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謝謝主席那請我們石部長還有我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的徐秘書請石部長 請徐秘書督委員好"},{"start":25.538,"end":48.912,"text":"好 謝謝部長那我這個先請教一下我們徐秘書請問一下我們台美互惠貿易協定就是ART那時候針對我們在今年針對美國農產品還有就是我們豬肾牛肉還有汽車醫藥市場針對這些開放的承諾是今年開放對不對"},{"start":50.533,"end":75.455,"text":"這一年簽訂的對不對對這個是2月簽訂的內容那包括了您剛有提到了有些部分是屬於這個關稅的部分有些是屬於非關稅措施的部分是2月12號簽訂嘛是那針對像我們美國農產品我們豬肾牛肉這些開放我們放寬萊克多巴胺放寬這個標準那在這部分我們在簽訂之前"},{"start":77.637,"end":96.956,"text":"我請問一下 那像我們衛福部 農業部知道我們有放寬這個標準嗎知道 其實我們那個談判團隊都是一起一起工作的 一起討論所以知情嘛 即使去美國談判也是相關部會也都是有代表所以就是衛福部跟農業部在我們簽訂之前大家都討論過所以都是知情的 是"},{"start":98.497,"end":113.774,"text":"那石部長也在現場嘛那所以我沒有在現場不過這個前面在前置作業上呢相關的要簽訂的內容上我們都有經過一些評估好那所以在這簽訂之前石部長也是了解我們針對"},{"start":114.935,"end":136.116,"text":"我們這個瘦肉精這個萊劑的部分我們簽訂是預計就是要再放寬嘛應該是說來follow這個國際的標準就是按照Codex的標準這樣就是比之前再放寬嘛就是按照Codex標準但是比我們之前是放寬的嘛部分的部分做調整對部分是放寬的部分調整就像我們"},{"start":137.637,"end":146.621,"text":"就是我們講豬腰的部分好像從本來的0.04ppm放寬到0.09ppm我們應該是這樣講Codex的標準還有日韓的標準都是0.09那我們目前是0.04那未來我們會進行一些專家的討論跟作業"},{"start":156.866,"end":174.54,"text":"所以後來簽訂就是知道就是要比之前還放寬啦對就是比照CODES的標準好所以這部分部長是知情的那但是我們其實我們是針對我們美國貿易障礙評估報告就是NTE"},{"start":175.18,"end":190.914,"text":"後來公布之後他在3月31號公布後來我們國人才知道這件事情所以其實簽訂的時候內容我們是並不知道的那等到美國公布這份評估報告之後後來我們才知道"},{"start":191.474,"end":210.215,"text":"原來針對這一部分像我們美國剛剛我們講的豬腎牛肉這一部分我們針對瘦肉精的部分是要放寬的我們是後來等美國這個報告出來之後我們才知情應該是在ART裡面就已經有提到了"},{"start":211.496,"end":238.763,"text":"但是我們國人知道的時候是等到美國公布我們才知道的因為事先並沒有ART風布的時候就知道就是在簽約這個下簽這個對等貿易談判的時候對對但是我是說那你們你們談判辦公室跟行政院知道但是國人是等到美國這個評估報告出來其實國人才真正知道這件事情應該不是評估報告是最近的事情是之前那個ART"},{"start":239.463,"end":255.705,"text":"在二月的時候好那部長我請問一下那我們針對這部分開放那我們在做這個開放之前我們有沒有做安全的評估報告甚至還有針對食品衛生安全還有營養的諮議會我們有開過嗎有"},{"start":258.868,"end":285.169,"text":"跟委員說明 