成立基金的話會被美國政府這還不是只是Meta跟Google會被美國政府"},{"start":8404.308,"end":8418.663,"text":"視之為你對於數位平台的一個科稅的形式它只是不叫稅但是它是成立一個基金所以這個可能尤其現在當然那時候書發部一直在講說這個不能訂訂了之後就影響我們跟美國貿易關稅的談判但是我們現在稅率也訂了"},{"start":8426.651,"end":8436.819,"text":"所以呢為什麼我這邊就是用強制溢價的方式所以就是我們排除了成立基金的方式以免未來還衍生美國政府認為你對於這個數位平台有這個收稅費的問題這是其一"},{"start":8445.606,"end":8454.252,"text":"那第二就是如果以基金如果由政府來做一個基金然後再做分潤也就是說那就要經由政府了那這個其實這個我們長期以來我們非常擔心而且事實上發生的就政府的標案其實就已經非常非常的偏頗了對不對由政府來做分配的時候過去有公平嗎沒有公平他都很偏頗"},{"start":8474.125,"end":8487.962,"text":"所以你現在再把大家費了這麼九牛二虎的力氣爭取到的這個分潤再由成立一個基金再由政府來做分配的話那不是就雪上加霜嗎所以在這邊以上報告就是說"},{"start":8491.866,"end":8507.999,"text":"我想我們今天因為已經進入了主條討論那可能我們還是把大家對於這個大家的這個法案的名稱大家能夠盡量能夠去去做一個整合好不好如果不能做整合的話再由主席來做才是以上謝謝"},{"start":8510.861,"end":8529.869,"text":"我剛剛實在要反駁一下黃宏威委員的認知因為你可能沒有仔細看大家的條文其實基金不一定一定要政府給也有一些人主張基金可以是捐款NGO所以基金不一定一定是綁就是你剛講的強制溢價"},{"start":8532.51,"end":8548.655,"text":"那剛剛次長已經講到說當然我們覺得書發布的動作太慢啦可是書發布是說是因為關稅嘛那剛剛次長在報告的時候他們最近有努力有一個數位分潤平台那這個數位分潤平台又跟你講的基金"},{"start":8549.375,"end":8577.269,"text":"不是是不一樣的東西喔那所以呢現在看起來大家其實有共識的是新聞有價嘛那個民主要有韌性可是就方法上現在多數委員的強制溢價的部分被擔心說剛剛還聽到就是澳洲有最新的加拿大跟澳洲都有新的狀況所以就是我們如果都有共識新聞有價然後新聞有品質民主才有韌性的話"},{"start":8578.129,"end":8606.928,"text":"那所以我是主張給速發布一些空間把你們那個數位分潤平台條文設計出來如何跟基金那有些人也主張有一個鼓勵協商就是非強制的一個溢價制一起協調好我覺得這整個才是我們應該討論的那因為現在變數這麼多那我自己的版本我也要再提修正動力就是說因為情勢又不太一樣了那也在不斷的諮詢就是新聞學者"},{"start":8608.109,"end":8623.004,"text":"那新聞工作者那新聞不同的產業電子媒體的產業跟雜誌產業的意境又不一樣所以我覺得剛剛我們的召委知潔委員講得很好這不只是速發部還有NCC"},{"start":8624.185,"end":8646.104,"text":"還有好幾個部會都應該要橫向聯繫那至少書發部做了一些工作嘛剛剛如果王宏威委員有在聽的話他們已經設計出一個數位分潤平台然後跟十幾個媒體已經談好他們願意接受這個方向了那這是很好答這可能是民主國家獨創的因為我們現在沒有看到別的國家有這個部分以上"},{"start":8647.145,"end":8656.122,"text":"看起來標題也沒有共識像我就主張要民主任性放進去啊因為媒體的品質跟民主任性有關好 那個張旗開委員"},{"start":8658.246,"end":8684.758,"text":"今天是非常重要的一天我主張今天如果有共識的就趕快先過但是沒共識的保留趕快送出委員會這是第一個為什麼這樣提呢第一個大家對於新聞要有價這個是有共識的對不對使用者互惠也是有共識的第三個共識更重要了對於我們台灣目前的新聞產業跟新聞工作者這是一部非常非常重要的立法"},{"start":8686.178,"end":8700.124,"text":"對台灣現在老講產業現在新聞產業老講是老講是蠻慘的啦講真的因為大部分的這個大部分的這個收入啊都被這個科技平台都已經拿走他們一年大概賺到四五百萬"},{"start":8701.044,"end":8723.372,"text":"可是大部分的這個產業 不管是平面 不管是電視台現在那個收入都是大幅在萎縮當中所以這一步 這個立法非常非常重要而且經過大家幾次的公聽會還有這個審查有些地方 不只剛剛講的這個三大共識已經有了新聞有價 使用者互惠對我們產業的這個發展是正面的它至少還做了三大保障啊"},{"start":8724.568,"end":8750.983,"text":"我看這個條文裡面很好 各黨都有提出來至少有三大保障 至少要保護媒體不會被反倒部 例如說不會被下架或是說你的流量不會突然 今天這個今天很高 明天突然這個演算法一變 突然這個就降下來 這個上次NCC的主委也有答應說你們會去把這個要貫徹嘛 對不對還有我們要保障我們這個媒體工作者 包括談好了之後這很多的這個分潤 是要用來照顧基層的"},{"start":8753.164,"end":8771.152,"text":"新聞工作者的心思跟整個這個媒體環境的這個改善甚至這裡面還有一個條文是保障小型的這個媒體都可以進來這個議價那這個方法很簡單方法經過幾次討論完之後民進黨上次有幾位委員有來嘛我們已經把方法提出來了現在目前"},{"start":8772.532,"end":8800.811,"text":"國民黨提出來是這個用議價的這個方式民進黨本來提的是基金嘛那我們台灣民眾黨是雙軌進行那因為上次的世衛發展部已經提了你現在提基金現在碰到美國高關稅這個衝擊有可能會變成一個障礙所以上次大家已經有共識啊就是先把基金先擱置我們只要先給這個議價這部分那議價老實講空間是很大的我先跟大家講一個很重要的最近這一個月Meta、Google、LINE他們都來溝通過嘛"},{"start":8801.852,"end":8811.646,"text":"那就跟大家講大家知道嗎像媒體溢價已經是現在進行式了大家知道嗎那現在跟我們台灣已經有600家的媒體是有溢價的耶"},{"start":8813.706,"end":8840.464,"text":"所以他是現在進行沒有困難那Google本身也是比較彈性比較大的當然Meta是比較強硬一點點可是那天我們也特別提出一個概念就是說能不能達到一個雙贏Meta現在主要他們的困擾是什麼他們說他平常那個新聞他們都是被導流進去的因為他們做的是一個社群嘛他們說新聞不是他主體那你說好啊那你如果是這樣的話因為你不是主體所以你談的那個溢價的那個那個彈性反而會是更大的"},{"start":8841.304,"end":8859.567,"text":"金額可能就會比較低或者是怎麼樣或者說你把這個新聞的這一塊把它做好就可以雙贏以後你在Meta上面的臉書上面的新聞的值是可以往上走的那進來的廣告可能會更多他們也是回去會好好檢討所以我今天是建議就是說大家事實上經過幾次討論本來已經有一個共識了就是把基金"},{"start":8860.208,"end":8877.32,"text":"先擱置然後就給了一個議價的部分議價老實講是很寬鬆的他只