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麻煩請林主委我們請林主委主委好 主委我們越南會本席一直強調是說最好是我們都不要有發生事情我們可以來超前部署預作防範那這個禮拜在本席的選區也發生一個重大的這個建設即將落成就淡江大橋"},{"start":31.674,"end":53.905,"text":"那交通部長禮拜六也到我們淡江大橋去參與這個路跑的民腔活動那我先請教因為馬上就有民眾上橋的時候才發現就是說這個機車道相對來講太窄這個是民眾看到之後而且這是現場當天的一個情況就是說一台僅用的摩托車經過的時候感覺它就已經這一個車道就已經滿了"},{"start":54.645,"end":69.239,"text":"那所以說沒有辦法有在這個進出那如果說在橋上發生碰撞的話可能造成這個危險好 那馬上也有媒體下標這就像是狗道啊這用的比較不好聽就是相對來講意思就是說比較小條"},{"start":70.34,"end":92.754,"text":"所以我現在也想請運安會請教一下我們專業的意見 兩個部分第一 過去我們有沒有給予譬如說公路單位或是我們相關的道路設計的一個建議說到底如果說現行的機車專用道多少的寬度以上是符合我們機車專用道的一個安全有沒有這樣的一個規劃或設計或是建議"},{"start":93.806,"end":96.289,"text":"所以之前我們運安會主導的是沒有機車道的部分沒有"},{"start":111.047,"end":132.725,"text":"所以都是由公路局這邊來自行認定因為公路局他們搬出來他們的一個內規是講是說符合現行機車道符合規定啦但是這個就是大家的一個這個感覺體感那尤其是您看到左右兩邊它的鋼索在這邊那無形當中它的視野你可能就會讓機車騎士他就會比較"},{"start":134.309,"end":141.989,"text":"擔心或是說比較不敢往這個鋼索這邊靠攏因為鋼索如果一個碰撞這個是非同小可嘛好那我們再來看到第二個部分"},{"start":144.843,"end":172.645,"text":"來 下面一張 這個是現在上面這一張是關渡橋 應該是不是關渡橋還是我們同仁是抓其他地方 其他地方的橋樑對不對好 這個是混合橋樑 這不是關渡橋啦 抱歉我看錯這不是關渡橋 但就是說現行我們也開始在檢討是說一定要保留機車專用道嗎還是說可以混合車道因為很多民眾的想法也有另外一個想法就是說其實不要再有點類似歧視機車族"},{"start":173.766,"end":191.322,"text":"就是說機車只能走機車專用道 汽車走汽車道好像美其名是保護 但實際上是有點類似歧視的概念所以我們現在也有一些道路設計師已經把機車專用道給拿掉然後希望是說用混合車道的方式但是要求大家都要依照速限來行駛"},{"start":192.924,"end":203.844,"text":"所以我也想請教一下這個比較專業意見就是說你以我們運安會現在也處理過大小的這個公路的一個狀況我們目前的方向或是建議到底是應該往哪個方向走"},{"start":205.566,"end":225.853,"text":"這個我覺得委員這個意見非常好我們通常會定期這個航空水路鐵路公路會有一些藝術安全的研討會我們會把這個議題帶到研討會去跟公路主管官講這個可能要注意一般就如我們剛剛委員講我們都是對汽車啦那機車方面我們可能還要再去find out出來"},{"start":226.593,"end":252.031,"text":"那如果說剛剛主委也講了就是說我覺得這個方向是正向的就是說過去我們可能比較重視到汽車組但機車組的權益其實更重要為什麼因為全台一千四百萬輛二輪機車組一千四百萬輛平均可能家戶都有超過一個家戶都有一輛以上的機車所以兩個部分我就拜託一下主委因為這個禮拜四本席也感謝召委安排我們會到"},{"start":252.911,"end":277.436,"text":"淡水跟巴黎坐淡江大橋通車前的一個在檢視交通的部分那我也把這個議題給納入那是不是我也可以再邀請我們運安會當天也出席如果說有的話就可以提供一些寶貴的建議不一定用到但是至少我們那一天我們一起到現場可能沒有辦法到現場但是就到淡水跟巴黎來做開會討論那您這邊也提供專業意見那另外第二個部分機車道未來"},{"start":278.576,"end":300.352,"text":"到底該不該專用到還是要該不該分流還是要混合這一點剛剛主委有特別提到未來會納入我們的這個運安會的道路交通的會議來去做討論並且給我們交通部門做一個後續政策的研究嘛是不是我們會把議題拋出來跟他們討論好因為真的有兩派說法啦一派說法是講是說"},{"start":302.415,"end":330.48,"text":"機車二輪跟四輪不要混一起我也真的有聽過這樣的說法是說因為有些時候大車容易逼車造成機車歧視的一個膽戰但是也有另外的說法是說當機車族都是要走機車專用道的時候其實是一個歧視而且如果說連同現場我們現在看到下面淡江大橋的規劃路那麼窄的情況假設上面有一個碰撞那後面的機車都塞滿了那更重要的是救護車怎麼上來"},{"start":332.907,"end":348.812,"text":"對不對其實你看下面這張圖淡江大橋如果說兩邊都有柵欄那救護車如果說真的發生碰撞的話那救護車他要走哪邊公路局第一時間回應是講是說可以走右邊這個叫做行人專用道"},{"start":350.145,"end":366.448,"text":"那行人專用道不是行人走的嗎沒想到到最後是規劃是說要來救護車來上來那可是更重要的是旁邊又有這個柵欄那如果說機車朋友他碰撞雷殘跌倒了他沒有辦法行動了那我們單駕要怎麼樣經過"},{"start":368.055,"end":391.642,"text":"是要跨過那個柵欄所以說其實這一些都是在還沒有通車前還沒有現場我們沒有辦法上去看之前沒有辦法知道的但是現在還有一個月就是到5月12號正式通車前我們也要求主管機關公路局一定要正視地方的問題跟疑慮那我們也希望在這個月裡面趕快滾動檢討來找出最合適的辦法所以我們也請運安會跟我們一起努力這樣好嗎是 謝謝好"},{"start":393.782,"end":419.382,"text":"來 那主委另外我們再來提到就是說剛剛我們也講到今年是太魯閣號的事件發生五週年那其實台鐵的安全提高這個是我們大家一起努力要求的我想運安會也做了很多的努力那重點在於是什麼 重點在於是說現在我們還是看到很多時候是有所謂的吊車場的重大吊車事故那這個是本席整理出來的資料"},{"start":420.089,"end":434.341,"text":"這是跟台鐵公司以及交通部單位來整理的資料我發覺過去這五年尤其是2024年台鐵從台鐵局變台鐵公司公司化之後吊車事故件數沒有減少"},{"start":436.803,"end":453.492,"text":"反而他的傷亡數還是有呈現2022年2023年反而相對比較低而且沒有傷亡數但2024年發生了就是公司化之後反而2024年2025年件數又上升而且畢竟有傷亡"},{"start":454.292,"end":470.533,"text":"所以我覺得說在這一個部分上面來講還是要問到底台鐵公司他公司化之後沒有比較安全那運安會在這邊能夠給予台鐵公司怎麼樣的督促跟協助來要求台鐵公司找出問題來解決問題主委是不是可以再說明一下"},{"start":472.78,"end":499.16,"text":"呃 