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我跟委員報告我跟你講放話的意思就是說你們沒有具名是誰講的那就我就這麼說好不好那個我跟委員報告 那麼因為雖然跟這個紅國跟這個中國建交時間不長"},{"start":79.226,"end":104.041,"text":"但是現在我們得到的一個訊息是紅國並不完全了解前任的政府跟中國簽下了多少的相關的一些協議很擔心帥兒跟中國斷交跟我們復交會不會產生一些很大的經驗他們比較謹慎我們也尊重所以我們現在逐步的來考量看看能夠得到相關的一個訊息"},{"start":104.701,"end":124.248,"text":"副交部的今天新聞寫說認為他們跟台灣復交的步驟會很謹慎是指的是洪都拉斯方面會很謹慎是嗎洪都拉斯方面會推轉得很謹慎就主要還是擔心過去前任政府所留下來的他們說的地雷"},{"start":124.828,"end":147.427,"text":"那我們在這個事情上面當然也會跟他一起來開神部所以您的意思是就您現在目前的掌握只要再將前一任政府跟中國大陸這邊他們所簽下的一些相關的協議那有了初步的判斷整理之後他們就會遂行跟中華民國復交是嗎"},{"start":147.887,"end":157.13,"text":"現在它的盤點啦,我覺得是說就我們現在得到的一個訊息是說他們請我們現在先這個稍安勿躁那會不會被騙了?我覺得機率不高耶,報告委員,那個他們這個是一個競選的時候的承諾"},{"start":163.972,"end":185.398,"text":"對啊 那很多人競選程度也都沒做到啊賴清德總統很多競選程度也都沒做到啊我們台灣也都是這樣子啊那洪都拉斯他們也是自己國家自己民情我也不一定就是說我們從我們國家的現實主義的利益來說我們也不可能就是說全然相信別人跟我們講的就一定是真的吧如果總是要這麼天真的話那我們的外交該怎麼樣前進呢"},{"start":186.098,"end":214.316,"text":"是我是說我們有沒有評估說他們今天的這些說法有可能是托詞如果你認為不是托詞的話那你的理由跟依據又是什麼沒有那個我們持續有在雙方互動溝通啦同時我們還有很多的其他的這個國家也在協助我們能夠這個往這個台紅復交很多國家是像什麼樣的國家比如我們的重要的友邦這個美國他們在整個的國家戰略裡面提到他們的所謂的西半球的這個優先"},{"start":215.737,"end":235.392,"text":"但是事情上面是說我們在很多的時候跟這個美國有良好的互動溝通那我們也看到是說這個紅國的這個主要的政治領導人當他們有機會跟美國接觸的時候那他們現在跟中國大陸的這個交往是如何的是有暫停掉了還是說其實實際上還是交往非常密切"},{"start":236.252,"end":250.44,"text":"雙學費兩岸之間都我請一下我們的這個韓司長稍微細節上面再跟委員報告一下簡單說明一下好不好因為我後面還有問題他是駐中國的大使1月26號跟前政府就一起辭職了"},{"start":251.34,"end":277.2,"text":"到現在還沒有任命大使所以現在目前沒有任命大使好那我了解了那我們也對這個事情是有期待的那希望呢當然對方有要謹慎的地方我們都可以理解但是希望我們能夠恢復一個邦交國這對中華民國來說是相當重要的那為什麼我剛剛會講到就是說我們對於其他國家的說法必須要很謹慎而且要做多方面的考量主要跟像我們像是CPTPP也是一樣的"},{"start":278.121,"end":301.376,"text":"我們都知道政府在對外宣示爭取加入CPTPP這件事情實際上在執行層次上面是消極是敷衍的也沒有具體的時程跟規劃所以說其實我們看到3月的時候卓榮泰院長他講到就是說針對CPTPP要重新盤點然後設定目標跟時間表要由經濟部跟外交部來分工推進"},{"start":302.176,"end":308.982,"text":"可是從那時候到現在請問一下我們有沒有檢討一下那到底要怎麼樣去改進啊"},{"start":310.281,"end":320.884,"text":"報告委員在CPTPP上面我去年因為擔任相關的主管業務我也拜訪了好幾個國家遊說我們的陸會案的確國際有一些現實以我們現在的經貿大國來說我也希望能夠塑造一個有我的氣氛那我請問一下為什麼你看起來很積極那為什麼我們的經貿當初的談判我們就不談特別的名字了"},{"start":339.87,"end":366.576,"text":"那就是說有參與到這個事情裡面的同仁他們認為說是非常消極的他的說法看起來跟你是差異很大這個我們尊重當事人的感覺啦但就外交部來說全力以赴我去了拜訪了英國 拜訪了澳洲 拜訪了加拿大英國是新加入的我除了傳達我們要加入的這個意願那同時也跟他討論說到底我們遇到的困難在哪裡"},{"start":367.316,"end":381.207,"text":"我們也希望從英國那邊學到是說怎麼樣是能夠加入他準備哪一些的你跟他學沒有用啊我們這個狀況差很多啊去年部長在這個委員會我就問過他那時候部長他講到說我們已經跟12個會員國裡面的其中一個會員國進行實質的討論那請問目前有增加嗎"},{"start":390.254,"end":411.584,"text":"實質討論喔 不是說是拜會實質討論要讓人家讓我們推進到CPTPP的部分從去年11月的時候林佳龍部長他講說是一個那到現在請問增加到幾個人呢?那麼就具體的數字喔 我想是說我們還是在努力之中啦對 那當初林佳龍部長可以告訴我是一個那現在為什麼不能講啊?"},{"start":412.654,"end":437.701,"text":"現在沒有不能講,其實還是一個的意思因為去年的時候是澳洲擔任主席,所以我特別去澳洲一趟但是去年很可惜的,我們有提出入會的一個方法的新的訴求包括說能夠成立,優先成立這個工作小組部長都有跟我說,沒有得到正面的回應"},{"start":439.501,"end":461.228,"text":"現在狀況也是說CPTPP每次換一個輪值的主席國的時候呢我們都會覺得我們有突破的機會那都有機會讓這個CPTPP的部長會議推動成立剛剛您說的台灣的入會小組可是呢如果沒有成立成功的話那就又變成是好那這個有現實上面的考量的壓力等等的那今年我們預計的進展是什麼"},{"start":462.768,"end":485.499,"text":"那今年的主席國是輪到了這個越南嘛那我們跟越南有相當密切的商貿的關係啦我們希望在這個基礎上面那麼能夠雙方有好的一個對話你們不能每年都這樣講因為你們每年都告訴我們說我們今年跟澳洲也很好我們去年跟澳洲也很好我們今年跟越南也很好可是最後一整年下來是徒勞無功的那當然就會有這個"},{"start":488.1,"end":504.565,"text":"這個經貿這邊辦公室的人他們覺得說好像是很無所作為等等但是他的說法我尊重他的評論但我的意思是說今年是越南好來輪值所以可不可以給我一個很具體的目標我們今年大概要做什麼方向是什麼時程是什麼預計能夠達到什麼樣的一個目標把這個部分我們簡要的做一個說明好嗎"},{"start":509.667,"end":538.099,"text":"好 很快的說明就是說我們現在還是一樣跟一樣延續去年我們希望採取一個陸會申請的新的方式那去年是我們第一次提出來對 但你第一次提出來的時候你去年有跟越南就是因為越南它還是這個會員國嘛你們有跟越南討論過嗎就在它還不是輪值主席國的時候所有的對外管束我們都有對 那我的意思是說你去年雖然它不是輪值主席國但你有跟他們交換過這樣的意見的時候對方對於這件事情的支持程度是如何的"},{"start":538.319,"end":561.792,"text":"我想他們都是在重申奧克蘭三原則,包括有良好的紀錄,有好的高品質。那今年你繼續講今年。今年的話我們就是在這個推動上面,我們希望這個陸會的現在就是說,在沒有人反對,而不是說已經大家都同意,沒有人反對的情況下,對於這些陸會申請國是不是就能夠開始成立一個陸會工作小組,這不是已經陸會了。"