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徐殖密委員好"},{"start":30.458,"end":58.765,"text":"我想今天開宗明義還是要強調這個對外溝通談判大家都希望努力但是我們是務實不務虛那本席不知道說之前因為你也在這一個我們之前嚴慧心副代表那也在這個辦公室裡面已經很長一段時間本席想要先救教一下因為本席有看到一個新聞到底現在外界講說這個霸凌的源頭是直指是現在的一個我們的總代表楊真理啊"},{"start":59.545,"end":72.581,"text":"那2024年 嚴慧心報到的時候那有沒有發生過被我們的代表咆哮的事情是不是可以說明一下有沒有看到這個新聞"},{"start":73.895,"end":96.638,"text":"我有看到 有沒有看到嚴嘉仁講這個是嚴嘉仁所講嘛而且講說當時是有一位徐姓執密帶我們的嚴惠心副代表去他的辦公室坐那之後被楊真妮知道之後爆笑如雷然後之後要求他先出來然後事後特別提到說還跟徐姓執密直接逃銷"},{"start":98.78,"end":127.643,"text":"我們有幾位徐姓執密向委員報告那個裡面講的徐姓執密書應該就是我我們只有一位徐姓執密對 是的那這件事情在這個調查報告裡面在調查的過程當中我都已經有向這個外部委員有說明那如果允許的話我可以在這邊再公開的再說一次我對這個事情完全沒有印象"},{"start":128.143,"end":157.29,"text":"你對這個事情完全沒有印象所以報導裡面指出是說該殖密受楊真尼咆哮責罵你沒有印象是我沒有印象那有沒有在你這個同事的過程裡面到底有沒有看到我們經貿辦公室有霸凌的事件或是感覺到有霸凌的氛圍因為其實本席在未還委員會我覺得最重要的就是我們之前討論勞動部的霸凌事件我們討論相關霸凌事件其實目的只有一個"},{"start":158.05,"end":184.469,"text":"就是我們不希望有任何人用權勢霸凌來造成公務體系公務部門的不對等然後進一步的有人受到傷害但確實現在顏惠心女士她已經離世當然她離世的真的直接理由是不是跟霸凌有關要等調查報告但我想問的是到經貿辦公室他的遺書裡面寫的就是執行層面充滿消極敷衍的態度你有沒有感受到"},{"start":186.244,"end":196.925,"text":"像委員報告我個人是完全沒有感受到所以你覺得經貿辦公室是一個和樂歡樂充滿朝氣那嚴慧心的遺書裡面寫的都不是事實"},{"start":198.893,"end":225.689,"text":"我覺得在那個嚴副總在裡面所提到的就是像他講的CPTPP沒有實成沒有計畫CPTPP的部分我完全沒有聽到他有這樣的那樣的陳述然後在至於編制化的部分這個部分是我跟他一直有在討論過然後也都有努力過那只是因為後來因為對美談判比較密集那所以這個部分有點耽擱但是"},{"start":226.71,"end":244.346,"text":"院裡面也是有給我們六位編制內的人員徐志敏我不知道你是誰的人啊公部門有些時候會看說是誰的人啊但我覺得如果說今天已經一位副代表副總代表離世然後副總代表他是被媒體預稱說他是曾經服務過兩位總統來協助談判溝通"},{"start":247.851,"end":273.165,"text":"結果到目前為止這樣子然後你今天這樣講的好像是他的遺書裡面寫的都不是事實我不知道說你這樣子沒關係你有你的立場但現在調查還在進行當中嘛但本席現在在講的是說其實就是一個很重要的部分到底經貿辦公室過去到現在有沒有讓國人覺得說我明明有打CPTPP結果原來大白話是裡面根本沒有相關的一個計畫跟節奏"},{"start":274.446,"end":300.894,"text":"然後現在楊珍妮總代表我們不管是經濟委員會有邀請過吧今天也沒有來那我不知道說她還可以躲到什麼時候有關CPTPP的部分其實政府的內部都有討論然後相關的部會相關的單位其實都有在分工史無對證嗎所以說她的遺書裡面寫的不是事實也都有在這個史無對證也都有在進行當中"},{"start":301.874,"end":308.143,"text":"他沒有辦法再為自己發聲所以他遺書不是事實那如果說這樣的話我請教行政院長為什麼要重啟調查如果說照你這樣講金茂辦公室 和樂 龍恰"},{"start":314.943,"end":342.06,"text":"那行政院長為什麼第一時間還要重啟調查向委員報告有關於調查的事情那這次都是由外部委員在進行調查當中那本院的立場 院裡的立場就是說相關的進度以及調查的方式都是由外部委員來進行跳針式的回答就不用再繼續了對 因為您剛剛那我針對我個人所以就我個人知道的部分來回答你剛已經回答了嗎來請我們石部長好不好"},{"start":348.328,"end":369.387,"text":"來部長 簡單兩分鐘跟你請教因為剛剛我本席很重視這所謂的食安三十五條那源頭管理的部分因為食安法三十五條明確規定給主管機關可以有食安一律的時候源頭管理去做查場那你先講到是說去年三月有針對我們今年要開放的牛血牛脂等相關的部分進行查場"},{"start":370.918,"end":390.071,"text":"美牛的細節我請署長來說明因為我們現在要很明確的了解是說你們查了因為剛剛我覺得世報委員就是本席也想追問的就是說如果說真的ART通過之後我們什麼時候要去做查詳因為現在要開放的是美牛以及牛隻的副產品包括牛血牛脂等相關嘛"},{"start":391.306,"end":406.846,"text":"去年有查場到這個部分牛脂跟牛血它是要做飼料的是跟人食用是沒有關係的第一件說明第二件是去年三月份的時候我們其實已經出去去查場那去年三月的時候查是查什麼樣的一個"},{"start":407.106,"end":433.192,"text":"還有特別是美牛相關這個議題裡面在ART裡面有提到的一些相關議題那我們就針對那個議題高風險的部位的那我們就進行場的查去了一個禮拜查了四個場來我請教您是我是食藥署署長我是江署長江署長我們什麼時候關稅美國才跟我們做談判我們什麼時候是去年四月啊"},{"start":434.544,"end":456.957,"text":"川普總統是去年四月才提出說全球關稅提高百分之三十然後之後才開始一個國家一個國家過來做談判結果我們的食藥署超前部署去年三月就先去做針對這些開放的部分先做茶場那你們是已經打了 吃了聖駝鐵了是已經知道說要開放了是不是跟委員報告一下"},{"start":458.118,"end":481.434,"text":"因為每一年 你剛剛時序講的不對喔有相關的所謂National NTE但是你剛剛有沒有提到是說為了這一次ART去做茶廠這是你剛剛提到的喔為了這個相關的議題就是歷年來所謂NTE裡面就是為了相關的議題但是過去到現在我們有沒有討論過要開放美牛進一步美牛的相關副產品或是美牛更擴大開放其實並沒有"},{"start":482.648,"end":510.667,"text":"是因為這一次美國總統川普4月之後搞出了一個32%叫全世界大家來談所以我們的經貿辦公室我們的談判代表才去談所以才講是說談到了一個ART而迫於無奈因為我們從32%要調上成20%我們迫於無奈我們要跟日本韓國所以我們必須要開放美牛進一步更大擴大開放但你現在講到一個大白話是原來去年3月我們就在做超前部署啦"},{"start":511.007,"end":536.443,"text":"跟委員報告政府什麼時候做超前部署不是在做管控食安反而在做開放美牛超前部署跟委員報告歷年來的NTE你們對於美牛的議題其實長期都是重要的不覺得非常荒謬嗎所以在這個議題上面我們一直都持續的在做我們的是啊那你如果說沒有打算要開放的話你為什麼要去查一些還沒有開放的地方跟委員說來部長我覺得這一件事情喔"},{"start":538.255,"end":557.24,"text":"國人都在看因為現在感覺是全面失守當初怎麼樣罵美牛民進黨政府在野獸怎麼樣罵美牛講那是毒牛然後2021年要開放進口到現在因為ART你居然跟我們講是說沒有辦法因為我們要競爭力我們要什麼的"},{"start":558.22,"end":571.71,"text":"有沒有即視感啊那個時候要進口什麼美牛美豬說CPTPP CPTPP如果沒有進口的話會不對等不公平沒有辦法加入四年過去了在哪裡"},{"start":572.993,"end":600.755,"text":"跟委員說明那你現在又在一個超前部署應該是這樣講這個美牛的議題一直在進行當中因為呢這個世界動物健康組織重新發布對BSE的風險管控標準不同所以才需要一直在討論這個議題本席認為喔你們現在說一個謊話一百個謊來很難啦來兩個部分給本席一下去年三月你們去茶廠"},{"start":601.576,"end":618.774,"text":"的一個內容報告這可以提供吧那還有請剛剛本席一樣要求就跟賴世保委員一樣就是說如果說假設未來因為ART現在還沒有送進立法院那ART到底要不要我們現在馬上急著簽因為這一次美國從2月24號的關稅到現在"},{"start":622.518,"end":635.567,"text":"也一些國家也都還沒有去簽訂也因此如果說150天之後美國政府也要通過國會授權才能延長那我們有沒有解簽但是送進立法院未來如果說真的有確認相關的話農業部"},{"start":638.221,"end":667.401,"text":"衛福部一定要在生效之後即刻啟動查場這樣可以嗎應該是有新申請項目進來因為雖然有開放不見的有申請有申請的我們才會查有申請就一定要查是不是好那請提供相關資料謝謝另外一個委員補充就是去年3月份其實我們是美國每年都有例行性的查場你剛剛已經講了你來要不要回放一下為了ART所以說去年3月有最相關的查場"},{"start":668.802,"end":677.233,"text":"所以剛剛賴世保委員在質詢的時候才會問說你們要不要新做茶廠你剛剛還先搪塞講說已經去年查過了去年查過了不用"},{"start":680.777,"end":704.845,"text":"欸才十分鐘前欸我沒有要我跟你講今天我們有一說一有二說二你的時序是不對的而這個不對的時序所以本席才講說你請提供去年三月茶場之後的一個資料跟紀錄但我們要講的是為什麼現在開放美牛最正點是所以剛剛所以現在要承認是剛剛口誤是不是是例行性的茶場"},{"start":706.15,"end":729.416,"text":"為什麼會開放美牛為什麼我們要擴大開放為什麼今天專案報告為什麼會有那麼多國人的疑慮啊不就是因為你的ART不就是因為美國的壓力然後說我們要整個開放那沒有幫國人把關然後現在還要跟我們講所以我們現在才講是說站在衛福部站在我們主管機關的角度我們要嚴格把關不要沒有任何的配套好不好 謝謝沒有問題"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:15:32.