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謝謝主席 有請次長 謝謝請陳次長委員好好 次長好那這個就是這次電子的入境卡那對方看起來是把那個欄位先暫時就是不需要再填上去那我想知道的事情就是說這個整個溝通的過程因為現在看起來是有一個好的結果"},{"start":24.87,"end":45.052,"text":"那這整個溝通的過程因為中間我們在詢問的時候呢也不好讓這一個外交部就直接公開說我們就是應該要怎麼處理或什麼之類這個都在外交上可能不是那麼好的事但現在因為告一個段落所以我想知道就是說在因為這個時間算是蠻長的那這個整個溝通的過程當中遇到了什麼阻礙那我們的方法是什麼"},{"start":46.316,"end":70.289,"text":"報告委員,那麼在這個過程之中我們也提醒了這個韓方必須要基於兩邊人民密切的往來這個事實上面能夠正視我們國家的一個適當的稱呼所以在這個交涉的過程裡面我們對韓方表達了這樣的一個東西但是我說一個實在的就是說在這個事情上面我們必須要務實以對那麼韓方一樣面對到中國非常大的一個壓力"},{"start":70.749,"end":93.516,"text":"所以我們希望在這件事情上面我們心裡面我們知道這樣一個什麼回事但是我們都給予韓方一個空間就是需要一些時間來做一個調整那我們對於這個韓國現在推出的這個相當程度上面這個便利旅客的這個相關的一個務實的一個做法我們是感覺到是歡迎這樣的一個做法"},{"start":94.016,"end":110.753,"text":"那麼我們也會持續的滾動檢討我們跟這個韓國的這個關係是不是在其他的方面能夠得到好的一個提升尤其是說我們都是在同樣在這個區域的國家我們跟這個韓國那麼有密切的一個往來同樣的一個安全的一個圖像"},{"start":111.814,"end":133.482,"text":"同樣的這個民間的這個不管是教育文化各種方面的一個交流我們跟韓邦明確的表達我們重視這個東西我們正視這個東西也希望韓邦一樣的來value這樣的一個事情所以我們感覺到很好的是說我們把這樣一個訴求給韓邦那麼他們也在務實的一個考慮之下那麼來做了一個相對應的一個調整韓邦"},{"start":135.683,"end":152.007,"text":"基於這樣一個行政簡化的考慮來做一個他們的電子路徑卡的調整那我們覺得這是一個非常好的作為我們也歡迎這樣的一個做法那麼我們也了解這個過程之中"},{"start":152.54,"end":169.223,"text":"那麼裡面所牽涉到的很多的這個部分那麼這很棒的這個東西我想這一個很多的這個內部的一個種種那也牽涉到兩邊的這個互動交往的一個秘密我們就不詳述但是我們看到是一個正面的一個結果是好的"},{"start":169.703,"end":193.681,"text":"對 因為我覺得就是說 這個次長剛剛我覺得講的有一個觀念是很好的就是說呢 我們是會強調我們在跟他們期待不管是文化啦 教育啦 等等之類的一個交流這個交流是持續的 我們不會說因為一個單一事件然後就是說 那其他的交流我們是不是要停止我們現在目前的做法是點對點就是說 他今天做的是跟國民有關的所以我們之前也有放出來說 欸 我們是不是也要做跟國民有關"},{"start":194.341,"end":215.396,"text":"那這件事情重要是因為我看到很多人當然可能因為這個事件對韓國產生了一些不滿的情緒那這個情緒呢在外交上面我們不能讓它蔓延到其他的領域因為畢竟整件事情始作俑者一定都還是中國嘛所以說這都是跟中國有關的打壓才會有這樣的一個境界那我們今天如果人民有這樣的一個情緒的時候我們應該把它導引到告訴大家講說"},{"start":216.477,"end":230.717,"text":"這是中國的問題這是中國在施壓的問題我們要去找那個源頭我們在讓他們他們自己也要丟那個源頭我們也要所以在這個基礎之下怎麼去使它改變這個其實是外交上的藝術我說有一些當然就慢慢在這邊講"},{"start":232.199,"end":252.751,"text":"這也是為什麼中國在世界上面被視之為一個不良的一個影響,一個non-influence的原因就是在這個地方。它常常會把自己的意志強加在這個國際思維上面,企圖顛覆那麼以規則為基礎的國際思維。那我想這個在跟中國交往過程,在這幾年我想世界上主要的國家都越來越有清楚的認識了。"},{"start":253.892,"end":281.293,"text":"那接下來就是說因為丹麥現在我們也是在溝通當中那之前這一個部長在講的時候是說那其實呢他更像是其中幾位就是這個官僚體系裡面的成員的堅持那這件事情的進度呢這個相關的一個進度我們在上次取消若干他們駐台的一個特權我們雙方都還在接觸在談的過程裡面那麼詳細我們是不是請我們的歐洲司稍微再做一個簡要的報告"},{"start":283.872,"end":300.599,"text":"我們除了取消他的特權禮遇我想我們還會進一步來限縮雙方現在都還在溝通之中我們的一些朋友包括國會議員包括媒體的朋友丹麥媒體的朋友也都非常清楚的表達對台灣的支持"},{"start":301.099,"end":318.187,"text":"我們希望持續的這個予以單方壓力對 因為我看丹麥的這些媒體還有人民他們其實對這件事情並不是直接站在就是這一個政府的丹麥政府的那一方所以我覺得這個可能是一些官僚體系上的一些溝通這個就再請這一個黃世昌再多加把勁就是"},{"start":321.708,"end":345.896,"text":"看能不能嘗試把它扭轉過來一定一定我們現在是說這相關的這個東西我們都有這個他說要透過各方面的一個努力那我們知道說丹麥的民意其實是支持台灣的所以是說在這個基礎之上我們要動員各種有我的力量能夠促成他們做一個好的一個改變好謝謝那我接下來要問經濟部是有請這個經濟部的主秘謝謝"},{"start":352.145,"end":373.096,"text":"因為時間的因素我就比較快速的問就是說有兩次一次就是在4月8號大概是一個禮拜以前那時候說我們預計4月有4艘郵輪共約8萬桶的原油自鴻海陸續輸出那這件事情跟之前再更早一點是3月多的時候那個時候這個富比士雜誌有說台灣最多是撐個100天左右等等之類的"},{"start":377.578,"end":394.137,"text":"因為從3月20一直到剛剛講的這個4月8號然後一直到現在因為這個是每天都在變化那目前最新的狀況評估是如何我們這些我們的不管是我們的存量這些到底有沒有可能如期的到達台灣然後如期到達台灣那有沒有更多目前經濟部的評估如何"},{"start":394.717,"end":416.576,"text":"跟委員報告其實二月底中東戰爭開始以來其實進一步我們就馬上成立能源應變小組而且是每天開會因為我們次長每天召集向中油相關的一個機關那我們細到程度包含向委員關心的我們會掌握我們現在從到目前我們已經掌握到六月底我們可以需要本來從那個會經過橫浦之海峽的傳輸有多少"},{"start":419.378,"end":448.278,"text":"那因為這些因素他可能沒有辦法順利出口我們替代的來源包含除了剛剛講委員所提到我們從中東地區換其他的出口點之外我們會找其他非中東地區所以我們現在已經完全掌握到六月底我們本來需要經過某座海峽的一個船隻的一個替代方案所以六月底目前所有的來源都已經掌握得非常清楚而且可以穩定供應而且不影響原來的安全存量OK那因為這個戰事到底