},{"start":563.453,"end":590.249,"text":"這個我都知道你剛剛講過因為我們時間很有限那你可不可以告訴我說這個爭取那大概會在什麼時候有眉目或是確認說今年可能沒機會我不能說今年沒有機會啦我說時程點因為你總是會有節點吧很多樣的事情是會有節點啊所以你不能定到你說年底召開年底之前的時候我們就會全力以赴那麼對於越南對於這個其他的國家我們進行遊說"},{"start":591.63,"end":616.306,"text":"那尤其是對新加入的這些國家,包括英國,包括加拿大加拿大不是最近加入,但是說這些國家有我的國家,我們會盡力盡力我最少是說,這個入會過程的這個方法是不是能夠大家同意就是在沒有會員國明確反應,反對,而且提出反對的理由的時候那麼以他們都說要再繼續"},{"start":617.647,"end":638.966,"text":"擴張CPTPP爭取更多的會員國在這個前提之下至少能夠讓我們成立陸會工作小組戰略算不上其實我都同意我也很支持因為從去年11月說有跟一個國家討論到現在那其實是一樣的所以我想要問一下就是說你們大概在今年度因為現在也已經四月了快要到下半年了"},{"start":639.446,"end":659.049,"text":"你們有什麼時候要進入到跟第二個國家進行到實質的討論我很實際我這個人很現實主義的很實際跟你討論就第二個就好了什麼時候可以進到跟第二個國家進行到實質的磋商啊那我再跟委員報告說我們全力以赴啦但是我們希望有像您所說的第二個國家有一個比較正式的"},{"start":660.39,"end":687.579,"text":"方向跟大概知道說我希望爭取哪一個做我第二個實質的國家的談判呢如果你都說大海撈針的那到年底了我要問你一樣的明年我要問你一樣的那這不就永遠遙遙無期了嗎明年一定有不一樣的做但是說就今年在爭取新的國家來支持我們喔那麼我們覺得當然說也就是這幾個國家明年不好就是說來區變喔但我們就所有的門我們都會敲那請你們繼續努力謝謝謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:22+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:24.757333+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請陳次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:24.757333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:27.514667+08:00","text":"請陳次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:27.514667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:30.272000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:30.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:45.998000+08:00","text":"今天又有出現關於是否要跟宏都拉斯復交的新聞，我想先請教一下，提到要與宏都拉斯復交，大概是從什麼時候開始進行這樣的討論？","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:47.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:04.833000+08:00","text":"從宏國去年選舉，那個時候的在野黨都提出要跟臺灣復交，這也是說從2023年與我斷交跟中華人民共和國建交以來，其實他們的產業並沒有得到提升。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:05.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:15.381000+08:00","text":"這個我們都知道，我是要問，既然他們當初做出這樣子的主張，我們也有深深的期待能夠復交，等於回復一個邦交國。是。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:16.382000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:25.231000+08:00","text":"為什麼到現在都已經4月了，我們遲遲沒有看到確實的進度，只看到新聞媒體上面不斷有相關的放話？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:25.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:26.772000+08:00","text":"不是說放話，我跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:27.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:32.858000+08:00","text":"我說放話的意思就是你們沒有具名是誰講的，我就這麼說了，好不好？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:33.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:06.021000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，雖然宏國跟中國建交時間不長，但是現在我們得到的一個訊息是，宏國並不完全了解前任政府跟中國簽下多少協議，尤其是很擔心率爾跟中國斷交、跟我們復交的話，會不會產生一些很大的……他們比較謹慎，我們也尊重，所以我們現在逐步考量，看看能不能夠得到相關訊息。好。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:06.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:20.106000+08:00","text":"外交部今天的新聞說認為他們跟臺灣復交的步驟會很謹慎，這指的是宏都拉斯方面會很謹慎，是嗎？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:20.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:29.490000+08:00","text":"宏都拉斯方面會推展得很謹慎，最主要還是擔心前任政府所留下來他們說的地雷，我們在這個事情上面當然也會跟他們開誠布公地互動。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:29.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:49.427000+08:00","text":"所以您的意思是就您目前的掌握，只要將前一任政府跟中國大陸他們所簽下的一些相關協議有了初步判斷、整理之後，他們就會遂行跟中華民國復交，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:49.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:57.309000+08:00","text":"現在還要盤點，就我們現在得到的訊息，他們請我們現在先稍安勿躁，他們會實現他們的……","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:57.