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謝謝主席有請黃秘書長有請黃秘書長"},{"start":19.361,"end":30.859,"text":"今天本席想用一個法學上很嚴肅但是其實很生活化的問題來開場當一個機關人民不相信他的時候權力還剩下多少"},{"start":32.814,"end":57.274,"text":"監察院身為我們國家最高的監察機關依照憲政設計負責糾舉彈劾違法失職的公務員並保障人民的權益這些職權在制度裡面都寫得很漂亮但是我想請問一個最根本的問題請問黃秘書長是否認同監察權最重要的基礎不是權力本身而是人民的信任當然 我認同"},{"start":59.235,"end":80.984,"text":"因為其實這不是哲學問題這是一個憲法實踐的問題沒有信任再完整的制度也只是紙上談兵那接下來我想問第二個問題而且可能會稍微比較務實比較尖銳一點監察院我們認證是一個事實就是為什麼現在社會對監察院的信任正在快速的流失呢"},{"start":82.765,"end":102.862,"text":"這個部分我跟委員有不同的意見就是所謂的信證的流失我們從我們的監察院的陳情數字來看事實上去年大概也是八萬兩千多件的數字一整屆卻不是去年上一屆第五屆但目前為止本院人民的陳情的案件已經高達八萬六千多件預計"},{"start":104.164,"end":122.544,"text":"這一屆截止的時候會飆到十萬件也就是說人民對監察院還是有所期待的等一下我們會談到說監察院這方面有關建樹的問題但是老實說現在目前社會的觀感上面很直接該查的不查不該查最查的很勤"},{"start":123.505,"end":139.076,"text":"這句話雖然不中聽但是如果我們不去面對它就會一直存在講更白話一點這其實就是一個法律的問題檢察院有沒有選擇性行使監察權的疑慮舉一個具體的案例來請教好了"},{"start":139.716,"end":161.715,"text":"我記得如果沒有錯的話應該是前年的4月24號吧針對侯友宜市長35年前的舊案羅易事案重新被啟動調查甚至要求本人到監察院說明那我也想從最基本的法律結構上面來說起第一侯市長在當年的案件中是不是專案負責人啊"},{"start":162.489,"end":183.356,"text":"第二他是不是這個案件裡面的決策者呢如果兩者皆非那麼請問他在法律他在案中的法律地位是什麼是違法失職的行為人還是僅僅是關係人委員這個這畢竟是個案我是不是請我們施議委員會的主任秘書來跟我們說明目前這個案子過了剛好快兩年那這個其實也蠻明確的如果只是關係人"},{"start":191.078,"end":211.087,"text":"那監察院動用調查權要求到場說明秘書長還有各位監察院所有的同仁們我們都知道公務人員四大法則合法 合理 必要 比例原則那我就想請問這個案子請侯友宜市長到監察院說明請問他的必要性跟比例原則在哪裡"},{"start":213.464,"end":231.509,"text":"我是不是請市議委員會的主秘來回答委員的問題讓我繼續講完好了 因為這個案子我那時候看的時候覺得有點 身為立法委員覺得有點匪夷所思那跟你插嘴不好意思那更有就是 檢察委員曾經表示 這個調查不追究個人責任 只是為了還原事實"},{"start":233.095,"end":249.452,"text":"聽到這句話我本席身為一個國會議員其實我蠻困惑的因為我要請教的是監察院現在的法定職權到底是彈劾違法失職還是負責還原歷史那如果說後者我們要把監察院考慮成為歷史研究院"},{"start":253.837,"end":281.351,"text":"那更關鍵的是在事實認定上面憲政分工上面本來就是所謂司法院所屬的司法權核心那我必須在這邊請教秘書長跟我們監察院的長官監察院在這種進行這類不為彈劾只為還原的調查時是否已經在邊界上跟司法權產生衝疊我們這個先就個案跟您說明"},{"start":283.368,"end":290.001,"text":"報告委員,這個案子是羅易市向本院提出陳情,羅易市是加拿大的"},{"start":291.395,"end":311.015,"text":"台籍人士他針對當時入出國移民法的時候他遭到非法的逮捕的一個案子那其中呢他指稱侯友宜當時作為中山分局的刑事組組長是有問題所以呢在程序上我們那我想請問還是回到剛剛問題請問侯友宜是這個專案的負責人嗎請問侯友宜是當時的決策者嗎"},{"start":314.658,"end":336.548,"text":"當初針對羅毅士先生的逮捕是侯友宜一手去設法規辦的嗎如果不是那他是關係人吧那關係人就必須要監察院受到監察委員的調查那我實在有點害怕因為甚至說未來各位所有的人只要有人舉報只要監察委員覺得可以那請來監察院說明請問一下這是為了還人還為了彈劾"},{"start":340.27,"end":364.841,"text":"好 謝謝 我想這個案我們已經討論到這邊了那我想請那我是不是就那個委員提到說我們有沒有跟司法權這個邊界清不清楚根據大法官會議解釋監察權監察院本身就是一個准司法的機關所以難怪會委員會有那樣的疑問說那我跟司法權是不是有涉事實上我們在准司法的過程當然有"},{"start":365.461,"end":389.098,"text":"第一個我們會運用司法的程序所以在過程都要獨立啦等等這些都是司法的程序來進行第二個在司法權上面我們等於是司法權的先行的一個機關所以才會有 譬如說我們談了之後就會所以兩邊的確有一點overlap對吧這個是整個憲政 對 兩邊是有overlap對吧不能叫 我們其實那個邊界還蠻清晰只是我們有 我們叫做準司法的概念"},{"start":391.42,"end":410.676,"text":"這個325號大法官會解釋我想繼續提另外一個剛剛您提到一個很有趣的問題就是今年的這個人民陳情案件會超過十萬件那我想請問一下每年大概多少那我想請問一下不是今年我們這一屆這一屆十萬上一屆大概是八萬二上一屆整屆大概是八萬二那這一屆我們預估會應該"},{"start":413.319,"end":421.855,"text":"所以一年兩萬件嘛對不對那我想請問一下每一年受理的差不多兩萬一千件左右嘛那想請問其中真正啟動調查的比例是多少"},{"start":423.247,"end":446.826,"text":"我請副秘書長統計上面請她說明跟委員說明我們的任期是六年所以每年大概是一萬五到一萬八左右那每年調查多少屆除了那個調查案我們六屆到現在為止是1564案那可是因為這一屆我們有監察法第30條的委託調查"},{"start":448.891,"end":464.238,"text":"那這個委託調查其實也是一種調查的方式不管是委託調查還是直接你說的1564件也好比例差不多十分之一我在說明一下那個委託調查的件數大概我們現在目前統計到3月底是3809件"},{"start":466.559,"end":488.317,"text":"所以加起來應該是大概是百分之如果說真的那種派查案的比例我說一千五百多的大概百分之二這個百分之二的派查率跟所有的國際上的國際監察組織比起來是一個合理正常而且不低的組織既然不是每一案都查那請問你們的選案標準是什麼"},{"start":490.228,"end":502.298,"text":"我具體請教三點第一個有沒有明確的篩選標準第二個這個標準有沒有對外公開過第三個還是實務上由個別監察委員自行判斷"},{"start":504.728,"end":532.268,"text":"我說明一下就是監察院有一個監察院的立案派查原則他在立案派查原則第三點有條列是出實款有說哪些案子是應該比如說有重大的違法失職比如說是有機關的維持等等的就是跟扣合監察職權我們有一個立案派查原則他是一個法規你現在已經回了我就覺得很疑惑那如果回到2024年4月24號侯友宜的案子請問是屬於哪一項啊"},{"start":536.597,"end":553.491,"text":"我現在講的是說全國民眾對這件事情甚至有時候法學界對這件事情有些疑慮的地方那如果沒有清楚一致可預測的標準是不是說裁量權是否過度擴張而缺乏外部監督呢"},{"start":557.285,"end":584.217,"text":"那甚至從人民的角度看更簡單了為什麼有些案件剛剛講說一年差不多一萬八嘛一萬五到一萬八嘛那每年去受審的差不多多少十趴還是五趴每年的案件你們現在列案的案件加起來如果每年這樣的話每年一萬五千件一般八千件那等於說每年平均分擔的話那個受審率是多少受審率的"},{"start":584.793,"end":608.121,"text":"就是說你們現在正式承擔立案要去調查的案子我們畢竟是來講監察院的功能我們不是來講數學那從人民的角度看起來那更簡單啦為什麼有些案件曾經多年沒有下文那為什麼有些