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請一下林主委好 我們請林主委"},{"start":18.086,"end":42.914,"text":"主委你好有關於運安會的成立是我在交通委員會一個很重要的推動的目標也終於在2019年的8月來正式掛牌成立那當初的不管是組織法或者是運輸的相關的這樣的一個運輸事故的調查法那我都有提案也參與了整個的這樣的一個討論"},{"start":46.209,"end":68.08,"text":"所以剛才提到山林溪的這樣一個油源車的事故當然他有他的一個啟動的標準我想主委也清楚那在這樣一個啟動標準不管是要3人死亡或者是死傷10人以上或者是有重大的社會影響就必須啟動這樣的一個調查那當然"},{"start":72.485,"end":91.013,"text":"三菱的遊園車它是屬於甲類的大客車甲類的大客車主委也清楚就是前輪的中心跟後輪的中心它的這樣的一個距離是4公尺以上它的重量也非常重大概17噸以上大概就是坊間的這樣的一個客運的公車"},{"start":92.386,"end":113.539,"text":"那所以在這樣的一個啟動調查標準就是由於他的園區的道路問題或是他車輛監理的問題或是他園區啊安全的這種交通的機制的問題他是一個整體的運輸安全的這樣的一個疑慮所以啟動相關的一個調查"},{"start":114.62,"end":134.888,"text":"那現在我們在整個調查的這樣一個狀況當然要有初期報告以及中期的這樣的一個事實的資料報告最後才會有明年9月的調查報告出來那4月8號已經有初步的報告出來初步的報告來 請諸位簡單說明一下"},{"start":138.674,"end":154.109,"text":"我們現在正在對車輛進行測試的檢視還有人員的訪談還有資料蒐集的相關作業中那初步報告有出來了嗎初步報告已經在4月8號發布了簡單的內容是什麼來說明一下"},{"start":158.835,"end":176.725,"text":"報告委員 基本上我們初步報告內容就是涵蓋一些很基本的資料包含運作的業者 車輛的基本資料 當時的天氣條件然後還有車輛損害的情形 人員受傷的情形大概是以上簡單的一些資料的收集"},{"start":177.165,"end":204.542,"text":"好 那我記得這次山林溪的油源車所發生的事故跟之前所發生的宜蘭就是吳老坑 綠泊的這樣一個電動小火車的所造成的失事狀況跟標準也不太一樣那其實都呈現出一個重要的問題就是說它在園區之內它並不是一般的道路"},{"start":205.583,"end":228.68,"text":"所以他不用申請車牌這樣的一個甲類大客車非常大的一個客車他並不是公路局來管轄第二他的七彩樣態他是交通的載具但是他並不是要實施安全檢查的這樣的一個遊樂設施他也不是觀光署去管轄"},{"start":230.267,"end":256.576,"text":"那我們看到 填報的項目他也不是屬於考核填報的項目為填報他也不列入缺失他也不是說展現出來就是說地方政府地方政府也沒有填報那所以目前的管理的這樣的一個模式大多都是業者自行管理這樣會有很大的安全運輸的疑慮來主委說明一下"},{"start":262.33,"end":276.095,"text":"確實是這樣子那我們現在對整個車輛的維護管理跟監理還有駕駛員操作資格認定道路設計等等那這些我們目前正在也正在一一來做在檢查中"},{"start":278.193,"end":305.771,"text":"這個問題其實我們看到在2月26號的時候公安署他有發文召集業者以及地方的政府就是說在3月19日舉辦遊樂區遊樂園區遊園車的管理研究的一個審查會議那就在開會前的8天發生了這樣一個嚴重的事故這樣一個管理缺失我們初步也還沒有改善建議對不對 來說明一下"},{"start":310.392,"end":330.376,"text":"報告委員這個案子我們3月發生之後然後我們在3月有召開一個組織會議因為我們是參與市調查邀請公路局關公署這些單位來參與那在那個會議當中我們已經有跟關公署這邊初步的來了解這個事故的樣態那關公署這邊也是蠻正面積極的來應對這個問題"},{"start":332.056,"end":348.045,"text":"好那現在只是針對發生事故的樣態來請公共署來進行相關的討論但是我們未來這種園區內的道路以及相關的車輛不管是設計養護或是管理規定上面"},{"start":349.178,"end":371.201,"text":"都必須要引入公路局的一個專業的意見這不只是觀光署的問題而已公路局的意見也非常的重要那我們看到在目前是有明顯的這樣的一個制度性的漏洞那除了遊園車雲南會也必須建議交通部或者是交通部也必須要"},{"start":372.253,"end":386.187,"text":"整體的盤點相關的其他載具的一個管理的漏洞避免事件的一個再次的發生另外台鐵吊車場的事故台鐵吊車場的事故2026年"},{"start":391.021,"end":404.427,"text":"一月到三月已經發生了五件如果我們從2023年來看它是逐年的一個上升顯示目前軌道安全啊已經出現重大讓旅客疑慮的一個狀態那"},{"start":406.688,"end":430.702,"text":"調查的重點當然有吊車的路徑、設定人員的操作程序或者是吊車人員相關的引導以及通訊方式的相關作業的分工規範還有廠站的號誌維修管理等等那現在我們看到這種吊車事故頻繁發生的可能因素有沒有進一步的改善建議"},{"start":432.336,"end":441.046,"text":"這也不是現在才發生啊2023年就6件啊2024年8件啊2025年10件啊今年1月到3月已經5件了來 請簡單說明一下"},{"start":445.403,"end":474.355,"text":"包委 去年的1月是七堵的吊車事故那4月是花蓮的吊車事故那麼現在這個調查的主要的重點在他們人員的作業分工跟風險評估相關作業那我們也提出落實的要落實SOP以及列車停止運轉的相關的一個建議那未來我們現在還在調查中有兩件我們未來會把它併在一起提出安全的分析"},{"start":475.135,"end":488.012,"text":"必須要提出明確的安全改善的建議以及事故的一個真相的分析另外我們對軌道運輸記錄器它的完善比例其實非常的低其實"},{"start":489.321,"end":514.061,"text":"直接來說它並沒有在當時即使會影響運輸的安全但是啊它會間接的影響後續的這樣一個軌道運輸的安全那我們的這樣的軌道交通的記錄器啊其實它的問題就是說它普遍的記錄不足資料標準不一甚至有缺失的這樣一個狀況那記錄裝置啊這樣的一個"},{"start":519.545,"end":547.444,"text":"運輸的紀錄器他的這個裝置最重要的功能就是要提供平日軌道列車他的營運狀態的一個檢視或者是辨識潛在的一個風險那或者是由事故發生之後我們藉由這一些紀錄的資料來協助事故的調查分析造勢的原因以及還原事故的經過"},{"start":549.225,"end":562.221,"text":"但是我們必須要了解這樣的一個運輸的記錄器要妥善的保存而且針對這樣的一個