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謝謝召委 我們一樣有請林主委林主委好 林主委早我想我延續一下那個洪柏凱委員那我們看到台鐵在3月12號四強號列車在新左營發生火災3月13一部柴電機車跟水泥貨車這個出軌的一個事故"},{"start":30.928,"end":52.105,"text":"那麼3月30又發生兩列EMU900區間車在七堵的吊車廠相撞出軌那但是我想要請教一下主委為什麼3月13跟這個3月30那這兩件案子要並案來調查那您剛剛有說到說這個調查要9月30才要出來為何又需要這麼久的時間 以上"},{"start":53.44,"end":77.008,"text":"我請鐵塔組組長 因為這兩個案子有一點雷同那如果3月30號這個案子重啟調查的話 那個程序走一趟會浪費時間要縮短時間 所以把這兩個合併那為什麼要到9月30這麼久謝謝報告委員 3月13號台鐵在和仁站我只想知道為什麼調查時間需要這麼久"},{"start":78.013,"end":105.983,"text":"包委因為我們的調查主要是第一個我們要收集現場的這些證據然後我們要解讀這個記錄器了解當時的車速還有當時的這些人為操作情形那重點是我們要檢視台鐵提供的相關吊車的這個標準作業程序還有我們要進行人員的訪談等於是我們第一個部分要先把這個事故的過程讓它能夠先能夠還原那我們才能接下來但你以上所說的這些我都不覺得需要到六七個月七八個月啊"},{"start":108.335,"end":134.628,"text":"這個我來報告一下我們每一個不管是航空、水路、鐵道、公路每一個案子的調查的流程序是有五大階段嘛我當然知道有它的階段啦但是主委其實這件案子相對單純啦那您剛剛所說的不管是什麼現場會刊啦保全證據啦然後人員的這個約談啦等等我本身都不覺得需要到六個月、七個月啦所以我是在提醒啊"},{"start":135.208,"end":146.937,"text":"因為會是不是以後像在台鐵如果是比較在這個內部或者是說在調度場發生的事情是不是能夠再加快速度一點那你看我其實本席調閱了過往我們調查的報告裡面我發現我們台鐵在吊車時相撞的類似事故除了現在我們在談的這兩起之外其實去年四月在花蓮段也發生過"},{"start":160.248,"end":189.021,"text":"那麼在你們的調查報告當中我們更可以看到在同類型的事件113年 114年也發生過了四起那誠如剛才主委所說的為什麼這兩件病案因為類似所以類似的事件其實一而再再而三的一直去發生那其中事故的原因以過去這運安會有說很多大部分都是人為失誤造成這本席看到可是呢這個台鐵公司的考核卻說都有符合標準"},{"start":189.761,"end":210.008,"text":"所以主委我想請教一下如果您認為是就是說您的調查報告是說人為失誤但是台鐵的考核制度卻說符合標準那你會不會覺得其實台鐵的考核制度會某些程度來說淪為形式可能沒有很大的作用所以事故才會一再的發生那再來 院安會的調查報告也有示警對不對"},{"start":211.649,"end":221.669,"text":"那一而再再而再的事情這個事件也不斷的發生那台鐵卻一直沒有改善那在這一點 運安會給什麼樣的建議會不會覺得真的很有無力感"},{"start":222.506,"end":249.053,"text":"我們對重複發生或者是有系統性的風險的事故我們會做議題的分析調查事故我們已經跟台鐵已經協調聯動公共這個案子再向蕭基努報告可能會出大事他也知道但是他說他的考核都是符合標準的但你卻說是有人為失誤這是很大的落差為什麼"},{"start":250.968,"end":252.01,"text":"你們討論過這樣子兩個截然不同的說法嗎應該不是說說法 調查結果嗎"},{"start":258.534,"end":283.319,"text":"應該是以運安會調查結果為主那如果以運安會調查結果為主那這可能後續我們就必須要台鐵提出一個說明跟報告如果運安會的調查才是正確的以他為主但是台鐵的考核機制說我們都已經有符合標準我覺得這樣的落差運安會似乎應該要再給他更多的一個建議也好或者是我覺得橫向大家應該要怎麼來溝通"},{"start":285.439,"end":301.352,"text":"那再來運安會的業務報告當中本席也看到您說當前改善意見沒有解列數高達82件列管超過3年以上的總數量更高達15件這個我能不能用白話解讀就是各部會根本就不太理會運安會的意見"},{"start":304.083,"end":327.671,"text":"有些改善建議是涉及比較長的計劃期程譬如說航空那個台中清泉港他是軍用機場嘛他當時發生灰岸事故所以有建議他的跑道要加設中心線燈他橫波度要改善我知道啦但是那個主委你不能拿單一那種看起來就知道困難度很高無法改善甚至於需要很多很久時間才能改善82件耶"},{"start":329.292,"end":330.456,"text":"我也解列說82件欸 你有沒有把這82件拿出來看一看檢討一下過 為什麼82件一直沒有辦法解列"},{"start":337.113,"end":362.942,"text":"八十二件是還沒有解列的那超過三年的只有十五 像我剛剛說的只有喔 十五件很多啦 主委主委這樣好不好我們針對那八十二件你會後我建議你回頭去審視一下也自己看一看這八十二件現在我們一直在列管 不是放著列管就好那是不是能夠給我們一個數據說它為什麼到現在在列管我們有沒有近期的追蹤那這十五件又是怎麼回事會後 我們一個月內給我們一個報告 可以嗎"},{"start":365.583,"end":372.747,"text":"沒問題我們事實上有定期找他們來開會好報告出來我想大家都很清楚了接下來我們再來問航空的問題那草原機場今年2月發生了德威航空一架班機在降落的時候輪胎脫落"},{"start":380.691,"end":394.061,"text":"那隨即呢越捷航空又有這個走錯滑行道那桃園機場一度關閉北跑道那後續還有三個航班因為燃油不足喊出main day我覺得這是蠻嚴重的事情不過呢看起來就是說運安會當時是講說因為沒有造成"},{"start":400.866,"end":420.696,"text":"實質值的損害所以不會介入調查本席很納悶了充滿問號就說運安會所說的實質損害是怎麼認定要到多大的損害那麼運安會才要來介入調查能不能說明一下那個航空器的實質損害它是根據國際民航公約第13號覆約裡面有關實質損害的定義這個定義對這個輪胎煞車輪軸的損害它是被排除掉的"},{"start":429.16,"end":447.286,"text":"而且我們對重大運輸事故意外事故的這個13號覆約裡面它有個列舉的項目這幾項沒有在包括在裡面所以這個那我請教一下主委喔當然你是依據國際民航公約啦來看但事實上"},{"start":448.106,"end":463.106,"text":"有的時候我們也知道條約公約或者是說這個文字喔它其實沒有辦法規範到每一個事件它都是百分之百的安全那我們覺得我們重演那謹慎的來看待其實會更好嘛那我們過去也有看到可能"},{"start":463.647,"end":471.17,"text":"看起來是一個小事故後來釀成大的飛案的事故其實我想在這個國際間實有所聞並不是沒有所以我覺得我們更嚴謹是比較好的那當然我是這樣就請教一下雖然我們沒有去做一個介入調查但是現在我們知不知道到底像德威航空這樣的狀況是因為疏於維修這個班機"},{"start":485.735,"end":495.646,"text":"還是說是有是個別班機的意外還是現場有什麼狀況那麼越捷航空會有這樣的一個走錯這個滑行道