我也講得沒有錯台鐵的吊車事故確實偏高啊從雲南匯八108.8要成立到現在齁總共有76件的吊車事故那吊車庫的前大三大的事故類型齁都是第一個是出軌有28件然後擠擦有26件沖創有13件等等那其中以七堵最多"},{"start":499.881,"end":520.043,"text":"再來就是花蓮那這個整個來看它整個吊車事故喔就是它人為因素居大部分人為因素對那但是您剛也提到就是說七堵跟花蓮那是這兩個地點的人訓練相對來講比較不專業還是說他比較容易缺工還是說他人員不足"},{"start":521.48,"end":547.762,"text":"否則的話為什麼會是又集中在這兩個吊車場還是說這兩個吊車場的吊車量很多所以說它的比例來講也會相對比較高確實它的母數比較高沒錯對那但是大多數還是人為因素嘛對對所以我們當然還是要對症下藥所以本席的立場還是很堅定就是說我們希望的是不要有事故但如果說發生事故之後我們能夠看科學的數據找出痛點來解決問題"},{"start":549.423,"end":556.843,"text":"那台鐵公司化那時候也是希望是說要安全啊所以現在我們看到了問題但是解方在哪邊"},{"start":558.294,"end":585.627,"text":"這才是本席想要今天就教主委或是我們這個鐵道組的部分我是不是請鐵道組組長來 簡單說明一下好不好是 報告委員台鐵的吊車事故到目前為止我們已經有針對這個事故類型做五件的立案調查那主要是第一個在人為的操作方面就是吊車座位的人員的這個工作分配跟協調還有人員對於SOP的這個落實度"},{"start":586.347,"end":606.913,"text":"第二個我們也在去年分別在七堵紀錄段還有花蓮各立一個案子主要是針對於設備的維護包括剛剛有提到的列車出軌的事故主要是跟設備維護有關另外花蓮紀錄段撞擊停留車的事故主要是跟人為的操作有關所以不同的類型我們都有立案調查"},{"start":607.233,"end":620.906,"text":"那未來也會朝這方面給予改善建議好 所以我們現在來做這樣子相關調查其實人為是很大的因素那人不外乎就兩點本席看到的一個是訓練專業度不足一個是人力不夠"},{"start":622.92,"end":644.217,"text":"這兩點都有可能是人為因素因為如果說訓練專業度不足就等於是他明明要訓練100個小時但他可能30個小時急救張因為缺人他就馬上上線了這是一個樣態有可能的另外一個樣態是他就真的人不夠所以即便是老經驗的師傅他工作了8小時10小時12小時他也會精神恍惚而造成人為的疏失"},{"start":644.898,"end":666.023,"text":"那現在比較傾向哪一個因為每一次我們跟台鐵講台鐵都說他們會努力他們會加緊但是我們現在想要用外部比較專業的力量去告訴他們是說你如果要加人你應該加人如果你應該要增加訓練時數你應該要增加訓練時數而不能每一次都推給說人手不足那第一線到最後就第一線人員倒霉啊"},{"start":668.354,"end":695.241,"text":"是包委員那目前根據我們現在尤其是我們在3月份有針對於這個台鐵在河仁站吊車撞擊到這個水泥貨車還有在3月30在七堵吊車場這邊發生的這個重裝事件我們有立案調查那這部分我目前確實我們會朝人力的運用包括他的訓練方面會去做做一次分析那看到底是人力的不足什麼時候可以出來"},{"start":696.642,"end":716.537,"text":"包委員這個案子的這個試治要報告我們最快在9月以前會先處分試治要報告我們盡快我們盡快我們目前是規劃但是我們盡快因為這個合併兩個案子一起調查所以需要一點點時間那這個部分我們預計會朝人力的運用訓練甚至於人員對於SOP落實度的部分進行比較深度的一個分析"},{"start":716.817,"end":734.617,"text":"好 來 主委那最後簡單一分鐘啦本期就講是說因為我們還是希望是運安會成立其實我今天在質詢的時候我也在思考如果哪一天我們運安會可以變成是行安會行車安全委員會就是說不只是運輸安全是行車安全那"},{"start":735.097,"end":759.435,"text":"更好的用意跟宗旨是什麼從過去的非安會到運安會如果未來我們變成是往前安會來行走意思是我們希望不要有重大事故之後我們再來調查而是我們現在已經看到問題我們就是超前部署去預作防範那未來都沒有重大事故運安會的業務可以越加越單純變成是運安會就是一個把脈的醫師"},{"start":761.456,"end":788.798,"text":"內診的醫師不要實當外科醫師不要出了大問題之後再來動手術而是我們可以透過平常的內診就點出問題讓各不管是公路水路空運能夠找到問題然後防範未來我想這是本席的期待所以像這一個鐵路吊車的事故既然已經有這些數據都一直看到是說近兩年公司化之後並沒有下降的情況那九月出來我相信九月出來前你們可能會再找台鐵公司開會"},{"start":789.639,"end":815.189,"text":"那至少在開會的時候一定要點出到底是人力不足的問題還是訓練不夠的問題還是有什麼其他的問題但最根本是點出來之後要求台鐵公司要來做改善這一個也是本席會拿到你們的專業意見之後我們會來督促台鐵公司我相信交通委員會的人都會一起努力但最重要是我們需要一個把脈的結果這樣可以嗎"},{"start":816.771,"end":827.545,"text":"我們也認為這個應該有多方的督促他比較好那就拜託主委本席會持續緊盯這個議題我們一起為鐵路安全也為我們的公路安全來努力好不好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:15.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:15.449000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:15.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:16.929000+08:00","text":"麻煩請林主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:18.