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今天才招委才排這個委員會嘛那你們註銷時間是什麼時候你們註銷時間是什麼時候我們應該這兩天會完成相關的公告程序"},{"start":189.225,"end":212.117,"text":"所以我們的速度也相當快,也符合大家的關注跟期待你們的速度沒有相當快,速度相當快就不會搞到兩年之後你們是113年2月26號訂的你們是預計今年的7月要施行嘛對不對然後才會有這麼大的一個爭論嘛然後你們現在是延期,然後你講說要註銷了程序還沒有找到註銷,但是你們是朝向註銷嘛"},{"start":214.594,"end":225.204,"text":"那你叫毛爸毛媽然後獸醫師還有藥師如果信賴你們你們在短期之內可以訂定一個新的辦法然後大家對這個辦法的內容"},{"start":226.57,"end":252.77,"text":"是大家都可以接受的那如果是大家都可以接受的為什麼在7月1號上路之前為什麼不趕快去做調整修正在既有的你們已經成案然後這個管理辦公告的過程裡面去做調整去做修正哪有你們自己訂的東西然後7月1號上路然後用人民表決之後然後再延期然後現在你又宣布註銷然後你又要認定心理的辦法"},{"start":257.162,"end":268.069,"text":"我聽不懂,因為我在台口我怎麼聽得懂我怎麼聽得懂怎麼會有這樣一個政府在做面對這種事情的處理方式是如此的粗糙沒關係,那你現在在答覆我,祝蕭"},{"start":273.911,"end":295.646,"text":"要再訂出新的一個草案出來對不對一個辦法辦法嘛就是草案還是一個還沒有完成之前就是草案對不對然後我們跟衛福部會會嫌然後在討論的過程中現在大概都已經有聚焦衛福部為什麼要可以討論因為我們是會嫌公佈使用的是人用藥所以一定是會嫌來公佈"},{"start":297.667,"end":316.472,"text":"部長剛剛已經講得很清楚,要設法規範就是人類的用藥,那你的動物用藥他為什麼要跟你溝通?那如果可以溝通為什麼你們不進場溝通?你們為什麼之前就不溝通好?你們為什麼要留在這個法註銷之後還可以溝通?"},{"start":316.994,"end":336.153,"text":"第一個我們是依照法規啦也就是說要是我們這條藥品販賣業者不得兼受農藥都用藥品或其他毒性化學物質所以要寫報告委員就是你們期待惡劣不修不是不是那個我要再讓我完整說明一下就是其實這個辦法之前也是依照動物保護法第四條第三條"},{"start":336.873,"end":365.248,"text":"向的一個規定所延伸出來那這個因為使用到人用藥所以一定是要會嫌衛福部畢竟衛福部是我們的人用藥的主管機關而且在於人用藥這塊的管理已經數十年非常的穩健成熟那現在有很多的藥劑要轉為動保用藥當然一定要有這個衛福部食藥署一起共同大家來做討論市長你多說了嘛你們的辦法名稱你要不要唸一次給大家聽"},{"start":366.345,"end":389.744,"text":"就人用藥 藥品對 用於犬貓及非經濟動物的管理辦法對 要訂這個辦法的時候對 要訂這個辦法不管母啊 豬啊 不管有沒有跟衛生部溝通過有啊 一定有嘛這個就是這樣子有一定的脈絡下來已經溝通過了嘛 對不對而且是從104年開始就不斷的溝通所以到12年的時候有三次的預告"},{"start":396.389,"end":408.388,"text":"整個法規是有三次的預告三次的預告才成行所以切一號要執行嘛對不對他兩年緩衝期對嘛對嘛原本就都三次的預告之後然後切一號執行嘛對不對然後上個禮拜五用表決"},{"start":411.704,"end":435.474,"text":"我應該這樣講是說說延後嘛那你現在來委會說註銷嘛我沒有聽說嘛不對嘛這個中間都有跟衛福部溝通嘛對嘛啊你現在要再怎麼溝通你把這個法廢掉之後你要再怎麼跟衛福部溝通部長這個旁邊啊我還有一點時間那你跟部長可以溝通一下嘛你們再定一個新的一個草案出來然後部長願意接受的話你們籌"},{"start":437.676,"end":461.354,"text":"這個差異在什麼地方在你們這個辦法的第幾條 第一條 第二條 第三條 第五條絕對會提出一個更妥適的辦法所以就代表你們這兩年多來公告的這個法律就是不妥適嘛不是不妥適 而是時空背景兩面之下什麼叫時空背景 兩年而已啊這兩年 另外有疫情 這兩年還是叫非洲豬瘟"},{"start":463.251,"end":467.913,"text":"這兩年施工背景差在什麼地方這兩年施工背景部長換人了人事物更動了所以施工背景不一樣了你去你說清楚啊我今天是要凸顯一個點啦公告三次企業要實施最終預告三次啦預告三次好最終企業要上路然後再上禮拜五"},{"start":494.624,"end":515.917,"text":"現場與會的專家學者教授團體的代表毛爸媽媽舉手表決不同意好就延期你現在還宣布說直接這個辦法註銷然後要跟衛生部可以溝通要推出一個更好的符合現在時空背景的辦法你你跟我這樣聽我們是立法機關"},{"start":521.693,"end":545.233,"text":"兩年的立法 時空變形不一樣你要跟我講 差在什麼地方簡單就好 時間到了差在什麼地方你訂定了一個新的辦法跟現在你們要促銷這個辦法因為時空變形的差異 差在什麼地方簡單講一下就好好 如果我這個政策的推動上在針對毛小孩 不管他將來的意願你還是沒有講重點啦 是部長不一樣了還是署長不一樣了"},{"start":548.112,"end":550.715,"text":"我們要解決的事還是事的部分你講一項還是物的部分你講一項你同樣講不出來了"},{"start":564.141,"end":584.792,"text":"我們還是務實的要解決這個當然是務實啊 總不務實 你們非常務實啊你們定的辦法是在讓相關的團體像讓所有的毛爸毛媽還有這些數位式的代表這個要事的代表用現場表決的多數不同意實施那就照這樣延期 然後你今天來講註銷然後你會定更好的一個方法出來 辦法出來"},{"start":591.94,"end":615.096,"text":"我就聽不太懂所以我才會那可不可以就是我們會快速的來處理這個問題那也會一個禮拜對應該是一個禮拜以後我不是說定辦法而是相關的程序對各界呼應最重要的這個一個的期待的部分我想我們都可以來做最快是什麼時候嘛"},{"start":615.976,"end":635.164,"text":"一個禮拜一個月應該是在這幾天應該如果是拍板定案應該就就會對外界的公告也就是說這個辦法不會實施那不會實施就不會有現在所產生的這一些的問題包括夜間包括你你事主要自行到要舉一次購買"},{"start":636.525,"end":652.343,"text":"一次性 一支性 然後一個這樣的一個束縛還有標籤的束縛 那還有這些像譬如說氧氣桶氧氣桶的供應的問題等等這些實務上的問題大概都可以解決今天張委在排這樣一個專報告 應該署長你來要叫做有備而來"},{"start":657.469,"end":679.668,"text":"可是我覺得你們有備而來反而會讓我覺得你們已經前面捅了一個窟窿這麼大了然後這麼大的一個讓外界對政府訂定的相關的這樣的一個管理辦法是用一個表決的方式來讓它予以延期之後然後又要再訂定一個新的辦法然後到現在"},{"start":680.929,"end":699.194,"text":"講的是會更加周全因為施工背景不一樣所以原有的辦法裡面主動願意把它廢棄掉把它註銷掉但是你還是一樣沒有辦法答覆委員會說那你新的辦法的範疇內容到底跟外務部的溝通會不會更加的順暢"},{"start":700.254,"end":714.132,"text":"然後引論而解的是在第幾條裡面的範圍是已經跟衛務部還有相關的單位相關的分局代表都已經溝通了所以訂這個辦法之後預告應該可以很盡快的就來做這個程序上的動作"},{"start":715.674,"end":735.847,"text":"包括委員我剛剛應該答覆的內容是肯定的也就是說剛剛所講說兩部之間的溝通的會議朝向的方向解決的目標其實這個都已經有快速的凝聚共識了所以我們就可以往這個更周延的辦法那我就聽你一句話叫你的快速是多快速一個禮拜兩個禮拜三個禮拜"},{"start":744.98,"end":745.803,"text":"好 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:54.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:01.919000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請部長，還有防檢署署長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:01.919000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:02.919000+08:00","text":"請石部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:01.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:03.401000+08:00","text":"劉委員早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:06.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:02.265000+08:00","text":"今天的委員會感謝召委特別排這個專案報告，基本上因為這個戰火是從經濟委員會延燒到衛環委員會，那兩個處理不一樣，現在你看一個是部長，一個是農業部的署長，在這邊講相關的人類用藥跟動物用藥，基本上就已經有邏輯上的衝突了，然後113年去訂定的相關管理辦法，最終農業部面對這麼多毛爸毛媽這樣的抗議，藥局的反彈，然後獸醫師沒辦法得到正確的、未來執行的方式，一個行政機關、主責機關訂的辦法，經過兩年的洗禮、兩年的討論、兩年的多方接觸，最終要把它廢掉，怎麼會這樣？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:02.