那麼我們也比對了我們跟我們現在的相對的這個萊克多巴胺的MRL的這個訂定的標準跟日韓等國以及CODES的落差那麼這裡面的最大落差主要是在腎臟所以我們在腎臟的使用的這個安全風險的部分去年有委託這個專家在進行這個健康風險的評估跟建議容許量"},{"start":286.49,"end":312.267,"text":"所以我們今年有這個評估報告嗎去年有去年所以我們提得出這個評估報告有有有我們有評估報告但是食品衛生安全及營養這支議會沒有開專家會議的部分因為這後續要進行的程序我們現在還沒有正式修訂嘛所以未來要修訂的時候自然就要經過這個程序我希望這部分要趕快做因為其實像蔡政府時期啊她在2020年"},{"start":313.368,"end":336.614,"text":"他8月中旬有公布說要在2021年元旦也是要正式開放讓我們這個標準放寬可是那時候我們也有針對說沒有做安全評估報告這些有提出疑議所以當時他雖然前面沒有做可是後來他馬上在8月底的時候就馬上提出報告所以我們2月"},{"start":338.536,"end":350.689,"text":"簽訂然後到三月底其實公布之後國人才正式知道這個事情可是目前我們看到四月中我們這也沒有看到這安全評估報告還有專家學者這會議也沒有開"},{"start":356.229,"end":370.991,"text":"跟委員說明我們這一次其實已經提早在去年就完成這個健康風險評估的報告所以這個報告再送請給委員參考那後面的修訂的程序我們會按照法定的作業程序來進行"},{"start":371.832,"end":393.654,"text":"好 那我希望部長還有我們署長在這邊我們盡快把這個報告給我們胃膀委員會大家知道你之前做的這個評估報告還有專家學者這個食品衛生安全跟營養的諮議會也要趕快開讓民眾真正能夠了解放寬這個來劑之後對我們有沒有什麼其他的影響"},{"start":394.335,"end":421.391,"text":"因為我們要知道我們國人其實大家都知道其實像我們在萊劑他在肌肉殘留的部分沒有那麼高但是他在肝腎內臟的部分殘留是比較高的然後其實以飲食習慣來講歐美來講歐美的民眾一般他們是不吃內臟的但是我們國人的飲食習慣尤其我們婦女孕婦坐月子還有我們常常"},{"start":422.171,"end":445.8,"text":"我們國人會習慣吃一些什麼黑白切之類像我們豬肉啊還有肝啊腎啊還有什麼大腸什麼等等其實我們國人因為我們的我們自己養殖的豬我們是沒有打這個瘦肉精沒有打萊克多巴胺所以我們對於內臟的使用的部分我們包含孕婦啊坐月子等等我們都有習慣性是去吃這個內臟"},{"start":449.682,"end":456.364,"text":"那所以針對開放這部分將來這內臟你看從0.04ppm要開放到0.09ppm相對的這對於我們將來飲食習慣會常吃內臟對於我們對這安全評估報告我們希望也能夠了解因為這國人飲食習慣跟歐美是不一樣的"},{"start":472.15,"end":479.839,"text":"我們在做健康風險評估的時候 也考量了國人的飲食習慣去做的調教去年的就有這樣的參考 把肝腎都特別的著重那也考量到坐月子的時候的婦女的食用量去做的評估"},{"start":492.092,"end":514.738,"text":"第二個呢那我們當然除了我們自己的標準我們也會對照其他國家像日韓跟我們飲食習慣比較相近的那他們的標準也是按照CODES所以我們希望這安全評估報告一定要加入國人針對這內臟的飲食習慣這部分一定要加入因為這確實我們跟我們飲食習慣是不一樣的好的 好"},{"start":515.558,"end":533.633,"text":"那還有針對美國貿易障礙報告我們看到它針對我們跟台灣比較有關係的重點剛剛我也有聽到其他委員也有在質疑現在我們這標準放寬之後我們以後針對這茶廠還有邊境這茶宴的部分"},{"start":534.734,"end":552.786,"text":"是不是應該更嚴格因為我們現在把標準放寬我們也擔心標準放寬你說0.01 0.04 0.09ppm但是你沒有去查驗我們擔心他甚至是超過甚至是更高的照來講現在放寬應該要查驗的更嚴格才對"},{"start":553.466,"end":568.951,"text":"根本說明我們從源頭就管理就源頭就包含要系統性查核那麼同時呢也有查場的機制所以源頭的部分會把關那邊境的話我們也會有這個抽驗那如果有抽到我們還會提升這個抽驗的批次"},{"start":569.491,"end":587.271,"text":"那另外在後市場的部分也嚴格的會做好這個標示產地的標示所以不論是散裝包裝或者是飲食場所都要明確的標示所使用的原產地所以這個我們都會把關所以其實今天為什麼會提出來其實我們看到"},{"start":587.952,"end":611.637,"text":"美國公布的這障礙報告針對涉台的重點我們看他針對美豬的部分看他寫台無正當理由下不對處理美豬台業者反覆稽查降低採購意願所以他在講他怕降低採購意願所以變成你沒有正當理由你不能反覆去抽查