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像委員報告目前我們就是依照行政院的要求跟指示我們對於整體的國內的公共運輸的票價我們會做不調整的這個作為可以到什麼時候不調整到什麼時候像委員報告我們目前所規劃出來的除了到年底是一個版本之外另外針對明年的一整年就是116年的部分我們有提出我們的預算的需求如果要做兩年比如說到116年底"},{"start":90.881,"end":114.102,"text":"整體的這個補貼的措施的話要讓國內的公共運輸平穩的話其實我們有提出一個預算上面的需求那就看到時候行政院對於預算的安排怎麼去安排好所以我們先講因為現在四月嘛到今年年底不管油價怎麼樣飆升不管中東站是怎麼樣的演變我們都不會調漲我們的陸海公運輸的票價目前我們國內的公共運輸我們的政策上是不調漲的"},{"start":115.242,"end":143.613,"text":"確定因為部長其實國際原油的價格現在你的報告裡面以及我們各部會報告裡面都來到一桶132美金而這一次的中東戰士更創下了144美金也就是有國際原油價格交易以來歷史新高另外一方面現在看到的這個燃油的一個價格航空燃油的價格它是翻倍成長翻倍"},{"start":145.154,"end":173.813,"text":"所以說本席才會問的是說那到目前為止我們的因應規劃即便中東戰事持續的這個延燒我們都有信心能夠在今年年底以前國內的運輸不管是高鐵台鐵以及公路客運都不調漲像委員報告行政院的政策是這個方向沒有錯所以交通部會照這個方向來執行好那我們就是要看你那另外我們也要說那這樣子如果預估要多少成本"},{"start":174.993,"end":192.902,"text":"我們過去這一年過去這一個多月的時間已經花出了多少我們的預算我們到明年底如果估算到明年底的預算是差不多85億我先問的是這一個月這一個月就是2月28號到現在我們相關的補貼或是相關的吸收"},{"start":193.988,"end":221.067,"text":"目前我們有實際落實到補貼需要補貼的部分只有空運的部分空運的油價的部分因為我們請中油公司協助我們從44塊的油價調降到28塊所以目前都還是中油公司吸收大部分所以說中油公司才會想是說他過去這一個月已經破百億的一個成本吸收那未來我們交通部這邊會有跟中油公司還是全部都讓中油公司這邊來接收"},{"start":222.328,"end":237.663,"text":"在航空燃油的部分我們目前是拜託中油公司先幫我們調降那個價格但實際上我們到最後會編列預算來還給這個中油公司也就是說由交通部這邊來做補貼因為即便是國內線的航空燃油到目前為止也都是歷史新高"},{"start":239.205,"end":252.904,"text":"過去我看了中油的這個數據裡面國內線的航空的燃油到44塊以往沒有超過40塊的所以現在是歷史新高嘛所以未來交通部也會編列預算再給中油公司這個沒有問題 這個我們會做"},{"start":254.426,"end":274.365,"text":"那另外我們看到是韓國政府有祭出節能政策也就是說要現行公共機關的車輛並且頒布12項的節能行動之意那卓榮泰院長之前被問到的時候也有講是說政府應該帶頭開源節流就是要對外的車輛出入都要盡量精簡"},{"start":275.126,"end":295.641,"text":"我想請教那身為我們中央主管機關交通部我們對於公務部門體系說出入車輛盡量精簡我們具體措施跟要求跟辦法是什麼像委員報告目前沒有訂定這樣子的辦法但大家都有這樣的默契但是卓榮和院長就講是說要盡量精簡但是沒有任何的措施辦法"},{"start":296.277,"end":305.44,"text":"我們目前有盡量在精簡好來那我請教一下今天那麼多的部會但是大部分都是交通部的同仁嘛剛有沒有共成來的首長"},{"start":307.438,"end":332.352,"text":"首長有沒有共成來部長有沒有邀請哪一個司長跟你一起坐車司長他們都是共成來的現在都有要求要共成因為我出發的地點跟他們不一樣所以沒有辦法共成不是從交通部過來我剛剛不是從交通部過來所以本席要講的就是說現在就是卓榮泰院長講了一個說你要盡量精簡但實際上沒有相關的辦法跟作為"},{"start":333.453,"end":357.731,"text":"你身為中央主管機構我們看到韓國確實因為中東油價不是我們能夠控制但我們要的是說要大家可以盡量訂出辦法那我們已經看到韓國了他講是說頒布12項的節能行動指引縮短淋浴時間白天充電供部門車輛上路分流管制那我想請教交通部是不是應該也要對於這種全民運動的部分帶頭做起"},{"start":358.792,"end":383.264,"text":"以身作則是不是要訂立相關的政策研擬如果說中東再次持續延燒的話我們要怎麼做如果委員您所說的是交通部必須要自己先做的話這個部分我們正在執行當中那有沒有辦法由我們這邊來制定一個辦法要求整個政府機關或者是民眾大家來配合這個我也覺得委員的建議蠻好所以我們來研議這個方面看怎麼樣去呼籲大家盡量節能那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起來做"},{"start":385.925,"end":411.037,"text":"公務車輛盡量精簡啦但是不要只有口號沒有具體的作為本期過去到現在都一直強調的是我們要務實不是務虛不是說只是喊口號所以說這一點是本期要提出來那你如果說要研議相關辦法給行政院來做參考甚至說廣泛的話什麼時候可以研議出來給我們一個月的時間我們來跟行政院這邊來一個月好本期看您一個月的時間最後部長"},{"start":412.097,"end":428.883,"text":"還是強調這個所謂的中國大陸對台的十個政策本席剛剛有看到您有在外面受訪有講到說感染者有可能會變成棒子所以你現在認為說這個中國大陸對台的十個政策他算是現階段算感染者還算棒子"},{"start":429.904,"end":456.781,"text":"是橄欖枝是棒子其實我看不太出來因為對於我們來說你不認為它是橄欖枝這樣說好了台灣目前到中國大陸要去做自由行的我們完全沒有限制我們的國民任何人要去都可以是嗎不管怎麼樣今天是中國大陸這邊提出來那本席沒有要我現在在強調的是說我是想確認交通部的態度因為我們看到很多的觀光旅遊住宿飯店餐飲運輸業者"},{"start":458.362,"end":485.494,"text":"也都很期待兩岸有春農花開的時候當然你一定會講的是說我們有多元市場我們有開放觀光但是很現實的層面過去我們觀光客能破千萬是有三四百萬名的入客那我現在想要請教的就是說有業者也認為是說近年我方各種推脫閃躲技術刁難簡而言之啊雙方是沒有互信想談也沒有辦法起頭這是業者"},{"start":486.704,"end":514.704,"text":"媒體報導直接就報導觀光旅遊飯店業者的這個說法那我只是想請教現在對方丟了一個球第一我們官方的態度認為這是感染之嗎我們我剛剛回到我剛剛所說的話題對於自由行台灣是沒有任何限制那我們目前看到中國開放了上海跟福建可以來台灣自由行那如果這叫善意的話那請問一下上海跟福建以外的他的限制算惡意嗎"},{"start":516.298,"end":528.328,"text":"會不會是另外一種而已 假設上海跟福建佔他們總體國民的十分之一那他目前還佔 禁了 禁止了 十分之九那到底是誰比較有善意 我看應該是我們比較有善意吧"},{"start":529.698,"end":546.633,"text":"對 部長你完全搞錯這個問題的重點我現在只想問的是說你認不認為說他現在的做法是感染之如果是的話可以進一步談我現在想要確認這是官方的立場跟態度就是說如果說因為這樣子的一個動作兩邊可以有譬如說丟球接球"},{"start":547.894,"end":555.718,"text":"對於觀光旅遊飯店住宿業者他們也有所期待但如果說今天官方的態度就是我們不願意接求或是我們認為說這不是橄欖枝的話那當然我們也可以直接讓我們的業者知道是說我們不認為嘛所以現在重點在於是說你覺得是不是橄欖枝要不要後續有溝通的程序啟動"},{"start":568.945,"end":580.37,"text":"因為過去他們時常把橄欖枝當棍子在用所以我現在無法判斷但您說的啟動其實我們早就啟動我講過好多次我們回到小兩會的談判現在資深的旅遊業者就講說小兩會是談團體的旅"},{"start":584.652,"end":610.662,"text":"但是大陸是開放自由行的旅客為什麼要透過小兩會是要談什麼根本就是開放就可以做到的事所以附入的集團力的理由根本就是什麼理由都有這個就是媒體報導如果說你認為媒體報導是錯誤的請你更正但我們現在看到的地方就是說對於七成或說第一線的旅遊人士來講他們當然希望"},{"start":611.602,"end":625.532,"text":"在我們捍衛中華民國主權立場的情況下能夠更開大門走大路過去2008年到2016年嘛政府時代可以做的事情為什麼民進黨政府沒有辦法做那還有就是我們為什麼沒有辦法能夠有更春暖花開的時候所以這一點才是官方的立場跟態度現在是讓我們覺得模糊不清讓夜神知道說有沒有機會有春暖花開的時候一定可以春暖花開"},{"start":640.624,"end":664.648,"text":"不要口惠食不至啦我真的只能講是說不要口惠食不至就如同剛剛講的不管是公務車的這個精簡政策到目前為止沒有落實任何辦法那現在不要口惠而食不至我今天代表是希望我們所有飯店旅遊住宿觀光餐飲業者真的能夠有開大門走大路的時候這是國內所有旅遊業者的期待謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:38:58.