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:18.550000+08:00","text":"請林主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:18.550000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:23.611000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:23.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:24.731000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:25.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:32.853000+08:00","text":"主委，針對我們運安會，本席一直強調最好我們都不要有發生事情，可以超前部署及預作防範。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:34.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:14:46.137000+08:00","text":"這個禮拜在本席選區有一項即將落成的重大建設，也就是淡江大橋，交通部部長在禮拜六也到我們淡江大橋參與路跑的鳴槍活動。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:14:46.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:15:10.852000+08:00","text":"我先請教，因為有民眾上橋後才發現這機車道相對來講太窄，簡報上照片是當天現場的情況，民眾看到一台警用摩托車經過的時候，感覺這車道就已經占滿了，所以沒有辦法進出，如果在橋上發生碰撞的話，可能造成危險。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:15:12.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:15:18.239000+08:00","text":"馬上有媒體下標，這就像是狗道，這用得比較不好聽，相對來講，意思就是比較小條。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:15:25.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:15:38.672000+08:00","text":"第一，過去我們有沒有給予譬如公路單位或相關道路設計的建議，現行機車專用道到底多少的寬度以上是符合機車專用道的安全規範？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:15:39.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:15:41.754000+08:00","text":"有沒有這樣的規劃、設計或是建議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:15:41.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:15:43.267000+08:00","text":"我們今天業務報告裡有關RSA的道路安全檢核機制，我們也許可以擴大，且跟交通部建議不是只有汽車道，機車可能也要去考量。","quality":0.019},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:15:43.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:15:45.269000+08:00","text":"之前運安會主導的是沒有機車道的部分？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:00.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:28.784000+08:00","text":"所以都是由公路局自行認定，因為公路局搬出他們內規是有符合現行機車道寬度的規定，但這就是大家的一個體感，尤其是您看到左右兩邊的鋼索，無形當中，它的視野可能就讓機車騎士會比較擔心或是不敢往鋼索這邊靠攏，如果碰撞到鋼索是非同小可嘛！","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:29.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:40.388000+08:00","text":"再來是第二個部分，簡報上這張照片上面是不是關渡橋？","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:40.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:43.431000+08:00","text":"還是我們同仁是抓其他地方的橋梁？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:44.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:46.693000+08:00","text":"好，這是混合橋梁。抱歉！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:46.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:48.595000+08:00","text":"我看錯，這不是關渡橋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:49.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:54.559000+08:00","text":"現行我們也開始在檢討一定要保留機車專用道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:54.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:16:55.941000+08:00","text":"或是可以混合車道？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:16:56.