是我們在他們的這個相關的人員訓練問題還是在現場的場地指導問題這個現在我們知道了嗎"},{"start":503.477,"end":526.989,"text":"如果是屬於重大事故範圍的事運安會調查那屬於一般意外的屬於這種疏失的是民航局會做行政調查那民航局調查完畢以後會不會讓您也知道或者你會不會去跟他說我們也想要了解知道來列案民航局都是互通有無他會告訴我們互通有無那所以互通有無的結果現在您知道了嗎"},{"start":528.018,"end":542.463,"text":"我們還沒看到他的結果你說你都會互通有誤然後互通有誤的結果是你現在也還不知道因為他還沒告訴我們啊要去了解啊好不好因為這是二月份發生的事情啊那你是打算兩年後再來了解嗎所以我想我們要積極一點嘛"},{"start":545.444,"end":562.137,"text":"我剛剛還是這麼講啦尤其是非安的這種東西誰都沒有辦法保證一顆小螺絲有問題會被釀成大意外好那我們再來看到運安會在官網當中有建置一個運輸安全志願報告系統嘛這其中包含非安鐵道公路跟水路"},{"start":562.717,"end":571.661,"text":"那這個作用需要讓一般民眾或者是相關從業人員來通報自己可能會有一些相關危害安全的一個相關狀況那這個系統建制到現在這個案件數有達到預期嗎"},{"start":578.568,"end":600.138,"text":"倒不是議題 就是說我們建立這個系統我們希望越多越好那現在有多少件 成立到現在從108你感覺到現在總共有545件的志願的報告那有包括運輸重圍容顏或民眾直接提報那這500多件當中 那有去處理是真正有危害安全的狀況的有多少件"},{"start":600.888,"end":620.524,"text":"這個我請院長主來各國人報告那這545件裡面大概有60%是有這個安全價值那這些有安全價值的部分我們在每半年都會出版成專刊各個模組都會出版成一個專刊那裡面會把相關的案例去做整理然後會分售給相關的營運局官"},{"start":621.425,"end":638.301,"text":"如果達到六成以上 這個系統其實就有它的價值在那但是呢 本席查閱 不管鐵道局啦 航港局啦 民航局啊它其實也都有相 就是一樣的建制的系統啦所以 那運安會的這個系統跟我們現在各局自己建立的系統有什麼差別"},{"start":640.573,"end":652.846,"text":"應該是說其實在這個資源報告系統裡面不管是營運單位或者監禮單位或者是像我們在吊牙單位我們都有這樣的資源報告系統那主要是讓這個民航從業人員運輸從業人員裡面他可以選擇他信任的系統去提報"},{"start":655.609,"end":655.849,"text":"因為他是自發性的"},{"start":685.609,"end":694.693,"text":"那當然也有可能就是說 有沒有可能浪費了相關的資源啦 人力啦 甚至建制的經費啦本期給你們一個建議啦剛剛如果說60%是有參考價值 我覺得不錯但是請主委會後 我覺得可以跟我們相關的這些單位來看看是不是有這個整合的必要或者是橫向的在平台上面 怎麼有一個更好的做法也避免多頭馬車跟資源浪費 好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.819000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，一樣有請林主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.959000+08:00","text":"請林主委。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.979000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:12.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:13.119000+08:00","text":"林主委早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:13.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:45.434000+08:00","text":"我延續一下洪孟楷委員所談的議題，我們看到3月12號臺鐵自強號列車在新左營站發生火災、3月13號一列柴電機車與水泥貨物列車發生衝撞導致列車出軌事故、3月30號又發生兩列EMU900型區間車在七堵調車場相撞出軌。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:45.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:52.760000+08:00","text":"我想要請教一下主委，為什麼3月13號跟3月30號的這兩件案子要併案調查？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:28:53.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:28:59.085000+08:00","text":"剛剛有說這個調查結果要9月30號才會出來，為何需要這麼久的時間？以上。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:00.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:13.304000+08:00","text":"我請鐵道組組長來說明，因為這兩個案子有一點雷同，如果3月30號這個案子重啟調查的話，那個程序走一趟會浪費時間，為了要縮短時間，所以把這兩案合併。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:13.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:14.765000+08:00","text":"那為什麼要到9月30號這麼久？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:14.765000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:17.926000+08:00","text":"我請組長來說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:17.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:21.927000+08:00","text":"報告委員，3月13號臺鐵在和仁站……","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:22.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:23.988000+08:00","text":"我只想知道為什麼調查時間需要這麼久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:25.