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謝謝我們主席翁昭瑋本席今天要針對這個人權的一個評估還有調查公正性最後再針對這個公務倫理的部分來做一些詢答所以我先請我們監察院的黃秘書長跟我們人權委員會的應該今天出席的周植密"},{"start":28.32,"end":29.742,"text":"外籍家庭芳庸新制人權影響評估"},{"start":43.66,"end":66.736,"text":"在這個禮拜一 也就是4月13號這個時候行政院已經決定來針對這個外籍幫傭新制的一個上路但是包含了34個民間團體還有監察院的人權委員會本身都也公開的提出一些疑慮那麼也針對這個我們還未完成完整的一個性別跟人權影響評估之前就已經推動"},{"start":67.917,"end":92.407,"text":"這次序上是有一點點爭議的所以本席也認為制度運作要符合人權保障的一個基本要求是很重要的但對於性別族群的這個影響評估也不能說事後才補上所以更大規模的現在我們要引進的這個移工尤其是現在最近大家這個議題非常討論的非常多的這個有關印度移工但是整體的這個移工的這個部分"},{"start":93.067,"end":109.154,"text":"是勞動部的一個政策方向那本席在先前也有跟勞動部這邊針對他的移工還有援助民族勞工的一個勞權影響有沒有一些完整的評估也就是移工然後還有援助民族的這個勞工"},{"start":110.675,"end":128.669,"text":"那這樣一個結構性的改變有沒有一些衝擊本席這邊有要求做一些評估但是這個答案目前也是很模糊所以本席想要在人權跟這個人權會這邊有做一些討論你們理解這個意思嗎就是說你們現在有移工可是這個移工對整個社會的結構還有勞工的這個整體的這個系統會產生一些衝擊"},{"start":136.034,"end":163.301,"text":"那這個本席在其他委員會也問過了那這個部分也提醒你們做一些注意啦所以本席認為這個新制會影響到三個層面第一個是本國的這個基層女性勞動者的一個工作權那第二個部分是外籍家事移工長期處於勞基法之外的一個勞動條件那麼第三個部分是兒童照顧的品質跟家庭責任的分配那這個是本席剛才講的這個背景會影響的一些問題"},{"start":164.341,"end":193.084,"text":"那這些都是很敏感而且跟人權議題交織在一起的所以目前的情況是行政院已經決定上路了但是完整的人權跟性別的影響評估報告卻要後續的性評會才會提出來那這樣時序是不是有點政策先行然後評估在後所以本席要請教的尤其是人權會那人權會對於這樣政策的推動程序是不是認為符合人權治理的一個基本原則呢"},{"start":193.985,"end":216.762,"text":"那第二個部分是在面對行政權已經決定上路了那人權會未來要怎麼跟行政院來進行有建設性的一個制度對話那麼是不是會建立一些固定的政策人權審查的機制而不是被動的做一些回應那第三個部分是針對外界目前關注的這個移工人權跟對我國勞工的影響剛才本席也舉例了"},{"start":217.242,"end":244.539,"text":"例如長工時或者是缺乏勞基法的一個保障那麼工作的內容可能也會擴張到這個照顧跟育兒或排擠我國勞工剛才本集這邊已經談到了那外籍移工對原住民族勞工的一個衝擊影響那人權會是不是會提出一些具體的監督指標或追蹤的機制來確保政策上路之後不會擴大既有的問題"},{"start":246.929,"end":270.222,"text":"回應委員的質詢 剛才您提到的這幾個問題包括人權治理、建立機制跟移工的人權對本勞尤其是原住民勞工的影響我們國家人權委員會都做了很多的對外的聲明我是不是請我國家人權委員會執行秘書詳細的跟您說執秘這邊是不是可以精準的簡單做一個回應"},{"start":270.882,"end":291.488,"text":"好謝謝委員關切這個議題這個議題也是我們非常關切的幾個項目那先就剛剛您提到的就是有關4月13日要上路的這個外籍幫傭的這個新制那我們非常贊成委員所提到的因為我們的意見書裡面也是提到說這個新制第一個就是會衝擊到基層女性包括保姆還有教保人員"},{"start":292.148,"end":313.099,"text":"他們的一個工作權益那第二就是說它其實會涉及到家庭類型的移工因為過去我們已經有在相關的專案調查報告裡面提到說目前的家事移工他因為沒有適用到勞基法所以他的一些保障上面其實是有問題而且監督上是有困難的那這個都是在我們的家事移工這個專案調查報告裡面都已經有提到"},{"start":313.739,"end":335.795,"text":"第三個就是說 針對沒有辦法落實而少權益的這個保障這部分我們也非常關切所以其實我們在聲明裡面一開始我們就提到說在這個新制推行之前其實是應該要先做人權還有性別的影響評估所以它現在已經產生這樣子 已經政策先行了所以後續你們要怎麼去處理跟因應呢"},{"start":337.236,"end":352.133,"text":"謝謝 對 那後續我們大概會朝兩個方向那第一個就是說就我們自己的部分我們會持續的監督那當然有必要的時候我們會一直跟行政機關去做一些了解那相關的內容我們也會放在接下來的公約審查裡面的一些獨立評估意見裡面"},{"start":353.294,"end":381.973,"text":"那第二就是說其實照國際上面就是針對因為本來人權會它的職責角色它擁有的權利就是建議權不像監察院是有一個比較強制的這個背後的這個彈劾糾正這些權利那我們主要有的是糾正權但是大部分的國家的國家人權機構他們會跟國會合作那這也是所謂的貝爾格勒原則裡面的一個核心所以我們其實也很盼望日後跟國會建立一些平台跟交流的管道"},{"start":382.333,"end":398.963,"text":"那針對這一類的政策上的議題可以互相有一些合作然後跟一些相關後續的一些推進的一些力量本席對這個部分非常的關注因為現在已經看起來政策先行了然後如果你們只有建議權那我們又如何跟監察院的這個糾正權能夠做一些比較緊密的連結"},{"start":402.725,"end":424.607,"text":"那當然如果跟立法院之間我們當然一定會是一直來追後續在這個權益的保障上在目前的這樣一個限制下後續的一個執行方向那這可能要我們各方都非常密切而且相對主動的像剛剛翁委員這邊講就是說監察院你可能在針對某一些權益的這個部分那如何主動的因為你們是具有相關的這個糾察權嘛"},{"start":426.249,"end":452.581,"text":"那如何主動的來做那這樣一個調查報告已經提供給我們一些相關的這個資訊所以我想後續你們怎麼樣你剛才講的兩點嘛那監督的這個部分如何再更具體然後再更積極那這個有關於你建議跟糾察還有跟立法院這邊的一個合作可以怎麼樣具體的來做來補足目前政策已經先行的結果評估還沒有"},{"start":453.141,"end":467.747,"text":"很具體的狀況針對委員提到說是不是監察院這邊可不可以有糾正等這些那跟您報告國家人權會的委員他也升監察委員所以可能這個部分"},{"start":469.048,"end":497.104,"text":"他們會獨立的去判斷如果說要進入到監察院的整個的調查啦整個程序他們會進入對 因為目前就已經是政策先行了所以大家其實非常關注目前還沒有處理本來應該先評估可是沒有處理的這個部分那在後續我們不希望執行上碰到問題然後又很難去處理或者是已經後續沒有辦法在處理的一個狀況上然後我們又再做一些只是一直補正"},{"start":497.924,"end":522.221,"text":"然後就會影響到人民的一個信任所以如果正好是這樣一個角色那可能相關的這個委員就要負起一個比較更積極的一個責任但是很重要一點 