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:17:09.853000+08:00","text":"因為很多民眾也有另外一個想法，就是不要再有點類似歧視機車族，說機車只能走機車專用道、汽車走汽車道，好像美其名是保護，但實際上是有點類似歧視的概念。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:17:10.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:17:32.823000+08:00","text":"所以現在也有一些道路設計是已經把機車專用道拿掉，希望用混合車道的方式，但是要求大家都要依照速限來行駛，我想請教一下比較專業的意見，運安會也處理過大小公路的狀況，目前的方向或是建議，到底是應該往哪個方向走？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:17:34.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:17:47.530000+08:00","text":"我覺得委員這個意見非常好，我們通常定期就航空、水路、鐵路、公路會有一些運輸安全的研討會，我們會把這個議題帶到研討會去，提醒公路主管機關對這個部分可能要注意。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:17:48.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:17:54.853000+08:00","text":"一般就如同剛剛委員講的，我們都是針對汽車，至於機車方面，我們可能還要再去find out出來。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:17:55.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:18:03.478000+08:00","text":"好，如果剛剛主委也講了，我覺得這個方向是正向的，過去我們可能比較重視汽車族，但機車族的權利其實更重要……是。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:18:03.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:18:03.939000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:18:03.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:18:31.253000+08:00","text":"因為全臺有1,400萬輛二輪機車族，平均一個家戶可能都有超過一輛以上的機車，所以兩個部分我就拜託一下主委，因為這個禮拜四本席也感謝召委安排我們到淡水跟八里，進行淡江大橋通車前就交通部分的再檢視，我也把這個議題納入，是不是可以再邀請運安會當天也出席？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:18:31.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:18:43.315000+08:00","text":"如果有的話，就可以提供一些寶貴的建議，不一定用到，但是至少那天我們一起到現場……可能沒有辦法到現場，但是就到淡水跟八里來開會討論，您這邊也提供專業意見。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:18:43.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:18:48.677000+08:00","text":"另外第二個部分，機車道未來到底該不該設專用道？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:18:50.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:18:51.459000+08:00","text":"該不該分流，還是要混合？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:18:52.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:03.868000+08:00","text":"這一點剛剛主委也特別提到，未來會納入運安會的道路交通會議來討論，並且給交通部門作後續的政策研究，是不是？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:04.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:06.510000+08:00","text":"我們會把議題拋出來，跟他們討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:06.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:20.637000+08:00","text":"好，因為真的有兩派說法，一派說法是說機車二輪跟四輪不要混一起，我也真的有聽過這樣的說法，因為有些時候大車容易逼車，造成機車騎士的膽顫。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:20.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:27.178000+08:00","text":"但是也有另外的說法是，當機車族都要走機車專用道的時候，其實是一種歧視。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:27.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:39.480000+08:00","text":"而且如果連同現場，我們現在看到下面淡江大橋的規劃，路那麼窄的情況，假設上面有碰撞事故，那後面的機車都塞滿了，更重要的是救護車怎麼上來？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:41.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:42.627000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:42.