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:15:42.594000+08:00","text":"剛剛說了一個大白話，農業部要更改政策以因應食安之前，與衛福部完全沒有開會、沒有討論，真的是讓我們國人感到非常地憂心。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:15:43.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:15:49.160000+08:00","text":"感謝召委，請經貿談判辦公室的徐執秘，然後還有……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T13:15:49.160000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:15:51.703000+08:00","text":"請徐執秘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:15:51.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:15:51.863000+08:00","text":"好，先請徐執秘。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:15:53.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:15:54.065000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:15:56.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:04.820000+08:00","text":"我想今天開宗明義還是要強調，對外溝通談判大家都希望努力，但是我們是務實不務虛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:06.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:36.559000+08:00","text":"因為你之前也在顏慧欣副總談判代表的辦公室裡面很長一段時間，本席想要先就教一下，本席有看到一個新聞，現在外界講這個霸凌的源頭直指總談判代表楊珍妮，2024年顏慧欣報到的時候，有沒有發生過被總談判代表咆哮的事情，是不是可以說明一下？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:36.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:37.980000+08:00","text":"有關於……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:37.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:38.581000+08:00","text":"有沒有看到這個新聞？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:39.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:40.336000+08:00","text":"我有看到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:40.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:42.298000+08:00","text":"有沒有看到顏家人講？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:42.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:16:43.259000+08:00","text":"這個是顏家人所講嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:16:43.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:01.817000+08:00","text":"而且說當時有一位徐姓執秘帶顏慧欣副總談判代表去他的辦公室坐，被楊珍妮知道之後暴跳如雷，然後要求他先出來，事後特別提到還跟徐姓執秘直接咆哮。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:04.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:05.781000+08:00","text":"有幾位徐姓執秘？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:07.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:11.025000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，裡面講的徐姓執行秘書應該就是指我……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:12.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:13.627000+08:00","text":"只有一位徐姓執秘？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:14.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:14.448000+08:00","text":"對，是的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:16.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:33.623000+08:00","text":"這件事情在調查的過程當中，我都已經有向外部委員說明，如果允許的話，我可以在這邊再公開地說一次，我對這個事情完全沒有印象。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:33.623000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:34.623000+08:00","text":"你對這件事情完全沒有印象？","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:34.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:35.703000+08:00","text":"我對這個事情完全沒有印象。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:36.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:44.245000+08:00","text":"所以報導裡面指出「該執秘受楊珍妮咆哮責罵」，你沒有印象？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:44.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:45.386000+08:00","text":"是，我沒有印象。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:46.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:17:54.468000+08:00","text":"在你共事的過程裡面，到底有沒有看到經貿談判辦公室有霸凌的事件，或是感覺到有霸凌的氛圍？