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Tahovecahe等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(三)委員柯志恩等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(四)委員林俊憲等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(五)委員邱若華等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(六)委員王育敏等27 人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(七)委員張嘉郡等 20人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(八)委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(九)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十)委員翁曉玲等20人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十一)委員許宇甄等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十二)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十三)委員范雲等24人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十四)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十五)委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十六)委員徐巧芯等16人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十七)委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十八)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(十九)委員邱鎮軍等23人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(二十)委員張雅琳等18人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(二十一)委員張宏陸等21人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(二十二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「青年基本法草案」案。(二十三)委員王正旭等23人擬具「青年基本法草案」案。 \n【進行逐條審查】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:33:04 - 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地點本院勤賢樓101會議室 書席委員柯之恩委員等十三人 請教委員林佩祥委員一人 列席委員鄭振全委員等八人 列席人員教育部部長鄭英耀 率同有關人員 主席葛昭吉委員如今 報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1930.283,"end":1956.068,"text":"決定 議事錄確定二 教育部部長列席就全國中小學教師人力不足現況與具體因應對策進行專題報告並被質詢二 三 教育部部長國家科學及技術委員會衛生福利部列席就如何強化研究計畫之人體研究倫理把關機制以保障人權捍衛科研價值並避免類似台師大女族抽血違反研究倫理"},{"start":1957.128,"end":1980.849,"text":"自案件再次發生進行專題報告並被質詢4 教育部部長 行政院人事行政總處及行政院主計總處列席就9月9日運動部成立籌備情形與後續推動規劃進行專題報告並被質詢本次議程由委員柯志恩等18人提出質詢均經教育部部長鄭英耀國家科學及技術委員會副主任委員"},{"start":1981.209,"end":1982.609,"text":"好 請問各位委員上次獲益議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":2010.814,"end":2034.677,"text":"好 沒有 那我們議事錄確定今天議程是繼續審查青年基本法草案相關的草案共18案委員黃婕等17人擬拒青年基本法草案委員林楚英等21人委員林一景等22人委員吳思瑤等47人委員陳培宇等17人委員范雲等16人委員"},{"start":2035.838,"end":2059.868,"text":"陳秀寶等21人委員吳佩義等24人委員王美惠等17人委員郭玉琴等18人委員林月琴等19人委員葛如君等19人委員李昆城等19人委員魯明哲等17人委員陳廷飛等16人委員葉元芝等20人委員林德福等20人委員羅廷偉等16人"},{"start":2061.468,"end":2085.956,"text":"二 我們審查青年基本法草案相關草案共23案第一案是行政院函請審議青年基本法草案第二是委員吳麗華等18人擬拒青年基本法草案委員柯之恩等19人委員林俊憲等19人委員邱若驊等18人委員王玉敏等27人委員張家俊等20人"},{"start":2088.359,"end":2111.112,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等18人委員萬美玲等16人委員翁曉玲等20人委員徐宇貞等19人委員洪孟楷等16人委員范雲等24人委員鄭天才等18人委員王宏威等17人委員徐巧欣等16人委員楊瓊英等19人委員蔡奕宇等17人"},{"start":2112.293,"end":2131.007,"text":"委員邱振軍等23人委員張雅玲等18人委員張宏祿等21人台灣民眾黨黨團以及委員王振旭等23人拟據青年基本法草案今天要進行逐條審查我們首先來介紹在場的委員范雲委員吳麗華委員吳思瑤委員林月琴委員"},{"start":2141.912,"end":2165.091,"text":"郭鈺晴委員陳秀寶委員張雅玲委員柯志恩委員劉書斌委員葛如君 昭偉萬美玲委員好那我們來介紹與會的官員有教育部部長鄭英耀部長"},{"start":2169.181,"end":2195.784,"text":"教育部青年發展署陳雪玉署長我們教育部相關的官員因為上次尋答都介紹過我們就不用再介紹我們有看到法務部汪南君參事勞動部勞動力發展署陳昌邦主任秘書經濟部中小級新創企業署林碧玉副署長"},{"start":2200.601,"end":2226.158,"text":"內政部國土署住宅發展組張玉欣專門委員財政部負稅署陳惠啟副署長衛生福利部綜合規劃司林千元副司長環境部綜合規劃司鄭祖壽技術師"},{"start":2229.409,"end":2253.891,"text":"國家發展委員會社會發展處張富林處長文化部綜合規劃司陳怡靜副司長經管會綜合規劃處梁青洲專門委員速發部數位產業署邱繼賢兼任記政國科會"},{"start":2256.229,"end":2280.004,"text":"科教發展及國際合作處公濟康副處長外交部公眾外交協調會張敬旺參事行政院人權及轉型正義處謝敏芬參議行政院人事行政總處主編人力處曾永芳專門委員"},{"start":2282.461,"end":2304.938,"text":"行政院主席總處公務預算處黃子漢專門委員交通部綜合規劃司陳韻如專門委員好我們今天與會的官員相當的多喔因為我們今年基本法牽涉到相當多的這個部會好那我們"},{"start":2306.465,"end":2327.384,"text":"本案已於114年3月13日詢答完畢新增行政院函請審議等23個提案版本我們就不再進行詢答並入本次共同審查請問有無提案委員要進行提案說明"},{"start":2329.825,"end":2337.871,"text":"如果沒有 我們因為這次有新增行政院審議的版本我們請主管機關進行簡單的說明兩分鐘主席 各位委員"},{"start":2352.406,"end":2368.679,"text":"感謝教文會對青年基本法訂定的一個關心我們知道青年是促進社會進步經濟繁榮及科技創新的關鍵動力那麼在2013年形成青年之"},{"start":2370.326,"end":2380.075,"text":"諮詢委員會陳前院長也裁示應該要針對青年相關權益以專華保障教育部也根據這個決議積極審慎研議為協助青年自我實現及保障青年權益"},{"start":2388.997,"end":2413.819,"text":"並培育青年成為健康堅韌的世界公民以致力於社會永續發展我們在經過從去年一一三年三月四號開始啟動三月五號一系列的迄今將近一年半的時間感謝這期間這一個我們各位委員的一個指導以及來自於社會大眾跟地方縣市政府的一些這一個"},{"start":2416.416,"end":2430.815,"text":"這個指教那我們這一次的一個法令總共包含28條有五大重點第一是定義青年年齡為18歲到35歲第二是保障青年各種權益全面"},{"start":2432.557,"end":2445.915,"text":"全面向的一個照顧青年第三是各級政府建立青年事務行政體系第四是規範每四年擬定青年政策白皮書第五行政院及地方政府設置青年事務發展匯報"},{"start":2447.577,"end":2471.509,"text":"做以上報告也請各位委員給我們指導希望各位能夠給予支持讓我們今年這次的青年基本法能夠順利通過能夠全面的來支持年輕人在整個從這個升學就業結婚生子育兒到創業還有公民參與等等 謝謝"},{"start":2479.261,"end":2498.235,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝部長的口頭說明那委員如果有臨時提案我們也請於上午10點30分前提出處理提案時如果提案委員及聯署委員均不在場原例就不予處理好 我們現在就來審查青年基本法草案的相關草案進行逐條審查並進行討論與協商主席請問一下"},{"start":2503.258,"end":2523.377,"text":"請問需要大體討論嗎我剛剛就有詢問了我有看你們你們沒有人舉手在官員在那個部長口頭報告之前我就有說請問有提案委員要進行提案說明提案說明跟現在的大體討論是不一樣的你剛才主席你剛才有自己說了喔"},{"start":2524.358,"end":2533.485,"text":"妳剛才是問說有沒有要提案說明但是現在妳我覺得妳應該那我還沒有下去討論妳就現在先我現在程序還沒有走完啊對不對"},{"start":2535.919,"end":2553.416,"text":"我應該是下去主持這個主條審查的時候你在提出你要討論的方式嘛 對不對我還在宣告這個程序啊那這樣子 謝謝因為妳剛剛已經說要進入到主條討論所以我才想說是不是應該有一個大題討論在前面我當然要做詢問 謝謝"},{"start":2557.734,"end":2569.713,"text":"那我們現在進行逐條審查並進行討論與協商討論時如果有新增修正動議就請議事人員宣讀那我們就來移動位置我們請官員就座"},{"start":2615.236,"end":2635.109,"text":"青年基本法採訪行政院提案法案名稱青年基本法委員林德夫等提案法案名稱青年發展基本法委員黃潔等提案法案名稱三十九案法案名稱均同行政院提案行政院提案公一條會推動嗎"},{"start":2636.434,"end":2660.912,"text":"新年發展和護青年群一起專研 協助青年自我實現享有幸福生活 增進青年參與及履行健全民主社會公民事責任促進國家社會社會健全民主社會公民事責任 促進國家社會社會健全民主社會公民事責任 促進國家社會社會健全民主社會公民事責任 促進國家社會社會健全民主社會公民事責任 促進國家社會健全民主社會公民事責任 促進國家社會健全民主社會公民事責任 促進國家社會公民事責任 促進國家社會公民事責任 促進國家社會公民事責任 促進國家社會公民事�"},{"start":2663.875,"end":2679.165,"text":"民主靈感提案第一條會否以新的制度實現暴躁侵略和社會抗爭這個項目包括新的程度社會決策民主競爭在政治 政治 社會文化等層面之階級成為特質競爭的合法合法內部問題案"},{"start":2679.565,"end":2706.722,"text":"討論及申請青年生涯品質臺上青年集團全面推進青年參與對抗失誤的決策並推力確立國家青年發展基本政策及施政方針建立共同民族社會關係特殊金融法青年失誤度及法律推特規定成立試驗方法之規定委員會簽訂人體案第1條會給臺上青年經濟事業同胞的層面權益各層面權益"},{"start":2715.348,"end":2728.516,"text":"好 那我們現在就來進行逐條審查那剛剛有委員說要大體討論好 那請有哪位 劉淑冰嗎好 那劉淑冰委員"},{"start":2729.673,"end":2756.813,"text":"好 謝謝主席在主條就現在我們進行到是大體討論我們現在先把民眾黨的這部分的一個重點先跟大家來做一下說明第一個我們民眾黨這部分並沒有採取教育部作為一個主管機關而是因為青年他在就學就業跟社福住宅養育子女方面這些問題都不是單一的部會尤其是只是由教育部來就能夠主責的"},{"start":2757.734,"end":2765.74,"text":"因此民眾黨是認為教育部作為一個主管機關是有從國家的教育上面去做說教的意味在但是我們的主張是以國發會為主管機關注意到是國發會為主管機關因為它本身就有作為管制考核的功能也負責人力資源跟人才政策民眾黨它認為它更適合作為本法的一個主管機關"},{"start":2785.794,"end":2805.112,"text":"第二個部分是民眾黨應用基本法常見的限期檢討的法規這個機制把三種的民間進步改革的議題納入到本法當中分別是18歲公民權要修訂而且是在公佈之後施行本法"},{"start":2806.253,"end":2829.64,"text":"兩年之內要修正總統跟總統副總統選舉罷免法以及公職人員選舉罷免法把它納入到公民權就等於說是在現在的公民投票法當中的18歲的公民投票權的一個行使把它變為一個政府的義務來進行另外的最反歧視立法呢也利用本法來去做制定因為"},{"start":2831.226,"end":2854.549,"text":"民進黨政府在去年提出來之後到現在都沒有下文這是青年非常重視的議題好那這一部分還另外社會註冊還有有沒有也利用基本法的這個限期的討論的規範呢還有資訊定期公開的機制來落實居住正義的這個概念第三個部分我們本黨民眾黨青年基本法的特點是要在二十"},{"start":2856.831,"end":2869.901,"text":"21個地方政府的青年諮詢組織呢那這個已經有大量青年人員進入的這個組織呢能夠熟悉政府運作因此民眾黨呢是藉助青年為主體的力量呢以發展青年"},{"start":2870.902,"end":2890.557,"text":"青年發展行動綱領為核心來作為一個依據那在專業資訊跟行政院的彙報的一個參與式民主還有立法院審議的民主這三個層次來做完善的一個治理體系那青年在這三個層次當中都有一定的角色跟"},{"start":2891.337,"end":2915.843,"text":"全線 那我們相信呢讓青年在主體上面成為一個決策過程當中的為自己來去發聲會比其他的這樣勝策的機制設計更能凸顯本法的一個特色那當然我們也希望說這些的這些我們強出來這些部分當然跟行政院版跟其他各黨有一些稍微稍微但是我們的主要的精神是相同的就是說我們希望在"},{"start":2916.383,"end":2933.481,"text":"等一下的審查當中能尊重差異的精神至少要以保留的方式如果差異的話請用保留的方式也就是民進黨委員唐誠教導有差異的時候就是做保留的方式所以後續的在召委如果召開協商甚至做院長協商的時候有些條文還能夠做後續的討論彙整"},{"start":2934.642,"end":2949.614,"text":"好 那希望也是說在討論當中本席的這個和諧的立場尤其是我們是教文委員會不要有太多的一個酸言酸語的情況之下我們秉持著在正常的一個議事程序的討論來讓這樣的青年基本法眾所期待的部分來讓它完成 謝謝"},{"start":2953.288,"end":2975.5,"text":"好那個劉書斌委員您剛剛這個的說明非常的詳盡可是這個應該就是所謂的提案說明那剛剛我詢問說有沒有提案說明那沒有人反應那您現在就是用大體討論的方式來闡述你的提案說明我想說你可能新來的我要跟您說一聲"},{"start":2976.52,"end":2992.29,"text":"那一部法從無到有也經過一個漫長而複雜的過程所以我今天要特別感謝青年團體的長期的倡議還有我們各位的共同參與才有今天有41個版本的法案"},{"start":2993.03,"end":3010.946,"text":"我想為了更好的國家我們每個立委善盡我們的天職本來就沒有好爭功搶勞的不過相當遺憾民眾黨在這之前召開了一場記者會在沒有任何的播種一顆種子的狀況之下就要歡喜收割大家的努力成果"},{"start":3013.111,"end":3040.29,"text":"我滿遺憾的是今天實際法案的推動過程其實青年基本法在民進黨跟國民黨委員各自提案給予行政機關壓力我們跟行政機關溝通之後產生了我們院版的條文我想這個也是今天大家共同的努力"},{"start":3041.05,"end":3060.043,"text":"那我想民眾黨的版本是直到今年六月才拿出來的那我想這個品質的狀況我們等一下討論的時候還可以再討論所以我想我們第一次有這個至少我進來立法院第六年我們嘉文委員會第一次有本委"},{"start":3060.883,"end":3080.919,"text":"在要審法案之前開記者會批評本委喔我覺得這滿遺憾的事情喔好 我先這樣子做一個說明喔那我想我們就直接來進入主條那我覺得這樣噴政治口水很沒有意義喔主席 我就做一個議事上面就回應一下我們也不噴口水 好嗎我就幾天再讓我回應一下好嗎 可以嗎謝謝"},{"start":3085.834,"end":3093.651,"text":"這一次的討論 排審這部分的確是在7月中旬的時候我們在開院會 我問了"},{"start":3095.148,"end":3116.401,"text":"李易錦委員 趙偉我就問他說下一個禮拜應該就是可以排青年基本法了他就說沒有啊我就說怎麼可能沒有院版都已經出來了喔我本來就有要排了我有義務要跟你說我什麼時候要排嗎沒有 你是說下下禮拜下下禮拜等等的下一次等等的對啊 我就打算要排可是因為我還在收集一些資料我覺得我們不要在這裡爭辯這個事情時間很把握好 我們現在進入主條我們現在進入主條"},{"start":3123.8,"end":3147.368,"text":"好 第一條名稱 法案名稱第一個法案名稱喔 法案名稱基本上只有林德福委員有寫青年發展基本法 跟大家不一樣那其他的委員都是青年基本法那這一條大家有沒有意見那沒有 那我們就名稱通過 青年基本法好 那我們再來進行第一條喔第一條"},{"start":3149.741,"end":3175.572,"text":"應該就是所謂的各種原則那我想行政院的文字也有涵蓋很多的面向那我想跟一些委員也有提到青年事務啊或除其他基本法有特別規定者適用本法之規定我想這個就是參考文化基本法的這個寫法那想說為了釐清本法跟其他法律的適用關係才這樣寫不曉得這點等一下看要不要請教一部說明一下那其他委員有沒有意見好那我們先等一下"},{"start":3178.413,"end":3193.421,"text":"我們先請吳斯亞委員張雅玲委員然後劉淑冰委員 郭宇晴委員葛如君 張偉 陳秀寶委員好 那我們就先請吳斯亞委員我們等一下最後再請教育部做說明"},{"start":3194.605,"end":3209.943,"text":"好 謝謝主席那其實四遙的版本是2023年12月13號就提出到今天是610天那我們就利用這610天我們擴大跟非常多青年團體的座談我們大概也超過50場次"},{"start":3211.545,"end":3237.577,"text":"跟教育部門或是行政院的磋商也至少有20場以上所以說我們即便個別委員有各自的文字像我當然我自己也提出了我的修正動議我有接觸要在政治經濟社會文化等領域的生活品質等等每一個委員都有自己期待想像更好的文字但是我想行政院的版本是中整了大家共同的意見"},{"start":3238.417,"end":3252.27,"text":"所以在青年發展維護青年權益尊嚴然後青年自我實現享有幸福生活更重要的是增進青年的參與履行健全民主社會公民之責任然後促進國家社會永續發展"},{"start":3253.711,"end":3278.658,"text":"我認為行政院的版本有中整大家很多委員因為目前有40個版本我也都逐一核對了所以我想我是代表我個人但是我想民進黨的委員我們也都討論過行政院的版本是一個中整性也非常的完整並沒有遺漏掉各自委員的意見所以希望大家可以支持我也願意調整我自己的版本然後來接受行政院的版本謝謝"},{"start":3279.963,"end":3296.085,"text":"好 那我們再來請張雅玲委員那接下來請葛如君 張偉不是啦 嘿張雅玲委員之後是劉淑冰然後郭瑜請陳秀葛如君 張偉然後最後陳秀寶 不好意思"},{"start":3296.886,"end":3319.244,"text":"好 那我的第一條文字的話我還是想要來爭取就是說因為現在的這個院版的部分它是推動跟維護可是我覺得有一個基本的保障是一個最基本的因為我希望它是可以建立一個至少的底線所以是為保障青年發展權利促進其參與決策我就是修改了為推動青年發展的這一句話變成是這樣子"},{"start":3320.325,"end":3331.822,"text":"那我也希望說可以爭取大家的支持讓這一個提案裡面有基本的保障也有一個更好的一個促進的一個動力這樣子 謝謝好 那我們接下來請"},{"start":3334.984,"end":3351.116,"text":"劉淑冰 劉淑冰委員好 謝謝昭偉本黨的這個政策意見當中呢跟院版當中有一些不一樣的東西就是特別要強調的是在落實到世代爭議的部分"},{"start":3351.556,"end":3371.462,"text":"那這個世代正義的部分是非常青年要強調的在於說目前所各種的一個要求都是現在的目前的決策者但是是最主要的決策的青年很少進入到這個部分去但是包括在環境的部分還有包括資源共享的這些部分這些部分資源分配等等的"},{"start":3372.122,"end":3395.715,"text":"如果都沒有注意把這個部分在基本法當中落實起來的話就會變成到我們現在所造成的後果到後來的情況之下由世世代代的我們的子孫拿去承接所以這邊我們也承接的說這個落實世代正義這個概念必須把它放下去那這個也必須澄清落實世代正義並不是無中生有的過去在氣候變遷因應法當中也強調了這個部分"},{"start":3397.737,"end":3413.959,"text":"甚至在國外間我們可以看到是有女青年他們自己就到國會裡面去到國際線去抗議去到說氣候變遷這個問題包括現在的化石燃料太多的這種情況造成的這種極端的二氧化碳溫室氣體排生的問題"},{"start":3414.58,"end":3442.332,"text":"所以這邊當國際性都變成了我們的心裡也都知道這麼是重要的事情都變得引以為榜樣這個情況我們台灣更不能尤其是我們的排碳的問題更是在全世界前名列前20名之中特別更是要重視到所以我們要堅持說落實世代正義我們希望能夠跟大家做一個做一個把意見提出來看看等一下後面是怎麼一個發展 謝謝好 我們接下來請郭育晴委員"},{"start":3451.235,"end":3468.107,"text":"在這邊雖然我自己有自己的版本但是我非常支持這個院版特別把維護青年的尊嚴顯進立法的一個目的大法官釋字372號跟603號其實也都特別指出人性的尊嚴是憲法保障的一個非常重要的核心價值"},{"start":3468.948,"end":3492.773,"text":"那青年其實也是社會的參與者喔不只是被動的接受政策的一個對象我想這個把這一塊有特別寫進我們的這個第一條的這個立法目的當中喔那之後其實後續的一些措施其實才有更多的一個方向喔那也讓青年能夠感受到國家對他們的重視跟信任在這邊其實我echo一下就是非常支持原版喔好 以上好"},{"start":3495.474,"end":3499.81,"text":"那我們最後請沒有 我們再來請耿如君 昭緯再來最後陳秀寶"},{"start":3500.745,"end":3525.353,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想第一條是希望建議能夠參採有諸多的委員提案版本包括我本席以及柯之恩委員 萬美玲委員 黃孟凱委員等等我們一起連署的提案版本裡面有提到要促進青年在政治 經濟 社會 文化與數位科技等層面"},{"start":3526.013,"end":3548.898,"text":"因為其實現在這個整個科技的發展台灣的定調 定位其實跟科技的整合非常的高我們台灣的青年跟世界的青年其實在科技 在數位科技方面應該是可以有非常非常大的一個示範跟躍進所以也希望有機會的話是不是有機會可以參財"},{"start":3549.838,"end":3579.157,"text":"我們提到的數位科技的這個版本那可不可以能夠待會可以請教育部回應一下那有機會的話現場整合一個版本把一些我們的部分條文的文字把它放進去謝謝好那我們請陳秀巴委員謝謝主席青年基本法的核心價值主要就是為了我們下一代打造適合發展的環境包含保障青年權益促進青年發展提升青年公共參與改善青年生活品質等等"},{"start":3579.677,"end":3603.059,"text":"那促進青年的自我實現而且實踐青年主流化這個願景我們台灣受少子化的影響其實青年人數也逐漸的下降那需要有一部整合青年政策的目標及推動完整的這個相關的法規並且是可以從中央到地方同一時間來執行那我秀寶的版本是在113年10月18號我們第二個會期的時候就提出了"},{"start":3603.419,"end":3622.085,"text":"那這個當中呢其實因為時事變化非常的迅速我們也一直在接收相關的青年團體他們有一些意見而且也不停的隨著時事在修正那我想修一部法尤其是要保障青年的這個基本法是應該相當的謹慎而且是符合貼切青年的需求"},{"start":3622.865,"end":3650.226,"text":"所以說召委現在排審我想也是因為相關各單位的意見都進來了之後我們一起來整納我自己的版本其實跟院版是有一點點不太相同我這邊尊重我們院版的文字我想因為我們為青年打造一個這樣子的環境這樣子的發展的空間是大家都一致的所以這邊我尊重院版的文字 以上好 我們再請萬美玲委員"},{"start":3651.397,"end":3665.656,"text":"好 謝謝召委我想院版跟我們各委員的版本今天可以來做討論然後看我們找出一個就是最好的一個版本來但是我有幾個我想特別把它提出來今天當我們要去討論這個青年基本法的時候"},{"start":3666.357,"end":3692.382,"text":"第一個呢當然我呼籲一下剛剛葛如君委員提的當然我們這個青年基本法草案裡面可能要包含的面向會相當的多能不能全部涵蓋的就是100分那我們盡量來努力不過剛剛提到這個數位科技的部分我是覺得大家待會可以看一下是不是怎麼樣來做一個調整不過我想第一個呢我們所討論的這些相關的條文裡面青年政策應該要必須能夠跨部會的來協力"},{"start":3693.442,"end":3720.678,"text":"因為過去我們看到不管是在創業貸款就業輔導或是青年參與公共事務這個部分可能都會分散在不同的部會各做各的缺乏整合那這一次既然我們要做這個青年基本法的這個條文的這個審查我想是不是我們應該來看到是將來要落實在為可執行的一個面向那才不會變成說將來這個條文修了它變成一紙空文很難去執行或落實這個部分很重要"},{"start":3721.358,"end":3739.206,"text":"第二個我們要能夠真正去保障七年發展的一個權利我想現在七年其實很辛苦面臨三高一低壓力也就是高失業率 高物價 高房價但低薪資等等這都是我們必須將來為它解決的但是怎麼樣在我們修完這些法條之後"},{"start":3740.106,"end":3760.342,"text":"能夠真正去落實去保障這也是我想我們今天等下審查的時候要注意的那最後一個我特別提到就是我們這個相關的青年政策可能要去注意到我們的成鄉跟弱勢的一個差距因為我們知道偏鄉青年或者勞動階層的青年其實在資源取得各方面跟我們可能在都市的同齡的青年比較來講是比較辛苦的"},{"start":3761.883,"end":3780.512,"text":"所以我想將來在我們的這個數位落差教育資源文化參與還有很多的公共事務的一個參與度上我們要有更明確的一些平衡跟幫忙協助的一個措施在裡面所以以上 謝謝好 那我們等一下請先要請林佩祥委員再來柯志恩委員"},{"start":3791.378,"end":3798.463,"text":"謝謝趙偉針對這個青年基本法其實數位科技這一塊是未來的趨勢而且更重要的是未來青年如何去問問題"},{"start":3799.904,"end":3822.693,"text":"而不是去只是去回答問題會是我認為在新年基本法裡面我們未來在教育上面各方面來講是很重要的一塊以前我們需要寫程式那現在變成說當AI已經進步到到自己可以generate code的時候那我們就應該去想辦法在我們新年基本法裡面把這個面向把它放進去把這個傾向把它放進去這樣才會對我們未來的青年具有一定的競爭力"},{"start":3823.473,"end":3833.65,"text":"尤其是说我们旁边日本韩国这些先进国家的时候如果我们没有把把这个方向放进去的话未来对我们的青年对我们的下一代是非常吃亏的以上"},{"start":3835.097,"end":3865.02,"text":"好 再来请柯志恩委员好 因为现在进入到第一条那我们也知道基本法就是一个上位大法嘛所以说行政院为什么会把各委员的版本浓缩到一个比较是大方向的部分这个我完全同意但是呢我觉得刚刚看到民众党刚刚所提到的他们提出了非常多这个年轻人其实非常在乎的一些问题那刚刚也包括这个各委员 万委员还有刚刚的我们那个配项委员也都特别提到的数位"},{"start":3865.76,"end":3881.631,"text":"那我也了解 除了數位科技之外還有包括這個資源的分配還有包括這個所謂的青年的這個居住正義等等這些東西完全寫上去的話可能跟這個行政院所希望能夠在第一條裡面結書的一些宗旨裡面有點太細節"},{"start":3883.112,"end":3901.696,"text":"但是我只提出一個比較大的為什麼要提出青年基本法其實很大的一個原因就是我們希望能夠落實世代的一個所謂的一個世代的一個正義嘛因為大家都認為不管我們提出什麼每個人都認為我們不管可能對於老人對於什麼部分年輕人這一塊很被大家所忽略"},{"start":3902.256,"end":3931.376,"text":"所以我觉得在这个行政的版本直接在行政的版本里面是否有机会在促进国家社会永续发展落实世代正义然后特别来制定本法能够落实世代正义这样一个基本把它放进去的话然后再结合行政的版本我觉得这样子的一个写法可能更能够凸显我们在制定这个法的时候对于不同世代里面我们希望它能够达足的这样一个目的可能会是比较完整的"},{"start":3933.176,"end":3953.345,"text":"好那我們吳思瑤委員再發言跟主席先建議一下程序上因為今天來關心的委員很多請那個教委會同仁去多找一些麥克風來大家使用一下好不好這個應該是可以克服一下不然傳來傳去這個是可以處理好那這樣子"},{"start":3954.125,"end":3978.574,"text":"我剛剛第一條也很仔細聆聽了大家的建議那不好意思因為事要版本是很早提也是最早提那其實在立法院都這樣我沒有別的意思就是說有哪些法案哪些委員先提那後面大家可能都會依據一些相關的意見其實都這樣我沒有別的意思可能都我們過去也會某個法案會先有提出來的委員大家的意見一起來做參考"},{"start":3979.674,"end":3994.907,"text":"所以說我剛剛已經說了因為我的條文裡頭有什麼政治 社會 經濟 文化等等那後面很多委員大概都也有沿用這個東西那我非常理解也非常謝謝大家一起來分享這個概念但我的建議是這樣"},{"start":3995.928,"end":4018.368,"text":"因為我自己都覺得我可以接受行政院的版本那我非常也同意那個葛如君委員因為您的版本有把前面我所提的政治 經濟 社會 文化然後再但是因為科技的面向啦科技的面向也很多元啦各位委員 抱歉科技的面向也很多元你就點一個數位科技"},{"start":4019.912,"end":4049.027,"text":"我的建議是第一個要嘛要不然如果要參採這個意見的話那科技就放科技也不需要數位科技因為22條有特別對數位科技有提一個是這樣但我可以放棄我的這個意見回到剛剛那個柯委員所說的把劉淑冰委員的意見然後跟行政院的版本就直接我們就取其精髓加上落實世代正義就好然後前面什麼政治經濟文化那個我都可以覺得不需要放啊"},{"start":4050.127,"end":4066.841,"text":"這樣大家會比較有共識這樣好不好把樹濱委員的落實世代爭議這個放進來就好其他的意見 大家的意見都很好但是為了精簡它是不是請行政院就接受這樣然後對 看大家的意見就往前推進要不然第一條就"},{"start":4068.953,"end":4093.61,"text":"好 那我們在葛如君 周偉還有 剛剛還有誰舉手沒有喔 那葛如君 周偉講完之後我們就請部長回答 好不好OK好 謝謝主席也非常感謝吳思耀委員的說明我想第一點文字上面有接近不代表我們就是參採誰的因為一些資訊跟想法大家有共識是好事不用一定說誰參考誰這是第一點"},{"start":4095.111,"end":4105.286,"text":"第二點我還是說明一下為什麼我們想要把數位科技放進來的原因是因為台灣現在的詐騙非常的嚴重我們教育的前線一直在講數位的素養"},{"start":4106.573,"end":4131.133,"text":"其實需要能夠被加強加上我們數位科技這一塊其實也是我們台灣非常重要的一個底蘊跟我們的核心競爭力所以我們才希望能夠從一個上位的基本法把這樣的一個關鍵字放進去但是我們也理解這個共識的凝聚需要一些大家的努力啦所以我想這個部分在關鍵字上我是不堅持"},{"start":4132.014,"end":4150.348,"text":"但是是不是待會先聽這個部會的意見那有機會的話也許我們就在文字的調整上面再及時的來做一些滾動式的修正有機會放就放那如果沒有機會的話可能條文變得太長我們也可能覺得可以來來予以調整這樣好謝謝好那我們就請部長做說明來"},{"start":4154.122,"end":4182.862,"text":"主席謝謝柯委員關心這個青年的一些權益怎麼樣去訂定第一條我想剛才柯委員也特別提得很清楚我們法條的訂定第一條通常它是比較是上位性的是一個宗旨 目標所以我們是不是比較那一些實際要落實的層面是在第二條以後我們再去討論那如果要"},{"start":4183.82,"end":4207.857,"text":"我想剛才柯委員跟劉委員特別提到落實世代正義我們今天所在討論本來都在落實世代正義但如果這幾個名詞要進去因為我們終極的目標還是在促進國家社會永續的發展所以我還是建議微調一下落實社會正義是不是放在促進國家這個前面因為"},{"start":4209.618,"end":4238.214,"text":"這個之前是增進青年參與執行健全民主社會公民是責任落實世代正義接著才促進國家社會永續發展Ending是不是用這樣比較好 謝謝好 那甘部長建議我看大家都點頭我們先文字上加上去好不好來哈囉"},{"start":4239.884,"end":4255.467,"text":"在責任的後面 對 落實世代正義那鬥點好 這樣那促進國家社會永續發展這樣有沒有意見葛如君 趙偉"},{"start":4257.421,"end":4279.921,"text":"我想現在有做這個落實世代正義我覺得有一個很好的一個修正了那在我們不管是吳士堯委員或者我們有多位委員都有提到的譬如說政治經濟社會文化或數位科技等等的這樣的一個中止性的一個文字有沒有機會如果沒有辦法放進去我們是不是放到說明欄位也彰顯我們對於數位"},{"start":4283.024,"end":4309.724,"text":"公民的不管是權力或素養上面的一個支持跟推動副議同意OK好那如果大家都沒有意見的話那我們就在立法說明加上就是促進青年這個政治啊經濟啊社會文化科技的這個參與好不好那這個就授權教育部來寫立法說明的文字好不好好那我們進入第二條囉"},{"start":4312.674,"end":4332.158,"text":"好那我們第一條就按照我們現在我們大家看到的我再念一次好了為推動青年發展逗號維護青年權益及尊嚴逗號協助青年自我實現頓好享受幸福生活逗號增加青年參與及旅行"},{"start":4332.538,"end":4357.854,"text":"健全 民主 社會公民之責任 都好落實世代正義 都好促進國家社會永續發展 都好特制定本法 居好好 OK 好那我們就修正通過 第二條第二條要發言的 來我們從後面好了啦 劉書斌先 然後葛如君然後 佩奕然後"},{"start":4360.089,"end":4385.564,"text":"姜雅玲有舉手沒有好那再來就吳思瑤吳麗華范芸OK那我們就先請劉淑冰好謝謝昭偉那第二條所涉及的是青年的對象還包括的是如果就院本來講的話還包括說對於其他法令關於青年的這個適用範圍那本黨這邊呢有不同的意見在於說本黨所說的"},{"start":4386.929,"end":4411.528,"text":"青年指的是16歲以上到35歲以下的國民最主要的一個理由是16歲代表是在高中以上就算了這個部分涉及到現實當中非常多的青年朋友他們在高中就開始了重視到青年組織跟社會公共議題的參與尤其是這個地方關係到的是"},{"start":4413.15,"end":4436.551,"text":"在政黨法當中已經明定了參與政黨的最低在於16歲以上就可以參與政黨那因此今年的黨員也都是很重要的一環這部分他們就可以參與中共政策的時候那應該在青年基本法當中也要落實到這樣子的一個實際青年參與關心公共政策的議題因此應該下修到從16歲開始進行"},{"start":4438.172,"end":4458.673,"text":"第二個部分在院版的後半部他提到說其他法令就青年年齡的範圍另有規定者從其規定這個部分其實是看起來有必要但是他因為在各個不同的範圍當中各個部會對他們青年的規定上面的有不同的年齡不過"},{"start":4460.695,"end":4484.823,"text":"不宜因為本法要通過一定的標準那就反正從其他的規定就好了但是本法是青年基本法的青年政策法規的體現年齡的定義是一個政策的核心其他法令的用語代表不只是包括是法律授權的法規命令連沒有法律授權的行政規則都可以排除年齡上面的一個定義"},{"start":4485.843,"end":4510.011,"text":"這是十分不妥當的可能缺乏法令的正當性因此本黨是利用到說以一個部分在我們的規定上是在28條不過我這邊就可以跟大家提出來這個討論部分因為它涉及到的是法規上面的適用我們的意思是說從優規定如果在其他的法令上面他們的規定是"},{"start":4511.191,"end":4526.692,"text":"優於目前在青年基本法草案上面的規定的話就是屬於就用概括性的但是在法令上面就這樣做規定所以只要在年齡範圍措施優惠程度都優於本法的規定才能夠"},{"start":4527.873,"end":4552.52,"text":"才能夠適用這樣才不但能維護到我們作為青年基本法這個定位也不用害怕說後續影響到各部會對青年措施的這樣子的一個實施另外我們也強調的是在於弱勢青年的部分為什麼需要強調弱勢青年呢因為青年本身在因為他大部分都在就學的階段或是剛剛進入到職場上面"},{"start":4554.681,"end":4567.829,"text":"這邊的部分它在經濟 社會 文化 族群 宗教 身心障礙 地域甚至還有其他地域都屬於不利地位的這個部分的青年都應該特別把它列出來的時候在青年基本法當中把它實現出來把它呈現出來"},{"start":4570.987,"end":4592.555,"text":"把呈現出來的情況呢這樣子呢這邊也是參考到有所法源的一個參考在在說社會福利基本法第三條跟第四條當中呢也有這樣子的一個意涵在裡面特別需要的青年基本法的目的就是應該把青年所遇到的問題要把它凸顯出來因此弱勢青年的這個定義特別的需求"},{"start":4593.055,"end":4617.427,"text":"那還有把這個道理還把說社會包容的一個學理納入不要把青年都當作是一個這個無知然後甚至是需要被照顧的樣子青年甚至在未來的情況之下我們都看到這個青年基本上修訂過程當中會看到說他們都要參與到有關於他們相關政策的一個擬定所以這部分民眾黨這邊是強調弱勢青年把它放入的一個重要性意義 謝謝我們再來請葛國軍召委"},{"start":4623.119,"end":4646.821,"text":"好 謝謝我想這個本席的提案版本有關青年的定義我們是希望是指18歲以上跟未滿45歲之人其實也是考量我國現行的政策跟法規那對於未滿12歲的兒童和12歲以上未滿18歲的少年其實有非常多的法令包含兒童以及少年福利以及權益保障法"},{"start":4647.701,"end":4669.474,"text":"當然民眾黨這裡提16歲因為我們也看一下其實15到16是可以有條件的打工16歲以上其實也可以去做相關的攻讀當然我覺得相關的討論是可以來討論的不過我本席的版本主要是說我們希望把青年延伸到所謂的45歲作為一個上限也希望能夠涵蓋更"},{"start":4671.095,"end":4696.738,"text":"完整的這個年齡層不要讓這一群其實是變成是被國家遺忘的這個所謂的弱世代強弱的弱那所以呢我們也就希望能夠涵蓋至少可以到45歲那其實有一個claim就是說有一個理由是也是科技發展那也謝謝剛剛有非常多位委員都呼應就是說其實醫療科技也是日新月異我們的平均餘命呢正在逐年的增長"},{"start":4698.48,"end":4716.179,"text":"我們先看國際的趨勢1900年的時候全球平均的年齡壽命大概只有在三十幾歲到了2000年的時候我們平均年齡大概已經到六七十歲我們可以看到在1970年我們台灣的平均壽命是69.1歲"},{"start":4717.58,"end":4729.819,"text":"但是到了2025年我們的平均餘命是到81.5歲也就是55年來我們的平均餘命是增加了12年那其實我們的國發會有推估"},{"start":4731.549,"end":4756.949,"text":"2050年人口的平均餘命達到85歲台灣我個人覺得這是低估的因為目前科技趨勢的專家都預估在一個2030年左右一個新世代的平均餘命是有可能增加幅度非常廣的甚至現在剛出生的新生兒都有可能可以活到大家不要太驚訝可能可以活到250到500歲"},{"start":4759.891,"end":4779.224,"text":"當然這個是科技專家的樂觀預估可是從一個理性的科技預估來看我們都有可能是假巴黎活到120都是有可能的所以依據這個角度來看其實所謂青年的定義也應該照比例來拉伸"},{"start":4780.265,"end":4800.382,"text":"所以我想我們的法律應該是要制定面向未來而不是面向現在所以我們就算把現在的平均餘命80多歲來看其實我們把18到45歲納入進來也是非常合理的同時也根據勞動部的統計"},{"start":4803.164,"end":4828.674,"text":"113年非學生青年勞工初次就業的平均年齡就已經是21.8歲了那我們現在大家結婚年齡也較晚工作的年齡也較晚納入學歷的條件大學學歷的青年勞工初次就業的年齡是22.8歲所以青年勞工初次就業的年齡正在逐年增加所以等於是如果我們把這個門檻設得太低"},{"start":4830.635,"end":4858.426,"text":"我們社會照顧青年的年份就會變得非常的短那我們呢 