安全管理異常的監測或是維修檢討甚至是教育訓練事故的預防"},{"start":567.725,"end":577.977,"text":"他都有明顯的一個功用啊能夠改善提升運輸的安全那這個部分針對目前這種不足的狀況來我們應安會有什麼這樣具體的建議"},{"start":583.219,"end":596.442,"text":"我們在太魯閣事故這個案子的調查中我們對鐵道局有提出要建立必要的參數比如說抗撞毀的國內法規鐵道局也有提出這個不是國內的法規我們必須要參考國際的標準而且要將列車記錄的這樣的一個參數以及"},{"start":607.571,"end":612.876,"text":"抗撞毀的這樣一個殘存的一個能力也必須要納入相關的這樣的一個鐵路車輛技術標準的一個規範之中"},{"start":624.364,"end":646.555,"text":"主委這種行車運輸的軌道運輸的紀錄是非常重要的在目前是明顯的不足那我們針對相關的營運的狀況運輸的安全造勢的原因在日後的處理方面都有出現很大的缺失這個主委必須要明顯的去督促相關的軌道負責的單位"},{"start":650.262,"end":672.088,"text":"是現在鐵道局有根據我們的建議他有有把1067mm的軌距的鐵道車輛的技術規範他們有有在草擬一個草案那這個現在在複審程序好這個我也會來繼續督促這個軌道的安全相關的運輸的安全都是運安會在"},{"start":674.449,"end":682.576,"text":"不管是事故的調查或者是日後的這樣的一個建議裡面啊 預安會都要扮演很重要的角色是是 以上好 謝謝委員 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:55:20.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:55:22.040000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請一下林主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T10:55:22.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:55:23.104000+08:00","text":"我們請林主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T10:55:23.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T10:55:30.086000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:55:30.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:55:30.486000+08:00","text":"主委你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:55:30.947000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:56:19.699000+08:00","text":"有關於運安會的成立，是我在交通委員會一個很重要的推動目標，也終於在2019年8月正式掛牌成立，當初不管是組織法或者運輸事故的調查法我都有提案，也參與了整個討論，所以剛才提到杉林溪遊園車的事故，當然它有它的一個啟動標準，我想主委也清楚，在這樣一個啟動標準之下，不管是3人死亡或死傷10人以上，或者是有重大社會影響，就必須啟動這樣的調查。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:56:26.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:05.519000+08:00","text":"杉林溪遊園車是屬於甲類大客車，甲類大客車主委也清楚，就是前輪中心跟後輪中心的距離是4公尺以上，它的重量也非常重，17噸以上，大概就是坊間的客運公車，之所以啟動調查標準，就是由於園區的道路問題、車輛監理問題，或是園區安全的交通機制問題，它涉及整體運輸安全上的疑慮，所以啟動相關調查。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:09.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:22.527000+08:00","text":"整個調查的狀況要有初期報告以及中期的事實資料報告，最後才會有明年9月的調查報告出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:22.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:26.868000+08:00","text":"4月8號已經有初步的報告出來，初步的報告請主委簡單說明一下。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:30.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:39.043000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在正在對車輛進行測試的檢視、人員訪談以及資料蒐集的相關作業中。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:39.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:42.086000+08:00","text":"那初步報告出來了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:42.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:45.329000+08:00","text":"初步報告已經在4月8號發布了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:45.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:45.909000+08:00","text":"對，簡單的內容是什麼？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:45.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:46.089000+08:00","text":"說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:46.089000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T10:57:50.835000+08:00","text":"請組長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T10:57:50.