{"error":false,"id":["168588"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168588,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168588","日期":"2026-04-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-23-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-15T12:41:06+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-15T12:46:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:21","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ec77822e2e6eae39bb8fce4b1ff028cba64134b0f452f2ee6b800412f8d870b6b1af878bc708cb15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"12:41:06 - 12:46:27","會議時間":"2026-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長陳世凱、經濟部次長、國家發展委員會副主任委員及農業部就「因應中東情勢，國際油價飆升對於我國陸海空運輸之衝擊評估與因應策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【4月15日及16日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":4.283468750000001,"end":6.544718750000001,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":6.679718750000001,"end":7.16909375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":7.472843750000001,"end":8.265968750000003,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":12.771593750000001,"end":12.974093750000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":12.974093750000002,"end":26.00159375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":26.23784375,"end":41.76284375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":42.40409375,"end":46.150343750000005,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":46.791593750000004,"end":60.713468750000004,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":61.15221875,"end":62.51909375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":63.31221875000001,"end":114.39284375000001,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":115.08471875000001,"end":121.48034375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":122.18909375000001,"end":158.65596875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":158.97659375,"end":172.74659375000002,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":173.30346875,"end":180.39096875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":180.79596875000001,"end":186.02721875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":186.44909375,"end":192.70971875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":192.84471875,"end":221.22846875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":209.48346875000001,"end":209.83784375000002,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":221.46471875,"end":260.32784375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":237.29346875000002,"end":237.64784375000002,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":260.44596875,"end":315.23909375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":291.51284375,"end":291.86721875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":315.40784375000004,"end":320.33534375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員楚茵","start":320.48721875,"end":321.22971875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳部長世凱","start":321.22971875,"end":321.97221875,"speaker_score":0.95}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.839,"end":6.8,"text":"謝謝主席 有請交通部部長請陳部長"},{"start":13.213,"end":41.469,"text":"委員好部長好 耽誤大家用餐的時間其實這個題目我在國防外交委員會曾經質詢過退府會那就是在新興跟大南客運當中出現了中國的海思晶片而且它是用一個塗抹的方式我想部長非常清楚就是在我們的這個所謂公共客運被列為基礎建設那麼絕對是不可以有中國的系統在裡面而當時我發現的是說這個所謂的吹哨者"},{"start":42.469,"end":61.974,"text":"他所給我的資料是他企圖用塗銷的方式以至於這個中國的海思晶片就被植入在星星跟大南科運當中那麼現在我們都知道這個完全是不符合當初所簽下的切結書那麼這一家"},{"start":63.394,"end":79.569,"text":"新興承包新興跟燙男客運的這個創意他使用的是誠意的系統當時切傑叔清清明明白白的說這個絕對就是不會有中國製的晶片那麼我不知道這個訊息現在"},{"start":81.491,"end":93.08,"text":"交通部是不是知道了因為我們電動大客車其實有兩個審查的主管機關交通部負責的是車輛安全經法規的部分然後當然我知道經濟部的產發署會負責國有化跟技術"},{"start":97.023,"end":120.729,"text":"但是在這樣的一個環節當中到底出現了什麼樣的問題呢再來是當我踢爆這個事情之後我要強調的是我相信這一家創意他使用誠意的系統絕對應該不會只做星星跟大男他們的生意吧那麼言下之意是其他的客運當中有沒有這個"},{"start":122.31,"end":129.297,"text":"企圖利用塗抹消去的方式讓這個海思晶片能夠植入其中他的問題不只是我所講的這個間諜車啊然後因為他是環景系統他走在路上開他會把所有我們的車景放棄重點是他直接就違反了當初切結書的規定嘛"},{"start":143.59,"end":156.79,"text":"就是不可以有中國的晶片跟系統那麼現在我把這個事情攤開來我想要了解的是交通部在廠商如果提交不實資料的時候他把補助領走了現在該怎麼辦"},{"start":159.534,"end":172.627,"text":"首先第一個因為時間有限我想問的是交通部是不是可以去徹查這個所謂創意跟他使用的誠意的系統除了新興大南客運新興跟大南客運之外還有沒有"},{"start":174.269,"end":191.323,"text":"別的客運業者也是同樣的方式離貓換太子啊偷天換日那再來就是我們都知道大客車是有所謂的補助那麼這會不會涉及到補助上面在這個所謂其他違法違規的部分來 部長"},{"start":192.984,"end":220.616,"text":"感謝委員的關心您所關心的這個議題因為前幾天媒體也都有報導所以我們交通部也都有關注到這個議題那幾個部分 