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:19:52.950000+08:00","text":"其實你看下面這一張圖，淡江大橋兩邊都有柵欄，如果真的發生碰撞的話，救護車要走哪邊？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:19:52.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:20:02.269000+08:00","text":"公路局第一時間的回應是說可以走右邊，這個叫做行人專用道，行人專用道不是行人走的嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:20:02.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:20:15.448000+08:00","text":"沒想到，最後是規劃要讓救護車上來，可是更重要的是旁邊又有柵欄，如果騎機車的朋友碰撞而「犁田」、跌倒了，他沒有辦法行動了，那擔架要怎麼樣經過？","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:20:17.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:20:20.296000+08:00","text":"是要跨過那個柵欄？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:20:20.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:20:40.582000+08:00","text":"所以其實這一些都是在還沒有通車前，我們還沒去現場看之前沒有辦法知道的，但是現在還有一個月，就是在5月12日正式通車前，我們要求主管機關公路局一定要正視地方的問題跟疑慮，也希望在這個月趕快滾動檢討找出最合適的辦法，所以我們也請運安會跟我們一起努力，這樣好嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:20:40.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:20:40.622000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:20:43.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:20:58.975000+08:00","text":"主委，另外，我們再來提到，剛剛我們也講到今年是太魯閣號事件發生五週年，其實臺鐵的安全提高是我們大家一起努力要求的，我想運安會也做了很多的努力，那重點在於什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:20:58.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:21:13.012000+08:00","text":"重點在於現在我們還是看到很多時候，有所謂的調車場的重大調車事故，這個是本席整理出來的資料，是跟臺鐵公司及交通部整理來的資料。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:21:13.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:21:27.784000+08:00","text":"我發覺過去這五年，尤其是2024年臺鐵局公司化轉變為臺鐵公司之後，調車事故件數不但沒有減少，反而還有呈現傷亡數。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:21:29.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:21:42.472000+08:00","text":"2022年、2023年反而相對比較低，而且沒有傷亡數，但2024年公司化之後，2024年及2025年的件數又上升，而且有傷亡情形。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:21:43.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:21:50.722000+08:00","text":"所以在這個部分上面來講，我還是要問到底臺鐵公司化之後有沒有比較安全？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:21:51.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:21:58.612000+08:00","text":"運安會在這邊能夠給予臺鐵公司怎麼樣的督促跟協助，來要求臺鐵公司找出問題、解決問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:21:58.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:21:59.513000+08:00","text":"主委是不是可以再說明一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:22:02.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:22:36.009000+08:00","text":"委員講得沒有錯，臺鐵的調車事故確實偏高，從運安會108年8月成立到現在，總共有76件調車事故，調車事故前三大事故類型，第一個是出軌有28件，擠岔有26件，衝撞有13件等等，其中以七堵最多，再來就是花蓮，整個來看調車事故就是以人為因素居大部分。","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:22:36.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:22:37.811000+08:00","text":"人為因素？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:22:38.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:22:49.022000+08:00","text":"但是您剛剛也提到七堵跟花蓮，那是這兩個地點的人員訓練相對來講比較不專業，還是它比較容易缺工，還是它人員不足？