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:38:59.101000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:38:59.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:39:01.342000+08:00","text":"麻煩請交通部陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:39:01.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:39:07.466000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:39:07.466000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:39:08.466000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:39:07.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:39:07.466000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:39:08.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:39:20.396000+08:00","text":"部長，今天我們討論到中東情勢，國際油價飆升對於航空業者的衝擊，當然首當其衝的就是運輸衝擊絕對不要影響到民生。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:39:20.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:00.187000+08:00","text":"但另外一方面，因為整體你們的報告，不管是海陸空等相關的運輸，現在都面臨到一個問題，就是都是政府補貼或是中油來吸收，這個我也在財政委員會有問過，但是沒有辦法得到答案，假設中東戰事持續延燒，沒有人說得準它什麼時候結束，我們能夠補貼或是我們的臨界點到底在哪裡，有沒有一個預期的心理，不要讓社會大眾造成恐慌，我們也不希望讓社會大眾突然間手足無措，請部長說明一下。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:00.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:11.413000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，目前我們就是依照行政院的要求跟指示，對於整體國內公共運輸的票價會做不調整的作為，但我們目前……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:11.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:13.335000+08:00","text":"可以不調整到什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:13.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:22.219000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，我們目前規劃出來的，除了到年底是一個版本之外，另外針對明年一整年，也就是116年的部分我們也有提出預算的需求。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:36.150000+08:00","text":"如果要做兩年，比如說要做到116年底整體補貼的措施，要讓國內公共運輸能平穩的話，其實我們有提出一個預算上面的需求，就看到時候行政院對於預算要怎麼去安排。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:36.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:46.840000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們先講，因為現在是4月，到今年年底不管油價怎麼樣飆升，不管中東戰事怎麼樣演變，我們都不會調漲陸、海、空運輸的票價？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:46.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:50.242000+08:00","text":"目前國內的公共運輸在政策上是不調漲的。確定？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:50.242000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:40:52.103000+08:00","text":"是，目前的政策是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:40:52.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:10.850000+08:00","text":"部長，其實國際原油的價格，在你的報告以及各部會的報告裡面都來到一桶132美金，而這一次的中東戰事更創下了144美金，也就是有國際原油價格交易以來的歷史新高。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:11.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:18.293000+08:00","text":"另一方面，現在看到航空燃油的價格，它是翻倍成長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:18.293000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:19.293000+08:00","text":"是的，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:18.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:37.005000+08:00","text":"有翻倍的漲幅，所以本席才會問，到目前為止我們的因應規劃，即便中東戰事持續延燒，我們都有信心能夠在今年年底以前讓國內的運輸，不管是高鐵、臺鐵以及公路客運都不調漲？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:37.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:41.868000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，行政院的政策是這個方向沒有錯，所以交通部會照這個方向執行，這個沒問題。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:42.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:48.793000+08:00","text":"好，那我們就看你……另外我們也要說，如果要這樣子的話，預估要多少成本？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:49.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:41:54.996000+08:00","text":"我們過去這一年、過去這一個多月的時間已經花出了多少的預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:41:55.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:00.238000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，我們到明年底，如果是估算到明年底的話，預算差不多是85億。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:00.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:01.099000+08:00","text":"我先問的是這一個月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:02.