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谢谢赵伟那我们是有请经济部经济部总部长农业部 农业部陈部长经济部请请回经济部部长请请回农业部陈部长好喂 部长好部长呢 最近"},{"start":35.003,"end":49.624,"text":"事實上從很多媒體開始在揭露這件事那事實上在農村也確實都感受得到就是說因為農村的人口老農也老人家漸漸少了那現在當然青農要挺上來"},{"start":50.285,"end":72.24,"text":"那青農挺上來這個也是一個過渡的一個期間而且青農的農村的經營跟過去傳統的老農經營不一樣但是我們也看到另外一個新的族群也就是移工移工他大概他們也漸漸適應台灣的生活那這些移工有些他可能已經取得身份有些可能是"},{"start":72.7,"end":94.048,"text":"透過嫁過來的取得身份證那有些可能是一個非法的一個移工就是我們說的這個逃逸的一個移工那他們可能會就變成一個團體這樣的一個團體就由有身份證人來租租農地那或者是甚至是直接直接就是私約的方式"},{"start":94.648,"end":98.13,"text":"輸入的方式,去做這些農地,然後就變成說這樣的一個移工團體,他們就去經營了這樣的一個農作,他們經營農作,第一就是他們的身份,跟我們傳統,我們農村,我們騎車的身份有差,成本就有一個很大的落差,然後第二個就是說,他們可能就是因為他們是,"},{"start":120.461,"end":141.354,"text":"逃逸的 所以他們也不用勞健保如果我們台灣人農村我們要請一個移工的話我們要幫他最基本的勞基法的一個保障我們都必須要確保但是要確保這些保障事實上就是成本的一部分所以成本起來台灣人去聘請去聘請這個農工跟"},{"start":144.115,"end":159.38,"text":"他說他們自己 大家口口的他們就做 大家賺他們的身分差這麼多這個身分差這麼多就會造成整個農作 整個市場的行情就會有一個很大的落差那我用這個上下游的一個報導"},{"start":161.42,"end":172.465,"text":"如果菜價掉到八塊的時候以台灣的農民來說他大概是虧三塊錢但是如果是我剛講的地下的一個移工的老闆的話他會賺四塊八塊賺不到八塊台灣人賺了三塊"},{"start":185.571,"end":201.097,"text":"剛才說的那個地下的碳氣庫這個就有這樣的一個落差那這個落差就會造成整個市場行情的不穩定這件事情也已經在蔓延然後大家都會注意到這件事情那部長你們現在要怎麼面對這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":202.977,"end":219.467,"text":"我第一個跟委員說明,您剛剛提過資訊高利貸的部分11塊會虧3塊,這是不確實的一個訊息那這個比喻是可以被接受的那重要的就是說我們現在目前就光農業的移工的失聯率大概8%點多"},{"start":220.988,"end":247.191,"text":"所以我們第一個重點就是說怎麼樣去降低這個失聯率那我們發現說很多移工在進到台灣來的時候他就欠了非常多的錢所以他希望在短時間之內趕快還錢的時候那很容易就跑掉去可以到處打工可以賺更多錢這是一件事我們用會想辦法跟勞動部做執銘的方式來處理那您提到這個問題我們也有一些掌握"},{"start":247.811,"end":267.404,"text":"那掌握的過程中其實最大的困擾就是人頭就是合法的人頭出面租地那這個部分會造成很大的困擾那相對的他租地以後用非常多的黑工黑工的部分的時候當你去查的話他這一瘋瘋就散掉了那散掉的時候農民反而抱怨我們"},{"start":268.385,"end":281.377,"text":"沒辦法收藏了因為過往他們有時候會仰賴一些黑工去幫他採收然後一旦強制去抓的時候所有的黑工跑掉的時候反而在那個產期那個產季會有問題所以抓那個時候他們沒工啦因為這是一個很矛盾的就是說事實上"},{"start":287.503,"end":315.263,"text":"包括過去很多台灣的農民也是有這樣的一些工的需求這些工的需求往往是這些人只是說這些人現在他們也知道怎麼適應台灣的這一套文化所以我現在就是說我會強化他的我們的外展移工的跨區跟跨時間的一個合作去協力他們去做然後針對有次序的去管理我們的移工我覺得是我們下一階段更重要的一個要點部長"},{"start":316.064,"end":326.017,"text":"事實上這所有的問題這個事實上塑本追元起來就是台灣的農業勞動力的一個缺乏農業勞動力這才是最根本的問題農業勞動力事實上也產生幾個來自幾個面向部長你可以去思考"},{"start":332.466,"end":356.883,"text":"第一個就是說我們對於農保的一個要求事實上過於嚴格這個嚴格就來自於說比方說啦我農報嘛那我如果我我的農作的期間跟我事實上我可以打一點零工那目前是規定180天我可以容許你我農保那我去有短期的去打零工可以有180天可是這個180天事實上"},{"start":359.985,"end":378.494,"text":"這個規定是不是過於嚴格因為事實上有的農作我只要做一個我都有時間就去做另外一個工作所以能不能就是把這個180天放寬到一年或者是怎樣的一個時間第二個第二個我覺得部長可以認真去思考就是說我們現在在審查農保的時候萬一這個農保他可能"},{"start":380.535,"end":406.294,"text":"又被掛了公司的負責人 結果他這個農保的資格就會不見那事實上我們知道說 有的很多去用掛公司的負責人 甚至是就是 孩子去開公司要用他們爸爸的名字 很多年代影響到他們爸爸的農保的資格這個當然就是另外的問題 但是我認為說就農保的這麼嚴格的一個限制之下這個農保比老保啦 比什麼保都還要"},{"start":407.054,"end":427.952,"text":"都還要嚴格喔就是說到了64歲即將他要65歲農保退休前就要去審查他的農保資格但是這個農保資格又很容易的因為剛剛他可能跟老保只要有一點淨核關係的話往往農保就不見變成說這裡的農民都覺得說喔 剝農要怎麼剝農保這都變得很不確定"},{"start":434.597,"end":461.246,"text":"這會間接的就是影響到說事實上我們很多農作是可以用兼職的方式很多兼職的這一些勞動力的來源但是我們在農保這一塊卻把它經過丁麗蘭這一道門關起來所以我覺得部長你如果我們現在因為台灣現在漸漸邁向少子化是一個問題那這個勞動力的一個來源如果我們還因為保險制度去把它"},{"start":461.846,"end":483.184,"text":"做一個限縮的話 我覺得這件事情不對而且現在很多東西都是網路事實上現在電腦都可以對接我們只要堅守一個說反正他就是一個每個人都有一個退休制度但是他的保險的一個資格不要輕易的讓他不見來我想要聽一下部長這樣來看我想謝謝委員的提醒喔 那我想"},{"start":484.665,"end":509.255,"text":"從農業部的立場來因為農保他沒有退場制度他不像說65歲以後就沒有了就要轉別的就是他一直把他去那只要他願意真正的從事農業我想農業部願意做相關的一個條件的一個改善但是我們也不希望說因為條件的改變了以後造成很多因為勞保本身的費用一個月才78塊而已非常非常的便宜"},{"start":510.195,"end":532.283,"text":"就會讓他變成用這樣的一個漏洞去加保農保但是他根本完全沒有從事農業所以我們現在推動種植登記制度有沒有他以後就可以做有效的勾基跟我們現在的這個肥料實名制 