是給一個法源給一條路就對了啦他也沒有完全的這個強制性那我是建議今天有意見的沒有意見趕快就過了那沒有意見的保留全部送那個黨團協商儘快我們跟時間賽跑謝謝好那個我現在談的是我們名稱的部分啦"},{"start":8884.079,"end":8902.373,"text":"那民生的部分確實啊也有論性也有強制也有比較中性的我看民主營跟本黨所提出來的是較為沒有談到什麼論性沒有談到強制那這個部分確實是有三個版本三個看法"},{"start":8903.123,"end":8930.644,"text":"那我是不是這樣啦因為我們就節省時間的花言能不能就是說這個到最後我們還是把它保留把它保留那名稱的部分大家重新再來修改才起的共識這樣好不好各位這樣有沒有意見好那我們這個名稱的部分就先保留好不好來接下來我們第一張總則的部分大家看一下有沒有什麼意見"},{"start":8931.909,"end":8953.161,"text":"那確實版本也是很多很多委員提出來的版本大致一樣但是有少部分不一樣有些是有總則有些是沒有總則那請問一下這個總則的部分總則的部分大家有什麼意見那如果沒有"},{"start":8959.397,"end":8970.321,"text":"沒有意見的話是不是這個總則要保留嗎總則是一個大綱而已啊各位好那大家的意見就是那個那個洗澡委的意見還是那個總則的部分也是保留大家有沒有意見"},{"start":8985.956,"end":8999.392,"text":"好那接下來我們現在第一條第一條的部分來來第一條我們大家看一下來那大家第一條有沒有什麼意見第一條這個也是蠻"},{"start":9001.745,"end":9023.971,"text":"大部分大家各委員提案的意見大概都差不多但是還是有少數啊少數是會不一樣那這個部分第一條的部分是不是啊有沒有人有意見啊"},{"start":9025.629,"end":9049.303,"text":"好那這個部分也是先保留這樣大家有沒有意見好沒有意見我們這個第一條也保留好不好來接下來第二條的部分第二條的部分有修正動議那請求各位就讓修正動議把它唸一下讓大家知道那至於如何處理我們再來做"},{"start":9051.345,"end":9077.231,"text":"第二條沒有喔抱歉抱歉第二條沒有喔第二條沒有那第二條這個部分大家有什麼意見還是保留好有嗎那個宏威你第二條有修正是吧宏威"},{"start":9080.242,"end":9091.637,"text":"如果有修正就也要把他練然後這樣才有辦法才有辦法把他保留有嗎有修正動議嗎"},{"start":9097.967,"end":9121.982,"text":"不是啊 那修正東西要念一下好 這樣好不好 那個洪威 洪威委員你的修正第二條是我們台灣民眾黨的第五條所以我們今天因為行政院沒有版本所以我們是依照黨裡面的民眾黨的版本為基準那等一下你的第二條修正再挪到第五條來先讀"},{"start":9123.917,"end":9138.606,"text":"這樣好不好好那我們第二條的部分也是保留那大家有沒有意見好沒有意見來我們進行第三條來各位第三條的部分我看大家提的"},{"start":9140.134,"end":9168.11,"text":"各黨各委員所提的版本其實大致一樣但是用於跟裡面的細節內容也就是像什麼二分之一或划款或什麼營業額等等這類確實是有差距是不是請教各位這個版本要不要綜合一下或者要保留"},{"start":9170.95,"end":9185.561,"text":"好建議保留那各位有沒有意見好沒有意見我們這個第三條的部分我們也是保留來好也是第四條的部分大家看一下大家看一下"},{"start":9187.987,"end":9213.025,"text":"因為這個應該這個範圍會比較比較比較小啦因為我在看第四條就是談那個新聞媒體啦這等等那大家的各委員提案的包括本黨台灣民眾黨提的大家都大同小異啦但是用語的部分確實是大家還是要協商跟共識一下"},{"start":9213.866,"end":9231.424,"text":"那是不是第4條也是保留這樣好不好好大家有沒有意見好沒有意見我們還是保留來進行第5條第5條有洪威委員提出的修正動議把他"},{"start":9232.928,"end":9254.384,"text":"還有林楚英委員還有台灣民眾黨也有修正林楚英委員也有修那現在請議事人員宣讀修正的修正動議來先宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條的修正動議是"},{"start":9257.768,"end":9268.589,"text":"民進黨黨團提案修正第五條在第一項的第二款前段將轉載修正為利用然後徵定第二項文字內容為第一項第二款所稱利用"},{"start":9270.151,"end":9286.15,"text":"包括但不限於以下方式1 內容在該服務上被複製或以其他方式被放置2 該服務上提供內容標題或摘要3 接取、搜尋、檢索、爬取並生成相關內容訓練、資料庫等然後說明3"},{"start":9290.895,"end":9314.333,"text":"蘇明山的中段將轉載修正為利用提案人委員林國成的修正動議9針對委員林楚英等提案修正第4條在第一項第二款與數位平台轉載的後面徵訂 接取 搜尋 解鎖 爬取訓練資料庫等文字"},{"start":9316.182,"end":9344.597,"text":"繼續宣讀修正動議一委員王洪威等二十人提案修正第二條在第一項第一項的默劇徵訂以利用新聞內容作為搜尋檢索訓練資料庫等目的之平台亦屬之第三項徵訂第三款文字內容為三透過其平台獲取與我國新聞媒體報導內容相關之收益或使用者數據"},{"start":9347.162,"end":9376.024,"text":"提案人委員魯明哲王洪威等宣讀完畢宣讀完畢好各位這個我們林楚英委員還有王洪威委員都有修正動議所以各位這個第五條的大家有什麼看法有什麼意見"},{"start":9378.064,"end":9392.558,"text":"其實我補充一下其實我現在看到包含那個李明哲委員還有我所提案的這個修正動議以及林柱英委員以及民眾黨其實我覺得大概跟大家報告"},{"start":9393.098,"end":9421.07,"text":"他這個修正基本上就是過去我們在提案的時候大概都是聚焦在類似像Google啊Meta這樣的一個數位平台但是呢最近大家也發現其實我們大量的是使用AI搜尋其實有很多人其實已經不用Google搜尋了都是大量使用AI搜尋所以這個絕對是未來的一個趨勢所以可以看得出來至少我們這個三個的修正動力都是朝著"},{"start":9421.63,"end":9442.788,"text":"就是這種未來的AI搜尋應該也放到讓我們的這個應該它有這個這個就是得有溢價的空間那這個跟大家以上報告就是這一條的修正基本上是往就是現在的一個達的趨勢去把它涵蓋在那一項好謝謝洪文委員好來這個"},{"start":9446.625,"end":9473.836,"text":"謝謝主席 