本席這邊還是要再提醒那有關於外籍移工衝擊到原住民族勞動的這個部分我覺得監察院還有人權委員會要把它當成是一件主要的事情來做處理"},{"start":523.522,"end":549.654,"text":"所以這個結構性的改變勢必會有衝擊那你可能為了接下來本席要談的是另外一個議題那這個就會變成跟你可能針對比如說我們剛才講外籍移工那可能有產業的需求可是對於本土原本在我們的勞動市場裡面的一個衝擊我覺得在過去的一個這幾年的一個狀況上我們有看到其實有點準備不足就針對某一個面向的一個立場來做"},{"start":551.595,"end":579.256,"text":"規劃跟處理結果後來其實影響到本土的或是本地的這個勞動權其實影響到很大本期接下來的就是要講不過我再先補充一下啦也就是說人權會的角色那我們最好不要都是只做事後的一個檢討而是應該在制度上確保重大政策在形成的過程當中人權會的角就已經納入人權的視角所以都不要都是這個背後亡羊補牢那麼"},{"start":580.217,"end":594.29,"text":"本席這邊還是要對行政權這邊做一些這個批判啦行政權如果都可以在憑供沒有完全完成的一個情況下就進行那人權會又缺乏有效的介入機制那麼人權的保障就會變成"},{"start":595.171,"end":622.29,"text":"留於形式這點本席要請監察院更積極的一點來面對跟處理好那本席剛才講到的其實這個外籍移工對勞動市場的這個不是太全面的一個評估其實基本上可能都在產業面本席接下來要談的一個議題就是光電政策調查的公正性跟監察角色偏移的問題那這個跟本席剛才講的我們或許有對外籍移工的需求但是呢對本"},{"start":623.19,"end":652.19,"text":"這個本土的衝擊其實沒有每一個面向都考慮到這個有關這個你們監察院目前發布的一個光電調查報告這個報告的起點是外商業者來反映台灣投資環境的惡化但報告的內容引用的很多都是業界的意見甚至引入了你們最後還建議說要鬆綁農地然後要調整漁電共生的制度然後要喊請行政院還要監督各部會的一個檢討"},{"start":653.07,"end":680.264,"text":"但是報告一出來社會其實質疑這份報告聽的這個聲音其實太單方面了本席請教那麼監察院在這次的調查過程當中是否同樣的納入相當程度的數量的農民養殖戶地方居民跟環保團體的一個實際經驗還是主要是因為業者陳情那就變成你們這個資料來源或者是相關的資訊來源的"},{"start":681.425,"end":697.791,"text":"主要的一個這個連結那目前從外部的一個觀察那這個光電報告將發展的困境都歸咎在行政效率不足那麼審查有點過於嚴格但是政策本身是不是有一些問題"},{"start":699.232,"end":713.673,"text":"實際的狀況上是地方的衝突不斷那麼原因呢也不是只有審查慢而是根本的有幾個問題本席這邊提出來也就是第一個農地破碎化還有農業環境惡化第二個部分是社區的參與不足"},{"start":714.474,"end":741.868,"text":"再來還有資訊不對等那還有開發過程當中利益分配失衡跟地方的不信任那麼光電開發呢過度以取得土地為優先忽略了環境跟社會成本那這是本席認為這樣子的狀況一直反覆發生的根本問題所以請教一下你是不是認同光電爭議的核心不只是行政程序而是國土利用跟產業發展之間有結構性的衝突"},{"start":744.269,"end":773.108,"text":"那麼未來你們可不可以再提出相關的報告就這個部分更深入的分析那第二個部分是對於農地農用這一個基本原則那報告當中引用了業界的數據主張的影響其實是有一些有限啦但是學界有指出相關的數據其實有一些爭議也就是你數據的引用其實導致了一些偏頗所以甚至有低估農地流失的情形你們有沒有進一步的查證最後更關鍵的是"},{"start":774.829,"end":803.122,"text":"監察院在本案當中你們到底是在協助政策加速與背書還是在監督政策是否偏離了公眾利益那這點是很重要所以本席剛才會跟你們提醒當產業有需求但是整體的評估或許沒有到那麼全面的時候它的某一些衝擊如果沒有調查報告來顯示那其實那個隱性的衝擊跟付出的社會成本我們時常是看不到的"},{"start":803.642,"end":819.385,"text":"所以是不是可以請您就這個部分做一些回應委員是這樣您提的範圍非常廣而且我們很多都有這個所謂的新聞稿或調查相關的內容對基本上就是一個全面性的問題也就是你不會我們會後用書面跟你回覆"},{"start":819.745,"end":834.932,"text":"對不對所以本席其實從剛才到現在連貫就是說一個系統性結構性的這個變動的時候那那個影響其實相對沒有那麼的全面那沒有那麼全面其實就會有一些群體"},{"start":835.992,"end":849.688,"text":"在這個過程當中利益被失衡了有些是喪失了某一些權益所以從本席講到的外籍移工對原住民勞動的一個影響那政策先行對於人權保障的這個議題"},{"start":850.749,"end":868.389,"text":"還有此次對光電業者他雖然有人提出來可是整體的評估沒有顧及到各個面向還有不同的群體這會讓人導致那監察院你是到底為了公眾利益那還是導致到最後集體偏移到去處理"},{"start":870.03,"end":896.366,"text":"這個產業需求的這個問題是好 所以這個部分是不是您是要會後再補給我們嗎會後把剛才所有的問題一次的跟您回應這樣子用順便相似的回答而且最後這個部分做一個整理就是你們的職責不應該只是為單一產業在排除投資障礙而是要釐清制度的問題那麼糾正政策是否偏差所以這個部分不要在這個調查過程當中就因為這個"},{"start":898.807,"end":920.975,"text":"訴求的人而導致了集體偏移這是本席要特別提醒的那最後一個問題當然本席還是呼應許多委員關心的也就是監察院公務車涉及的公務倫理的這個問題所以剛才本席也聽到您對前面的委員這邊的一些回應那麼這個公務車私用到後來牽結的這個部分我想社會"},{"start":921.835,"end":942.905,"text":"就比較難接受這樣一個結果那這個牽結的部分也不具圖利或被性主觀犯意為由來做了一個牽結那本席當然尊重法律的一個判斷但是希望不是又一次司法的雙標我想這是剛剛很多委員提出來的一個重點也就是一般民眾可能在觸及一些"},{"start":944.426,"end":961.019,"text":"可能對法律上不是很了解或者是人與人之間相處的這個問題的這一些過失的同時其實可能都被重罰但是真正掌握權力應該要自律的人反倒就因此"},{"start":962.119,"end":979.13,"text":"就被討之夭夭我想這個是大家關注的一個議題所以本席在這邊強調行政的牽結不等於行為這個符合行政倫理這是本席談的重點那更不符合監察院應有的用車標準那麼"},{"start":980.216,"end":995.643,"text":"秘書長 不好意思 監察院作為國家最高的一個監察機關那麼對外要求各機關要依法行政 人身自愛那你們是不是有更高的一個標準的要求那如果針對公務生使用的不是那麼恰當"},{"start":996.483,"end":1009.698,"text":"那很多往往面臨刑責行政懲處或者是失去職務但是呢此次的這樣一個監委涉及這個寵物送寵物美容但是卻以刑事牽結的這個部分然後院內剛才我聽起來好像還要後續要有人"},{"start":1015.885,"end":1042.206,"text":"再去做一些訴求你們才會再有這樣一個調查那本席請教檢察院是不是認為本案相關的這個用車行為有符合檢察院對公務倫理的一個標準那如果不符合你們對於目前紀律處置的一個回應是如何檢察官的簽結我們都是尊重但是在我們內部這次紀律委員會所做的所謂的這個他要求道歉這個"},{"start":1043.087,"end":1068.237,"text":"因為他要求道歉以外依照紀律規則下一個層次就是彈劾了那這已經是最高了那彈劾呢依照我們過去監察院處理公務車類似公務車全國公務人公務車有被彈劾的案件一般來講都是他有刑事訴追也就是他有刑事上比如說這個背信等等這些或是貪賭的狀況才會進入到彈劾那一般來講"},{"start":1071.638,"end":1091.49,"text":"如果只是沒有進入到刑事訴追的部分我們並不會進入到彈劾所以我們對於委員他的這個部分我們是全國一致的所有的公務人員有刑事訴追我們才會彈劾沒有的話我們就下一個層次那我們的紀律委員會的規範呢下一個層次就是要求道歉這樣子"},{"start":1092.928,"end":1116.759,"text":"所以針對這個事情你們未來有沒有強一些比較強化查核機制的一個我們已經把整個的公務車使用的規定全面的修正那這個修正其實就是比照大院所有公務車的管理相關的規範一模一樣以這樣的方式來進入未來的公務車的管理的改進這樣子"},{"start":1117.699,"end":1133.153,"text":"好 所以這件事情很重要就不是只有這個有關於這個法律的一個這個處理啦而是監察院本身的一個自我要求是 我們自我要求還有內部紀律的一個標準上那不要有雙標標準是全國一致的所有的公務員也是這樣的標準"},{"start":1134.974,"end":1159.81,"text":"彈劾的部分 只要進入到彈劾的話一定是背後有刑事訴追的 譬如說他有這個是你說彈劾的層次 但是最重要就是說整個監察院讓人民在信心上因為這些事情而有了一些動搖 所以應該你們是很重要的一個維護公益的一個單位 但是呢包括本席剛才所講的 那對於某一些這個"},{"start":1161.471,"end":1167.154,"text":"謝謝委員的指教希望監察院能夠在這個部分多加改善然後應該有一些具體施程所以我會把委員的建議帶回去謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:03:23.