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:58:08.705000+08:00","text":"報告委員，基本上我們初步報告的內容就是涵蓋一些很基本的資料，包含運作的業者、車輛基本資料、當時的天氣條件，還有車輛損害情形、人員受傷情形，大概是以上簡單的一些資料搜集。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:58:09.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:58:48.271000+08:00","text":"好，就我記得，這次杉林溪遊園車所發生的事故，跟之前宜蘭武荖坑綠博的電動小火車造成的失事狀況及標準也不太一樣，其實都呈現出一個重要的問題，就是在園區之內並不是一般道路，所以它不用申請車牌，這樣的甲類大客車、非常大的一個客車，它並不是公路局管轄。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:58:48.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:59:00.680000+08:00","text":"第二，就器材樣態，它是交通載具，但並不是應實施安全檢查的遊樂設施，它也不是觀光署管轄。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:59:02.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:59:28.556000+08:00","text":"我們看到填報項目，它也不屬於考核填報的項目，未填報不列入缺失，所展現出來的就是，地方政府也沒有填報，目前的管理模式，大多都是業者自行管理，這樣會有很大的安全運輸的疑慮，主委說明一下。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T10:59:34.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T10:59:48.075000+08:00","text":"確實是這樣子，現在對整個車輛的維護管理跟監理，還有駕駛員操作資格認定、道路設計等等，這些我們目前也正一一作業在檢查中。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T10:59:50.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:00:17.591000+08:00","text":"這個問題，其實我們看到在2月26號的時候，觀光署有發文召集業者以及地方政府，在3月19日舉辦遊樂園區遊園車管理委託研究案審查會議，就在開會前8天發生嚴重事故，針對管理缺失問題，你們初步也還沒有改善建議，對不對？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:00:17.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:00:17.751000+08:00","text":"說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T11:00:17.751000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T11:00:22.392000+08:00","text":"我請公路調查組組長說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"日組長智揖","start":"2026-04-20T11:00:22.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:00:42.376000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個案子3月發生之後，我們在3月有召開一個組織會議，因為我們是參與式調查，邀請公路局、觀光署這些單位來參與，在那個會議當中，我們已經有跟觀光署初步了解這個事故的樣態，觀光署也是滿正面積極的來應對這個問題。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:00:44.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:01:10.408000+08:00","text":"好，現在只是針對發生事故的樣態，請觀光署一起進行相關討論，但是未來園區內的道路以及相關車輛，不管是設計、養護或是管理規定上面都必須要引入公路局的專業意見，這不只是觀光署的問題而已，公路局的意見也非常重要。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:01:11.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:01:31.720000+08:00","text":"我們看到目前是有明顯的制度性漏洞，除了遊園車，運安會也必須建議交通部，或者是交通部也必須整體盤點其他相關載具的管理漏洞，避免類似事件再次發生。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:01:33.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:01:56.407000+08:00","text":"另外是臺鐵調車事故，2026年1月到3月已經發生5件，如果我們從2023年來看，件數是逐年上升，顯示目前軌道安全已經出現讓旅客疑慮的重大狀態。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:01:58.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:02:22.702000+08:00","text":"調查重點有調車路徑、設定人員操作程序、調車人員引導以及通訊方式等相關作業分工規範，還有場站號誌設備維修管理等等，現在我們看到調車事故頻繁發生的可能因素，有沒有進一步的改善建議？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:02:24.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:02:33.026000+08:00","text":"這也不是現在才發生，2023年就有6件、2024年8件、2025年10件，今年1月到3月已經5件了，請簡單說明一下。