我再補充一下其實任何的搜尋剛剛宏威提到的我們也都贊成就是說你不管是AI不管是Google不管是Meta的任何一個相關的平台那基本上我們媒體溢價媒體有價這個我們也都贊成就是媒體應該是有價的那現在為什麼這一個我們會有這樣子一個不一樣的意見就是說書畫部也拿出那個加拿大跟"},{"start":9474.724,"end":9500.437,"text":"澳洲的例子給我們看你強迫他一定要捐多少錢他就給你下架加拿大整個國家的新聞他就給你下架那當然我們可以上架又可以議價這是我們的期盼但是他如果是你只要要收錢規定他要繳多少錢他就給你下架就會造成三輸的局面所以這個有時候就是平台"},{"start":9501.636,"end":9526.326,"text":"到底是媒體是一定有叫我們一定站場那平台你要上它的平台它有沒有架這個又另外一個概念所以我想我們還是一樣有這個認知就是說媒體有叫我們站場那數化部跟NCC盡量去溝通這個基金那基金也剛剛提到就是說范瑩也提到就是說我們用那個可能是用NGO不是政府來分配"},{"start":9527.026,"end":9546.519,"text":"那分配的標準你如果說一定要誰去准誰去不准可能不見得客觀那如果有機會是不是用流量啊 大家不會說我是建議說我們現在大致上的認知概念是這樣那也讓大家當作一個參考所以這個平台你說到底哪一些平台可以給我們錢的平台我們當然都願意啊"},{"start":9547.692,"end":9571.763,"text":"但是哪些錢要給我們哪些平台不給我們這個就還是必須要去去談磋商啦所以這個跟各位報告一下說數位科技平台到底有哪一些我們其實也很難就這裡就把它訂一個很完整的所有的數位平台好謝謝許志傑召委來現在請林楚英委員發言"},{"start":9573.005,"end":9590.575,"text":"為了節省大家時間講過的我們不會再重複那我先講一下我這個部分當然我也認同就是大家現在都認為真的必須要讓平台付出這個所謂使用者付費的部分大概現在就是AI搜尋引擎的部分其實我們都知道新聞一天之後它就會變成大數據或變成Data"},{"start":9592.256,"end":9609.613,"text":"那麼就是在AI搜尋的時候比較有機會能夠回到我們立法的本意就是新聞有價所以我才會把這個放進去那麼同時我還是要再次的提醒就是以目前包括剛剛最新的訊息是加拿大的總理都要廢止這個新聞有價的相關法規的時候"},{"start":9611.255,"end":9629.223,"text":"我們現在把這個建進去之後接下來立這個法令到底有沒有辦法爭取到新聞有價的部分我還是要在同時的去提醒一下啦就是我會認為這個部分恐怕我們還是要請數位部要再好好的跟平台來做溝通"},{"start":9630.524,"end":9659.722,"text":"好 謝謝我在看這個還是蠻有這個旗艦的那是不是本席就特別裁定了這個也來保留那保留的部分連修正動議也保留修正的話所以這樣的話才會一連貫才會把修正動議啊把它連貫性這樣好不好好 那這個我們第五條也是保留來接下來第六條"},{"start":9664.603,"end":9676.341,"text":"來 各位第六條有修正嗎沒有第六條有沒有修正沒有還有好 第六條也有修正也有修正動議現在請我們議事人員宣讀修正動議"},{"start":9678.926,"end":9706.26,"text":"修正動議二為王宏威等二十人提案修正第五條再增訂第四項文字內容為第一項第二款所謂於數位平台以轉載方式利用包括但不限於以下方式一新聞報導內容在該服務上被複製或以其他方式被放置二該服務上提供內容標題或摘要三複製並"},{"start":9708.101,"end":9735.91,"text":"三 複製並生成相關內容訓練資料庫知識蒸餾 瀏覽模擬等提案人委員 魯明哲 王宏威等宣布完畢好 這個特別跟各位委員做報告我們現在因為行政院沒有版本所以用台灣民眾黨之版本所以有些委員提案會有落差第五條事實上他的內容就是第六條"},{"start":9736.75,"end":9757.55,"text":"所以我特別跟各位委員做說明跟報告所以現在就是王宏威有提他原來的第五案第五條但事實上是第六條的那個宗旨都一樣所以特別再來說明一下那這個部分因為我在看"},{"start":9758.371,"end":9779.329,"text":"也是一樣大概主旨都一樣但是有部分是不太一樣那是不是這個部分就也是來保留這樣大家有沒有意見好一樣齁一樣就是第六條保留連修正動議也保留好來進行"},{"start":9784.211,"end":9801.489,"text":"第二章第二章也就是數位新聞的基金這個部分啦也就是這個對第二章這個大家張銘有沒有意見有修正動議喔也有修正動議來宣讀修正動議"},{"start":9804.799,"end":9821.184,"text":"民眾黨黨團提案第二章對照委員林柱英等17人提案徵並的第四章張明為新聞媒體與修正動議9徵並第四章張明為新聞媒體與數位平台發展期間宣布完畢好"},{"start":9824.16,"end":9848.035,"text":"這個因為基金剛剛各位委員也有有些人贊成有基金有些人贊成沒有基金那如何分論確實那我的看法在這裡我們可能啊可能到最後協商的時候還是有另外一個版本那協商也可以提版本那現在可以提版本"},{"start":9848.675,"end":9875.208,"text":"那我特別說明一下這個基金的部分過去大家比較質疑我們各位委員比較擔心的就是說你把這個分論的東西拿來以後到底是要分給員工或者要分給基金所以這個確實是還是有一些大家彼此之間要溝通的地方那是不是這個第二章這個部分我們也保留這樣大家有沒有意見"},{"start":9876.058,"end":9900.338,"text":"沒有沒有意見那我們就一併跟修正動議修正動議也把它內陸保留來接下來第七條的部分也有修正動議來請先讀民眾黨黨團提案第七條對照委員林楚映等17人提案修正動議9的第13條"},{"start":9904.496,"end":9928.713,"text":"為徵訂第13條文件內容為為健全新聞媒體制發展建構優質新聞媒體產製環境主管機關應設置新聞媒體與數位平台發展基金為預算法第4條第1項第2款鎖定之特種基金前項新聞媒體與數位平台發展基金是收支組成運用管理及監督四項相關辦法由主管機關定制宣布完畢"},{"start":9929.878,"end":9959.579,"text":"好 各位委員這個我在看這個也是牽涉到基金的這些問題那是不是也是一併保留然後把修正動議好 那個歡迎委員我再補充一下我也有那個修正動議那就是跟民主委員的很像我這後面只多一個可能你還沒拿到就是後面說主管機關應委託獨立公正之非營利經過辦理因為這樣子就可以讓有些人有擔心政府在掌控的疑慮能夠化解以上"},{"start":9959.659,"end":9988.319,"text":"好這個部分啊那個歡迎委員我跟你說明一下因為那個可能發現到那個條字剛就剛才我跟各位委員報告好你在第七條你這樣好不好你的修正的部分我們也是也一併保留好不好一併保留然後放在是第七條或者放在哪一個地方就授權議事人員這裡那一併把它保留"},{"start":9989.379,"end":10017.987,"text":"這樣的話就比較完整的好不好好那這個第七條的部分我們也是來保留之前我先發言一下就是因為我這個修正動議是我想我們剛剛都有非常討論過首先第一個當然就是雖然說要設置這樣的基金那麼相關的管理辦法由主管機關定之但是不是由主管機關就是政府不會介入運作那麼剛剛也有聽到數位部剛好有提到是剛好要設置一個所謂分潤平台對不對"},{"start":10018.567,"end":10036.576,"text":"那麼現在這個保留出去之後到我們真的在做實質的協商或討論還有一段時間我會非常強烈的建議從這個角度啊也去把這樣的所謂的整個平台建制完善那麼協助在我們計算分潤機制的時候怎麼樣是合理的因為剛剛主席也特別"},{"start":10037.517,"end":10051.973,"text":"提到了就這些錢這是怎麼分潤那到底是給誰或是怎麼樣做分配是不是真的達到所謂新聞油價使用者付費的部分那要有一個計算的機制的平台這個是非常重要的不然我覺得推基金會卡住"},{"start":10052.779,"end":10074.764,"text":"好 