受僱勞工的平均年齡喔受僱勞工的平均年齡喔是40.4歲也就是幾乎所有的青壯的勞工就已經是40歲囉已經超過了我們行政院版本的這個35歲喔那所以它後面的這5年它是一個青壯還在成長的這個過程"},{"start":4860.047,"end":4884.153,"text":"馬上就已經被我們忽略了所以我們總體也幫忙計算25歲到44歲的勞工占全體勞工還有全體輕壯的成長人口是57.7%那其實他們肩負了我們成長的非常重要的一個階段那衛福部其實自己也把31到45歲的年齡列為三民製族群什麼意思"},{"start":4884.733,"end":4899.209,"text":"就是他們的心理健康經常受到經濟負擔角色衝突緊張跟工作狀態的耗損所以我要再一次的強調這不是一個政治的攻防這是一個真正要照顧社會"},{"start":4899.87,"end":4919.893,"text":"理性而且面向未來平均餘命正在延長而且大家的成長時間正在延後發展這樣的一個社會軌跡來看所以我們希望我們行政院還有我們的政府單位以及諸多的委員希望能夠支持我們這裡所表達的強烈的意見"},{"start":4920.914,"end":4939.375,"text":"希望能夠將這個上限的門檻提高到45歲也就是45歲以下的民眾都應該納入青年基本法再次強調平均愚民正在提升已經要到85甚至未來95甚至破百 賈巴黎都是有可能的所以45歲在未來"},{"start":4941.297,"end":4965.826,"text":"就是一個未來青年的年紀所以希望我們可以來考慮讓大家讓這樣子的一個年齡層的權益跟福利可以受到國家的保障 謝謝好 謝謝那我們再來請吳斯堯委員然後吳斯堯委員之後再來陳秀巴委員不是 貝易委員 不好意思美玲因為妳比較晚舉手妳是最後 不好意思"},{"start":4968.019,"end":4990.045,"text":"我快速說明一下謝謝主席其實在年齡的部分確實我們在討論的過程我們參照了很多的不同國家的經驗每一個國家甚至聯合國聯合國的規定青年的定義是15到24歲我們也參照世界第一個定定的芬蘭芬蘭青年基本法是29歲以下"},{"start":4991.857,"end":5016.811,"text":"那韓國是第二個世界上訂定的國家他們是19到34歲所以我們都有參照了其他的國際經驗那我也簡單跟大家說明一下我也核對了今天我們40個版本裡頭最多的版本我自己就是18到35歲那有19個版本的委員不分黨派19個版本的委員的意見是18到35歲"},{"start":5019.312,"end":5038.388,"text":"那剛剛如葛如君委員所說的有六個委員是18到45歲那有兩位委員是18到34歲包括佩儀委員這樣那也有柯智恩 王韻敏跟張家俊三位委員是18到40歲然後林德福委員是比較特別他是15到35歲"},{"start":5040.149,"end":5044.695,"text":"所以有幾個東西讓大家可以參照一下時間就是那個年齡是從18歲開始起算的時間是18還是劉淑冰委員的16或是林德福委員的15然後上線多數的委員19個版本是35歲"},{"start":5057.791,"end":5073.411,"text":"那第二多數的是45歲好 這都可以討論那我只是以不同的國家的經驗每一個國家他在政策的配套上他對於青年政策的適用者他可能要去參採多數的法令所規範的對象為大宗"},{"start":5076.074,"end":5100.521,"text":"當然我們有排除條款如果是在經濟部國發會的創業就業或是勞動部的部分是視其其他條文所規定那我們還是要很中整的看到台灣中華民國政府長期以來的多數法令 多數法規還有現在政府各層級的青年參與的團體的代表的年齡是落在什麼樣子的年齡那個Range"},{"start":5101.781,"end":5121.988,"text":"所以我的版本我最後就是用18到35歲那最主要的原因是現在現行的行政院的親資會青年諮詢代表的年齡就是18到35歲而各個地方政府多數的青年諮詢的代表的那個單位的年齡也都是18到35歲"},{"start":5123.789,"end":5150.455,"text":"所以跟大家說明一下國際的經驗也好國內的法令的適用跟現在的青年參與的團體的主要大宗的年齡是18到35所以是光這一題我們跟青年團體真的討論很久的分析一下所以終整我個人還是希望是我的主張是18到35歲那這好像也應當是行政院的意見那大家參考看看好 謝謝好 我們再來請吳佩儀委員"},{"start":5154.901,"end":5174.607,"text":"第二條關於青年的定義我的版本是15以上34歲以下那我覺得在這幾年的期間我們其實看到在青年公共事務討論的實務上從課綱開始到這一次包括校園裡面高中以下手機的管理其實有關於公共政策的青年討論18歲"},{"start":5177.869,"end":5201.33,"text":"15歲以上這個高中生的期間把它納入我覺得有其必要尤其在這一次的青年基本法是民間團體倡議多年那民間團體最主要的倡議也就在於青年的定義剛剛有講到說因為其他的法規已經有這個15到17能夠去涵蓋但是事實上我們這一次之所以要訂定青年基本法"},{"start":5201.73,"end":5230.554,"text":"就是希望對青年能夠更加的重視而且在實務上面各個部會提出相關的福利以及協助有其必要例如我們的勞動基準法勞動法規的同工定義在15歲以上所以15歲以上的青年執訓跟青年就業相關的這個政策其實勞動部就是有提出來支持的所以我還是主張今天是青年紀念法的修法既然在青年的權益的保障上面"},{"start":5230.874,"end":5248.545,"text":"是這麼重要的一個里程碑在青年的年齡的訂定上面我還是主張從15歲以上到34歲以下這是我的版本我希望這個法規的提出是對於我們青年參與公共事務在實質上是可以達到真正的幫助謝謝好 謝謝我們再來請吳麗華委員"},{"start":5254.008,"end":5282.35,"text":"謝謝主席關於第二條青年的定義我是認為放諸國際當然關於年齡的劃分它並沒有一個一致的標準關乎的就是這個國家社會它的文化心理層面等等以我們原住民族群來講因為剛才有談到平均愚民光是以原住民來講我們先不談我們跟全體國民的差距"},{"start":5283.251,"end":5308.024,"text":"光是山地原住民跟平地原住民差距就相當大那麼山地原住民的男性女性平地原住民的男性女性差距也非常大大到什麼程度以山地原住民來講男性是67歲女性是76歲你看差距就非常大那平地原住民呢男性是71歲女性是79歲"},{"start":5309.485,"end":5324.872,"text":"所以其實跟整個國家社會不同族群這個年齡他到底什麼樣的階段要落在什麼樣的年紀我想這個沒有一成不變但是如果我縱觀來看我是支持院版"},{"start":5325.532,"end":5348.833,"text":"因為一般的原因就是因為在我們其他的法令裡面像那個兒少福利權益保障法他就已經講說他南瓜的族群是18歲以下所以如果我們今天有了一部青年基本法那從這個位置接上去我覺得在部會之間的各個法令之間應該是一個很好的連接那甚至是剛剛有提到行政院的那個親資會"},{"start":5350.154,"end":5374.326,"text":"那因為青年也是落在那邊然後更重要的是我有去算了一下18到這個35歲如果按照院版他到底在我們目前中華民國的人口裡面他佔多少的比例那我算出來是大概佔41%所以我覺得這個比例其實已經是算還不錯的一個範圍那當然他也有提到"},{"start":5375.086,"end":5400.868,"text":"我們每一個法都有它不同的服務對象那當然法律要另定之那包括我們現在社會上我們所談的大家很重視的十大傑出青年那其實年齡落在幾歲我覺得這個就如果能夠很一致的話就比較不會有爭議的一個空間那如果有不同的法令或不同的機構它有不同的一個服務對象那我看到"},{"start":5401.388,"end":5413.055,"text":"院版裡面也有提到就是可以用執法來另外規定那所以我基本上我的態度是可以接受院版 謝謝好 我們再來請范雲委員然後最後萬美玲 謝謝"},{"start":5419.668,"end":5447.574,"text":"這一題我們主要是在講這個法規所講的青年的定義關於年齡的部分我的版本跟Joy不一樣是18歲以上35歲以下但是我多了一句話是院版沒有的就是但其他法令另有規定者得向下延伸至15歲以上或向下延伸至45歲以下之人不知道這樣是不是能夠處理有些委員希望就是降到15歲"},{"start":5448.894,"end":5466.448,"text":"或者是往上的部分為什麼要這樣寫因為教育部這個沒有寫的時候教育部是其他法令就青年年齡之範圍另有規定者從其規定這個範圍就有可能無限大沒有天花板跟地板有些青年團你會擔心說如果還超過45歲"},{"start":5468.089,"end":5486.562,"text":"那可能就太長了所以覺得我的版本向下其他法令如果本來就有規定向下延伸到15向上延伸到45寫在法條裡面可能會有一點擴大但是就是又有一個限縮所以不知道就要不願意參考這是第一點那第二個就是"},{"start":5487.762,"end":5505.269,"text":"我的版本我發現大概有超過十個委員跟我一樣我們的青年的定義是寫人教育部這邊是寫國民為什麼我的版本是寫人因為兒少權法對兒少的定義那是權力為主因為兒少權法"},{"start":5505.749,"end":5533.144,"text":"老人福利法是福利為主對老人的定義都是人而不是國民所以我當時想說為了體系的一貫性所以譬如說像閒轉生他在台灣的交流學習等等就可能會是人才能夠有的所以這教育部是不是能夠說明一下為什麼跟兒少權法跟老人福利法不一樣要用國民而不是人那這裡如果用人會不會更好一點這是第二個意見"},{"start":5533.784,"end":5558.809,"text":"最後就是到15歲到18歲這個部分其實我也是想了很久因為聯合國的定義的確青年是從15歲開始我知道教育部這邊的考慮好像是為了避免跟兒少權法重複因為我們之前在詢答的時候也有討論過這題所以才從18歲開始可是有個意見就是兒少權法其實是以保護為主"},{"start":5560.149,"end":5585.317,"text":"所以對15歲到18歲的就業創業 居住 社會參與的這些發展性的權益就比較沒有我們青年基本法就比較有這個部分所以這部分我不會堅持因為我自己的版本是18到35但是有多一個框線上下如果最後大家是要願版的18到35的話我有一個附帶決議就是說教育部如何針對15歲到18歲"},{"start":5587.578,"end":5604.331,"text":"這邊有的權益能夠全面的盤點讓需要的這些15到18歲的人也能夠就是在本法通過之後能夠比較完整的規劃我想這些是不少青年或者是青少年團體關注的議題以上"},{"start":5607.722,"end":5637.242,"text":"好 謝謝我們再來請萬美玲委員好 謝謝召委我想我們都有看到行政院的版本跟我們很多位的委員的版本大概都是18到35不過今天這個年齡的上下限真的是可以好好來討論一下當然本席的版本是18歲以上到45歲主要是考量我們現在看到各項法律對於各年齡層的保障跟照顧我們希望能夠予以全面的涵蓋第一點我想我們現在現行的法制對於"},{"start":5638.102,"end":5666.775,"text":"未滿12歲的兒童跟12歲以上未滿18歲的少年我們定有兒童及少年福利與權益保障法也有兒童及少年未來教育發展帳戶條例等等的相關立法來保障那個年齡層的國民另外我們對於45歲以上的中高齡及高齡者我們也有中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法老人福利法等等的一個法律的制度"},{"start":5667.495,"end":5689.106,"text":"那唯獨我們看到只有在18歲到45歲之間的青年我們現在看到是沒有專屬的法規但是如果我們現在只有把它調整為35歲到45歲這中間叫青年那麼我想就沒有辦法去做一個全面的一個年齡層的照顧所以本系也參考了因為剛剛都有提到說像這個行政院的這個親資會"},{"start":5690.547,"end":5716.028,"text":"它就有這個界定是在18到35是青年不過本系也看到在我們農業發展條例施行細則第18條它所稱的青年講的就是18歲以上45歲以下還有我們看到青年創業貸款它當中所適用的年齡的標準也是在18歲到45歲所以也有很多不同的條例跟法則是採取在18歲到45歲的"},{"start":5718.03,"end":5734.133,"text":"所以最後我想剛才這個葛榮鈞委員其實也有拿出很多詳細的數字去提到我們現在不管是醫療科技的一個發達那我們的平均餘命真的是在逐漸的這個增長當中那再加上我們現在高等教育的普遍"},{"start":5734.634,"end":5753.939,"text":"青年踏入社會事實上是比較晚一點的所以在35歲到45歲這個年齡層正好是我們國家不管是經濟各方面的一個主力為了能夠全面去涵蓋不要讓哪一個年齡層當中我去漏掉所以我們對於這個青年的定義本席的版本就是18歲以上45歲以下以上"},{"start":5757.861,"end":5772.515,"text":"好那我們再來請那個羅廷偉委員因為劉書斌委員你是第一個發言的你是在第二條第一個發言的所以我們是不是等羅廷偉委員講完之後我們請教育部先回答然後再第二次發言好不好"},{"start":5774.394,"end":5789.365,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉我想大家對這個年齡大家都滿多的一個見解但是我也想提供一些我們算是青商青商的這些一個建議我們從青商裡面可以看到它是18到40"},{"start":5791.207,"end":5809,"text":"所以我覺得行政院版本18到35他的局限是有過於我覺得是受限到這樣子的一個年紀上那剛剛萬委員有提到18到45以下所以我覺得這個部分可以大家再多一點討論以上我想提供一個輕商這個部分給大家參考 謝謝"},{"start":5810.592,"end":5829.099,"text":"好 那第二條本席也有我也是建議按照院版18到35歲喔這個來通過 我是建議這樣啦當然這個理由是因為我們兒少全法其實有明定就是兒童跟少年就是只未滿18歲的人"},{"start":5831.96,"end":5851.406,"text":"之前那個行政院的那個青年諮詢委員會當中青年代表就是18到35啦那當然很多國際間的會議也都是這樣的定定那再來就是我跟范園委員比較不同的想法是我是寫國民啦那理由是因為青年事務我覺得本來就是具有普世人權的成分"},{"start":5851.986,"end":5881.073,"text":"那所以他的文化體驗也好 國際交流也好其實他國的青年到台灣自然一定要受到保障可是我們如果縱觀今天的這個法令的話有許多部分是屬於我國國民才得以享有的這個權利或得以參與的決策好像例如如果優惠我國國民的社會福利政策等等或提供青年公共事務的參與的機會等等所以我覺得如果寫國民還是比較OK一點以上是我的意見那我們請部長回答"},{"start":5883.68,"end":5897.885,"text":"好我署長好那這邊我來說明一下那也謝謝剛才委員就不同的一些範圍帶都有一些說明的部分好OK有嗎可以歌風可以大聲一點嗎"},{"start":5899.343,"end":5915.762,"text":"好的 這樣可以嗎好 對那針對這個年齡的部分確實就是說我們目前行政院的院勤制已經到第五屆了那整個年齡大概是18歲到35歲為範圍那在各國確實也有不同的一個狀況那聯合國45歲到24歲那芬蘭是29歲以下"},{"start":5920.427,"end":5943.161,"text":"韓國是19歲到34歲在我們國內帶目前也是有提到這個兒童跟少年福利權益的保障法這個部分大概就是在18歲以下我們在實際跟了解跟推動的過程當中也了解我們確實如委員剛才所提的有些部會或是有些青商或是說有些的"},{"start":5944.342,"end":5959.033,"text":"設定年齡範圍大概都有一些上下那我們是也考慮到說整個適用年齡確實是會有不同的實際需求但是如果說就這個基本法我們的一個適用範圍我們先做這個原則的一個"},{"start":5960.374,"end":5977.071,"text":"規範的話我們希望還是能夠有一些執行的彈性那現在那個院版其實但書就有規定了其他法律就青年年齡的範圍另有規定者從其規定那這部分我們認為也可以去兼顧到各界的意見跟需求那"},{"start":5977.711,"end":5998.285,"text":"在剛才有提到像說要到15歲的或是要到45歲的在相關的這個部分我們就是會有一個彈性在裡面所以我們這邊能夠希望還是能夠維持這個願盤的部分好 以上說明好 那劉淑冰委員第二次發言號葛如君 趙偉吳佩儀委員好好 謝謝趙偉"},{"start":6003.266,"end":6028.079,"text":"在本檔第二條的這個部分涉及到必須再強調一下這個弱勢青年弱勢青年弱勢青年在我們看到的是目前為什麼問題還是這麼多其實剛才有說到各縣市的都有了包括在中央都有了但是就是問題再多就在於說弱勢青年需要幫助的青年並沒有放到裡面去"},{"start":6028.999,"end":6049.258,"text":"好那這裡面呢我們看到的是這個青年的部分呢弱勢青年我們在在我們本黨的這個第六條當中就在決策機制當中第六條特有強調是說這個是一個他規定的是各種的參與機制的青年代表當中必須納入弱勢青年如果"},{"start":6050.639,"end":6074.185,"text":"還必須到這邊還是照過去的情況之下然後包括還有24條的第二項有規定各級政府制定辦法來去協助弱勢青年的情況這些都是要的另外我們還包括一個配套措施在每年國發會要彙整公開針對弱勢青年的問題延期的時候這些部分都強調的是如果你在現在在訂定"},{"start":6075.245,"end":6102.363,"text":"青年基本法沒有把這個弱勢青年把它拿出來特別去蓋鍋蓋鍋蓋鍋的辦法做一個規範的時候做一個抽象性的界定的時候那來了解弱勢青年他們困境的話呢那這樣子你要剛才所說的在第一條已經呈現到世代正義的資源分配還有對青年整體的部分呢其實是沒辦法真正的去落實因為你還是依照的過去的一個慣性"},{"start":6104.164,"end":6123.792,"text":"立法的來呈現出來這部分那另外的部分呢我必須要強調的是為什麼我們本黨在強調16歲因為現在剛才我也很高興說范宇委員他也有提到是說在現在的很多的公共事務的參與當中青年的部分在16歲都已經都已經有積極的參與了"},{"start":6124.932,"end":6139.908,"text":"那尤其是因為政黨法當中的青年黨員就是不是說青年黨員就是黨員就是從16歲以上就具備就可以加入黨員那你在參與到像各個政黨裡面都在我們在吸收心血啊那這個部分的時候就當他們給予合法的一個去保障他們相關的這個權益"},{"start":6144.893,"end":6159.988,"text":"那這邊就特別要去強調說應該在16歲這個部分在加拿大才呈現出跟過去的法規上面的一種甚至沒有這個基本法但是我們呈現出來是對呈現在這個基本法當中的一個重要的意義在從16歲到35歲謝謝"},{"start":6165.404,"end":6192.436,"text":"好 我們再來請耿如君召委然後再來是沛逸好 謝謝主席我還是要表達就是本席的版本是18歲起當然我們也尊重往下原因也是跟科技有關因為科技讓我們的青年有更早的機會去接觸這個世界跟成長的機會那至於這個上限我們還是希望是45歲或至少往上提升的原因我剛剛講了一些"},{"start":6193.496,"end":6218.887,"text":"年齡的成長我剛剛聽到大家有很多驚呼聲怕大家覺得我是在亂講我稍微念一下這個明確的消息這個中央社的報導谷歌的科學家就說了2032年以後AI可以讓人停止老化延年益壽到500歲這個是谷歌的科學家的計算"},{"start":6220.013,"end":6239.505,"text":"現在全球前三大AI服務的公司之一叫AnthropicAnthropic的執行長也在2024年的10月發表因為AI科技正在進入Bio Medical生物科技跟醫療所以接下來的這段時間人類壽命將會倍增到150歲"},{"start":6241.386,"end":6257.921,"text":"所以我在這裡特別把它唸出來的原因是因為我怕給大家一些誤會好像我們在講科幻小說這些都是事實 也是現實另外我們看到第十條有提到這個創業 青年的創業我們也看到相關的數據根據美國的統計"},{"start":6263.384,"end":6287.13,"text":"45歲創業才開始這個也是我們的相關的工具機的這個工會所做的一些分享跟報導所以如果我們要真正的照顧青年如果我們把時序限制的太前面其實會非常可惜那當然我們也理解部會的思維可能會覺得資源不夠人力不夠但是我們也看了行政院的版本"},{"start":6288.157,"end":6311.743,"text":"第十九條就有提到政府應該要積極的促進相關的公共參與等等其實就應該會有人力跟資源進來第二十條政府應該促進青年有關的非營利組織跟團體所以也會有一些外部的協助第二十三條各級政府因應青年事務需求建立相關的行政體系跟規劃"},{"start":6312.543,"end":6327.434,"text":"必然也會有資源的補足所以我現在念的都是院版喔第24條更重要各級政府應寬列青年發展經費所以也是有裁員的所以我在此要呼籲我們的部長 署長"},{"start":6329.315,"end":6346.873,"text":"不用因為說我把年齡層放寬了我們人不夠 錢不夠這個我們還是要看一個大局大勢那我們的法條 院版也會在資源上面去予以寬列這個是院版的法條第24條所以我希望我們的政府部會在討論這個年齡層的時候"},{"start":6348.775,"end":6369.468,"text":"不用局限在說好像資源人力上的不足我們的社會的進展是怎麼樣我們就應該在一個這樣的上位法制的框架去應對接下來五年十年甚至更長的時間我們好多的法條很可能二十年都沒有修所以我們這個法一旦定了很可能就要應對我們剛剛所聽到的2032年的年齡會持續飆漲"},{"start":6375.812,"end":6396.85,"text":"這是一個幸福的社會那我們讓這些青年世代的人國民能夠受到政府更好的照顧我想這不是任何政治的攻防我們的政府單位也不要因為說現在人力 現在的資源我們要看的是未來的人力 未來的資源我們這步伐就是要予以保障 謝謝"},{"start":6398.237,"end":6424.745,"text":"好我們再來請吳佩奕委員討論到這個年齡因為我的主張版本是15歲以上那剛剛這個第85的說明是說因為行政院親資會是18歲以上開始起算但是因為我們這一個青年基本法立法的說明目的當中其中一項很重要就是要整合中央跟地方政府機關的業務但是我們地方的青年局地方的親資會目前現行的"},{"start":6426.786,"end":6447.797,"text":"台中跟新北市都是以15歲以上就是納入青年的定義那全國第一個成立青年局的桃園市從104年開始對青年的定義就是16歲以上所以我會非常的擔心原先我們青年基本法的訂定是希望可以擴大以及更加的來支持青年"},{"start":6448.257,"end":6471.574,"text":"那你們現在如果這個法通過你的定義是從18歲起算會不會對於目前是以15歲就當作青年定義的這些地方縣市政府來說15到17歲的這個權益保障跟發展會不會反而被排擠到了呢就是說現在地方政府如果是18歲以上就納入他們青年的定義在青資會的服務範圍跟公共參與的範圍之內的話會不會因為法通過他就把"},{"start":6476.417,"end":6500.749,"text":"這個通通都變18歲以上起算了呢這一個我希望不要去影響到因為這樣反而會變成青年權益的倒退啊人家桃園本來104年開始16歲以上就算青年人家青年基本法通過會不會變成16歲以上不算了18歲以上才可以參與會不會變成這樣我希望在實務上我們一定要去注意這個青年基本法應該是要提供更多的支持"},{"start":6501.269,"end":6520.484,"text":"那如果是上限的話我自己個人是認為如果我們是18歲以上起算那你的上限要從35延伸到40或45我個人會擔心說這個在資源會不會排擠到更加年輕的這一個族群"},{"start":6520.964,"end":6550.504,"text":"因為如果你看40到45我也算是青年了那以我這個年齡層的跟18歲的青年他們所需要的支持顯然一定是不相同的那肯定每一個年齡層都需要政府來支持關懷跟輔導那其實是有其他的法律可以來支持我還是希望說青年計分法回歸到我們對青年這個族群因為過去兒少法只有權益的保障並沒有公共參與這很多部分需要這個法來提供支持"},{"start":6551.426,"end":6555.963,"text":"好 謝謝吳佩儀委員那麼接下來請郭玉琴委員再來范雲 再來吳思瑤 謝謝"},{"start":6561.299,"end":6586.304,"text":"好 這個部分其實我是贊成這個願板就是我們把那個年齡的部分是定義在這個18歲以上到35歲以下那另外就是剛剛針對這個民眾黨他們有特別提到這個弱勢青年的部分我想這個年齡應該就整個含瓜了弱勢的一個部分了啦不用特別再寫因為基本上這個基本法其實是尚未法"},{"start":6586.904,"end":6603.373,"text":"我們其實到現在為止討論到第二條是名詞的定義我想這個涵蓋年齡的部分一定也涵蓋所謂的弱勢的族群所以我是覺得不用在這邊話捨天竺在另外在後面其實還有很多的部分是可以討論以上好 再來請范議員"},{"start":6606.77,"end":6629.842,"text":"其實我的意見跟剛剛郭玉琴很像啦因為我剛剛研究了一下民眾黨的版本因為你說你這邊要定義弱勢青年是因為後面有很多地方出現可是我看你好像只有24條有出現耶那24條你是說針對弱勢青年要有特別的政策我覺得也許到那邊的時候再來定義弱勢要不然你的第六條強調要性別三分之一"},{"start":6630.302,"end":6655.219,"text":"那第八條又強調族群地域就變成就是說就像我們剛講青年本來就是弱勢經濟上的弱勢各方面那有些委員是用多元性等等我們就到具體的想要三分之一性別或者強調族群地域的時候到時候再個別來討論好了因為我看你只有影響你的24條那就不需要放在這個定義中你到24條的時候可以針對要"},{"start":6656.6,"end":6663.586,"text":"多元性 性別 族群 身障那個部分再具體來談以上好 那我們現在請吳思瑤委員這一題這一條大家討論了很久我個人中整很簡短的講如果18到35歲我還是認為18到35歲是最合宜的"},{"start":6682.743,"end":6697.545,"text":"那如果說選擇要向下延伸或向上向上到45歲我覺得那會排擠得太多的青年資源了所以往上不管到40或45我是真的覺得不宜 不宜 不宜"},{"start":6698.146,"end":6724.894,"text":"那如果向下要到16 15我覺得這讓行政部門想一下我們也想一下所以我個人覺得18到35是最合適的因為有19個版本都是這個主張往上是萬萬不宜往下是可以討論那主席因為這一題已經講很久還是我們保留最後再回來因為等一下看了很多條文大家可以更清楚知道這個條文照顧的面向到哪裡好不好 謝謝"},{"start":6726.65,"end":6748.823,"text":"好 那思瑤委員建議就保留 先保留啦讓我們最後再回來 大家想一下好不好 這樣速度繼續走下去再來我們進行第三條那我們第二條先暫保留第三條第三條是主管機關那主管機關有誰要發言"},{"start":6750.202,"end":6772.903,"text":"好 那我們再次從前面范芸 吳麗華 吳思瑤 郭雨晴 陳秀寶張雅玲 吳佩儀 劉淑冰 葛如君謝謝這條是關於主管機關啊萬美玲 不好意思等一下從那邊開始 下一回合好 下一回合從妳那兒開始妳剛剛往後面抱著"},{"start":6778.131,"end":6792.299,"text":"第三條是在講主管機關我原本的版本是中央希望有一個青年事務專責部會因為滿多青年團體都希望說要比現在青年署能夠有更好的層級資源 人力 預算等等"},{"start":6797.962,"end":6819.42,"text":"後來我詢問了教育部教育部是希望說中央由教育部作為主管機關配合27條院級的青年事務發展彙報地方也配合青年事務發展彙報以及25條的青年政策白皮書來達成青年團體們希望的這個部分但是我還是有個疑問希望待會教育部可以說明"},{"start":6820.08,"end":6844.193,"text":"因為大家還是會很擔心那在現行的架構下因為本來就有青年署嘛那是不是會增加足夠的人力預算等資源來統籌跨部會青年政策的規劃協調跟檢核我覺得就人力跟預算上是大家希望能夠增加的那教育部待會是不是可以說明一下你們目前這個新的規劃以回應外界的疑問以上"},{"start":6846.325,"end":6861.231,"text":"好 再來請吳麗華委員好 謝謝這一條主管機關我的想法是說因為目前在處理青年失誤的本來就是教育部的清發署但是如果說"},{"start":6862.211,"end":6885.809,"text":"我們在這部法裡面第二條會有所謂的青年的年齡段假設他的年齡段是到35歲所以在這個部分它擴大了層面而且也擴大很多部會的相關的業務因為在第二條也有提到就是令有規定的其實也都會在其他的法令規定"},{"start":6886.67,"end":6904.278,"text":"所以這個青年事務如果說在這樣的一個單一機關全責處理那我跟范雲委員的那個想法是一樣的就是我們必須要更明確的知道未來整個組織的發展人力它到底是怎麼樣的一個狀況"},{"start":6905.558,"end":6932.459,"text":"那目前是因為在法條中有看到院版說如果各目的事業主管機關推出就是那個跟法律相關的青年政策那這個部分也是希望說權責要很清楚讓各部會都能夠照顧到青年人在各部會的一個相關的權益所以這個部分的意見希望等一下教育部這邊能夠再說明更清楚 謝謝"},{"start":6935.267,"end":6960.815,"text":"好 我們再來請吳思瑤委員謝謝主席主管機關這一條恐怕也是要討論很久啦那我們在跟很多團體在討論的這一年多以來到底教育部能不能夠承擔這個重責大任或者是說有沒有比教育部更適合的單位現在有不同的主張分別是有人主張要行政院來做"},{"start":6961.875,"end":6983.871,"text":"但是如果行政院來做我反而會認為以行政院來做那反而沒有一個主管的部會我認為沒有辦法實質的去監督沒有辦法實質的去落實在一個統整性的因為我們很現實嘛我們在教育文化委員會我相信教育文化委員會最常質詢的是教育部"},{"start":6984.896,"end":7000.267,"text":"關心青年政策新發署也是大家這麼多年來都投入的所以說如果就監督的強度來講我覺得教育部也準備好來承擔這個責任的話它是一個相對是合宜的那如果你把它拉到行政院"},{"start":7001.067,"end":7019.468,"text":"反而你知道一個你真的很難有直接對應的部會講白就是這樣啦反而就空了啦就空中樓閣啦而現在行政院有親資會的功能來做一個統整性的青年意見的收容第二個後面的條文我們也可能會處理到一個青年匯報"},{"start":7020.749,"end":7043.971,"text":"所以青年匯報就像當初我們在做文化基本法的時候美玲委員是我們同一屆的文化基本法的時候也是用一個文化匯報能夠讓行政院來督導跨部會的業務所以說它有文化匯報的行政院的高度有青資會來中整設在行政院的青資會來中整青年意見不同團體的"},{"start":7044.972,"end":7067.702,"text":"的意見然後一個落實可以執行強而有力的部會主管部會教育部我認為這個是目前討論出來最好的方案至於民眾黨的版本說要國發會其實國發會的主體業務跟青年比較相關的就會落在青創的那一塊創投啊那一塊比較經濟層面的"},{"start":7069.423,"end":7083.169,"text":"但是我們剛剛在第一條的條文我們已經講到了對於政治經濟文化科技權利社會權駐居的權利都是更全面性的如果在國發會它跟青年業務的"},{"start":7084.75,"end":7103.813,"text":"的match真的相對就narrow了很多所以我還是認為最好的就是教育部然後大家不用擔心在行政院後面的條文有跨部會的文化會報是由行政院院長主持的還有現行的親資會來作為所有青年意見的"},{"start":7105.094,"end":7123.036,"text":"收集 參與我覺得這樣的制度設計是最好的那也建議主席如果這一題大家太不同意見我們還是保留後面再回來因為我相信每一個條文看過之後都有利於我們做出最終的決定好 謝謝那我們接下來請郭育晴委員"},{"start":7125.443,"end":7148.884,"text":"因為這個青年議題其實它橫跨了像是教育、勞動、文化甚至運動還有數位等等的不同的一個部會建議是不是也有一個所謂的專責的機關可以來集中這樣子的一個權責加快一些反應讓青年的政策在各個部會當中不要被稀釋或者是被延誤"},{"start":7149.665,"end":7169.655,"text":"那剛剛其實呼應一下這個社會委員他所講的喔因為這個行政院他有設置一個青年事務發展匯報那我想這個部分如果是可以當成所謂的專責機關作為幕僚那也可以參考這個轉型正義匯報啦就是到時候也會有這個專責的單位跟就是像這樣子的一個"},{"start":7170.876,"end":7193.023,"text":"一個機制那當然這個部分我沒有提版本但是我想等一下可以聽聽看大家的一些意見就是說因為它橫跨的部會它涉及的事務其實不會很多那到底是由誰來當主管機關等一下如果有一些共識最好沒有的話其實我們可以等一下回過頭來再來討論好 以上好 我們接下來請陳秀巴委員"},{"start":7194.799,"end":7219.096,"text":"謝謝主席這第三條的部分其實跟其他委員剛才的發言一樣本席原本是希望說青年署要獨立出來不管是在業務上在預算上都成為一個青年事務的一個專責單位而且當青年事務專責單位辦理相關的青年發展相關政策如果牽涉到其他主管機關的事項的時候應該由青年事務這個專責單位會商該主管機關來辦理"},{"start":7222.498,"end":7245.931,"text":"但是因為現在考量到行政院這個原文及編制目前是沒有將青年署獨立出來成為部會這一點我還是尊重也可以尊重我們院版的文字但是我想希望說等一下可以說明一下目前的青年署的編制是不是有足夠來支應青年事務的推動之後會不會再有調整"},{"start":7246.491,"end":7274.907,"text":"那青年署作為三期機關有沒有辦法去檢視其他目的事業主管機關辦理青年事務的成效那行政院這邊來統籌規劃青年的事務執行除了說有青年發展匯報之外那請發訴署長這邊你們在職務上在業務執行上的經驗來看應該怎麼做或怎麼補足我們才能消除這些青年團體所提出的這些疑慮等一下我希望說署長這邊可以說明一下好 以上好 接下來請雅玲委員"},{"start":7276.141,"end":7294.811,"text":"好 那這個部分針對於主管機關的部分我是建議是就是由教育部因為現在作為青年事務的專責機關就是在青年署那考量到未來要跟跨領域跨部會的一些合作的需求的話我覺得以現在最熟悉的部會來去執行會是比較有效率而且會比較能夠精準的"},{"start":7295.291,"end":7316.67,"text":"因為今天如果把他放到國發會我的擔心是這樣提供給大家參考就是說因為他可能並不是那麼熟悉這個相關的事務那他等於是他還要花相對多的時間然後甚至說他會不會有相對多的心力可以去做這件事情我覺得這會是一個大家要考量的部分那如果擔心這個青年署是不是沒有辦法做跨部會的話"},{"start":7318.231,"end":7337.233,"text":"因為在後面其實有提到一個青年匯報那我覺得是可以因為現在有些是半年到一年嘛那也許大家如果擔心的話我們可以提升這個強度頻率讓它更多次不過待會我還是要請教育部再去做一個青年署這邊做個說明因為大家還是concern就是跨部會這些協調人力"},{"start":7338.536,"end":7364.778,"text":"預算還是要做個清楚的說明讓大家比較安心那再來第二個部分是說我自己原本在第二第三項的裡面是有提一個要執行青年相關政策法規計劃及研究但這部分我不堅持如果在第26條我有提一個修正動議就是要求我們的政府應該要設立青年發展研究機構並且依法進行相關的研究調查如果這部分可以支持的話那這邊我就不堅持"},{"start":7366.059,"end":7394.294,"text":"那第三個部分就是說因為現在是條列了所有各該事業主管各目的事業主管機關相對的一些工作但是現在羅列下面卻缺乏了教育主管機關的選擇所以我這邊是有增加了教育部的相關的工作來去強化青年適性發展多元學習之精神那我這邊的建議是這樣子要嘛你就全部都寫出來要嘛你就要不要乾脆就像精簡的版本這樣子好 謝謝"},{"start":7395.615,"end":7421.689,"text":"好 我們接下來請吳佩麗委員我的版本跟行政院一樣主管機關是教育部不過我想剛剛大家也提到還有青年團體很擔心的就是會不會跟現行的狀況一樣因為如果涉及到這麼多跨部會的業務倘若這個未來教育部還是把青年的事務通通都交給清發署有沒有辦法去協調其他跨部會涉及到預算"},{"start":7422.89,"end":7449.918,"text":"人事相關的資源的整合會不會變成這樣這是大家最擔心所以我們會主張必須要有一個專責的機構雖然講到說有青年諮詢的匯報但是例如我們政府對性別平等非常的重視所以行政院除了性平會之外行政院的14個業務單位裡面是有性別平等處性平處就是作為性平會的幕僚單位"},{"start":7451.078,"end":7476.112,"text":"除了有諮詢意見的平台之外更重要的是幕僚單位誰去協調誰去聯繫誰去整合這一點還是希望燈會教育部要能夠提出說明否則我們會很擔心這一個法基本法如果流於形式那那麼就枉費了我們花費這麼多心思來去立定這個青年基本法的專法好我們再來請"},{"start":7479.486,"end":7484.087,"text":"剛才很高興有吳佩奕委員還有吳思瑤委員也提到了在青年基本法當中對於主管機關"},{"start":7499.355,"end":7515.078,"text":"如果還是用到教育部的時候就會出現到他沒有辦法做現在相關事務的這樣的一個整合那本黨這邊當然就是反對了也是看到這個問題就反對到以教育部作為主管機關那主要的原因有三第一個是"},{"start":7518.212,"end":7531.126,"text":"因為你剛才有發言我就請尊重我的發言權那就是說現在把現行的部分呢以院版來講他是把這個權力教育部那現在看到是親府會呢目前已經都被降級為說是親發署"},{"start":7533.148,"end":7551.645,"text":"那公戶體系如果再繼續的因循就治路徑依賴的話呢將把主管機關放在清發署的時候呢這個對於青年的就業啦居住正義還有經濟獨立等各層面的問題其實是沒有辦法去涉及的那教育部也沒有辦法懂很難做協調"},{"start":7553.587,"end":7567.922,"text":"那第二個是因為教育政策如果歸屬到教育部呢青年事務如果歸屬到教育部的話來主管呢有上對下說教的意涵在那第三個青年政策呢跟各部會的"},{"start":7569.063,"end":7577.267,"text":"業務都有相關以政策領域來做劃分作為主管機關可能會產生跟其他目的事業主管機關事不關己而無法專心負責的問題目前我們本黨所提出來的是在國發會最重要是本來的研考業務就是國發會的權責反而會更適宜這一部分當然我們也看到這不是只是國發會而已包括的是"},{"start":7595.134,"end":7622.604,"text":"包括其他委員的他們版本的部分都有提到是青年事務發展匯報這個部分那這個部分的匯報當然就是需要有個主管機關去支持它那更重要的是這個機關呢它當然是包括作為資料匯整還包括的每個定期的時間的這樣的把資訊匯整之後呢作為匯報的非常重要的機關那另外除了這個匯報之外呢本"},{"start":7624.024,"end":7632.248,"text":"民眾黨提出來說因應到氣候變遷因應法當中它也有一個所謂氣候變遷在行政院之下氣候變遷"},{"start":7634.383,"end":7663.763,"text":"因應的辦公室所以因此在這邊呢就現有的機制當中已經有可以實施的就是就是青年事務的辦公室在行政院之下的時候呢更可以去作為一個在這邊上面的一種更把跨部份的部分的這個議席的再把它做一個一個整合協調那這部分也是可以因應到目前的機關上面都有在做這樣的事情所以本席的民眾黨意見就是說把主管機關列在"},{"start":7665.944,"end":7690.522,"text":"國發會這部分的包括相關配套措施的進行才能夠不會跌床駕屋但是在原有的機構上面也呈現出來政府他的確有心的是在今年政策上面能夠是用一個跨部會來整合有這樣的一個協調機制所以國發會是最重要的一個主管機關的意義就在這裡 謝謝好 我們再請葛如君召委"},{"start":7693.547,"end":7718.034,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想這一條我們本來本席的版本是放在說明欄位裡面有希望能夠在主管機關跟權責機關這裡做更明確的定義我們這裡也是非常鼓勵也支持我們院版把很多的細項細節也確實都明定在法條當中所以我想我們也是很理性的來支持目前這個部分的修正 謝謝"},{"start":7720.046,"end":7738.188,"text":"好 我們再請外賣雷英委員然後再來柯芝恩然後再來林月請 謝謝好 