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:03:24.133000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席翁召委。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:03:25.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:03:41.940000+08:00","text":"本席今天要針對人權的評估還有調查公正性，最後再針對公務倫理的部分做一些詢答，所以我先請監察院黃秘書長跟人權委員會今天出席的鄒執秘吧？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:03:41.940000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:03:42.940000+08:00","text":"請黃秘書長跟鄒執秘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:03:42.940000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:03:43.940000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:03:43.940000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:03:44.940000+08:00","text":"秘書長、執秘，你們好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:03:43.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:04:24.678000+08:00","text":"本席今天要跟你們請教一下外籍家庭幫傭新制人權影響評估的問題，這個禮拜一，也就是4月13號的時候，行政院已經決定要針對外籍幫傭新制的上路，但是包含了34個民間團體，還有監察院人權委員會本身都公開地提出了一些疑慮，也針對我們還未完成、完整的性別跟人權影響評估之前就已經推動，在這個次序上是有一點點爭議的。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:04:25.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:04:45.286000+08:00","text":"所以本席也認為，制度運作要符合人權保障的基本要求是很重要的，但對於性別族群的影響評估也不能說事後才補上，所以更大規模現在我們要引進的移工，尤其是最近大家對這個議題討論了非常多的印度移工。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:04:45.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:05:10.058000+08:00","text":"對於整體移工的這個部分是勞動部的政策方向，本席先前也有問勞動部針對印度移工還有原住民族勞工的勞權影響有沒有一些完整的評估，也就是移工，還有原住民族的勞工，對於這樣結構性的改變有沒有一些衝擊？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:05:10.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:05:11.519000+08:00","text":"本席這邊有要求做一些評估。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:05:12.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:05:20.546000+08:00","text":"但是答案目前也是很模糊，所以本席想要跟人權委員會做一些討論，你們理解這個意思嗎？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:05:20.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:05:23.669000+08:00","text":"就是你們現在有移工，可是移工對整個社會的結構，還有勞工的整體系統會產生一些衝擊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:05:31.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:05:35.475000+08:00","text":"這個本席在其他委員會也問過了，這個部分也提醒你們做一些注意。是。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺：本席認為這個新制會影響到三個層面","start":"2026-04-15T11:05:39.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:05:54.140000+08:00","text":"第一個是本國基層女性勞動者的工作權；第二部分是外籍家事移工長期處於勞基法之外的勞動條件；第三個部分是兒童照顧的品質跟家庭責任的分配。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺：本席認為這個新制會影響到三個層面","start":"2026-04-15T11:05:55.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:06:03.304000+08:00","text":"本席剛才講的這個背景會影響的一些問題，這些都是很敏感，而且跟人權議題交織在一起的。是。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:06:03.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:06:18.176000+08:00","text":"所以目前的情況是，行政院已經決定上路了，但是完整的人權跟性別的影響評估報告卻要後續的性平會才會提出來，這樣的話，時序是不是有點政策先行，然後評估在後？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:06:18.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:06:28.064000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教的……尤其是人權委員會，人權委員會對於這項政策的推動程序，是不是認為符合人權治理的基本原則呢？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:06:29.