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:57.830000+08:00","text":"我們會不會被騙？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:57.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:05.972000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我覺得機率不高，這是他們競選時的承諾，現在……對啊！","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:06.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:13.094000+08:00","text":"很多人競選承諾都沒做到，賴清德總統很多競選承諾也都沒做到，我們臺灣也都是這樣子。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:13.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:23.677000+08:00","text":"宏都拉斯也是有自己國家的民情，也不一定……從我們國家現實主義的利益來說，我們也不可能全然相信別人跟我們講就一定是真的吧！","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:24.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:27.378000+08:00","text":"如果總是這麼天真的話，我們的外交該怎麼樣前進呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:28.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:32.181000+08:00","text":"我們有沒有評估他們今天的這些說法有可能是拖辭？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:33.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:36.964000+08:00","text":"如果你認為不是拖辭的話，你的理由跟依據又是什麼？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:37.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:47.210000+08:00","text":"我們雙方有持續在互動溝通，同時還有很多其他的國家也在協助我們往臺、宏復交的方向前進。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:47.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:49.112000+08:00","text":"很多國家是像那些國家？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:49.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:02.881000+08:00","text":"比如我們重要的友邦美國，他們在整個國家戰略裡面提到所謂的西半球優先，針對這方面，我們在很多的時候跟美國有良好的互動溝通。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:03.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:09.866000+08:00","text":"我們也看到宏國主要的政治領導人，當他們有機會跟美國接觸的時候，我們……","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:10.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:12.768000+08:00","text":"他們現在跟中國大陸的交往如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:13.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:17.372000+08:00","text":"是有暫停掉了或者其實實際上還是交往非常密切？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:18.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:20.013000+08:00","text":"雙邊對兩岸之間的……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:20.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:24.655000+08:00","text":"就我的了解交往並沒有……我請韓司長稍微在細節上面跟委員報告。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:25.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:26.036000+08:00","text":"請說，簡單說明一下好不好？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:26.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:26.817000+08:00","text":"因為我後面還有問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"韓司長志正","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:27.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:34.521000+08:00","text":"它駐中國的大使在1月26號就跟前政府一起辭職了，到現在還沒有任命大使。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:34.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:47.771000+08:00","text":"所以目前沒有任命大使，我了解了，我們對這個事情也是有期待的，當然對方有需要謹慎的地方，我們都可以理解，但是希望我們能夠恢復一個邦交國，這對中華民國來說相當重要。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:47.771000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:48.852000+08:00","text":"我們全力以赴。