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去討論這件事情這個已經是非常嚴重的事情我們看到說大量的軍事資產都往中東送大量的這個軍事的人員也都往中東送這會造成印太地方的中空那這個如果印太地方的真空出現之後那對台灣的安全威脅是無與倫比的我們必須要很嚴正的跟我們的盟友講那也必須要做最"},{"start":237.405,"end":254.856,"text":"最不好的準備 最好的準備就是當然是要跟日本跟菲律賓我們至少在這個中等國家之間的聯盟上面不管是在去衝突化 在這種雷達雷琴上面的去衝突化的識別化這些都是需要外交部主動來去詢問國防部 主動來去詢問經濟部讓他們能夠來去做整體的這個規劃"},{"start":258.038,"end":285.79,"text":"不是說我成立一個工作小組你成立一個工作小組又怎樣你們解決了什麼事情我們的報告不是要說我成立了哪個小組我要看到是你做了什麼事情你協調了什麼事情你跟哪裡進了哪些能源可以確保說我活在未來的一個月兩個月三個月到七個月都可以不用擔心這才是我們報告要的我不需要很多文字上面的贅述不需要那包含我也這樣在這邊跟所有的這些外交部經濟部跟所有的同仁們講以後 特別是國防部現在他沒有來 沒關係"},{"start":287.051,"end":305.589,"text":"我們的報告內容其實罪質不要多 不是機密的就不要說是機密這樣子以後我們再去做事情的時候會更有用再來我們要提到一下中國國民黨 曾立文他們主席去訪問中國的時候他們有講了一些反殖民跟反日的論述我們有準備好要怎麼樣去針對這個論述來去反制嗎"},{"start":311.638,"end":327.77,"text":"首先我們感謝委員的關心,我們當然對於國內的政治外交部是沒有立場,但是我們也希望國內的主要政治領袖必須要準確的傳達台灣的主流民意,就是中華民國台灣與中華人民共和國互不隸屬的事實。"},{"start":329.491,"end":354.633,"text":"那從歷史上面也是這樣,中華人民共和國從來沒有統治台灣那這個東西我想是一個共識那如果政治領袖傳達一個錯誤的訊息往往會產生一個很重大的後果尤其是對於像中華人民共和國這個對台灣有敵意的一個國家常常會用這個問題來操作那我們也覺得這個事情上面我們都必須要特別的小心謝謝次長"},{"start":355.313,"end":376.32,"text":"市長他們不斷的強調用反殖民的這樣的說法說說台灣也是在反殖民中國也是在反殖民我要跟大家報告這個當初在這個川普在6月6日在跟德國的總理他們在會晤的時候他說D-Day對你們德國來說可能不是一個愉快的日子"},{"start":377.062,"end":398.035,"text":"但是那總理怎麼回應他說這是我國從納粹獨裁統治下獲得解放的日子同樣也是當初為什麼會有中日戰爭就是因為他們軍國主義的擴張當初為什麼會有歐戰跟二戰就是因為納粹主義的擴張那是什麼樣的作戰解放了他們是美國以及當初的中華民國"},{"start":399.736,"end":423.104,"text":"我們從被壓迫的軍國主義以及歐洲被納粹主義從解放出來的那時候我們的盟國是誰中華民國台灣的盟國中華民國的盟友又是誰很明顯的是美國嘛對不對所以我們這個歷史觀要很清楚的知道說是什麼樣的解放出來那日本跟德國在戰後之後變成什麼樣的國家民主的國家甚至是經濟的重心是歐盟的經濟的重心因為他們從軍國主義從納粹主義轉換"},{"start":426.445,"end":444.06,"text":"他們從新的來去做民主的轉型經濟的轉型那中國部分也是一樣中國在歷經他們的改革開放之後他們做了經濟的轉型經濟的轉型讓很多人脫貧對此我們是歡迎的我必須要很清楚的讓所有的民眾知道我們並沒有仇視中國人"},{"start":444.64,"end":467.91,"text":"但我們不希望的是用極權的方式來去改變我們的生活方式這是我們的外交論述不是每次就只是單純的從樣的照本宣科沒有這樣子的你要跟民眾講清楚我們的外交是在做什麼我們要爭取的是什麼那現在中國做了經濟轉型之後他們沒有做政治轉型這就是跟我們完全不同的地方我們沒有要追求中國的"},{"start":469.008,"end":495.691,"text":"政權更替沒有 這不是我國的利益我國利益就是台灣就是台灣以及我們的台澎金馬這是我國的利益我們沒有要求中國要走向政治改革這不是我的工作我的工作就是在台灣確保台灣2300萬人有我們自己的生活方式要保護我們的生活方式要維持我們的生活方式所以對我們來說反殖民也好反帝國主義也好反軍國主義也好都是在維持我們的生活方式同樣的我們也反極權"},{"start":496.832,"end":511.755,"text":"我們也反對 中共直接來武力犯台這也是維護我們的生活方式請大家仔細思考一下以後外交部不要每次都說這個我們這個理念相同啦價值觀相同我們要跟多少個跟價值觀不同的國家來互動我們基本上國家不用跟"},{"start":512.516,"end":540.744,"text":"這些東南亞的國家來互動嗎他們的理念價值跟我們一樣嗎他們也追求民主自由嗎有些有有些並不是我們沒有我們是一個中等國家中等國家不是超級強國我們不用干預每一個國家的內政但是我們必須要維持我們的內政我們維持內政就是民主自由這是我們的生活模式不會強加在其他人身上也不希望任何人強加在我們身上未來我希望說外交部也好入委會也好針對這種不同的說法我們"},{"start":541.624,"end":568.189,"text":"必須要有一個特別是有些時候是disinformation給這種錯假亂訊息想要扭曲我國的主權想要扭曲我國的事實上的存在的時候必須思考一下你要用什麼樣的方式來去有效的詮釋我們國家生存的價值跟我們國家跟其他國家互動的利益如果沒有的話那現在要馬上思考一下我們的外交戰略是什麼好 謝謝是感謝委員的質詢喔這個還有佩服委員的這個歷史觀以及世界觀謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:13+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:14+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:14+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:15+08:00","text":"請陳次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:15+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:16+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:13.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:13.509000+08:00","text":"次長早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:22.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:26.282000+08:00","text":"次長，我們先從中東的局勢開始來講。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:26.