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:22:50.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:22:59.748000+08:00","text":"否則為什麼會是又集中在這兩個調車場，還是這兩個調車場的調車量很高，所以在比例上來講也會相對比較高？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:00.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:03.090000+08:00","text":"確實它的母數比較高，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:03.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:05.973000+08:00","text":"對，但是大多數還是人為因素嘛！對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:06.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:16.762000+08:00","text":"我們當然還是要對症下藥，所以本席的立場還是很堅定，就是我們希望的是不要有事故，但如果發生事故之後，我們也能夠看科學的數據，找出痛點來解決問題。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:18.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:25.843000+08:00","text":"臺鐵公司化時也是希望要安全，現在我們看到了問題，但是解方在哪邊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:27.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:32.436000+08:00","text":"這才是本席今天想要就教主委或是鐵道組的部分。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:33.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:34.898000+08:00","text":"是不是請鐵道組組長來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:34.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:23:36.158000+08:00","text":"簡單說明一下，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:23:36.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:24:13.972000+08:00","text":"是，報告委員，臺鐵的調車事故到目前為止，我們已經針對事故類型立案調查5件，主要第一個在人為的操作方面，就是調車作業人員的工作分配跟協調，還有人員對於SOP的落實度；第二個，我們去年分別在七堵機務段還有花蓮各立一個案子，主要是針對設備的維護，包括剛剛提到的列車出軌事故，主要是跟設備維護有關，另外花蓮機務段撞擊停留車事故，主要是跟人為的操作有關。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:24:13.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:24:18.475000+08:00","text":"所以對不同的類型，我們都有立案調查，未來也會朝這方面給予改善建議。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:24:18.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:24:29.906000+08:00","text":"好，所以我們現在做這樣相關的調查，其實人為部分占很大的因素，那人不外乎就兩點，本席看到的，一個是訓練專業度不足，一個是人力不夠。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:24:31.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:24:42.268000+08:00","text":"這兩點都有可能是人為因素，因為如果訓練專業度不足，等於是他明明要訓練100個小時，但可能30個小時急就章，因為缺人，他就馬上上線了，這是一個有可能的樣態。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:24:42.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:24:53.197000+08:00","text":"另外一個樣態是就真的是人不夠，所以即便是老經驗的師傅，工作了8小時、10小時、12小時，他也會因而精神恍惚造成人為的疏失。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:24:54.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:24:55.678000+08:00","text":"現在比較傾向哪一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:24:55.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:25:15.003000+08:00","text":"因為每一次我們跟臺鐵講，臺鐵都說他們會努力、會加緊，我們現在想要用外部比較專業的力量去告訴他們的是，如果應該加人就要去加人，如果應該增加訓練時數就要增加訓練時數，而不能每一次都推說人手不足，到最後就是第一線人員倒楣啊！","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:25:17.