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:06:37.531000+08:00","text":"第二個部分是，在面對行政院已經決定上路了，人權委員會未來要怎麼跟行政院進行有建設性的制度對話？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:06:37.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:06:43.716000+08:00","text":"是不是會建立一些固定的政策人權審查機制，而不是被動地做一些回應？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:06:43.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:06:51.742000+08:00","text":"第三個部分是針對外界目前關注的移工人權跟對我國勞工的影響，剛才本席也舉例了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:06:52.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:10.493000+08:00","text":"例如長工時，或者是缺乏勞基法的保障，工作的內容可能也會擴張到照顧跟育兒或排擠我國勞工，剛才本席也已經談到了，還有外籍移工對原住民族勞工的衝擊影響。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:10.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:19.539000+08:00","text":"人權委員會是不是會提出一些具體的監督指標或追蹤的機制，來確保政策上路之後，不會擴大既有的問題？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:21.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:42.680000+08:00","text":"是，回應委員的質詢，剛才您提到的這幾個問題，包括人權治理、建立機制跟移工人權對本勞尤其是原住民勞工的影響，我們國家人權委員會都做了很多對外的聲明，我是不是請國家人權委員會執行秘書，詳細地跟你說明？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:42.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:45.882000+08:00","text":"執秘是不是可以精準、簡單做個回應，好不好？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:46.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:07:50.503000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關切這個議題，這個議題也是我們非常關切的幾個項目。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:07:51.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:08.249000+08:00","text":"先就剛剛你提到的，有關4月13日要上路的外籍幫傭新制，我們非常贊成委員所提到的，因為我們的意見書裡面也有提到這個新制，第一個就是會衝擊到基層女性，包括保母還有教保人員的工作權益。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:08.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:24.037000+08:00","text":"第二就是它其實會涉及到家庭類型的移工，因為過去我們已經在相關的專案調查報告裡面提到，目前的家事移工因為沒有適用勞基法，所以在它的一些保障上其實是有問題的，而且監督上是有困難的。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:24.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:28.079000+08:00","text":"這些在我們的家事移工專案調查報告裡面都已有提到。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:28.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:44.270000+08:00","text":"第三個就是，針對沒有辦法落實兒少權益保障的這部分，我們也非常關切，所以我們在聲明裡面一開始就有提到，在這個新制推行之前其實應該要先做人權還有性別的影響評估，這的確要先做。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:44.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:50.775000+08:00","text":"對，所以它現在已經政策先行了，所以後續你們要怎麼去處理跟因應呢？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:52.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:08:54.158000+08:00","text":"謝謝，後續我們大概會朝兩個方向。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:08:54.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:02.328000+08:00","text":"第一個就是我們自己的部分，我們會持續地監督，當然有必要的時候我們會一直跟行政機關做一些了解。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:03.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:07.113000+08:00","text":"相關的內容我們也會放在接下來公約審查裡面的獨立評估意見裡面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:08.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:21.523000+08:00","text":"第二個就是，其實照國際上面，因為本來人權委員會的職責角色，它所擁有的權力就是建議權，不像監察院背後有一個比較強制的彈劾、糾正這些權力。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"鄒執行秘書筱涵","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:22.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:44.237000+08:00","text":"我們主要有的是建議權，但是大部分國家的國家人權機構會跟國會合作，這也是所謂貝爾格勒原則裡面的一個核心，所以我們其實也很盼望日後跟國會建立一些平台跟交流的管道，針對這一類政策上的議題可以互相有一些合作跟後續相關的推進力量。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:45.