一個部分是說針對它的晶片是否是國產是否是中國製的部分我們的查核的部分我們已經喊請經濟部因為不要兩個部都去調查了請經濟部去幫我們調查這個部分那目前他們也正在做那您剛剛有提到就是說針對如果有違規的廠商沒有照我們當時的規範跟規定下去做的話我們當然"},{"start":222.136,"end":236.604,"text":"當時給的補助必須要追回來那後續就不會有補助那不過這個部分還需要經過查核我們還會經過查核那我剛剛講的說除了經濟部的查核之外我們自己也請我們的車案中心去查明他的車的規格是不是有問題"},{"start":237.785,"end":260.055,"text":"那這個部分我們也會來做這方面的查核而且針對未來啦您在關心的包含說剛剛也有其他委員關心到我們未來機場的這個車子會不會受到影響目前我們的契約裡面有明定那現在有這個案子出來未來在他要交車或者要落實我們的這個契約的時候我們會認真查核內容有沒有違規如果有違規我們一定不接受"},{"start":260.455,"end":267.583,"text":"好那我們現在知道就是交通部113年所核定的補助一共是購置創意是299輛那已經撥了6億5273萬多元那114年呢還有197輛但還沒有撥款這個部分我就希望你們能夠謹慎"},{"start":281.078,"end":285.182,"text":"我不知道這個數字對不對因為這個是我發文之後你們所提供的但是不論如何這個經費喔出來是很驚人的喔這個也是人民的這個所謂納稅錢再來是他用這種所謂偷天換日 狸貓換太子的方式如果今天我沒有踢爆"},{"start":301.516,"end":320.553,"text":"他可是拿了我們的補助然後又讓中國晶片暢行無阻這中間是不是有人謀不章或不法的部分我也希望交通部跟經濟部可以合作然後把這樣的事情把它查清楚好嗎好 我們一定會查清楚這件事情我們不能接受如果沒有符合我們的規定我們一定會追回來好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:10.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:12.780000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請交通部部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:12.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:12.800000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:19.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:19.333000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:19.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:19.573000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:19.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:22.395000+08:00","text":"耽誤大家用餐的時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:22.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:34.762000+08:00","text":"其實這個題目我在國防外交委員會曾經質詢過退輔會，就是在欣欣跟大南客運當中出現了中國的海思晶片，而且它是用一個塗抹的方式。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:35.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:41:43.346000+08:00","text":"我想部長非常清楚，就是在我們所謂公共客運被列為基礎建設，絕對是不可以有中國的系統在裡面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:41:44.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:42:00.312000+08:00","text":"而當時我發現的是，這個所謂的吹哨者他所給我的資料是他企圖用塗銷的方式，以至於中國的海思晶片就被植入在欣欣跟大南客運當中。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:42:01.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:42:07.254000+08:00","text":"現在我們都知道這個完全是不符合當初所簽下的切結書。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:42:10.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:42:24.028000+08:00","text":"承包欣欣跟大南客運的創奕使用的是誠益的系統，當時切結書清清楚楚、明明白白地說這個絕對不會有中國製的晶片。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:42:25.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:42:28.552000+08:00","text":"我不知道這個訊息現在交通部是不是知道了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:42:28.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:42:39.080000+08:00","text":"因為我們電動大客車其實有兩個審查的主管機關，交通部負責的是車輛安全及法規的部分，我知道經濟部的產發署會負責國有化跟技術。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:42:43.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:42:47.664000+08:00","text":"但是在這樣的一個環節當中，到底出現了什麼樣的問題呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:42:48.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:43:01.988000+08:00","text":"再來是，當我踢爆這個事情之後，我要強調的是，我相信這一家創奕他使用誠益的系統，應該不會只做欣欣跟大南他們的生意吧？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:43:02.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:43:12.254000+08:00","text":"那麼言下之意是，其他的客運當中有沒有這個企圖利用塗抹、消去的方式，讓海思晶片能夠植入其中？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:43:12.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:43:14.076000+08:00","text":"他的問題不只是我所講的間諜車，因為它是環景系統，它走在路上，會把所有我們的車景放進去。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:43:14.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:43:15.277000+08:00","text":"重點是他直接就違反了當初切結書的規定嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:43:29.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:43:33.055000+08:00","text":"就是不可以有中國的晶片跟系統。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:43:33.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:43:42.790000+08:00","text":"現在我把這個事情攤開來，我想要了解的是，交通部在廠商如果提交不實資料的時候，他把補助領走了，現在該怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:43:46.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:06.054000+08:00","text":"因為時間有限，首先第一個我想問的是，交通部是不是可以去徹查這個所謂創奕跟他使用的誠益系統，除了欣欣跟大南客運之外，還有沒有別的客運業者也是同樣的方式狸貓換太子、偷天換日？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:07.