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:02.839000+08:00","text":"這一個月？對啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:03.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:07.882000+08:00","text":"就是2月28號到現在相關的補貼或是相關的吸收。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:08.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:21.957000+08:00","text":"目前我們有實際落實到需要補貼的部分是只有空運油價的部分，因為我們請中油公司協助，從44塊的油價調降到28塊，中間的價差……","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:21.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:24.699000+08:00","text":"所以目前都還是中油公司吸收大部分，對不對？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:24.699000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:26+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:30.804000+08:00","text":"所以中油公司才會說它過去這一個月已經吸收了破百億的成本嘛！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:30.804000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:32.104000+08:00","text":"沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:32.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:36.047000+08:00","text":"未來交通部這邊會跟中油公司……還是全部都讓中油公司這邊來吸收？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:37.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:46.797000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，在航空燃油的部分，我們目前是拜託中油公司先幫忙調降那個價格，但實際上我們到最後會編列預算還給中油公司，也就是由交通部這邊來補貼。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:47.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:42:52.643000+08:00","text":"即便是國內線的航空燃油，到目前為止也都是歷史新高。是。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:42:54.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:03.278000+08:00","text":"過去我看到在中油的數據裡面，國內線航空的燃油已到了44塊，以往沒有超過40塊的，所以現在是歷史新高嘛！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:03.278000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:04.299000+08:00","text":"對，現在是44塊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:04.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:07.403000+08:00","text":"所以未來交通部也會編列預算再給中油公司？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:07.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:07.884000+08:00","text":"這個沒有問題，這個我們會做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:09.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:20.337000+08:00","text":"另外我們看到，韓國政府有祭出節能政策，也就是要限行公共機關的車輛，並且頒布12項的節能行動指引。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:21.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:29.365000+08:00","text":"卓榮泰院長之前被問到的時候也講，政府應該帶頭開源節流，對外的車輛出入都要盡量精簡。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:30.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:39.533000+08:00","text":"我想請教身為中央主管機關的交通部，對於公務部門體系出入車輛盡量精簡的具體措施、要求跟辦法是什麼？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:39.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:44.236000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，目前沒有訂定這樣子的辦法，但大家都有這樣的默契，因為院長……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:45.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:50.621000+08:00","text":"卓榮泰院長講要盡量精簡，但是沒有任何的措施辦法。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:51.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:43:52.981000+08:00","text":"我們目前有盡量在精簡……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:43:53.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:00.440000+08:00","text":"那我請教一下，今天有那麼多的部會，但大部分都是交通部的同仁，剛剛有沒有共乘過來的首長？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:02.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:03.779000+08:00","text":"首長有沒有共乘過來？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:03.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:07.381000+08:00","text":"部長有沒有邀請哪一個司長跟你一起坐車然後不要說……","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:07.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:09.002000+08:00","text":"司長他們都是共乘過來的。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:09.002000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:10.002000+08:00","text":"司長是共乘過來的，那部長呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:09.782000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:16.086000+08:00","text":"我們現在都要求共乘，因為我出發的地點跟他們不一樣，所以沒有辦法共乘。