謝謝昭緯我想我的這個版本跟行政院版本不同的地方在於現在行政院的主管機關教育部但是本席認為我的版本是在中央主管機關是在行政院"},{"start":7739.309,"end":7754.177,"text":"當然我有幾個理由如下第一個我想本法所涉及的青年事務其實非常非常的廣泛當中就像大家所認知的一樣有很多地方需要跨部會的合作包括青年政策跟法規的制定"},{"start":7755.038,"end":7773.576,"text":"還有我們降低數位落差跟參與各項文化活動同時要強化青年就業的品質保障青年的居住權還有提升青年生活的品質以及協助青年擁有穩定的經濟生活也來鼓勵我們參與國際的活動跟交流等等"},{"start":7774.577,"end":7796.959,"text":"這些相關業務其實散佈在各部會當中教育部其實只佔了一部分而已如果由教育部來作為主管機關其實我也擔心我不知道部長自己會不會其實有些擔心也有壓力就是跟其他的平行機關橫向的溝通等等恐怕沒有那麼容易所以除了可能會讓相關的青年業務的推展進度緩慢"},{"start":7798.56,"end":7826.661,"text":"再加上青年政策的複雜性專業多元跟它可具變化性所以本席認為如果由行政院來作為主管機關以政院的高度還有統一 事權跟指揮我認為是可以加速我們青年業務的推動其實我們可以看到以行政院為法律主管機關其實早有先例不管是我們看到花東地區發展條例離島建設條例等等主管機關其實也都是行政院所以過去也有這樣子一個先例在"},{"start":7827.381,"end":7856.178,"text":"所以我們在看這個目前行政院版本中央主管機關是教育部但是我們看到其實在第27條當中又有規定行政院應該要設置青年事務發展匯報所以這代表其實行政院有認同要用院的高度跟層級來推動我們青年相關的一個事務所以其實在我的版本當中其實我還是認為這個我們中央主管機關其實在行政院其實會比較合適一些以上好 我們再請柯癡恩委員"},{"start":7858.136,"end":7874.448,"text":"大家對於這個主管機關有不同的看法那我個人基本上是支持行政院的版本是由教育部來做一個主責然後大家其實所關切的問題就是怕這個青年發展署他以目前的層級他的預算跟他的經費還要統領這麼多這些不管勞動部什麼數位發展部等等實在是很困難這個是為難我們的青發署的署長"},{"start":7884.395,"end":7912.221,"text":"但是我個人認為說在第27條我看各委員的版本都已經提出來如果由教育部來主責然後大家看看27條裡面行政院裡面會有個匯報那每個人對於這個匯報有人認為是三個月開一次六個月開一次或是一年開一次這我們都到時候可以來討論但是在這個匯報當中大家要知道一定要有個主責的單位然後再經由其他萬一有發生跟橫向的溝通有問題的時候可以利用這個匯報時間由行政院"},{"start":7914.181,"end":7941.804,"text":"再來做一個權責上面的一個所謂的一個決定所以個人認為說其實在第三條當中各有說法但是呢是否就應該在這個過程當中就是尊重行政院的版本然後任何的修正在27條當中看如何來做一個監督跟一個更大的一個強調我覺得這樣會比較好然後大家如果要在這個什麼裡面包括涵蓋涵蓋不完啦真的是涵蓋不完啦"},{"start":7942.284,"end":7963.419,"text":"各位青年基本法尚未大法請大家永遠記住這個你要把這個所謂的作用法什麼都放到裡面去我們今天討論不完了所以本席建議第三條就是讓行政版本通過然後其他部分到二十七條再討論以上好我們再來請最後我們寧願請委員發言然後我們就先請部長"},{"start":7966.189,"end":7984.584,"text":"好 來 月琴 月琴委員剛才我們的第一條本來就已經有講到要加個弱勢世代正義再加上第七條特別有去提到環境永續所以在這邊也要問教育部是說今天如果講到這個的話"},{"start":7985.945,"end":8000.218,"text":"在2023年兒權公約就有一個所謂的環境權這一塊如果今天第一條跟第七條有加這個的話那就回來問是說假設要有各部會的一個角色的話會辣掉一個部會也就是環境部"},{"start":8001.019,"end":8028.197,"text":"才可以呼應你的第一條跟後來的第七條因為的確我說2023年人家在講環境權的時候講到世代正義講到環境永續的話事實上是必須要把環境部的角色放進去所以我想問說這邊沒有特別考量那為什麼 以上 謝謝好 那本席的想法跟柯智恩委員不謀而合"},{"start":8029.665,"end":8039.277,"text":"基本上就是希望大家來支持院版主管機關因為重點就是27條27條有考慮到跨部會協調的問題有承諾行政院會設置青年事務發展會報"},{"start":8045.704,"end":8069.106,"text":"這是行政院長擔任召集人然後邀請專家學者相關部會首長青年代表來跨部會的這個所謂的這個會議所以我覺得這個所謂的跨部會的延續這個部分應該是不用擔心的所以我覺得主責單位還是回到教育部而且教育部也是眾所公認就全國上下最清楚青年事務的部會"},{"start":8069.828,"end":8075.906,"text":"所以我想這個部分還是請大家支持教育部那我們是不是先請部長來回答"},{"start":8080.725,"end":8102.323,"text":"謝謝委員的支持我想教育部事實上我們看到地方目前22個地方縣市大概那一個他們目前雖然我們青年基本法還沒有正式通過以我們青知會跟青年署目前所推動的大概22個縣市除了有一個縣還沒有大概那個整個的從"},{"start":8103.484,"end":8121.55,"text":"地方的model也都是局處或者科然後上面由縣市長設立一個類似委員會的一個等於說類似這樣一個匯報的這樣一個跨局處來統籌所以其實中藥有一個負責單位那教育部容易承擔"},{"start":8123.051,"end":8134.499,"text":"我想不管今天青年的問題它有經濟 有內政有房屋租屋 居住正義有太多的衛福教養的東西終究還是要有一個"},{"start":8136.147,"end":8155.073,"text":"我們也不能所有的東西因為院長他已經有一個匯報他在跨部會那如果我們還要在院裡邊那院室上設那麼多的一個部會裡邊本來就是希望能夠透過一個科程體質責任分工嘛所以在以現階段來看"},{"start":8156.493,"end":8180.742,"text":"確實在這個部分我們有青年署教育部來勇於承擔我想這是相對在政策我們對青年的一個政策權益的一個關注我想我們是不是先以驗版的一個方式來通過然後在未來實施要青年署要再更擴大變成一個中央的一個部會我想那是也許是另外第二個階段我們委員"},{"start":8181.602,"end":8199.504,"text":"也保留彈性那是不是在這個部分我們是不是也拜託各位委員支持就第三條以驗版的一個方式來通過謝謝好 那我們接下來先請萬美玲委員再來劉淑冰委員再來張雅玲委員那我們發言之後我們就來討論怎麼辦OK 好"},{"start":8201.536,"end":8225.406,"text":"好 謝謝昭緯那我也非常的謝謝部長一個勇於承擔其實讓我覺得非常的敬佩但是我想除了有這個勇氣之外最重要是這個執行力因為我們知道剛剛有提到所有委員都有提到這個跨部會到時候領域的事項非常的多那我們知道其實教育部其實是一個非常大的部會然後事情也非常的多"},{"start":8226.306,"end":8255.269,"text":"那所以現在呢我們有這個將來在這個七年基本法這個確認了以後我們有這麼多跨部會的時候我想請教一下就部長除了勇氣之外有沒有去思考過我們遇到跨部會的時候我們在人力我們在執行力我們在方法上面能不能請部長我覺得還是闡述個給他個兩三分鐘讓我們對他更有信心同時不要到時候造成他更大的壓力的時候勇於承擔到無法承擔那我覺得這個就也不太好"},{"start":8255.689,"end":8261.196,"text":"所以除了勇氣是不是到時候請召委給部長再個三五分鐘的時間說明一下好不好謝謝好 謝謝我們再來請劉書斌委員"},{"start":8271.622,"end":8293.897,"text":"謝謝主席那剛才也謝謝教育部長這部長您有說了這部分勇於去承擔說這部分在清發署來去進行的這個業務上面就好但是您所提到的這一部分看到22個縣市基本上每一個縣市都有所謂的青年諮詢會議等等的但是也不要忘記"},{"start":8294.597,"end":8314.849,"text":"各個縣市更重要的是也設置了青年事務局或是青年局這表示它已經都跟像教育部在各縣市的教育局教育處這邊都已經有相關的如果是有能夠解決問題的話各個縣市政府可能就直接就設在教育處或是教育局下面就夠了"},{"start":8315.809,"end":8331.545,"text":"這就表示說目前隨著時代的發展資訊的一個促進的時候就有這樣的一個發展在於說青年事務局有些必要當然沒有錯青年事務的這個匯報發展的這個匯報的確是很重要它還有這個部分但是"},{"start":8333.147,"end":8360.206,"text":"剛才的是聽到萬美玲還有包括柯市任委員都有提到說是不是能夠在業務上面能夠在未來的這個清發署能夠有這樣子的一個這樣的能力制度預算等等的如果就是這樣子就是新品要裝舊酒就是沒辦法去拿成的所以因此我在我們民眾黨的這邊意見是說希望這一條能夠做保留到更廣泛的去接受意見之後來去做協商之後能夠來去支持 謝謝"},{"start":8362.162,"end":8363.417,"text":"好 我們先請張雅玲委員"},{"start":8366.311,"end":8391.438,"text":"好 那也跟部長更新一個消息金門在上個禮拜五成立了對 終於拼上了最後一塊拼圖那不過我想就是說我還是想要了解就是在我們現在的這個法規裡面我們把相對多的局處都把它一些機關的權責劃分都寫出來了可是我們在教育部的部分卻沒有寫那我這邊的建議還是這樣子就是說"},{"start":8393.479,"end":8406.293,"text":"第一個先回答我為什麼我們到時候沒有把教育部放進去第二個我們是不是可以用更精簡的方式來寫不然我真的覺得我擔心是掛一漏萬就像剛剛提到的環境部可能有相對多的一些部會可能就因此而沒有被列到這樣子"},{"start":8408.154,"end":8436.579,"text":"好 那我們再請林月琴委員因為剛剛部長沒有回應我這邊講到是有關環境部因為我說我們二權公約已經有出來針對氣候權這也是我剛剛提到你們第一條要假設已經前面已經講要落實四代正義了然後後邊又講說環境永續都會有牽扯到可是這邊又沒有特別去提所以可不可以等一下請部長回應一下以上 謝謝好 部長"},{"start":8437.95,"end":8442.615,"text":"要不要再做一下回應對於很多委員的這個意見"},{"start":8447.925,"end":8469.753,"text":"謝謝委員我想有關環境部這個部分因為我們在第12款第7條都會有那當然這裡邊有其他沒有列舉的這裡邊事實上他也做了一個這個包括在第12款一邊"},{"start":8471.033,"end":8491.542,"text":"那另外委員也關心這個教育部以現有的青年署他是不是能夠足以承擔那麼大的未來的一些工作所增加的一些工作的優量我想主要還是涉及到人力跟經費我們也會跟行政院來聚集來爭取做這樣一個補充說明"},{"start":8495.223,"end":8514.299,"text":"另外其實委員剛才也在談環境那個部分我們其實在第一條裡面剛才也特別忘了最後它促進國家社會永續發展這個永續的發展國家社會裡面基本上包含環境的永續這當然是已經在概念上已經是有的"},{"start":8514.739,"end":8541.215,"text":"那如果說我們在第三條裡面第十二項還沒有辦法具體的去包含環境的部分那當然委員也可以請委員因為第七條以及環境的永續譬如說第七條是政府應採取具體措施保障青年享有未來社會及環境之永續那在"},{"start":8543.056,"end":8564.201,"text":"第三項第三項裡邊也都有在談到這個環境永續的一些議題也許等一下委員也可以再來參訪看怎麼樣有一個更周全的這個抱歉剛好沒有回答到我的那個問題就是說為什麼會你訂立了相對多的部會可是教育部的部分卻沒有把它列進去"},{"start":8569.903,"end":8589.89,"text":"好 沒關係 那我們再請林月琴委員在發言之後我們再請部長回答喔部長 也就是說因為你的第一條 第七條尤其第七條講得非常明確要能夠參與能源跟環境保護這個永續議題才會建議你是而且我說加上過去"},{"start":8590.51,"end":8614.886,"text":"連兒少犬法也都少漏掉這個未來修兒少犬法一定會認為環境權要加進去那一樣的就是說既然講了這麼多這個議題而且要做的那反而是在目的事業主管機關裡面你不應該事實上把它加進去讓環境部可以去承擔嗎那當然我說等一下如果大家同意願板的話我這就要考慮到附帶決議我不認為在12款的時候可以因為它不明確以上"},{"start":8617.427,"end":8640.112,"text":"好 那我想大家充分發言喔那部長也有懇請大家支持院版喔那因為我們跨 大家擔心的這個跨部會的協調應該就在27條有訂定喔剛剛柯政委員也講得非常明白所以是不是大家來支持第三條就照院版來通過那如果"},{"start":8641.682,"end":8657.48,"text":"主席等一下 支持我沒有意見啦但是我本來是想要請署長做說明但剛才主席您說在27條就會來討論這個部分對 有一些不會協調 對那到27條的時候我請署長一定要充分的說明喔因為有些青年團體他們還是有些疑慮好 謝謝好"},{"start":8659.542,"end":8685.159,"text":"好 劉淑冰委員謝謝主席喔這個部分就剛才可以看到第三條裡面的列出來這麼多的主管是主管機關的跟其他部會的這個關係就呈現出來其實教育部是沒辦法就完成這個工作但是有說一個會報在27條沒有錯但是這部分它如果是這樣子大選旁落而且真正有所謂的整合經驗的部會協調經驗的就是國發會那既然"},{"start":8689.882,"end":8708.468,"text":"所以我們本長是認為國發會還是比較適當的但是如果大家現在有不同的意見這部分的話我認為政黨還是保留而且希望是以過去教文委員會對於不同意見的時候我們代表是一個政黨的一個聲音所以這邊我建議是要進入到保留階段 謝謝好 那署長你要說明嗎"},{"start":8716.95,"end":8733.383,"text":"這邊以上我想謝謝各位委員的一些指教的意見那我這邊特別說明一下其實在第三條的第一項我們已經有提到這個本法所稱主管機關在中央維教育部直轄市市縣市政府所以這主管機關其實有明定了"},{"start":8733.703,"end":8761.829,"text":"那其他的相關剛才有提到青年的相關權益包括一些環境遊戲等等那都是在各個目的事業主管機關裡面去做規範也就是說在後面的條文開始我們大概從第8條到17條我們都會就各目的事業主管機關相關的有關青年權益部分以及我們要重視的一起去涵蓋在裡面那剛才很多委員大概也關心到說整個運作問題事實上這個青年署"},{"start":8762.909,"end":8788.692,"text":"當然過去是政府會不過現在青年署我們整個也非常支持青年的一個賠利所以在整個業務推動部分我們因應這個整個青年法如果未來通過的話那當然我們在一些法上面所訂定的一些要推動的業務部分我們會再爭取一些援和跟經費來大力支持那其實在目前整個運作部分包括行政院的"},{"start":8789.532,"end":8805.942,"text":"青年諮詢委員會議其實都是青年署在做幕僚的一個業務然後也跟跨部會也做協調那實際運作目前我們跟各縣市政府之間的青年事務專責單位我們都有全國的青年事務首長會報"},{"start":8807.779,"end":8821.705,"text":"到今年已經辦理第二屆了同時目前21個縣市政府都有青年的諮詢組織這一塊青年署每年也都會召開中央跟地方的青年諮詢組織青年諮詢委員的一個"},{"start":8824.646,"end":8843.368,"text":"全國匯報所以所有的青年意見我們都會都可以來這個匯報裡面我們多做交流也由青年提出對相關部會的一些建議那同時呢目前在整個未來運作部分但剛有提到過27條有提到的行政院的青年事務發展匯報"},{"start":8844.229,"end":8871.571,"text":"以及縣市直轄市也有縣市的青年事務發展匯報所以這相關部分未來在整個運作方面其實在不管是諮詢的一個性質或是決策性質我想在整個行政院就是已經有我們的條文已經有提到這個主管機關是在教育部所以教育部這邊我們當然由青年署這邊我們會扮演好整個所有的溝通協調跟幕僚的角色"},{"start":8871.971,"end":8887.284,"text":"那我們也期盼就是各位委員在就未來可能需要的一個員額跟經費部分在於大力支持那我們一起來支持也培育青年共同來努力 謝謝好 那吳思瑤委員"},{"start":8894.191,"end":8914.081,"text":"因為聽了一輪主席也充分讓各位委員都充分表達意見那其實多數的委員是支持行政院的版本那我也再次說明這將近兩年的時間我們跟這麼多團體的討論大家都接受教育部是跟青年事務執掌最直接相關的部會"},{"start":8915.282,"end":8943.895,"text":"那大家擔心能不能夠有效整合所以補強了青年事務發展匯報的這個部分那因為我想國民黨的委員也接受然後民進黨委員也都接受願板我是在盡最後一個努力啦我希望讓這一條可以往前走啦那個民眾黨的劉委員因為如果您質疑教育部沒有辦法承擔青年政策的主責大任那我可能也想要問那國發會做得到嗎"},{"start":8946.409,"end":8964.328,"text":"國發會是更適合的單位嗎我們可以看看國發會的組織法舒冰委員也可以參照一下國發會長禮的事項確實是有國家發展政策但是國家發展政策是所有面向的國家發展政策"},{"start":8965.396,"end":8981.61,"text":"如果說能源也要國家發展政策住宅也要國家發展政策環境也要國家發展政策那所有東西部會都不用做啦都國發會去做就好啦那國發會的組織法也非常清楚的議定它其實更偏重於經濟發展"},{"start":8984.492,"end":9004.191,"text":"產業發展 人力資源 國土綜合的規劃等等所以如果要選擇教育部跟國發會誰是跟青年事務最貼近跟青年人的業務接觸最多的那個部會如果相較起來 那絕對是教育部"},{"start":9005.31,"end":9019.696,"text":"所以說在真的是我覺得這個沒有誰對誰錯誰輸誰贏我們共同是在考量誰對於青年政策的掌握最能夠到位我還是誠摯的認為如果在場多數的委員都認同教育部也願意承擔責任"},{"start":9022.113,"end":9046.758,"text":"真的就讓他往前走我再一次說我們真的都希望這個條文是大家都各黨有共識不要送院會表決幹嘛的為了青年的事務它是一個基本法所以請大家都能夠捐氣自己的一些既定的看法那多數的意見我是建議主席多數的意見在這一條是非常明確剛剛年輕那個18歲35歲45歲那個還有一點歧義還可以再"},{"start":9051.039,"end":9058.903,"text":"收攏大家的意見但是這一條相對多數意見是很明確的我是建議啦就是能夠通過的話再次請求大家好 范雲委員我是要提醒那個民眾黨委員上次那個AI基本法最後一條那個葛如君裁決的時候當時在場明顯好幾位委員是不同的意見葛如君早晚應該記得當時我抗議今天這個"},{"start":9081.034,"end":9101.526,"text":"國發會在場應該是只有一位委員是這個部分然後民眾黨就是希望大家要尊重保留那我是覺得這個不一致喔那上次在場有好多位委員不是只有一位對那個最後的條文是不同的意見就被葛如君召委裁決了所以我想這個明顯的不一致我也要提出來那個提醒一下"},{"start":9105.427,"end":9128.462,"text":"好 那我們最後 劉淑檳委員講完我們這一條就不發言了 好不好大家都很 噢 葛如君 羅庭瑋好 這樣待會兒 傳播這條說話之後我們就來關了 好不好看要保留 或是要通過我們連絡的照片有文件 謝謝好 謝謝主席喔這個部分"},{"start":9130.14,"end":9146.722,"text":"剛好也有國家發展委員會的行政官員在現場那這部分我想請國發會的社會處的處長來做一下回應這部分因為本身就是非常需要協調的部分那因為"},{"start":9147.563,"end":9176.402,"text":"您剛才范雲委員所說的這部分有多數曾經在上次的時候有一些不同的意見但是不要忘記現在是政黨的部分在想說這麼多位其實就是一個民進黨的聲音跟其他國民黨的聲音跟民眾黨的聲音這部分我想三分之一但是我重點不是在這我想說我並不是說否定而是希望說能夠有機會進入到保留的部分來說明把保留讓大家政黨協商更我代表的是我們政黨黨團的力量在這邊的時候"},{"start":9178.364,"end":9195.535,"text":"請就尊重我現在在我們的這個教委委員會當還包括黨團的這部分的這個這樣的一個立場所以這部分我認為是在保留到協商的時候尤其是說國民黨或民進黨都有共同意見的話也許真的是保留協商的時候就是就沒有問題啦"},{"start":9196.576,"end":9216.049,"text":"那只是我必須在現在這個階段當中必須要去堅持因為這是非常特殊的如果這樣的意見還在用教育部作為一個一個主管機關的話你到時候今天會議結束之後你怎麼面對的是我們的青年團體青年的朋友們他就說又是上面說我們下面在接受的意見這樣的一個情況"},{"start":9217.25,"end":9239.024,"text":"我想這個是大家可能不能承受之重但是多一個保留的機會的時候我們再透過一個比較完善的一個政黨協商機制就可以讓這樣的問題讓包括甚至在我們跟我們內部的溝通去跟大家講這個情況之下甚至我覺得民進黨的委員他們也可以知道說你們也是認為說這個支持的這個保留事實上有意義的不然的話教育部仍舊是主管機關的時候"},{"start":9242.383,"end":9253.276,"text":"怎麼面對大家各式支持的這個青年團體的這個消息我想這個是讓整個決策過程比較完備的情況多一點時間讓共識能夠更多形成謝謝"},{"start":9256.209,"end":9275.602,"text":"好 我們請委員 完之後我們再請國發會國發會列席的張處長來說明謝謝昭偉我想在這裡的每一位委員的意見都是平等的有委員有這樣的意見我想不同的法條有不同的狀態"},{"start":9276.883,"end":9303.604,"text":"所以我是希望不要有特定的委員說A法條是這樣處理的B法條也應該這樣處理A草案這樣處理B草案也要這樣處理我覺得每一個草案都有每一個草案非常重要的地位以及狀態所以我覺得這是一個我需要強調的第二個每一位委員的意見都應該是平等的我相信趙偉也是支持第三點既然有特定的委員提到AI基本法"},{"start":9304.224,"end":9321.834,"text":"我就真的是要再次強烈的譴責行政院現在8月14號了還沒有送AI基本法的草案到立法院來做審議啊已經跳票一個月了那我在這裡就正式的回覆我們的范雲委員啊"},{"start":9322.594,"end":9336.785,"text":"您提到上一次的我們的施行日期您說要由行政院定之行政院跳票一個月送不進來草案這樣的單位我們要讓他來定AI基本法的施行日期"},{"start":9338.28,"end":9364.872,"text":"當然我們要予以這個處理所以我覺得我們今天在審的是青年基本法每個法有每個法不同的情況我們應該要尊重每位委員的意見既然您提出了AI基本法我要為我們支持AI基本法以及當時支持這個決議的所有委員我必須在這裡講話希望再次鄭重的呼籲我們的行政院趕快把AI基本法的草案送到立法院來 謝謝"},{"start":9367.52,"end":9393.299,"text":"好 請羅廷偉委員然後再來請范雲委員好 其實我個人認為劉淑冰委員所提出的版本我個人是也蠻支持的今天當然能夠推進這樣子的一個院版的版本是前進一步但是就算是為了劉淑冰委員的版本我們暫且保留我個人認為也不是退步啊它也是用不同的層面來幫青年的委員發聲我想國發會"},{"start":9394.76,"end":9411.714,"text":"我還是要再次的強調在上次的質詢我也是非常鼓勵我們的教育部尤其部長是非常有自己的能力今天勇於承擔我們當然也給予鼓勵但是不要忘記國發會自己本身也在做一些獎勵青年投入的一些地方創生計畫"},{"start":9413.135,"end":9440.874,"text":"青年培力的一些工作站這些補助的計畫也不能抹滅國發會其實平時就有在跟青年站在一起所以更多的一些權責機關能夠一起為青年來發聲我個人認為沒有任何的問題所以我覺得今天在走到這樣子的部分上今天如果保留的話大家再更加積極的討論也是幫助青年很大的一個動力以上"},{"start":9441.977,"end":9459.657,"text":"好 我們再來請范雲范雲委員之後我們請國發會來說明再來張雅玲跟郭育晴是不是我要提醒一下那天AI基本法召委主持的方式跟今天林益菁委員非常的不一樣我們現在有這個不同你看我們討論了多久"},{"start":9461.178,"end":9477.275,"text":"那AI基本法大家都記得多少條文是保留的我們當然希望述發部趕快提出來那述發部提到了國際情勢的不一致那那麼多條文關鍵不一樣都是保留沒辦法實質討論的時候然後最後一條"},{"start":9480.658,"end":9496.674,"text":"那條條文召委根本也沒有讓大家發言就直接裁決我想我們印象應該很深刻那時候我當場抗議說教文委員的傳統都是有好好討論的是針對好好討論而不是針對實質的內容我們希望針對青年基本法討論"},{"start":9497.515,"end":9523.841,"text":"沒關係我只要講現在是主持風格民眾黨希望保留那大家再遊說他我們到現在還在遊說主席到現在都沒有任意裁決我要提醒葛如君是你破壞教育委員的優良傳統今天就算林益菁委員裁決的話也是比你好很多不好意思這個主席我還是要提出抗議教育委員會的優良傳統怎麼可以是范雲委員一個人說了算呢主席這個你同意嗎這是民主嗎"},{"start":9527.813,"end":9544.164,"text":"不是啦 他是在強調說上一次大家有不同意見是大家尊重你的裁決我還是要提出抗議主席尊重每一位委員委員也應該我們都尊重主席嘛所以范瑩委員我覺得您在這裡"},{"start":9545.345,"end":9569.225,"text":"我真的希望我們趕快回來審青年基本法好不好青年基本法我在立法院五年所看到的好嗎我把主觀加進來好 謝謝青年基本法 謝謝好 我們先請國發會好不好召委不好意思啦我覺得啦我們可不可以請范議員委員我們葛芸園委員這個部分不要再談了每個委員有每個召委有每個召委的風格我們都尊重嘛但我們不要再拿來談這個事情比較可以進入到我們今天正確的主題好不好"},{"start":9571.558,"end":9576.543,"text":"好 從現在開始不能講非關系的基本法的相關事情好 國發會國發會回答來來來 麥股國發會"},{"start":9591.061,"end":9605.274,"text":"報告各位委員這一個案子的話基本上的話在行政院這邊都已經討論過大家所關心的問題在院內的部分都有特別考量就是說第一個從組織法的觀點來看組織法的職長各有職師很明確的"},{"start":9609.878,"end":9634.301,"text":"教育部的裡面 尤其他是負責所謂的青年政策 青年參與還有青年發展這些政策的協調跟規劃推動都在教育部而且他有明確的有個執事司長就是說在青年發展署所以這個部分他有上位的規劃 下位的執行都有明確的一個組織體去運作基本上來講他這個運作是順遂的"},{"start":9634.921,"end":9658.875,"text":"第二個從剛剛大家所關切的所謂的一個協調統合或者是資源的一個分配協調的部分因為在我們現在的方案裡面不管是委員的或行政院版本都有設計所謂的青年發展會報甚至所謂的青年諮詢委員會以目前行政院的青年發展諮詢委員會的機制上來講只有院長主持所以這裡面來講"},{"start":9660.436,"end":9682.691,"text":"相關的部會所參與的部分都可以在這個資源的協調跟政策的一個統合上來講行政院的label的這個匯報都會可以做一個彈性的機制條件處理所以應該也沒有委員所擔心的說教育部只單純他自己提就OK的不是的 因為在整個法規的設計上來講"},{"start":9684.292,"end":9706.481,"text":"各部會相關的都會來配合這個會報院長主持會報的這個部分的機制所推動的政策或資源的一個賦予上來全力合作所以這個部分應該也是運作順遂而且目前來講在所謂的基本法上來的規範的話是要必須各部會都一起來共同努力而不是單一部會去處理"},{"start":9707.501,"end":9730.097,"text":"以現在目前的資源有限的狀況底下國發會目前的一個相關的人力或職場上範圍上可能還是有一點必須要考量可能比較難執行這個部分但是如果說涉及到部會裡面他們提出來相關有關青年發展的一個計畫或者是相關的一個資源需要國發會這邊來幫忙做計畫的資源協調審議的部分我們都還是會來幫忙支持的以上報告"},{"start":9737.878,"end":9766.997,"text":"好 那國發會說明得非常的清楚喔那張雅玲委員妳還有發言嗎好簡單說明一下喔簡單就是說因為其實我還是想要提醒一下今天放在國發會的話基本上教文委員會就很難去監督啦這個還是要去調整一下因為畢竟這個國發會要不要排行會是由經濟委員會那如果我們今天想要積極的來去監督相關事務的話我還是會建議劉淑冰委員可不可以考量留在教文委員會的教育部這樣子我們的監督力要會比較強那再來第二個部分就是說"},{"start":9768.178,"end":9791.51,"text":"因為今天大家希望都是可以我想青年不管是青年團體也好大家都希望這步伐盡快通過三讀嘛我們有沒有可能就是如果這個歧義不大的話我們是不是可以在這一條上面就讓它通過這是我的建議啦好劉淑冰我以為妳還要發言我簡單回應一下好那簡單囉拜託妳都講很久不會不會"},{"start":9793.138,"end":9821.779,"text":"剛才我鼎維委員講得非常對就是說目前此保留太保留的這樣的狀況並不會是一種退步而是讓民進黨委員跟國民黨委員自己就是透過一個程序上面再去跟你的內部上面或是支持你的青年團體再做一個好好的溝通去說明作為一個教育部看起來好像是承襲現在的一個制度但是透過原來的教育部就是承襲這個工作的"},{"start":9822.119,"end":9849.275,"text":"但是就透過一個青年基本法還是由教育部來去做一個作為主管機關的話那是不是合宜但是我想這地方就是給一個時間讓大家去做一個內部的溝通等等的那這樣的情況之下你為什麼要求我們去溝通咧我們的團體是主張教育部啊對 但是你對我發言不要對我發言嘛我跟我的團體溝通過了啊為什麼要求我去做什麼事呢"},{"start":9849.975,"end":9871.491,"text":"請尊重我的發言權無備議委員沒有沒有 這個是我們教文的傳統啊我是說各政黨的回去可以去因為他過去可能沒有聽到民眾黨的意見這是民眾黨的版本的意見版本的內容在今天公告了讓大家透過教文委員會的審議可以讓大家知道所以這並不是說"},{"start":9872.372,"end":9880.613,"text":"一個退步的情況是只是讓大家有一個審議的一個把這個程序再把它走完在這個部分就說出來就希望說能夠保留 謝謝"},{"start":9882.403,"end":9911.227,"text":"好 吳思瑤委員然後再來我們就不發言了好不好好 不發言了最後最後因為剛剛國發會也清楚的說明了他們沒有想要接這個重責大任他們也沒有能力來承擔這個責任所以這就是非常務實的誰做好準備誰有意願誰有意志如果支持青年政策能夠做的到位至少教育部今天是彰顯了他們的ready他們的"},{"start":9912.307,"end":9935.216,"text":"這個態度那溝通這件事情我們跟青年團體溝通了600多天民眾黨版本是6月13號提出那早上你們不是開記者會說青年基本法拖嗎那不就是趕快前進嗎現在還要再溝通再次跟大家報告我們溝通了600多天所以匯聚了共同的意見"},{"start":9937.079,"end":9964.584,"text":"那真的 拜託 因為現主席很現實人家國發會沒要接你如果提供他 覺得做得好我想這也不是署兵委員的原意嘛對不對 您推動也是希望能夠找到一個願意承擔 做得好 有心的部會就這個議題上教育委員會能夠直接監督的是教育部否則我現在在司法法治委員會我也很想可以法務部來做好了"},{"start":9964.824,"end":9982.992,"text":"也有青年犯罪的問題要防範可是我不會這樣主張嘛誰能做得到位有利這是最重要的再次懇請主席如果這條多數的意見確實是這樣可不可以推進一下下要不然怎麼辦我們國發會就不來嘛這部分齁"},{"start":9985.131,"end":9995.479,"text":"好 民眾黨這一部分你對你的態度我們都非常了解我知道 那我的意思是說好啦好啦 那我們休息五分鐘我們也該休息了喔好 休息五分鐘 謝謝請麻煩過來一下"},{"start":10015.094,"end":10017.455,"text":"所以這樣子那這一條為什麼不讓大家討論多一點"},{"start":10040.122,"end":10056.817,"text":"你當時就裁決我喊休息你不要很生氣你看你那種處理方式過去萬美靈脫身都是這樣子的你這事情可以溝通一下嗎我現在是要提醒你是你破壞的你不要來過社會那你為什麼這樣要放在我們頭上我們為什麼這樣要放在我們頭上"},{"start":10063.082,"end":10074.986,"text":"我這裡要求你問人討論我邀請女生跟我們聊你跟我們一起我先要提醒你 因為你很重大他討論多久好啊好喔我跟你們講 過去不是這樣"},{"start":10079.927,"end":10094.661,"text":"好,我用來的方法是,我將這兩份事務的原理和原理相似在尋求,相應在原理上的事務,並指出現在政策的維修方案,將以最有精彩相關政策之實境的依據,並有任何一種方式的執行。"},{"start":10099.865,"end":10115.659,"text":"我們可以把這幾天的思想交給你,讓你的心情裡面演繹起來,連結於心靈的中心來建造和合作,是最重要的事。我們可以把這幾天的思想交給你,讓你的心情裡面演繹起來,讓你的心情來建造和合作,是最重要的事。"},{"start":10121.744,"end":10126.749,"text":"我印證請相關部會 提前參加社會談判進行經驗政策諮詢 報告代表參與會談判後期的意見"},{"start":10140.214,"end":10151.642,"text":"還沒料啊可是我剛看一下你這20分鐘有最後一個這個為什麼要最後一個?這個應該是照理講這邊這是最後一個嗎?因為鍵盤都沒有對啊,這個啊對,要把這個組合起來組合起來組合起來組合起來組合起來組合起來"},{"start":10165.471,"end":10173.893,"text":"這本是不是在決議嗎?一本修正的書一本修正的書一本修正的書一本修正的書一本修正的書一本修正的書一本"},{"start":10191.737,"end":10210.188,"text":"沒有私下溝通這件事在會議上面討論就說我們擴充民主的程序你表達啦那我們不用做過了啦我們之前同一個教育委員會有一個公式的部分就是有爭議的部分就是做保留那這個我們注重教育委員會"},{"start":10220.815,"end":10247.83,"text":"我們是不分區的委員 我在後面是我們黨團這邊有他的立場要去做溝通等等的 那目前沒有就是我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作我們不一定會合作"},{"start":10249.411,"end":10268.283,"text":"先不要調到中黨市長我們今天早上找過好委員會最後你看完全部條文你會破爛開朗其實對這部分我們今年是中黨非常堅持的我們也會直到八月底如果要調到夏威夷我覺得不是這樣"},{"start":10268.903,"end":10287.456,"text":"他只需要一個我今天說布委員他並不是堅持到哪一個部會就拿在那裡不動現在應該是大家都有一些擔心說如果今天教育部他有預選單那就看起來沒有 這不是誰要不要這不是誰要不要這不是布委員說不是 我跟你說今天如果"},{"start":10288.216,"end":10311.666,"text":"某一個部會應該是屬於他或我不要難道就屬於我嗎所以這是另外一個問題但是我覺得那個是教育部嗎你要不要讓我們講完你不能拿麥克風來講跟你們講我們現在在溝通嘛所以我自己說不能是應該的不要一直只有一句講說啊你們就要讓讓你要再給數數的意見我們的多數意見都不是意見嗎那個是要我們 你要尊重一下我們還在溝通嘛"},{"start":10312.026,"end":10333.907,"text":"我聽說你要讓書記委員其實他更充分所以民眾黨要讓那個案子是協商往後拖就對了所以你要往後等讓副黨其實我覺得你應該要充分的在這書記委員表達對民眾黨你要協商往後拖怎麼樣讓他可以現在同意說你願意承擔他也覺得你有能力承擔這才是重點嘛 對不對你們不能只有一位來跟他說你要讓你要讓你們讓他有點信心嘛"},{"start":10339.807,"end":10356.642,"text":"開會了開會了開會了他們還是希望能夠保留啊但是你的保留如果保留如果說但是問題是等一下我們還是有一個條文現在還是要討論的我們還是要討論的此時此刻好不好你還講是委員會我講是委員會"},{"start":10360.726,"end":10382.973,"text":"你看我們兩黨又不是我支持啊 我覺得妳就不做陳大方就做這台式啊我是真的希望爭取大家不要再去政黨協商了因為我剛講了嘛 妳即使過了之後到時候政黨協商妳還是可以把它併號出來因為我們也覺得我們這群委員哪裡會聽到妳說過了我到時候提出來妳還是得處理都會是這樣子啊"},{"start":10384.133,"end":10399.345,"text":"還是會處理嘛如果說我到時候提出我對於剛剛已經通過的第三條我有意見我還是會對不對這不是在講哪一個個人大家都很關心嘛不要講個人嘛我意見不需要尊重嗎多數委員的意見不需要尊重嗎"},{"start":10431.72,"end":10434.361,"text":"好 我們休息時間到囉 那我們就就座好不好"},{"start":10448.941,"end":10454.124,"text":"好那我們第三條喔經過相當充分的溝通"},{"start":10455.629,"end":10473.98,"text":"那只有民眾黨很堅持要保留那其他包括國民黨民進黨其實大家意見都有相對一致喔都期待說是教育部是主責單位那所以我想這一條是不是我們就按照院版的來通過"},{"start":10481.804,"end":10507.427,"text":"後面好 那請羅廷偉委員剛剛已經有休息五分鐘我有跟劉淑冰委員溝通她願意現在先保留在委員會我們先下一條後面回頭再來討論這一條這剛剛吳士耀委員也有說這個部分可不可以那所以我想這個也請主席不要裁決就用這樣子的方式大家先順著下一條"},{"start":10508.348,"end":10532.402,"text":"然後等到我們討論完整體的樣貌以後可能蘇炳委員也有看到可能民眾黨黨團也有看到教育部 國發會我們再來討論那我這個部分我個人我要捍衛他發言的權利我也覺得他講這個部分是有他自己的我是充分給予劉蘇炳很多發言的權利因為這一條因為他講的時間會最多國民黨跟民進黨直接就支持"},{"start":10537.018,"end":10558.204,"text":"好 OK 謝謝謝謝庭委委員好 我理解我現在來處理反正好 那就保留先保留那我們回過頭我們回過頭因為我們第二條是這樣我們採取跟第二條模式一樣我們回過頭再來討論那大家想一下好不好我們大家想一下好 那第三條就先保留我們回頭再來看好 那我們第四條"},{"start":10563.874,"end":10581.265,"text":"第四條是第四條跟第五條其實都是中央政府及直轄市縣市政府的全責的事項那我想是不是就放在一起討論"},{"start":10584.115,"end":10599.589,"text":"不好意思那個主席我有一個4-1的臨時提案OK OK我現在看電腦不好意思不好意思好那我們第四條就看那我們就個別處理好了啦我本來想說相對一樣那第四條跟4-1要一起討論還是分別處理"},{"start":10600.53,"end":10617.929,"text":"因为我第四条所提出来的四之一所以主席我先征求是要分别处理还是一起处理一起处理好了好那柯之珍委员第四条之一我是增订一个版本我相信不管是任何的委员都跟青年团体都有充分的沟通"},{"start":10618.65,"end":10634.188,"text":"然后第四条所提出来的我认为应该是重中之重我的四之一是说为了促进青年参与公共政策关心国家发展国民年满18岁者有依法行使选举罢免创制复决之权"},{"start":10635.049,"end":10657.549,"text":"我想这个问题里面其实应该是青年团体最在乎的那我想因为我们现在也有所谓的修宪小组即将成立但本人认为这个跟所谓的青年基本法透过这样一个宣示性的一个法案跟所谓的修宪应该是两码的事情应该是可以并轨来执行而且过去有非常多公法专家也特别提出来"},{"start":10658.81,"end":10661.834,"text":"這個部分裡面呢有關18歲的公民權這個選舉權在我們上次的這個公投當中很不幸的當當同意票很多但是沒有通過門檻因為實在是非常的門檻非常的高那我個人認為說既然要既定這個青年基本法本身的宣示性"},{"start":10676.252,"end":10703.721,"text":"也就是我們要這個揭示這個重視青年的精神的原則對於青年的公民參與真的是不要輕盈點水應該也不要沒有實質的牛肉這個部分來說我個人認為應該是大家而且過去來說不管藍綠都有提出這樣的一個說法那至於這個已經是一個共識完然後呢2022年全國公民復決的時候因為修憲的門檻過高沒有獲得半數通過但是呢他們認為很多公法專家認為18歲的公民權"},{"start":10706.002,"end":10722.539,"text":"也說實在的也不必透過修憲你藉由修法就可以來實現嘛因為這個憲法所保障的人民的基本的權利它是保障人民應享有的最低基本的一個門檻所以說呢我覺得在這個過程當中呢其實跟憲法是不互相抵觸的"},{"start":10723.32,"end":10743.95,"text":"所以說今天為什麼要特別提出來你不管用什麼樣的方式你這個宣誓的這個層面而且我們後面也可以訂立這個日出條款這個日出條款意思就是說我們提出宣誓的這樣的一個過程當中至於相關的法律包括選罷法包括一些所謂的其他的法令當中都可以給予時間"},{"start":10745.291,"end":10762.956,"text":"來做今天青年基本法就是來做這樣的一個宣示而且我說實在的過去大家認為說因為這個部分裡面可能跟我們的憲法有互相抵觸我還是要特別提到過去我們的憲法裡面有特別提到的嘛你看憲法160條6歲到12歲的學齡兒童一律受到基本的教育但是"},{"start":10763.516,"end":10780.086,"text":"我們在這個教育基本法當中因為一些社會的變遷也規定了國民基本教育應該隨著社會發展需要延期這個年限即使憲法規定是6到12歲但是我們還是有延長到9年 