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:02.465000+08:00","text":"現場表決，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:03.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:30.653000+08:00","text":"署長，你們次長是用舉手表決，把你們訂了且公告兩年多的辦法延期，那延期不代表問題解決，對不對？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:31.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:38.749000+08:00","text":"我剛剛在臺下也有聽到你講的，這個辦法廢掉了，你們要趕快……這是延期喔！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:39.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:45.672000+08:00","text":"你們次長講是延期，你說要把它廢掉，然後要再另訂新的辦法出來嘛！","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:45.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:46.753000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:46.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:51.515000+08:00","text":"報告委員，是註銷，因為還沒有實施，不能用廢止。好啦！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:52.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:53.096000+08:00","text":"註銷，反正就是不見了啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:53.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:54.277000+08:00","text":"簡單講就是這樣嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:55.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:00.120000+08:00","text":"然後你說會訂定新的辦法出來，對不對？是的。多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:00.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:03.162000+08:00","text":"再兩年？我想……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:03.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:06.644000+08:00","text":"然後兩年之後，再用舉手表決再把它註銷？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:08.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:13.960000+08:00","text":"還是一年，然後如果又反彈，然後再把它註銷？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:14.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:15.301000+08:00","text":"邏輯上是這樣。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:15.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:18.665000+08:00","text":"報告委員，確實這兩年的改變真的非常大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:19.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:21.668000+08:00","text":"你那天有沒有在現場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:21.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:21.968000+08:00","text":"我有在現場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:21.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:23.450000+08:00","text":"這兩年改變有多大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:23.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:35.107000+08:00","text":"這兩年有疫情、這兩年有非洲豬瘟，導致你們這個辦法，基本上要透過……還真民主，透過這樣的一個表決方式來註銷？不是。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:35.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:35.848000+08:00","text":"那天是延期啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:36.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:37.889000+08:00","text":"你是現在直接在這邊宣布是註銷喔！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:39.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:40.531000+08:00","text":"你跟次長講好了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:40.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:41.972000+08:00","text":"跟部長講好了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:41.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:42.953000+08:00","text":"這個辦法就註銷？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:42.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:43.993000+08:00","text":"還是公告註銷？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:43.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:44.874000+08:00","text":"還是當天就註銷了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:45.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:47.896000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個真的是社會關注的案子，然後第二個是……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:48.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:50.658000+08:00","text":"當然是社會關注，今天召委才會排這個委員會嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:51.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:52.399000+08:00","text":"你們註銷是什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:52.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:53.200000+08:00","text":"你們註銷的時間是什麼時候？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:54.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:05.087000+08:00","text":"應該這兩天會完成相關的公告程序，所以我們的速度也相當快，也符合大家的關注跟期待。