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:09:53.963000+08:00","text":"本席對這個部分非常地關注，因為現在看起來已經是政策先行了，如果你們只有建議權，請問要如何與監察院的糾正權做比較緊密的連結？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:09:58.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:11.679000+08:00","text":"至於立法院這邊，後續會在目前的限制下就權益保障與執行方向做追蹤，我認為這需要各方密切且主動關注。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:12.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:18.126000+08:00","text":"誠如剛才翁委員所說，監察院在針對某些權益上如何主動？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:18.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:22.390000+08:00","text":"畢竟你們有糾察權，所以到底該如何主動來做？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:23.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:26.671000+08:00","text":"我想最好能提出調查報告，並提供我們相關資訊。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:30.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:36.696000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講到兩點，但監督這部分要如何才能更具體、更積極？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:37.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:10:48.841000+08:00","text":"至於你們的建議跟糾察，及到底該怎麼與立法院合作、可以怎麼樣的具體合作，以補足目前政策先行，但評估並不是很具體的問題？","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:10:50.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:01.227000+08:00","text":"委員提到監察院是不是可以提糾正等等，跟您報告，國家人權會的委員也身兼監察委員……","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:01.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:02.607000+08:00","text":"所以這個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:04.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:12.713000+08:00","text":"這過程他們會獨立去判斷，如果需要進入監察院調查程序的話，他們會進入。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:13.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:15.514000+08:00","text":"目前政策已經先行了……對。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:15.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:21.398000+08:00","text":"所以大家其實非常關注，畢竟目前還沒有處理，這是本來應該要先評估但目前還沒有處理的部分。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:22.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:35.106000+08:00","text":"至於後續，我不希望執行上再碰到問題，以致後續很難處理，甚或沒有辦法處理，於是只好一直補正，從而影響到人民的信任。","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:35.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:42.431000+08:00","text":"如果這樣，那麼我認為委員就更要積極負起責任。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:43.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:11:57.201000+08:00","text":"很重要一點、本席還要再提醒的是：有關外籍移工衝擊到原住民族勞動權的問題，我覺得監察院及人權委員會要當成一件主要的事來處理。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:11:59.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:01.503000+08:00","text":"這是一個結構性的改變，也勢必會有衝擊。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:02.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:05.745000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要談另外一個議題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:09.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:16.250000+08:00","text":"剛剛講到外籍移工，這是基於產業需求，可是對於原本就在勞動市場裡的本土勞工的衝擊呢？","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:17.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:22.113000+08:00","text":"從過去這幾年的狀況來看，我覺得準備其實有點不足。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:22.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:32.860000+08:00","text":"換言之，僅就某個面向來做規劃跟處理，結果影響到本土或本地的勞動權，而且影響很大。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:35.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:52.975000+08:00","text":"我先補充一下，人權會最好不要只做事後檢討，而是應該在制度上確保重大政策在形成的過程當中，已經納入人權視角，不要只有事後的亡羊補牢。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:55.