這個數位部你們可能要把委員啊顧慮的跟提出修正的這些有利不利的部分都要考慮下去那這樣的話才會更完整那我也希望這些 這個整個華的運作是未來之期式啦你今天逃了今天 逃不了明天啦還是要去面對啦"},{"start":10075.524,"end":10101.269,"text":"所以委員提出來的都非常理性包括台灣民眾黨包括國民黨包括民進黨所提出來的都是善意所以我要拜託主管機關要把這些都要納入考慮就像很簡單我認為國民黨跟台灣民眾黨就很主張你分任來的東西你到底到底那個製作權人這些員工他可以不可以分到"},{"start":10103.096,"end":10122.429,"text":"這個也是很重要這個也是很重要不要搞了老半天這些記者的寫了老半天你們用了以後都是老闆在分認那是對職工啊對這些記者是不公平的所以這個部分要拜託林正智回去跟黃部長這個還是要認真去考慮啦好不好好來"},{"start":10124.33,"end":10139.192,"text":"抱歉 今天民進黨一直在提要成立基金分任平台這個跟上次數位發展部來報告不是剛好是牆碰了嗎上次部長來報告的時候是講說美國那邊因為高關稅他們特別對於要成立基金"},{"start":10140.954,"end":10163.536,"text":"然後分證那個金額提高5%或多少進去這個會造成高關稅的衝擊不是嗎現在民進黨是有跟事務會發展部現在什麼新的討論這是第一個到底這個基金的成立或者分證平台這個到底會不會對高關稅發生衝擊這是第一個疑問 第二個媒體裡面一個很重要精神就是自由啊所以我們才力主說給一個"},{"start":10165.137,"end":10183.511,"text":"溢價的一個法規跟溢價的這個途徑就可以了不要限制太多不要變成好像政府的手伸進去然後剛剛一直在強調什麼獨立機關他們弄到後來又是一個不公正不獨立的一個機關這是新聞媒體新聞記者或者是新聞產業要的嗎這可能都要好好思考 謝謝"},{"start":10185.611,"end":10211.201,"text":"跟那個張其凱委員說明一下至少我的理解我並不是代表數法部我的理解是說上次他講的是強制稅那大家有看到川普跟那個應該是澳洲嘛據說那個爭議是這可是呢剛剛林楚瑜委員跟我我們都有提到的我們講的這個部分是數法部要設計一個新的數位分潤平台有點像台灣媒體的集體訂閱制"},{"start":10212.662,"end":10237.268,"text":"比如說你一個人交300塊你只有時報聯合報都有知識那他們已經有超過10個媒體同意這個新做法是很有創意的那這個基金呢就是那邊可能用流量或是用什麼樣的方式之後那可以一起包含捐贈給這個基金鼓勵不管是優質的評價剛剛我們有特別講因為外界就擔心說你這基金"},{"start":10237.808,"end":10266.346,"text":"政府社是不是政府的手要伸進來所以我剛剛講的我那個條文裡面就是委託獨立公正制非營利機構辦理那就可以邀請媒體一起來處理這個部分所以就不會有那個政府的手伸進來的部分那也不是你剛剛所講的是那個會影響關稅的強制的部分影響關稅的是強制溢價跟那個強制稅那現在其實大家就進入實質討論了嘛就以上說明一下這樣"},{"start":10266.966,"end":10272.069,"text":"我快速解釋一下我的這個部分跟就是抽稅或是什麼數位稅都不一樣不是我只是很直接的認為是說像剛剛齊凱你也提到像Light Day他們其實已經實質的跟媒體做一些議價了"},{"start":10290.14,"end":10304.269,"text":"那麼像Google其實他在YouTube平台上面跟電子媒體他們其實也有一定的分潤包括現在的很多網紅啊或是電視台也有一些他們自己的分潤機制了但是回歸到很多平台他在使用點閱或點擊的時候到底該怎麼議價那麼是不是透過一個基金成立一個就是其他沒有來得及議價的人可以進來這個平台在他使用的時候他可以去計算點閱率或相關的"},{"start":10318.118,"end":10342.85,"text":"那我們只是開另外一條門跟一個方式那這個東西跟政府擺錢進來沒有就不是那也不是說叫Google或Meta一定要捐錢進來也不是只是在基金跟媒體直接直銷的跟平台溢價之外我們開我啦我自己個人是跟媒體討論過之後有另外一條路就是你怎麼去算那個點閱率跟點擊率"},{"start":10344.431,"end":10358.724,"text":"對 那這個東西它只是第三條我認為可行的方案那我建議是擺進來一起討論而不是現在討論我這個東西對 去協商啦 對跟大家解釋一下大概是這個意思好 來 葉延芝委員"},{"start":10362.014,"end":10379.369,"text":"我是對用基金方式來處理我是蠻有疑慮的啦以前Google在2023年也有一個台灣新聞數位共同基金那時候好像也是有一個所謂的非營利機構來處理然後很多媒體都要去跟他申請那有人就有拿到有人就沒有拿到"},{"start":10380.029,"end":10406.91,"text":"那我覺得有一點隔一層為什麼我們不是訂定一個溢價的機制由政府去跟國外的平台去要到錢要到錢之後由業者自行去協調嘛然後政府做一個從中的協助嘛而不是說政府忽然變成主導就是錢變成政府的基金管理然後大家要來再去跟政府申請然後甚至政府還可以來決定這個基金某一部分的用途"},{"start":10407.711,"end":10434.937,"text":"我覺得這個就沒有那麼的直接那當然辦委員會講說可以委託獨立公正的非營利機構可是問題是那是誰來委託這個獨立公正非營利機構那這個獨立公正的非營利機構它公正嗎因為我們現在也看到很多所謂的看起來形式上公正的團體但實際上它並沒有很公正所以這會衍生出很多主觀性的問題所以我對於成立基金這件事情我自己是很有疑慮"},{"start":10437.394,"end":10459.8,"text":"請洪孟楷委員花言好 