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主席總署依照2024年在野黨所提出的財化法修正內容公布新的財力分級 台東從第五級被調升為第一級當時我和我們台東縣長饒慶林聽到都非常的錯愕"},{"start":98.621,"end":115.857,"text":"那我们台东这几年并没有挖到石油也没有挖到钻石没有挖到金矿可是呢我们财力一直都相当吃紧的这个台东却摇身一变变成和台北市一样的财力等级我们大家都感到非常的不可思议"},{"start":116.758,"end":136.133,"text":"那財化法呢這一次他只依照這個人口還有土地面積去試算分配的稅款沒有考慮到土地管理的成本也沒有納入縣市基礎建設還有這個歷史投資的發展情形所以導致這個整個這個財力分級的結果呢"},{"start":138.527,"end":159.525,"text":"就是說跟我們的現實狀況有非常嚴重的落差台東的地形狹長從北到南總共有176公里但是我們在這176公里當中我們只有一家的區域醫院而已也就是我們的台東馬街台東我們沒有高鐵"},{"start":160.626,"end":183.891,"text":"沒有捷運也沒有高速公路但是我們有最多的颱風還有地震以及土石流所以不論是在醫療 交通還有教育等等還有所有的基礎建設上我們台東其實都遠遠不及其他西部的縣市更別說我們跟台北是把它畫上等號了"},{"start":185.081,"end":210.054,"text":"現在被列為跟台北市同樣的財力對台東來說我們既吃緊又是一個很荒謬的狀況在我們台東財力被迫調為第一級之後支應政策計畫的自籌經費大幅的提升我們來看一下以衛福部、交通部這九個計畫為例社會安全網、身心障礙者服務"},{"start":210.854,"end":225.48,"text":"以及育嬰長照改善人行道安全提升這個生活圈道路等等這是我們所有民眾直接最有感的這個最直接的這個政策那麼在財化法之前呢台東縣"},{"start":226.34,"end":241.909,"text":"只要自籌負擔2.4億元但是在財化法之後呢自籌款暴增到14.7億元整整增加了12億之多那以台東的財政狀況根本就無力負擔那我們再看在上個月的3月25號呢"},{"start":245.191,"end":271.042,"text":"特别就是武汉庄瑞雄委员也安排了我们饶庆宁县长针对了这九项计划拜会了卫福部 交通部那也非常感谢池崇良部长还有陈世凯部长协助我们台东来解决这个困境所以今天本席在这里在针对台东的治水经费还有民生用水的经费来特别请托各位帮忙我想在这边举几个例子"},{"start":272.342,"end":287.031,"text":"在去年山陀兒颱風期間我們台東太馬里溪水暴增京豐鄉一度緊急撤村那如果沒有及時的應變我們搞不好會跟花蓮馬灘一樣真的很不敢想像"},{"start":288.032,"end":311.546,"text":"而且我們再來看這個太平溪的狀況太平溪是縣管河川那在這個影響的範圍它不會只有台東市而已它還包括了卑南鄉那在去年7月當那次颱風入侵青台的時候太平溪的水位我們去看其實已經逼近整個這個堤防的高度了那整體情勢也相當的危急"},{"start":313.647,"end":330.214,"text":"所以在不久前呢我和饒靜妮縣長有特別到現場去關心整個疏菌的進度目前我們已經清除了61萬立方公尺的沙石那經費也花了1.5億元那是這個"},{"start":333.796,"end":352.376,"text":"我想這些都是救命錢而且是非常需要中央的協助那我們在這個台東治水的相關建設上不管是這個蓄水防洪或者是排水各項的基礎設施都遠遠不及台北市"},{"start":353.217,"end":370.337,"text":"那但是在財化法修正之後我們財力被活生生的跟台北市畫上等號之後呢台東在這個治水相關的這些計畫當中竟然拿到中央補助是零一毛錢都沒有那這是非常不合理的情形"},{"start":371.906,"end":396.06,"text":"我們再看一下這張是達仁鄉我們的新興社部落他們為了爭取自來水鹽管整整努力了9年雖然後來有獲得水利署2500萬元的補助可是工程卻一再的流標前後高達了8次在歷經種種的困難之下我們"},{"start":399.762,"end":409.979,"text":"才终于完成了这个部分的问题那我们也再多举一个例子我们看到来到这个泰马里的这个多良龙部落"},{"start":411.224,"end":435.777,"text":"過去這裡並沒有穩定的水可以使用那因為條件它不符這個沿管申請的規定只能依賴簡易自來水的系統那這些簡易自來水的系統不管是這個設施建置的前後甚至這個後續的這些維運都需要政府來持續投入這個經費的協助"},{"start":438.188,"end":458.693,"text":"所以我們回到這個名山用水的整體情況來看台北市的自來水普及率高達99.83%幾乎是百分百了那幾乎全面覆蓋反觀我們台東只有83%點多是在全國縣市裡面是倒數第三名"},{"start":460.453,"end":486.049,"text":"那像這個自來水鹽管或者是簡易自來水補助在台北市根本就不會出現這樣的需求所以對台東來說卻是最基本也是最關鍵的民生支持我相信我們台東人跟台北人一樣都配自來都應該要配有這個自來水來使用"},{"start":487.935,"end":505.56,"text":"那在這個治水跟民生用水的建設我們今天花很長時間我把那個整個脈絡都交代得很清楚在財化法之前台東只需要負擔一千多萬可是在財化法之後台東需要負擔的金額變成五億多"},{"start":506.38,"end":515.852,"text":"所以不論是治水 民生用水的經費我們台東都非常需要中央的協助所以今天特別在這裡 懇請院長幫幫忙因為這些建設對我們園鄉整個台東其實"},{"start":521.519,"end":536.598,"text":"都特別原鄉都是非常重要建設所以我們是不是可以依照這個中央對直轄縣市的政府的補助辦法的規定來把它列為原住民族重要建設計畫讓補助也都可以維持原來的比例"},{"start":537.611,"end":562.207,"text":"首先跟委員報告 依照現在今年這個現行的財化法中央的統籌分配稅款多給地方撥給地方4165億那以台東來看 台東今年的中央你說給台東多少208億去年是60億 前一年是60億所以這一年是增加了140億增加140億那為什麼會從第5 