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:17:54.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:18:12.476000+08:00","text":"本席在衛環委員會覺得最重要的就是，之前討論勞動部的霸凌事件、討論相關的霸凌事件，其實目的只有一個，就是我們不希望有任何人用權勢霸凌，來造成公務體系、公務部門的不對等，而進一步有人受到傷害。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:18:12.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:18:30.449000+08:00","text":"但現在顏慧欣女士確實已經離世，當然她離世的直接理由是不是跟霸凌有關，要等調查報告，但我想問的是，他的遺書裡提到關於經貿談判辦公室的就是執行層面充滿消極敷衍的態度，你有沒有感受到？","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:18:32.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:18:34.529000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，我個人是完全沒有感受到辦公室有霸凌的狀況。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:18:35.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:18:42.925000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得經貿談判辦公室是和樂、歡樂、充滿朝氣，那顏慧欣的遺書裡面寫的都不是事實？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:18:44.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:18:51.137000+08:00","text":"我覺得顏副總在裡面所提到的，就是像比如說……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:18:51.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:18:54.379000+08:00","text":"他講到CPTPP沒有時程、沒有計畫，充滿消極……","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:18:54.379000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:19:15.713000+08:00","text":"關於CPTPP的部分，我完全沒有聽到他有這樣的陳述，至於編制化的部分，我跟他一直有在討論，也都有努力過，只是因為後來對美談判比較密集，所以這個部分有點耽擱，但是院裡面也是有給我們6位編制內的人員。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:19:15.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:10.369000+08:00","text":"徐執秘，我不知道你是誰的人，公部門有些時候會看是誰的人，但我覺得如果今天已經有一位副總談判代表離世，然後他是被媒體稱說曾經服務過兩位總統而來協助談判溝通，結果到目前為止，你今天講的好像是他的遺書裡面寫的都不是事實，我不知道你這樣子……沒關係，你有你的立場，現在調查還在進行當中，但本席現在講的其實就是一個很重要的部分，到底經貿談判辦公室從過去到現在，有沒有讓國人覺得明明有打CPTPP，結果原來大白話是裡面根本沒有相關的一個計畫跟節奏，楊珍妮總代表今天也沒有來，但經濟委員會也有邀請過吧，我不知道他還可以躲到什麼時候？","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:11.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:19.712000+08:00","text":"有關CPTPP的部分，其實政府內部都有討論，然後相關部會、相關單位都有在分工，也都有在進行當中。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:19.712000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:21.072000+08:00","text":"所以你現在講的就是因為死無對證嗎？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:21.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:23.493000+08:00","text":"所以他遺書裡面寫的不是事實？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:25.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:26.354000+08:00","text":"死無對證？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:26.354000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:27.874000+08:00","text":"都賴給他？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:27.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:30.918000+08:00","text":"他沒有辦法再為自己發聲，所以他的遺書不是事實？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:31.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:32.580000+08:00","text":"如果這樣的話我請教，行政院院長為什麼要重啟調查？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:32.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:43.545000+08:00","text":"如果照你這樣講，經貿辦公室和樂融洽，那行政院院長為什麼第一時間還要重啟調查？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:44.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:20:58.874000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，有關於調查的事情，這次都是由外部委員在進行調查當中，院裡的立場就是相關的進度以及調查的方式都是由外部委員來進行……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:20:59.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:01.276000+08:00","text":"這種跳針式的回答就不用再繼續了。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"徐執行秘書崇欽","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:01.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:06.659000+08:00","text":"因為您剛剛的問題是針對我個人，所以就我個人知道的部分來回答。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:06.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:07.399000+08:00","text":"你個人可以回答的，你剛剛已經回答了嘛。對。好。","quality":0.368},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:07.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:07.780000+08:00","text":"請石部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:07.