也就是說"},{"start":612.597,"end":637.399,"text":"你不能沒有理由你就去查驗可是我們的標準就是我就是要不斷的抽驗啊我不能等到發生問題之後有狀況發生我們才去查驗所以針對這個涉台重點好像跟部長講的好像不太一樣變成說你要去查驗要有理由那我們的標準是我就是要不斷的查驗尤其開放之後我標準要更高我查驗要更嚴格才對啊"},{"start":637.979,"end":660.856,"text":"跟委員說明我們在邊境的查驗都是採風險極速的風就是你長期都沒有查到有問題的他就降低查驗的批次那但是如果你被驗到有問題的就會提升抽驗的批次所以在有限的人力之下我們採風險查驗抽驗的方式在進行邊境的把關所以這個標準不會改變"},{"start":662.938,"end":677.692,"text":"好我希望部長因為我們看到他公布的其實我們是有餘力我剛講的是美豬你看他對美牛台阿特承諾解除特定美牛產口美牛產品進口禁令取消繁瑣"},{"start":678.953,"end":695.323,"text":"輸入口岸檢疫程序你看喔他針對美牛這個進口禁令他說叫我們要取消繁瑣輸入口岸檢這個檢疫的程序變成說他在要求我們不能"},{"start":696.445,"end":716.947,"text":"查驗這麼嚴格應該是這個有關美牛的部分是有另外一個議題他不是這個殘留量主要是這個BSE也就是我們常講的這個狂牛症那麼過去的BSE這個美國被這個在2013年的時候是被歸類在"},{"start":718.448,"end":739.16,"text":"風險可控制的國家啦所以我們有一些是禁止他進來可是他後來已經被改列為這個風險可忽略就是最安全等級按照這個WOLF的就是世界動物這個健康組織的規範呢他是全牛都可以進來所以他已經被改列了我們沒有這個與時的調整再加上這個"},{"start":742.822,"end":754.129,"text":"2023年的時候也重新定義了這個BSE分為只有典型的BSE才是風險物所以我們要根據它去做調整它指的是說我們沒有與時俱進的這個風險調整部長沒關係 其實喔"},{"start":757.851,"end":776.084,"text":"我就講說針對其實我們看到他這個報告涉台重點對於我們來講要嚴格查驗可是針對他的報告其實看起來是要我們放寬而且還告訴我們說沒有正當理由你就不能去查然後也不能那麼繁瑣要取消繁瑣"},{"start":776.844,"end":789.833,"text":"所以這跟我們講的茶廠跟邊境茶葉我們說放寬標準應該要更嚴格可是看起來他要求是我們要更寬鬆所以我希望部長還是要針對我們的食安防線現在我們這個標準你說因為對於美國關稅的問題去做這個談判的協議我們放寬可是我覺得國安這個食安的防線我們還是要堅守我們的最底線因為這個食品食安的問題"},{"start":805.263,"end":833.058,"text":"還是希望我們衛福部能夠堅守是食安跟健康的把關我們會堅守對啊因為我們看這報告好像跟部長講的好像不太一樣但是我希望我們還是要嚴格查驗這個食安的問題沒有繁瑣的問題只有標準我們雖然標準放寬可是我們查驗一定要更加的嚴格還有我們針對牛脂牛血這半成品"},{"start":834.161,"end":853.767,"text":"那他這個這部分他的來機的部分有查驗嗎他有數據嗎這個主要是做飼料這個不是進入所以他沒有針對他的來機的殘留的標準沒有數據沒有查驗沒有他是進入到飼料進入飼料但是他進來是半成品嘛半成品然後後來進來乾燥做飼料對不對"},{"start":860.501,"end":876.494,"text":"應該是沒有進來過目前美方沒有對我說將來這個牛脂牛血進來是要做飼料是嗎對做飼料做飼料做飼料它是不是用乾燥的方式來說明一下跟委員會"},{"start":878.018,"end":899.591,"text":"是,跟委員報告,如果是牛油脂進來的話,它是精煉過後的產品,那就是作為飼料的部分的原料,那血粉的話,它就是已經噴霧乾燥之後的,也是作為飼料添加的一部分?對啊,就是到化製廠做成肉骨粉或者血粉添加,然後給豬吃嘛,做成飼料給豬吃嘛。"