農藥實名制做勾基所以我們現在很多資料庫的勾基相信對這個制度的改善會有幫助"},{"start":533.223,"end":552.139,"text":"反正說了制度啦我們還是希望第一個就是這個制度是有效而且它是可以確保大家的福利存在然後這套保險我也希望是可以讓更多人可以加入農作的這一個行列我們還是要站在這裡鼓勵大家都來務農不管還是兼職農還是兼職農就是讓他"},{"start":556.942,"end":579.852,"text":"從事農業的人可以鼓勵他們進來這樣才對不好意思 講話都花一分錢就好 都一分錢就是說我想跟這個部長反映一下阿里山的這個林鐵啦我上個禮拜我有到這個阿里山去這個十字路車站 哇非常的漂亮那裡整個景觀啊那裡騎阿里山林鐵到了那一個的氣氛然後他"},{"start":580.592,"end":589.879,"text":"它的軌道旁也是一個很漂亮的一個商圈的聚落但是這個十字路車站事實上有個狀況他們反映的就是說因為畢竟是臨鐵它是比較傳統的五分車所以這個阿里山的這個鐵路常常會變得旅客無法充分掌握車子到達的時間事實上台鐵都有這樣的話就是說他就直接告訴人家"},{"start":606.55,"end":608.311,"text":"讓旅客可以去了解車子大概會準點到或者是會慢時到他就不用把他的時間耗在那裡等待我覺得這個是科技上用個設備應該就可以解決的"},{"start":624.8,"end":639.064,"text":"報告這個絕對做得到而且我們沒有往上做因為阿里山的這些路線往往因為天都的關係會延誤嘛但是能夠讓旅客知道延誤的時間他還可以做別的事情這個我想我們會即刻去處理這個技術非常成熟了這技術應該是做得到我覺得這個零鐵也應該來採納這樣的技術讓整個旅遊的品質會再提高好不好謝謝部長謝謝蔡議員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:30+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:48.764000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:48.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:49.944000+08:00","text":"有請經濟部。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:49.944000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:53.165000+08:00","text":"請經濟部龔部長。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:53.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:55.045000+08:00","text":"農業部陳部長，經濟部請先回。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:47:55.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:47:57.645000+08:00","text":"經濟部部長先請回，請農業部陳部長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:48:01.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:48:01.786000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:48:02.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:48:02.807000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:48:03.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:48:19.624000+08:00","text":"部長，最近很多媒體開始揭露這件事，事實上在農村也確實都感受得到，因為農村的人口、老農、老人家漸漸少了，現在當然青農要挺上來。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:48:20.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:48:32.193000+08:00","text":"那青農挺上來也是一個過渡期間，而且青農的農村經營跟過去傳統的老農經營不一樣，但是我們也看到另外一個新的族群，也就是移工。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:48:33.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:48:50.443000+08:00","text":"移工大概也漸漸適應臺灣的生活，這些移工有些可能已經取得身分，有些可能是透過嫁過來取得身分證，有些可能是非法移工，就是我們說的逃逸移工。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:48:51.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:49:05.709000+08:00","text":"他們可能會就變成一個團體，這樣的一個團體就由有身分證的人來租農地，甚至是直接以私約的方式去租這些農地，變成這樣的一個移工團體去經營農作。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:49:05.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:49:06.949000+08:00","text":"第一個，他們的成本就跟我們傳統農村請工人的成本有差，成本就有一個很大的落差。","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:49:07.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:49:32.062000+08:00","text":"第二個，可能因為他們是逃逸的，所以他們也不用勞健保。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:49:33.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:49:44.870000+08:00","text":"如果臺灣人在農村要請一個移工的話，我們都必須要確保他基本的勞基法保障，但是要確保這些保障事實上就是成本的一部分。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:49:45.