12年所以這不違反這個憲法的精神"},{"start":10780.726,"end":10801.748,"text":"所以说呢这个过去来说我也相信四月多的时候好像民进党委员也特别跟青年团体都有召开这样子一个会议非常感谢而且在这个过程当中他们也提出来这跟修宪是完全不互相违背的所以本人认为如果对于这个青年真的有实质上的这个层面来说的话四之一"},{"start":10802.248,"end":10824.737,"text":"应该给予青年最关切而且是在整个青年基本法里面重中之重的要给他赋予这样子的一个权利所以说本席就认为提出的四之一也恳请所有的委员能够呼应过去不管不分朝野让18岁年轻人都可以享有这些选举罢免创制复选的权利以上"},{"start":10826.257,"end":10850.44,"text":"好 柯智恩表達是他有增訂第四條之一那我們本文第四條大家有沒有意見或者針對柯智恩的第四條之一有何意見吳思瑤委員等一下葛如君招委因為如果直接跳到四之一那個會卡很久是不是可以先講第四條"},{"start":10852.306,"end":10879.638,"text":"第四條的部分其實為什麼剛剛第三條要保留國發會的不可行其實第四條就會顯現出來了第四條我是主張可以參照院版就是中央政府要落實下列涉及青年事務的事項青年發展的政策法規什麼的然後第二款是直轄縣市第三款是青年經費的分配第四個是其他全國性青年"},{"start":10880.658,"end":10902.727,"text":"的政策的督導講回來這都跟剛剛前一條的主管機關相關因為現在跟直轄市縣市政府對於青年政策的督導協調其實就都是教育部一直在做的事情國發會並沒有針對青年主題的跟各個縣市的青資會青年的這個團體不是團體那個組織"},{"start":10906.696,"end":10929.607,"text":"單位在對話所以如果單純看第四條我是可以支持行政院的院版但也會回饋到剛剛主管機關還是要教育部比較合一那剛剛柯志恩委員提的四條之一這件事情真的是姿勢體大要用一個法律的層面來凌駕憲法的規範這個真的有很多要考量的"},{"start":10930.947,"end":10945.518,"text":"民進黨長期支持18歲的公民權所以在上一次的修憲委員會我也是修憲委員會的成員修憲委員會在18歲公民權從頭到尾排案 討論都是民進黨的委員站在支持的角度"},{"start":10946.238,"end":10973.318,"text":"但最後一刻當然這個過程就不用講了哪個政黨當時支持或不支持或是消極杯葛這個查一下議事錄都知道但最終修憲沒有辦法達成那現在已經組成了新的修憲委員會8月25號就要開第一次會我是誠懇的呼籲各黨對於修憲委員會的組成是民眾黨倡議要這個會期研會的期末就要來組成"},{"start":10974.279,"end":10995.218,"text":"那既然如此代表我们修宪可以往前推进那修宪有很多个面向如果民主党的委员支持我们在修宪委员会里头就把18岁公民权正式再次的列案大家的共识没有什么比宪法层级的保障更稳固那同样的立法委员我们也不能违背宪法现在的宪法规定在那里"},{"start":10996.243,"end":11023.988,"text":"二十歲有選舉罷免創制覆決當然公民投票是降到十八歲但是這還是要回到這個憲法的規定啦所以知恩委員的這一條真的姿勢體大但是現在開了一個機會之窗讓修憲委員會好好的來公民權的部分下降到十八歲我們用憲法的部分來處理它所以我一併表達我的意見但是第四條我建議可以行政院的版本這樣"},{"start":11025.253,"end":11029.91,"text":"好 葛如君委員 然後范雲委員好"},{"start":11032.076,"end":11055.595,"text":"謝謝主席我想這裡要呼應一下柯政委員剛剛所提出的其實這個基本法是一個上位的一個精神性的法規我們也希望在這個整體的法令的框架裡面也持續的收攏最新的民意以及世界的變遷以及變動"},{"start":11056.596,"end":11080.709,"text":"那我在一開始前面的條文就有提到其實青年的發展是提前的那以及整體發展的年齡層是往後延的所以這個範圍是我本身也認同這樣的一個精神所以我們先不討論這個機制設定如何設定在哪一個地方設定但是我想在這個精神上"},{"start":11081.109,"end":11104.768,"text":"我們還是希望給予支持那也就希望呢更多的委員呢一起來支持我們能有更多的青年投入我們的這個民主事務那我們這個基本法裡面也有非常多法條也有提到所謂的公共事務所以我想這個剛剛柯志恩委員提到的這些權利本來就是公共事務的一部分所以我希望在精神上我是完全的來給予支持 謝謝"},{"start":11105.95,"end":11119.427,"text":"好 那再來范雲委員羅廷偉委員然後還有柯芝恩好這個18歲公民權我應該是在民間跟就是我們的不管是台少盟青年團體推動也超過10年了"},{"start":11121.69,"end":11147.172,"text":"那我非常的記得上一屆在修憲委員會中民進黨是最大力推動的那當時是唯一一個有出立法院的修憲條文那不過很不幸的在最後公投的階段那至少我自己個人是有去好多地方演講那可是也有些政黨並沒有在推公投那當然我們今天不再講這個部分了所以我一直非常支持這個部分"},{"start":11147.712,"end":11174.01,"text":"但是現在的困擾就是公法界對於是應該修憲還是修法就好有不同的意見我覺得這個部分我們就是要一起面對不管是在修憲委員會當中還是之後的公投還是只要修法就好還是就是說那個已經被癱瘓的憲法法庭我想這個部分就是大家必須一起面對這個問題以上"},{"start":11175.991,"end":11185.377,"text":"我個人當然是非常非常支持18歲就有公民權因為有些國家就是16歲或更早 謝謝好 接下來羅廷偉委員"},{"start":11188.88,"end":11215.634,"text":"我想這個呼應一下柯政委員所提的那我個人也認為青年參與公共政策關心國家大事這是一個非常重要的那修憲重不重要修憲當然重要那既然我們已經有這個修憲委員會那也在初步大家的這邊談論當中可以看到修憲未來應該會有一定的決議會來朝這個方向來努力那修法呢我覺得雙管齊下"},{"start":11216.634,"end":11243.497,"text":"何樂而不為這個部分應該要讓我們的更多18歲的一些青年看到我們為了他們我們一起在這個地方一起來努力而不是擇一而贏既然是好事我認為應該雙管齊下這個部分所以我覺得我要呼應一起來支持柯之恩委員的這個修正動議版本好 那我們再來柯之恩 柯之恩委員"},{"start":11246.598,"end":11272.288,"text":"的确是了刚刚范芸委员也特别提到了这一块在公法学者上面有不同的意见那我们也当然也知道这个是属于宪法的层级但是不要忘记公法学者也特别提到了因为18岁的门槛很高然后但是你也不会特别这个部分我们要求18岁也并没有违反这个所谓宪法所赋予的一个权益我刚刚已经特别提到了"},{"start":11272.868,"end":11283.053,"text":"藉由修法就可以實現的事情是因為憲法所保障的人民基本權利是保障人民享有最低的一個基本的門檻那民法竟然已經告訴我們說18歲就已經賦予他的一個公民權他並沒有在憲法裡面告訴我們18歲不能夠擁有這些權利啊"},{"start":11292.418,"end":11310.056,"text":"他只是很擔心你如果不調列這個20歲搞不好他們會把他認定在整個30歲或等等之類的他們看憲法的一個解釋上面並沒有說18歲擁有這些選舉權是違憲的所以這個公法上面公法的學者裡面都有不同不同的一個想法"},{"start":11310.436,"end":11324.99,"text":"所以本人为什么在这里把它提出来我只是认为说既然青年计划法本身具有宣示性我们如果能够把这个东西放进去然后设定日出条款起码已经把它放进去的设出日出条款这里面可以把你说"},{"start":11325.45,"end":11337.524,"text":"相關上的一些問題裡面都可以透過這樣的一個時間點不管是你兩年四年等等之類的你可以透過這樣的一個方式然後來把這個法規更完備重點我們要強調強調18歲的具有選舉選舉權這裡面不違反憲法的解釋"},{"start":11346.073,"end":11375.633,"text":"所以公法竟然有两种不同的方法为什么我们只执着于它是可能需要透过修宪来解决为什么不尊重另外一方他们其实在这个看法上面也是非常非常的强大的所以说呢而且我记得四月多时范玉委员对方面着力很多还有吴佩玉委员已经看出宪法在修宪的门槛过高已经直指这个问题所以他们跟很多青年团体站在一起希望能够透过青年基本法的修法能够来完成给青年一个交代"},{"start":11376.093,"end":11390.564,"text":"那所以說大家都看出這個問題了我只是覺得很可惜後來就是撤案了但是我個人認為說在這個不違憲的狀況之下把它放入那至於你要用什麼樣的方法我想民眾黨也有在未來的地方提出來他們是19條裡面比較是軟性的他們提出來是政府因"},{"start":11395.367,"end":11417.874,"text":"达成18岁的公民权这是一个宣誓的一个效果但是我们可以用一个比较稍微直接的18岁生效日出条款然后呢抵触者应该修法我觉得这个比当初范玉委员所提出来的18岁公民权生效抵触者直接失效应该更有一个缓和的一个空间所以我只是认为这样子部分我们要直求对决"},{"start":11418.594,"end":11441.305,"text":"讓青年人知道不要每次都透過修憲的方法那修憲的方法大家很清楚它的困難點在哪裡那既然大家這麼重視所謂青年的問題就應該把它放進來那至於細節該怎麼樣來處理我剛剛特別強調了不管是日出條款或者是一個宣示的部分這一點應該是要讓大家知道我們是真正有在關切他們最重視的權益好 劉淑冰委員"},{"start":11446.158,"end":11464.996,"text":"好 謝謝主席在公民權降到18歲這一個部分本黨的確是在19條也呼應到院版當中的19條就是在促進公共政策的參與當中那本版的條文是在說應在"},{"start":11467.63,"end":11487.564,"text":"應該把18歲的公民權應該列入到基本法當中而且在配合的其他條的部分在相關的有修訂的需要的時候在兩年內把它完成我們是提供的是因那剛才有委員提到民進黨的委員特別提到說上次的部分"},{"start":11488.385,"end":11508.967,"text":"有修憲有困難這部分沒有通過大家花了很多力氣這其實大家也看得到大家三黨都當初都支持的這樣一個修憲條文但是它沒有通過的原因是真的是門檻太高了門檻太高了因為它通過的條件是在有效同意票必須是應投票者的"},{"start":11510.799,"end":11521.364,"text":"因投票者的二分之一以上所以才功虧一簣這就表示了我們修憲本感實在太高了而且在過去我們看到的是公民權當中是選舉創制覆決創制覆決的部分在創制覆決也就呈現在我們的公民投票法"},{"start":11527.847,"end":11552.315,"text":"公民投票法已經在上次就已經就已經在剛開始修訂的時候就已經是立定了18歲的公民權所以包括了好幾次的公投包括下個禮拜要進行的823公投通通都是用這個地方難道那時候各個各個政黨在修這些部分的時候都沒有提到違憲的問題嗎所以這部分這個是不成理由的並沒有違憲之餘因為像本黨這部分在19條是講到的是在"},{"start":11552.955,"end":11568.159,"text":"要因在18歲公民權的話是因在部分的修憲用實際上面修總統副總統選舉罷免法跟公職人員選舉罷免法的部分就可以達到這樣的一個目的那現在部分在促進在這個"},{"start":11570.34,"end":11589.32,"text":"青年基本法當中四至一條的部分的話是提出來一個意向包括的是在國民黨這樣的一個意向基本上我們也是支持的但是如果要配合條文的話可能也許是配合到原來的部分在第十九條是更為合宜就提出這樣的以上說明請大家來支持 謝謝好 再來葛娟昭瑋"},{"start":11590.121,"end":11615.6,"text":"謝謝主席我簡要的講第一點AI跟科技讓青年發展的時間提前了他們的成熟度的發展速度比我們過去要來得更快也更高這是第一點第二點也非常感謝范雲委員還有非常多的委員都長期支持剛才也很明確的提到就是公法的學者也確實都有說這樣子的做法是可以的柯之恩委員也非常明確做了非常深入的功課"},{"start":11616.641,"end":11641.583,"text":"柯市政委也非常長期的在研究這個議題現在提出這樣的支持我覺得是共識的一部分那第三點有說那我們是不是就修憲就好那我想這個真的會讓人非常憂心因為修憲的難度真的很高這個也是共識那我想現在既然有共識我們現在也支持那我們是不是就不要排除我們也許就把這個精神把它保留下來"},{"start":11642.544,"end":11665.632,"text":"讓他有一個機會也許在我們的青年基本法就可以用青年基本法的方式來提供公民參與的一個非常明確的一個方案謝謝好那我們是不是請因為牽扯到公法的問題喔我們是不是請法務部法務部我們專委喔參事不好意思汪參事來做一下說明好不好"},{"start":11670.177,"end":11698.334,"text":"是 昭緯跟各位委員各位先進 大家好有關這一個部分呢就誠如剛剛許多委員已經提到在二聲音大一點是 好事實上在這個選舉年齡從20歲降到18歲這個憲法修正案之前委員們都講得很清楚我們2022年3月通過而且提交公民複決但是是11月的公民複決的投票中是沒有通過那這個部分"},{"start":11699.795,"end":11727.15,"text":"立法院已經批准這個修憲案因為附決沒有通過可能如果下一次我們還希望再調降這樣的一個提案是不是要再度推動所以現在已經有憲法小組要做重新再做審議但是就這個部分因為涉及修憲的這個爭議那修憲的爭議是不是能夠同步我們另外用法律層次的基本法來做一個修正"},{"start":11728.497,"end":11750.779,"text":"這個解釋的層次可能需要更高一點以法務部的權責來講是沒有辦法來做這個是不是合適的一個或者是妥當的一個解釋所以可能還是建議這個部分如果需要再做確認的話可能是不是有選罷法相關的主管機關就是由內政部再來做先做評估"},{"start":11752.08,"end":11767.849,"text":"先做評估然後進入修憲小組來做討論在這個地方用法律的層次來處理可能是就法務部權責來講沒有辦法做這樣的一個解釋好 那我們先請范雲然後再請柯之恩好"},{"start":11769.348,"end":11793.414,"text":"因為剛剛柯志恩委員有講到說之前我的確跟吳佩儀委員我們有跟青年團體一起開記者會倡議把這個就是18歲公民權放到青年基本法中那我不知道在座的那個立委有沒有人真的去請教公法學者那當時我們開這個記者會的確請教了一些我認識的公法學者那他們認為這是可行的"},{"start":11794.114,"end":11816.509,"text":"但是也要跟大家報告一下那個記者會開完我後來提案出去之後我們又接到另外一群也是法學者他們就主張應該要修憲覺得這還是有違憲之語那我為了希望我的法條不要提出來有違憲之語的話我是因為這樣子把那個版本撤掉重新提了一個就其他部分也更周延的部分跟大家說明一下"},{"start":11816.909,"end":11841.193,"text":"我想這個部分因為這是專業的問題我是建議保留如果在政黨協商這邊因為大家知道18歲公民權應該是跨黨派都有共識就是理念上支持上一屆也是唯一出立法院的去公投的修憲條文既然這樣子的話我們是不是就保留不用在這邊辯論然後看政黨協商的結果好嗎好 以上"},{"start":11842.014,"end":11856.367,"text":"我認為可以保留這點我可以接受但是我對於法務部剛才的說法我還是有一點意見當你把它認為說要通過這個法令的時候一定完全是屬於這個修憲的層次你當然覺得法務部的層級不夠但今天我們就是要突破這一點"},{"start":11857.228,"end":11873.628,"text":"你可以在很多的功法學者裡面就是認為這樣的一個說法其實在青年基本法裡面你給它定義的話它其實也是或者是一個可行的一個方法但是我只是強調你從頭到尾都是把它取決於在這個修行的層次當中當然它的困難重重嘛"},{"start":11874.249,"end":11894.827,"text":"那青年基本法里面就是一个宣示的一个基本的一个大法里面我刚刚特别提到了你可以在这个东西揭示出来之后然后透过日出条款里面迫使大家能够重视这个法条之外能够在细节的这个部分里面不管是选罢法或是其他的部分里面大家共同来做这样一个配合因为也有很多公法学者"},{"start":11895.287,"end":11921.449,"text":"特别提到的它基本上是不违宪的它是不违宪刚刚我已经讲出非常多理由我们也请教了非常多的公法的一个学者所以我认为可以是保留但是不要把它完全是取决在推到所谓的宪法层次否则这个东西是永远是无解的好不好所以我的底线是我认为可以保留但是在这个保留的范围当中不管是透过各种的公听会或者什么方法千万只有个基本原则"},{"start":11921.809,"end":11929.819,"text":"不要認為只有修憲才有辦法保障這個18歲的公民權這樣的話就讓這樣的一個條文完全陷入死胡同當中"},{"start":11932.11,"end":11956.387,"text":"好 葛如君 張偉謝謝主席其實在最一開始有委員提出這樣子的提案的時候其實有青年朋友也覺得很受激勵我們也有一些委員覺得怎麼不是我們自己來把它放進去結果竟然提案的委員後來撤回了我覺得這個其實本來應該是有共識的也是有機會的柯志文委員也請教了很多青年跟學者"},{"start":11956.727,"end":11973.384,"text":"那我自己也負責很多青年的事務所以我覺得這個是應該有機會把它用增訂第四條之一的方式把它放進來那尤其我們剛剛聽到很多意見說我們就把它放到修憲其實我個人是覺得非常危險 為什麼因為我們現在有很多共識的法條"},{"start":11974.085,"end":11992.691,"text":"不管是要照顧兒少的權益不管是要照顧勞工的權益本來就已經有多年共識的東西我們都把它拖延說我們之後就會處理其實我覺得這樣子萬一那之後修憲沒有過呢我們又沒有放這條呢那青年朋友們因應其判是不是又落空我覺得這個其實是我們應該要拋開草野"},{"start":11995.552,"end":12007.602,"text":"用共識的一個方式去討論那當然我剛剛也提了我們贊成用保留的方式那我們希望在這個青年基本法我們有機會對青年參與公共事務有更具體的貢獻 謝謝好因為我們剛剛討論的幾乎就是柯之恩委員的這個四之一那可是我們第四條的本文"},{"start":12017.489,"end":12044.866,"text":"大家 如果沒有意見是不是就要按照願板通過那四之一 我們就保留 好不好OK 好 那我們進來第五條第五條其實跟第四條一樣齁 都是執掌的問題那大家有沒有意見如果沒有其他意見是不是我們就要按照願板通過好不好 好齁 好那第五條也按照願板通過好 我們進行第六條"},{"start":12047.079,"end":12070.498,"text":"第六條 這條是討論政府應建立這個青年參與的機制那 有關於應該是我們這個親雞法裡面喔青年公共參與的核心條文那大家有沒有意見好 陳秀寶陳秀寶 張雅玲 柯志恩 劉淑冰 郭育晴 范雲好 謝謝還有劉廷瑋"},{"start":12074.445,"end":12100.298,"text":"還有林月清 好 那我們先請秀寶謝謝主席 在這一條裡面因為我自己本身提案的條次是放在第四 那個沒關係我的條文內容是說政府應確保青年發展政策形成之公正與公開透明建立青年參與之常設機制並保障青年參與青年事務之權利"},{"start":12101.579,"end":12118.94,"text":"那這一條呢是希望說政府在制定青年發展政策的時候可以確實的傾聽青年的意見擴大青年公共參與讓青年政策能夠更符合青年的需求那我也尊重我們院版因為其實這樣子的文字跟這樣子的"},{"start":12120.682,"end":12137.834,"text":"規範是我們院版這邊他們也是很仔細的審酌過的但是我會很希望說就是強調說青年參與機制還是應該要嘗試才能夠真正的落實青年參與那這個部分等一下是不是請署長也說明一下以上"},{"start":12140.41,"end":12157.358,"text":"好 謝謝那我的第六條的部分呢最主要我是針對於第二項就是政府於遴選青年參與時應考量其代表型及對該等事物之熟悉度我認為這個該等事物之熟悉度這到底要如何的去衡量因為這非常的"},{"start":12158.078,"end":12186.285,"text":"字眼非常的模糊那再來就是說在針對於代表性的部分我把它定義得更清楚應該要考量其區域平衡年齡以及族群代表性然後我有提一個修正動議就是把性別加進去那這個部分的話我是希望大家可以來支持那另外我也參看了一下原基法原基法在講這個原住民族的代表的時候它其實也是看人口比例而已所以我認為這個代表性跟熟悉度應該要去做文字上面的調整 謝謝"},{"start":12189.448,"end":12191.854,"text":"好 那我們接下來請柯之恩委員"},{"start":12193.311,"end":12220.078,"text":"好 我這邊有提出一個修正動議對於第二項修正增列的第三項我覺得應該考量代表性還有對該等事物的熟悉度這個規範的力道我覺得不太夠所以我建議應該把它更明確一點當時我就提出來要確保身分的多元性包括性別 身心障礙者 原住民族以及其他具有特殊需求或背景之青年這樣才能夠達到不同"},{"start":12220.698,"end":12241.528,"text":"群體的意見都能夠獲得適當的一個表達還有呢我們也認為說任一個性別不得少於三分之一那我增訂的是制定適當的措施來保障不同身份群體的平等參與的機會我認為這樣的一個做法才可以讓它那個規範上面的明確度熟悉度能夠更完整一點 謝謝好 再來請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":12245.765,"end":12263.253,"text":"好 謝謝主席那民眾黨這邊的意見當中非常感謝有這樣子在第六條的這個部分在公共參與機制當中但是我們特別這邊花了一個比較大的一個篇幅在呈現出來就是說因為目前的這個參與機制當中對於參與的範圍到底參與公共機制的上面它並沒有明確性所以在我們的條文當中特別強調的在中央跟地方青年的發展匯報須要有"},{"start":12274.198,"end":12279.622,"text":"第二個部分是在各級政府的青年諮詢組織當中要呈現出來另外在參與資格的部分我們剛才有提到說不只是說到年齡的部分除了年齡要平均各個年齡都要有平均的分佈還包括性別比例還包括有弱勢青年這就是當初我們在第二條的時候定義當中出現的因為目前的機制就是沒有把弱勢青年放進去都是現在的優勢青年"},{"start":12302.881,"end":12327.577,"text":"他們沒辦法好好的解決問題才會出現到現在的還是很多的這種關於歧視不平等的情況會出現然後另外參與方式的部分我們還增加的是在於他要是參與的人這些青年代表他有權請求召開的個臨時會因為如果是到定期的話有特殊的這種必要的時候臨時的要求行情的話應該也給予青年代表這樣的一個權利所以我們常強調的這三項上面的一個重點"},{"start":12334.103,"end":12341.976,"text":"謝謝希望各政黨的代表能夠 委員們能夠來支持這才是真正能夠去落實保障到我們青年的公共參與的機制的實現 謝謝"},{"start":12344.465,"end":12370.624,"text":"好 再來請郭玉琴委員這一條其實聆聽青年們的意見並加以適當的採納我想是這一條的一個重點跟精神我的版本是放在第三條的部分強調政府應該要保障青年政策的形成是公正且公開透明也希望這個時下的青年們他們所期盼的是能夠讓他們對於政府的一個青年的政策給予信任"},{"start":12371.224,"end":12380.334,"text":"所以我的這個部分是放在第三條就是在保障青年參與的一個權利的部分好 以上好 我們接下來請范雲委員"},{"start":12382.919,"end":12406.622,"text":"這一條就是青年參與權的部分那我有幾個意見大概是主要是四個意見第一個就是這個政府的部分我的版本是前面加個級因為個級非常的重要因為從地方剛剛那個部長有講到現在地方政府包含原本說只有一個沒有那這兩天那個就是沒有的已經也有"},{"start":12407.402,"end":12427.032,"text":"青年諮詢的這個相關的機制所以現在把各級加進去其實現狀已經激進都有了所以有建議就是說各級政府要不然會看起來很像只在規範中央政府第二個我的版本有講到相關部會或局處並得提出世代影響分析報告"},{"start":12428.012,"end":12451.209,"text":"那這部分主要是因為其實永續權有的我們可以仿效性別人權評估跟人權影響評估因為其他的部會也有做過相關的部分那我看了別的委員包含在場的林月琴委員20條也有還有吳思耀委員的第19條所以這部分也希望教育部可以接受這是第二個意見"},{"start":12452.39,"end":12465.118,"text":"第三個意見就是關於我的版本的第二段有加一個本法所定目的事業主管機關制定青年相關政策法規及計畫時應納入青年參與"},{"start":12468.56,"end":12491.515,"text":"這個部分其實就會規範到譬如說內政部像青年住宅 社會住宅等別的部會我覺得也非常的重要因為我們現在講的是青年參與機制既然這麼多主管機關都有相關的事務我們要青年主流化的話你要有個方法也希望把本法所定的前面所講的目的事業主管機關"},{"start":12492.475,"end":12517.353,"text":"制定青年相關政策的時候要納入青年參與這個部分應該要明定喔那第四個就是關於蠻多委員有提到的產生方式及組成喔那我這個部分是參考現在中央兒少代表的制度那它其實是有一個蠻好的可以透過民主機制運作那這部分林益菁委員的修正動議我蠻支持的那張雅玲委員對於就是"},{"start":12518.807,"end":12537.903,"text":"區域平衡這些部分剛他有發言到我也蠻支持的那我看到就是說吳斯耀委員的提案也有把這個東西放進去就是多元區域平衡還有林一錦委員的修正動議就是用一個民主的方式能夠產生這個青年代表"},{"start":12538.243,"end":12566.906,"text":"那我覺得這個如果教育部是希望教育部能接受啦因為大家非常的在意這個去參與的權利到底是被指定還是能不能夠有一個更大的代表性那剛剛就是像民眾黨很關心的弱勢那如果這邊多元民主的其實空間就會很大所以希望能夠教育部也可以接受以上好 接下來請羅廷偉然後再來林月琴 萬美玲好"},{"start":12567.557,"end":12582.377,"text":"我想大家對於這個院版的內容其實我想大家所提到的代表性如何判斷青年的意見如何落實到政策大家都非常的關心到底是用什麼樣的形式去參與它的代表性然後以及機制"},{"start":12582.677,"end":12609.574,"text":"我希望還能夠有更具體的一個政策那不要說青年的意見如何落實到整個政府的政策裡面這也是我們後續很關注的到底要怎麼參與那參與完以後他的東西可以直接落實到政策這才是真正能夠關注青年參與公共事務並且落實公共事務最重要的所以我們希望說他不要只是形式上的一個參與以上"},{"start":12612.199,"end":12632.249,"text":"接下來林月琴委員我這裡提出一個新條文的版本早上就有修正動議不管是政院版還是我的版本前提都是要落實中央跟地方共同推動所以在聯合國的永續發展策略當中青年對國家政策議題的參與事實上是重中之重"},{"start":12632.769,"end":12648.96,"text":"所以只有充分參與青年對於國家政策才會能夠認同所以才能夠成為國家發展的夥伴所以我的條文裡面非常強調增加一個就是在保障多元代表的同時所以我希望能夠增加多元代表包括"},{"start":12649.881,"end":12668.173,"text":"性別 身心障礙者 原住民可是更重要的是我的條文裡邊認為要有配套的多元參與策略跟友善機制所以同時也要注意到是今天基本法年齡跨度從18到39應該要有一些不同年齡層所以我這邊也特別去提出來就是說"},{"start":12668.933,"end":12696.498,"text":"應該要規劃多元參與方式因為按照年齡不同還有其他特殊需求的背景的青年要規劃多元參與方式跟提供充分的支持來確保這種不同群體的意見均能夠獲得適當的表達這才是完備的因為非常強調那個多元性尤其事實上我剛剛提到18到35事實上年齡層本來就不同最後增加第三項就是"},{"start":12698.018,"end":12725.401,"text":"各級政府應該針對性別比例應該要去做考量以上 謝謝好 接下來請萬美玲委員好 謝謝昭葦我的版本的說明有三點第一個部分我們談到公正跟公開透明還有青年參與的常設機制我們要避免流於形式這個是非常重要一點目前其實雖然在中央行政院我們設有行政院親資會"},{"start":12727.322,"end":12756.525,"text":"但是這個各縣市我們看到其實也有七年諮詢會不過普遍看起來好像都屬於建言建議的一個性質而沒有真正參與相關政策的討論或者決策我們希望其實七年的參與不是在相關的時候作為點綴用而是要有實質的影響力從政策的設定到決策的過程當中都應該要確保七年意見被聽見並且更重要的是被採納第二個部分"},{"start":12757.885,"end":12779.634,"text":"從2015年開始行政院核定了七年發展政策綱領我們在其中明確的揭示了健康力、創學力、公民力、全球力、就業力跟幸福力等六大面向也訂定了相關的具體推動的策略同時也透過付表清楚的揭示各項推動策略的主則部會"},{"start":12781.114,"end":12808.183,"text":"但是這個青年發展政策綱領核定到現在其實已經超過8年了儘管各部會我們都各別想辦法要努力的去執行青年政策不過卻缺乏了跨部會的整合機制以及對這個綱領各項施政目標的追蹤還有檢討的機制這都是在過去我們看到所缺乏的同時我們希望中央不要只有鼓勵地方用鼓勵的方式不夠"},{"start":12808.763,"end":12834.028,"text":"我們應該要提供明確的指引還有相關的資源來協助地方可以建立可以持續有效運作的青年參與平台要不然其實地方如果沒有一個可以統一一群的指引各地方各自行事恐怕將來是難以跟中央有系統的合作所以在我提案的版本當中我想這幾個是我比較在意的重點以上"},{"start":12835.646,"end":12857.969,"text":"好 那第六條因為我覺得是一個青年公共參與的核心條文所以我在這一條也有一個修正動議可是我想提出的是說有幾點想要跟大家討論說比較細節的內容像具體的性別比例保障是不是可以交給行政規則的某某組織設置要點比較合適"},{"start":12859.21,"end":12884.507,"text":"或者說我們基本法這裡是不是應該比較精神上的條文規定原則性的規範就好因為它就是一個基本法一個上位法那另外我的修正動議是有講說臨聘青年參與時要注重民主原則的實踐譬如說臨聘過程應該公開透明或循各類民主程序產生那這份修正動議再請教育部參考"},{"start":12886.368,"end":12905.461,"text":"民進黨團有多位委員也有提出一個修正動議在第二項有進行大幅度的修改在聆聘青年參與除了考量其代表性與對事務熟悉性有加入背景多元性區域平衡另外也有加入規劃民主多元參與方式及充分"},{"start":12906.201,"end":12913.692,"text":"提供充分的支持我想這個就可以一併來討論我想大家那麼多的意見是不是請教育部這裡來做一些綜合的回應"},{"start":12922.162,"end":12946.408,"text":"好 那這邊謝謝委員以上的相關建議那這個部分我來說明一下目前我們在這個院版的條文裡面其實二十七條我們也有提到在行政院跟執銷室還有縣市政府這邊應設置青年事務發展匯報那這邊也有提到青年代表不得低於委員總數的二分之一同樣的就是同條文二十七條的第三項也有提到說各級政府的設置"},{"start":12947.068,"end":12963.239,"text":"青年諮詢組織那麼積極來透過各項的機制保障青年參與的權益所以剛才提到委員所關心的可能要有性別啦或是多元的一些代表民主程序等等那這邊我們是比較傾向就是在未來我們這個"},{"start":12965.98,"end":12980.013,"text":"鎖定的一些會報或規範我們在這個長設機制代表這些細節還有會議召開的期程我們可以透過這個另地設置要點這邊來做比較細部的規範所以這個部分我們是建議說"},{"start":12981.454,"end":13003.483,"text":"在這個 剛才委員有提出一些修正的動議或是建議我們再補充進去那其實目前整個青年署在青年的公共參議部分我們也非常的重視目前當然除了我們的青年的行政院院親自會議之外我們在各地的青年我們的青年諮詢組織我們都有"},{"start":13004.984,"end":13019.322,"text":"全國的青年諮詢組織的交流會同時也鼓勵青年進行所謂的Let's Talk青年好政的參與這個部分目前大概就是各個相關的公共議題也都有"},{"start":13020.283,"end":13039.165,"text":"七年來暢所欲言同時之後在所提出的一些策略建議也跟各部會在最後的一個結論建言跟各部會對接也納入各部會的一個相關的政策理念一起去推動所以在這個部分我們目前就是在"},{"start":13040.046,"end":13060.207,"text":"未來的一個青年的公共參與機制部分我們希望在我們的另訂要點裡面來訂定這個規範然後來持續支持這個落實推動的一個部分以上補充好 那部長先做回應再請柯志恩委員還有林月琴委員"},{"start":13063.624,"end":13082.711,"text":"謝謝各位委員我想這第六條確實怎麼樣去確保青年的充分參與跟建立公平的參與機制考量剛才委員所說的背景的多樣性 區域的平衡是不是就這一條裡面有一些具體的委員"},{"start":13084.171,"end":13100.749,"text":"中參各位委員剛才非常有價值的一個建議是不是第六條裡面確實是可以把它納進各級政府然後鼓勵第二行裡面鼓勵青年充分參與建立青年公平參與的機制"},{"start":13102.631,"end":13128.784,"text":"然後在第二項裡邊就是把它代表性後面納進背景的多元性區域的平衡以及對該等事物的熟悉性規劃民主多元參與方式來提供充分的一些支持我想參佐委員所提的是不是把它做這樣的一個納進來有相對的完整性 以上"},{"start":13130.58,"end":13138.737,"text":"好部長有一些對文字的修正沒關係 柯政委員你要不要答"},{"start":13141.334,"end":13160.911,"text":"對 在部長沒有講話之前我舉手我就是覺得說雖然我提的比較細節但我主要是認為當初就是送過來這個版本裡面的這個代表性跟所謂的熟悉程度這個規範力道不夠我本來想說我剛剛看到林一錦委員所提的修正動議的最後一款我個人認為是可以去做一個討論"},{"start":13161.952,"end":13190.611,"text":"因為我這邊也提到了背景的多元只是我把這個多元把它包括了很多項那既然是大法的話我認為是可以用一個縱觀的方式所以只要是有提出這個背景的多元性然後有民主的多元的參與的形式只要把這個精神比原本的條文能夠更加的顯現的話我是可以支持的所以我在舉手之後才看到部長所寫的對不起老人家可以把字放大一點你要我們做這麼厚面看不到了"},{"start":13192.232,"end":13221.449,"text":"那个字体放大一点可不可以那个红字那个刚刚说的各级号的谢谢这个部分里面有多少反映出来因为你有一个背景的多元度所以这个部分里面因为我只是希望能够把那个背景的这个层面还有区域的平衡最主要多元的参与这是部长刚刚所特别提到的我觉得这个版本本质上面这个方向是可以接受的谢谢"},{"start":13226.229,"end":13251.963,"text":"好 那個 林月琴委員因鼓勵青年充分參與建立公平建立青年公平參與機制吧 還是公平青年 青年在放在青年後面吧 公平"},{"start":13254.178,"end":13283.257,"text":"公平參與機制好 那李月琴 不好意思我覺得當然現在看起來有把我的有部分納進去說規劃多元參與方式跟提供充分支持可是我這個的前提是因為等下18歲甚至前面那條還沒討論到是要跨到45歲那就會變成是我們現在兒少委員會的那種狀況國小的很難參與國中的也很難參與高中很容易參與所以我為什麼會寫說不同年齡層"},{"start":13284.298,"end":13312.308,"text":"跟其他特殊需求跟背景的青年才會要求說要規劃多元可是少掉這些字的話就會差異很大你雖然講規劃多元你沒有去考慮到不同年齡層的參與方式也沒有考慮到有具有特殊需求的背景的青年的參與否則就會變成說參與的還是大多數就像我現在看兒少幾乎都是高中很難讓國中國小的參與為什麼因為你方式的多元可是你先漏掉這些字我擔心的是最後還是沒有達到我們想要的"},{"start":13314.062,"end":13330.813,"text":"好 我們請雅玲委員 然後最後劉淑冰委員然後還有范雲委員那個 不好意思 我插一下話那剛剛月晴委員講的我覺得有道理 可是如果再加上文字上會不會比較就是比較雜可不可以用附帶決議來處理 月晴委員"},{"start":13332.148,"end":13346.859,"text":"月請 我說妳剛剛的建議啊如果用附帶決議來處理 妳覺得怎麼樣也可以 就是我覺得最主要要考慮那是不是請教部在妳個月請委員的那個意見的附帶決議 我們來看文字看看好 再來請張雅玲 然後劉淑冰 然後范芸"},{"start":13347.239,"end":13374.501,"text":"我還是兩個問題啦就是說考量其代表性跟對熟悉度這兩個詞其實是相對模糊的這到底要如何的去實務上運用呢我要怎麼樣才叫做代表性怎麼樣才叫做熟悉度那所以對我來說我覺得這兩個詞放在這裡就會變成是每一個各級單位各級政府在平衡的時候這一把尺是非常不一致的所以我是不是可以不要寫這個代表性跟熟悉度呢"},{"start":13379.72,"end":13398.844,"text":"對部長說代表性拿掉沒差啦因為後面有寫多元有多元還有區域平衡所以那個已經有涵蓋了啦對那熟悉度的部分呢因為什麼叫做夠熟悉這個各級政府會非常不理智可是這個熟悉度到底是怎麼樣對 這個定義上很模糊啊"},{"start":13406.947,"end":13413.474,"text":"可以不用喔剛剛再來是要請誰蘇冰 先留蘇冰然後再來范芸"},{"start":13420.56,"end":13424.082,"text":"好 謝謝主席剛才叫了我一聲疏兵我覺得倍感親切這一部分剛才我也呼應一下林月琴委員這部分她有提到說各個年齡層的這種代表性其實真的要去加入因為目前的優勢你可能就集中在參與的部分可是在比較年輕的或是在年紀有大的部分這邊是不是有代表性參與也是很重要的"},{"start":13445.933,"end":13458.066,"text":"另外的部分是在於說我也想到說包括的是這個弱勢的部分我一直想到弱勢青年是不是也包括在這個多元性當中因為這個部分"},{"start":13460.489,"end":13474.981,"text":"部分是大家所堅持的就是目前對於現階段的參與機制的代表性其實是多元性是有疑義的所以我在想說是不是也要做一個附帶決議的方式就是請未來在教育部在做這個"},{"start":13477.463,"end":13503.399,"text":"多元參與的部分的一個辦法的時候這可能是行政命令的部分那是不是也應該要讓立法院要有一個充分參與的才可以把現在我們在委員當中這麼多的意見而且已經注意到這些目前所呈現的問題能夠把它落實起來所以我是希望說剛才主席所提到李月琴委員的這部分的部分我是希望說這個辦法是能夠代表性的這個或是說多元性的這樣這個辦法行政"},{"start":13505.12,"end":13520.425,"text":"教育部所提出來這部分 能夠讓就是說 到時候讓立法院能夠來做審議 謝謝或是說 要參考我們的意見這樣子進去 謝謝好 那再來范雲 然後吳思瑤然後 月琴委員"},{"start":13522.011,"end":13546.638,"text":"我們第六條討論完之後 我們就休息了來吃午飯 謝謝我剛剛有發言到有些部分放進去了就是說產生方式的民主多元的部分我是建議把那個不管是年齡 性別 族群障礙等不利處境就是所謂弱勢部分可以用說明文字的部分把它點一下立法說明裡頭"},{"start":13547.618,"end":13565.053,"text":"另外就是我剛剛的版本還有漏掉的一個是世代影響評估因為這部分C1委員跟林月琴委員也都有不知道教育部覺得能不能放在法條中還有另外一個就是我有多一個我想問大家是不是能夠在各級政府後面加上"},{"start":13565.774,"end":13593.631,"text":"本法所定的目的事業主管機關因為如果沒有這個的話那我們前面定義的像什麼內政部的那個社會住宅等跟青年相關事情的部分就都會沒有一個參與機制了就能不能在各級政府後面加上本法所定目的事業主管機關制定相關的部分的時候那這部分就比較能夠做到真的青年主流化對"},{"start":13595.213,"end":13599.803,"text":"好 那請教育部回應一下好 我們再來請思瑤 然後月晴謝謝"},{"start":13603.571,"end":13625.836,"text":"現在是這樣 我提供一點點參考大家看看怎麼樣因為我去思考了前面因為很多東西是規範各級政府地方政府或是中央目的事業主管機關所以我自己是在第六條因為這個部分要做的是不只中央 不只地方所以我把它分了幾個層次一個叫做國家"},{"start":13626.576,"end":13642.284,"text":"我自己在第六條我是用國家然後後面有一些東西是中央跟各級政府或地方政府所以如果用一個國家因為這也是文化基本法的經驗來的一些都要做的事情就用國家"},{"start":13642.904,"end":13671.097,"text":"你就不會落入剛剛那個范雲文說的是不是要中央目的事業主管機關所以大家如果同意的話把它層次分清楚用國家來處理這是文化基本法的經驗第二個我的那個什麼影響評估世代影響評估我拿掉了對不起我後來覺得不用了但是呢在第二項的部分請大家再思考一下我認為代表性三個字是需要的它的代表性指的是也許我們要面對很多青年團體"},{"start":13673.264,"end":13688.794,"text":"團體的推派的那個代表性它跟背景多元性不一定一樣背景多元性是說剛剛講的有弱勢的啦有不同的背景專業的啦所以代表性我是認為它是真的就是青春團體非常在乎的"},{"start":13690.646,"end":13708.518,"text":"的那個部分所以大家是不是能夠把代表性放回來因為它真的跟背景多元區是不一樣的事情我真的覺得這是團體們非常在意的所以是把代表性可以放進來然後其他那個事物的熟悉度我的條文有啦但我覺得那可以拿掉沒關係啦"},{"start":13709.378,"end":13728.562,"text":"願意來的他有代表性又有多元性他勢必對於公共事務青年事務是關心的所以第二項能不能夠把代表性放回來我試圖說明一下說服一下大家然後把各級政府就改成國家因為後面很多條都會面對到同樣的問題是請就教育大家 