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:12:58.881000+08:00","text":"本席在這邊還是要對行政權做一些批判！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:12:59.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:15.735000+08:00","text":"行政權如果可以在評估尚未完全的情況下就進行，而人權會又缺乏有效的介入機制，如此，人權保障就會流於形式，這點本席要請監察院更積極地面對與處理。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:16.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:24.341000+08:00","text":"本席剛才講到，引進外籍移工對勞動市場非全面的評估，所影響的都在產業面。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:24.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:32.226000+08:00","text":"至於本席接下來要談的議題是：光電政策調查的公正性與監察角色偏移的問題。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:32.707000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:40.672000+08:00","text":"本席剛才提到，我們或許對外籍移工有需求，但因此而對本土所造成的衝擊卻不是每一個面向都有考慮到！","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:42.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:13:52.600000+08:00","text":"日前監察院發布了光電政策調查報告，而該報告的起點是外商業者反映臺灣投資環境惡化。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:13:53.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:07.090000+08:00","text":"惟報告內容卻引用很多業界的意見，你們最後還建議要鬆綁農地，要調整漁電共生制度，要函請行政院監督並檢討各部會做法。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:08.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:15.574000+08:00","text":"報告一出來，社會質疑這份報告所聽取的聲音過於單方面！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:16.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:28.721000+08:00","text":"本席請教，監察院在這次調查過程當中，是否同樣納入相當程度數量的農民、養殖戶、地方居民與環保團體的實際經驗？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:29.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:14:39.966000+08:00","text":"抑或因為業者陳情，於是就變成你們主要的資料或資訊來源與連結？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:14:40.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:01.162000+08:00","text":"就目前的外部觀察可知，該份報告將光電發展的困境歸咎於行政效率不足，審查有點過於嚴格，至於政策本身是否有問題、地方衝突不斷等實際狀況……原因並不是只有審查慢，而是根本上有幾個問題。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:03.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:16.358000+08:00","text":"第一個，農地破碎化與農業環境惡化；第二個，社區參與不足；再來，資訊不對等，開發過程當中利益分配失衡與地方的不信任。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:17.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:29.704000+08:00","text":"還有，光電開發過程中，過度以取得土地為優先，忽略了環境與社會成本，本席認為這是狀況一直反覆發生的根本問題所在。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:29.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:36.848000+08:00","text":"所以本席請教，你是否認同光電爭議的核心不只在行政程序，而是國土利用跟產業發展之間有結構性的衝突？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:39.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:44.092000+08:00","text":"未來監察院可否在提出相關報告時，就這部分做更深入的分析？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:46.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:15:59.002000+08:00","text":"至於農地農用的基本原則，報告中引用了業界的數據，主張所造成的影響有限；但學界也指出相關數據其實有些爭議存在。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:15:59.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:07.408000+08:00","text":"也就是該數據的引用導致了偏頗，甚至低估農地的流失，請問你們有沒有進一步查證？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:07.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:19.714000+08:00","text":"更關鍵的是，監察院在本案當中到底是在協助政策的加速與背書，還是在監督政策是否偏離公眾利益？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:20.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:20.954000+08:00","text":"這點是很重要的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:21.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:38.102000+08:00","text":"本席剛才提醒你們，當產業有需求，但整體評估或許尚未那麼全面，而相關的某些衝擊若沒有調查報告來顯示，如此隱性的衝擊與付出的社會成本往往是看不到的！