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:50:06.339000+08:00","text":"所以成本比起來，臺灣人聘請農工跟移工本身號召自己做自己賺的成本差很多，這個成本差很多就會造成整個農作、整個市場的行情會有一個很大的落差。","quality":0.734},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:50:07.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:50:21.965000+08:00","text":"我以《上下游》的報導來看，如果菜價掉到8塊的時候，以臺灣的農民來說，大概是虧3塊錢；但如果是我剛剛講的地下移工老闆的話，他會賺4塊！","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:50:22.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:50:48.736000+08:00","text":"一樣在拍賣場賣8塊，臺灣人賠3塊，而剛才說的地下賺4塊，這部分就有這樣的一個落差，這個落差就會造成整個市場行情的不穩定，這件事情也已經蔓延，然後大家都注意到這件事情。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:50:49.036000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:50:51.097000+08:00","text":"部長，你們現在要如何面對這樣的一個狀況呢？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:50:53.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:51:03.223000+08:00","text":"第一個跟委員說明，關於您剛才提到的一個資訊，高麗菜的部分11塊會虧3塊，這是不確實的訊息，但這個比喻是可以被接受的。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:51:04.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:51:14.932000+08:00","text":"重要的就是，我們目前光是農業移工的失聯率大概百分之八點多，所以我們第一個重點就是怎麼樣去降低失聯率？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:51:15.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:51:34.408000+08:00","text":"我們發現很多移工在進到臺灣時就欠了非常多的錢，所以當他希望在短時間之內趕快還錢的時候，很容易就跑掉，可以到處打工、可以賺到更多錢，這是一件事，我們會想辦法跟勞動部用直聘的方式來處理。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:51:34.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:51:46.757000+08:00","text":"關於您提到的這個問題，我們也有一些掌握，過程中其實最大的困擾就是人頭，由合法的人頭出面租地，這個部分會造成很大的困擾。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:51:46.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:51:54.382000+08:00","text":"相對的，租地以後用非常多的黑工，當你去查黑工的時候，他就一窩蜂散掉了！","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:51:55.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:10.497000+08:00","text":"散掉之後農民反而抱怨沒辦法收成了，因為過往他們有時候會仰賴一些黑工去幫他採收，一旦強制去抓導致所有黑工跑掉的時候，反而在那個產期、那個產季會有問題，所以……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:10.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:10.877000+08:00","text":"結果那個時候換他們沒工人。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:10.877000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:11.877000+08:00","text":"對，換他們沒工人，所以我想……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:11.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:28.891000+08:00","text":"這是很矛盾的，事實上過去很多臺灣農民也有一些工人的需求，這些工人的需求往往是靠這些人，這些人現在也知道怎麼適應臺灣的這一套文化。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:29.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:45.243000+08:00","text":"對，所以現在就是，我會強化我們外展移工跨區跟跨時間的合作，協力他們去做，有次序地管理移工我覺得是我們下一階段更重要的一個要點。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:45.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:53.073000+08:00","text":"部長，這所有的問題溯本追源起來就是臺灣農業勞動力的不足。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:53.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:53.674000+08:00","text":"對，缺乏。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:52:53.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:52:54.195000+08:00","text":"農業勞動力才是最根本的問題。是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:53:02.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:53:17.797000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們對於農保的要求過於嚴格，這個嚴格就來自於，比方我是農保，我在農作期間可以打一點零工。