謝謝好 再來請月琴委員"},{"start":13733.983,"end":13751.493,"text":"我這邊也很支持剛才士堯講一定要用國家這樣層級才會出來而且的確整個政策應該是國家所以我也同意那至於我剛剛提的這些東西我本來就已經同意是附帶局剛剛蘇冰委員講到說我這個要不要因為我覺得基本法太"},{"start":13752.777,"end":13780.657,"text":"寫得太雜那也是會一個問題所以我認為我的部分這些我都同意事實上發揮而且這邊已經有把我很重要的像多元性還有多元參與跟那個提供充分支持都有列入了所以我反而是不同年齡層的這個部分我可以放到後邊去以上好好 那雅玲先雅玲然後再范雲應該是說我覺得代表性要放的話就變成是實務上執行上要怎麼樣去具體的去整"},{"start":13781.846,"end":13791.305,"text":"就是說當我們實務上各個到底要怎麼樣才叫做代表性這件事情我是比較不太確定實務上你們教育部跟青年署你們在執行的時候要怎麼去定義這件事情是定義的問題"},{"start":13793.919,"end":13817.655,"text":"好 那再來范芸我是要最後 劉淑冰謝謝思耀委員剛剛那個用國家我可以接受用它來涵蓋就是說目的事業主管機關只要制定青年相關政策的時候就要納入青年的參與是第一個那個世代影響評估不知道教育部這邊如果覺得放在文字中不行的話是不是我這邊有準備一個附帶決議"},{"start":13819.136,"end":13832.911,"text":"就是讓教育部看一下怎麼修改部分那那個多元跟弱勢的部分我剛剛有建議說放在立法說明那如果教育部可以同意的話你們就可以去擰然後大家還可以再看好 以上好 劉淑檳委員"},{"start":13836.38,"end":13863.857,"text":"好 謝謝主席關於剛才所說的這些包括有弱勢還有多元背景等等還包括代表性當然都是很重要只是現在還有各個年齡層的部分可是這個部分現在是一個空白的授權當然我現在就想說剛才李月琦委員那部分我可能沒有完全聽清楚就是說應該要有希望說應該有一個附帶決議的部分那現在我想問一下教育部對於說用一個附帶決議知道未來在"},{"start":13865.558,"end":13883.888,"text":"制定這樣的一個參與的程序機制當中是否可以讓立法院教文委員會來做一個至少是備查等等的包括意見的或是尊重立法院教文委員會的意見這樣的一個附帶決議是不是可以把它放進來我想聽聽看教育部的意見是怎麼樣 謝謝好 再來吳思瑤那不好意思 我如果沒有聽錯的話月琴講的附帶決議跟舒冰委員講的不一樣"},{"start":13894.366,"end":13913.74,"text":"我是認為如果組成的東西用附帶決議要又把立法院教委員會的意見審查或什麼備查放進來我是覺得真的不要我們要去掉政治的干預去掉這些東西所以這些組成真的不要有立法院什麼東西要送立法院我覺得"},{"start":13914.64,"end":13924.872,"text":"這就會有政治力的干預了所以再思考一下好嗎但是就我的理解月琴的附帶決議跟舒冰委員說什麼要透過立法院才能夠好像是完全不一樣的事情"},{"start":13926.548,"end":13944.956,"text":"我說明一下 因為我的是說 我原來修正動議的有些沒辦法列進去的 我用附帶決議來做說明之後 再來提出來這樣子 以上那我們現在來看這個本文好不好 第六條 有一些附帶決議的部分我們等一下再來討論 如果大家"},{"start":13947.137,"end":13969.431,"text":"同意這個本文的話我們看一下就是說各級政府改國家OK嗎大家如果覺得OK的話就是一個中央一致性的好 那改國家國家於制定政策法規於計劃及計劃時應鼓勵青年充分參與建立青年公平參與機制保障青年參與之權利"},{"start":13971.58,"end":13990.723,"text":"國家與林聘青年參與時應考量其代表性背景多元性及區域平衡並規劃民主多元參與方式及提供充分支持大家對這些文字修正之後如果"},{"start":13991.644,"end":14014.778,"text":"沒有什麼太大意見主席主席有一下意見 第二我覺得第一項是沒問題 可是第二項國家於聆聘青年參與時國家是一個 例如說中華民國在聆聘不是國家 應該所以第二項應該是應該是政府嘛 對吧 對吧對啊 是啊 是啊對啊 對嘛說不定所言甚是啊對 政府政府各級政府啦 好不好"},{"start":14020.956,"end":14039.231,"text":"好 那第二項就是各級政府與聆聘青年參與時大家OK好好 雅玲我還是希望教育部可以簡單說明一下這個代表性的定義到時候你們會怎麼去操作因為這個是一個實務上的問題是不是可以簡單說明一下好 那教育部說明一下"},{"start":14043.027,"end":14066.71,"text":"這部分我們就以比如說院親自來講的話我們會有比如說像各部會會去考量這個青年的性別或是他的專業他的一些比例年齡等等所以這個代表性的話我們會比較就未來就是說他的性別年齡或族群地區或是一些障礙等等不同的一個身分別我們一併去考量"},{"start":14068.131,"end":14094.704,"text":"不同部會裡面的那個專業譬如說剛才大家在關心人權或者這個氣候變遷或者青年創業它事實上來自於不同部會裡面它就有許多不同領域剛才委員所關心的我們也希望它能夠充分反映來自於不同這個部會裡面這個青年所關心的議題的一些來顯示它的一些代表性"},{"start":14096.744,"end":14124.865,"text":"所以這裡面就是我們也是凸顯出青年主流化的部分那這個未來在這個各相關的專業啦或是一些領域跟性別或年齡這邊都一定去考量那不好意思我有一個小小的建議請教導問一下那這個是不是聽起來是跟那如果是這樣改成因考量其背景多元性及區域平衡之代表性呢因為聽起來比較像是這樣子你們剛解釋聽起來語句比較像是這樣子耶可是這跟思瑤講的好像有點不太一樣"},{"start":14129.068,"end":14157.934,"text":"不太一樣耶其實我說的是團體的代表性啦我說的是團體的代表性你是對於青年議題熟悉的代表性還是對於各個專業領域背景的代表性這兩個完全不一樣我們講的應該是青年的代表性啦因為畢竟這是要促進青年的公共事務參與直接寫進去呢不然這樣子我覺得會這個代表性你看現在解釋就有點不太一樣了"},{"start":14160.692,"end":14181.478,"text":"我是認為我個人是認為這樣寫彈性比較大啦你寫得越死彈性越小那當然實務上面操作就可能會回到就是背景專業的代表性這就會變成我們原本的利益可是是青年剛剛他們回答的是好像是青年團體的代表性"},{"start":14187.833,"end":14201.204,"text":"各位委員報告因為不同的團體他所關心的議題事實上是不同的比如說有人關心那個性別有的關心人權有的關心氣候變遷有的關心年輕創業或者"},{"start":14203.746,"end":14232.452,"text":"就是说他本来这个青年的不同的团体他会有一些主题的诉求我想这也是为什么我们今天在讨论青年基本法里边事实上是从他的学习到就业到我想这里边事实上也反映到不同的团体部长其实我的意见只是说因为这东西定下去之后各级主管机关去执行的时候可能就会在这里 confuse 的啦这个代表性如果没有非常明确的话"},{"start":14234.313,"end":14258.371,"text":"我建議說我們在立法說明裡面把那個代表性跟背景多元用就是說先列舉一些比較常見的年齡 性別 族群 障礙等不利處境或議題關注等這樣子是不是說明文字嘛那加個等就是有空大家有覺得嚴重沒有忽略的就放進來因為剛剛大家有提到就這幾點嘛"},{"start":14259.292,"end":14287.625,"text":"年齡 性別 族群障礙等不利處境或議題關注之類的這樣等這樣好 就立法說明上嘛OK OK那這個立法說明是要教育部要你給我們看嗎還是說我們就授權他們我們好 那再來葉源芝委員然後再來吳思瑤"},{"start":14289.704,"end":14317.331,"text":"因為我這一條我原本我的版本是如果政府要訂定青年政策的時候應該鼓勵青年參與因為現在改成是制定政策法規計畫都要鼓勵青年參與所以是各部會或是各縣市政府的各局處只要是有制定各種政策法規計畫的時候都要青年參與而且青年參與要有考量他們的代表性背景多元跟區域平衡這樣這要怎麼執行可以"},{"start":14321.418,"end":14348.061,"text":"是這樣嗎就是只要各個政策都要有青年參與現在各政府就這樣所以各部會在訂定各種政策都要請青年都要請青年來參與青年的政策他這邊沒有寫說跟青年有關因為原本我們的條文是寫跟青年有關的政策但這邊是制定各種政策因為這是青年基本法裡面的政策"},{"start":14351.969,"end":14378.918,"text":"對 我知道 我知道但你的條文這樣寫會不會讓人家誤會會讓人家以為說國家只要制定各種政策因為我們希望青年參與所以各種政策都要有青年參與當然這就是青年主流化這就是我們在推的青年主流化因為各個部會文化部也好國發會也好或數發部也好在制定相關的東西都要有青年的觀點對 沒有相關啦這邊沒有講相關"},{"start":14381.71,"end":14395.665,"text":"對啊 所以第一大項在處理的是讓青年主流化落實在中央的各部會跟地方各級政府的跨局處所以這就是青年主流化的意義第一項在處理這個"},{"start":14397.219,"end":14415.54,"text":"那你回去看一下第一條第一條開宗明義就有講了啦然後呢第二項因為剛剛大家對於代表性有一點糾結我再提供一個思考的方式讓我尊重大家共同的決定大家看看行政院的提案原始提案的第二項他其實就寫得很清楚"},{"start":14416.829,"end":14435.185,"text":"行政院原始提案的第二項他寫的是說政府於聆聘青年參與時應考量其代表性及對該等事物之熟悉度所以他同時在處理兩件事一個是青年團體的代表性他代表青年本身這個年齡層"},{"start":14437.327,"end":14454.295,"text":"的代表性以及另外一種代表性就是用對該等事物的熟悉他可能是人權的可能是文化的可能是環境永續的可能是性平的所以如果回到因為剛剛有委員在提到說代表性指的是什麼"},{"start":14455.055,"end":14479.466,"text":"那我自己對於代表性的認知它是包括兩個層面一個是對於青年這個身份的代表性另一個層面是對於青年所關切的現在的跨領域的議題本身的代表性所以用行政院原本的條文的第二項可以有助於我們去理解所謂代表性的這件事情所以部長剛剛講的是一半啦但是事實上"},{"start":14480.126,"end":14498.812,"text":"回到你們原本的條文就是這個意思那到底要不要放進條文我都認為這個要用附帶決議或是用說明文字都可以我認為大家知道那是什麼一回事重點在執行所以代表性有人覺得不要放我是有點可惜啦但我尊重大家"},{"start":14499.833,"end":14518.636,"text":"那我再說明一下就是我覺得認為的是代表性這三個字是不確定所以如果我們可以在立法說明把它列舉清楚的話我覺得會更幫助各縣各級政府在解讀的時候好沒問題 這個沒問題好 劉淑冰好 謝謝主席剛才像張雅琳委員跟那個司藥委員都有提到這一個部分"},{"start":14519.176,"end":14533.857,"text":"就是說這邊的代表性其實真的很抽象模糊那這沒錯但是可是事實上目前也都是用代表性來去呈現但是實際上在操作的地方如果它有幾十名的名額或是一二十名的名額當中怎麼去呈現"},{"start":14534.958,"end":14562.816,"text":"所以才包括像趙委所說 主席所說的是不是把它放在立法議席上面把它呈現出來或者是用附帶決議好像司法委員也並不反對嘛 對不對所以我覺得這部分因為這才是重點啊 重中之重如果沒有把這些放進去的話代表性完全是由行政單位交易部來去決定的話那又還是可能從道復生因為不用修訂就是最好的方法啊我覺得這部分要我們作為教委委員會的委員就是要這才是真正決策上面的核心 謝謝"},{"start":14564.682,"end":14575.895,"text":"或是說請教育部來提供這邊的意見然後怎麼樣的去處理我們的關心點好 因為我們這個條文還有六個附帶決議等一下我們要處理喔然後所以現在我們是在我們還是確認一下如果本條文沒有問題我們現在就來討論立法說明的部分好不好那我們請部長說明一下"},{"start":14587.799,"end":14604.088,"text":"感謝各位委員這個我們充分的討論確實是有助於我們法條上的一個周延性不過還真的是基本法基本上我們還是都會用比較位階上位階的一個概括性的抽象性的然後再來做一個"},{"start":14605.089,"end":14628.67,"text":"原則性的上一些指引那後端的一個代表性才變成一個公部門在執行的時候他有一些反映那個代表性的精神所以我想代表性納進來事實上很多的時候他確實是質疑會比較抽象但是我們實際執行態讓我們公部門在執行這個精神的時候他一定要把這個精神納進來"},{"start":14630.171,"end":14651.847,"text":"所以我在想說基本上因為我看有許多的委員對代表性還是有一些主張我認為這個是並沒有衝突的因為就法令的精神上來講它確實有它的價值性大概所以是不是如果也請委員能夠支持大概是這樣"},{"start":14653.359,"end":14680.707,"text":"那另外有關剛才在談世代的影響評估這個研究我覺得對年輕的許多的政策的推動到底對或者許多的社會發展對年輕世代有什麼樣的衝擊我覺得公部門本來就應該要有這個以實際性的評估有一段時間一段時間他就應該有一些評估的影響作為政策滾動式的修正我覺得這個部分"},{"start":14681.767,"end":14689.241,"text":"是不是在行政的一個實際的作為可以把它納入到這個那個附帶決議裡面來做這個來呈現以上補充 謝謝"},{"start":14695.796,"end":14718.252,"text":"好 那時間的關係喔那如果這個條文大家沒有意見那我們就這樣修正通過好不好好 謝謝大家那立法說明喔我們就授權教育部那可是要顧及剛剛提到的這個年齡 性別 族群還有這個障礙等不利處境還有這個議題關注"},{"start":14722.427,"end":14740.977,"text":"這相關的這個要考量 這個立法說明要寫一下好 那我們來討論這個附帶決議 有六個第一個好 第一個大家手上有資料范雲 范雲委員就有三個附帶決議 是不是請范雲委員說明一下"},{"start":14742.376,"end":14764.716,"text":"我第一個就是剛剛講到的那個世代影響評估機制那就是有鑒於行政院有人權影響評估然後但是對於青年整體的世代並沒有影響評估那我本來是訂三個月那剛剛教育部這邊是說九個月那我可以接受九個月內規劃並提出以青年世代正義為目的之世代影響評估機制這是我的第一個"},{"start":14765.336,"end":14791.905,"text":"那第二個是剛剛有提到就是青年主流化怎麼運作因為青年事務分散於各個部會那為了落實這件事我也請行政院我是寫三個月內於本法所定目的事業主管機關就像內政部啊其他那些及青年事務相關委員會然後就為聘任者聘任青年代表因為現在有一些部會並沒有青年相關事務沒有聘任"},{"start":14793.185,"end":14821.208,"text":"這個部分剛剛教育部也有修正過就是就為聘任者 聘任青年代表實現可以讓三個月如果太短的話你們可以延長第三個就是剛剛大家講的代表性有鑒於青年參與機制應保障多元身分並以民主機制運作為宜例如參考過去中央兒少代表制度我就不把它唸完等等就援請教育部會同地方政府"},{"start":14821.969,"end":14840.146,"text":"我本來寫三個月教育部希望是六個月我可以接受於六個月內針對青年代表多元組成和民主運作提出機制規劃那這樣子大家就可以針對不管是叫做設置要點等等跟教育部再行那個協商討論以上"},{"start":14843.593,"end":14867.531,"text":"謝謝好 那針對范雲委員的附帶決議教育部我們先從范雲這三個來講好不好那教育部有什麼意見嗎就三個月改六個月之外呢第一個附帶決議就是世代影響評估的一個機制是九個月變九個月 好然後第二個是"},{"start":14876.734,"end":14884.357,"text":"第二個六個月 第三個也是六個月請到我們尊重辦理部長說明這個有六個月嗎"},{"start":14893.392,"end":14908.764,"text":"好 那范雲委員這三個附帶決議就這樣子修正通過那另外還有吳思瑤委員吳思瑤委員有兩個"},{"start":14922.355,"end":14951.447,"text":"附帶決議54號委員妳要不要說明一下或者讓教育部說明就因為這是補強了條文本來在條文寫得比較細的東西我就沒有放了用附帶決議來執行然後看看教育部如果可以的話就照著因為妳都沒有寫時間啦所以教育部應該不會有意見對啊 不會有意見嘛我把條文裡面比較細的拿到附帶決議來好 那部長說OK教育部好 那我們就這樣子通過"},{"start":14953.659,"end":14961.861,"text":"還有 還有月晴的月晴的的附帶決議 教育部還沒有來齁那 月晴呢有附帶決議"},{"start":14984.321,"end":15007.051,"text":"是第六條的嗎不是 是第三條的下午再處理第三條是保留的所以本文保留我們現在就是根據剛才保留的部分要先做一個附帶說明妳願意不保留不是 我們有附帶決議這個部分如果可以的話妳本文的保留啊不是保留 但是"},{"start":15007.671,"end":15036.693,"text":"你如果本文同意教育部啊就可以現在來看你的附帶決議你會同意教育部嗎你文本要先過不然來講附帶決議你如果可以支持教育部啊現在就看這條支持教育部是不是好啊 那可以回頭看啊在早上結束之前把這一條要進也不錯那把書兵的附帶決議印給大家 謝謝有了好 那本文"},{"start":15037.782,"end":15042.025,"text":"等一下 我們現在還是第六條 趕快處理一下 第六條月琴的還在簽喔還在簽 那我們就爬環桃喔"},{"start":15054.332,"end":15067.859,"text":"好啦那第六條我們就這樣喔本文就這樣通過修正通過然後第六條的附帶決議我們剛剛也修正通過五個好那剩一個等月情的那現在我們回到第三條"},{"start":15069.554,"end":15095.555,"text":"本文齁 就是教育部有教育部主管機關那這個部分大家同意齁那就這樣子什麼什麼我們有附帶決議要討論啊對 本文先過關然後再來附帶決議啊沒有 先附帶決議再確定本文好不好好好好 都聽妳的都聽妳的好 那附帶決議附帶決議沒過那本文不是過了就完了不是嗎"},{"start":15098.596,"end":15110.255,"text":"趙承旭來講是條文過了才會處理附帶決議但沒有關係我們先看附帶決議趙承旭是條文過了才有好沒問題好我們特別特別配合"},{"start":15135.952,"end":15137.372,"text":"現在教育部在看"},{"start":15141.232,"end":15155.138,"text":"國發會國發會是協同而已啊應該可以啦國發會是協同你們嗎對啦 國發會是協同好啦是機器機器機器因為蛋打機用嘛是法規規規規規規規規規規"},{"start":15159.02,"end":15173.971,"text":"請協同教育部不是教育部國發會協同教育部這文字上是不是再修正一下文字上是國發會協同教育部那是不是後面那個就是請教育部國發會"},{"start":15176.175,"end":15197.856,"text":"共同於三個月內制定跨部會溝通及政策協調實施辦法這樣子 謝謝機制 協調機制兩方面真的需要合作啦 協調對 謝謝建立這一個協調機制所以那個時間是不是也三個月半年可以嗎好啦"},{"start":15199.062,"end":15210.993,"text":"六個月啦請教育部頓號國發會於六個月內制定跨部會溝通與政策實施協調機制講好嗎對 機制好"},{"start":15213.001,"end":15235.825,"text":"好喔 好喔 好喔 那就這樣子時間是六個月嗎 對 十三個月六個月 六個月因為一般的那個條例通過的執法也都是六個月的時間好 好 謝謝說明好 謝謝 謝謝 謝謝舒冰委員那我們文字喔 我再做最後的確認喔就是在第四行第四行"},{"start":15237.728,"end":15255.604,"text":"就是我們第四行因國發會有嚴考列管之權者這個就刪掉了好不好就直接請教育部頓號國發會於六個月內有沒有要相關政策主管 不用"},{"start":15256.585,"end":15280.417,"text":"要 要 要 這其實都涉及到因為教育部如果他的清發署是要負責主責的主管機關的話這邊絕對是要跟其他的包括還有叫勞動部什麼什麼之類的這部分那如果很確定的話那到時候的這個協調機制就透過這部分把它確定下來還是重要的好 那我再唸一次就是說第四行改成請教育部頓號國發會"},{"start":15284.328,"end":15311.952,"text":"與相關政策主管機關於六個月內制定跨部會溝通及政策實施協調機制OK齁 可以 謝謝好好好那我們這個劉淑冰委員的這個附帶決議我們就讓修正通過那第三條就這樣按照院版通過好那我們現在修 欸等一下還有林悅琴的附帶決議還有林悅琴的附帶 愛悅琴呢"},{"start":15313.999,"end":15335.574,"text":"人呢不然就先休息了啦 好不好 那個下午再處理了我們休息一個小時好不好那就那就那就不用啦 那就兩點啦因為剩沒多久啊還是一點半喔"},{"start":15336.926,"end":15344.43,"text":"一點四十一點四十啦我們把握時間讓大家早點結束好一點四十我們繼續開會"},{"start":15360.657,"end":15366.098,"text":"他又要把你變成主角還是國發的主角"},{"start":18566.223,"end":18583.519,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會 那早上我們討論到第六條喔還有一個附帶決議 那個林月琴委員的附帶決議喔 那現在我發在各位的桌子上 大家可以看一下那本席是覺得 因為剛剛我們在討論的時候 在本文"},{"start":18584.733,"end":18601.5,"text":"有寫國家有寫各級政府改成國家所以我們是不是就跟本文一樣喔就是說第一行各級政府改成國家那再來都一樣那這個是李月琴的復來決議那因為月琴還沒有到所以"},{"start":18603.107,"end":18626.733,"text":"好 來 玉琴我代替她發言一下因為這個我有連署這個部分其實我們就是針對第二款的部分就是各級政府與聆聘青年參與時這個後面應該都是一樣所以其實應該沒有什麼太大的我們就按照這個版本那就第一行改國家是OK的對 改國家那個地方改國家這個剛剛大家都討論"},{"start":18628.894,"end":18653.878,"text":"第一行國家然後在第二段的部分那個是各級政府好 以上好 謝謝那這樣子的話我們林月琴的這個互代決議我們就這樣子修正通過好 再來我們討論第七條第七條絕大部分的委員都跟院辦相同那民眾黨比較不同是不是民眾黨要不要發言署兵委員"},{"start":18674.148,"end":18679.815,"text":"好 謝謝主席第七條的部分其實很像在第一條所"},{"start":18681.516,"end":18696.645,"text":"面對到的情況就是他談到說政府原版是說政府應該採取具體措施來保障這些的社會環境之永續等等然後消米平庸等等你說是有些這個政策目標等等的"},{"start":18697.586,"end":18720.543,"text":"本黨的最重要的部分呢也還是有這個落實世代正義這個部分還有促進這是在重點那另外還有我們多一個第三項的部分就是說促進平等反對歧視的政策與措施那這個部分就跟院版裡面只說到的促進性別平等我們很重要的是在於各種的"},{"start":18721.618,"end":18738.802,"text":"不是只有性別平等各種的不平等都呈現出來的所以我們這一部分是希望說把世代正義 落實世代正義也許就可以沿用在當初第一條的這個部分大家當今天早上有通過了它第二部分是在於說促進平等反歧視這部分把它拉進來這個部分好 謝謝好這個關於這個民眾黨的這個版本"},{"start":18748.519,"end":18762.071,"text":"我是這樣認為啦 因為其實我們如果你端看 因為你綁了28條之一嘛28條第一項的規定可是你如果單純看你的第28條其實當然是"},{"start":18765.454,"end":18780.692,"text":"OK的 可是問題是你用綁的 就是說你直接要求這個特定條文必須依據第28條來修法獲利法的時候就會出現幾個問題 第一個你這個基本法真的管太細變得很像作用法第二個就是說我們"},{"start":18781.953,"end":18807.99,"text":"我們 我的意思說我們自己都是立委我們真的如果覺得這個有那麼明確的問題需要修法或立法我們直接做就好何必還要立一條要求修法的法這是我的納悶啦所以我是建議說我們還是授權各級政府未來依據青年基本法那自行判斷調整法規的彈性即可啊這是我個人的看法那看其他委員有沒有什麼意見要不然我們就請那個布里頭來回答"},{"start":18809.485,"end":18813.256,"text":"好 那我們請教育部這邊來回應喔第七條"},{"start":18820.753,"end":18845.733,"text":"第七條因為這邊如果提到要再有涉及到一些要促進平等反對歧視這些政策措施的部分目前大概行政院人權處這邊它有反歧視法的一個草案這部分是不是應該要由行政院人權處這邊來進行評估第七條這個部分大概提到這些環境永續還有針對這個"},{"start":18849.116,"end":18874.771,"text":"未來的一個社會環境的保護跟淨零排碳這邊其實在這個相關的部分也有提到共同促進性別平等也消彌貧窮這個等等的一個社會願景所以如果涉及反歧視的部分這個是不是可以請行政院人權處再做進一步評估就是比較不適合在我們這個作用法裡面再去訂這個要去修法的部分"},{"start":18876.271,"end":18901.972,"text":"好 那我們再請吳思瑤然後再請劉淑冰第七條的部分其實我們民進黨團也跟行政部門討論過很多次到底要把哪些面向可以含括在現在第七條的三項裡頭其實有一個中整的統合是大家可以看到第七條我們都是正向的來陳述政府要對於哪些"},{"start":18902.712,"end":18921.79,"text":"重要的要項採取具體的措施所以我們都是用正向的一個說明而且也是現在大家最關切的第一項處理的是保障青年及未來社會的環境永續那第二項就是平等發展"},{"start":18922.671,"end":18950.667,"text":"然後促進性別平等消弭貧窮這樣子第三項是永續的議題所以我們把它分成三項民眾黨的版本的反歧視的部分因為如果你要把反歧視放一項你反性別平權就是說反對性別歧視反對很多的霸凌反對很多的剝削是不是都要把反的東西都放上來"},{"start":18951.807,"end":18979.42,"text":"可能就是因為我們過去有一些委員有一些就是這種陳述的意見但後來大家都收攏在正向表列然後該反的這些東西要太多了你會掛一漏萬那剛好反歧視法是現在或者是叫做這個平等法都正在研議當中所以是不是請民眾黨的委員在這個部分可以來支持行政院的版本"},{"start":18980.04,"end":19005.18,"text":"那第二個我也提醒一下因為剛剛之前在討論第六條的有提到國家啦 政府啦 各級政府的面向那我個人是建議說如果第七條的三項都是回到國家國家國家看大家是不是同意它是一個比較高位的包括各級政府跨部會所以如果三項可以改成國家國家國家就交與大家好"},{"start":19008.303,"end":19023.243,"text":"好 我們再請劉淑冰好謝謝主席喔這個第七條有三項那第一項這邊我想應該大家沒有問題因為我們在第一條都已經處理過就是再加上一個落實世代"},{"start":19024.664,"end":19045.615,"text":"但是就配合之前教育部長 政部長有說的把弱勢世代正義放到永續之前來去進行那在第三個部分是屬於平等反歧視這邊我們也確定行政院有自己的這個反歧視法有公告出來但是好像沒有送進到我們大院來"},{"start":19046.896,"end":19066.636,"text":"說那沒有進入到我們立法院來去審議那這一部分我是不是想說等一下等我們有做一個附帶我們請我們自己的辦公室去做去做一個附帶決議把這部分把它拉進來因為如果這樣講這曠日廢時一年多都可以這樣子拖延的部分然後那這邊的話因為這邊就是想要透過這次的修法把所謂的"},{"start":19067.796,"end":19086.602,"text":"透過28條的這個程序把它另一法定進行其實是配合原來就有院版的部分我們不想要說如果我們也做成附帶決議的部分那當然這部分就依照後來的在整體來進行針對28條的部分就用那個一起來試用說應該做一個調適的這一部分我想就用這個處理這樣子好嗎好喔 那就就是"},{"start":19093.64,"end":19116.484,"text":"你 你 你嘛 等一下我們再處理我請我們辦公室處理一下那 那個 斯堯提的這個政府改國家 大家沒意見等一下 可是第一個部分又是因為政府第一項是政府應採取具體措施變成國家應採取具體措施就跟剛才那個部分一樣國家採取具體措施還是政府那是如果推動這邊應該是無意採取措施的絕對是一個法人團體這部分我覺得組織我覺得這邊應該還是要保留"},{"start":19122.765,"end":19136.501,"text":"是用政府而不是用國家那第二項的話推動我覺得國家推動這是無疑的好 這個我們尊重劉教授的專業政府 政府那就是第一項是政府啦那第二項跟第三項都是國家"},{"start":19137.762,"end":19164.653,"text":"好 那這個我們這個等一下 我們剛才說世代正義是不是要用跟你不是要用附帶決議嗎沒有 是附帶決議是第三項第一項的部分世代正義的部分應該要放在我剛才有提出建議版就在尊重部長的一個當初在第一條上面修訂是在環境永續之前把它放到世代正義這部分因為講大家當初有一個在第一條上面已經有共識了看怎麼把它放進去"},{"start":19168.711,"end":19171.661,"text":"其他委員的看法呢要放嗎"},{"start":19175.339,"end":19204.101,"text":"我个人是我了解这个刘淑冰委员的想法她当然非常重视这个世代正义不过因为现在第一条一个大法上面就已经揭示世代正义我想第一条大法揭示的世代正义应该是贯穿我们全部的一个法条如果不是非常具体而是一个大法的一个概念来说的话我是否可以建议就是这个地方不用放世代正义因为大家都已经很清楚了这样好不好因为第一条已经有已经涵盖了这样一个精神了OK"},{"start":19205.353,"end":19225.408,"text":"好 那劉委員如果沒意見好 那我們等一下就我們等我們這部先保留第三項的部分好 那我們先把這個這個這個本條本條文先過關然後附帶決議擬一擬我們再來處理我們先走下去這樣好不好但是第一項是政府二三國家這樣不是很怪嗎"},{"start":19230.946,"end":19251.451,"text":"應當是一致吧那我不曉得蘇冰委員覺得第一項放國家有什麼樣的意義因為我認為國家是更高位的包括各級政府跨部會那法務部隨便 對啊因為反而第一項是很重要的還有汪參事有沒有提供一些意見給我們"},{"start":19259.474,"end":19274.265,"text":"報告召委跟委員是這樣我想簡單說一下因為那個國家跟政府的概念的區別那個國家應該是指那個法律上的一個整體概念他有包含瓜國家的主權國家制度跟各個機關"},{"start":19275.726,"end":19300.38,"text":"本質是政治共同體但是政府指的是國家行使行政權的機構是國家權力的一部分那通常我們如果需要強調國家整體權或者是主權的意志的時候我們用國家但是如果是具體的規範行政作為的時候我們通常會用政府會比較精確因為這個時候我們關注的是那個行政權的形式"},{"start":19300.64,"end":19322.755,"text":"那三項都放政府 這樣就好 可能會好 那可以 那可以 那可以好 沒問題那這樣有沒有意見 沒有意見那我們就按照院版通過囉 就沒改囉好 那等一下我們再來處理那個蘇冰的附帶決議好 那我們再來 還有第七條有月琴的附帶決議"},{"start":19325.373,"end":19351.38,"text":"育晴要不要聽她說明還是大家看一下有沒有問題她這個附帶決議是有關於這個環境永續喔還有兒少我幫忙說明一下喔這個條文其實它是比較清楚提到這個環境的保護跟永續所以是希望這個讓青年在政策上能夠真正的參與就是共同的參與跟認同那所以請這個環境部"},{"start":19352.66,"end":19381.53,"text":"是不是可以發揮這個權責機關的一個功能然後依照本法的一個精神把多元參與的理念就是繼續延伸下去那設計不同的一個參與的方式讓兒少跟青年都可以投入環境部門相關的一些法規跟政策的討論那如果之後呢要定期的追蹤或者是回溯他們的一些意見那讓條文不是只有寫在紙上而是能夠真正落實這是月晴的附帶決議我幫忙闡述一下好"},{"start":19382.25,"end":19397.807,"text":"那是不是要請那個 因為最後是要原請環境部於本法正式實施後三個月內 巴拉巴拉 所以是不是要請環境部表示一下意見 環境部這個高級環境技術師 政技術師人呢來 你們來說明一下 你看到這個齁"},{"start":19410.897,"end":19421.627,"text":"時間上三個月還是內文謝謝主席還有林苑雄委員三個月這個我回去再確認這個時間是不是能夠再長一點因為你這個"},{"start":19425.949,"end":19450.388,"text":"這會議我們好像前一陣子才召開過這個兒少相關的會議那如果說能夠的話就 六個月如果六個月 六個月可以好 OK喔 好好那就改成六個月好不好好那我們就這個附帶一句就修正通過OK 好那我們進入第七條喔 第八 不好意思 第八第八條我選一下"},{"start":19451.806,"end":19467.907,"text":"第八條是有關於青年的學習及受教權大家有沒有意見因為大部分也都跟原版大同小異雅玲跟秀寶跟舒冰還有麗華"},{"start":19470.45,"end":19489.726,"text":"好 那個第八條的部分其實我只有增加兩個字啦就是說因為我們在第二句話是落實保障青年享有之學習我只是加了公平兩個字因為還是想要去強調這個非三非四或是一些偏鄉的學生也是可以得到相對的資源所以是強調了公平這兩個字 謝謝好 那再來秀寶"},{"start":19491.307,"end":19507.39,"text":"謝謝主席在這條第八條但是在本席的版本是放在第六個條次那我的條文是政府應打造良好之學習環境提供青年多元學習管道積極保障青年學習前及受教育權"},{"start":19508.351,"end":19529.738,"text":"其實我這個條文的用意是說我們青年發展的重點包含青年良好的學習環境來保障他們的受教權並且促進青年的教育除了義務教育之外本席這邊是希望說各目的事業主管機關可以提供多元學習管道例如與台灣相關的人文地理以及風俗民情等讓青年可以有機會多元發展創造無限可能"},{"start":19530.738,"end":19559.867,"text":"提供青年多元學習管道這樣子的意義就是在於說我們主管機關應該是更積極更主動的來提供而不是只是說我們建構一個有利的環境拓展這樣的場域之外應該要更積極的有作為去開設這樣子給青年們有學習的管道我會希望說有這樣子比較主動的比較積極的這樣子的一個方向以上好那我們請蘇冰委員"},{"start":19561.69,"end":19586.826,"text":"好 謝謝主席第八條本檔的版本跟院版當中有差別在於說討論到說要注意到一個適性探索的一個內容那當然這邊我們差異性在考量文化族群地域的這個差異分配等等重視學生心理健康這個部分但是呢我們有提到有一個很重要的"},{"start":19587.566,"end":19606.352,"text":"要點在於說適性探索而不是像現在都是一個網上然後要適應世界這樣子還提升青年韌性在於說因為目前在高級中等學校的課程諮詢教師的這個設置要點當中它規定的選課性向還有未來發展需由"},{"start":19606.972,"end":19620.668,"text":"教 諮詢教師提供學生輔導來做整體性的這樣子一個生涯發展但是我們在看到全教總的這個最近的這個問卷調查都顯示只有49.4的教師認為這個制度是"},{"start":19622.029,"end":19632.342,"text":"這個制度有幫助但是一半以上是沒有任務沒有發掘到有幫助那是有待加強的那我們就會想到說這地方特別要去強調作為一個教育部的部分這種所謂的適性探索的這樣的意涵包括特別是剛才對應到的是那個"},{"start":19640.272,"end":19646.157,"text":"辦法設置要頂上面的一個落實必須要被呈現出來如果沒有辦法呈現出的話其實青年基本法當中的這樣子能夠說包括在108課堂所呈現出來的那個效應呢事實上這都大雜成空而且並沒有辦法去真的是達到一個在中等學校的階段就能夠去發展視訊它未來作為成年人的一個"},{"start":19663.349,"end":19676.594,"text":"為自己負責然後也成為國家的棟樑然後可是但是卻是樂在其中的這個適性發展這部分沒辦法去落實所以我們會強調這部分應該要希望說能夠支持說能夠把這部分把它放進去好謝謝我們請吳麗華委員"},{"start":19683.851,"end":19698.641,"text":"好 謝謝主席就是剛才我們從第六條就是有特別提到我們在做青年的遴選代表性的時候也希望去注意到像原住民族群的代表那所以"},{"start":19699.321,"end":19726.881,"text":"下來像第七條如果談到青年的一個參與能源消米貧窮環境保護那我的意思是說其實這裡頭就有很多跟原住民族非常密切相關的議題在未來的能源環境永續那原住民就是很不希望我們青年返鄉然後回到自己的土地當別人的工人所以像綠領人才的培育我們是希望說既然這是青年基本法"},{"start":19727.541,"end":19742.462,"text":"那希望能夠去注意到這個議題因此回到第八條的時候當提到我們要致力於建構多元學習環境擴展學習場域協助青年怎麼樣怎麼樣的時候其實原鄉地區它的一個"},{"start":19743.786,"end":19771.883,"text":"空間跟都會地區很不同他們可能連基礎的學習空間都很難找到那更何況是地處偏遠所以要怎麼落實這上頭講的那甚至是連師資也很難找到那怎麼樣有多元的一個學習內容所以這邊就是特別提到包括進入到都會區很多的原民青年在都會區其實他們要去找到他們的一個空間學習空間也都很困難"},{"start":19772.603,"end":19793.24,"text":"所以在這個地方就是要特別提醒就是當我們的法條文字去提到這些的時候那我們又特別在第六條很重視把族群代表放進來的時候那希望在這些條文的文字裡面都必須在後續附帶決議也好希望能夠去重視這一些的規劃謝謝好 那"},{"start":19798.703,"end":19819.369,"text":"剛剛雅玲委員是有提到說要加公平兩個字喔這個公平學習就在第對 落實保障青年大家看一下那個前面的那個螢幕想要公平的學習好 公平學習公平不用知的 公平學習吧好 對對對對"},{"start":19822.594,"end":19846.939,"text":"如果加這個的話 我個人認為是有涵蓋民眾黨的版本中間這些 就是說智力建構與多元學習環境考量文化族群其實就是一個公平學習的機會這是我覺得這個某程度因為我們文字 基本法文字精簡當然是一個最大的目標所以"},{"start":19850.561,"end":19867.961,"text":"劉淑彬委員謝謝主席因為在本身我們對照本版的條文跟現在的院版的時候我建議在擴展學習領域之後加上一個協助青年適性探索然後就後面接下去都沒有問題"},{"start":19871.704,"end":19895.692,"text":"就是家 協助青年 適性探索適性探索然後盾號適應世界發展盾號適應世界發展對因為他必須要真的要適性發展你要達成世界適應世界的狀況是讓適性探索 適應世界發展一樣你也兩百樣人這部分我覺得就可以達到效果我個人是認為OK啦大家覺得呢"},{"start":19897.413,"end":19921.221,"text":"沒見囉 好 那這個就修正通過 第八條謝謝大家 第九條第九條這一條是青年就業跟職癌發展相關那有民眾黨的提案好像還是都是牽涉到細節的規範是不是要做一下說明 還是就按照院版好 蘇冰委員"},{"start":19925.507,"end":19944.445,"text":"我還是先說明之後再看後續怎麼處理法這邊是針對青年的就業跟職涯發展當中有一些這種基本的原則性工作核心素養適應的職業訓練等等改善環境但是這邊民眾黨的版本當中特別是針對具體的"},{"start":19946.887,"end":19960.35,"text":"意義在於說因為我們目前青年的很多的他的工作的場域是在餐旅還有外送這些的產業當然他們希望說未來有更多的多元的發展但是在這邊我們認為在勞動檢查這邊剛剛所說的那些領域都是非常基本的可是在勞動檢查的相關就是勞動檢查法當中"},{"start":19975.333,"end":19980.758,"text":"他對於說各地各縣市他們都有勞動檢查這個機構的這個計劃當中他必須怎麼樣的去做一個勞動檢查的一個程序啦這些怎麼的計劃這個程序的這個部分才計劃都應該有真正的讓青年代表能夠進去參與如果沒有這樣子進去的話"},{"start":19997.173,"end":20019.159,"text":"他那個勞動檢查可能就流於形式而且可能是以一個資深然後有經驗的人去看事情就很快帶過但是當年輕人他沒有去參與到這個計畫的勞動檢查計畫的時候問題沒辦法凸顯而且年輕人可能很容易的去發生職災那一個職災就可能一個人就都受傷甚至有工傷事件會出現"},{"start":20020.319,"end":20041.236,"text":"因此特別會想到說這邊部分是不是可以去加強大家在勞動檢查計劃的就是勞動檢查法裡面的一些相關規定好 