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:06.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:07.488000+08:00","text":"你們的速度沒有相當快啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:07.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:14.952000+08:00","text":"速度相當快就不會搞到兩年之後，你們是113年2月26號定的，你們是預計今年的7月1號施行，對不對？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:14.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:16.473000+08:00","text":"然後才會有這麼大的爭論嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:16.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:24.097000+08:00","text":"然後你們現在是延期，然後你講說要註銷了，程序還沒有走到註銷，但是你們就朝向註銷。是的。對嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:26.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:33.380000+08:00","text":"那你叫毛爸毛媽、獸醫師，還有藥師如何信賴你們？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:33.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:45.815000+08:00","text":"你們在短期之內可以另訂一個新的辦法，然後大家對這個辦法的內容是大家都可以接受的，那如果是大家都可以接受的，為什麼不在7月1號上路之前趕快去做調整修正？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:46.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:55.623000+08:00","text":"這既有的，你們已經成案，然後在公告的過程裡面去做調整、去做修正，哪有你們自己訂的東西？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:56.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:19.589000+08:00","text":"7月1號上路，然後用人民表決之後，然後再延期，然後現在你又宣布註銷，然後你又要另訂新的辦法，我聽不懂，我怎麼聽都聽不懂，怎麼會有這樣的一個政府面對這種事情的處理方式是如此的粗糙。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:19.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:29.073000+08:00","text":"沒關係，那你現在答復我，註銷了，要再訂出新的一個草案出來，對不對？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:29.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:29.434000+08:00","text":"一個辦法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:30.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:34.957000+08:00","text":"辦法，還沒有完成之前就是草案，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:35.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:40.201000+08:00","text":"我們跟衛福部會會銜，然後在討論的過程中，雖然大概都已經有聚焦，因為方向……","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:41.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:42.903000+08:00","text":"衛福部為什麼要跟你討論？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:42.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:47.626000+08:00","text":"因為我們是會銜公布，使用的是人用藥，所以一定是會銜來公布，所以也是……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:49.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:56.049000+08:00","text":"部長剛剛已經講得很清楚，藥事法的規範就是人類的用藥。是。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:56.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:57.769000+08:00","text":"那你的動物用藥，他為什麼要跟你溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:00.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:01.990000+08:00","text":"如果可以溝通，為什麼你不儘早溝通？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:03.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:04.631000+08:00","text":"你為什麼之前就不溝通好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:05.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:08.452000+08:00","text":"你們為什麼要等到這個法註銷之後才可以溝通？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:08.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:11.016000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們是依照法規，也就是說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:12.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:17.442000+08:00","text":"藥師法規定販賣業者不得兼售農藥、動物用藥品或其他毒性化學物質。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:17.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:18.804000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:19.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:19.985000+08:00","text":"你們期待衛福部修？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:20.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:43.461000+08:00","text":"不是，讓我完整說明一下，其實這個辦法之前也是依照動物保護法第四條第三項的規定所延伸出來，這個因為使用到人用藥，所以一定是要會銜衛福部，畢竟衛福部是人用藥的主管機關，而且在於人用藥這塊的管理已經數十年，非常的穩健成熟。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:44.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:52.585000+08:00","text":"那現在有很多藥劑要轉為動保用藥，當然一定要有衛福部食藥署一起共同，大家來做討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:53.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:57.248000+08:00","text":"署長，你多說了嘛，你們的辦法名稱要不要唸一次給大家聽？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:58.