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:14.328000+08:00","text":"洪委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:14.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:16.090000+08:00","text":"部長，簡單2分鐘跟你請教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:16.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:26.739000+08:00","text":"剛剛本席也很重視食安法第三十五條源頭管理的部分，因為食安法第三十五條明確規定主管機關可以在有食安疑慮的時候，源頭管理去查廠。對。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:35.367000+08:00","text":"你先講到去年3月有針對我們今年要開放的牛血、牛脂等相關部分進行查廠？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:36.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:37.339000+08:00","text":"美牛的部分？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:38.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:39.560000+08:00","text":"查廠細節我請署長來說明。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:39.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:49.747000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為我們現在要很明確地了解是你們查了，剛剛賴士葆委員問的也是本席想追問的，如果真的ART通過之後，你們什麼時候要去做查廠？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:50.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:21:58.547000+08:00","text":"現在要開放的是美牛以及牛隻的副產品，包括牛血、牛脂等相關，去年有查廠到這個部分？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:21:59.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:05.316000+08:00","text":"牛脂跟牛血是要做飼料的，跟人食用是沒有關係的，第一件說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:05.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:09.261000+08:00","text":"第二件是去年3月份的時候，我們其實已經出去查廠，查廠時間是……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:10.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:12.726000+08:00","text":"去年3月的時候是查什麼樣的項目？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:13.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:27.709000+08:00","text":"特別是美牛在ART裡面有提到的一些相關議題，我們就針對那個議題所謂高風險的部位，我們就進行查廠，去了一個禮拜，查了4個廠。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:27.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:28.389000+08:00","text":"我請教您是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:29.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:29.870000+08:00","text":"我是食藥署署長，委員好。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:30.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:30.790000+08:00","text":"姜署長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:32.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:34.331000+08:00","text":"什麼時候美國跟我們談判關稅？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:35.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:36.271000+08:00","text":"我們什麼時候……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:37.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:39.172000+08:00","text":"是去年4月啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:39.172000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:22:40.544000+08:00","text":"我們去年3月……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:22:40.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:02.137000+08:00","text":"川普總統是去年4月才提出說全球關稅提高30%，然後之後才開始一個國家、一個國家過來做談判，結果我們的食藥署超前部署，去年3月就先針對這些開放的部分先做查廠，你們是已經吃了秤砣鐵了心，已經知道要開放了，是不是？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:02.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:02.417000+08:00","text":"不是、不是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:02.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:02.937000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:02.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:04.118000+08:00","text":"你剛剛的時序講得不對喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:04.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:08.661000+08:00","text":"因為每一年有相關的NTE……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:08.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:14.085000+08:00","text":"是，但是你剛剛有沒有提到為了這次ART去做查廠？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:14.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:15.146000+08:00","text":"這是你剛剛提到的喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:15.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:19.509000+08:00","text":"應該講是為了相關的議題，歷年來在所謂NTE裡面……","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:19.