升為第1級"},{"start":566.874,"end":592.912,"text":"就在這裡因為財化法的計算就是剛剛委員提到的他用人口啦土地啦這樣來算沒有把土地的管理成本把人口的結構都算進去用這樣的來算會讓土地燎原浮擴的這個台東增加很多所以現在的財化法是不公平的院版提出的財化法大院等會來審查那就不會產生這樣的結果"},{"start":594.301,"end":608.459,"text":"但是我們現在今年必須依照現行的裁判法那在地方台東多了140億的中央統籌分配稅款的情況底下剛剛委員所說到的那個治水它是三年五億的經費一年大概1.7億"},{"start":609.921,"end":629.896,"text":"那供水也是幾千萬所以有些供水的計畫是台水在做的那如果同樣的條件一年增加140億的中央統籌分配稅款但是治水的一年的1.7億由地方來負擔我想是院長其實我了解知道您今天一定會這樣回答"},{"start":631.577,"end":650.154,"text":"唯一的答案這個回答我其實都有掌握好多可以預期但是我要提一下就是說其實在台東我們一個颱風來之後可能還沒處理完後面又好幾個颱風又接續一直來可能前面清了可能也有可能做白宮"},{"start":650.814,"end":676.173,"text":"但是我還要再提一個概念就是說台中整個我們縱觀整個醫療交通還有各項建設的這個還有的補助政策的推動其實不是說這一年多給我們一百多億我們可以立刻就迎頭趕上其他的縣市或者跟台北畫上等號因為我們是長年累積長年累積我們如果真的要量化你每年用這個一百多億你去給它算"},{"start":677.074,"end":693.183,"text":"加起來這幾十年的落後也是快要上百兆幾十兆上百兆的落後了所以我想以這個我想用整個的這個概念方向去看我還是希望就是說"},{"start":695.457,"end":713.207,"text":"院長我們不要只看部會提高的標準現在的裁劃法是不公平的我們要努力把它讓院版的裁劃法如果能夠實施就不會產生這樣的現象中央就會保留比較大的彈性跟能力來協助地方做均衡的發展"},{"start":713.547,"end":731.808,"text":"好 所以我希望既然有這個不公平的現象那我們在這個中央對直轄縣市的這個政府補助辦法的第三條它還有一個彈性就是不管是零幣性質或環保設施工程或者是原住民重要建設計畫以及這個專案"},{"start":735.091,"end":753.941,"text":"這個經行政院核准這邊有一個彈性空間那我希望既然是一個不公平的前提我就希望依據這個規定我們來給台東來開一個可以救命的彈性空間這個方向我們可不可以往這個方向來處理"},{"start":755.453,"end":782.216,"text":"這個我請主席長來說明中央是有一些調解的能力是 跟委員報告我們像今年的話115年我們就是原則上會保障就是說你各項補助包括一般性的補助包括統籌分配稅加起來三項不低於114年度所以這裡面你如果說你各項加起來低於114年度的總額度我們會再幫你補足"},{"start":783.817,"end":800.434,"text":"所以這個部分這是第一個那第二個原民的部分當然是有比較特殊考量但是問題就是說還是要看你自有裁員的一個能力這個部分來做一個斟酌所以究竟是不是能夠再特別給予補助就是會有一些條件的一個"},{"start":800.994,"end":804.338,"text":"我們每個部會都希望也非常感謝石崇洋部長跟我們的交通部長可以一起了解他們有些盤點"},{"start":824.358,"end":847.846,"text":"有協助我們跟縣府一起盤點那我想這樣的空間我們一起來努力那我另外還有兩個問題就是說那個我們組織長可以先請回接下來我們請那個衛福部然後經濟部長請留步衛福部長"},{"start":851.268,"end":864.065,"text":"1982年是政府這一年很特別是政府沒有告知蘭嶼島上居民來欺騙島嶼族人將近10萬桶的這個核廢料把它運送到蘭嶼去那後來呢"},{"start":865.427,"end":884.484,"text":"又这个蓝宇呢作为这个核废料储存地对于这个蓝宇居民的整个健康文化环境造成非常严重的影响破坏了他们在他们的这个传统生活方式跟环境我想这一段历史对于这个达物族人的伤害目前仍然在持续当中"},{"start":885.934,"end":905.228,"text":"雖然當時不是我們執政但是針對蘭嶼居民的健康問題政府是一體的所以政府本來就應該要重視而且我們要持續來負起這個責任並且提供協助但是我想在此之前我先請教院長從1982年到現在請問院長總共做過幾次健檢對"},{"start":910.933,"end":917.33,"text":"那我要查一下健保快易通好那沒關係那8年內這8年內或這近4年您做過幾次健檢"},{"start":921.104,"end":939.193,"text":"對起碼超過一次吧有有有但是我們政府在2018年間賴清德總統擔任行政院長的時候通過這個蘭嶼居民健康檢查服務只有一次性而已所以距離現在已經相隔8年了那在去年5月我在這裡提出質詢的時候院長當時有指示說"},{"start":944.256,"end":967.568,"text":"這是你說的啦齁那時候你當院長你說那個健檢健檢不能忽略那會責請相關單位設法支應經費立刻執行但是一年過去了齁我一直在這裡追蹤這個案件那這次健檢規劃的經費大概是9000萬元左右本席是很擔心啦說是不是因為總預算一直沒審啊所以蘭嶼居民的健檢一直都沒有好消息"},{"start":968.408,"end":977.56,"text":"所以到底是怎麼樣?沒有問題,它經費來源是核貨端基金來支應的那這個整個案子我們報告行政院應該很快就會核了"},{"start":1010.641,"end":1010.661,"text":"好"},{"start":1014.468,"end":1029.328,"text":"同樣一樣是去年五月初那本期在政政院長討論新建藍營醫院的事情那時候院長有講說之後土地的問題解決就編列相關經費然後完成新建"},{"start":1031.49,"end":1058.217,"text":"那新建藍營院的企劃不會在今年10月的時候目前這個國發會長達州目前大概就是用地的問題只有這個用地的問題那這個月在藍營招待公司會的時候新建營院的基地實施的時候真的不快是因為那藍營相找我們之前相找他們說你們是用架構第一的方式做一年這就30年了"},{"start":1061.999,"end":1084.258,"text":"那我想在這個目前新建的醫院已經在活發廢了那如果工地未能解決新建的藍營醫院的地方請建省讓我們沒有相關計費可以再進行綜合來解決組織組織組織的問題解決之後其他的一些經濟不適辦的不適辦事業的情況等等如果順利預計"},{"start":1091.752,"end":1092.233,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝卓院長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:07.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:08.040000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:08.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:12.344000+08:00","text":"麻煩請院長以及經濟部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:12.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:13.344000+08:00","text":"請卓院長、經濟部長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:13.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:14.344000+08:00","text":"其實主計長應該也要一起。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:12.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:12.364000+08:00","text":"請主計長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:28.