那這個部分我們希望說能夠我把這個我們本黨的版本內容洗出來但是也請 請大家能不能考慮到怎麼樣的把它放到裡面去然後或者是有什麼其他辦法的好 先請吳思耀委員"},{"start":20047.783,"end":20068.817,"text":"想要提醒一下这是一个基本法不是作用法你要针对这一条是在处理青年的劳动权益要提升劳动条件改善就业环境营造一个友善的职场我认为这个是大方向那刚刚刘淑冰委员所提的"},{"start":20070.069,"end":20095.519,"text":"第一項其實差不多我覺得有一些寫得比較細的其實是可以用行政院的版本但是民眾黨的第二項我真的就覺得有一點疑義可以請勞動部來說明一下因為在一個基本法裡頭針對勞動檢查權來做一個細緻的要求而且在勞動檢查要有青年代表參與"},{"start":20097.1,"end":20118.489,"text":"劳动检查如何要有青年代表参与这个劳动部要说明一下吧现在劳动检查那如果我认为这就是执行面的问题啊因为劳动检查对于各个职场是否是安全平等的职场环境他是要求所有的人都是平等的工作权"},{"start":20119.489,"end":20143.662,"text":"你要針對青年有一個青年的勞動檢查我不知道這個面向是什麼如何來執行所以是不是我是支持行政院的版本那希望勞動部來說明一下也許可以說服劉淑冰委員好喔 那我們請勞動部這個勞動力發展署主任秘書陳昌邦主秘人咧 喔好蛤 要 職安署職安署 王科長"},{"start":20155.124,"end":20179.03,"text":"還有各位先進大家好其實這個提案我們是有一些建議就是說各檢查機構他其實是依據我們勞動檢查方針去做檢查的那這個檢查他們必須是考慮他們自己轄區內的特性然後常發生的職災類型去做檢查所以這些青年朋友可能在這方面的"},{"start":20180.424,"end":20203.047,"text":"經驗可能比較不夠所以如果他們加進來這個檢查的話其實我們建議是不是很妥適我們是建議說其實如果這些青年朋友有意見的話其實他可以把他們的意見反映給各地的檢查機構然後讓他們去針對這個部分去做檢查以上是我們展署的說明 謝謝"},{"start":20205.546,"end":20226.818,"text":"好我的看法是這樣就是說那個因為這個真的是基本法所以我們用相對原則性或方向性的文字這個來訂定會比較有寬廣的空間你寫得太細你必須把一些改革未來可以改革的可能性把它踩死"},{"start":20228.879,"end":20240.945,"text":"可是 您的這些建議如果用附帶決議 發函給地方政府 因為執行者是地方政府看有沒有這樣的可能 或怎麼樣 大家研議看看我們先請 郭宇晴委員"},{"start":20243.234,"end":20269.592,"text":"好 到承秀抱委 抱歉抱歉這部分其實我是支持這個願板喔那只是在那個條文的部分就是最後那一句喔就是營造因為他既然講的是職場啦講的是職來我是在講營造工作之友善職場那個兼顧生活是不是可以稍微再簡略把它修掉或者是因為他畢竟講的還是工作的職場啦那什麼叫做生活"},{"start":20274.216,"end":20277.601,"text":"阿嬤 阿嬤 阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿嬤阿�"},{"start":20284.654,"end":20307.45,"text":"謝謝主席 在這個第九條 在本席的版本是第五條那我也尊重就是我們行政院這邊這個文字那這一條主要就是為了促進青年就業及創業政府應該強化專業人才培育並建構有利於青年的職業發展的環境但是人才培育主管機關是教育部提升勞動條件則是我們勞動部這邊"},{"start":20308.951,"end":20311.754,"text":"所以這邊還是要再強調礦部會的橫向聯繫非常重要剛才我們一直討論到就是說以青年署這邊我們如何去檢視其他目的事業組織機關辦理相關事務的成效所以希望說行政院這邊可以很妥善的來協調"},{"start":20328.732,"end":20344.83,"text":"相關的業務當有其他的目的世界主權第一官在執行的時候我們該如何能夠去監督到不是說監督就是這個成效上我們該如何來一起分工合作這個部分還是要提醒一下以上好那好劉淑冰委員"},{"start":20350.993,"end":20366.309,"text":"好 謝謝主席關於剛才有一些建議我們討論的時候就提供一個在第一項的部分是想說在"},{"start":20368.491,"end":20393.782,"text":"這種適性的職業發展和適性的職業訓練還有探索這邊探索這邊還可以放進來然後另外的部分就是在提升勞動條件這部分我覺得應該注意到勞動勞工的身心健康這部分加上這幾個字就好了那如果這可以部分在第一項的部分呈現出來那第二項這部分呢就我們可能就是不是先我們是就我們"},{"start":20394.782,"end":20414.381,"text":"馬上問我們黨團這邊是不是暫時就先我們就暫時保留等一下再回來的時候可能就有些回應的這些部分好不好因為各個部分已經我們可能看怎麼樣處理法是不是看有個附帶決或是怎麼樣請處理好不好現在我們就這個部分但是在第一項這邊是不是可以把提升這個勞"},{"start":20416.222,"end":20443.214,"text":"勞工身心健康的這個部分把它拉進來因為看起來勞動條件可能很多時候是物質上面的但是那個心理健康這部分也是很重要我想很多的委員都很重視到那種心理衛生心理健康的部分我是覺得第一項第一項"},{"start":20444.836,"end":20467.578,"text":"劉淑冰委員妳說是要加還是有委員說在其他的條次這樣的話就是在職涯發展致力促進青年就業及職涯發展這邊前面再加一個職場探索好不好就是這部分提供職涯探索這部分"},{"start":20469.096,"end":20485.357,"text":"就是包括因為前面的請問職場探索是什麼我看一下 抱歉什麼是職場探索是說每一個工作讓他先去探索一下"},{"start":20486.567,"end":20510.311,"text":"然後他才決定要不要來上班那個書兵委員非常在乎因為在學校裡面我們就有先有探索再訓練然後這都是完全是在一個職涯發展裡面的必要的一個階段培養工作核心能力所以我個人認為說這個院版裡面致力促進青年就業及職涯發展"},{"start":20510.911,"end":20528.226,"text":"我想這一塊裡面應該在這質押發展裡面就應該涵蓋在這個探索的層面不過還是肯定蘇冰委員對於學校裡面每一個步驟都有面面俱到但是我想院版裡面應該有稍微應該都已經在這個訓練裡面在一致化裡面精神上是應該是涵蓋的好不好這應該涵蓋的"},{"start":20531.468,"end":20544.162,"text":"好 那謝謝 因為知恩委員他本身也在學校教授過他也知道說我們這個程序的確是這樣做的好 謝謝知恩委員的這個補充那到最後就結束好了就這個理解 謝謝但是第二部分就我們就先保留一下再看我們內部黨團怎麼處理好嗎很快就可能會回應了"},{"start":20547.606,"end":20574.545,"text":"第二部分我是覺得很細你是不是要用附帶決議來處理因為你今天來調文因為我們這是基本法我們說真的這個第二好不好但是先暫時就這部分就暫時先把它處理那我們就是按照願板通過好再等我們再來理你的附帶決議這樣好不好好 謝謝好那我們第九條我們就按照願板通過素冰委員就可以決定了不然以後你要當你們帶你們黨團黨變來一起開會"},{"start":20577.475,"end":20595.258,"text":"第10條 第10條第10條 這一條是有關於青年創業多數的委員提案精神是很一致喔就是說為政府施政指出一些方向性那民眾黨的還是會比較複雜一點是不是"},{"start":20599.835,"end":20625.415,"text":"沒有意見喔 感謝那其他委員有沒有要說明的 沒有喔那第10條我們就按照院版通過喔 好 謝謝第11條這條是有關於青年在地支持系統就是院版的條文就是要鼓勵青年的地方參與返鄉留鄉我們非常 其實我本席真的非常贊同這樣的一個施政規劃喔好 那大家有沒有要說明的"},{"start":20626.53,"end":20651.612,"text":"好 司堯委員行政院的版本已經含括了多數其實多數版本都跟行政院的版本幾乎一致啦所以我覺得大家支持行政院的版本因為它都把各方面的地方創生啦社會創新啦返鄉留鄉好 這些部分關鍵字都有出來那大家是不是可以支持院版好 秀白委員"},{"start":20654.638,"end":20680.367,"text":"不要急謝謝主席那在這個院版的第11條呢在我的條文是在18條我的原條文是政府應設立區域性青年支持機構促進青年交流與合作建立青年與在地支持系統協助青年生涯發展及公共參與提供青年必要之援助與服務那在這個部分呢我尊重我們行政院的這個版本"},{"start":20681.007,"end":20696.373,"text":"但是這一條我還是要再講一下因為我覺得這個非常的重要尤其針對非都市鄉鎮像我的選區青年如果沒有返鄉發展會造成城鄉差距會越來越大像我的選區鹿港有很豐富的歷史古蹟也有很多很獨特的民俗風情"},{"start":20697.173,"end":20719.854,"text":"非常適合結合地方創生來吸引青年回鄉發展繼續將歷史傳承所以本席希望說後續青年署跟文化部觀光署這邊要一起來研議相關鼓勵青年參與地方創生的方案越多這樣子的方案我們來鼓勵我們的年輕人願意返鄉來發展以上好 那麼請吳麗華委員再來郭育琴委員"},{"start":20722.314,"end":20732.768,"text":"謝謝主席這一條其實對我們原青來講也是非常的重要那我這邊就是特別希望因為我們是講在地支持系統"},{"start":20734.551,"end":20760.164,"text":"獎勵青年返鄉提供協助輔導及服務但是呢 我覺得真的有需要一個專法或者是適度的做一些沙盒計畫做一些法規的鬆綁要不然地方創生返鄉喊了很多年我覺得還是在法令法規的部分所以希望這一條能夠救這些文字那未來也有一些相關的法令鬆綁 謝謝"},{"start":20764.195,"end":20782.797,"text":"好 那再來郭玉琴委員好 這一條其實我也非常認同這個願板那我的版本是放在17條然後剛剛這個秀寶的委員是放在這個18條那我非常認同願板這個部分其實也呼應了我們這個政府在近年他們所推行的這個地方創生的一個政策"},{"start":20783.317,"end":20802.959,"text":"那像現在這個目前我們政府在地方創生3.0打造永續共好地方創生的一個計畫相信都可以促進這些青年返鄉參與之後能夠強化這個地方的創生動能讓青年跟地方的發展都能夠共好啦所以這個部分其實我非常認同願板放在這裡是OK的好 以上"},{"start":20803.8,"end":20812.855,"text":"好 謝謝那這個大部分都支持院版那我們是不是就讓院版通過好不好那范芸有兩個附帶決議讓范芸說明一下 來"},{"start":20815.362,"end":20839.521,"text":"妳的麥克風不好意思 附帶決議我有兩個第一個是關於閒轉生因為我跟青年團體討論他們有一些很擔心說閒轉生目前是從國中到大學以上目前是由學校教師端"},{"start":20840.462,"end":20865.475,"text":"來主動填報個案需求主管機關才提供資源可是實務上很多老師根本就不知道有這套機制所以也沒有報導致學生的個案被漏接這些青年學生從回國後的事情譬如說家長在國外留學或者工作回來這種希望教育部能夠全面檢討提出更主動和有效的措施比較是一個"},{"start":20866.756,"end":20885.133,"text":"因為我們前面不是就用國民沒有用人這邊就是可以幫他們補上這個另外一個因為這邊我們講到地方創生關於地方創生我也聽到不少意見反映就是目前大學生從學校課程發展出來的地方創生行動"},{"start":20886.354,"end":20901.387,"text":"那比較缺乏後續的支持系統其實有點可惜那一般地方青年的地方創生也其實缺乏足夠的相關資源資訊流通或媒合那也沒有一個有效的政府意見反應跟協助的機制"},{"start":20902.408,"end":20924.327,"text":"另外他的獎補助的計畫上其實應該要在經濟價值外還要強化文化的傳承社會參與跟環境永續讓青年賠利跟溝通在這一塊能夠有比較好的發展因為事實上這個跟青年蠻相關的雖然這個部分我們知道是國發會的主要的部分"},{"start":20924.787,"end":20954.1,"text":"所以這邊是不是針對地方創生的青年支持我們是希望有個附帶決議能夠有一個比較全面的規劃因為我覺得這個對青年的在地社會參與然後經濟都有幫助教育部我們有溝通過教育部好像覺得應該要把國發會拉進來我們覺得OK非常好因為這兩個事情第一個是跟教育部比較有關的第二個就是教育部跟國發會能夠一起來合作把它做得更好以上"},{"start":20955.447,"end":20977.14,"text":"那這兩個教育部文字上有沒有意見那三個月都變六個月好不好好那就這兩個附帶決定就修正通過第二個加原請教育部會同國發會是嗎"},{"start":20983.41,"end":21010.515,"text":"第一個好好對高中以下可以改成高中以下可以好第二個是教育部會同國發會是不是 國中至高中喔 沒台號就對了然後第二個是怎麼改OK那"},{"start":21012.95,"end":21028.065,"text":"好 我們再確認一下第一個就是最後一段不 第一段有鑒於國中至高中之閒轉生大學改高中然後最後一段原請就要步於六個月三個月改六個月好 那我們就修正通過"},{"start":21030.916,"end":21050.213,"text":"然後第二個 第二個附帶決議齁就是最後一段 原請教育部會同國發會於六個月內好 那就這樣修正通過齁OK好 那我們進入第十二條這一條是青年居住政策"},{"start":21051.397,"end":21068.514,"text":"育兒政策相關喔 多數委員都方向一致那民眾黨的提案好像有牽涉到付稅的優惠喔等一下我們請財政部說明好 那我們先請吳思瑤然後秀寶委員 劉書斌委員 王振旭委員好 OK 郭盂晴委員 不好意思"},{"start":21071.851,"end":21098.737,"text":"這一條我有修正動議大家聽看看 參考看看因為行政院的版本是2 in 1把兩個事情寫在同一個條文第一項講的是駐居的權利第二項講的是他的育兒婚育的鼓勵我認為駐居的權利跟育兒這些青年家庭支持的部分都很重要所以我自己的修正動議是把它拆成兩個條文"},{"start":21100.475,"end":21117.141,"text":"第12條就是專門在處理青年居住政策提升青年之居住品質保障青年居住於適宜之住宅且享有尊嚴之居住環境我的這個條文是參照住宅法"},{"start":21117.961,"end":21140.518,"text":"住宅法來寫但是強化青年的支持所以我建議是不是青年的居住權居住正義很重要是不是可以專一個條文來處理然後第二項的部分呢再另起一條可以是在它的下一條那我的條文就大致跟這個院版差不多就是國家應定定"},{"start":21141.639,"end":21165.225,"text":"青年的婚育家庭政策積極提供協助的措施第二項部分我覺得如果大家同意拆兩條我是可以用行政院的條文因為意思就是文字的差別而已重要的核心都在所以是懇請大家因為青年的居住的正義是大家非常重視的婚育的支持也是非常重要的我們把它分成兩條彰顯它不同的目的"},{"start":21168.266,"end":21182.111,"text":"是不是也請行政院可以支持不好意思這之前在溝通的時候沒有提出來是今天討論的時候用修正東西的方式更周延一點請大家參考謝謝好那我們接下來請請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":21186.417,"end":21203.633,"text":"好 謝謝主席在第12條的部分的確就是院版裡面把居住政策跟家庭的政策混在一起本黨這邊也是特別重視到這邊的居住跟婚育其實是兩件不同的事情"},{"start":21204.053,"end":21217.864,"text":"尤其是前面是不管他是沒有婚姻他最重要是他自己能夠居住到的是有個安全的一個合宜的環境的話呢他才會有可能考慮到他的未來的婚姻的可能性因此本席也是決定應該要把它分成兩段兩條來再去處理那在"},{"start":21220.746,"end":21248.619,"text":"居住正義的這一部分我們就會延請說像政府應該訂定居住政策來保障青年的居住的權益以健全資訊 付稅優惠及資金補貼或其他的措施來落實居住正義是採取用這個方式的部分第二 家庭教育家庭政策或是婚育政策部分就沿用的是目前院版的內容把它做一個整合都是適宜的 謝謝"},{"start":21251.138,"end":21272.607,"text":"好 我們再來請 郭瑜請委員再來張雅琳 再來王振旭雅琳沒有 不好意思是秀寶對好 那這一條我是放在我的版本是放在第六條就是政府應該要訂立青年居住政策積極保障青年居住權利跟居住的品質"},{"start":21274.067,"end":21297.121,"text":"我想這個世界人權宣言跟兩共約其實都有明確的規範就是規範保障居住權跟規定政府應該要建立家庭政策跟支持的一個系統都是應該要受到國家保護現在其實還是有不少的青年朋友他們的居住的環境不管是狹小或者是環境不佳甚至在品質上其實也是令人擔憂的一些租屋的空間"},{"start":21298.001,"end":21324.929,"text":"那所以這個部分我想是政府訂立青年居住政策主要也是要來保障這個青年朋友他們享有比較安全和平同時還有這個尊嚴的居住權那當然這個部分我們的院版是有已經有這樣子的條文出來但剛剛其實聽到這個資料委員他有講說應該把它拆成兩個部分這個部分其實我也蠻認同的以上好再來是秀巴委員"},{"start":21326.91,"end":21348.948,"text":"謝謝主席 在這條 院版第12條 我是放在第7條我的條文跟疫情委員比較相似政府應訂定青年居住政策 積極保障青年居住權益 維護青年居住正義那因為我這個訂的只是針對青年居住的政策院版的包含比較廣 還有友善育兒環境及生育教養支持系統所以我支持院版這個部分"},{"start":21349.989,"end":21374.704,"text":"但是我還是要講一下我連剛才有通過的第十條我要講一下第十條的部分我們是支持創業環境提供創業資源這個部分我希望說在我們這個青年基本法通過之後像我們青年的創業資源這個部分除了青年創業貸款之外我們應該聽取青年的意見到底在青年創業這個部分我們應該有什麼新的規劃提供他們一個比較多樣化的資源的來源"},{"start":21380.047,"end":21408.257,"text":"這條第12條我也希望說我們在親戚法通過之後青年他們對於居住家庭育兒這相關的需求一定要是他們有來參與意見的表達因為他們自己自身比較知道說自己所要的跟有時候我們行政部門所訂的相關的規範也許是有落差的所以要提醒就是說我們應該還是要廣納青年意見才能夠真正的協助到我們相關青年的需求以上提醒"},{"start":21409.585,"end":21429.375,"text":"好 我們接下來許王振旭委員好 謝謝主席很抱歉我今天討論前面一條的時候因為在參加未完委員會所以沒有辦法來參與早上的討論那針對第12條我們是認為說在這個第12條裡面針對於居住家庭政策"},{"start":21429.955,"end":21452.595,"text":"居住權益相關帶來的這個青年有益的育兒繁幸等等這個其實都分散在各個不同的部會裡面所以想要強化這個跨部會整合加強它的可進性因為我們知道很多資源它存在可是如果它的可進性不夠理想的話事實上對於我們這些青年的照顧衝擊的同時也會無法能夠"},{"start":21453.936,"end":21476.623,"text":"讓這些年輕人及時的取得相關的資源所以我們在條文裡面希望能夠除了改善青年友善育兒環境的同時也把相關資源的可進性也能夠納進來所以在立法說明裡面我們針對這部分也加強了說明另外一個很重要的部分就是青年懷孕期間或者是育有子女者"},{"start":21477.443,"end":21507.144,"text":"我們了解青年剛好就是受孕而且是在少子化的過程裡面對台灣非常重要的一個過程在這個運程裡面事實上它就需要開始得到大家的關注跟大家相關這個不管是各方面的獎勵補貼相關的措施都應該在這個時候就要納入考量當然珠環機關會認為說會不會因為航班的範圍太廣影響到資源的分配其實我們也了解運期跟早期的育兒的資源"},{"start":21507.624,"end":21535.092,"text":"是預防性的投資預防性的投資重點就是可以減少後續醫療跟社會成本來提升少子化對策的成效所以我們很希望能夠把懷孕期間也能夠納為我們在這個第12條裡面的條文的一部分在第二項裡面針對這個青年懷孕期間或育有子女者這樣的條文可以納入相關的內容那就麻煩大家共同來支持謝謝"},{"start":21537.625,"end":21558.59,"text":"好 再來請范芸 范芸委員這一條我支持剛剛那個吳思瑤委員的修正因為我也是希望說就居住來講就非常的重要了應該不要直接就扣在友善育兒會誤解以為只有處理友善育兒的青年的所以這兩個應該可以分開來就是就兩個部分"},{"start":21559.33,"end":21573.664,"text":"另外就是因為現在我們可以看到內政部他給的租金的補貼並沒有針對學生可是其實有這樣子因為台北市好像才3600 是不是"},{"start":21578.273,"end":21602.643,"text":"沒關係 因為其實還是挺不夠的因為我們知道現在私立大學有學費補助可是如果是在台北市的話其實生活費加起來是蠻高的所以我有一個附帶決議希望教育部跟內政部能夠再去檢討如何針對在學的青年主要是單身的還有出離校出就業的青年的補貼能夠有個等級"},{"start":21605.024,"end":21616.696,"text":"因為現在是一刀切40歲以下那事實上有經濟能力跟剛畢業的跟學生的負擔能力是不一樣的 那個部分那條問的部分我們剛剛講了就支持那個私藥委員的修正動力"},{"start":21618.442,"end":21642.383,"text":"好 那針對就是思瑤委員提議的就是拆成兩條把這個居住政策跟育兒政策分成兩塊那王振旭委員有提到這個他的另外一條就是所謂的這個育兒政策部分還加上這個懷孕期間就是要加上這個字眼 然後"},{"start":21644.205,"end":21648.087,"text":"積極採取提供獎勵等措施那好 針對這幾項是不是 請喔喔好 不好意思 吳麗華"},{"start":21654.538,"end":21680.791,"text":"其實我也是跟思瑤委員還有其他委員的意見一樣因為關於訂定這個政策居住權跟友善育兒我跟大家意見一樣都是很重要的兩個主題希望分開那我要特別提醒的就是關於這個光是一個居住權它簡單的名詞但是在不同的區域其實就有不同的一個問題那我特別講像我們原住民青年因為我們的原保地"},{"start":21681.491,"end":21696.187,"text":"沒有辦法當作擔保品沒有任何的金融器官願意承擔所以特別的困難所以我覺得這個原青在都會地區的這個居住權就要特別的去我希望能夠有一個特別的規劃"},{"start":21697.068,"end":21722.183,"text":"那原鄉的也是很困難因為我們光是建地的取得就不容易所以在很多的法規其實青年要能夠蓋房子是對他們來講是非常不公平的一件事情所以這個部分我只是說我們也會逐條提一些附帶決議那我們會希望各個目的世界主管機關就這一些特殊族群的部分能夠去有一個規劃出來謝謝"},{"start":21725.902,"end":21755.044,"text":"好 那是不是請清發署做個回答就剛剛所提的 拆成兩條大家如果同意的話那文字怎麼樣建構然後再來就是針對那個吳麗華委員的問題還有王正旭委員的問題也做個說明好那這個部分我想那個拆成兩條是這樣更清楚那不過就是說因為涉及到那個育兒跟住宅是不是可以請那個內政部內政部來表示一下意見"},{"start":21757.549,"end":21760.011,"text":"我們是支持啦 好 等一下可是那個剛剛王振旭委員的那個咧 要加入不然我們先討論那我們就 如果參賽者好 我們先討論12條好12條 那變了再來就變成是3"},{"start":21782.011,"end":21787.554,"text":"好 那我們就是 十二條就是青年居住的問題啦那我們的條文內容"},{"start":21794.966,"end":21823.066,"text":"就是政府應訂定青年居住政策提升青年之居住品質保障青年居住於適宜之住宅且享有尊嚴之居住環境這個修正動議是這樣的內文那其他有沒有其他的建議對 這個是不是也可以那個內政部有沒有建議好 內政部內政部"},{"start":21825.351,"end":21853.064,"text":"好 國土署主席 各位委員 各位縣議員大家好有關這個部分條文我們是尊重委員這邊的討論其實我們現在目前積極在推動社會住宅包住代管 還有租金補貼剛剛委員有提到說在懷孕期間的部分其實我們現行的政策對於懷孕的部分其實我們就有納入當然我們也會再持續的精進或相關的一些措施提供給年輕人更好的居住環境 以上"},{"start":21855.336,"end":21868.046,"text":"好 所以內政部是相當同意也相當支持喔好 那我們的文字我們來看12條文字好不好等一下 等一下好 大家先對12條文字來提出意見好不好我們Focus一下"},{"start":21869.799,"end":21891.861,"text":"這樣有意見嗎有有劉淑彬委員妳說這一部分如果說是這樣太抽象我覺得再加上在這個提升青年居住品質之前應該要把資訊健全資訊是非常重要的如果這個資訊不透明的話就會讓很多人像仲介這就會有上下其手這部分我覺得再加上這一句"},{"start":21893.254,"end":21921.476,"text":"可能會要怎麼加你的建議就是政府應訂定青年居住政策健全租屋健全房子健全租屋資訊健全房子資訊我可以了啦可以因為我們這是基本法我想我們我加好啊不蛤我的版就是我剛剛有講我的版本是第六條啦就是在那個"},{"start":21923.177,"end":21950.604,"text":"居住品質之前提升居住品質之前有一個積極保障青年居住權利那我覺得這個部分可能就會比較含瓜就是積極保障青年居住權利那這個因為我們是上位法嘛那我覺得這個部分可能會不會比較好可是跟後面最後一句是不是有一些字以上的重複就把它保障青年居住權利"},{"start":21952.863,"end":21957.359,"text":"與居住權利跟我們最後有保障青年居住於適宜的"},{"start":21958.484,"end":21978.914,"text":"住宅這樣好了因為後面有保障嘛對不對大家都應該很支持居住正義吧居住正義應該是說落實青年居住正義居住正義請要放進去落實青年居住正義再第二句話就好了聽聽聽青年居住政策落實青年居住正義這樣就OK啦提升青年之"},{"start":21983.556,"end":21989.464,"text":"居住品質 保障青年居住於適宜之住宅且享有尊嚴的居住環境這樣好不好"},{"start":21997.216,"end":22025.513,"text":"因為有居住正義都已經居住正義了我覺得後面那個尊嚴這個其實是蠻抽象我覺得這個部分可以不要了啦可不可以簡單一點政府應訂定青年居住政策提升青年之居住品質落實青年居住正義這樣就可以了吧比較精簡一點最後那一整句就是其實那個尊嚴那一句可以不要啦對啊好好好那這樣就把我們說的我們再改一下"},{"start":22028.257,"end":22052.573,"text":"就這樣嗎 來 政府應訂定青年居住政策提升青年之居住品質 落實青年居住正義好 OK好 那我們第12條就這樣修正通過那我們第13條對 第2 就是13條對"},{"start":22058.844,"end":22084.682,"text":"對 變第13條 政府應訂定居住與家庭政策保障青年沒有 還沒有改應該說政府應訂定青年婚育及家庭政策積極提供協助措施保障友善育兒環境強化青年家庭照顧及生育教養支持系統"},{"start":22094.898,"end":22101.83,"text":"那後面 後面這些後面這些青年育幼子女者"},{"start":22103.43,"end":22129.643,"text":"政府應積極採取積極獎勵補貼貸款協助這些妳那個就已經是生育教養的支持系統了那就是支持系統妳後面那個部分可以不要如果是妳要做這樣一個處理的話因為那邊就已經屬於支持系統了包括妳的一些獎勵補助等等的貸款這些如果是大法的話我認為妳後面如果再加上這邊就是有點太細了那後面就去掉到生育教養支持系統就好了"},{"start":22134.226,"end":22154.287,"text":"好 大家再看一次齁 政府應訂定青年婚育及家庭政策 積極提供協助措施保障青年友善育兒環境強化家庭照顧及生育教養支持系統這樣OK齁好 那我們第13條就這樣增訂通過啊 啊 徵序"},{"start":22158.492,"end":22180.524,"text":"謝謝喔 我想這樣的修正看起來是非常完整可是在立法說明裡面能不能把這個婚育的部分再強加說明有關懷孕期間就要開始提供協助補助這樣可以保證在這個懷孕過程裡面事實上是得到重視的好 那是不是授權教育部在立法說明"},{"start":22182.916,"end":22201.116,"text":"加上王振旭委員的這個條文內容就是青年懷孕期間或育有子女者政府怎麼樣提供獎勵措施好放在立法說明好不好OK好那這個好那這一條有附帶決議"},{"start":22205.131,"end":22217.558,"text":"12條有附帶決議12條可是你這個你這個是租房屋的是12條生育的是13條12條 那范雲要不要說明OK 好三個月"},{"start":22225.219,"end":22254.759,"text":"OK喔 好 那就范雲的這個附帶決議就照案通過主席 我想大家討論一下我們第13條喔 回去一下他寫我們政府應訂定青年婚育及家庭政策這樣子會不會造成就是說結婚育子那如果我們純粹講政府應訂定青年育子及家庭政策不是限定說是婚育的"},{"start":22256.22,"end":22283.456,"text":"有的他因為有的是單親或者是但他是青年但他也育有孩子生育及家庭政策友善青年友善青年生育及家庭政策就不一定要婚對啦好好好"},{"start":22284.468,"end":22286.169,"text":"對…是生小孩跟養小孩的問題"},{"start":22309.298,"end":22323.236,"text":"可是後面已經保障青年友善育兒環境了不要那麼多友善啦 德育已經很友善啦後面就已經有友善育兒環境了好不好 他前面就是一個原則我要定什麼政策後面說怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣形容詞在後面"},{"start":22325.274,"end":22350.314,"text":"那就這樣喔 那13條我們就這樣增訂啦 增訂通過就是政府應訂定青年生育及家庭政策積極提供協助措施保障青年友善育兒環境強化教育照顧及生育教養支持系統那12條的附帶決議就這樣 照案通過"},{"start":22353.777,"end":22380.465,"text":"吳麗華 妳有附帶決議第12條沒有 她那個是立法說明吧喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔"},{"start":22380.933,"end":22392.703,"text":"好 OK 好 那這樣子好 那我們進入我們還是依照院版這樣講 可是我們實際上是14啦 可是我們為了避免我們自己混亂"},{"start":22394.707,"end":22411.543,"text":"好好好 那現在我們就是討論願板是三條 好柯之恩委員 呃 這個等一下 從柯之恩委員 劉淑冰委員張雅玲委員 郭育晴委員吳思瑤委員 范雲委員 王振旭委員王振旭 抱歉"},{"start":22413.7,"end":22431.858,"text":"好 那個我想這個院版的這個部分是要明定政府要促進這個青年這個身心健康提升生活品質的政策但是我關注到你這邊有寫一個預防物質濫用我覺得這個部分身心健康是很重要但是我可能要請一下這個"},{"start":22433.059,"end":22455.768,"text":"教育部要討論一下什麼叫做預防物質濫用這個有一點語意不清因為為什麼因為你這個部分裡面身心健康應該是條文上面應該避免跟這個所謂你這個感覺起來好像是有點毒品濫用這應該是當初教育部的版本裡面有這個毒品濫用你現在把身心健康跟這個物質濫用把它混為一談這個東西應該是沒有直接的關聯"},{"start":22459.79,"end":22482.211,"text":"可是你把它放在一起可能會讓人家誤解這兩者是有直接相關的所以不應該是放在同一條而且更進一步來說我覺得青年基本法是作為青年事務的根本大法你不需要強力的去論證不應該特別針對這些所謂的物質、毒品、藥物、濫用東西來制定這個條文大家都知道很重要"},{"start":22482.771,"end":22498.961,"text":"所以說我個人認為就在法條上面預防物質濫用這個詞應該要來做一個刪除這樣比較明確乾淨而且不會讓人家覺得他們有個關聯性這樣有點太標籤化了其實這個東西在後面其實也都會有這樣的感覺好不好"},{"start":22500.25,"end":22519.078,"text":"好 接下來請劉淑冰委員好 謝謝主席在現在院版的第13條部分同樣也是針對預防物質濫用 這邊本黨有意見是因為這邊的物質濫用有這個藥物 毒品等等 是有"},{"start":22519.938,"end":22542.675,"text":"污名化的意涵尤其是跟整個基本法的特質是在用鼓勵然後協助的方式在進行其他的部分這邊本來就有促進身心健康的一般性的協法就算是你沒有這樣的規範的時候都是可以作為物質濫用的預防因此我們不要有特別這樣的暗示作用就是在拉近說政府跟"},{"start":22544.716,"end":22559.473,"text":"青年之間的關係的部分我覺得這邊大可不必用這樣的方式去處理那當然也是強調出來這個青年他的一個主體性意涵避免說有教育部有這種又就是在說教的這種意義存在 謝謝好 再來雅玲委員"},{"start":22561.657,"end":22576.73,"text":"其實我想大家的意見都蠻接近的就是說因為整體的法案在這個基本法裡面有好幾條都應該是用正面表述的方式採取積極性的措施來協助青年得到相當的資源所以我認為這邊就是不要就是把預防物資濫用這個"},{"start":22577.631,"end":22603.813,"text":"字眼是屬於一個負面表述而且也有一點點汙名化的疑慮就建議直接移除那另外一個在我的版本裡面我還增加了就是我們原本是增加心理智商增加心理健康之促進心理智商之機會我是改成增加心理智商及休閒之機會因為我想這個要促進青年的身心健康休閒是一個蠻重要的部分好 謝謝"},{"start":22605.56,"end":22607.237,"text":"好 接下來請郭瑜晴委員"},{"start":22611.263,"end":22636.388,"text":"這個部分我跟大家的意見差不多就是預防物質濫用的部分是比較讓人容易產生這些負面的一些影響跟想法我想這應該用正面表述來代替比較好當然我們也認為所謂的物質濫用其實它是屬於比較像刑事 治安或者是一些公共衛生的一個領域我的版本是放在第七條很簡單就是政府應訂定促進"},{"start":22637.188,"end":22650.697,"text":"青年身心健康提高生活品質之福利政策就是這樣子很簡單的一個表述我想因為是上位法的關係基本法的關係我想這個應該有涵蓋很多的面向好 以上好 接下來請司堯委員"},{"start":22653.32,"end":22676.602,"text":"我同樣的支持把那個預防物質濫用刪除然後呢因為我認為增加心理健康促進已經非常涵蓋了整個內涵所以如果寫到比較細的諮商啊什麼的因為對心理健康促進還有很多像我們爭取的健康調適價啦什麼的所以"},{"start":22678.146,"end":22693.942,"text":"心理諮商之機會當然剛剛有其他委員說休閒啊什麼的我是覺得就是心理健康之促進就可以完整但是沒關係我不堅持就聽大家的意見然後物質濫用那個是一定要拿掉的好 接下來請范育芸委員"},{"start":22699.738,"end":22715.266,"text":"好 等一下秀寶我也跟前面幾位一樣先王振旭再秀寶就是心理健康的身心健康部分不要把物質濫用放在這兒反而有一個對青年的汙名化的一個問題所以把它拿掉好 以上"},{"start":22717.045,"end":22745.179,"text":"那再來鄭旭委員這是唯一的男委員目前少數民族 謝謝針對這一條就是原始三條我因為是一個醫療專科所以我提供一些數據給大家參考為什麼我們會把自殺防治當作一個重要的入法的需求因為這是一個上位法根據衛福部提供的資料最近這十年"},{"start":22747.381,"end":22754.672,"text":"18歲到35歲的青年自殺死亡率不是自殺的機會比例而已每10萬人從104年的11.7攀升到113年的16.4"},{"start":22760.795,"end":22775.929,"text":"這個攀升的比例非常的快而且非常的驚人第二個數據就是在衛福部113年國人死因統計裡面不管是從15到24歲或者是從25到44歲這個年齡層的死亡原因裡面自殺都是排名第二"},{"start":22777.09,"end":22797.259,"text":"這個代表說這些年輕人如果因為有情緒各方面的問題導致他會尋求自殺甚至自殺身亡是一個非常重要的議題所以我們在促進身心健康的同時必須也要在這個基本法裡面把自殺方式納進來很期待大家共同來努力"},{"start":22797.859,"end":22816.019,"text":"另外剛剛大家有提到除了預防物質耐用在這個地方的確不太適合那作為心理諮商跟諮詢其實這是有層次上的差異心理諮商基本上是屬於精神科醫師或者是心理醫師他們去執行了可是年輕人他不一定"},{"start":22817.245,"end":22845.644,"text":"會去到這個地方所以我們如果有用諮商加上諮詢的機會的話理論上就可以更廣泛的讓這些青年人當他有這個困擾的時候可以得到大家的幫忙那這個其實也有數據剛剛提到這個自殺死亡裡面如果有一個人自殺死亡其實就代表另外有20個案件他曾經試著自殺過只是沒有死亡或者是沒有被注意到所以這個部分就需要有更多的諮詢的機會"},{"start":22847.425,"end":22874.616,"text":"跟智商的機會我們也知道衛福部有推出年輕族群心理健康支持方案可是畢竟這是一個方案方案通常是短期所以如果我們要希望讓這個基本法能夠永續的去關懷年輕人的話用這個方案做短期的支持事實上是不夠的所以我們才會把諮詢也納進來為什麼我們還要加上培育相關人才因為"},{"start":22876.477,"end":22890.635,"text":"在2023年推出了這個支持方案那個時候是有提供了一些讓年輕人可以在學校裡面得到支持的部分那這個很快在很短的時間裡面"},{"start":22892.638,"end":22920.872,"text":"將近有3000名的名額一下子就用完了表示說我們的服務的面向還要在擴大的同時我們需要培育更多的人才來協助不管是針對身心的健康或自殺防治能夠有更好的更完整的三維法來做保障所以我們才會在第13條裡面增加了有關於自殺防治還有諮詢還有如何能夠培育相關人才希望能夠入法"},{"start":22921.593,"end":22929.714,"text":"讓這個商務法更完整以上請大家共同來支持 謝謝好 那我們秀巴委員先然後再來柯之恩委員"},{"start":22931.491,"end":22960.48,"text":"謝謝主席我也要呼應前面發言的委員他們表達的意見對於預防物質濫用戰會引起誤解的字眼其實不太適合放在這裡關於第13條我自己的版本是放在第8條我的條文內容跟疫情委員很相似政府應定定促進青年身心健康及提高青年生活品質之福利政策其實剛才曾區委員所提到的衛福部推動的青壯世代心理健康支持方案從上路以來其實很受好評"},{"start":22961.38,"end":22982.75,"text":"那對青年的身心健康產生很大的注意所以希望說 將來青年署針對各目的事業主管機關他們辦理的青年政策如果有受到青年肯定而且是像這樣子真的是符合年輕人的需求也是真的是非常需要的也應該要協助爭取繼續辦理是持續的 不是短期的那種就是持續的一個政策來協助我們的青年 以上好 再來柯芝恩委員"},{"start":22986.334,"end":23011.392,"text":"好 我觉得刚刚我们特别提到了预防物质难用大家都认为是要把它删掉不过我还是要特别提到咨询跟咨商是不一样的增加心理健康促进里面就涵盖了心理的咨询但是心理咨商是一个term它不仅要透过精神科医师在一般来说 我简单来讲精神科医师属于第三类组心理咨商属于"},{"start":23012.373,"end":23041.33,"text":"第一类主所以这两个是完全是不同的概念心理諮商就是像说你们一般做的非常多的方案当中你是可以透过一些心理的諮商的方式能够让他负面的群学得到一个正向的一个宣泄那你刚刚所其他额外所提到的不管是咨询或是怎么样的方案都已经涵盖在心理健康促进的范围当中所以本人在这个地方那至于人才培育那又是另外一个story了所以我认为"},{"start":23041.91,"end":23048.056,"text":"目前為止第13條院版就已經涵蓋所有的部分所以本人支持院版的所有的條文"},{"start":23049.775,"end":23077.548,"text":"好 那我也說一下我的看法因為我的條文喔是第二項是有加說政府應建立對青年持續性的心理健康支持政策那這個基本上如果再增如果說這些文字再加上政府應這個就是增加心理健康促進及心理諮商的機會相搭配我認為會讓立法相對完備啦"},{"start":23079.549,"end":23101.759,"text":"當然我們院版是有情感教育還有生命教育不過我是想提醒這兩個要從小做起如果到青年才開始教 太晚了好 這樣這個13條的條文柯志恩是完全支持院版就不需要再修對…預防物質濫用所以我們這個字眼在"},{"start":23108.683,"end":23137.916,"text":"我們看一下 修正的第14條政府應採取具體措施促進青年身心健康增加心理健康等一下 這個好像 逗點增加心理健康促進是這樣嗎 心理健康促進"},{"start":23143.504,"end":23164.13,"text":"是喔頓豪 心理諮商之機會政府應積極鼓勵學校 機構 