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:16.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:16.986000+08:00","text":"你剛剛不是從交通部過來？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:16.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:19.208000+08:00","text":"我剛剛不是從交通部過來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:19.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:36.999000+08:00","text":"所以本席要講的是，現在卓榮泰院長講了要盡量精簡，但實際上沒有相關的辦法跟作為，身為中央主管機關，我們看到韓國確實……因為中東油價不是我們能夠控制的，但我們要大家可以盡量訂出辦法。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:37.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:46.186000+08:00","text":"我們已經看到韓國了，他們是頒布12項的節能行動指引，縮短淋浴時間、白天充電、公部門車輛上路分流管制。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:47.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:54.372000+08:00","text":"我想請教，交通部對於這種全民運動是不是也要帶頭做起、以身作則？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:54.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:44:57.514000+08:00","text":"是不是要訂立相關的政策研擬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:44:57.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:00.115000+08:00","text":"如果中東戰事持續延燒的話，我們要怎麼做？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:00.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:05.137000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，如果您說的是交通部必須自己先做的話，這個部分我們正在執行當中。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:06.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:11.320000+08:00","text":"至於有沒有辦法由我們這邊來制定一個辦法，要求整個政府機關或者是民眾大家來配合？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:11.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:18.164000+08:00","text":"我也覺得委員的這個建議蠻好的，我們會研議這個方面，看要怎麼呼籲大家盡量節能，這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起合作。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:20.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:25.607000+08:00","text":"這是卓榮泰院長所講的，他要公務車輛盡量精簡，但是不要只有口號沒有具體的作為。","quality":0.657},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:25.607000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:26.607000+08:00","text":"實際上是有在做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:25.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:40.154000+08:00","text":"本席從過去到現在都一直強調我們要「務實」而不是「務虛」，不能只是喊口號，所以這一點是本席要提出來的，如果你要研議相關辦法給行政院參考，甚至廣泛的話什麼時候可以研議出來？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:40.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:41.935000+08:00","text":"給我們一個月的時間，我們來跟行政院這邊溝通。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:41.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:42.135000+08:00","text":"一個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:42.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:45.016000+08:00","text":"好，本席就給你一個月的時間。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:45.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:45:56.680000+08:00","text":"部長，最後還是要強調中國大陸對臺的10個政策，本席剛剛有看到您有在外面受訪，有講到橄欖枝有可能會變成棒子。是。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:45:57.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:03.863000+08:00","text":"所以你現在認為中國大陸對臺的10個政策，現階段算是橄欖枝還是棒子？","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:04.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:08.006000+08:00","text":"是橄欖枝還是棒子其實我看不太出來，因為對於我們來說……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:08.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:09.127000+08:00","text":"你不認為它是橄欖枝？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:10.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:19.253000+08:00","text":"這樣說好了，臺灣目前要到中國大陸自由行的，我們完全沒有限制，我們國民任何人要去都可以。是嘛？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:19.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:23.736000+08:00","text":"不管怎麼樣，今天是中國大陸這邊提出來，本席沒有要……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:23.736000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:24.736000+08:00","text":"但中國目前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:24.