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:36.333000+08:00","text":"等一下，主席，我問一下，因為剛剛我有觀察林德福委員質詢時，是等所有官員上臺才開始計時。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:36.333000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:42.593500+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:42.593500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:22:48.854000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:22:48.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:23:08.380000+08:00","text":"在今年1月主計總處依照2024年在野黨所提出的財劃法修正內容公布新的財力分級，臺東從第五級被調升為第一級，當時我和臺東縣長饒慶齡聽到都非常的錯愕！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:23:12.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:23:28.637000+08:00","text":"臺東這幾年並沒有挖到石油，也沒有挖到鑽石或金礦，可是財力一直都相當吃緊的臺東卻搖身一變，變成和臺北市一樣的財力等級，大家都感到非常的不可思議。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:23:32.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:23:56.852000+08:00","text":"這一次財劃法只依照人口還有土地面積去試算分配的稅款，沒有考慮到土地管理的成本，也沒有納入縣市基礎建設還有歷史投資的發展情形，所以導致財力分級的結果跟我們的現實狀況有非常嚴重的落差。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:23:57.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:24:36.871000+08:00","text":"臺東的地形狹長，從北到南總共有176公里，但是在這176公里當中只有1家的區域醫院而已，也就是我們的臺東馬偕，臺東沒有高鐵、捷運，也沒有高速公路，但是我們有最多的颱風、地震以及土石流，所以不論是在醫療、交通、教育還有所有的基礎建設上，我們臺東其實都遠遠不及其他西部的縣市，更別說把我們跟臺北市畫上等號了。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:24:38.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:24:55.210000+08:00","text":"現在被列為跟臺北市同樣的財力，對臺東來說是既吃緊又很荒謬的狀況，在臺東財力被迫調為第一級之後，支應政策計畫的自籌經費大幅地提升。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:24:55.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:25:32.628000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，以衛福部、交通部這9個計畫為例，社會安全網、身心障礙者服務，以及育嬰、長照、改善人行道安全、提升生活圈道路等等這些對於所有民眾是最有感、最直接的政策，在財劃法之前，臺東縣只要自籌負擔2.4億元；但是在財劃法之後，自籌款暴增到14.7億元，整整增加了12億之多，以臺東的財政狀況根本就無力負擔。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:25:33.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:26:00.820000+08:00","text":"在上個月3月25號，我和莊瑞雄委員也特別安排了與饒慶鈴縣長針對這9項計畫拜會衛福部、交通部，也非常感謝石崇良部長還有陳世凱部長，協助臺東解決這個困境，今天本席在這裡再針對臺東的治水經費還有民生用水的經費特別請託各位幫忙。","quality":0.53},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:26:02.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:26:19.071000+08:00","text":"我想在這邊舉幾個例子，去年山陀兒颱風期間，臺東太麻里溪水暴增，金峰鄉一度緊急撤村，如果沒有即時應變，我們搞不好跟花蓮馬太鞍一樣耶！","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:26:19.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:26:20.011000+08:00","text":"真的很不敢想像。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:26:21.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:26:44.526000+08:00","text":"我們再來看太平溪的狀況，太平溪是縣管河川，影響的範圍不會只有臺東市而已，還包括卑南鄉，去年7月丹娜絲颱風侵臺的時候，我們看到太平溪的水位其實已經逼近整個堤防的高度，整體情勢也相當危急。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:26:46.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:27:12.182000+08:00","text":"所以在不久前我和饒慶鈴縣長有特別到現場去關心整個疏濬的進度，目前我們已經清出了61萬立方公尺的沙石，經費也花了1.5億元，我想這些都是救命錢，而且非常需要中央的協助。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:27:13.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:27:39.833000+08:00","text":"在臺東治水的相關建設上，不管是蓄水防洪或者排水的各項基礎設施，都遠遠不及臺北市，但是在財劃法修正後，我們的財力被活生生地跟臺北市劃上等號之後，臺東在治水相關計畫當中拿到中央的補助竟然是零！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:27:40.