{"error":false,"id":["168612"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168612,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168612","日期":"2026-04-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-16T10:42:02+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-16T10:47:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:20","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5c6c6faabdac9c28b071155cc578060524d82c1ebe87fe24e494fea1324b5f1afaa2c62ee39d587a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"10:42:02 - 10:47:22","會議時間":"2026-04-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣電力股份有限公司董事長、國家發展委員會主任委員及農業部部長就「我國再生能源及電網韌性之發展現況、建置進度、容量目標、推動困境、法規障礙及相關改善對策」進行報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及4月16日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":10.240343750000001,"end":13.51409375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":12.855968750000002,"end":14.070968750000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":19.20096875,"end":19.21784375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":19.21784375,"end":19.62284375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":19.875968750000002,"end":23.84159375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":24.31409375,"end":62.367218750000006,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":62.502218750000004,"end":82.88721875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":83.51159375,"end":90.21096875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":91.34159375,"end":94.02471875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":94.71659375,"end":102.56346875000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":103.18784375000001,"end":117.19409375000001,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":117.59909375000001,"end":129.56346875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":127.20096875,"end":127.62284375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":128.11221875,"end":133.39409375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":129.59721875,"end":142.91159375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":142.28721875000002,"end":147.80534375000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":145.57784375,"end":146.28659375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":148.04159375,"end":161.25471875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":160.74846875,"end":165.22034375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":164.51159375,"end":179.91846875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":180.25596875000002,"end":182.44971875000002,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":181.85909375,"end":188.32221875000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":187.15784375,"end":192.22034375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":192.00096875,"end":193.40159375000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":193.53659375,"end":236.11221875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":235.69034375,"end":269.74409375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":270.04784375,"end":274.38471875,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":274.55346875000004,"end":283.80096875000004,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":282.97409375,"end":286.07909375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":285.23534375,"end":285.97784375000003,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":286.23096875000005,"end":295.54596875000004,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":288.47534375000004,"end":288.89721875000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":294.38159375000004,"end":300.70971875000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":300.67596875000004,"end":303.54471875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":301.36784375,"end":301.77284375,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":302.71784375000004,"end":306.51471875000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":306.05909375000005,"end":311.32409375000003,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉委員書彬","start":311.52659375,"end":317.51721875000004,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":315.55971875,"end":317.51721875000004,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":317.55096875000004,"end":318.49596875000003,"speaker_score":0.95},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳部長駿季","start":319.66034375000004,"end":320.20034375,"speaker_score":0.95}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.285,"end":14.026,"text":"好有請農業部陳俊基 