},{"start":900.982,"end":919.773,"text":"我們在國內的話那個飼料管理法有規定就是它在這個反除動物化是不能夠使用的所以不會有BSE傳播的風險我們現在擔心的就是我們我們國內養豬是不是不能添加瘦肉精不能添加萊劑對不對我們這個國內養豬是嚴格的標準因為其實我們國內剛剛有講國內國人的飲食習慣因為內臟這些我們都會吃所以這個就是我們"},{"start":930.379,"end":957.188,"text":"台灣豬為什麼溫體豬大家國人可以安心食用因為我們的養殖辦法我們養殖的方式我們不去添加這些瘦肉精等等所以我們內臟都可以食用可是我們現在擔心的是你牛脂牛血將來做飼料它乾燥我們乾燥之後把這些水分去掉之後其實它乾燥之後它的來劑的比例是會增加的"},{"start":958.424,"end":982.225,"text":"那如果給豬吃我們有沒有這個數據豬吃這個飼料之後會不會殘留在我們台灣豬的體內跟委員報告依據我們這個飼料管理法的規定如果是這個反芻動物跟豬的話都是不能用這些肉骨粉、血粉作為飼料的原料的所以剛剛委員考量的這些品項是不會進到豬的飼料鏈的"},{"start":984.887,"end":1011.125,"text":"這些也不能給豬吃嘛好我希望這部分一定要注意因為你做成飼料之後我們一定要嚴格把關我怕做成飼料之後那會不會礙於成本等等的問題他拿出給豬吃那豬吃了含有這個萊劑的這些飼料會被殘留在豬的體內變成本來豬沒有打瘦肉精結果他因為吃了飼料以後反而殘留在體內"},{"start":1013.328,"end":1026.057,"text":"所以這部分我如果說豬不能吃我希望我們衛福部還有我們主管單位這部分一定要嚴格來把關因為我們現在也擔心你看我們現在台灣豬農其實真的很擔心我們現在因為關稅的問題我們開放開放他進口"},{"start":1031.081,"end":1049.112,"text":"那其實為什麼要打這個瘦肉精打瘦肉精其實每頭豬的成本可以減5%到10%可以省下來這個成本那我們美國他打這個瘦肉精的豬本來成本就比我們便宜再加上我們要取消99%的關稅的減免那以後台灣豬農要何去何從"},{"start":1054.375,"end":1057.536,"text":"你們有沒有顧慮到我們臺灣豬農本來他又要顧環保又要顧飼料成本他成本會提個更高結果美國豬他打瘦肉精養的本來他的成本就很低又減低他的關稅以後這對臺灣豬農的衝擊我們有沒有考量過跟委員報告就是說在"},{"start":1075.721,"end":1098.651,"text":"這個豬肉的部分國人還是習慣食用這個國產豬啦所以進口的這個豬肉的呢只佔我們全部的大概8%而已那其中又來自於美國豬的比例又更低所以美國的豬肉只佔整個進口豬的大概一點多個%所以其實是很低啦 是很低啦"},{"start":1099.211,"end":1121.023,"text":"所以對於過去這幾年我們都密切的在關注國人的飲食還是習慣是國產豬進口豬的影響不大好 所以我們還是要堅守我們這個豬肉的產地這個標示不管你是散裝等等一定要嚴格這個豬肉產地的標示過去我們不斷的在稽查"},{"start":1121.723,"end":1143.393,"text":"不論是散裝包裝或飲食場所都要明確標示原產地好所以剛剛部長你也講到一個重點因為我們吃台灣豬台灣豬溫體豬因為他沒有打萊劑所以我們安心使用所以我剛剛就講我們真的是擔心說到時候他又吃到了這飼料還有萊劑把我們整個台灣豬這個"},{"start":1144.994,"end":1169.956,"text":"這個政治標記又把它毀掉到時候萬一我們台灣豬結果又驗出裡面又有萊劑結果它成本又高那美國豬進來成本又低到時候對他們來講是雪上加霜所以這個部分不單是食安的問題還有我們台灣豬農這個權益我們要如何照顧我們的豬農也希望我們這一部分一定要嚴格把關所以針對剛剛講我們之前"},{"start":1172.458,"end":1177.961,"text":"我們針對萊劑這個風險評估報告那部長說有做針對國人我們飲食習慣這報告盡快提供給我們還有這專家學者的針對他們食品安全衛生營養的諮議會趕快開還有我們針對我們剩下剛剛我們講的針對"},{"start":1195.269,"end":1218.159,"text":"萊豬的部分還有牛的部分一定都要跟我們嚴格把關產地的部分一定要標示清楚還有絕對不能讓我們台灣豬去吃到含有萊劑用牛脂牛血的這樣乾燥的飼料讓我們萊豬去吃到一定要嚴格把關好 完全同意這個委員的看法我們會來執行好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝童訊局委員的質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}