案件甚至幾十年前的舊案卻可以重新啟動而且動作還很快這樣的差異請問是基於客觀標準還是主觀選擇"},{"start":616.886,"end":630.179,"text":"報告委員我們都是基於陳情人所提的證據有沒有對於案件事實加以聲明來決定立法與否所以基本上採用證據法則如果人民陳情的空犯那我們沒辦法立案謝謝"},{"start":632.62,"end":653.091,"text":"所以老實說問題從來都不是監察院有沒有在做事而是是不是用同一把矢來做事人民其實要求的不高他們在意的是我的案子有沒有被查到他們在意的是同樣的事情是不是用同樣的標準來對待如果監察院沒有辦法讓人民相信兩件事"},{"start":654.131,"end":681.191,"text":"監察院的行使權是政治中立的調查標準是前後一致可受檢驗的那我們今天問題就不是只有個案爭議而是整個制度性正當性的動搖最後面我想回到一個最基本的這個建設性的問題做總結監察院是否已經提出還是即將提出具體的改革方案來回應當前的信任危機呢"},{"start":686.561,"end":706.099,"text":"跟委員說明其實監察院每一年在法規上面都有要求要做年度的檢討所以我們每一年的檢討會對於這年度的狀況做檢討也會對未來做一些提示有沒有考慮建立所謂公開透明的案件篩選機制呢"},{"start":708.141,"end":729.371,"text":"是 那剛剛因為我有說明我們有一個立案派查原則它就是一個準則那有些順序的客標指關呢是 那原則上我們每一件人民陳情案件都會依法處理就絕對不會把它吃是否監察院應該本身開始強化對監察委員裁量權的內部跟外部監督呢"},{"start":731.119,"end":751.01,"text":"跟委員說明這個委員立案其實還是有一定的行政程序那委員提出調查報告也有委員會的審查程序所以雖然監察委員是依據法律然後依據法律超越黨派獨立行使職權可是還是有一些審查的機制"},{"start":753.474,"end":776.408,"text":"監察院的價值是在於監督權力但是當人民已經開始監督監察院的時候代表的絕對不是民主跟進步代表是警訊已經響起我期待監察院能夠用制度來回應質疑而不是用個案來解釋個案讓監察權回到它應有的位置不是讓人懷疑的權力而是讓人安心的制度"},{"start":777.829,"end":800.567,"text":"我們的準司法的制度當然一定就是秉持的立法的原則啦其實我們很多的相關的管制也是從立法原則而來例如說我們必須要行政中立獨立於黨派這當然就是從這個原則我們來進行在進行的過程我們也時時刻刻我看到所有的監委都兢兢業業在做這件事所有的同仁也依據這些原則在進行之中"},{"start":801.107,"end":822.615,"text":"所以我這樣大院真的可以放心我們的監察院真的有努力把行政中立等這個原則做到最好這樣子跟秘書長分享一下目前不是本席覺得現在我們監察院是有疑問的而是普遍人民對監察院都沒有什麼信心以上 謝謝謝謝您的指教"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.049000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.269000+08:00","text":"有請黃秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.370000+08:00","text":"有請黃秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:22.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:31.865500+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:31.865500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:41.361000+08:00","text":"秘書長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:41.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:48.112000+08:00","text":"今天本席想用一個法學上很嚴肅但其實很生活化的問題來開場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:48.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:52.839000+08:00","text":"當一個機關……人民不相信它的時候，權力還剩下多少？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:54.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:18.873000+08:00","text":"監察院身為我國最高監察機關，依照憲政設計，負責糾舉、彈劾違法失職的公務員並保障人民的權益，這些職權在制度裡面都寫得很漂亮，但是我想請問一個最根本的問題，請問黃秘書長，你是否認同監察權最重要的基礎不是權力本身，而是人民的信任？","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:18.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:19.253000+08:00","text":"當然，我認同。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:21.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:25.597000+08:00","text":"其實這不是哲學問題，而是一個憲法實踐的問題。對。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:25.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:29.038000+08:00","text":"沒有信任，再完整的制度也只是紙上談兵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:35.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:42.964000+08:00","text":"監察院有沒有正視一個事實，就是為什麼現在社會對監察院的信任正在快速流失呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:44.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:12.551000+08:00","text":"這個部分我跟委員有不同的意見，就是所謂信任的流失，從我們監察院的陳情數字來看，事實上上一屆（第5屆）大概是八萬兩千多件，目前為止，本院人民陳情案件已經高達八萬六千多件，預計這一屆截止的時候會飆到10萬件，也就是說，人民對監察院還是有所期待的……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:12.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:17.837000+08:00","text":"等一下我會談到監察院陳情案的件數問題。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:18.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:24.524000+08:00","text":"老實說，目前社會對監察院的觀感很直接：該查的不查，不該查的卻查得很勤！","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:25.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:29.728000+08:00","text":"這句話雖然不中聽，但是如果我們不去面對，它就會一直存在。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:30.