那個諾多委員的一個意見其實現在到了這第七條那主要還是我剛聽了起來變成是好像有第三個模式有第一個模式是政府議價讓平台跟新聞媒體跟這個社群平台議價那第二個是這個基金那第三又說有一個新的模式"},{"start":10460.58,"end":10476.102,"text":"那到底速發部我們現在要講因為這個禮拜一我們人工智慧基本法的時候速發部也本來答應說7月中要提出願版到最後還是沒有但是我們在交通化委員會跟交通委員會聯席我們還是有把它給諸條的審查"},{"start":10477.423,"end":10500.463,"text":"那一個月的一個冷凍期我們也要求是說那這樣子到時候行政院一定要有版本出來我們才能共同來做一個討論那一樣今天這個部分我覺得到最後可能在主席才支持下還是保留那但是速發部請要讓國人以及未來你們要做的事情知道是說那你們傾向是哪一個方案你們傾向的方案"},{"start":10501.482,"end":10525.717,"text":"一個月後的朝野協商如果假設冷凍節完之後朝野協商院會不會有版本針對我們這個條文裡面院會不會有版本因為最終的執行以及最終符合我們中華民國符合我們台灣大家能夠在媒體生態環境來講的話是速發布你要做主管機關你還是要去運行那你們期待是什麼樣版本那以及說這樣的一個狀況能不能"},{"start":10527.341,"end":10540.837,"text":"確實啦你說也有我還再強調一點這兩個其實都沒有絕對的優或絕對的劣為什麼因為你如果說沒有確定它是一個說則或說沒有一個明確標準的話那不就是"},{"start":10542.014,"end":10566.52,"text":"今天大家比較關注的時候這個願意來有一些溢價空間那如果說明天大家比較不關注的時候他是不是就可以縮水了因為他沒有法律的保障他就可以縮水了他的溢價空間就比較小或甚至說他有沒有未來又要回歸到就是新聞有價媒體有價但是他還是可以免費使用有可能嘛所以這也是為什麼我們要訂立法令來去做一個保障嘛"},{"start":10567.04,"end":10589.406,"text":"那澳洲也好加拿大也好大家也都講是說這個模式但是他們先行的狀況從2021年2022年這樣子的推動其實過去這幾年也有保障某種程度上的新聞跟內容的自由反觀台灣從2021年一直講說我們的新聞溢價法到現在五年過去四年過去了還是只聞樓梯響啊"},{"start":10590.566,"end":10611.064,"text":"那為什麼會演變成是說有社群媒體平台跟新聞這個媒體然後大家互相的說私下的一些這個溝通那就是因為政府的角色不見之後媒體新聞他們要自立救濟所以他們才會想方設法找其他管道來去找社群媒體平台來溝通嘛"},{"start":10611.644,"end":10633.966,"text":"但不能倒因為果不能因為他們自力救濟而你反而覺得說欸不錯啊他自力救濟很好啊那還是一樣啊媒體也有分大小啊大的媒體也許有辦法可以跟社群媒體平台來去拍板啊但小的媒體是反而就更沒有那個能力跟空間那反而到最後就變成是小的媒體媒體裡面也會有小的媒體被犧牲只剩大的媒體 財團化"},{"start":10635.888,"end":10663.106,"text":"所以這也是為什麼我們一直在強調是說這一個法令應該要推動我們可以走出我們的路可是你行政部門要讓我們知道是說那你的想法是什麼今天討論那麼多版本但沒有願版那我要求真的等一下主席真的一定要交通委員會跟交通文化委員會既然剛剛主席也講了國民黨民眾黨民進黨都可以很理性的坐下來討論那也應該要給我們行政部門一個責任嘛"},{"start":10663.886,"end":10675.488,"text":"那你的願版是不是應該在一個月後當我們要討論的時候你的行政院的態度你速發部的版本也應該要出來大家可以綜合來討論以上 謝謝好 我們王宏威委員"},{"start":10677.679,"end":10697.304,"text":"謝謝主席在我提出來法案裡面並沒有基金的設計那剛才為什麼沒有基金設計我有特別提到那當然今天又突然傳出說受發部現在也在積極協調業者要做一個所謂的平台怎麼聯合訂閱平台"},{"start":10698.684,"end":10708.131,"text":"那我想第一個 就是述發部的起步實在是太晚太晚了就是等到我們今天已經這個召委要排入這個逐條討論好 現在再拿一個說好 我們來延伸一個大家這個一個訂閱 聯合訂閱的平台這個平台到底是長得什麼樣第一個也不曉得"},{"start":10720.2,"end":10722.241,"text":"第二個說我們年底也來溝通這不就是擺明了在拖時間另外他講說我們已經跟十多家媒體了例如中央社我覺得中央社我相信可能公廣集團裡面的公視 華視也都願意"},{"start":10740.313,"end":10762.52,"text":"所以就說在這一段時間裡面我們在講其實是來自於我們的很多的媒體的產業因應期盼那書發部的這個的庶部就是他的步調這麼這麼的緩慢一直到現在才弄一個所謂的平台然後告訴我是中央社已經有興趣了中央社不是就國家通訊社嗎那當然是跟聽著聽著政府所講"},{"start":10766.661,"end":10769.544,"text":"所以我還是認為就是說我們抒發部的腳步要非常非常快那我們今天那我們可能有一些做保留那你抒發部本來就應該盡快的提出相關的版本"},{"start":10781.678,"end":10795.326,"text":"如果能夠在我們在協商的過程裡面在最後大會的在最後的處理之前能夠提出行政院版本大家一起來共同研商這是最好的我要講就是說真的大家不能再等了我剛才才收到明天"},{"start":10800.189,"end":10811.383,"text":"明天包含我們的傳播學系的一些我們的就是學生們他們也非常非常關心整個立法院在新聞媒體議價的進度他們明天也要召開記者會"},{"start":10815.268,"end":10817.829,"text":"所以我要講的說我們今天在討論這一個法案的時候我們可能討論的是包含新聞媒體的這個產業我們討論的是消費者還有一點就是我們新聞媒體產業最重要是來自於教育裡面的人才嘛那我剛才也特別講"},{"start":10836.119,"end":10848.532,"text":"當你的分潤都分不到然後數位平台就是吃肉然後我們的新聞媒體可能只能喝湯喝湯之後連包含新聞媒體的從業人員吃土這個是"},{"start":10852.135,"end":10861.626,"text":"這樣的狀況是大家不能允許的嘛所以我才講是說今天雖然你們提出了一個所謂的什麼聯合訂閱的平台我也不曉得長得怎麼樣還是很希望啦速發部能夠盡快盡快的非常有誠意的提出版本而不是只是想拖延了事謝謝"},{"start":10871.838,"end":10900.657,"text":"那個大家比較有質疑的就有些有基金有些沒有基金那這個當然有利弊關係你們現在又提出來有一些新的做法但是我必須要提醒我們數位部你提什麼方法都可以不要增加沒有關係不要增加老百姓的收賄這一點基本上兩會委員是不會同意的不會同意那這樣好不好"},{"start":10903.8,"end":10924.4,"text":"對 我想是這樣立法跟行政當然要互相尊重大家他們提出來的意見 請林鄭次也就簡單的跟大家簡短的跟大家回應一下 好不好讓大家知道你現在到底要做什麼"},{"start":10925.721,"end":10952.151,"text":"非常感謝各位委員的這些意見這個事情我們非常的努力也非常積極在處理那基本上我們現在的想法是說我們要從法律科技以及商業模式三種方式去解決那如果單單是從法律的話我們也看到了就是由那個加拿大跟澳洲的例子我們也可以看到說這個的確是有一些至愛難行之處如果加拿大跟"},{"start":10952.971,"end":10982.351,"text":"澳洲這個執行了這麼成功的話今天就不會有這麼多的辯論這麼多的討論那我們速發部我們現在當然是我們是一個比較科技為主的單位所以我們現在想辦法要從科技跟商業模式這邊先來解決那因為這件事情就如同之前范雲委員講的這是全世界第一個嘗試用這種方式去做我們速發部不是很慢事實上這個在這個地方我們是在嘗試一種新的做法但是任何科技上新的做法事實上都"},{"start":10983.011,"end":11002.792,"text":"坦白講都有一些風險就是說這個是不是大家能接受單單科技本身不難難的是說在這個溝通協調那也是如同我剛才所講的我們速發部很希望就是說立法院能再多給我們一些時間因為我們需要去跟媒體溝通我們必須要去跟平台溝通而"},{"start":11003.874,"end":11018.47,"text":"這個法案牽涉到的不單單是速發部事實上牽涉到兩個產業一個是數位平台產業數位平台產業的主管機關是速發部這個我們責任龐大我們絕對不會逃避責任可是另外一方面是媒體產業媒體產業這件事情並不是"},{"start":11023.007,"end":11043.985,"text":"抱歉了就是說以加拿大跟澳洲的那個的經驗來講其實加拿大的這個媒體溢價法是由他們文化遺產部主管的然後在澳洲是由他們的公相當於我們的公平交易委員會所主管的我在這邊不是說我要推卸責任我們不會推卸責任但是我們需要很"},{"start":11044.505,"end":11071.246,"text":"很多的時間去發比較多啦 