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:49.442000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為我們的調查主要是，第一個，我們要蒐集現場的證據，然後要解讀這個紀錄器，了解當時的車速及當時的人為操作情形，重點是我們要檢視臺鐵提供的相關調車的標準作業程序，還要進行人員的訪談，等於是我們在第一個部分要先把這個事故的過程能夠還原，這樣才能接下來進一步分析。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:49.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:29:52.963000+08:00","text":"但你以上所說這些，我都不覺得需要6、7個月或7、8個月的時間啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:29:55.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:30:04.139000+08:00","text":"這個我來報告一下，不管是航空、水路、鐵道或公路，每一個案子的調查程序有五大階段……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:30:05.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:30:31.616000+08:00","text":"我當然知道有它的階段，但是主委，其實這件案子相對單純，您剛剛所說的不管是現場會勘、保全證據、人員約談等等，本席都不覺得需要到6個月、7個月的時間，所以我是在提醒運安會，以後對於像是臺鐵內部或是在調度場發生的事情是不是能夠再加快速度一點。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:30:32.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:30:58.373000+08:00","text":"本席調閱了過往的調查報告發現，臺鐵在調車時發生相撞的類似事故，除了現在我們在談的這兩起之外，其實去年4月在花蓮段也發生過，從你們的調查報告當中更可以看到，同類型的事件在113年、114年發生過4起，誠如剛才主委所說的，為什麼這兩件併案？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:30:58.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:31:02.435000+08:00","text":"因為類似，所以類似的事件其實一而再再而三的一直發生嘛！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:31:04.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:31:16.001000+08:00","text":"至於事故的原因，本席看到運安會的報告顯示，大部分都是人為失誤造成的，可是臺鐵公司的考核卻說都有符合標準。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:31:16.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:31:33.126000+08:00","text":"所以我想請教一下主委，如果您的調查報告是人為失誤，但是臺鐵的考核制度卻說符合標準，你會不會覺得其實臺鐵的考核制度某種程度來說是淪為形式，可能沒有很大的作用，所以事故才會一再的發生？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:31:33.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:31:37.008000+08:00","text":"再來，運安會的調查報告也有示警嘛，對不對？對。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:31:39.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:31:47.567000+08:00","text":"一而再再而三的示警，但是這樣的事件還是不斷的發生，而臺鐵卻一直沒有改善，對於在這一點，運安會給什麼樣的建議？","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:31:47.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:31:48.649000+08:00","text":"會不會覺得真的很有無力感？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:31:49.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:07.531000+08:00","text":"我們對於重複發生或者是有系統性風險的事故會做議題的分析，事實上，對於調車事故，我們跟臺鐵也已經協調聯絡過，這個案子再這樣下去的話可能會出大事，他也知道……","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:07.531000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:08.991000+08:00","text":"他也知道？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:08.991000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:10.451000+08:00","text":"他也知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:10.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:16.053000+08:00","text":"但是他說他們的考核都是符合標準的，你卻說是有人為失誤，這是很大的落差，為什麼？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:17.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:18.589000+08:00","text":"你們討論過這樣兩個截然不同的說法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:18.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:19.010000+08:00","text":"應該不是說法，是調查結果，討論過嗎？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:25.