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:48.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:23.376000+08:00","text":"為什麼我剛剛會提到我們對於其他國家的說法必須要很謹慎，而且要做多方面考量，主要是因為像CPTPP也是一樣，我們都知道政府在對外宣示爭取加入CPTPP這件事情，實際上在執行層面是消極、敷衍的，也沒有具體的時程跟規劃，所以我們看到卓榮泰院長3月的時候講到要針對CPTPP重新盤點，並設定目標及時間表，要由經濟部跟外交部分工推進。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:25.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:30.962000+08:00","text":"請問從那時候到現在，我們有沒有檢討到底要怎麼樣去改進？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:32.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:39.563000+08:00","text":"報告委員，針對CPTPP方面，我去年因為擔任相關的主管業務，我也拜訪了好幾個國家遊說我們的入會案。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:39.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:40.484000+08:00","text":"的確國際是有一些現實，以我們現在經貿大國來說，我也希望能夠塑造一個友我的氣氛，能夠……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:40.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:08.932000+08:00","text":"我請問一下，你看起來很積極，為什麼我們當初的經貿談判……我們就不談特別的名字了，有參與到這件事情的同仁認為是非常消極的，他的說法看起來跟你差異很大。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:10.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:33.239000+08:00","text":"我們尊重當事人的感覺，但就外交部來說是全力以赴，我去拜訪了英國、澳洲及加拿大，英國是新加入的成員，我除了傳達我們要加入的意願，同時也跟他討論我們遇到的困難，也希望從英國那邊學到如何能夠加入及要準備哪一些程序。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:33.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:43.207000+08:00","text":"你跟他學沒有用，我們的狀況差很多，去年我在這個委員會就問過部長，當時部長提到我們已經跟12個會員國裡面其中一個會員國進行實質的討論，請問目前有增加嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:52.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:03.979000+08:00","text":"是指實質討論，不只是拜會，實質討論要讓我們推進到CPTPP的部分，從去年11月的時候林佳龍部長說是一個，到現在請問增加到幾個了？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:05.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:09.462000+08:00","text":"就具體的數字，我們還在努力之中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:10.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:13.564000+08:00","text":"當初林佳龍部長可以告訴我是一個，現在為什麼不能講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:14.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:16.595000+08:00","text":"現在沒有不能講，其實我們還是一個……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:16.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:19.755000+08:00","text":"就還是一個的意思。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:20.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:23.536000+08:00","text":"現在還是遇到一個現實，因為去年的時候是澳洲擔任主席國。對。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:23.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:31.679000+08:00","text":"所以我特別去澳洲一趟，但是去年很可惜，我們有提出入會方法的新訴求。知道。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:32.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:36.220000+08:00","text":"包括能夠優先成立工作小組，可惜沒有得到採納。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:36.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:39.701000+08:00","text":"這些我知道，部長都有跟我說，我們沒有得到正面的回應。對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:41.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:01.527000+08:00","text":"現在的狀況是CPTPP每次換一個輪值主席國的時候，我們都會覺得有突破的機會，都有機會讓CPTPP的部長會議推動成立剛剛您說的臺灣入會小組，可是如果沒有成立成功的話，又變成有現實上的考量、壓力等等。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:02.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:03.228000+08:00","text":"今年我們預計的進展是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:04.