農業部陳部長部長好我們看到是上個月漁電共生的新制草案已經確定由農業部的漁業署經濟部能源署光電工會的光電的工協會來研擬那由農業署來研定"},{"start":38.314,"end":55.784,"text":"漁電設計指引提出這個案場的標準設計模式那也決定說案場漁溫的經營權有光電業者無償出讓呢提供漁業署跟養殖協會媒合漁青來進場這是一個改變是好事情那我們看到漁業署也說呢草案件有找漁業的團體進場來做討論但是我們看到的是中華民國的養殖漁業發展協會的執行長呢"},{"start":62.788,"end":69.49,"text":"侯彥榮他說這次的草案協商當中修訂當中養鞋並沒有被徵詢並表示過去是講的是要做養鞋的輔導那請問一下目前的情況如果沒有光電的漁電的設計指引並沒有漁業的實際經營的養殖協會的參與的話那怎麼樣能夠做出來一個好的指引呢"},{"start":91.477,"end":116.811,"text":"第一個我跟委員說明這樣子的一個所謂的漁電工生專業的分工這樣的一個作為還在我們內部的規劃當中所以相關的養鞋在那時候提出說他並沒有被取斷只是我們那時候還沒有啟動正式的對外去討論那上個禮拜其實我們已經找他了第二個我要跟委員報告的就是說"},{"start":117.651,"end":146.936,"text":"我在報告書裡面有寫就是過去的案場都是光電業者用他的想法去蓋蓋完了以後那些餘溫可能有一些我知道你們已經在想要把這個問題在程序開始所以這個東西我相信一定是要跟專業的養殖業者跟光電業者做好的一個合作用他的專業去做他專業的事情那請問一下你們草案什麼時候會大概會出來養殖業者的部分一定會"},{"start":148.216,"end":168.785,"text":"第一個就是說這樣的一個概念是大家都被認同而且是可執行的以外那同樣的就是後續的這些媒合的部分我們也要建立一個好的機制但是你還沒回答我大概什麼時候會出來你們時程規劃應該有方式我想我們沒有一個完整的時程說一定要多久因為"},{"start":169.525,"end":191.947,"text":"我們不願意貿然的推出來然後有非常多的不同的意見然後又沒辦法解決所以我想我們會更好的一個設計以後讓大家都能夠朝這個方向走重點是養殖業者一定會去發整體的一定會去邀請他們來去參與一定會 上禮拜五也邀請他們把我們的想法跟他說明了"},{"start":192.287,"end":220.256,"text":"那我就免為要再跟農業部提醒一下這些部分呢你剛才說的漁電本來是就是漁電共生嘛對不對那現在情況之下呢因為你們目前早上說要漁跟電要分開這樣子呢我們特別要知道說如果設計的好當然沒問題可是要知道有些問題是在中間才發生的覺得要知道說如果電業的部分呢它光電業它如果並沒有去對於後面的它也要沒有承擔一些部分"},{"start":221.036,"end":246.664,"text":"承擔的一些就是說他在後面如果發生問題的時候我就說合作的部分當中機制不是只有前面就做好而是必須到後面的時候包括他的一些前面的一些投資包括後面的成果部分呢他也應該一起下去配合的話才能達到是不是可以承諾這樣的事情我想這個就是在我們在討論在設計的裡面一個非常重要的大家要有這個認同在施工的時候光電業者要有一定的承諾而不是說他想怎麼蓋就怎麼蓋"},{"start":248.064,"end":274.091,"text":"然後相對的蓋好以後他的作業區漁民專業養殖的這些協會認為這樣子的作業是不受影響的那不受影響的話漁民就願意進來那漁民進來的時候也不是說光電業者就完全從此沒有責任他還有相關的這些連帶的必須要去在共同經營的情況之下去為這個漁電工生而努力"},{"start":274.591,"end":300.03,"text":"好 如果往這方向是進行啦 希望不要到時候變成說光電呢 跟那個雨夜又分開了那大家就沒辦法去適用到我們現在的這個二十四條的部分我們講的是專業的分工是 好 希望說到你們剛才有涉及這個部分嗎是不是可以把這個後續的一個發展當中是不是可以跟本席的 就有這樣的相關的程序跟本席來做持續的報告我想我們溝通告一段落我們再跟委員做一個說明因為溝通的時候還要收集不同的意見這樣子"},{"start":300.731,"end":309.979,"text":"好 希望說能夠往很重要的方向有一個比較好的一個確定的方向再跟委員聲明好 希望這邊的漁電的部分的這個3.0未來是這樣3.0嘛 對不對這樣的發展呢是能夠為我們台灣的光電業這邊還有包括農業呢漁業這邊也找到另外一個新的出路好 謝謝好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:42:12.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:42:13.785000+08:00","text":"有請農業部陳駿季部長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:42:14.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:42:14.206000+08:00","text":"請農業部陳部長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:42:14.206000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:42:15.206000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:42:14.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:42:14.306000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:42:14.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:42:53.381000+08:00","text":"我們看到上個月漁電共生的新制草案已經確定由農業部的漁業署、經濟部能源署、光電公協會來研擬，由漁業署來研訂漁電設計指引，提出案場的標準設計模式，也決定案場的漁塭經營權由光電業者無償出讓，提供漁業署跟養殖協會媒合漁青進場，這是一個改變，是好事情。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:42:54.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:43:09.369000+08:00","text":"我們看到漁業署也說草案皆有找漁業團體進場做討論，但是中華民國養殖漁業發展協會的執行長侯彥隆說，在這次的草案協商、修訂當中，養協並沒有被徵詢，並表示去年討論的概念是由養協輔導的。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:43:09.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:43:11.470000+08:00","text":"請問一下，目前的情況，如果漁電設計指引沒有養殖漁業發展協會的參與，怎麼樣能夠做出一個好的指引呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明","start":"2026-04-16T10:43:33.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:43:56.569000+08:00","text":"第一個，所謂漁電共生這樣專業分工的作為還在我們內部的規劃當中，所以養協在那個時候提出，但他並沒有被徵詢，我們那時候也還沒有啟動正式的對外討論，不過上個禮拜我們已經找他了。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明","start":"2026-04-16T10:43:56.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:09.693000+08:00","text":"第二個我要跟委員報告的是，我在報告書裡面有寫，過去的案場都是光電業者用他的想法去蓋，蓋完了以後，那些魚塭可能有一些作業方面……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:10.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:14.273000+08:00","text":"我知道，我們現在想要把這個問題在程序開始的初期階段就進行……","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:15.