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.914000+08:00","text":"講得更白話一點，這其實就是一個法律的問題，監察院有沒有選擇性行使監察權的疑慮？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:38.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:51:55.668000+08:00","text":"舉一個具體的案例來請教好了，我如果沒有記錯的話，應該是前年4月24日，監察院針對侯友宜市長35年前的舊案「羅益世案」重新啟動調查，甚至要求本人到監察院說明。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:51:56.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:03.554000+08:00","text":"我想從最基本的法律結構說起，第一，侯市長在當年的案件中是不是專案負責人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:04.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:06.950000+08:00","text":"第二，他是不是這個案件裡面的決策者？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:08.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:14.672000+08:00","text":"如果兩者皆非，請問他在該案中的法律地位是什麼？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:14.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:18.033000+08:00","text":"是違法失職的行為人，或僅僅是關係人？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:19.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:23.555000+08:00","text":"委員，這畢竟是個案，我是不是可以請我們司獄委員會的主任秘書來跟委員說明？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:23.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:53.087000+08:00","text":"這個案子剛好過了快2年，這其實也滿明確的，如果只是關係人，監察院動用調查權要求到場說明，秘書長和各位監察院的同仁們，我們都知道公務人員四大法則：合法、合理、必要、比例原則，那我就想請問，針對這個案子請侯友宜市長到監察院說明，它的必要性和比例原則在哪裡？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:55.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:52:59.065000+08:00","text":"我是不是可以請司獄委員會的主秘來回答委員的問題？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:52:59.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:05.687000+08:00","text":"讓我繼續講完好了，因為這個案子我看了覺得有點匪夷所思。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:09.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:13.509000+08:00","text":"監察委員曾經表示，這個調查不追究個人責任，只是為了還原事實。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:16.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:19.500000+08:00","text":"本席身為國會議員，其實我對這句話滿困惑的！","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:20.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:27.648000+08:00","text":"我要請教的是，監察院現在的法定職權到底是彈劾違法失職，還是負責還原歷史？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:28.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:31.432000+08:00","text":"如果是後者，我們是不是要考慮把監察院改為歷史研究院？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:36.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:45.782000+08:00","text":"更關鍵的是，事實認定在憲政分工上面本來就是司法院所屬司法權的核心！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:46.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:53:59.970000+08:00","text":"所以我必須在這邊請教秘書長和監察院的長官，監察院進行這類不為彈劾、只為還原的調查時，是否已經在邊界上和司法權產生重疊？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:53:59.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:03.331000+08:00","text":"我請主任秘書先就個案跟您說明。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳主任秘書先成","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:05.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:30.032000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個案子是羅益世向本院提出陳情，羅益世是加拿大的臺籍人士，這是針對當時的入出國及移民法，他遭到非法逮捕的案子，其中他指稱侯友宜當時做為中山分局刑事組組長的時候有問題，所以在程序上我們……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:30.032000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:31.032000+08:00","text":"請暫停！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:30.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:32.334000+08:00","text":"那我還是回到剛剛的問題，請問侯友宜是這個專案的負責人嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:32.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:33.015000+08:00","text":"請問侯友宜是當時的決策者嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:36.