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:27:43.317000+08:00","text":"一毛錢都沒有，這是非常不合理的情形。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:27:44.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:28:15.867000+08:00","text":"我們再看一下，這張是達仁鄉新興社部落，他們為了爭取自來水延管整整努力了9年，雖然後來有獲得水利署2,500萬元補助，可是工程卻一再流標，前後高達8次，歷經種種困難才終於解決了這部分的問題。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:28:17.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:28:48.757000+08:00","text":"我們再多舉一個例子，太麻里多良瀧部落，過去這裡並沒有穩定的水可以使用，因為條件不符延管申請的規定，只能依賴簡易自來水系統，而這些簡易自來水系統不管是設施之建置前後，甚至後續維運都需要政府持續投入經費協助。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:28:51.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:29:11.673000+08:00","text":"我們回到民生用水的整體情況來看，臺北市的自來水普及率高達99.83%，幾乎是百分百了、幾乎全面覆蓋；反觀臺東只有百分之八十三點多，在全國縣市裡面是倒數第3名、吊車尾。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:29:14.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:29:20.978000+08:00","text":"像自來水延管或者簡易自來水補助，在臺北市根本就不會出現這樣的需求啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:29:23.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:29:39.028000+08:00","text":"對臺東來說卻是最基本也最關鍵的民生支持，我相信我們臺東人跟臺北人一樣都應該配有自來水來使用吧！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:29:41.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:05.408000+08:00","text":"在治水跟民生用水的建設，我們今天花很長時間，我把那整個脈絡都交代得很清楚，在財劃法修正之前，臺東只需要負擔一千多萬，可是在財劃法修正之後，臺東需要負擔的金額變成五億多，因此不論治水或民生用水的經費，我們臺東都非常需要中央的協助。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:05.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:29.578000+08:00","text":"所以今天特別在這裡懇請院長幫幫忙，因為這些建設對我們原鄉和整個臺東，特別是原鄉，都是非常重要的建設，是不是可以依照「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法」的規定，把它列為原住民族重要建設計畫，讓補助都可以維持原來的比例？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:30.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:44.540000+08:00","text":"首先跟委員報告，依照現行的財劃法，中央的統籌分配稅款多撥給地方4,165億，以臺東來看，臺東今年的……","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:45.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:48.823000+08:00","text":"你說給臺東多少？208億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:48.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:49.223000+08:00","text":"去年是60……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:49.223000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:50.223000+08:00","text":"扣完之後應該是一百多。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:50.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:53.066000+08:00","text":"前一年是60億，所以這一年增加了140億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:53.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:30:55.207000+08:00","text":"為什麼會從第五級升為第一級？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:30:59.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:00.755000+08:00","text":"原因就在這裡。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:00.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:18.627000+08:00","text":"因為財劃法的計算就是剛剛委員提到的，它用人口、土地這樣來算，沒有把土地的管理成本和人口的結構都算進去，用這樣的方法來算會讓幅員遼闊的臺東增加很多。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:18.627000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:20.048000+08:00","text":"所以這個版本的計算方式對我們臺東來說是不公平也是有問題的。","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:20.