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:07.209000+08:00","text":"今年的主席國是輪到越南。對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:08.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:11.191000+08:00","text":"我們跟越南有相當密切的商貿關係。對。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:11.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:15.333000+08:00","text":"我們希望在這個基礎上面，雙方能夠有好的對話。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯：你們不能每年都這樣講，因為你們每年都告訴我們","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:20.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:35.481000+08:00","text":"去年跟澳洲也很好，我們今年跟越南也很好，可是最後一整年下來是徒勞無功的，當然就會有經貿辦公室的人覺得好像是無所作為等等，但那是他的說法，我尊重他的評論。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯：你們不能每年都這樣講，因為你們每年都告訴我們","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:35.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:43.824000+08:00","text":"但今年是越南輪值，所以可不可以給我一個很具體的目標，我們今年大概要做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯：你們不能每年都這樣講，因為你們每年都告訴我們","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:43.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:45.205000+08:00","text":"方向及時程是什麼？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯：你們不能每年都這樣講，因為你們每年都告訴我們","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:45.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:46.205000+08:00","text":"預計能夠達到什麼樣的目標？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯：你們不能每年都這樣講，因為你們每年都告訴我們","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:46.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:46.565000+08:00","text":"把這部分簡要地說明好嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:51.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:52.407000+08:00","text":"好，很快地說明。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:53.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:02.251000+08:00","text":"我們現在還是一樣延續去年希望採取入會申請的新方式，去年是我們第一次提出來……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:02.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:10.535000+08:00","text":"對，你第一次提出來的時候，你去年有跟越南……因為越南是會員國，在他還不是輪值主席國的時候你們有跟越南討論過嗎？","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:10.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:12.256000+08:00","text":"我們在所有的對外館處都有一個入會工作小組。","quality":0.35},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:12.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:20.079000+08:00","text":"對，但我的意思是，雖然去年他不是輪值主席國，但你跟他們交換這樣的意見時，對方對於這件事情的支持程度是如何的？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:20.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:25.462000+08:00","text":"他們都是在重申奧克蘭三原則，或有良好的紀錄，有好的……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:26.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:27.683000+08:00","text":"好，知道了，你繼續講今年。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:28.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:43.772000+08:00","text":"今年的話，我們在推動上面希望入會的……在沒有人反對，而不是大家已經都同意，在沒有人反對的情況下，對於這些入會申請國是不是就能夠開始成立一個入會工作小組，這不是已經入會了，而是雙方能夠準備磋商。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:45.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:46.254000+08:00","text":"是、是、是，這些我都知道，你剛剛講過了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:46.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:56.320000+08:00","text":"因為我們時間很有限，你可不可以告訴我，這次爭取大概會在什麼時候有眉目，或是確認今年可能沒機會？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:56.