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:53:18.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:53:31.366000+08:00","text":"目前是規定容許農保的人可以短期打零工180天，可是這個180天的規定是不是過於嚴格？","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:53:31.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:53:42.631000+08:00","text":"因為事實上有的農作只要做一下，還有時間再去做另外一個工作，所以能不能把這個180天放寬到1年或者是其他時間？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:53:43.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:53:55.278000+08:00","text":"第二個，我覺得部長可以認真去思考的就是，現在在審查農保的時候，萬一這個農保的人可能又被掛了公司負責人，結果他這個農保的資格就會不見。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:53:55.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:54:08.668000+08:00","text":"但事實上我們知道很多人被掛公司負責人，甚至只是孩子開公司而用爸爸的名字，結果連帶影響到爸爸的農保資格，這當然就是另外一個問題。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:54:08.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:54:37.231000+08:00","text":"但是我認為在農保這麼嚴格的限制之下，農保比勞保、比什麼保都還要嚴格，包括65歲農保退休前就要去審查農保資格，但是這個農保資格又很容易只要跟勞保有一點競合關係，往往農保就不見，變成這些農民都覺得到底要怎麼樣保農保？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:54:37.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:54:37.932000+08:00","text":"這一切都變得很不確定！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:54:44.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:55:00.402000+08:00","text":"這也會間接影響到，事實上我們有很多農作是可以用兼職的方式，有很多兼職勞動力的來源，但是我們在農保這一塊，卻把這一道門關起來。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:55:00.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:55:14.548000+08:00","text":"部長，臺灣現在漸漸邁向少子化的問題，勞動力的來源，如果我們還因為保險制度去把它做一個限縮的話，我覺得不對。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘：農業勞動力來自幾個面向，部長可以去思考","start":"2026-04-16T10:55:14.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:55:30.362000+08:00","text":"而且現在很多東西都可以在電腦、網路對接，我們只要堅守反正每個人都有一個退休制度，但是他的保險資格不要輕易地讓它不見，我想聽一下部長的看法。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:55:31.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:55:32.324000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:55:33.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:55:50.772000+08:00","text":"我想從農業部的立場，因為農保沒有退場制度，它不會在65歲以後就沒有了、就要轉別的，可以一直保下去，只要他願意真正地從事農業，我想農業部願意做相關條件的改善。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:55:51.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:07.278000+08:00","text":"但是我們也不希望因為條件改變了以後，造成很多……因為農保本身的費用一個月才78塊而已，非常非常的便宜，就會變成用這樣的一個漏洞，讓他去加保農保，但是他根本完全沒有從事農業。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:07.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:22.263000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在推動種植登記制度，他以後就可以做有效的勾稽，跟我們現在的肥料實名制、農藥實名制做勾稽，所以我們現在很多資料庫的勾稽，相信對這個制度的改善會有幫助。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:23.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:31.410000+08:00","text":"好，部長，反正所有的制度，我們還是希望第一個，這個制度是有效，而且是可以確保大家的福利存在。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:31.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:42.018000+08:00","text":"然後這一套保險，我也希望可以讓更多人加入農作的行列，我們還是要站在鼓勵大家來務農，不管他是兼職農還是從事農……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:42.018000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:43.018000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在會鼓勵願意從事農業的人加入。