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:35.563000+08:00","text":"我現在在強調的是，我想要確認交通部的態度，因為我們看到很多的觀光、旅遊、住宿、飯店、餐飲、運輸業者，也都很期待兩岸有春暖花開的時候。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:36.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:37.124000+08:00","text":"當然你一定會講，哎呀！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:38.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:46:46.928000+08:00","text":"我們有多元市場，我們有開放觀光，但是很現實的層面，過去我們觀光客能破千萬是因為有三、四百萬名的陸客。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:46:47.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:00.134000+08:00","text":"我現在想要請教的是，有業者也認為，近年我方有各種的推託、閃躲、技術刁難，簡而言之就是雙方沒有互信，想談也沒有辦法起頭。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:00.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:13.332000+08:00","text":"這是業者認為的，媒體就直接報導了觀光、旅遊、飯店業者的說法，我只想請教，現在對方丟了一個球，第一，我們官方的態度認為這是橄欖枝嗎？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:14.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:18.776000+08:00","text":"回到我剛剛說的話題，對於自由行，臺灣是沒有任何限制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:18.776000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:19.776000+08:00","text":"你還是沒有明確回答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:19.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:29.704000+08:00","text":"我們目前看到中國開放了上海跟福建可以來臺灣自由行，如果這就叫善意的話，那請問一下，對上海跟福建以外的限制算是惡意嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:31.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:32.079000+08:00","text":"會不會是另外一種惡意？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:32.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:41.706000+08:00","text":"假設上海跟福建的人口占他們總體國民的十分之一，那它目前還禁止了十分之九，到底是誰比較有善意？","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:41.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:43.307000+08:00","text":"我看應該是我們比較有善意吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:44.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:49.523000+08:00","text":"部長，你完全搞錯這個問題的重點了，我現在只想問的是，你認不認為他現在的做法是遞橄欖枝？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:50.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:52.806000+08:00","text":"如果是的話，可以進一步談。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:52.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:53.806000+08:00","text":"其實我希望是橄欖枝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:52.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:47:56.068000+08:00","text":"我現在想要確認官方的立場跟態度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:47:57.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:05.556000+08:00","text":"如果因為這樣的一個動作，兩邊可以……譬如說丟球、接球，觀光、旅遊、飯店、住宿業者對此也有所期待。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:06.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:09.638000+08:00","text":"但如果今天官方的態度就是不願意接球，或者認為這不是橄欖枝的話，我們當然也可以直接讓業者知道，我們不認為嘛！","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:09.638000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:10.638000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，是不是橄欖枝……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:09.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:10.138000+08:00","text":"所以現在的重點就在，你覺得是不是橄欖枝？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:10.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:10.698000+08:00","text":"後續要不要啟動溝通的程序？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:23.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:33.089000+08:00","text":"因為過去他們時常把橄欖枝當棍子在用，所以我現在無法判斷，但您說的啟動，其實我們早就啟動了，我講過好多次，我們回到小兩會的談判、回到小兩會的溝通，我們每一次都講同樣的話。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:33.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:41.413000+08:00","text":"現在資深的旅遊業者講小兩會是談團體的旅客，但是大陸是開放自由行的旅客。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:42.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:43.153000+08:00","text":"為什麼要透過小兩會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:43.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:44.134000+08:00","text":"是要談什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:44.