會怎樣我們都抓不得準嘛"},{"start":448.658,"end":467.825,"text":"那即使我們今天像聽起來到六月底這個目前是安全的但因為油價這種事情更多的是預期的心理那一旦有這些預期的心理的影響等等之類的波動我知道我們現在也是每個禮拜都有這個物價這個穩定的這個波動的這個小組要做應對那因為畢竟在台灣會需要用油的"},{"start":469.086,"end":483.465,"text":"司機們還有職業駕駛等等之類的所以現在我是在想說就是經濟部這一邊如果是針對一些就是職業駕駛它一定程度的一些補助等等之類的這個目前是不是已經有在規劃"},{"start":485.026,"end":501.093,"text":"其實我們已經連續兩週動漲我們的油價了那其實這已經是我們針對油價會對國內剛剛提到的就是職業價值或甚至對國內整體物價可能影響的一個因應措施因為我們也觀察到其他國家也是擔心他們"},{"start":502.333,"end":520.105,"text":"油價對物價影響所以很多國家也都是在掌控他們國內相關油價或是石油原料所衍生的相關產品的一個售價那目前國內的做法其實也會朝穩定國內物價方向來努力對 這個是指供給面嘛就是說供給面這邊的價格我們想要把它穩定嘛"},{"start":520.365,"end":541.194,"text":"我講的是另外一方面就是需求的這一方那需求的這一方他有多少的補助或者說他有沒有什麼方案可以搭配這個對他對於未來的這個安全感一定會有加強所以這個部分雖然因為時間的關係可能沒有辦法把它問完但是可能之後我會想再知道就是說我們在需求面這一邊我們對他們的幫助有沒有一些比較制度化的做法"},{"start":541.567,"end":560.048,"text":"好 委員提醒這塊其實是一道交通部他針對有關職業價值所以我們會 委員的建議我們可以來跟交通部來研議看看職業價值在這一塊他們實際面臨的壓力那有沒有需要進一步這邊來跟交通部合作的一個政策好 沒問題到時候我們就在跨部會再來討論這件事情是好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:37:27.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.179000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.199000+08:00","text":"請陳次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.239000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.299000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:37:28.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:37:31.160000+08:00","text":"關於這次電子入境卡，對方看起來是把那個欄位先暫時不需要再填上去，我想知道的事情是整個溝通的過程，現在看起來是有一個好的結果。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:37:51.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:38:11.052000+08:00","text":"在整個溝通過程，因為中間我們在詢問的時候也不好讓外交部直接公開說我們就是應該要怎麼處理或什麼之類，在外交上可能不是那麼好的事，但現在已經告一個段落，所以我想知道的是，因為這個時間算滿長的，整個溝通的過程當中遇到了什麼阻礙，我們的方法是什麼？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:38:12.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:38:27.864000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在這個過程之中，我們也提醒韓方必須要基於兩邊人民密切往來的事實，能夠正視我們國家的適當稱呼，所以在交涉的過程裡面，我們對韓方表達了這樣的立場。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:38:28.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:38:46.532000+08:00","text":"但是我說實在的，在這個事情上面，我們必須要務實以對，韓方一樣面對中國非常大的壓力，所以在這個事情上面，我們心裡面都知道這是怎麼回事，但是我們給予韓方空間，這需要一些時間來做調整。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:38:47.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:39:15.572000+08:00","text":"我們對於韓國現在推出的相當程度上便利旅客相關的務實做法，我們感覺到是歡迎這樣的做法，我們也會持續滾動檢討我們跟韓國的關係，是不是在其他方面能夠得到好的提升，尤其我們都是同樣在這個區域的國家，我們跟韓國有密切的往來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:39:15.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:39:39.302000+08:00","text":"同樣的一個安全圖像，同樣的民間不管是教育、文化等各種方面交流，我們跟韓方明確表達我們重視這個東西、我們正視這個東西，也希望韓方一樣value這樣的事情，所以我們感覺到很好的是，我們把這樣的訴求提供給韓方，他們也在務實的考慮之下，做了一個相對應的調整。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:39:39.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:40:15.203000+08:00","text":"韓方基於行政簡化的考慮，針對電子入境卡的調整，我們覺得這是一個非常好的作為，我們也歡迎這樣的做法、我們也了解這個過程之中牽涉到很多部分，我們與韓方有很多內部的種種，也牽涉到兩邊互動交往的秘密，我們就不詳述，但是我們看到的是一個正面結果，是好的。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:40:15.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:40:39.681000+08:00","text":"我覺得次長剛剛講的有一個觀念是很好的，就是我們會強調我們跟他們的期待，不管是文化、教育等等之類的交流，這個交流是持續的，我們不會因為一個單一事件，就說其他的交流是不是要停止，我們目前的做法是點對點，他今天做的是跟國名有關的，所以我們之前也有放出來說我們是不是也要做跟國名有關。