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:42.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:49.783000+08:00","text":"對，就是讓從事農業的人可以鼓勵他們進來，這樣才對。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:49.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:56:51.424000+08:00","text":"不好意思，召委，再給我一分鐘就好。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:56:52.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:57:14.935000+08:00","text":"就是我想跟部長反映一下阿里山林鐵，我上個禮拜有到阿里山去，這個十字路車站，整個景觀非常地漂亮，以及到了阿里山林鐵的那個氣氛，它的軌道旁也是一個很漂亮的商圈聚落。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:57:15.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:57:18.918000+08:00","text":"但是這個十字路車站事實上有個狀況，他們反映因為畢竟是林鐵，它是比較傳統的五分車，所以阿里山鐵路常常會變得讓旅客無法充分掌握車子到達的時間。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:57:18.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:57:38.291000+08:00","text":"事實上，臺鐵有在那邊做一個告示牌說，這臺車會慢10分鐘、這臺車會慢20分鐘，讓旅客可以去了解車子大概會準點到或者會晚到，他就不用把他的時間耗在那裡等待，我覺得這是科技上用個設備就可以解決的。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:57:54.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:57:57.021000+08:00","text":"報告，這個絕對做得到，而且我們明天馬上做。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:57:57.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:01.322000+08:00","text":"因為阿里山的這些路線，往往因為天候的關係會延誤！對。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:01.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:07.044000+08:00","text":"但是能夠讓旅客知道延誤的時間，他還可以做別的事情，這個我們會即刻去處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:07.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:08.044000+08:00","text":"對，這個對他們去這裡……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:07.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:07.584000+08:00","text":"這個技術非常成熟了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:07.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:08.264000+08:00","text":"這個技術應該是做得到，我覺得林鐵應該來採納這樣的技術。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:08.264000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:09.264000+08:00","text":"對，我們在各個車站會有這樣的系統。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:08.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:08.864000+08:00","text":"讓整個旅遊的品質會再提高，好不好？是。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蔡委員易餘","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:08.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:09.044000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:09.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:10.044000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:09.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:09.064000+08:00","text":"謝謝蔡易餘委員優質的質詢。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:09.564000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:14.135429+08:00","text":"下一位羅明才、羅明才，羅明才委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:14.435429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:18.149714+08:00","text":"林德福、林德福，林德福委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-16T10:58:18.449714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-16T10:58:20.735429+08:00","text":"請賴士葆委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}