法人或團體開設社會情緒教育 情感教育及生命教育相關課程這是院版的修正那大家有沒有意見要"},{"start":23165.979,"end":23176.014,"text":"目前看到增進心理健康促進是心理健康是要頓耗還是逗耗之後然後要促進心理智商是機會"},{"start":23177.932,"end":23202.402,"text":"因為我們在很多的條文當中大家應該知道都有心理健康促進協會心理健康促進等等所以說心理健康促進某種程度上也可以把它當作是一個名詞就誠如我剛剛所提到的心理諮詢等等都屬於心理健康促進促進可以不用是一個動詞心理健康促進是有一個專業的用法心理諮商都是各自的專業用法所以院版本身在這種用詞上面並沒有太大的瑕疵"},{"start":23204.043,"end":23213.132,"text":"主席謝謝剛剛指揮委員所提供的一些訊息不過我還是會認為自殺防止是一個重要議題"},{"start":23215.373,"end":23234.633,"text":"因為即使我們很希望能夠促進青年的身心健康可是在促進的過程裡面有沒有辦法達到所謂的自殺方式事實上這是有層次上的不同那根據上位法我們如果只是在促進身心健康可是你達不到自殺方式的話"},{"start":23235.214,"end":23261.541,"text":"其實這是非常可惜的所以為什麼我會很期待很希望大家共同來支持自殺防治因為剛剛有跟大家報告相關的數據這個不是促進健康就能夠達到的目標所以我們如何能夠讓這樣的具體的讓這個三位法可以真的去保護到我們這個青年在這一方面帶來的衝擊跟影響很希望大家能支持"},{"start":23263.398,"end":23267.904,"text":"王醫師你參考看看因為我們是覺得說連預防物質濫用就可能把青年貼上一些標籤的用語我們都盡量避免"},{"start":23281.314,"end":23302.357,"text":"那自殺防治都是對的但是就感覺青年就是比較會自殺所以說第一項我們在心理健康促進是一個general的那第二項還有SELSocial Emotional Learning然後還有生命教育其實在韓國同樣的我們預防的那個事情所以我是建議說"},{"start":23303.838,"end":23318.454,"text":"私下那些你的用意我們都理解只是我們一直很希望他的條文的列舉是正向的阿不然用說明欄啊加強啊這樣子好不好因為真的條文上"},{"start":23320.015,"end":23335.415,"text":"感謝說明來如果進入到立法說明當然是一個方式我最近五月份去瑞士開世界衛生大會在當地有跟他們國會議員有交流一共現在年輕人自殺是他們第一名"},{"start":23336.914,"end":23351.69,"text":"所以這個真的不是台灣議題是國際議題所以如何能夠真的去把這個自殺防制能夠好好的去保護到年輕人看是用什麼方法如果不能入法至少立法說明裡面可以來加強"},{"start":23352.793,"end":23371.002,"text":"好 那請張雅玲委員我還是想要來爭取這個急休閒因為其實在很多的人權報告裡面都有特別提到我們的休憩的這個不足所以我還是希望就是在這件事情上面我們的增進心理健康促進心理諮商急休閒之機會是不是可以這樣子休好 大家的看法如何交一步"},{"start":23387.596,"end":23402.732,"text":"謝謝 我想剛才因為委員確實覺得在我們怎麼樣從正面的去政策上立法的精神從正面去表述所以拿掉這一個物質的濫用那我們確實也看到了這一個"},{"start":23405.374,"end":23425.088,"text":"現在事實上國內外許多的證據剛才委員也特別提到這個衛福部的資料事實上美國 以美國或者歐盟我們也看到了一些這方面的一些資料那我想我們怎麼樣來透過健康的促進透過一些"},{"start":23426.989,"end":23447.479,"text":"社會情緒教育 情感教育跟生命教育相關課程來希望能夠降低年輕人可能的一些所謂的自殺上的一些預防讓他們生理更健康我其實就這個立法的一個精神我還是會傾向說把"},{"start":23448.92,"end":23470.817,"text":"預防物質濫用這個拿掉以後就不要再加自殺防止但是怎麼樣在立法的精神裡面把這些概念把它說明清楚表示我們在立法精神上的一個重視我想這是我們可以來做的也許建議就維持剛才這個多數委員的第14條行政院的這個原來的第13條"},{"start":23479.889,"end":23493.719,"text":"那至於休憩的部分因為我們接著在第15條就會驗版的第15條就有提到所以是不是就還是維持我們大家跟比較多數的共識這樣好那這樣部長的說明大家有點頭那所以是就按照現在我們螢幕上呈現的文字"},{"start":23508.945,"end":23523.429,"text":"修正 那個正序委員的意見是不是我們用立法說明來處理好 那就按照這樣來修正通過好 謝謝大家五附帶決議附帶決議 這個我們這個是寫13條的附帶決議"},{"start":23528.553,"end":23552.418,"text":"范芸的我有幾個附帶決議就簡短講一個雖然我們物質濫用刪掉了但是就是說物質濫用的部分現在遇到的問題就是以衛福部來講的話它其實沒有納入青年參與所以效果就不夠好如果能夠多聽青年的意見的話我想這個部分希望衛福部跟教育部一起來處理"},{"start":23553.118,"end":23574.166,"text":"另外關於諮商的資源青年團體有反應目前衛福部跟教育部這邊學校跟社區提供的相關的資源還是不大有性別跟族群多樣性的敏感度看如何能夠增強這方面或者是增加相關的資訊"},{"start":23575.486,"end":23593.838,"text":"讓這些困擾的學生知道自己可以求助譬如不用全面有一些比較有這些敏感度的資源這部分也希望衛福部跟教育部可以一起再努力強化最後一個關於情感教育跟情緒的部分其實青年特別容易有"},{"start":23594.278,"end":23618.087,"text":"因為他們對親密關係的摸索跟挫折那現在的青年其實這方面的困擾蠻多的所以希望能夠也是就是特別是在高中高教階段針對親密關係的挫折跟情感的經驗這些部分也希望教育部跟衛福部都能夠強化這個部分以上"},{"start":23620.233,"end":23646.548,"text":"好 那這樣子 針對范雲的附帶決議教育部有什麼意見嗎剛才那個范委員提到的這個情緒 情感教育這個部分請衛福部跟教育部這邊三個月內我們是改成六個月六個月OK喔 好喔 那就這樣齁衛福部要說明嗎她說她說可以 好 好 好這樣就這樣齁 六個月然後修正通過 好"},{"start":23652.898,"end":23672.33,"text":"那我們現在先環討 等來處理第七跟第九的附帶決議好不好第七是早上討論很久 然後最後就只是第七"},{"start":23682.386,"end":23699.505,"text":"第七條就是有加上劉淑冰委員的反歧視法的精神在裡面那大家桌上有看見那是不是劉淑冰委員還要再說明或者就這樣請教一步"},{"start":23701.393,"end":23726.489,"text":"請教育部做意見陳述這邊是人權促進會已經有做了一個協商聽取他們的意見之後才提出來附帶決議的所謂的反歧視法這邊因應到去年已經有提出來也有做一些公開意見徵詢然後公聽會等等的為了使它更為完備要"},{"start":23727.99,"end":23755.949,"text":"晚輩這個反歧視法的相關規定那就整體的程序這邊呢我們就希望說民間也是期盼這樣的進步立法啦所以呢就是在針對青年基本法草案裡面的相關具體的立法的時候就是展現對反歧視法的重視呢那就要求行政院我們現在這邊的協議是說改成原來現在在文字上面的四個月改成六個月六個月內將反歧視法草案送到立法院來審這部分"},{"start":23758.25,"end":23767.419,"text":"好 那個是不是請行政院人權及轉型正義處的謝參議員要不要做一下回應"},{"start":23785.268,"end":23812.64,"text":"我們配合辦理OK 好 那就配合辦理那那個蘇冰委員 那個在第五行但整體立法程序你寫就一直停就停止在這邊就急需加速好 那就改好 OK 那就這樣然後四個月改六個月好 那就是"},{"start":23813.82,"end":23829.05,"text":"就一直停止在那邊然後那個改成急需加速然後四個月改六個月那這樣這個附帶決議修正通過好那再來我們處理第九條的附帶決議也是樹冰委員的提案喔"},{"start":23829.83,"end":23847.254,"text":"他這個是為保障青年勞動權益請勞動部研議11勞動檢查法第6條第2項擬定勞動監督檢查計畫時研議會診納入青年代表的意見令請強化青年職涯探索措施那這個勞動部勞動部"},{"start":23856.277,"end":23885.372,"text":"沒有意見喔 好那這樣子 就這樣啦齁 那就這樣子複代決議第九條 複代決議就這樣通過喔OK 好那再來我們處理第十二條的複代決議就是伍麗華委員的青年生養子女之相關補貼與獎勵政府應考慮原住民族群的需求著以制定符合原住民青年生育之相關措施以提升原住民之家庭支持度那這個"},{"start":23892.645,"end":23896.426,"text":"對啊 不用渡吧 就是 以提升原住民之家庭支持"},{"start":23915.959,"end":23935.984,"text":"因為原民會沒有人來列席喔那教育部應該因為我們是因為這個原住民的相關的政策其實是在原民會可是他這邊有左椅不然就是見請好不好加個見請可能大家來轉那麗華"},{"start":23942.061,"end":23964.416,"text":"麗華 妳那個 第二行 這個卓以的前面寫 建請 好不好建請園民會卓以制定符合原住民青年生育之相關措施好 妳看一下 妳看一下"},{"start":23968.857,"end":23995.196,"text":"你沒有嗎 第12條可以喔那最後那個 家庭支持啦 賭就賣啦文字上這樣比較通順啦好喔 這樣修正通過好 我們第12條吳麗華委員的附帶決議修正通過好那我們再來回到本文喔 院版院版第14條"},{"start":23997.83,"end":24025.57,"text":"因為滿例14條是有關於平權友善環境的問題好 陳秀寶委員 吳麗華委員范雲委員 OK謝謝主席第14條 這個條文我本席的版本是沒有對應的條文我是有一點疑問就是說這條定定的是推動友善平權環境維護青年人身安全禁止暴力等等但這不是應該對每位台灣人民的基本"},{"start":24026.411,"end":24028.392,"text":"來 懲罰署 先讓大家說完啦 抱歉抱歉來 吳麗華委員 她要講點話 要不然范芸聲來來來"},{"start":24055.401,"end":24082.408,"text":"吳麗華說完沒關係 那我很快我其實就一個意見我雖然沒有這個條文但我覺得這個放在這兒特別強化教育也OK只是說因為那個歧視跟暴力不是只有人身安全那人身安全是不是可以改成身心安全因為事實上歧視會造成比較多的是心理傷害所以維護青年人身安全可以調整為維護青年身心安全嗎以上"},{"start":24090.136,"end":24109.873,"text":"14條吳麗華委員第14條是關於歧視那因為剛才也有提到這個附帶決議那我先說因為那個反歧視法它在聯合國我們退出聯合國以前好像1966年就是我國第一個簽署的聯合國人權公約"},{"start":24111.433,"end":24140.388,"text":"所以到明年2026就是滿60年啦但是我們的反歧視法消除一切形式種族歧視的這個人權公約至今就是大家都在等那我想那個行政院好不容易他也已經有做預告了所以就是在這個部分就是特別希望說那我們的青年基本法特別是原住民青年的部分像是那個中華職棒最近有好幾個例子"},{"start":24140.948,"end":24166.936,"text":"即便是擔任中華執辦公會理事長的那位吉利吉老公冠當他揮出拳雷打的時候還是會在網路言論說還那自嗨之類的言論那對這些大學生高中生而言他們已經是很痛苦了像台大之前很多這樣的事件在言論自由月就會拉一個布條來諷刺所有的原住民同學說他們火冒4.05帳"},{"start":24168.756,"end":24184.483,"text":"之類就取笑加分那甚至是像去年也有那個台中一中的那個園遊會西環那的事件那又或者說像那個前年也有台中一個國三的孩子因為被人家笑死"},{"start":24184.963,"end":24203.016,"text":"原住民打同學同學的家長來學校他就從四樓跳樓自殺那也沒有被社會重視我的意思是說其實對原住民的青年來講這是幾十年來很痛苦的一件事情所以我覺得在青年基本法的第14條在討論歧視這件事情的時候這個部分我們會特別特別就是希望說就這個部分能夠很很立刻的來推進這個所謂的反歧視法"},{"start":24214.705,"end":24239.024,"text":"那避免因為反歧視法他處理的是這種群體性的歧視那當然個別性的歧視可以用民法來處理但是這種族群性的我想對這個原住民特別是青年這個族群是很重要的所以這個部分就是我們也有做出附帶決議來就是也希望就是希望能夠提出相關的一個措施規劃謝謝我們請斯亞委員"},{"start":24245.244,"end":24267.071,"text":"這一條我本身是建議不予制定那理由是前面所說的我們希望這是一個正向的立法那不是說這些要防治的事情不重要而是說對於這些比較負面的字眼包括反歧視這個有另外的法律來處理所以我是認為這一條大家思考看看"},{"start":24267.811,"end":24290.745,"text":"是不是好像很多委員都沒有放我是建議不予制定那我非常同意剛剛麗華委員講的那個反歧視法的加速再用一個剛剛也有一個附帶決議已經有寫六個月內請行政院要提出那確實麗華其實是立法院很早開始倡議的一開始內政部要開始就族群的部分提出反歧視的法規"},{"start":24291.585,"end":24317.735,"text":"後來改成法務部因為法務部認為他用一個更全面的方式現在行政院是提到行政院的平等處代表整個政策上是更全面跨部會來看待多元的各種歧視的行為有性別的有族群的有經濟弱勢地位各種都有所以說我們非常支持反歧視法也希望行政部門在這裡聽到"},{"start":24318.806,"end":24332.915,"text":"那要做附帶決議我們都很支持立法委員這裡14條我個人是建議不予制定但這個尊重大家好嗎看看行政部門好那是不是請行政部門來發表意見好"},{"start":24334.175,"end":24348.534,"text":"好 這邊我說明一下因為原先在你訂的時候是考量到說現在不管是校園或社會環境上就是很多有些暴力或校園霸凌這些等等所以希望說這個部分能夠在條文裡面做一些"},{"start":24350.956,"end":24367.284,"text":"理念上的一個宣示跟提醒所以原先有這樣的考量如果說我們在反歧視法或是相關的一些友善環境也都有提的話我想這邊我們也可以尊重我們委員的一個建議"},{"start":24369.178,"end":24397.208,"text":"或是看一下那個行政院人權處有沒有特別的想法這可能比較涉及會在跨部會的可能還有一些可能之前比如說有些青年也到被騙到國外去等等大概可能就是在這個比較多面的希望能夠來多協助保護青年的人身安全原先大概是有這樣的考量"},{"start":24397.888,"end":24398.809,"text":"好 那大家大家看法怎麼樣 就是說"},{"start":24415.999,"end":24442.636,"text":"14條喔願版的14條有委員說就不予真定喔那是因為 不予定定喔是因為這個文字都是比較所謂的負面表述啦禁止暴力啦 消除歧視啦如果不予制定就把它改寫成一個附帶決議大簽這樣好不好可是沒有條文可以附帶決議可以啊 就是總整的整個條整個法的附帶決議是可以的整個法的附帶決議"},{"start":24444.177,"end":24460.69,"text":"那就是把這個內容就是這個內容不只反歧視啦 對對對對 就是這個內容把它寫成附帶決議啦這個條文的 願版的內容那大家有沒有意見那如果沒意見那我們是不是就"},{"start":24462.884,"end":24491.744,"text":"喔喔 好 不好意思 正訊對 我是沒有提供相關的文字修不過剛剛是要委員所提供的那個訊息如果我們把第15條就指前面兩句就是政府應訂定政策發展友善平權環境維護情人人身安全身心安全後面就不用寫這樣就不會有一些相關的文字好喔好喔就是都是正向表述"},{"start":24492.932,"end":24514.287,"text":"到維護青年人身安全 禁止後面就都不要了好 我們再來改 先把後面那個後面去掉了然後就是維護對 後面據點 維護青年身心安全然後 這個就是"},{"start":24523.154,"end":24548.372,"text":"大家看法如何政府應訂定政策發展友善平權環境維護青年身心安全OK齁雅玲委員不好意思喔 因為我覺得這個題身心安全到底跟身心健康的差別在哪裡因為這好像會不會跟前面那一條有點稍微重複了一點健康跟安全"},{"start":24553.548,"end":24572.336,"text":"有不一樣的感覺啦不過對不起如果從這個我是醫療人員這個安全跟健康事實上還是有一個層次上的差異因為安全不見得健康健康也不見得安全所以安全跟健康我們想還是可以稍微把它做區隔好 OK那就這樣子囉好 那"},{"start":24580.066,"end":24581.592,"text":"好 OK 好"},{"start":24584.516,"end":24609.335,"text":"現在是因為調適到時候最後都會處理啦好 那現在就是這一條的附帶決議就是吳麗華委員的也是反歧視法那三個月我們改成跟劉淑冰一樣的六個月好不好因為淑冰委員也有一樣的這個反歧視法要盡速來立法那六個月 那這樣子修正通過喔 OK 好"},{"start":24611.445,"end":24639.56,"text":"好 我們進入下一條 院版的15條院版的15條是運動平權相關喔基本上委員的提案都有提到運動休閒環境啊 支持青年運動平權啊那特別是雅琳委員有特別提到普設場地啊那佩儀委員有提到說提供合宜的措施那真的運動平權喔 因為我是個運動迷喔運動平權真的很重要 所以這一點大家有沒有要補充的地方"},{"start":24642.1,"end":24661.745,"text":"好 我們請先請沛宜委員先請王振旭委員再請沛宜委員我們那個單一性別優先這一條因為大家都很重視嘛那我們運動部也即將要成立我看前面有幾條其他的就是促進項目的文字裡面有些有協助有些有輔導我認為強度比較強也稍具體"},{"start":24664.085,"end":24672.694,"text":"所以我的建議是這一條在促進青年參與促進的後面加上促進並輔導青年參與運動極盡能發展就是加上並輔導三個字好 我們就先講下去待會再討論"},{"start":24681.588,"end":24695.656,"text":"好 王振旭委員好 謝謝那我這第15條原15條的部分我們是希望把常態納為一個重點在裡面我們也知道其實如果運動不是常態運動"},{"start":24697.097,"end":24708.966,"text":"可能三不五時去運動覺得我有參與運動事實上是不夠具體所以我們在這個第15條的第三行裡面希望變成一個促進青年常態參與運動與技能的發展"},{"start":24713.049,"end":24731.906,"text":"剛剛佩玉文有提到運動部成立以後常態的一個運動事實上也是非常重要的一部分所以在立法說明裡面期待就把並且推動運動常態化的生活形態的建立變成是一個讓青年人在參與運動的過程裡面需要"},{"start":24732.907,"end":24750.769,"text":"透過常態化的部分來讓他們的運動是可以更符合這樣的需求那為什麼會有這樣的提議呢是因為根據世界衛生組織在2022年全球身體活動狀況報告裡面有提到"},{"start":24751.57,"end":24771.029,"text":"很多的人如果沒有常態運動的話很容易就造成所謂的NCD就是非傳染性疾病造成的三高的問題那這個會造成無益人因為沒有運動而這樣的問題每一年會有270億美元的損失所以常態化是重要的所以不只是強調運動而且要強調它是一個常態運動以上"},{"start":24775.319,"end":24780.383,"text":"好 飼養委員對 我就是屬於那種不常態運動的老青年這樣"},{"start":24782.425,"end":24809.532,"text":"這個尊重剛剛佩玉跟那個王醫師的這都可以那我是提醒一下是不是可以在政府應訂定政策裡頭把它清楚講這一條是青年運動政策因為剛剛在處理青年居住政策那一條也是有政府應制定青年居住政策在那個婚育那個有青年就是在第一句話是青年婚育政策什麼的那因為運動這麼重要嘛就在這一條就看得很清楚政府應訂定青年運動政策"},{"start":24810.792,"end":24830.225,"text":"後面要輔導要常態這個都OK這樣子 看大家這個常態好像比較專業齁持續好像比較不專業 我也覺得常態好像很針對我這樣子所以是促進並輔導青年常態參與運動及技能發展可是它跟持續的意思是一樣的啦齁常態 持續到底是對自己的面子比較好"},{"start":24837.475,"end":24850.064,"text":"常態持續常態常態是比對常態叫做Regular規律規律或常態規律喔 規律好像規律"},{"start":24853.362,"end":24879.888,"text":"好像不運動就不常態 就是不正常怪怪的 有批評的意思我覺得規律比常態更重要好 雅琳其實我的部分我有個地方是原本的版本是提供青年健康安全之運動休閒環境我這邊其實是把安全拿掉因為最主要是有一些青年的遊戲有點運動喪失是屬於極限運動那這到底是不是符合所謂的安全定義裡面"},{"start":24882.296,"end":24909.304,"text":"所以我就會變成是說因為我們現在的院本來是提供健康安全之運動休閒環境嘛可是很多的青年的運動其實相對是比較挑戰性的然後這個是不是像極限運動啊它有沒有絕對的安全所以我是想說這個安全是不是拿掉就是健康之運動這樣子可是健康通常我們都希望它也是安全的健康不一定安全"},{"start":24913.62,"end":24940.939,"text":"極限運動也要安全不足應該是說沒有絕對安全的事情嘛因為特別是他們的所以妳是覺得安全要拿掉喔因為我只是在想說因為這個到底這個安全的定義是什麼因為對他們來說它是一個有風險的休閒運動嘛像登山啊這些我懂我懂可是安全還是很重要啊不管什麼樣的運動它都有風險可是安全還是很重要的"},{"start":24942.028,"end":24952.139,"text":"我沒有 我只是提出來討論啦就安全的去極限運動我是覺得那個部長剛剛有提到說最後一句是不是改成落實青年運動平權這樣喔 落實是機會的嗎"},{"start":24962.247,"end":24989.394,"text":"好 這樣是不是整個那個斷句給做有辣的好 這樣喔 讓我念一遍第十六條 政府應訂定青年運動政策提供青年健康安全之運動休閒環境促進並輔導青年規律參與運動之技能發展 落實青年運動平權OK 好 這樣修正通過"},{"start":24991.514,"end":25004.046,"text":"我有一個附帶決議一個附帶決議 對來 雅玲妳要說嗎等一下 我的附帶決議我自己那一張在哪裡呢有給妳修正啦妳有要看對 等一下 我自己的那一張我自己沒有那一張"},{"start":25007.506,"end":25033.639,"text":"好 謝謝那我這一個就是說因為還是要去確保我們所有的全國青年都可以均能平等的禁用平等禁用所以是要求教育部跟協同內政部定期盤點各縣市定期盤點各縣市可用之公共運動與休閒設施並將相關資訊公佈於網路上鼓勵青年參與運動休閒因為你還是要有一些相關的設施才能夠去確保你能不能常態的使用對啊"},{"start":25039.209,"end":25066.878,"text":"好 那這樣子 就這樣子修正通過 好好 我們進入院版第十十六條那這一條是保障青年藝文參與喔那 好 那我們現在先請郭育晴委員好 第十六條的部分那我的版本是在第九條啦那我版本是講"},{"start":25068.43,"end":25090.872,"text":"政府應保障青年參與文化活動 支持青年開展具創造性之文化生活那我想這個部分 原版的部分我也是抱持支持的一個態度那支持明定這個政府應該要保障青年享有藝文的教育還有參與藝文文化藝術的一些活動 保障青年的文化權"},{"start":25091.593,"end":25113.903,"text":"那增加多元性跟創造性的這個文化藝術的活動來促進青年跟地方文化的一個連結啦那我想這也可以幫助更多的青年他們的一些藝文的部分可以增加他們的這個身心上的一個發展喔那我的版本就是放在第九條那我覺得院版的這個部分其實也寫得還蠻完整的喔那表示支持好 以上好秀寶委員"},{"start":25120.334,"end":25136.001,"text":"謝謝主席這個原版第16條在我自己的條文是第10條那我希望說結合剛剛我所講的第11條的地方創生我們應該讓青年對在地對風俗民情在地的文化熟悉之後呢啟發青年反向的意願"},{"start":25137.562,"end":25164.584,"text":"讓非都會地區的這些相關的這個發展條件比較改善友善讓青年願意為回鄉發展為家鄉經營一份心力所以在我們親親法通過之後我也希望說我們青年署要會同文化部來研議相關的來鼓勵我們的青年朋友們對參加藝文之外我們對我們在地的這些民情文化有了解然後願意返鄉以上"},{"start":25167.677,"end":25190.422,"text":"好 那思耀委員我支持院版因為這個條我們討論過很多次那在藝文的教育面向參與藝文活動的面向還有文化的禁用權也就是文化的平權還有多元性跟創造性還有文化藝術生活我覺得關鍵字都有被放進來"},{"start":25191.622,"end":25207.256,"text":"所以我個人是支持那個我本來自己的條文更簡單啦我覺得還是大方向簡單就好但是院裡也很用心這個很多面相都放進去了所以我是支持院版好 OK那就如果大家沒意見"},{"start":25208.376,"end":25221.127,"text":"好 那我們就院版院版第16條通過好 那是我們17條啦 17條OK 好那我們現在看我們部裡頭的第17條院版第17條第17條"},{"start":25225.15,"end":25242.342,"text":"這是一個支持青年達成經濟獨立的條文喔我看各委員的條文都差不多民眾黨有提到這個需求有對有需求的積極辦理脫貧好沒關係等一下我們請大家一起來發言那先請吳思瑤再請張雅琳"},{"start":25244.084,"end":25267.666,"text":"那請陳秀寶謝謝 謝謝主席就小地方內部的條文兩項我都支持只是說跟剛剛一樣青年運動政策第一句話可以看到這一條在彰顯什麼所以說我是建議第一句話青年應訂定青年經濟支持政策就是這個小地方那後面文字都可以支持"},{"start":25270.643,"end":25292.831,"text":"好 我們再來是張雅玲委員好 那我的部分呢其實是針對於說因為青年所負擔的身心壓力不一定是只有撫養義務啦所以是希望可以去移除在第二項的一個撫養義務撫養義務負擔的相關字眼那這樣子會讓對於青年的支持會更為全面"},{"start":25294.468,"end":25308.615,"text":"好 接下來請秀寶委員然後秀寶完之後郭玉琴 郭玉琴來劉淑冰劉淑冰完之後吳麗華謝謝謝謝主席這個第17條的部分我問一下剛才資料委員的發言就是政府應定"},{"start":25310.899,"end":25334.234,"text":"青年經濟政策那我這本身這個我的條文是放在第九條我的原條文是政府應積極支持青年經濟獨立提供青年必要之援助並保障其穩定之經濟生活這條我覺得對青年來講是一個很重要的條文因為現在的物價波動起伏非常的大而且面對現在有美國關稅的壓力還有全球局勢的不穩定"},{"start":25334.654,"end":25353.397,"text":"所以青年在經濟的發展上更需要國家的支持所以青年的福利政策本身覺得說跟年長者是一樣的重要所以這些相關的青年福利政策與相關的部會我們要一起來研議對我們的青年提供最大的經濟的支持以上"},{"start":25355.27,"end":25369.435,"text":"好 接下來請郭瑜晴委員這個第17條我有自己的版本是放在這個第8條但我的版本更簡單在這邊其實我認為這個第17條我們的願版是政府應該是支持這個青年經濟獨立跟穩定那並"},{"start":25371.936,"end":25394.148,"text":"盡量能夠滿足這個青年他們在經濟自由的基本的條件這個部分其實我也非常認同就是有特別把這個協助減輕有撫養義務負擔的青年的身心壓力這個部分有寫進去那我的版本第八條其實寫得更簡單就是政府應該支持青年獨立與穩定之經濟生活"},{"start":25394.828,"end":25404.094,"text":"但是我們看到這個院版的部分其實含瓜的這個面向可能也更廣一點那我想這個可能更全面好 表示支持好 以上"},{"start":25406.104,"end":25421.348,"text":"好 謝謝郭玉琴委員再請劉淑冰委員發言好 謝謝大理主席在第17條這一部分政府應訂定的政策是像青年的經濟支持的政策但是它這邊強調要經濟獨立可是對於"},{"start":25426.309,"end":25445.174,"text":"另外一個就是在所謂扶植啦 就是這部分可是我覺得 可是這邊我們本黨的一個意見是在於說對於應該有需求的要辦幾 積極的自力脫貧這部分在於重點是他不一定是需要他不一定要 他經濟獨立當然是好 可是問題是他更重要的是 他可能要把"},{"start":25446.114,"end":25463.43,"text":"貧窮的這樣一個狀況把他脫離出來那當然給他輔助可是輔助這部分跟自力脫貧的部分當然還有一些這個程度上面的差距所以本席這邊是應該強調是說應該積極讓他自力脫貧的這樣一個能力是非常重要的希望能夠加入這內容 謝謝好 謝謝劉淑冰委員再我們請伍麗華委員發言"},{"start":25471.209,"end":25488.603,"text":"好 謝謝主席關於這個第17條青年的經濟政策那法條文字有說就是要協助減輕有撫養義務負擔青年的身心壓力那我在這邊發言其實也是要再次的提醒相關的目的事業主管機關"},{"start":25489.864,"end":25511.267,"text":"就是像原鄉有一些很特殊的現象一定要注意原鄉有一個特殊的議題叫做兒少家庭照顧者意思就是說他年紀很輕就已經做整個照顧家庭的義務那特別很多還是青少年那像原鄉其實像青年他們很辛苦就是讀書呢靠學貸"},{"start":25512.188,"end":25515.832,"text":"所以呢一畢業呢就承擔貸款的壓力出去賺錢呢又有義務就是要給家人錢這是原住民青年很特殊的一個狀況所以相對各種的這樣的一個壓力下來其實對他們的未來的職涯規劃生涯發展"},{"start":25530.569,"end":25550.959,"text":"其實是面臨很重大的一個障礙所以我是希望說如果這一條通過衛福部就是作為主管機關要有全盤規劃政策的能力不可以忽視一些原鄉地區的一個不同的族群需求那這個部分就是一樣我們也希望能夠提個附帶決議 謝謝好 那是不是請行政機關做個回應剛剛那麼多委員的發言"},{"start":25563.438,"end":25574.246,"text":"因為也有涉及到經濟部的部分我們也請經濟部跟衛福部也表示一下意見這個部分我們是支持有關於民眾黨的"},{"start":25581.351,"end":25598.54,"text":"那個是我說明一下再說一下清楚現在有經濟獨立是比較高的一個層次是好的現在目前是這樣講那第二項的部分呢是針對的是他要給予輔助讓他照顧他能夠支援等等的那個是"},{"start":25599.588,"end":25611.301,"text":"那個是應該就本版人黨的條文是屬於第三類中間的部分就是他不需要輔助但是他可以自己自力脫貧就在中間部分我們希望把這三個層次說清楚等於說最好的情況是經濟獨立第二部分就在脫離自力脫貧第三個就是給他協助支持"},{"start":25620.831,"end":25641.422,"text":"所以這三種如果程式搭出來的話就會非常的讓他自己有循序漸進的一個從輔助他可以自立然後他變成他自立自己可以脫貧然後到第三個是經濟的獨立這三個層次上面如果搭出來就是非常完整的讓他是有循序漸進的一種輔助方式"},{"start":25643.403,"end":25670.364,"text":"所以希望說在這邊加入到這裡叫做獨立脫貧脫貧有負面表述的感覺啦就我們剛剛從頭到尾我們都是正面表述讓有一些負面的我們不要標籤化青年嘛所以我們像我們剛剛禁止暴力什麼的我們都沒用嘛我們用那個附帶決議處理所以你這個部分意義 利益很好不然就是我們就一貫性好不好那不然就用附帶決議的方式那就輕輕"},{"start":25672.646,"end":25675.893,"text":"那個勞動部嗎請勞動部再幫我們協助一下嗎這是經濟部經濟部經濟部對經濟部經濟部好拜託"},{"start":25686.58,"end":25708.741,"text":"我們的本文 我們的本文再來看一下好不好政府應訂定青年經濟支持政策支持青年達成經濟獨立並對其穩定經濟生活給予保障及協助政府應提供必要之照顧福祉及支援服務以協助減輕有撫養義務負擔青年之身心壓力"},{"start":25710.038,"end":25727.406,"text":"那個 支持青年 因為好多支持嘛就是 支持青年 那改成 協助青年啦 這樣 好不好喔 第二個 因為青年喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔 喔"},{"start":25736.104,"end":25764.024,"text":"好 那我們請經濟部中小及新創企業署來處理一下那個附帶決議喔好 那我們接下來走下去下一條18我們院版的18條防炸防炸 這個也是有負面表述的寫法啦所以這邊是不是 大家來討論看看喔OK 好 吳思瑤 吳佩奕 劉淑冰 陳秀寶"},{"start":25765.356,"end":25792.628,"text":"郭雨晴不好意思 主席剛才有一個罪名我們回來一個19條 請後面一句好 已經很多協助了最後一個就是以減輕就好了不用再協助了好 大家有沒有意見是不是還是哪裡的協助第一項第一項 並對穩給予保障 不用再急協助了因為已經協助了已經有保障 保障比協助更強那後面那個要協助嗎以減輕 還以協助減輕"},{"start":25795.188,"end":25800.517,"text":"不用協助了啦好啦 減輕啦 減輕啦 好不好對不起 回到19條"},{"start":25804.96,"end":25826.208,"text":"好 那我再 那我那我再宣讀一下好不好 來 來 來政府應訂定青年經濟支持政策協助青年達成經濟獨立並對其穩定之經濟生活給予保障政府應提供必要之照顧扶植及支援服務以減輕有服養義務負擔青年之身心壓力好 OK 好 就這樣修正通過"},{"start":25834.271,"end":25845.24,"text":"還有個附帶決議 吳麗華的吳麗華的部落高齡化 照顧公共化 這個這個三個月改六個月 這個"},{"start":25846.977,"end":25863.346,"text":"OK 吼 好那吳麗華的這個17條的附帶決議就這樣修正通過對 OK 好好 那我們來院版18剛剛有按順序來來來 教協淑淑 杜夏思瑤先好好 杜夏主協"},{"start":25865.307,"end":25884.057,"text":"我是建議說19條的部分第二項那個防制詐騙那個就不要啦但我請大家是不是可以一併思考我是看到院版的18條跟後面的22條我個人的建議都不予制定我的理由是什麼呢"},{"start":25885.202,"end":25903.916,"text":"因為金融的素養很重要沒有錯那22條是數位的素養很重要也沒有錯可是就是特別把金融素養數位素養弄那其他的各類型的能力的我是整文看下來"},{"start":25905.077,"end":25926.332,"text":"所以我個人是這個分享一下我的觀點就是說金融素養跟數位素養我本身是認為不需要特別用特別的條文啦因為整個經濟基本法它落實的就是政治經濟生活文化然後當然剛剛講的居住育兒那個是大家很有共識那是生活面向的協助那在於素養部分"},{"start":25927.717,"end":25946.856,"text":"要挑金融要挑數位它都很重要只是我覺得會不會掛一漏萬這是我的想法大家可以討論如果18條要保留的話因為我覺得18跟22要併在一起如果有這個素養要放那另外一個素養也要放不放都不放"},{"start":25947.757,"end":25974.411,"text":"那如果保留18條的第一項的話我覺得第二項就打炸就回到打炸的專法去那我另外一個理由是22條的那個數位的那個部分其實是科技基本法有處理到那人工AI基本法也有處理到數位素養啦所以我各自覺得都有其他的專法在處理是不是這裡就不用啊不然很多素養都會你會沒福氣啊"},{"start":25975.834,"end":25994.937,"text":"OK 好再來請佩儀委員青年金融素養這一條因為這個我受林淑英委員委託過去她在財政委會長期在推動就是說因為國人金融研訓院有一個研究七成以上其實金融素養都需要加強那所以說希望我們的"},{"start":25995.618,"end":26023.214,"text":"金融素養教育推廣可以向下來延伸那目前財政部其實已經有來鼓勵我們金融機構來做金融素養推廣的這一個計畫那金管會也已經表達會全力來支持所以在實務上面這個跨部會的整合應該是已經有初步的成果也可行啦所以是建議說這一條還是來保留希望我們的青年素養的推廣可以來加強進行"},{"start":26025.25,"end":26048.729,"text":"好 接下來請劉淑冰 委員好 謝謝主席在院版的18條我們的意見是前面都沒有問題當然就是第二項的部分關於負面的這種防治詐騙等等的到整段可能就是應該要拿掉了就是我們是呈現一個正面表述的能力的培養"},{"start":26049.349,"end":26064.632,"text":"但是在這邊呢本檔有提出來是說在這個良好財務管理能力之後呢應該再加入到一個叫做提升市詐資能這個部分就只要再加入這邊它要納入各級學校這邊就是提升市詐資能這部分那它這個部分就非常重要的能夠這個應該是比較中立的部分也是一種資能的提升所以應該不涉及到負面的意涵在所以會"},{"start":26077.995,"end":26098.308,"text":"請就各委員能夠來支持這部分因為你本身的面對到很多前面那個金融勢能跟它是本身的自己的一個各種普遍性的金融的資能的提升但是這個市場的部分是另外一種的了解能力就提供這樣的一個訊息希望各委員能夠支持 謝謝好 接下來請秀寶"},{"start":26101.204,"end":26124.418,"text":"謝謝主席 再關於第18條政府應訂定政策 應該是青年金融政策這個部分我是沒有對應的條文 但是我覺得這個也是很重要因為現在年輕人這些相關的金融嘗試 金融知識 金融素養是應該要有一個比較有政策性的培養"},{"start":26125.459,"end":26152.813,"text":"那我也認同佩奕委員說的這些金融教育其實應該在往下延伸而不是說只有在青年時候才進行這相關的金融教育跟法治教育那這個金融的這樣的概念我想對年輕人是非常的重要因為我現在接到了蠻多的這個服務案件是那種剛大學畢業大學畢業了他去當車手他就"},{"start":26153.891,"end":26182.315,"text":"不覺得那個是在他從事這樣的行為之前他不覺得那是什麼很嚴重的事情可見他們對這個普遍的像舒平委員說的這個市詐或者說如何來防治如何知道自己去做的這些相關的一些法制的一些概念是很薄弱的所以說我會希望說相關的金融政策裡面對於他們一些概念這些觀念都是很重要要去培養的以上"},{"start":26183.959,"end":26208.479,"text":"好我們接下來請郭育晴委員第18條的第一項我覺得就是青年的金融素養跟知識我想是因應這個社會的一些快速的變化啦那我覺得第一項我沒有太多的意見但也沒有提相對應的版本喔但是第二項的部分喔因為它有特別寫到降低青年被詐騙風險這個感覺上好像青年比較容易被詐騙是比較負面的比較"},{"start":26209.479,"end":26234.768,"text":"是比較負面的這個我表述那我是建議第二項其實是整塊可以拿掉因為現在其實是沒有真正的研究去顯示不管是青年到底是詐騙的加害者還是被害者這樣子的一個數據出來那任何族群都有可能會被詐騙那其實已經有合適的一些法規在規範那在這個地方我是想說這個第二項的部分是可以不用納入以上"},{"start":26236.468,"end":26256.734,"text":"好部長我補充一下我沒有堅持說不放我只是表達一下我的意見大家認為金融素養跟數位素養都要放那沒關係 都放這樣子我要表達一下意見如果要放的話文字上是不是在"},{"start":26259.718,"end":26273.427,"text":"第二項不要 第一項的部分培養青年金融素養然後增進 培植就不要了 增進金融勢能金融與勢詐認識詐騙"},{"start":26287.421,"end":26300.188,"text":"因為詐騙有很多種耶這裡好像詐騙就是金融是詐知能因為金融是知能就是這是不詐了嘛 對不對增進金融與是詐知能要是詐很重要"},{"start":26313.297,"end":26327.932,"text":"金融勢能不一樣金融勢能就是你對於像投資各種管道的這種了解可是市場的這個資能是非常重要包括剛才有說什麼車手他還不知道說他還以為他在賺錢什麼之類的這部分可能有兩者是不一樣的內容"},{"start":26330.708,"end":26356.086,"text":"然後 脊梁好 財務管理能力 後面就一樣這會有點標籤化年輕人比較容易被騙其實長輩比較需要試詐的功數目委員 意思到還是我們因為真的 我自己是覺得詐騙也不是只有金融詐騙 當然它是大宗詐騙還有其他的 情感詐騙也是一種對齁 只有在七年規定"},{"start":26359.568,"end":26379.818,"text":"賣貼上去的標籤我建議那個培養青年金融素養後面就寫就是增進財務資能就好啦資能也包含防炸因為你前面的金融素養就不要再金融資能了嘛好不好這樣還比較簡短財務資能包含防炸增進財務資能及良好財務管理能力"},{"start":26381.105,"end":26409.257,"text":"財務知能 能就能力了嘛對啊 所以後面要怎麼改增進財務知能就好啦後面的良好知跟知識辨識詐 能就是能力了嘛增進財務知能 那幾良好就去掉對 並鼓勵後面就那個就好了這樣就簡短了這樣是不是有涵蓋這個劉淑檳委員的市詐的意見好 好不好"},{"start":26411.094,"end":26424.802,"text":"好啦 OK 我們這個院版第18條就這樣通過了下一題下一條院版第19條這條是促進青年公共參與這個好 