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:57.701000+08:00","text":"我不能夠說今年沒有機會，我們外交部就是全力以赴。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:58.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:03.584000+08:00","text":"我說時程點，因為你總是會有節點吧，做任何事情是會有節點……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:03.584000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:04.584000+08:00","text":"年底召開……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:04.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:06.526000+08:00","text":"可是你不能定到……你說年底召開。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:06.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:48.215000+08:00","text":"年底之前我們會全力以赴，我們對於越南及其他的國家進行遊說，尤其是對新加入的國家包括英國、加拿大，加拿大不是最近加入，但是我們會盡力遊說這些友我的國家，針對入會過程的方法是不是大家能夠同意，就是在沒有會員國明確反對而且提出反對理由的時候，以他們都說要再繼續擴張CPTPP、爭取更多會員國的前提之下，至少能夠讓我們成立入會工作小組展開雙邊諮商。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:48.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:50.136000+08:00","text":"這些我都同意也很支持。是。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:51.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:55.461000+08:00","text":"從去年11月提到有跟一個國家討論，到現在其實是一樣的。是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:56.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:06.212000+08:00","text":"所以我想要問一下，你們大概在今年度……因為現在也已經4月快要到下半年了，你們什麼時候要跟第二個國家進入實質的討論？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:06.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:14.661000+08:00","text":"我很實際，我這個人很現實主義的，很實際跟你討論，就第二個就好了，什麼時候可以跟第二個國家進行到實質的磋商？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:15.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:21.028000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們會全力以赴，但是我們希望有像您所說的第二個國家，有一個比較正式的一個……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:22.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:26.811000+08:00","text":"你總是要有目標跟方向，大概知道希望爭取哪一個國家作為我第二個實質的國家談判。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:27.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:35.074000+08:00","text":"如果你都說大海撈針，到了年底我又問你一樣的問題，明年也問你一樣的問題，這不就永遠遙遙無期了嗎？","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:35.074000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:36.074000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:35.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:36.054000+08:00","text":"明年一定有不一樣的作法。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:37.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:47.938000+08:00","text":"今年持續在爭取新的國家來支持我們，當然也就是這幾個國家，我們也不是在曲辯，所有的門我們都會去敲。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:48.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:49.559000+08:00","text":"好，請你們繼續努力，謝謝。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳次長明祺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:49.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:49.579000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（牛委員煦庭代）","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:50.079000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:53.507571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝徐巧芯委員，次長請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（牛委員煦庭代）","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:53.807571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:56.950429+08:00","text":"下一位請馬文君召委質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}