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:17.283000+08:00","text":"再來就是，我們都知道大客車是有所謂的補助，這會不會涉及到補助上面所謂其他違法、違規的部分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:17.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:17.323000+08:00","text":"來，部長！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:18.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:19.724000+08:00","text":"感謝委員的關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:20.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:25.527000+08:00","text":"您所關心的這個議題因為前幾天媒體也都有報導，所以我們交通部也都有關注到這個議題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:25.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:38.612000+08:00","text":"有幾個部分跟委員說明，一個部分是說，針對他的晶片是否是國產、是否是中國製的部分，因為不要兩個部都去調查，我們已經函請經濟部去幫我們調查這個部分，目前他們也正在做。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:39.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:44:53.619000+08:00","text":"您剛剛有提到，就是如果有違規的廠商沒有照我們當時的規範跟規定下去做的話，我們當然當時給的補助必須要追回來，那後續就不會有補助，不過這個部分還需要經過查核。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:44:54.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:06.026000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講，除了經濟部的查核之外，我們自己也請我們的車安中心去查明他車的規格是不是有問題，這個部分我們也會來做這方面的查核。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:07.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:14.090000+08:00","text":"另外，您所關心的，剛剛也有其他委員關心到，我們未來機場的車子會不會受到影響？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:14.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:15.470000+08:00","text":"目前我們的契約裡面有明定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:16.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:24.794000+08:00","text":"那現在有這個案子出來，未來在他要交車或要落實我們的契約的時候，我們會認真查核內容有沒有違規。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:24.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:26.455000+08:00","text":"如果有違規，我們一定不接受。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:27.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:33.002000+08:00","text":"我們現在知道交通部113年所核定的補助一共是：購置創奕是299輛，已經撥了六億五千兩百七十三萬多元；114年還有197輛，但還沒有撥款。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:33.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:47.799000+08:00","text":"這個部分我就希望你們能夠謹慎，我不知道這個數字對不對，因為這個是我發文之後你們所提供的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:47.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:48.119000+08:00","text":"但是不論如何，這個經費出來是很驚人的哦！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:48.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:45:48.419000+08:00","text":"這個也是人民的納稅錢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:45:48.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:20.868000+08:00","text":"再來是他用這種所謂偷天換日、狸貓換太子的方式，如果今天我沒有踢爆，他可是拿了我們的補助，然後又讓中國晶片暢行無阻，這中間是不是有人謀不臧或不法的部分，我也希望交通部跟經濟部可以合作，然後把這樣的事情查清楚好嗎？","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:20.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:22.489000+08:00","text":"好，我們一定會查清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:22.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:23.991000+08:00","text":"這件事情我們不能接受。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:24.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:26.533000+08:00","text":"如果沒有符合我們的規定，我們一定會追回來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:26.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:26.553000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長世凱","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:27.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:28.195857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:28.495857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:31.353000+08:00","text":"好，非常感謝林楚茵委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:31.653000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:35.367286+08:00","text":"接下來游顥、游顥，游顥委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:35.667286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:38.238714+08:00","text":"第一，報告及詢答完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:38.538714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:46.253000+08:00","text":"另外，委員洪毓祥、李柏毅、游顥所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T12:46:46.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T12:46:58.267286+08:00","text":"另委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復的部分，請交通部及相關機關儘速以書面答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}