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:40.920000+08:00","text":"當初針對羅益世先生的逮捕是侯友宜一手策劃督辦的嗎？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:40.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:43.001000+08:00","text":"如果不是，那他是關係人吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:43.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:47.663000+08:00","text":"關係人就必須到監察院接受監察委員的調查，那我實在有點害怕。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:49.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:57.467000+08:00","text":"這樣未來所有的人，只要有人舉報、只要監察委員覺得可以，就會被請去監察院說明。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:54:58.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:54:58.528000+08:00","text":"請問一下，這是為了還原，還是為了彈劾？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:03.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:04.931000+08:00","text":"這個個案我們已經討論到這邊了，我想請……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:06.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:12.635000+08:00","text":"是不是就委員提到的，我們有沒有侵犯……是不是跟司法權邊界不清楚的問題加以說明？","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:13.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:24.300000+08:00","text":"根據大法官會議解釋，監察院本身就是一個準司法機關，難怪委員會有這樣的疑問，認為我們是不是有涉司法權？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:24.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:34.146000+08:00","text":"事實上，我們在準司法的過程中，第一，我們會運用司法程序，所以在過程中都要獨立等等，這些都是依據司法的程序來進行。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:34.626000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:39.790000+08:00","text":"第二，在司法權上，我們等於是司法權先行的一個機關，所以才會有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:39.790000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:40.790000+08:00","text":"所以兩邊……","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:40.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:40.991000+08:00","text":"譬如我們彈劾之後……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:41.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:43.333000+08:00","text":"所以兩邊的確有一點overline，對吧？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:43.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:44.453000+08:00","text":"這是整個憲政……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:44.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:45.434000+08:00","text":"兩個是有overline，對吧？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:46.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:54.681000+08:00","text":"其實那個邊界還蠻清晰的，只是我們叫做準司法概念，大法官325號解釋……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:54.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:55:55.982000+08:00","text":"時間有限，我想繼續提另外一個問題。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:55:55.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:03.949000+08:00","text":"剛剛你提到一個很有趣的問題，就是今年的人民陳情案件會超過10萬件，那我想請問一下，每年大概多少？今年……","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:04.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:06.071000+08:00","text":"不是今年，是我們這一屆。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:06.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:08.393000+08:00","text":"這一屆10萬……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:09.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:12.676000+08:00","text":"上一屆整屆大概是8萬2，這一屆我們預估應該將近到10萬。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:15.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:16.782000+08:00","text":"所以一年2萬件，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:18.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:23.835000+08:00","text":"每年受理的案件差不多2萬1,000件左右，請問，其中真正啟動調查的比率是多少？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:25.