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:04.650000+08:00","text":"人用藥品用於犬貓及非經濟動物之使用管理辦法。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:06.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:14.898000+08:00","text":"對，在訂這個辦法的時候，不管是母法、子法、執行法，不管，有沒有跟衛福部溝通過？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:14.898000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:16.380000+08:00","text":"有，這個辦法就是……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:16.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:16.800000+08:00","text":"一定有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:17.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:19.102000+08:00","text":"這個就是有一定的脈絡下來。是嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:19.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:20.143000+08:00","text":"就是有溝通過了嘛，對不對？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:20.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:21.724000+08:00","text":"而且是從104年開始就不斷地溝通，所以到112年的時候有3次預告。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:21.724000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:28.389000+08:00","text":"對，有3次預告嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:28.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:32.235000+08:00","text":"整個法規是經3次預告才成形的。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:32.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:33.777000+08:00","text":"所以7月1號要執行，對不對？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:33.777000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:36.651500+08:00","text":"有2年的緩衝期。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:36.651500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:39.526000+08:00","text":"對，但原本是經3次預告之後，7月1號執要行嘛，對不對？是的。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:39.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:40.388000+08:00","text":"然後上個禮拜五用表決的？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:43.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:44.825000+08:00","text":"我應該這樣講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:44.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:45.185000+08:00","text":"是要延後嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:45.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:49.106000+08:00","text":"你現在來委員會說要註銷，我沒聽錯吧？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:51.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:53.348000+08:00","text":"這中間都有跟衛福部溝通嗎？對嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:54.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:55.229000+08:00","text":"那你現在要再怎麼溝通？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:55.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:58.490000+08:00","text":"你把這個法廢掉之後，要再怎麼跟衛福部溝通？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:58.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:59.150000+08:00","text":"部長就在旁邊啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:59.150000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:00.551000+08:00","text":"情境改變了、時空改變了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:00.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:10.377000+08:00","text":"我還有一點時間讓你跟部長溝通一下，你們再訂一個新的草案出來，然後在部長願意接受的範疇，這個差異在什麼地方？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:12.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:13.339000+08:00","text":"這個差異在你們這個辦法的第幾條？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:13.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:16.141000+08:00","text":"是第一條、第二條、第三條、第五條？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:16.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:17.662000+08:00","text":"我們是雙部長會議，絕對會提出一個更妥適的辦法。","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:18.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:22.746000+08:00","text":"所以這就代表你們在這兩年多來，公告的這個法律就是不妥適的嘛！","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:25.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:27.269000+08:00","text":"不是不妥適，而是在時空背景的改變之下……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:27.269000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:28.269000+08:00","text":"就是不妥適嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:27.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:28.390000+08:00","text":"什麼叫時空背景？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:28.