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:26.954000+08:00","text":"就是為了相關議題，但是過去到現在，我們有沒有討論過要開放美牛，進一步美牛的相關副產品或是美牛更擴大開放？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:27.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:27.414000+08:00","text":"其實並沒有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:28.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:56.487000+08:00","text":"是因為這一次美國總統川普4月之後搞出了一個32%，叫全世界大家來談，所以我們的經貿辦公室、我們的談判代表才去談，才講說談到了一個ART，然後迫於無奈，因為我們要從32%調降成20%，我們迫於無奈，我們要跟日本、韓國……所以我們必須要開放美牛，進一步更擴大開放，但你現在講到一個大白話是原來去年3月我們就在做超前部署啊！","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:57.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:23:57.747000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:23:57.948000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:03.871000+08:00","text":"政府什麼時候做超前部署，不是在做管控食安，反而在做開放美牛超前部署？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:04.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:08.894000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，歷年來的NTE裡面對於美牛的議題，其實長期都是重要的議題。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:09.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:10.395000+08:00","text":"不覺得非常荒謬嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:10.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:13.537000+08:00","text":"所以在這個議題上面，我們一直都持續在做風險評估。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:14.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:18.520000+08:00","text":"是啊，但你如果沒有打算要開放的話，你為什麼要去查一些還沒有開放的地方？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:19.581000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:20.321000+08:00","text":"不是，跟委員說明……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:20.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:27.776000+08:00","text":"部長，這件事情國人都在看，因為現在感覺是全面失守。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:28.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:29.676000+08:00","text":"當初怎麼樣罵美牛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:30.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:32.317000+08:00","text":"民進黨政府在野的時候怎麼樣罵美牛？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:33.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:33.997000+08:00","text":"講那是毒牛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:34.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:43.220000+08:00","text":"然後2021年要開放進口，到現在因為ART，你居然跟我們講沒有辦法，因為我們要競爭力、我們要什麼的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:44.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:45.201000+08:00","text":"有沒有既視感啊？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:46.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:57.710000+08:00","text":"那個時候要進口什麼美牛、美豬，說CPTPP如果沒有進口的話，會不對等、不公平，會沒有辦法加入，4年過去了，在哪裡？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:24:58.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:24:59.634000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:00.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:02.116000+08:00","text":"現在又再一個超前部署？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:02.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:17.028000+08:00","text":"應該是這樣講，美牛的議題一直在進行當中，因為世界動物健康組織重新發布對於BSE的風險管控標準不同，所以才需要一直討論這個議題……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:17.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:22.532000+08:00","text":"部長，本席認為說一個謊要用一百個謊來圓，很難啦！不、不……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:23.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:25.014000+08:00","text":"兩個部分給本席報告。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:25.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:30.579000+08:00","text":"去年3月你們去查廠的內容報告，這可以提供吧？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:30.579000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:31.579000+08:00","text":"這個應該沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:31.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:43.233000+08:00","text":"還有，本席的要求與賴士葆委員一樣，假設未來……因為ART現在還沒有送進立法院，所以我們現在到底要不要馬上急著簽ART？","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:44.