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:29.331000+08:00","text":"統計部分，我請副秘書長說明。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:30.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:36.416000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我們的任期是六年，所以每年大概是1萬5,000到1萬8,000左右。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:36.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:37.677000+08:00","text":"好，那每年調查多少件？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:40.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:54.293000+08:00","text":"調查案部分，第六屆到現在為止是1,564案，可是因為這一屆有監察法第三十條的委託調查，這個委託調查其實也是一種調查方式……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:56:54.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:56:59.795000+08:00","text":"請暫停一下，不管是委託調查還是直接調查，你說的1,564件，比率差不多十分之一嘛！","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:00.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:57:26.193000+08:00","text":"是，我再說明一下委託調查的件數，目前統計到3月底，大概是3,809件，所以加起來大概是百分之……真的有派查案的比率，我說的是一千五百多件的，大概是2%，這個2%的派查率跟所有國際上的監察組織比起來，是一個合理、正常且不低的數字。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:26.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:57:30.317000+08:00","text":"既然不是每案都查，請問你們的選案標準是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:30.317000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:57:32.228000+08:00","text":"基本上，我們有一個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:32.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:57:36.171000+08:00","text":"我具體請教三點，第一個，有沒有明確的篩選標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:37.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:57:40.474000+08:00","text":"第二個，這個標準有沒有對外公開過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:40.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:57:44.298000+08:00","text":"第三個，還是實務上由個別監察委員自行判斷？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:57:48.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:58:07.943000+08:00","text":"監察院有一個監察院立案派查原則，在立案派查原則第三點有條列出十款應該派查的案子，比如有重大違法失職，比如有機關違失等等，就是扣合監察職權，我們有一個立案派查原則，它是一個法規。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:58:07.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:58:14.248000+08:00","text":"你現在已經回答了，但我就覺得很疑惑，回到2024年4月24號侯友宜的案子，請問屬於哪一項？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:58:14.248000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:58:18.597000+08:00","text":"這個……這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:58:18.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:58:35.471000+08:00","text":"對不起，我現在講的是全國民眾，甚至於有時候法學界對這件事情有疑慮的地方，如果沒有清楚一致、可預測的標準，是不是裁量權會過度擴張，而缺乏外部監督呢？","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:58:39.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:58:51.350000+08:00","text":"甚至從人民的角度看更簡單了，剛剛說一年差不多有1萬5,000到1萬8,000件，那每年受審的差不多是多少件？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:58:52.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:58:52.771000+08:00","text":"是10%，還是5%？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:58:55.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:03.656000+08:00","text":"現在立案的案件加起來，如果每年是1萬5,000件、1萬8,000件，平均分擔的話，受審率是多少？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:05.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:06.197000+08:00","text":"受審率的意思……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:06.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:09.454000+08:00","text":"就是你們正式成案、立案，要去調查的案子。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:12.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:22.558000+08:00","text":"好，畢竟我們是來討論監察院的功能，而不是來講數學的，從人民的角度看起來更簡單，為什麼有些案件陳情多年沒有下文？","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:23.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:28.280000+08:00","text":"有些案件，甚至是幾十年前的舊案，卻可以重新啟動，而且動作還很快？