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:28.675000+08:00","text":"應該是以運安會的調查結果為準，不是他說了算。","quality":0.35},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:28.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:29.435000+08:00","text":"以運安會的調查結果為主？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:29.435000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:30.595000+08:00","text":"是，為準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:30.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:32:50.299000+08:00","text":"好，如果以運安會的調查結果為主，可能後續就必須要求臺鐵提出一個說明跟報告，如果運安會的調查才是正確的，以此為主，但是臺鐵的考核機制卻說都已經符合標準，對於這樣的落差，我覺得運安會似乎應該要再給他更多的建議也好，或者是橫向大家應該要怎麼來溝通。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:32:52.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:08.352000+08:00","text":"再來，在運安會的業務報告當中，本席也看到當前發布的改善意見中，未解列數高達82件，列管超過3年以上的總數量更高達15件，這個我能不能用白話解讀就是各部會根本就不太理會運安會的意見？","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:11.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:26.208000+08:00","text":"有些改善建議是涉及比較長的計畫期程，譬如說航空的部分，臺中清泉崗是軍用機場，當時發生飛安事故時是有建議他們跑道要加設中心線，橫坡度也要改善，但是這個要……","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:26.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:26.588000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:26.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:37.436000+08:00","text":"但是主委，你不能拿單一看起來就知道困難度很高，無法改善，甚至需要很久時間才能改善的，82件耶，未解列數82件，你有沒有把這82件拿出來看一看、檢討一下，為什麼這82件一直沒有辦法解列？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:44.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:48.835000+08:00","text":"82件是還沒有解列的，超過3年的只有15項，我剛剛……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:48.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:49.575000+08:00","text":"只有喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:50.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:33:50.455000+08:00","text":"15件很多耶！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:33:51.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:05.981000+08:00","text":"主委，這樣好不好，針對這82件，我建議會後你回頭去審視一下、去看一看，現在一直在列管的這82件不是放著列管就好，是不是能夠給我們一個數據說明為什麼到現在還在列管？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:06.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:08.061000+08:00","text":"我們近期有沒有相關追蹤？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:08.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:09.102000+08:00","text":"這15件又是怎麼回事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:09.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:09.942000+08:00","text":"會後一個月內給我們一個報告，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:12.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:15.645000+08:00","text":"沒問題，我們事實上有定期找他們來開會討論。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:15.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:18.026000+08:00","text":"好，報告出來後，我想我們大家都會很清楚。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:18.026000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:34:19.026000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員指導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:34:18.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:35:01.153000+08:00","text":"接下來要問航空的問題，桃園機場今年2月發生了德威航空一架班機在降落的時候輪胎脫落，隨即又有越捷航空走錯滑行道，導致桃園機場一度關閉北跑道，後續還有三個航班因為燃油不足喊出「Mayday」，我覺得這是滿嚴重的事情，不過運安會當時表示因為沒有造成實質的損害，所以不會介入調查，對此本席很納悶、充滿問號，運安會所說的實質損害是怎麼認定的，要到多大的損害，運安會才會介入調查，能不能說明一下？