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:21.409000+08:00","text":"所以現在的財劃法是不公平的。是！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:22.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:29.905000+08:00","text":"如果行政院提出的財劃法修正草案大院趕快來審查，就不會產生這樣的結果，但是今年必須按照現行的財劃法。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:30.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:47.504000+08:00","text":"在地方，臺東多了140億中央統籌分配稅款的情況底下，剛剛委員所說到的治水是3年5億的經費，一年大概1.7億，供水也是幾千萬，甚至有些供水計畫是台水在做的。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:48.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:31:58.633000+08:00","text":"如果同樣的條件，一年增加140億的中央統籌分配稅款，但是治水的一年1.7億由地方來負擔……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:31:59.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:32:02.876000+08:00","text":"院長，其實我瞭解，知道您今天一定會這樣回答……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:32:04.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:32:05.638000+08:00","text":"唯一的答案！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:32:05.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:32:09.081000+08:00","text":"這個回答其實我都有掌握、都可以預期。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:32:09.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:32:23.134000+08:00","text":"但是我要提一下，其實臺東一個颱風來了之後，可能都還沒清理完，後面又接續好幾個颱風一直來，前面清了也可能是做白工。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:32:24.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:32:42.288000+08:00","text":"我還要再提一個概念，就是綜觀臺東整個醫療、交通還有各項政策的補助和推動，不是一年多給我們一百多億，我們就可以立刻迎頭趕上其他的縣市，或者是跟臺北劃上等號。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:32:42.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:32:56.998000+08:00","text":"因為我們是長年累積，如果真的要量化，每年用這個一百多億去算，這幾十年加起來的落後也是快要幾十兆、上百兆了！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:32:57.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:33:12.099000+08:00","text":"所以用整個概念、方向去看，我還是希望院長不要只看部會提供的……","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:33:12.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:33:14.400000+08:00","text":"我要跟委員講的是，現在的財劃法是不公平的……是！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:33:14.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:33:26.187000+08:00","text":"我們如果努力讓院版的財劃法能夠實施，就不會產生這樣的現象，中央就會保留比較大的彈性和能力來協助地方做均衡的發展。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:33:28.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:34:06.921000+08:00","text":"既然有不公平的現象，在「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法」第三條還有一個彈性，就是具鄰避性質之環保設施工程、原住民族重要建設計畫，以及專案報經行政院核准的部分有一個彈性空間，既然前提不公平，我就希望依據這個規定，給臺東開一個可以救命的彈性空間，請問可不可以往這個方向來處理？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:34:08.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:34:09.854000+08:00","text":"這個部分我請主計長來說明。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:34:10.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:34:11.796000+08:00","text":"中央是有一些調節的能力。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-21T12:34:13.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:34:38.719000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，像今年（115年），我們原則上會保障，就是各項補助包括一般性補助款、統籌分配稅款……三項加起來不低114年度，如果各項加起來低於114年度的總額度，我們會再幫你補足，這是第一個。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-21T12:34:38.839000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:34:53.073000+08:00","text":"第二個，原民的部分當然有比較特殊的考量，但問題還是要看自有財源的能力，再針對這個部分來做斟酌，也就是說，究竟是不是能夠再特別給予補助，會根據一些條件來看。