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:29.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:30.121000+08:00","text":"這樣的差異，請問是基於客觀標準，還是主觀選擇？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任秘書先成","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:38.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:59:52.179000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們都是基於陳情人所提的證據對於案件事實有沒有加以聲明來決定立案與否，基本上就是採用證據法則，如果人民陳情的空泛，那我們就沒辦法立案，謝謝。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T09:59:55.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:00:11.389000+08:00","text":"老實說，問題從來都不是監察院有沒有在做事，而是是不是用同一把尺來做事，人民其實要求的不高，他們在意的是，自己的案子有沒有被查到；他們在意的是，同樣的事情，是不是用同樣的標準來對待？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:00:12.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:00:27.980000+08:00","text":"如果監察院沒有辦法讓人民相信兩件事，即監察院的行使權是政治中立，以及調查標準前後一致，是可受檢驗的，那麼今天的問題就不是只是個案爭議，而是整個制度性、正當性的動搖。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:00:36.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:00:43.171000+08:00","text":"監察院是否已經提出，還是即將提出具體的改革方案，來回應當前的信任危機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T10:00:49.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:02.514000+08:00","text":"其實監察院每一年在法規上都有要求做年度檢討，所以我們每一年的檢討都會對於這年度的狀況加以檢討，同時也會對未來做一些提示，剛剛……","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:03.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:07.819000+08:00","text":"有沒有考慮建立所謂公開、透明的案件篩選機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:10.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:14.783000+08:00","text":"是、是，剛剛我有說明我們有個立案派查原則，它就是一個準則……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:14.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:16.644000+08:00","text":"那麼優先順序的客觀指標呢？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:18.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:25.748000+08:00","text":"原則上，每一件人民陳情案件我們都會依法處理，絕對不會吃案，絕對沒有這樣子。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:26.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:31.351000+08:00","text":"是否監察院本身應該開始強化對監察委員裁量權的內部跟外部監督呢？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王副秘書長增華","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:33.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:01:52.990000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，委員立案其實還是有一定的行政程序，委員提出的調查報告，也有委員會的審查程序，雖然監察委員依據法律超越黨派、獨立行使職權，可是還是有一些審查的機制。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:01:55.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:02:18.388000+08:00","text":"老實講，監察院的價值在於監督權力，但是當人民已經開始監督監察院的時候，代表的絕對不是民主跟進步，代表的是警訊已經響起，期待監察院能夠用制度來回應質疑，而不是用個案來解釋個案，讓監察權回到它應有的位置，不是讓人懷疑的權力，而是讓人安心的制度。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T10:02:19.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:02:51.818000+08:00","text":"我們的準司法制度，當然一定就是秉持立法的原則，其實我們很多相關的管制也是從立法原則而來，例如我們必須行政中立、獨立於黨派，當然我們就是從這個原則來進行，而在進行的過程中，我們時時刻刻也看到所有監委都是兢兢業業在做事，所有同仁也都依據這些原則在進行中，所以大院真的可以放心，我們監察院真的有努力把行政中立等原則做到最好。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"林委員沛祥","start":"2026-04-15T10:02:52.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:03:04.214000+08:00","text":"跟秘書長分享一下，目前不是本席覺得現在的監察院是有疑問的，而是人民普遍對監察院沒有什麼信心，以上，謝謝。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T10:03:04.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:03:04.595000+08:00","text":"謝謝你的指教，謝謝。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T10:03:05.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:03:06.523571+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T10:03:06.823571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:03:09.680714+08:00","text":"接下來請范雲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}