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:35:02.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:35:28.824000+08:00","text":"有關航空器的實質損害，根據國際民航公約第十三號附約裡面有實質損害的定義，該定義是把輪胎、煞車、輪軸的損害排除掉的，對於重大運輸意外事故，這個十三號附約裡面有列舉項目，這幾項沒有包括在裡面，所以這個不……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:35:29.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:35:47.944000+08:00","text":"我請教一下主委，你是依據國際民航公約來看，但事實上我們也知道，有時候條約、公約的文字其實沒有辦法規範到每一個事件都是百分之百的安全，我們覺得從嚴、謹慎的來看待其實會更好嘛！","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:35:48.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:35:54.709000+08:00","text":"我們過去也有看到，可能看起來是一個小事故但後來卻釀成大的飛安事故，這個在國際間也時有所聞，並不是沒有，所以我覺得我們更嚴謹是比較好的。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:35:54.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:16.980000+08:00","text":"我現在就要請教一下，雖然你們沒有去做介入調查，但是現在你們知不知道，到底像德威航空這樣的狀況是因為疏於維修班機的個別班機意外，還是現場有什麼狀況？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:17.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:22.306000+08:00","text":"越捷航空走錯滑行道是他們的相關人員訓練有問題，還是現場的場地指導有問題？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:22.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:22.646000+08:00","text":"這些現在知道了嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:30.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:40.682000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果是屬於重大運輸事故範圍的是運安會調查，屬於一般意外的、屬於疏失的是民航局去做行政調查。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:41.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:43.964000+08:00","text":"民航局調查完畢以後會不會讓你也知道？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:43.964000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:45.004000+08:00","text":"應該我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:45.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:48.906000+08:00","text":"你會不會跟他說運安會也想要了解並列案？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:49.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:51.327000+08:00","text":"我們跟民航局都是互通有無，他會告訴我們。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:51.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:51.788000+08:00","text":"互通有無？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:52.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:53.989000+08:00","text":"所以互通有無的結果，現在您知道了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:55.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:36:55.858000+08:00","text":"我們還沒看到他的結果，還在調查中。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:36:57.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:00.180000+08:00","text":"你說都會互通有無，然後互通有無的結果是你現在也還不知道？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:01.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:02.121000+08:00","text":"因為他還沒告訴我們啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:03.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:03.961000+08:00","text":"要去了解，好不好？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:05.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:08.223000+08:00","text":"這是2月份發生的事情，你是打算兩年後再來了解嗎？不會。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:08.