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:39.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:41.587000+08:00","text":"是不是請秘書長就這部分做一些回應？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:41.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:47.996000+08:00","text":"委員，您提的範圍非常廣，而且很多都有新聞稿或……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:48.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:50.459000+08:00","text":"對，但基本上這就是一個全面性的問題……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:51.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:16:53.784000+08:00","text":"可否容許我們會後以書面來答復？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:16:55.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:16.178000+08:00","text":"本席從剛才到現在的問題都是連貫的，亦即一個系統性、結構性的變動發生時，其影響相對沒有那麼全面；既然沒有那麼全面，就會有一些群體的利益在過程中失衡了，也喪失了某些權益……","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:16.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:17.760000+08:00","text":"我們會在書面上詳實回答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:17.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:39.264000+08:00","text":"剛講到外籍移工對原住民勞動權的影響，政策先行對於人權保障的議題，還有此次對光電業者……雖然有人提出，可是整體評估並未顧及各個面向與不同群體，監察院到底是為了公眾利益？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:40.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:46.331000+08:00","text":"還是最後集體偏移去處理產業的需求？是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:47.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:49.813000+08:00","text":"這個部分是不是……您是要會後再補給我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:50.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:55.476000+08:00","text":"會後一次回應委員剛才所有的問題，用書面詳實回答。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:55.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:17:57.337000+08:00","text":"本席最後就這部分做一個整理。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:17:58.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:07.824000+08:00","text":"你們的職責不應該只為單一產業來排除投資障礙，而是要釐清制度的問題，糾正政策是否偏差。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:08.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:17.728000+08:00","text":"所以不要在調查過程當中因為訴求的人而導致了集體偏移，這是本席要特別提醒的。是。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:18.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:32.233000+08:00","text":"最後一個問題本席要呼應許多委員所關心的，也就是監察院公務車所涉及的公務倫理問題，剛才本席也聽到您對前面委員提問的回應。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:32.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:46.340000+08:00","text":"對於公務車私用最後簽結的結果，我想社會是難以接受的，尤其以不具圖利或背信主觀犯意為由來做簽結。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:46.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:18:54.063000+08:00","text":"本席當然尊重法律判斷，但也希望這不是又一次的司法雙標，這是剛才很多委員提到的重點。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:18:54.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:19:20.702000+08:00","text":"一般民眾可能對法律不是很了解，在人與人相處出問題時，可能會因一些過失而被重罰，但真正掌握權力且應該要自律的人，反倒因此逃之夭夭，這是大家之所以關注這個議題的原因所在。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:19:21.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:19:33.530000+08:00","text":"本席要在這邊強調，行政簽結不等於該行為符合行政倫理，這是本席要談的重點，更不符合監察院應有的用車標準。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:19:35.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:19:46.941000+08:00","text":"秘書長，不好意思，監察院作為國家最高的監察機關，對外要求各機關依法行政，所以你們自己是不是應該有更高的標準要求？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:19:48.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:20:14.808000+08:00","text":"一般而言，若公務車的使用不是那麼恰當時，很多時候往往會面臨刑責、行政懲處甚或失去職務，但是此次監委涉及送寵物美容但卻以行政簽結的部分，院內我剛才聽起來好像還要後續有人再去做一些訴求，你們才會再調查。