不要講說很多的時間我們需要時間去發展 測試我們這個平台我們需要跟各方取得共識所以懇請各位委員盡量給我們多一點的時間我們會努力的 謝謝好 謝謝林政策好 來 大家請我要提醒 事實上媒體產業你不管各電視台 各報紙還有各雜誌 甚至公會還有學者專家跟學生"},{"start":11072.347,"end":11087.968,"text":"已經多次明確表達他們的意見了 連之前都在報紙上在媒體上 大家有看到他們共同聲明然後公聽會一開再開然後講到底誰在擋 他們也都知道到底誰在擋 他們也都知道"},{"start":11089.827,"end":11108.474,"text":"我今天是鄭重的呼籲啦就是說之前該做的溝通所以發展部是不是太慢了那趕快趕快快馬加鞭要趕快去做可是你不要講說他們的意見沒有表達出來這是一個那這段時間民進黨的立委當然有意見了事實上老實講你們也有版本那可是講"},{"start":11109.594,"end":11122.39,"text":"對啊 可是你們一直都不願意進來討論嘛我們只是開宮廷會 你連表達都也 對不對對啊 那黨團好了 那個林沙偉 林國城辦的你們就不好好發表意見沒有 我先是這樣講啦第一個 第一個"},{"start":11124.249,"end":11149.403,"text":"媒體產業跟記者跟教授跟學生剛剛宏偉講了明天連學生跟教授也要開記者會我要講我們不能再等了這是一個他們已經公開而且清楚的表達他們的意見了這是一個點第二個先求有再求好這是很重要的這跟時間賽跑我一直在呼籲今天如果大家有任何還有人還是有意見的那我們就先保留然後趕快送到黨團來協商把大家的意見"},{"start":11151.092,"end":11172.102,"text":"這個老蔣時間不能再拖了啦好不好那至於今天民進黨團或者是社會發展不能提出來新的這個新的這個什麼平台那你就趕快對外公開大家共同來討論好不好好最後請那個徐志傑那個召委來謝謝那個剛剛齊凱雄提到的就是說這大家都很重視啦民進黨也很重視啦你不能說我們民進黨沒重視那時間上"},{"start":11177.777,"end":11197.528,"text":"來啦 沒關係 我們就是論事啦就是論事 你如果要講到人那大家意見都不一樣啦 對不對那坦白講 剛剛要上架可以議價我們都不會 這很簡單啊問題我就說了 美台你就要議價他就不讓你上架 你兩個要選哪一個"},{"start":11198.755,"end":11221.491,"text":"大家都很清楚這個執行的困難點嘛你不能說我們都沒在做 我們民進黨也很重視這個問題其實我跟各位報告啦兩個委員會的委員 三黨大家都很共識那其他的部分 那我還是要呼籲我們行政單位 尤其數位部"},{"start":11223.533,"end":11244.089,"text":"確確實實我坦白這是我自己的感覺啦我在當召委三四月的時候我排這個我也跟你們協調你們說不要影響我們這個關稅談判我也很配合啊就不排啦那已經拖了三個月你現在"},{"start":11245.33,"end":11260.26,"text":"你前天去看我說能不能再不要審我說不可能的是那這個我們也不要去追究責任未來七四一定會面臨這個問題所以要拜託我們數位部所以"},{"start":11261.328,"end":11288.985,"text":"就趕快提新方案然後大家來討論所以這個經過兩個委員會我平常已經講我們交通委員會跟那個我們文教啊我坦白講大家都很和諧的是針對問題來解決大家都很認真所以我不要再講了所以我還是希望我還是希望盡快好不好盡快把這個共識啊"},{"start":11290.401,"end":11318.4,"text":"因為剛剛張綺凱委員就是講的部分我還是要平衡一下就是林楚瑩委員我們都辦過公聽會那大家應該有聽得出來我們各自在跟不同的新聞媒體產業裡面有雜誌的有電子的各式各樣的還有新聞學者我還有特別跟新聞工作者記者公會溝通那我希望速發部你們那個新方也盡速跟這個產業界學界還有新聞工作者都要溝通"},{"start":11320.862,"end":11335.131,"text":"來 檢審大家好 好 好 盡快啦 好不好好 另外這樣 好不好第七條跟第八條跟第九條都是基金相關聯所以基金的相關聯是"},{"start":11337.27,"end":11362.697,"text":"差距很大那我是建議因為第八案有修正動議讓修正動議來那個宣讀一下我們再來做最後的裁決也就是七八九都是基金有關所以我們要如何裁就把那個修正動議宣讀一下我們再來做決定好不好來請這個議事輪元宣讀"},{"start":11366.246,"end":11391.501,"text":"宣任動議中訂第十四條對照民眾黨黨團提案第八條新聞媒體與數位平台發展基金之裁員如下一數位平台業者之捐贈收入二國內外公司機構團體之捐贈三本基金之資行收入四其他有關收入宣任動議十四"},{"start":11394.099,"end":11400.344,"text":"宣動議9提案委員許智傑、林楚英等宣動議14"},{"start":11403.014,"end":11427.265,"text":"修正第八條文字內容為數位化新聞基金資來源如下依數位平台業及閱聽人資捐贈收入而新聞媒體數位化訂閱平台之首以三本基金資之息收入是其他有關收入整理第八條質疑主管機關的設立數位化捐贈機制鼓勵閱聽人捐贈與數位化新聞基金"},{"start":11428.065,"end":11433.448,"text":"好 各位委員在這裡啊跟各位報告一下 因為我看這個基金啊剛才我講第八條跟第九條 其實"},{"start":11457.239,"end":11481.361,"text":"所有基金設置有關的通通到了15條第10條第11條第12條第13條以及第14條跟第15條通通都是基金所以請示各位委員是不是到15條都保留這樣好不好還有一點"},{"start":11482.302,"end":11510.576,"text":"那個還有修正動議嗎到15條我有15條修正動議我跟民主與委員都有修正動議就一起保留好 那個這樣好不好那個讓魯明哲委員他還沒有發言讓他發言一下我們就宣讀我們有關到15條以內的修正動議好不好來好 