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:29.130000+08:00","text":"兩年而已啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:29.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:31.332000+08:00","text":"是這兩年有疫情？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:32.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:33.334000+08:00","text":"這兩年還是叫非洲豬瘟。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:35.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:35.491000+08:00","text":"這兩年的時空背景是差在什麼地方？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:35.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:36.532000+08:00","text":"這兩年的時空背景是部長換人了、人事物更動了，所以時空背景不一樣了，你具體說清楚啊！","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:36.552000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.292000+08:00","text":"我今天是要凸顯一個點，公告了3次，7月1號實施。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.452000+08:00","text":"是預告3次。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.752000+08:00","text":"預告3次，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:14.989000+08:00","text":"最終7月1號上路，結果在上禮拜五，現場與會的專家、學者、教授、團體的代表、毛爸、毛媽舉手表決，不同意，好，就延期。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:15.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:27.217000+08:00","text":"你現在來宣布這個辦法直接註銷，然後要跟衛福部溝通，訂出一個更好的、符合現在時空背景的辦法。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:27.217000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:28.217000+08:00","text":"你是在講給誰聽啊！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:27.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:27.917000+08:00","text":"我們是立法機關欸！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:33.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:37.036000+08:00","text":"2年的立法，時空背景不一樣，你來跟我講差在什麼地方？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:37.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:40.559000+08:00","text":"簡單就好，時間到了，是差在什麼地方？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:41.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:47.645000+08:00","text":"另訂一個新的辦法跟現在你們要註銷的這個辦法，因時空背景的差異是差在什麼地方？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:48.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:48.846000+08:00","text":"簡單講一下就好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:49.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:54.571000+08:00","text":"好，在這個政策的推動上，針對毛小孩，不管牠將來的醫療……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:54.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:55.412000+08:00","text":"你還是沒有講重點啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:55.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:57.213000+08:00","text":"是部長不一樣了，還是署長不一樣了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:57.213000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:58.712500+08:00","text":"我想，這個不是因人設事啦！","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:58.712500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:00.212000+08:00","text":"時空背景牽涉到的就是人、事、物嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:00.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:00.352000+08:00","text":"我們要解決的是……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:00.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:01.373000+08:00","text":"還是就事的部分你講一項？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:01.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:02.234000+08:00","text":"還是物的部分你講一項？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:02.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:02.695000+08:00","text":"你都講不出來啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:16.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:17.622000+08:00","text":"我們還是要務實地解決這個問題。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:17.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:18.202000+08:00","text":"當然要務實啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:18.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:19.183000+08:00","text":"怎麼會不務實？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:19.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:19.623000+08:00","text":"你們非常務實啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:20.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:30.589000+08:00","text":"你們訂了辦法是在讓相關的團體、讓所有的毛爸、毛媽還有這些獸醫師代表、藥師的代表去現場表決。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:31.