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:20:15.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:20:22.294000+08:00","text":"本席請教，監察院是不是認為本案相關的用車行為符合監察院對公務倫理的標準？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:20:23.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:20:27.859000+08:00","text":"如果不符合，你們對於目前紀律處置的回應是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:20:28.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:21:02.656000+08:00","text":"檢察官的簽結我們都尊重，但是在我們內部這次紀律委員會所作的要求道歉，因為要求道歉以外，依照紀律規則，下一個層次就是彈劾，這已經是最高了，彈劾依照我們過去監察院處理類似全國公務人員關於公務車有被彈劾的案件，一般來講都是他有刑事訴追，也就是他有刑事上例如背信或貪瀆等等的狀況，才會進入到彈劾。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:21:02.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:21:26.450000+08:00","text":"一般來講，如果沒有進入到刑事訴追的部分，我們並不會進入到彈劾，所以我們對於委員的部分，我們是全國一致的，所有的公務人員有刑事訴追，我們再來彈劾；沒有的話，我們就下一個層次，我們紀律委員會的規範下一個層次就是要求道歉。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:21:28.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:21:33.391000+08:00","text":"針對這個事情，你們未來有沒有一些比較強化查核機制的設計？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:21:35.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:21:51.739000+08:00","text":"我們已經把整個公務車使用的規定全面修正，這個修正其實就是比照大院所有公務車管理相關的規範，一模一樣，以這樣的方式來作為未來公務車管理的改進。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:21:53.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:00.766000+08:00","text":"這件事情很重要的不是只有法律的處理，而是監察院本身的自我要求。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:01.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:02.067000+08:00","text":"是，我們自我要求。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:02.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:05.691000+08:00","text":"內部紀律的標準上不要有雙標。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:05.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:08.133000+08:00","text":"標準是全國一致的，全國公務員也是這樣的標準。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:09.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:15.298000+08:00","text":"彈劾的部分，只要進入到彈劾的話，一定是背後有刑事訴追，例如他有貪瀆、背信等等。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:16.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:40.953000+08:00","text":"這是彈劾的層次，但是最重要的是整個監察院讓人民信心上因為這些事情而有了一些動搖，你們是很重要的一個維護公義的單位，但是包括本席剛才所講的，對於某一些案件單方面資料來源的偏頗和集體偏移，還有針對自己內部紀律的要求，我想掌握權力的人應該有更高的道德準則，希望監察院能夠在這個部分多加改善，應該有一些具體時程。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"黃秘書長適卓","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:41.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:42.154000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的指教，我會把委員的建議帶回去，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:42.654000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:46.082571+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員，現在先休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:46.382571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:47.525429+08:00","text":"休息（11時23分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:47.825429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:49.539714+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時28分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:49.839714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:50.982571+08:00","text":"繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:51.282571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:56.139714+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T11:22:56.439714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T11:22:59.296857+08:00","text":"現在請許宇甄委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}