謝謝召委各位立委還有我們今天所有的政府官員我本來是要在第9條的時候來提供一些我個人的意見"},{"start":11511.806,"end":11530.858,"text":"第一個我是寧可相信世上有鬼也不相信政府委託的機關獨立這是我個人的立場我絕對不相信好不好所以如果要把這樣的去還是你舉個例子我們現在所謂的獨立公正的機關NCC"},{"start":11533.501,"end":11547.817,"text":"總選會大法官所以說也許我們是這個大家已經看到怕了所以你要到底委託什麼機關如果真的要採取基金制的話我個人建議要讓基金它只是一個"},{"start":11548.618,"end":11562.834,"text":"能夠發錢的機構讓所有大數據已經可以計算每一條新聞它的影響力它的點閱次它的甚至一些在社會裡面不管你任何計算標準這大數據把它算完"},{"start":11563.655,"end":11582.491,"text":"而且這個錢不管是平台業者能夠投入多少的錢要分的至少要八成在做這件事情現在很多的包括了媒體國際交流我的天啊你沒有跟他講清楚他八成來弄這個他只補助他喜歡的媒體這絕對讓這個新聞有價這件事情變成笑話"},{"start":11587.876,"end":11611.703,"text":"因為這個錢根本沒有回歸在補助新聞這件事情所以我覺得如果是基金要讓他可以行政的自己的權利要到最少要八成在處理在新聞 製播要回饋給這些媒體我覺得至少要做一件事其他你說什麼教育啊什麼協助數位轉型都可以最多一成兩成啊"},{"start":11612.723,"end":11639.481,"text":"最多一層兩層不然齁這個事情跟我們現在吵了半天的立法絕對一點這個效果都沒達到個人的意見謝謝好 謝謝魯明哲委員齁那個請這個行政單位政治這裡你要把它記錄起來今天所有兩會的委員所建議的東西我要拜託你們把它列入你們未來要制定跟基金設定的一些注意的事項齁"},{"start":11640.442,"end":11657.877,"text":"那現在我跟各位委員報告我們從第8到15條因為有修正動議就請朗誦那個朗讀以後我們再來做最後的決定是不是請議事人員宣讀那個修正動議繼續宣讀修正動議9"},{"start":11664.284,"end":11691.069,"text":"委員林楚英提案政變第15條文件內容為數位平台每年捐贈達一定金額與新聞媒體與數位平台發展基金者不適用本法第二章及第三章之規定傾向一定金額之標準由主管機關定資數位平台與新聞媒體經議價達成共識者得減輕或免除本法第四章之規定傾向這個認定程序減輕比例及其他相關事項由主管機關定資"},{"start":11692.529,"end":11717.014,"text":"提案人委員許志傑林楚英等修正動議14委員范雲等提案第14條修正後文字為數位化新聞基金制運用管理及相關委託監督思想之辦法由主管機關定制前項數位化基金制分配由獨立公證之非營利機構依多元指標定制"},{"start":11717.634,"end":11734.727,"text":"第十五條修正後文字內容為數位平台業每年捐贈達美年本地廣告年度營業額之百分之五以上與數位化新聞基金者不適用本法第三章之規定提案人委員許志傑范雲等宣布完畢"},{"start":11739.577,"end":11765.429,"text":"修正動議都已經那個那個宣讀完畢那個特別是不是容許主席做這樣才定有關基金的部分我們全數保留然後包括修正動議我們全數保留這樣大家委員有沒有意見好沒有意見我們就到15條以前基金的部分全部全數保留來接下來我們第三張的議價"},{"start":11767.421,"end":11795.115,"text":"跟張明 來 各位有沒有意見沒有好 沒有意見 那我們還是保留 是不是啊好 好 保留 來不是啦 這個議價應該可以通過吧來來 那個喔媒體有價 大家都支持好 那議價跟上價或是議價跟下價這個是真的要一起考量啦"},{"start":11796.52,"end":11809.798,"text":"我當然希望我通通可以議價我通通可以上價我剛剛提過了啦但是你要跟他議價他就給你下價這個我們要考量啦不要三輸啦所以這個部分我建議還是保留啦"},{"start":11811.414,"end":11840.151,"text":"好啦好啦 那個各位這個議價也不可能跑得掉啊這個媒體議價法裡面可能這個議價怎麼會有任何意見你只是議價怎麼讓它完整或者不會出現你講的問題啊這第三名要留著啦 要不要好啦好啦 四姊還要堅持好啦好啦 來 各位委員我們還是保留好不好齁沒差這兩億啦 保留好不好好 來 接下來好 第16條"},{"start":11842.182,"end":11860.353,"text":"有修正動議來請那個先讀修正動議11民眾黨黨團提案修正第16條在第一項的後段修正後文字為平台利用之情形數位科技平台業進行溢價行商第三項修正為第一項"},{"start":11861.354,"end":11888.252,"text":"第一項議價協商之申請程序協商形式進行程序及其他應遵循事項之辦法由儲管機關令以命令定之中令第四項以及第五項文字利用為已完成登記的新聞媒體業者若與數位平台協商調解或仲裁後達成協議金額為確保上述資金的用途符合法律規範符合公平合理原則應自鎖"},{"start":11890.013,"end":11918.056,"text":"所獲金額中提供一定比例專款用於提升新聞工作者的薪資與勞動條件以致改善新聞產業的工作環境並強化專業實務的品質主管機關的要求媒體業者提交資金運用的書面說明或其他佐證資料並得進行必要的查核作業以確保其資金運用透明度及合理性提案人委員您過程等宣布完畢"},{"start":11920.289,"end":11922.8,"text":"說明徵定二跟三 宣布完畢"},{"start":11928.627,"end":11953.155,"text":"這個議價齁 這個這麼共識都保留的因為我在看這個議價我剛剛有跟各位報告是用台灣民眾黨的版本作為基準所以到19條也是跟議價有關也是跟議價有關所以是否請教我們各位委員也是保留然後把修正動議也納入一併保留大家有沒有意見到19條沒有意見那我們就"},{"start":11956.087,"end":11960.691,"text":"好 19條還有先讀嗎好 那就一併先讀好不好一併去 連到19條19條有修正動議的修正動議 請委員參與修正動議3"},{"start":11979.079,"end":11988.411,"text":"委員王宏威等20人提案修正第6條在第一項的後段授權兼修正為使用報酬"},{"start":11990.592,"end":12016.657,"text":"第三項前段修正為有關使用報酬資協議應以一定金額加一定比例廣告收入等方式為之徵令第四項以及第五項文字內容為數位平台經營者應等於誠實信用對於以取得合法授權或正依本法進行溢價協商中之新聞內容不得無故降低其曝光或排序以確保"},{"start":12018.297,"end":12047.559,"text":"議價協商公平性與有效性就影響新聞內容排序與相關廣告收入自演算法進行變更前提供通知與登記之新聞媒體此類通知必須在變更實施前至少14天發出若涉檢集公共利益事項的於變更後48小時內補行通知且通知因清楚描述變更內容及其潛在影響並需具備易於理解的資料"},{"start":12049.019,"end":12063.363,"text":"第三項協議中應提撥一定比例使用報酬專用於改善新聞工作者之待遇說明針列二第二任委員魯明澤、王宏威等繼續宣讀修正動議十二"},{"start":12071.752,"end":12090.64,"text":"民進黨黨團提案修正第十八條徵定第二項文字內容為主管機關應提供必要之技術與程序協助以促進前項新聞媒體業者之協同合作與溢價進行在說明的部分修正一以及徵定二宣讀完畢"},{"start":12100.827,"end":12