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:40:40.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:40:57.413000+08:00","text":"這件事情重要是因為我看到很多人可能因為這個事件，對韓國產生了一些不滿的情緒，這個情緒在外交上面，我們不能讓它蔓延到其他的領域，因為畢竟整件事情的始作俑者一定都還是中國、都是跟中國有關的打壓，才會有這樣的境界。","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:40:58.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:41:16.717000+08:00","text":"今天人民有這樣的情緒，我們應該把他導引到告訴大家這是中國的問題，是中國在施壓的問題，我們要去找那個源頭，他們自己也要deal那個源頭，我們也要，所以在這個基礎之下，怎麼去使他改變，其實是外交上的藝術，當然有一些就不方便在這邊講。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:41:18.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:41:38.731000+08:00","text":"這也是為什麼中國在世界上面被視之為一個不良影響（noninfluence），種種原因就是在這個地方，他常常會把自己的意志強加在國際秩序上面，企圖顛覆以規則為基礎的國際秩序，在跟中國交往的過程中，這幾年我想世界上主要國家都越來越有清楚的認識。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:41:40.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:41:54.323000+08:00","text":"接下來，因為丹麥現在我們也是在溝通當中，之前部長在講的時候是說其實他更像是其中幾位官僚體系裡面成員的堅持，這件事情的進度呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:41:55.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:42:07.273000+08:00","text":"相關的進度，我們上次取消他們駐臺的若干特權，雙方都還在接觸、在談的過程裡面，詳細的部分，是不是請歐洲司稍微來做簡要報告？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃司長鈞耀","start":"2026-04-15T10:42:10.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:42:16.135000+08:00","text":"除了取消他的特權禮遇，我想我們還會進一步來限縮。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃司長鈞耀","start":"2026-04-15T10:42:16.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:42:30.200000+08:00","text":"雙方現在都還在溝通之中，我們的一些朋友，包括國會議員、包括丹麥的媒體朋友，也都非常清楚地表達對臺灣的支持，我們希望持續予以單方壓力。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:42:30.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:42:49.209000+08:00","text":"對，因為我看丹麥的這些媒體及人民，他們對於這件事情並不是直接站在丹麥政府的那一方，所以我覺得這真的可能是一些官僚體系上的溝通，請黃司長再多加把勁，看能不能嘗試把他扭轉過來。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T10:42:49.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:07.794000+08:00","text":"一定、一定，現在在相關的部分，我們都有這個……它都要透過各方面的努力，我們知道丹麥的民意其實是支持臺灣的，所以在這個基礎之上，我們要動員各種友我力量，能夠促成他們做一個好的改變。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:07.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:08.975000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:09.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:11.896000+08:00","text":"我接下來要問經濟部，是不是有請經濟部主秘？謝謝。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"莊主任秘書銘池","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:11.896000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:18.145000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:18.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:20.186000+08:00","text":"因為時間的因素，我就會比較快速地詢問。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:21.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:31.592000+08:00","text":"這有兩次，一次是在4月8號，大概是一個禮拜以前，那時候說預計4月有4艘油輪，共約800萬桶原油自紅海陸續輸出。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:32.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:51.046000+08:00","text":"這件事情跟之前再更早一點在三月多的時候，那時富比世雜誌有說臺灣最多撐個100天左右等等之類，因為從3月20日到剛剛講的4月8號，一直到現在，這個是每天都在變化，目前最新的狀況評估是如何？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:52.