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:46.603000+08:00","text":"講到戰略，我不知道你們有沒有很嚴正地把我們的擔憂跟美方講，就是長期的戰事會傷害到的不只是臺灣而已，還有美方的盟友，包含菲律賓緊急狀態、日本、韓國，這些擔憂有沒有確實地跟美方表達過？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:46.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:54.349000+08:00","text":"有，我們透過駐外使館以及跟AIT在臺灣的互動都有表達我們的了解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:55.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:04:56.991000+08:00","text":"他們怎麼回應？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:04:56.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:11.074000+08:00","text":"他們的回應是，從戰事的發展，他們也都了解我們的擔憂，當然他不可能事前告訴我下一步的動作，可是對於像和談的時候，就是在巴基斯坦談判的內容，我們透過管道去了解相關的發展，也評估之後對我們的可能影響在什麼地方，我們可能要的作為，有請美方能夠協助，尤其在能源方面，剛才經濟部也有很多的報告，像能源上面的確很辛苦，調度上面不容易，我們也跟美方特別強調，在這個上面就是臺灣跟美國以及其他理念相近國家能源韌性合作的開始，我們把它看成是一個新的機會，我們也跟美國、國內說明多元化的採購來源非常重要，所以我們希望在這個上面能夠跟友邦傳達清楚的訊息，就是我們有意願，而且現在也有必要在能源韌性的議題上面能夠做更多的合作。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:11.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:25.099000+08:00","text":"好，我必須要強調，其實盟友之間的交流，特別是發動重要衝突之前告知我們，甚至讓我們有所防範、可以做一些準備，是非常重要的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:25.099000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:26.099000+08:00","text":"委員說的是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:25.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:36.826000+08:00","text":"所以我認為這是本來就應該要做的，包含我們不知道衝突的時間點有多長或多短，我們必須要知道時間的長度，才有辦法調度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:37.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:40.990000+08:00","text":"另外一方面，我看到之前的委員都有提到，包含澳洲大概是百分之三十幾……對。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:41.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:42.111000+08:00","text":"卡達也是差不多百分之三十幾……","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:44.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:06:44.674000+08:00","text":"百分之二十左右。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:06:44.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:07:14.297000+08:00","text":"百分之二十、三十左右，美國大概是百分之九點多、快要10%，未來這個調整怎麼調，怎麼樣能夠加強我們對他們的投資，以確保去風險……重點是要去風險化，現在已經不是在比哪一個東西便宜，而是哪一個東西的風險是比較相對低的，因為我們現在是要求有，而不是只要便宜而已，特別對所有石油衍生的產品以及我們重要的高科技產業來講，這一切都是很必要性的。沒錯。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:07:14.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:07:41.780000+08:00","text":"所以我認為我們也有必要跟美方特別強調，現在已經不只是能源、不只是這可能會傷害到盟友而已，而是美方的戰略投射必須要重返印太，這個已經講了10年、20年了，如果我們外交部沒有辦法與日本、菲律賓把這個訊息同步跟美方再次強調這件事情的話，我覺得會傷害我們自己國家的利益，也會傷害到美國的利益。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:07:42.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:07:47.742000+08:00","text":"我們不是站在我國的利益而已，而是站在我們盟邦的利益一起討論這件事情，這個已經是非常嚴重的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:07:47.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:07:56.766000+08:00","text":"我們看到大量的軍事資產都往中東送，大量的軍事人員也都往中東送，這會造成印太地方的真空。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:07:58.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:08:11.566000+08:00","text":"如果印太地方的真空出現之後，對臺灣的安全威脅是無與倫比的，我們必須要很嚴正地跟我們的盟友講，也必須要做最不好的準備。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:08:11.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:08:33.819000+08:00","text":"最好的準備當然是跟日本、菲律賓等等至少在中等國家之間的聯盟上面，不管是去衝突化，或是雷達或雷情上面的去衝突化、去識別化，這些都需要外交部主動詢問國防部、主動詢問經濟部，讓他們能夠做整體的規劃，而不是光成立一個工作小組，成立一個工作小組又怎樣？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:08:33.