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2026-04-21T12:34:53.073000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:34:54.194000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分我們還是希望委員和院裡面支持整個財劃法的修正，這樣讓它更公平……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:34:54.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:35:22.580000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝，我們也非常感謝石崇良部長跟我們交通部長可以一起了解，然後他們有先盤點，協助我們跟縣府一起盤點，我想這樣的空間我們一起來努力。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:35:23.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:35:37.625000+08:00","text":"我另外還有兩個問題，主計長可以先請回，接下來請衛福部長，經濟部長請留步。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:35:44.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:36:32.724000+08:00","text":"1982年這一年很特別，是政府沒有告知蘭嶼島上居民、欺騙達悟族人，把將近10萬桶的核廢料運送到蘭嶼，後來蘭嶼作為核廢料貯存地，對於蘭嶼居民整個健康、文化、環境造成非常嚴重影響，破壞了他們的傳統生活方式跟環境，我想這一段歷史對於達悟族人的傷害目前仍然在持續當中，雖然當時不是我們執政，但是針對蘭嶼居民的健康問題，政府是一體的，所以政府本來就應該要重視，而且要持續負起這個責任，並且提供協助。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:36:33.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:36:38.228000+08:00","text":"但是在此之前我先請教院長，從1982年到現在，請問院長總共做過幾次健檢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:36:44.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:36:45.357000+08:00","text":"我要查一下健保快易通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:36:45.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:36:46.319000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:36:47.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:36:50.330000+08:00","text":"這8年內或這近4年，您做過幾次健檢？我嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:36:54.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:36:56.305000+08:00","text":"對，起碼超過1次吧？有。有？好。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:36:57.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:37:09.312000+08:00","text":"但是我們政府在2018年間，賴清德總統擔任行政院長的時候，通過蘭嶼居民健康檢查服務，只有一次性而已，所以距離現在已經相隔8年了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:37:10.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:37:44.072000+08:00","text":"去年5月我在這裡提出質詢的時候，院長當時有指示，這是你說的啦，那時候你當院長，你說健檢不能忽略，會責請相關單位設法支應經費，立刻執行；但是1年過去了，我一直在這裡追蹤這個案件，這次健檢規劃的經費大概是9,000萬元左右，本席是很擔心，是不是因為總預算一直沒審，所以蘭嶼居民的健檢一直都沒有好消息，到底是怎麼樣？","quality":0.993},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:37:44.072000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:37:45.072000+08:00","text":"請部長說明一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-21T12:37:44.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:37:50.540000+08:00","text":"沒有問題，它經費來源是核後端基金來支應的，這整個案子我們報到行政院了，應該很快就會核了。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:37:50.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:37:56.694667+08:00","text":"好，所以在核定之後要進行規劃跟宣導前置作業，這前置作業至少需要兩個月以上，我想請教院長，行政院到底什麼時候可以核定、什麼時候可以啟動作業？","quality":0.016},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:37:56.694667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:38:02.849333+08:00","text":"上個月已經報到行政院來了，我們會比照離島偏鄉原住民健康檢查的方式，針對島上的居民以及相關貯存場的工作人員五千三百多位編列9,121億的預算，馬上就會來核定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:38:02.849333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:38:09.004000+08:00","text":"馬上就來核定？