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:25:43.601000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們針對臺鐵3月份在和仁站發生調車撞擊水泥貨運車事件，以及3月30號在七堵調車場發生的衝撞事件有立案調查，針對這個部分我們目前確實會朝人力運用，包括訓練方面，會去做一次分析，看到底是人力不足……","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:25:43.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:25:44.241000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:25:45.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:25:49.845000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個案子的事調報告最快在9月以前會先出一份……","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:25:49.845000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:25:51.746000+08:00","text":"還要等到9月？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:25:51.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:25:57.691000+08:00","text":"我們儘快，我們儘快，目前是這樣規劃，但是我們儘快，因為是合併兩個案子一起調查，所以需要一點點時間。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:25:58.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:26:05.817000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們預計會朝人力的運用、訓練，甚至於人員對於SOP落實度的部分進行比較深度的分析。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:26:06.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:26:27.480000+08:00","text":"主委，最後簡單一分鐘，本席要講的是，我們還是希望運安會的成立……其實今天在質詢的時候我也在思考，如果哪一天運安會可以變成是行安會（行車安全委員會），就是不只是運輸安全，是行車安全，更好的用意跟宗旨是什麼？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:26:27.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:27:05.468000+08:00","text":"從過去的飛安會到運安會，如果未來變成是往行安會來走，意思是我們希望不要發生重大事故之後再來調查，而是我們現在已經看到問題就超前部署去預做防範，未來都沒有重大事故，運安會的業務可以越加單純，變成運安會是一個把脈的醫師、內診的醫師，不要當外科醫師，不要出了大問題之後再來動手術，而是我們可以透過平常的內診就點出問題，讓不管是公路、水路、空運能夠找到問題，然後防範未然，這是本席的期待。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:27:06.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:27:32.844000+08:00","text":"所以像這個鐵路調車事故，既然已經從這些數據一直看到近兩年公司化之後並沒有下降的情況，你說報告9月出來，我相信在9月出報告以前，你們可能也會再找臺鐵公司開會，至少在開會的時候，一定要點出到底是人力不足的問題還是訓練不夠的問題，還是有什麼其他的問題，但最根本是點出來之後，要求臺鐵公司要做改善。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:27:34.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:27:44.189000+08:00","text":"本席拿到你們的專業意見之後也會來督促臺鐵公司，我相信交通委員會的人都會一起努力，但最重要的是我們需要一個把脈的結果，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:27:45.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:27:48.494000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們也認為這個應該要有多方的督促才會比較好，謝謝。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-20T09:27:48.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:27:56.545000+08:00","text":"好，那就拜託主委，本席會持續緊盯這一個議題，我們一起為鐵路安全，也為公路安全來努力，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:27:57.045000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:27:58.187857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T09:27:58.487857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:00.487857+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:00.787857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:03.930714+08:00","text":"接下來請萬美玲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}