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:46.735000+08:00","text":"根本就是開放就可以做到的事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:46.735000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:47.735000+08:00","text":"我們其實是不分的，我認為業者的說法是錯誤的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:46.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:51.937000+08:00","text":"所以赴陸禁團令的理由，根本就是什麼理由都有。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:51.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:53.217000+08:00","text":"委員，業者的說法是錯誤的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:53.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:55.058000+08:00","text":"這是媒體報導的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:55.058000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:56.058000+08:00","text":"業者的說法是錯誤的，媒體的報導、業者的說法是錯誤的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:55.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:58.419000+08:00","text":"如果你認為媒體報導是錯誤的，請你更正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:58.419000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:48:59.419000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，我們可以更正，我們可以發新聞稿。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:48:59.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:11.626000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到的地方，就是對於基層或是對第一線的旅遊人士來講，他們當然希望在捍衛中華民國主權立場的情況下，能夠更開大門、走大路。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:11.626000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:12.626000+08:00","text":"只要能回到小兩會好好地談……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:12.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:17.270000+08:00","text":"過去2008年到2016年馬政府時代可以做的事情，為什麼民進黨政府沒有辦法做？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:17.270000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:18.270000+08:00","text":"我們希望能夠回到小兩會好好地談。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:17.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:18.511000+08:00","text":"還有就是我們為什麼沒辦法有更春暖花開的時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:18.511000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:19.511000+08:00","text":"絕對可以，只要回到小兩會絕對會春暖花開。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:18.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:19.091000+08:00","text":"所以這一點才是官方的立場跟態度，現在這讓我們覺得模糊不清。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:19.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:20.091000+08:00","text":"不會，我們不會模糊，回到小兩會一切都很好談。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:19.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:20.152000+08:00","text":"要讓業者知道有沒有機會有春暖花開的時候。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:20.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:20.532000+08:00","text":"一定可以春暖花開，委員您放心。好。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:20.532000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:35.624000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:35.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:37.005000+08:00","text":"不要口惠實不至啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:37.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:38.005000+08:00","text":"會實至啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:38.005000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:39.005000+08:00","text":"只要回到小兩會，一切都可以好好談。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:37.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:46.214000+08:00","text":"我真的只能講不要口惠實不至，就如同剛剛講的，不管是公務車的精簡政策，到目前為止沒有落實任何辦法。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T09:49:46.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T09:49:59.648000+08:00","text":"現在不要口惠實不至，我今天是代表所有飯店、旅遊、住宿、觀光、餐飲的業者，希望真的能夠有開大門走大路的時候，這是國內所有旅遊業者的期待，謝謝。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:00.148000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:02.148000+08:00","text":"感謝洪孟楷委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T09:50:02.448000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T09:50:05.590857+08:00","text":"接下來請萬美玲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}