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:38:09.004000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:38:15.158667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:38:15.158667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:38:21.313333+08:00","text":"是9,121萬。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:38:21.313333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:38:27.468000+08:00","text":"好，這是好消息，馬上就可以來執行。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:38:27.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:38:42.308000+08:00","text":"同樣是去年5月的時候，本席在這裡跟院長討論興建蘭嶼醫院的事情，那時候院長有表示，如果土地的問題解決就編列相關經費、完成興建。","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:38:45.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:10.817000+08:00","text":"興建蘭嶼醫院的計畫衛福部在去年10月的時候如期提出，國發會正在審查當中，目前大概就是用地的問題，只有一個用地的問題，這個月在蘭嶼有召開公聽會，整個興建醫院的基地其實是這一塊私有地，蘭嶼鄉長吳清美鄉長表示，不論是用價購還是以地易地的方式都會盡力來促成，因為這個30坪而已嘛。","quality":0.407},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:15.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:26.769000+08:00","text":"我想請教院長，目前興建蘭嶼醫院計畫已經在國發會了，如果用地問題解決，這個興建蘭嶼醫院的計畫行政院到底有沒有相關經費可以在今年啟動計畫，也就是開始規劃，還有價購土地？","quality":0.368},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:27.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:37.258000+08:00","text":"我們共同來解決土地取得的問題，解決之後，其他一些興辦事業計畫等等如果順利，預計116年度看看能不能把它編進去預算。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:44.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:44.752000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員瑩","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:44.752000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:45.752000+08:00","text":"好，這樣很清楚，也感謝院長。謝謝。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:44.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:45.233000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員，謝謝卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:45.733000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:39:56.875857+08:00","text":"報告院會，「115年度中央政府總預算案」之質詢均已詢答完畢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:39:57.175857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:40:12.033000+08:00","text":"一、115年度中央政府總預算案（含附屬單位預算及綜計表─營業及非營業部分），交財政委員會依分配表及日程分送各委員會審查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:40:12.333000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:40:21.475857+08:00","text":"二、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復部分予以書面答復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:40:21.775857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:40:27.490143+08:00","text":"三、已提出之書面質詢，尚未登載公報者，一律補登。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:40:27.790143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:40:32.933000+08:00","text":"另外，依協商結論，本次會議不處理臨時提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:40:33.233000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:40:38.375857+08:00","text":"報告院會，本次會議進行到此為止，現在散會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-21T12:40:38.675857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-21T12:40:39.818714+08:00","text":"散會（12時40分）","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}