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:25.115000+08:00","text":"對，所以這部分我相信一定是要跟專業的養殖業者以及光電業者做好的合作，用他的專業去做他專業的事情。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:25.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:27.976000+08:00","text":"對，這是好事情，請問一下你們的草案大概什麼時候會出來？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:27.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:30.577000+08:00","text":"養殖業者的部分，一定會找他們就對了？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:32.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:42.982000+08:00","text":"這樣的概念是大家都認同且是可執行的，同樣地，後續的媒合部分，我們也要建立一個好的機制。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:43.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:44:45.983000+08:00","text":"但是你還沒回答我大概什麼時候會出來，你們應該有時程規劃吧？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:44:46.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:45:04.237000+08:00","text":"我想我們沒有一個完整的時程說一定是多久，因為我們不願意貿然地推出來，然後有非常多的不同意見又沒辦法解決，我想我們會有更好的設計以後，讓大家都能夠朝這個方向走。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:45:04.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:45:09.142000+08:00","text":"重點是整體一定會邀請養殖業者來實地參與？","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:45:09.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:45:13.927000+08:00","text":"一定會，上禮拜五也邀請他們了，也把我們的想法跟他說明了。好。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:45:14.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:45:22.670000+08:00","text":"我要再跟農業部提醒一下，這些部分你剛剛說本來是漁電共生，對不對？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:45:23.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:45:45.837000+08:00","text":"但在現在的情況之下，你們打算要朝向漁跟電分開，如果設計的好，當然沒問題；可是要知道有些問題是在中間才發生的，如果光電業並沒有承擔起一些部分，例如後面發生問題的時候。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:45:46.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:45:57.520000+08:00","text":"也就是說，合作機制不是只有前面做好，而是必須到了後面，包括前面的投資、後面的成果部分，他也應該一起配合才可能達到，是不是可以承諾這樣的事情？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:45:57.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:46:20.647000+08:00","text":"我想這部分在我們的討論、設計裡面是非常重要的，大家要有這個認同，施工的時候光電業者要有一定的承諾，而不是說他想怎麼蓋就怎麼蓋；相對的蓋好以後，他的作業區要讓漁民、這些專業養殖協會認為這樣子的作業是不受影響的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:46:21.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:46:36.591000+08:00","text":"如果不受影響的話，漁民就願意進來；漁民進來之後也不是光電業者就從此完全沒有責任，他還有相關、連帶的……在共同經營的情況之下必須去為漁電共生努力。好。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:46:36.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:46:45.598000+08:00","text":"如果往這個方向進行，希望到時候不要變成光電跟漁業又分開，那就沒辦法適用到現在第二十七條的部分。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:46:45.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:46:47.479000+08:00","text":"我們講的是專業分工。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:46:49.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:46:57.247000+08:00","text":"你們有設計出這個部分，在後續的發展過程中，是不是可以就這樣的相關程序跟本席持續報告？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:46:57.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:02.731000+08:00","text":"我們溝通告一段落再來跟委員做說明，因為溝通的時候還要蒐集不同的意見。好。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:03.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:04.893000+08:00","text":"希望能夠往很重要的方向發展，尤其是……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:05.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:07.976000+08:00","text":"有一個比較好、確定的方向再跟委員說明。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:07.976000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:08.976000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:08.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:10.117000+08:00","text":"希望漁電3.0……未來是這樣的3.0，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉委員書彬","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:10.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:11.959000+08:00","text":"希望這樣的發展能夠為我們臺灣的光電業，還包括農業、漁業這邊也找到另外一個新的出路。是。謝謝。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:12.459000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:14.744714+08:00","text":"謝謝，部長先請回座。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:15.044714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:18.187571+08:00","text":"下一位質詢請蔡易餘委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}