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:36.792000+08:00","text":"多數不同意實施，那就照這樣延期，然後你今天來講註銷，而你會訂更好的方法、辦法出來。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:43.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:46.722000+08:00","text":"我就聽不太懂，所以我才會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:46.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:52.226000+08:00","text":"那可不可以……我們會快速地來處理這個問題……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:52.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:53.226000+08:00","text":"你們的快速有多快速？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:53.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:53.166000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:53.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:05.975000+08:00","text":"對，一個禮拜以後……我不是說訂辦法，而是相關的程序、呼應各界最重要的期待部分，我想我們都可以來做說明。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:06.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:07.076000+08:00","text":"最快是什麼時候嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:07.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:08.856000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜、一個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:09.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:10.437000+08:00","text":"如果註銷的話，應該是在這幾天。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:10.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:42.922000+08:00","text":"如果能拍板定案，應該就會對外界公告，也就是說這個辦法不會實施，不會實施就不會有現在所產生的這些問題，包括夜間、包括飼主要自行到藥局購買一次性、一支性，然後一個這樣的束縛，還有標籤的束縛，還有這些比如像氧氣筒及其供應的問題等等，實務上的問題大概都可以獲得解決。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:42.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:09.506000+08:00","text":"今天召委排這樣的專案報告，署長應該要有備而來啦，可是我覺得你沒有有備而來，反而讓我覺得你們前面已經捅了一個這麼大的窟窿，然後讓外界認為政府訂定這樣一個相關的管理辦法是用表決的方式讓它予以延期之後，又要再另訂一個新的辦法。","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:11.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:31.194000+08:00","text":"到現在講的是會更加周全，因為時空背景不一樣，所以原有的辦法你們主動地願意把它廢棄掉、把它註銷掉，但你還是一樣沒有辦法答復委員會新辦法的範疇內容到底跟衛福部的溝通會不會更加順暢？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:33.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:35.478000+08:00","text":"能迎刃而解的是在第幾條裡面的範圍？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:35.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:39.464000+08:00","text":"是不是已經跟衛福部還有相關的單位、相關的團體代表都溝通了？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:39.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:46.112000+08:00","text":"所以訂了這個辦法之後，預告應該可以很快地做這個程序上的動作。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:46.112000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:47.894000+08:00","text":"你還是一樣沒有答復我……","quality":0},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:47.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:00.642000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我剛剛應該答復的內容是肯定的，也就是說剛剛講兩部之間的溝通會議所要朝向的方向、解決的目標，其實這都已經快速凝聚共識了。好啦！","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"杜署長麗華","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:01.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:03.644000+08:00","text":"所以我們就可以往這個更周延的辦法去制定。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:03.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:06.286000+08:00","text":"好啦，我最後聽一句話就好，你的快速是多快速嘛？","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:07.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:07.607000+08:00","text":"一個禮拜？如果……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:07.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:07.627000+08:00","text":"兩個禮拜？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:07.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:07.827000+08:00","text":"三個禮拜？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員建國","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:16.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:17.783000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:18.283000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:23.140143+08:00","text":"謝謝劉建國委員質詢，謝謝石部長、杜署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:23.440143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:24.583000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:24.883000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:27.740143+08:00","text":"現在請王育敏委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}