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:56.953000+08:00","text":"針對我們的存量，到底有沒有可能如期到達臺灣？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:57.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:43:58.555000+08:00","text":"如期到達臺灣的有沒有更多？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:43:58.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:44:00.117000+08:00","text":"目前經濟部的評估如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊主任秘書銘池","start":"2026-04-15T10:44:00.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:44:51.116000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，2月底中東戰爭開始以來，經濟部就馬上成立能源應變小組，而且是每天開會，由我們次長每天召集中油等相關機關，包含像委員關心的，目前我們是掌握到6月底本來會經過荷姆茲海峽的船數有多少，因為這些因素可能沒有辦法順利出口，我們會找替代的來源，包含剛剛委員所提到我們從中東地區換其他的出口點之外，同時也會找其他非中東地區輸出口，所以我們現在已經完全掌握到6月底本來需要經過荷姆茲海峽船隻的替代方案，目前所有的來源都已經掌握得非常清楚，可以穩定供應，而且不影響原來的安全存量。OK。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:44:51.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:45:27.302000+08:00","text":"因為這個戰事到底會怎樣我們都抓不準，即使我們今天這樣聽起來，到6月底目前是安全的，但油價這種事情更多的是預期心理，一旦有這些預期心理影響等等之類的波動，我知道我們現在也是每個禮拜都有物價穩定波動小組要做應對，畢竟在臺灣會需要用油的，大部分都是司機們、職業駕駛等等之類的，我在想經濟部是不是能針對一些職業駕駛有一定程度的補助等等措施？","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:45:28.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:45:29.465000+08:00","text":"這個目前是不是已經有在規劃？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊主任秘書銘池","start":"2026-04-15T10:45:31.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:45:43.271000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們已經連續兩週凍漲油價了，這已經是我們針對油價對剛剛你提到的國內職業駕駛，甚至對國內整體物價可能影響的因應措施。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"莊主任秘書銘池","start":"2026-04-15T10:45:43.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:01.882000+08:00","text":"我們也觀察到其他國家也擔心油價對物價的影響，所以很多國家也都在掌控他們國內相關油價或是石油原料所衍生相關產品的售價，目前國內做法也會朝穩定國內物價的方向努力。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:02.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:13.828000+08:00","text":"對，這個是指供給面的價格，我們想辦法把它穩定，我講的是另外一方面，就是需求的這一方，他有多少的補助，或者說他有沒有什麼方案可以搭配？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:14.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:27.174000+08:00","text":"這個對於他未來的安全感一定會有加強，因為時間的關係，這部分可能沒有辦法把它問完，可能之後我會想再知道我們在需求面這一邊，我們對他們的幫助有沒有一些比較制度化的做法？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"莊主任秘書銘池","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:27.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:42.124000+08:00","text":"委員，這塊其實是移到交通部去針對職業駕駛，對委員的建議，我們可以跟交通部研議，看看職業駕駛在這一塊他們實際面臨的壓力，有沒有需要進一步來跟交通部合作的政策？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:42.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:43.205000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:43.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:45.888000+08:00","text":"到時候我們跨部會再來討論這件事情，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊主任秘書銘池","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:45.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:46.048000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T10:46:46.548000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T10:46:50.262286+08:00","text":"接下來請王安祥委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}