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:08:35+08:00","text":"你們解決了什麼事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:08:35.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:08:50.367000+08:00","text":"你們的報告不能只說明你們成立哪個小組，我要看到你們做了什麼事情、協調了什麼事情、跟哪裡進了哪些能源，可以確保我國在未來的一個月、兩個月、三個月到七個月都可以不用擔心，這才是我們要的報告，我不需要很多文字上面的贅述、不需要！","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:08:51.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:09:06.878000+08:00","text":"我也在這邊跟外交部、經濟部所有同仁們講，特別是國防部（今天沒有來，沒關係），你們的報告內容其實贅字不要多，不是機密的就不要說是機密，這樣子以後我們再去做事情的時候會更有用。是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:09:07.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:09:18.589000+08:00","text":"再來，我們再提一下中國國民黨鄭麗文主席去訪問中國的時候，他們有講了一些反殖民跟反日的論述，你們有準備好要怎麼樣針對這個論述加以反制嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:09:18.589000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:09:24.638000+08:00","text":"委員，我現在回答嗎？嗯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:09:24.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:07.232000+08:00","text":"首先，我們感謝委員的關心，對於國內的政治，外交部沒有立場，但是我們也期望國內的主要政治領袖必須要準確地傳達臺灣的主流民意，就是中華民國臺灣與中華人民共和國互不隸屬的事實，從歷史上面也是這樣，就是中華人民共和國從來沒有統治臺灣，這個東西我想是一個共識，如果政治領袖傳達錯誤的訊息，往往會產生很重大的後果，尤其是對於像中華人民共和國這個對臺灣有敵意的國家，常常會用這個問題來操作，我們也覺得這個事情上面我們都必須要特別地小心。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:07.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:07.633000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:08.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:14.915000+08:00","text":"次長，他們不斷地強調，用反殖民的說法來說臺灣在反殖民、中國也在反殖民。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:15.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:32.383000+08:00","text":"我要跟大家報告，當初川普在6月6日跟德國總理會晤的時候，他說D-Day對德國來說可能不是一個愉快的日子；結果德國總理怎麼回應？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:32.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:35.425000+08:00","text":"他說：這是我國從納粹獨裁統治下獲得解放的日子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:35.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:39.068000+08:00","text":"同樣地，當初為什麼會有中日戰爭？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:39.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:43.610000+08:00","text":"就是因為他們軍國主義的擴張；當初為什麼會有歐戰跟俄戰？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:43.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:45.271000+08:00","text":"就是因為納粹主義的擴張。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:45.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:10:48.093000+08:00","text":"是什麼樣的作戰解放了他們？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:10:48.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:00.459000+08:00","text":"是美國及當初的中華民國把他們從軍國主義的壓迫解放出來，又讓歐洲從納粹主義解放出來，那時候我們中華民國臺灣的盟國是誰？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:00.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:02.119000+08:00","text":"中華民國的盟友又是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:02.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:04.320000+08:00","text":"很明顯的是美國，對不對？是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:04.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:08.841000+08:00","text":"所以我們的歷史觀要很清楚地知道是從什麼解放出來。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:09.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:11.122000+08:00","text":"日本跟德國在戰後變成什麼樣的國家？