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:25:58.324000+08:00","text":"從2月24日與美國談判關稅到現在，其實有一些國家也都還沒有簽訂，如果一百五十天後……因為美國政府也需要國會通過授權才能延長，那我們要不要急著簽？","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:25:58.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:10.425000+08:00","text":"一旦送進立法院，若未來真的確認有相關的話，農業部、衛福部一定要在生效之後即刻啟動查廠，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:10.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:12.387000+08:00","text":"應該是有新申請項目進來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:13.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:16.509000+08:00","text":"雖然有開放，但不見得有申請；有申請了，我們才會查。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:16.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:18.231000+08:00","text":"有申請就一定要查，是不是？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:19.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:20.632000+08:00","text":"請提供相關資料，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:20.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:25.035000+08:00","text":"另外向委員補充說明，去年3月份……其實每年都有例行性的查廠。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:25.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:28.958000+08:00","text":"你剛剛已經講了，要不要回放一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:29.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:39.368000+08:00","text":"為了ART，所以去年3月有做相關的查廠，也因此，剛剛賴士葆委員在質詢的時候才會問，你們要不要新做查廠？","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:39.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:43.213000+08:00","text":"你剛剛還先搪塞，說去年已經查過了、去年查過了，不用！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:46.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:26:54.620000+08:00","text":"才10分鐘前，我沒有要……我跟你講，今天我們有一說一、有二說二，你的時序是不對的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:26:55.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:04.223000+08:00","text":"而這個不對的時序……所以本席才請你提供去年3月查廠之後的資料跟紀錄，我們要講的是為什麼現在開放美牛，這次的重點……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:04.223000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:07.044000+08:00","text":"跟委員更正，去年的重啟不是為了ART去查廠。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:07.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:09.765000+08:00","text":"所以現在要承認剛剛是口誤，是不是？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:10.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:10.525000+08:00","text":"是例行性查廠。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:12.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:13.170000+08:00","text":"為什麼會開放美牛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:13.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:15.031000+08:00","text":"為什麼我們要擴大開放？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:15.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:16.431000+08:00","text":"為什麼今天要專案報告？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:16.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:18.152000+08:00","text":"為什麼國人會有那麼多疑慮？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:18.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:19.812000+08:00","text":"不就是因為ART？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:20.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:22.993000+08:00","text":"不就是因為美國的壓力，以致我們要整個開放？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:24.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:35.316000+08:00","text":"你們沒有幫國人把關，然後現在還跟我們講……所以我才說站在衛福部、站在主管機關的角度，要嚴格把關，不要沒有任何配套，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:35.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:35.416000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:35.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:38.773143+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:39.073143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:44.501714+08:00","text":"待會在楊瓊瓔委員詢答完畢後，休息20分鐘用餐。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-15T13:27:44.801714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-15T13:27:47.658857+08:00","text":"現在請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}