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:09.443000+08:00","text":"所以我想應該要積極一點嘛！是。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:12.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:19.069000+08:00","text":"我還是要這麼講啦，飛安這種東西誰都沒有辦法保證一顆小螺絲有問題會不會釀成大意外。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:20.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:38.661000+08:00","text":"再來，我們看到運安會在官網當中有建置一個運輸安全自願報告系統，其中包含飛安、鐵道、公路跟水路，這個作用是要讓一般民眾或者是相關從業人員來通報可能會有的一些危害安全的相關狀況，請問這個系統建置到現在，案件數有達到預期嗎？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:45.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:49.130000+08:00","text":"倒不是預期，我們建立這個系統是希望越多越好。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:49.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:37:50.070000+08:00","text":"成立到現在有多少件？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:37:52.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:38:01.435000+08:00","text":"從108年改制到現在，總共有545件的自願報告，有包括運輸從業人員或民眾直接提報的……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:38:02.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:38:07.118000+08:00","text":"這五百多件當中，去處理後是真正有危害安全狀況的有多少件？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:38:07.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:38:10.730000+08:00","text":"這個我請運安組來說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭組長永安","start":"2026-04-20T09:38:11.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:38:27.444000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這545件裡面大概有60%是有安全價值，這些有安全價值的部分，我們每半年都會出版成專刊，各個模組都會出版成一個專刊，裡面會把相關的案例去做整理，然後分送給相關營運機關……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:38:28.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:38:45.281000+08:00","text":"如果達到六成以上，這個系統其實就有它的價值在，但是本席查閱，不管鐵道局、航港局、民航局，其實也都有建置一樣的系統，運安會這個系統跟現在各局自己建立的系統有什麼差別？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"鄭組長永安","start":"2026-04-20T09:38:47.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:02.829000+08:00","text":"應該是說，不管是營運單位或者監理單位或者是像我們調查單位都有這樣的自願報告系統，主要是讓運輸從業人員可以選擇他信任的系統去提報，因為這是自發性的。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:39:02.829000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:37.851000+08:00","text":"主委，您的業務報告第四頁有寫到「持續推廣本會自願報告系統，已完成水路5個、公路11個主管機關及業者網站建置系統連結」，也就是說，鐵道局、航港局、民航局有這樣的系統，你們也有這樣的系統，有的時候有可能會重複舉報，這樣有沒有可能會浪費了相關的資源、人力，甚至建置的經費？","quality":0.217},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:39:37.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:41.573000+08:00","text":"本席給你們一個建議，剛剛如果說60%是有參考價值，我覺得不錯，但是請主委會後可以跟這些相關單位來研究看看是不是有整合的必要，或者是橫向的在平臺上怎麼樣有一個更好的做法，也避免多頭馬車跟資源浪費，好不好？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T09:39:41.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:41.693000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2026-04-20T09:39:41.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:41.693000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T09:39:42.193000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:45.050143+08:00","text":"謝謝萬美玲委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T09:39:45.350143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T09:39:48.493000+08:00","text":"接下來請林俊憲召委發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}