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:11.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:23.569000+08:00","text":"民主的國家，甚至是歐盟經濟的重心，因為他們從軍國主義、從納粹主義轉換，重新做民主的轉型、經濟的轉型。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:24.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:32.376000+08:00","text":"中國的部分也是一樣，中國在歷經改革開放之後做了經濟的轉型，經濟的轉型讓很多人脫貧，對此我們是歡迎的。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:32.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:48.124000+08:00","text":"我必須要很清楚地讓所有民眾知道，我們並沒有仇視中國人，但我們不希望用極權的方式改變我們的生活方式，這是我們的外交論述，不是每次就只是單純、同樣地照本宣科，沒有這樣子的！","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:48.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:53.167000+08:00","text":"你們要跟民眾講清楚我們的外交是在做什麼、我們要爭取的是什麼。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:53.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:11:58.309000+08:00","text":"現在中國做了經濟轉型之後沒有做政治轉型，這就是跟我們完全不同的地方。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:11:58.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:20.244000+08:00","text":"我們沒有要追求中國的政權更替，沒有，這不是我國的利益，我國的利益就只有臺灣，就是我們的臺、澎、金、馬，這是我國的利益，我們沒有要求中國要走向政治改革，這不是我們的工作，我們的工作就是在臺灣，確保臺灣2,300萬人有我們自己的生活方式，要保護我們的生活方式，要維持我們的生活方式。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:20.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:33.498000+08:00","text":"所以對我們來說，反殖民也好、反帝國主義也好、反軍國主義也好，都是在維持我們的生活方式，同樣的，我們也反極權，我們也反對中共直接以武力犯臺，這也是維護我們的生活方式。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:34.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:43.734000+08:00","text":"請大家仔細思考一下，以後外交部不要每次都說我們理念相同、價值觀相同，我們要跟多少個價值觀不同的國家來互動？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:44.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:47.597000+08:00","text":"這些經貿國家不用跟東南亞的國家互動嗎？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:47.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:49.317000+08:00","text":"他們的理念價值跟我們一樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:49.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:50.858000+08:00","text":"他們也追求民主自由嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:50.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:12:52.238000+08:00","text":"有些有，有些並不是。是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:12:53.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:13:07.222000+08:00","text":"我們是一個中等國家，中等國家不是超級強國，我們不用干預每一個國家的內政，但是我們必須要維持我們的內政，我們維持的內政就是民主自由，這是我們的生活模式，不會強加在其他人身上，也不希望任何人強加在我們身上。是。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:13:07.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:13:36.688000+08:00","text":"未來我希望外交部也好，陸委會也好，針對這種不同的說法，我們必須要有一個……特別有些時候是disinformation，以這種錯假亂訊息想要扭曲我國的主權，想要扭曲我國事實上存在的時候，必須思考一下，要用什麼樣的方式有效的詮釋我們國家生存的價值，以及我們國家跟其他國家互動的利益，如果沒有的話，現在要馬上思考一下我們的外交戰略是什麼。謝謝。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:13:36.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:13:41.189000+08:00","text":"感謝委員的質詢，也佩服委員的歷史觀以及世界觀。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2026-04-15T10:13:41.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:13:41.189000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T10:13:41.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:13:45.403286+08:00","text":"接下來請王定宇委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}