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T11:02:37.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:03:06.335000+08:00","text":"報告委員，去年1月是七堵的調車事故，4月是花蓮的調車事故，現在調查的主要重點在他們人員的作業分工及風險評估的相關作業，我們也提出要落實SOP以及列車停止運轉相關方面的建議，現在還在調查中的有2件，我們未來會把它併在一起提出安全分析。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:03:07.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:03:12.442000+08:00","text":"必須要提出明確的安全改善建議以及事故真相分析。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:03:12.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:03:31.469000+08:00","text":"另外，軌道運輸紀錄器的完善比例其實非常的低，直接來說，它並沒有在當下即時影響運輸安全，但是它會間接影響後續的軌道運輸安全。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:03:32.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:03:45.841000+08:00","text":"我們軌道運輸紀錄器的問題就是普遍紀錄不足，資料標準不一，甚至有缺失的狀況。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:03:51.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:04:49.977000+08:00","text":"運輸紀錄器裝置最重要的功能就是要提供平日軌道列車營運狀態檢視及辨識潛在風險，或者是事故發生之後，我們藉由這一些紀錄資料來協助事故調查、分析肇事原因，以及還原事故的經過，我們必須了解運輸紀錄器要妥善保存，而且它對安全管理、異常監測或是維修檢討，甚至是教育訓練、事故預防都有明顯的功用，能夠改善提升運輸安全，這個部分針對目前不足的狀況，運安會有什麼具體的建議？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T11:04:55.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:05:05.562000+08:00","text":"在太魯閣事故這個案子的調查中，我們對鐵道局有提出要建立必要的參數，譬如抗撞毀的國內法規，鐵道局也有……","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:05:05.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:05:24.856000+08:00","text":"這個不只是國內法規，我們必須要參考國際標準，而且列車紀錄參數以及抗撞毀殘存能力也必須要納入相關的鐵路車輛技術標準規範之中。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T11:05:24.856000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T11:05:36.364000+08:00","text":"對，沒有錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:05:36.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:05:41.387000+08:00","text":"主委，這種軌道運輸紀錄器是非常重要的。是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:05:42.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:05:58.535000+08:00","text":"目前是明顯不足，針對相關的營運狀況、運輸安全、肇事原因，在日後處理方面都有出現很大的缺失，主委必須要明確督促相關的軌道負責單位。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T11:06:02.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:06:17.246000+08:00","text":"現在鐵道局有根據我們的建議，針對1,067mm軌距的鐵道車輛技術規範，他們有在草擬一個草案，現在在復審程序。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"李委員昆澤","start":"2026-04-20T11:06:18.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:06:33.335000+08:00","text":"這個我也會來繼續督促，有關軌道安全、相關的運輸安全，不管是事故調查或者是日後的建議，運安會都扮演很重要的角色，以上。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林主任委員信得","start":"2026-04-20T11:06:34.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-20T11:06:34.576000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T11:06:35.076000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T11:06:39.647429+08:00","text":"謝謝李昆澤委員的質詢，也謝謝林主委。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-20T11:06:39.947429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-20T11:06:43.090286+08:00","text":"接下來請徐富癸委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}