125.072,"text":"因為這個議價的部分都已經保留所以我特別建議就是說這個部分也一併保留也就是修正動議的部分也一併保留16到19一併保留那大家有沒有意見好沒有意見的話我們就進行第四章的仲裁第四章的仲裁大家有沒有意見"},{"start":12126.803,"end":12155.597,"text":"好那保留保留那請各位委員我們還是保留來接下來就是好啦好啦好啦好啦來保留來接下來這個那就包括林楚英委員的那個那個調解仲裁這個部分也保留"},{"start":12157.366,"end":12177.89,"text":"好那接下來第20條來有沒有修正動議有沒有好請先讀修正動議13民眾黨黨團提案修正第20條在第一項的序文後段徵定對方當事人不得拒絕等文字提案人委員寧國誠等繼續宣讀修正動議4"},{"start":12185.114,"end":12209.342,"text":"委員王宏威等二十人提案修正第九條第一項的續文墨據徵定對方當事人不得拒絕等文字第一項的第一款墨據將授權經修正為使用報酬等文字第二項的後段也是將授權經修正為使用報酬等文字第五第五項第五項"},{"start":12213.427,"end":12241.125,"text":"前段的文字修正為仲裁庭由三位仲裁人組成須有一位以上成一仲裁法在仲裁機構登記具有實際仲裁經驗之仲裁人一位應具備新聞媒體產業或數位經濟領域專業知識之專業人士並確保仲裁人組成之多元性與專業性在說明的部分甄列二"},{"start":12242.765,"end":12250.342,"text":"修正動 繼續宣讀修正第二任委員吳明哲 王鴻薇等 繼續宣讀修正動議五"},{"start":12253.359,"end":12276.941,"text":"委員王宏威等二十人提案修正第四條第四項修正為一第二項請求提出資訊涉及營業秘密者當事人得申請智慧財產及商業法院準用智慧財產案件審理法和法有關秘密保持命令之規定提案人委員盧明哲王宏威等"},{"start":12278.503,"end":12292.341,"text":"修正動議六委員王洪威等二十人提案修正第十一條第一項的後段也是將授權金修正為使用報酬提案人委員魯明哲、王洪威等修正動議七"},{"start":12293.843,"end":12320.915,"text":"委員王宏威等二十人提案修正第十二條第二項修正後文字內容為仲裁庭採納最終報價前的調整其金額或令自行裁決其認為最能符合公共利益及產業平衡發展之合理金額以符合公共利益第三項的序文有做修正在仲裁判斷的後面修正為駁回調整或自行裁決最終報價"},{"start":12323.576,"end":12348.176,"text":"然後徵訂第一款文字內容為一數位平台經營者於前一年會計年度在廣告及其他數位服務總營收原第一款自第六款 第一為第二款自第七款在說明的部分徵列三提案人委員魯明哲 王紅薇等修正動議八"},{"start":12350.598,"end":12366.233,"text":"委員王宏威等二十人提案修正第四條序文的後段修正為得處新台幣五十萬元以上兩千萬元以下罰款並得按次連續處罰在第一款以及第二款"},{"start":12367.354,"end":12371.617,"text":"做修正 修正後文字為1違反第5條第5項 2違反第6條第1項第3項第4項說明1的前短修正為1對於違反誠實信用協商義務然後甄列說明2字5"},{"start":12386.727,"end":12414.884,"text":"聽得完畢好各位委員因為這個跟這個仲裁的部分仲裁調解這個部分那也已經保留所以這個到22案都跟這個仲裁這個有關那我們是不是也是一樣保留然後把修正動議也一併保留這樣大家有沒有意見好沒有意見那我們就保留來接下來第二"},{"start":12416.075,"end":12441.03,"text":"第五章負責的部分張敏來第五章大家有沒有意見有修正動議來我們先讀修正動議修正動議九委員林楚英等提案原提案的第四章第十三條第十四條順移為第五章第十六條以及第十七條"},{"start":12442.028,"end":12459.733,"text":"提案人委員許志傑林楚英等宣讀完畢宣讀完畢了嗎好來個各位那個這個是不是也也保留好不好也保留來那這個2323案有修正動議來請請先讀"},{"start":12466.857,"end":12484.787,"text":"都宣讀完畢了那這個負責的部分跟23、24都是跟負責有關所以我們是不是把修正動議也保留那其他的條文也保留這樣大家有沒有意見沒有好像大家有意見"},{"start":12489.653,"end":12496.418,"text":"沒有意見吧沒有好沒有意見好那我們現在有附帶決議請宣讀宣讀附帶決議"},{"start":12505.621,"end":12530.389,"text":"數位科技平台業者於本法實施前以長期持續性與其所利用內容自新聞媒體完成授權協議以營運特定服務且於本法施行後持續透過對等互惠方式取得新聞媒體授權協議者主管機關的暫不公告為數位科技平台經營者提案人委員林國成等宣布完畢"},{"start":12533.308,"end":12554.814,"text":"好 各位這個附帶結議我們也一併保留送那個啦 好不好好 那以上對於我們這個我們這個新聞媒體數位平台的這些議價華有關各委員所提出來的有關個條我們都已經逐條討論完畢那這個"},{"start":12561.291,"end":12583.649,"text":"好 那個協商完畢 做以下的宣示各草案 各草案法案名稱以及以及全部章名條文含修正動議及附帶結議 經已保留 送宴會處理大家有沒有意見"},{"start":12586.159,"end":12612.613,"text":"主席抱歉因為這個案子老實講是非常的急媒體產業跟記者還有這個學者專家跟學生都在等那如果照今天這個當然今天是一個有新的這個進展今天等於是前案已經送出交通委員會那可是如果要進入這個凍結一個月這個會期可能就來不及所以我是請求也拜託大家第一個是不是社會發展部的速度要加快一點那第二個就是"},{"start":12613.613,"end":12620.96,"text":"希望我們盡快召開這個草野協商力爭這個會期結束之前可以完成三讀謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱的建議好 針對本日會議做以下的決議一 並按審查完"},{"start":12631.63,"end":12649.715,"text":"完畢完畢泥鋸審查報告提報宴會討論宴會討論前需交由黨團協商宴會討論時由林昭吉人國臣做補充說明"},{"start":12651.215,"end":12668.735,"text":"第二條字引述條文部分文字及法字用於授權主席及議事人員整理本日會議我們現在宣布結束"},{"start":12669.295,"end":12695.867,"text":"那特別請行政機關要盡快把這件事情有什麼新的看法盡量把版本提出來以利在整個我們宴會裡面做一個那個充分的這些通過法條的精準性那今天我們宣布上會謝謝各位委員謝謝各位官員謝謝各位媒體謝謝大家謝謝"},{"start":12701.182,"end":12705.204,"text":"這哪裡是我可以快的這哪裡是我能快的這哪裡是我能快的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}