來劉淑冰委員 陳秀白委員 郭育晴委員 吳思耀委員好"},{"start":26438.8,"end":26460.874,"text":"院版的第19條是在做促進青年的公共參與那這邊的公共參與的部分最直接的部分就是在所謂的選舉罷免的部分那選舉罷免的情況之前大家也都知道因為我們已經有在公投法公民投票法當中已經達成了"},{"start":26464.382,"end":26475.973,"text":"18歲的公民投票權利的一個立法還包括已經實施的所以在這邊公民投票權就是選舉罷免 創制復決因此在前面的選舉跟罷免這部分就應該也要配合著"},{"start":26485.493,"end":26490.116,"text":"後面的公民投票法所謂創制複決應該也要一起落實那這邊本黨的意見是在於說應達成是一個應達成的意思在18歲以上應該有國民的選舉被選舉權罷免的權利的一個目標然後當然也包括的是時間的譬如也許等一下可以根據後來的這個26條我們的部分去修法那這邊"},{"start":26513.124,"end":26532.503,"text":"很重要的一個說明是在於說為什麼不透過這個沒有違憲之語因為我剛剛已經想了公民投票法的一個落實就已經是已經有了先例的那也因為大家都知道了上次的修憲在18歲的公民權路線這部分的話其實大家都很努力而且是三黨的共識"},{"start":26534.285,"end":26557.583,"text":"只是他的這個門檻太高他必須要同意票到達那個應投票人的那個百分之五十以上這是非常高的門檻所以基於剛才我說的在公民投票法上面的這個已經落實而且執行的立法而且執行的情況之下這部分就請大家去支持包括過去的范雲委員等等的都已經有包括在這邊的都已經支持的是說18歲公民投票入"},{"start":26561.286,"end":26570.472,"text":"入這個法相關法了那這個相關法的幫忙涉及的就是總統副總統選舉罷免法跟公民跟公職人員選舉罷免法因此我們設定就是主要是針對這兩個部分以上說明謝謝請大家來多支持因為當初上次在修憲的時候事實上三黨都沒有意義還才會通過立法院的一個修憲案進入到公民投票的一個階段我想這部分大家我就做剛才的說明請大家來支持謝謝"},{"start":26591.486,"end":26592.107,"text":"好 再來秀寶委員"},{"start":26621.306,"end":26641.729,"text":"因為你以行政的業務的角度來看待青年相關的公共事務以青年的思維來參與的話其實會有不一樣的立場也會提供我們一些比較不一樣的見解對於青年來講參與公共事務也是培養民主素養的一個很重要的管道提供青年公共參與的機會"},{"start":26642.99,"end":26651.67,"text":"促進這個政策討論也協助我們政策的執行所以這一點我覺得說以願版的我是支持的那也覺得這是非常重要的以上"},{"start":26653.564,"end":26676.18,"text":"好 我們再來請郭瑜晴委員好 這個第19條我認為這個政府應落實這個青年公共參與權積極培育並提供這個公共參與的一個機會重點是賦予青年有實質的影響力跟參與感那才能夠促進我們更多的青年其實參與這個公共政策或者是在深化台灣的這個民主素養"},{"start":26676.92,"end":26695.216,"text":"那我的版本其實跟秀寶委員是一模一樣我是放在11條但是這個部分就是剛剛有提到就是關於選舉權年齡的部分我想是不是應該要針對這個憲法跟選罷法去做討論放到這個地方來好像有點怪怪的好 以上好 我們再來請吳思瑤"},{"start":26697.971,"end":26719.851,"text":"這一條青年的公共事務的參與我們現在在討論的青年基本法其實就正在進行青年的公共參與因為我們在這裡所主張的每一個版本每一個條文都是經過非常多青年朋友的心血投入給我們非常進步開創性的意見所以說這個條文當然我們都一定都是100%的支持"},{"start":26720.371,"end":26743.134,"text":"那就是文字怎麼羅列怎麼來呈現但我是建議主席這一條既然民眾黨有把這個十八歲公民權跟憲法的部分有擺在這裡那這顯然不是短時間可以釐清的剛剛柯志恩委員第四條之一也保留了所以這一條我們要不要一併保留然後我們之後再來處理然後先把條文往前推進 謝謝"},{"start":26746.769,"end":26772.201,"text":"好因為這部分跟剛才的柯之恩委員四支一條的部分他有一些政治性但是我想我們做保留是可以接受的好那我們院版的第十九條我們就保留附帶決議就一起保留附帶決議就一併保留好那我們現在來討論院版第二十條"},{"start":26775.305,"end":26784.359,"text":"第20條是有關於協助與支持青年團體的條文喔好 那有沒有委員要說明的好 巫思要委員"},{"start":26786.065,"end":26809.648,"text":"這一條我們應當都跟行政部門討論過很多次我是支持院版我們都把意見收攏濃縮在院版的對於青年的這些NGO跟團體的參與跟支持啦所以兩個項第一項跟第二項都寫得相對非常的完整我個人是可以支持院版OK 好 吳麗華委員"},{"start":26812.53,"end":26833.921,"text":"看到這條很高興因為很多青年很需要但是想要了解一下因為這邊有提到非營利組織及團體那又提到說會有相關的獎勵補助空間資源賠利計畫所以一般來講應該青年他們很多其實對於空間的需求我們現在一些人民團體法都很複雜"},{"start":26835.062,"end":26837.267,"text":"那他們大部分可能是屬於社團結社這種所以想要聽一聽就是所謂的這個團體是什麼樣的定義 謝謝"},{"start":26845.424,"end":26853.37,"text":"好 范芸芸這題院版的跟我的版本滿接近的那院版寫得更細那我現在比較擔心的是說我可以支持院版的那就是滿多青年團體反映實質上的問題所以我有寫個附帶訣也就一起說明一下就是目前我們的人團法其實就組織"},{"start":26867.66,"end":26889.091,"text":"尋覓登記會址啊然後就是包含年齡因為現在政黨其實只要16歲嘛那可是青年結社相對是更困難的所以希望教育部如果真的支持就是青年的團體跟結社的話應該要去考慮就是說相關的檢討報告所以我有一個附帶決議那條文的部分我可以支持這個院版的條文OK那教育部要不要說明一下"},{"start":26901.055,"end":26925.76,"text":"對NPO以及社會團體的支持特別是團體的部分因為會涉及到內政部人團法是不是內政部這個部分有沒有一些看法相關的內政部沒有人來那原則上這個方向是OK的大家如果對條文"},{"start":26929.205,"end":26948.258,"text":"那就本條文大家再看一下如果沒有意見我們就按照原版通過OK好按照原版通過然後我們來處理附帶決議范雲委員說明完了好那沒問題三個月OK三改六"},{"start":26952.583,"end":26959.465,"text":"那個教育部青年署跟內政部一起啦好不好 因為內政部今天不在啊所以你們跟他們一起好嗎一起解決問題好不好那時間就是3個月 改6個月喔好 OK 那范雲的20條附帶決議修正通過好 那我們來下一條院版第21條"},{"start":26980.615,"end":26996.293,"text":"這一條是鼓勵青年參與國際交流合作的條文那我看院版的條文都涵蓋了各種精神喔那所以大家支持 那就好 那就院版齁好 這個 召喚通過"},{"start":26997.836,"end":27019.102,"text":"好 那二十一條 二十二條二十二條 這一條是支持青年積極參與數位社會善用這個前瞻科技的條文好 那這個因為剛剛我們那個金融素養有進去 所以我看這個也要進去啦那不能顧此失彼好 那是這個 四要委員"},{"start":27033.371,"end":27037.82,"text":"兩項 寫的我覺得應該聽聽行政院也都可以支持是不是"},{"start":27039.079,"end":27064.301,"text":"因為我個人認為我們一直在教育面我們在對於數位的第一個是數位平權減少這個數位落差這是第一個要項第二個要防止數位可能發生的一些詐騙 霸凌 數位網路世界的霸凌等等所以說會在平權的面向跟防止"},{"start":27066.915,"end":27086.471,"text":"對啦 簡單來講就是數位素養啦是沒有錯啦那因為這個文字行政院提案我是沒有提啦就好啦 因為我一直很煎熬我覺得好多素養都需要但大家覺得如果要放那就院版的條文我是可以支持好 劉淑冰委員"},{"start":27093.222,"end":27108.553,"text":"謝謝主席那我現在是被委託就是因為目前討論完畢如果討論完畢我才有想到因為他有提一個附帶決議那我是什麼時候再提出來是等到我目前討論完一會我再來提出來附帶決議是不是"},{"start":27110.414,"end":27124.425,"text":"對好 那就先等一下OK 好 等一下再來說明附帶決議那我們22條我們看一下如果沒有意見我們就按照院版通過OK喔好 那我們先來討論附帶決議范雲委員的附帶決議"},{"start":27126.447,"end":27153.761,"text":"這邊其實主要也是蠻多青年團體反應就是數位上的霸凌啊譬如說敵意環境尤其是跟性別的數位性暴力這些對青年的傷害很大所以我希望這個數位數位的這個素養的部分可以特別強化這個部分那教育部可以去提出如何精進的做法也是三個月內這樣那教育部三個月"},{"start":27155.914,"end":27183.7,"text":"六個月 三改六OK 好那三改六就按照修正通過好 那我們來請劉素碧委員講那個葛立軍委員的附帶決議謝謝主席我唸一下他這個重點他可以看到在早上的這一本當中第十六頁當中呈現出來說也是為了建立一個數位平權的社會那要支持青年去參與數位的這個素養的提升"},{"start":27184.9,"end":27210.202,"text":"有促進青年平等享用這樣的一個新興科技的機會前瞻科技的使用等等建議參考現行的文化幣來增進青年對文化的使用禁用權達到文化平權的這個政策所以他這邊要請教育部會同國家科學國科會還有數位發展部及經濟部等相關部會共同研議"},{"start":27211.643,"end":27234.204,"text":"針對青年族群發放數位幣的這個政策可行性以彌平青年數位落差促進青年數位禁用達成數位平均的目標並於三個月內提出相關研議報告那這邊事實上就是可能時間上面可以不是就是說研議啦這部分那請大家來看看意見怎麼樣教育部說三改六OK"},{"start":27235.305,"end":27263.704,"text":"三個月改六個月 那就修正通過好 OK 謝謝接下來23條 院版23條院版23條是各級政府因應青年失誤需求建立青年失誤行政體系等等的相關規定吳思耀委員這一個條文 民進黨團我們有一個共同的修正動議"},{"start":27265.22,"end":27280.691,"text":"因為行政院版確實我覺得文字沒有太清楚你們的各級政府為就是因應青年事務需求做什麼呢關鍵在第二句話你們叫做建立青年事務行政體系這個這一句話我們覺得不夠明確所以民進黨的委員我們有個共同的修正動議是"},{"start":27290.936,"end":27319.209,"text":"各級政府應應應青年事務需求設置或指定青年事務專責單位設置或指定青年事務專責單位以有效來推動青年政策法規及計畫因為這個會更明確然後對於各級政府有一個比較清楚的issue否則你的行政體系那個太抽象了是不是可以支持民進黨團共同的修正動議"},{"start":27320.765,"end":27330.128,"text":"好 那個文字先修改民進黨團的修正動議有第二項沒有"},{"start":27331.345,"end":27360.306,"text":"喔 是喔 好 OK 好 那就先這樣好 那請什麼代表性啊 熟悉度啊大家覺得說不用 好 請阿范雲我就想要講一下因為剛剛有講到地方政府已經有一些是有青年事務局嘛所以的確是我們的這個設置或指定青年事務專責單位事實上比原本的文字更有保障性以上好喔 那大家看一下那第二四條我們修正成這樣"},{"start":27362.522,"end":27385.912,"text":"設置或指定青年事務專責單位有效推動青年政策法規與計畫好 沒問題我們就這樣修正通過好 謝謝大家下一條24條這一條談的是我們各級政府因寬列青年發展的費用然後優先獎勵或補助經濟跟社會不利處境的青年"},{"start":27386.852,"end":27401.701,"text":"那我想 經濟跟社會不利處境就有涵蓋委員提案喔 講到的特殊或偏遠地區以及弱勢青年喔好 那這個來 吳思耀委員 郭玉琴委員還有那個 劉淑冰 OK"},{"start":27402.701,"end":27425.312,"text":"這一條會是蠻重要的一個爭議條文啦那大家發表完意見以後也許就可能用保留的方式啦因為我不曉得今天能不能夠有共識如果在野黨的委員現在是蘇冰委員在場能夠支持的話就讓他可以推進主要是在青年要不要設青年發展基金"},{"start":27426.272,"end":27440.4,"text":"那也很跟大家報告就2019年新的最新的財政紀律法的頒布之後任何的各級政府都要適用你如果要新設任何的基金"},{"start":27441.44,"end":27465.678,"text":"都需要去籌措裁員你才能夠新設基金否則每一個法律認為青年很重要就要有青年發展基金當時文化基本法就卡到這一條文化發展需要發展基金可是就卡到財政紀律法他們因為是同一年立法的所以那時候就後來為了設文化發展基金是歷盡千辛萬苦"},{"start":27467.299,"end":27493.877,"text":"而後的每一個部會都必然要遵從財政紀律法所以都沒有新設基金除非你有裁員所以說希望大家我們的目標都是希望政府對於青年發展要寬烈預算事實上這幾年來政府對於青年事務投入的預算是史上的新高譬如說租金補貼譬如說婚育"},{"start":27495.641,"end":27500.486,"text":"所以政府对于宽裂青年发展的相关经费都努力做到"},{"start":27513.021,"end":27531.587,"text":"那希望大家能夠不要堅持所謂違反財政紀律法的新設基金因為這就是違反財政紀律法我們不希望這一條卡在這裡最後又讓財政部跳出或者財政部等一下可以說明一下現在對於新設基金應當都是除非你有自帶財源啦"},{"start":27533.067,"end":27555.603,"text":"所以宽列预算我想教育部的布板 习政院的院版就是一个比较合宜的文字的叙述也做得到真的是恳求大家为了青年好我们就不能去做出违反财政纪律法的新设基金的要求这是现在最新的法规各级政府都要遵守那也可以请财政部说明一下"},{"start":27556.704,"end":27576.796,"text":"好 感謝私藥委員的苦口婆心接下來 郭玉晴好 這24條是青年發展的一些經費喔那我支持這樣子的一個方向就是認為我們的這個各級政府應該要寬烈支持青年事務的預算那保障這個青年事務的預算的充足喔"},{"start":27577.276,"end":27597.011,"text":"那在中央主管機關也應該要獎勵推動這個青年政策的地方政府來促進這個地方政府也願意投入更多的資源那我的部分是放在這個我的版本是放在13條就是各級政府應寬列青年事務預算保障專款專用合理分配及運用"},{"start":27597.751,"end":27613.073,"text":"那持續充足持續充實青年發展所需預算我是放在第13條那這個部分我想還是以正向的支持這個我們的院版的部分然後再來看要不要再做一些細部的修正好 以上"},{"start":27614.824,"end":27643.075,"text":"好 接下來請劉淑冰委員好 謝謝主席在24條我們的確也都是跟各委員一樣就是各級政府應該要寬列各項的經費那我們特別強調說在很多的部分對於弱勢青年的這個獎勵部分事實上是沒有特別在可能都在有 可是他不是特別針對弱勢青年在講所以我們會有強調這個部分那另外的呢"},{"start":27644.055,"end":27666.15,"text":"對於說這個基金的來源這邊我們當然也希望說國家的這個財政紀律能夠維持住但是這邊也呈現出來寬烈資金費的情況之下我們還是有提出來說這個青年發展基金當然也同意是說在國家的財政經費的這個"},{"start":27668.351,"end":27696.033,"text":"的紀律完成之下我們還是我現在先把我的意見就說了之後再看看說可能台學校上保留的方法因為還是要有一個明確的裁員所以包括有要求基金管理委員會等等那種而且這個管理委員會當中要有青年代表這個是我們具體的這個主張但是我們講完之後我們希望說還是以一個整體來講但是我們可能就是會要做一個保留的方式去處理謝謝"},{"start":27699.639,"end":27725.186,"text":"那如果蘇冰委員建議要保留那就是不能支持這個寬裂這個青年發展經費啦好 那沒關係那如果要保留本來我想請賦稅這個把國庫署財政部國庫署來說明一下那可以說明還是可以說明至少我們在未來如果說保留要做協商的時候這是一個基準可以做可以聽聽"},{"start":27726.927,"end":27733.716,"text":"政府部門的說法 官員的說法那現在因為時間的關係 我看就就保留了啦 就不用再說明了 那我們寫唱室再來說明啦 來秀寶園"},{"start":27735.742,"end":27755.968,"text":"不好意思雖然說要保留那附帶9月應該要保留但是我要幫雅玲講一下我覺得這個很重要她就是希望說我們政府每年編列青年發展這相關的預算的概況可以是很有善的譬如說在同一個頁面之上我們有彙整各部會的這個青年發展相關預算是有彙整它可以很有善在同一個頁面上就可以查詢得到"},{"start":27756.348,"end":27770.811,"text":"我一個青年的身分 我上去網站上我不用每個網站 每個部會 每個單位去搜尋我只要在同一個頁面上都可以彙整到我所需要的協助 所需要的資源這一點我希望你們可以研究這是雅玲跟我們共同的意見 以上好那我們這一條就保留啦那我們再進行"},{"start":27783.103,"end":27791.137,"text":"那含附帶決議就一起保留齁有兩個附帶決議齁好那再來進行第25條"},{"start":27793.757,"end":27816.959,"text":"第25條是訂定青年政策白皮書的規定也是現在行政院青年諮詢委員會有在做的我看各委員的提案有青年發展政策綱領有國家青年發展計畫等稱呼不過我想本意就是要政府發佈國家高度的青年發展政策的相關文件"},{"start":27818.7,"end":27833.892,"text":"好 那我們其實我覺得是可以參考像客家基本法文化基本法等等來著手這一條好 那現在有委員有什麼要發表的嗎好 那我們請范芸好 劉淑冰"},{"start":27835.653,"end":27858.982,"text":"這條我的意見就是希望說吳斯堯委員跟我們大家有個版本的修正動議就是希望這個青年政策的白皮書能夠是由全國青年會議譬如說比照我們文化基本法四年召開一次的那個文化的那個基本的會議廣納各界青年的意見再訂出來那這個部分文字上我們黨團已經有吳斯堯"},{"start":27861.884,"end":27869.511,"text":"帶領提的這個提案文字那已經有一個修正版 那希望教育部可以接受 以上好 接下來請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":27872.614,"end":27895.812,"text":"在院版的25條當中它是以定定這個青年政策白皮書為主那四年定定一次因為政策白皮書很重要的一個性質是屬於政策的一種諮詢性質的那這部分可能沒有辦法滿足到目前青年的在議題上面的一個需求"},{"start":27896.653,"end":27917.438,"text":"本黨的一個意見呢是提出來了是青年發展的行動綱領而且還結合了剛才有委員提到說這個綱領當然是行政院提出來可是呢他在這綱領到時候呢必須要有經過立法院的審議有所謂有代議民主的一個基礎然後另外的部分呢在進入到的"},{"start":27918.898,"end":27944.523,"text":"進入到這個審議之後呢就是在青年的發展行動剛你的本身在由行政院出來的時候他也必須有經過的是青年代表在裡面的的一個包括有諮詢代表的在裡面在呈現意見所以也包括的是青年的代表在這邊然後呢這邊的一個公聽會當中的也讓這也讓立法院的在委員會審查的時候有具備的公聽會的這個性質讓他的一個"},{"start":27948.376,"end":27959.068,"text":"一個民意代表性的而不是只是一個行政院單方面所提出來的一個意見那這邊是我們本黨所特別要重視的一個意見在這邊說提出來謝謝好 謝謝我們再來請吳思瑤委員"},{"start":27966.278,"end":27994.087,"text":"大家請參照民進黨團我們共同的修正動議條文有兩項第一項就是每四年來擬定青年政策白皮書報請行政院核定作為青年相關政策之施政依據並由各目的事業主管機關執行因為它會規範跨部會的那第二項呢每四年召開全國青年會議就是青年擴大參與的那廣納各界意見研議青年"},{"start":27995.502,"end":28010.509,"text":"全國青年發展事務那這是民進黨團我們經過多次討論大家匯總出來的共同意見那幾個部分分享給舒冰委員剛好我參與了文化基本法跟科技基本法的制定"},{"start":28011.309,"end":28037.736,"text":"那每年因為有文化基本法所以有全國的文化政策一樣是四年要來進行一次所以國家的文化政策的白皮書就是行政院他的政策最重要的都要來做立法院可以用立法院在任何文化部門的監督去遂行立法院想要表達的名義意見珍貴的提出科技"},{"start":28039.366,"end":28060.204,"text":"白皮書也是一樣科技政策白皮書也是一樣都是行政院來核定立法院還是透過一個監督的權限來精進國家的科技政策如果說要特別針對七年政策的白皮書要送立法院來訂定那麼"},{"start":28061.553,"end":28085.371,"text":"立法院可能會高於所有的青年團體我們還是要希望回到讓青年政策回歸青年的主體而不是立法院不可避免的一些政治的參與而大家可以放心民進黨團的第二項特別把全國青年會議入法本來行政院的版本並沒有"},{"start":28086.26,"end":28107.841,"text":"民進黨團特別慎重的去參著了文化基本法的執行我們認為全國文化會議的召開是有助於文化部提出全國的文化政策的白皮書所以我們沿用這樣的經驗也督促行政院他們應當也同意行政院每四年來召開全國青年會議"},{"start":28108.982,"end":28130.194,"text":"但是青年參與政策絕對不是只有這樣四年一次而已我們行政院的青資會各級政府剛剛的條文通過的要設置或是指定青年的專責單位這些都是平常讓青年作為青年政策制定的最主要的那個actor"},{"start":28131.047,"end":28151.93,"text":"所以說真的不要讓立法院又成為一個青年政策的太上機關我相信這也不是大家的期待也不是民眾黨的原意啦我想也不是啦所以說是不是能夠回到青年政策白皮書他是比照文化政策白皮書科技政策白皮書都是如此"},{"start":28152.651,"end":28171.517,"text":"然後呢今年的國事會議是這一次我們共同加入入法我想這是各黨爭取全國青年國事會議定期的召開這是給年輕人一個很大很大的參與的機會所以藉由這個說明希望能夠爭取蘇冰委員的支持"},{"start":28174.226,"end":28188.385,"text":"好 那行政部門有沒有要回應的針對這個修正的這個版本寫在這裡然後把行政院每四年召開全國紀念會議入法好 來"},{"start":28189.966,"end":28214.333,"text":"這邊青年署都同意我們事實上就是你訂之後的青年政策擺平書會由院裡面發布之後就會請相關部會再納入相對應的推動策略以及措施去推動所以這個部分就我們尊重今天的共同的共識我們請秀巴委員"},{"start":28215.393,"end":28217.634,"text":"好 謝謝主席其實在這一條裡面我原本的條文裡面是有寫到就是說我們中央主管機關應該根據青年政策白皮書每兩年來擬定青年發展的政策綱領"},{"start":28231.523,"end":28251.719,"text":"因為你白平初四年才發布一次有時候可能會比較無法及時的調整因應我們相關的一些時事的變遷我沒有堅持一定要這樣子訂但是也是希望可以要求行政院訂一個檢視青年政策執行成效的機制讓我們相關的政策可以及時調整"},{"start":28252.54,"end":28278.072,"text":"那我這邊也幫張雅玲委員說一下她的有一個修正動議裡面也是提到說因為我們四年的這個政策白皮書是四年才檢視一次那如果說也有一個頻率就是兩年來擬地青年發展政策綱領這個部分希望說是可以及時的來回應青年的需求那我們我沒有一定這樣子堅持就是說但是你一個要有一個"},{"start":28280.854,"end":28286.14,"text":"來檢視這個相關執行成效的機制這樣子才能夠讓青年政策可以落實以上好劉淑萍委員"},{"start":28292.639,"end":28319.633,"text":"好 謝謝像秀寶委員有提到這一個部分就是一個不管是白皮書或是本黨所說的青年發展行動綱領甚至我們在現在的條文當中也有看到是應該是林月群委員 范雲委員還有葛如君委員 洪孟海委員的話他們其實都要提到的是青年發展政策綱領這個部分那這個名稱可能"},{"start":28320.333,"end":28348.831,"text":"重點是當然是行政院提出來可是行政院提出來的情況它也是要由青年的代表在做這邊的一個意見的這個意見有在參與他們決策這部分那後面我們重點是在於說有這個部分既然是這麼重要的情況之下當然不只是在這個四年要提出來那當然我包括還有因為下面的包括的是25條267這一部分都有涉及到的是今年的這個"},{"start":28349.751,"end":28364.166,"text":"事務的發展的匯報這邊的情況那這邊就一起來討論可是最重要的是我剛才聽到的是修保委員提到說關於這個行動綱領或者是政策白皮書當中的它的一個"},{"start":28365.968,"end":28381.897,"text":"他的這個成果預期成果啦還有這個績效指標等等呢通通都必須要把它列清楚如果沒有的話其實就是一個大拜拜然後呈現出來的好像有錯而且又是四年一次的話其實沒有辦法這麼落實因此本黨的"},{"start":28382.958,"end":28408.886,"text":"有關於今年的行動綱領包括後面的匯報這邊其實有比較大的一個整體性的規劃包括半年要開一次會等等的這種情況還有包括相關的這種諮詢意見很多資料的收集等等都是非常重要的我想這是一個整體的一套的配套做法因此我們本黨或是本席會主張這邊這一條做保留"},{"start":28411.408,"end":28419.024,"text":"這樣子好 那我們請教育部做說明好不好就有關於您剛提的這個每兩年你定期年發展綱領這個事情好 OK"},{"start":28419.602,"end":28448.649,"text":"好 那其實就是我們已經有青年發展政策白皮書的一個研理那到時候我們會在報請行政院公佈之後就據以作為各部會在擬定相關措施跟推動的一個依據所以這時候就不太需要再有這個綱領的這個部分所以目前這個政策白皮書到時候是可以再納入各部會的年度施政計畫一起去推動"},{"start":28453.133,"end":28478.01,"text":"我也幫忙說明一下范芸委員這邊我也說明一下我的版本的確原本有兩年一次青年發展政策綱領四年一次青年政策白皮書我後來跟教育部詢問了之後我有被說服了就是說四年一次青年政策白皮書然後產生方式青年國是會訂出來比較重要那個兩年的部分教育部還是可以做那就不需要訂在這裡面了以上"},{"start":28480.987,"end":28501.638,"text":"好 那秀寶其實我跟雅琳沒有很堅持是這樣我們只是有一個這樣子的建議因為我們必須要有一個可以檢視的這樣一個機制啦那如果說你們也是包含在裡面就是說雖然是四年一次的這個白皮書但是你們平常所做的這些相關的它是有一個這樣子的機制的話那我們是可以接受我們沒有一定堅持"},{"start":28502.628,"end":28516.716,"text":"好 那秀寶不堅持 那蘇冰委員 如果這樣子的話來看一下 而且剛剛那個進發署也有那個說明喔就是他們好不好往前推進 我們快結束了"},{"start":28523.06,"end":28542.637,"text":"我稍微再補充一下 其實那個政策白皮書作為各部會跟大家講 因為目前國民黨的委員沒有來所以這邊我建議真的是做保留 因為這個是一個配套的措施不是只有照25條 包括的是2027都這樣所以我想真的做保留"},{"start":28545.851,"end":28564.073,"text":"方案附帶決議 因為我們之前其實我們在討論簽名的條文的時候就有我們都有開那個啊 有青年匯報然後現在這個又我們有行政院召開的青年匯報然後這個又有這個每四年的這個新年白皮書而且還是青年會議的喔所以我覺得這個已經是夠相識了啦"},{"start":28565.134,"end":28594.002,"text":"那你如果你的那個還有那個青年行動綱領那個基本上可以用附帶決議來處理嘛反正都是關心青年事務啦那先等一下同樣的先暫時保留我們現在好好好那我們先往前走好不好先往前走先修憲不嫌多保留OK OK好那我們這一條就先保留我回頭再來看好那我們先再來進行26條26條有關於青年研究的規定"},{"start":28595.438,"end":28614.753,"text":"好 吳思耀委員這一條 民進黨團也多次的討論然後也跟行政部門做了一些修正的方向所以大家可以看民進黨團的修正動議的條文"},{"start":28615.814,"end":28641.429,"text":"第一項就是研究要鼓勵相關機關構學校法人或團體對於青年事務的現況來進行什麼研究 調查 統計及分析這是第一項我想各黨大概意見都一致第二項為了建立青年研究分析幹什麼要作為青年政策的制定政策評量指標的建置及學術研究發展之參考"},{"start":28643.03,"end":28660.237,"text":"所以政府為了這些事情得以依法規矩搜集處理保存公開及提供資訊也非常的完整這大概也是院版的核心各政黨應當也都同意那民進黨修正動議是針對再加了一個第三項"},{"start":28661.437,"end":28680.292,"text":"要做一個青年現況之統計有一個統計的參照就可以作為不管是第一項或第二項研究參考政策評量的根據所以我們有這樣的一個第三項的加列爭取大家的支持好 請范雲委員再來劉淑冰委員"},{"start":28687.141,"end":28704.814,"text":"我的原來的版本是青年的生活現況調查但是如果這個部分可以包含在我們黨團的那個版本修正動議當中的話那我可以接受那是不是我有一個附帶決議要把它具體寫得更清楚一點以上 謝謝"},{"start":28708.108,"end":28728.007,"text":"呃 那 劉淑冰玩之後 秀寶好 謝謝主席在院版的26條當中喔 它我們看到內容第一 呃 第一句裡面呈現是政府應自行或鼓勵相關機關機構學校等等等喔 來去做相關的研究調查統計分析等那這個部分"},{"start":28729.068,"end":28740.161,"text":"跟本黨最大的差異是在說我們本黨是強調自行或委由因為如果你是用鼓勵的部分的情況之下可做可不做那"},{"start":28741.755,"end":28762.912,"text":"沒有 沒有 可是禍啊他可以自行禍鼓勵啊那如果你有禍那表示鼓勵是另外一種方式可能他就不採自行而是採取鼓勵的話那可能就沒有沒有這樣的一個義務了所以這個部分就是一個很大的差異性我們重點是在於說應該要做只是你自己不做你可以委由其他機關來去做"},{"start":28764.333,"end":28789.313,"text":"這是非常重要的差異性還有那另外的就是說你做出來這些資料當然是一個公開資訊那就是應該把它公告在網站當中讓這個資訊可以把它的一個分析結果等等然後作為青年發展行動綱領當中神意識的一個很重要的一個對策參考因為政策絕對是要有一些研究準備等等的分析如果沒有這邊這就是我剛才為什麼會針對像25條所呈現出來的部分"},{"start":28794.497,"end":28821.142,"text":"應該是要把那個預期成果績效指標還包括的研究調查的整整的那些結果分析要來去回應到我們現階段的很多的政策青年政策當中在我們說的第26條第二箱當中其他的款當中所呈現到的這些這些問題等等都要多回應如果他沒有做這樣回應的話其實還是非常的"},{"start":28823.023,"end":28839.418,"text":"沒辦法落實到真正問題的解決過去就是因為 你都知道 你看起來有知道問題可是沒有提供有效的一些資訊 然後讓分析結果作為後面的政策就算政府就算有心要去做這些政策的規劃的時候 但是缺乏"},{"start":28841.139,"end":28861.633,"text":"資料的一個文依據當然就沒辦法去做了所以這邊也是本黨上面跟回應到第26條當中的一個重要的一個說明內涵好 所以我們真的希望說這個能夠爭取大家支持而且如果不行我們希望能夠再保留 謝謝好 我們先請秀白委員然後再來吳思瑤"},{"start":28863.215,"end":28877.481,"text":"謝謝主席 在這一條裡面 26條我們院版條文是寫政府應執行或鼓勵相關機構 機關 學校 法人來對青年事務相關進行研究調查分析及統計那在本席的條文是內在第17條"},{"start":28879.162,"end":28897.193,"text":"本來我跟雅玲委員的修正動議都有提到說政府應設立青年發展研究機構對青年失誤現況及其他事項進行研究調查統計及分析並且應該建立青年研究資料庫來提供青年政策制定政策評量指標建制及學術研究之參考"},{"start":28898.614,"end":28922.942,"text":"我看院版的條文是說可以自行或是鼓勵相關的機關機構來進行青年相關事務的研究我也沒有堅持因為我覺得不管是政府自行來研究或是鼓勵相關的機關機構研究都是希望說我們有固定的研究來產出讓我們的青年政策可以更符合世界的趨勢提供我們青年更好的發展環境所以這個部分我沒有堅持 以上"},{"start":28926.58,"end":28954.319,"text":"簡思瑤好剛剛修保委員的那些資料庫啦這些我原本的條文也有啦那我看如果不堅持我們用附帶決議來處理也可以那來回應一下那個舒冰委員的幾個指教第一個第一項裡頭民進黨跟行政院是用自行或鼓勵這些機關去做這些研究第一個政府的自行其實多數是委外啦"},{"start":28955.18,"end":28968.74,"text":"因為行政部門不可能自己去做什麼什麼他的人力可能也要透過跟委優給其他的大學啦研究機構所以所謂的政府自行其實就包括委優了"},{"start":28969.568,"end":28989.12,"text":"第二個呢鼓勵這些學術機關去法人學校去做這是一個新的反而是更重要的不是只有政府自己做政府委由別人做政府更要用各種方式去鼓勵他們民間的機構一起來做對青年有利的這些資料的統整所以"},{"start":28990.541,"end":29000,"text":"行政院的版本的第一項政府自行或鼓勵我認為是更全面也更積極也更多元這是第一個回應"},{"start":29001.533,"end":29024.66,"text":"第二個民眾黨主張的所謂的公開其實您仔細看行政院的版本或民進黨的修正動議都強調了公開我們增加的第三項就是這個統計也是要公開那公開的意思就有各種的公開在現在最熟悉的方法當然是網路的公開"},{"start":29025.72,"end":29047.592,"text":"所以這也包含了您剛所說的所謂的網路公開的部分也都含括在院版跟民進黨團的修正動議裡頭所以公開是我們重視的最後一個呢因為這是一個基本法再次要拜託民眾黨的委員您的第26條您仔細看您的第三項"},{"start":29049.335,"end":29067.31,"text":"要求所做的總共有七款這已經是比作用法更作用法的細項了這已經幾乎是施行要點的那種內容了如果您同意的話這些東西可以用附帶決議把它放進去"},{"start":29068.191,"end":29087.772,"text":"因為也可能在基本法裡頭放這麼多也真的會掛一漏萬譬如說你們認為要做求學階段青年問題的研究就業階段青年問題的研究那還有其他青年同樣面對的問題的研究你真的會掛一漏萬所以你們的第三項下面"},{"start":29088.553,"end":29113.59,"text":"很多很細的這些寫法是不適宜在基本法裡頭來羅列的可以用附帶決議來督促行政部門所以希望能夠爭取民眾黨的委員來支持民進黨團的修正動議不論在鼓勵多元的機關構來做青年政策的研究統計什麼什麼的以及公開的部分都已經踐行在我們的條文裡頭了"},{"start":29116.138,"end":29142.758,"text":"好 劉淑冰委員繼續發言好 謝謝思耀委員提出來更具體的這個說明那這個部分在修訂 就是貴黨的這個修訂版新的修訂版本當中是用還是用院版裡面的自行或鼓勵那你已經說到了自行其實就有委托的意思那但是如果說鼓勵"},{"start":29145.799,"end":29165.372,"text":"但是一定會嗎自己委託辦也是鼓勵有人就去做這是eat the old這樣的意思就是說反正一定會辦就對了就是一定會辦的意思文字上我覺得這個東西就自行對他委託或鼓勵"},{"start":29167.403,"end":29193.954,"text":"好 那這個部分那這邊又是主管機關變成說是政府我們就到時候確定就是今天因為有附帶的決議呈現出來蘇秉偉我猜一下話 不好意思如果那個要履行你的意思的話就是因自行然後頓好或鼓勵是不是或鼓勵自行頓好委託或鼓勵這樣會不會比較OK比較符合"},{"start":29195.987,"end":29221.425,"text":"符合年齡可以 這樣好嗎那你再看一下其他的OK喔這邊後面的那個剛才司要委員有提出來的意見是第三項的部分這個第26條就用附帶決議的方式 用附帶決議 謝謝那我們27條就照現在螢幕上的文字修正通過那我們來等附帶決議 OK 謝謝好 28條"},{"start":29229.412,"end":29240.019,"text":"問一下 不好意思 剛剛那個第三項的是由誰在幫要進行那個附帶決議的一個女文有協助嗎 還是我們自己本辦提出教育部可以協助嗎剛剛那個我有一個附帶決議意思跟你很接近就是把青年生活的現況調查放進去你可以看一下 參考一下要不要那個就一起這樣分開 就"},{"start":29260.222,"end":29281.799,"text":"教育部這邊教育部這邊好那不然我們有能夠協助更好不然我們現在同時進行好嗎好好好我先處理一下26條有一個附帶決議代理委員的那這個原請行政院於三個月內這個提出上述生活現況調查是具體規劃這期間相關單位改為期程好不好三個月內你說明一下"},{"start":29290.827,"end":29307.399,"text":"這邊我們說明一下 如果說三個月內要提出生活現況調查的部分可能沒那麼快 我們建議是三個月內提出上述現況調查的期程規劃因為調查要做一些規劃"},{"start":29310.7,"end":29320.864,"text":"對 騎乘OK 好喔那沒問題 就這樣子來修正通過好 26條的附帶決議好 那個鋼修保委員你有眼球 來來來"},{"start":29323.018,"end":29346.245,"text":"關於這一條本席沒有意見我同意院版的條文我只是幫雅琳說一下她有一個修正動議就是在這一條裡面她有寫到說各級政府應該建立青年參與之常設機制那其中她希望組成單一性別不得少於三分之一而且應保障較低年齡層學生及各類不利處境參與這個我幫她表達 以上好"},{"start":29350.528,"end":29357.234,"text":"好 我們先處理27條因為伍麗華委員有提7 8 9 10 11 12 20 21的還有第6條的附帶決議我等一下再來處理我們先處理27條好 吳思瑤委員等一下 吳麗華委員 范雲委員"},{"start":29370.642,"end":29388.558,"text":"27條大家也可以參照一下民進黨團共同的修正動議這個也是跟教育部跨部會討論的結果第一項跟行政院版是一樣的就是行政院要設置青年事務發展彙報這是比照文化彙報的機制"},{"start":29389.198,"end":29411.013,"text":"召集人是行政院院長還有學者專家還有各個跨部會的中央目的事業主管機關的首長以及青年代表來組成那他負責的功能是審議協調推動及督導本法的相關事務我覺得這個大家意見應該一致第二項呢是針對地方政府的要求"},{"start":29411.673,"end":29432.071,"text":"所以行政院會要求直轄市政府縣市政府因設置青年事務發展匯報在地方的level也要同樣的組成是市政府的首長召集學者專家首長跟青年代表組成一樣的做法只是第二項在處理地方政府"},{"start":29433.172,"end":29456.115,"text":"第三項其實有回應剛剛雅琳委員的意見就是第三項民進黨團的修正登錄儀式前兩項青年代表就是因為有青年代表的參與對不對我們對於前兩項青年代表因廣納不同背景青年以民主機制運作為原則不是說上面對下我挑你什麼什麼的不是 而是說一個民主的機制來產生"},{"start":29457.296,"end":29481.385,"text":"所以因廣大不同背景青年以民主機制運作為原則來組成然後來邀請這些青年代表且不得低於委員總數之二分之一是非常高的就是青年不管在中央的青年事務發展匯報或是地方level的都要有二分之一不得低於委員總數二分之一的青年代表且單一性別不得少於三分之一"},{"start":29482.205,"end":29499.231,"text":"所以在青年代表的組成的人數跟性別跟背景多元我們在第三項來含括最後一項是行政部門的意見把它挪到第四項各級政府設置除了剛剛說的青年會報之外也要另外設置青年諮詢組織也就現在譬如說青資會然後來蒐集反映青年意見"},{"start":29509.025,"end":29520.517,"text":"所以我們的很周延的思考也很多元的討論那精煉在這一條的四個相次希望爭取大家的支持報告完畢我們快要結束了謝謝大家"},{"start":29524.841,"end":29542.414,"text":"好 謝謝主席這個第28條基本上跟院版我是支持的但是在第三項的部分大家已經有討論到說增加性別比例那我除了有做性別比例的文字小整之外我還有特別這樣寫 我寫說"},{"start":29543.875,"end":29568.805,"text":"前兩項青年代表不得低於委員總數之二分之一然後且任一性別比例不得低於三分之一並因涵蓋各族群那正如同我剛剛所講的在這麼多議題討論上那麼多的條文那原住民其實他每一個問題他都有非常特殊的脈絡那所以我希望說這個部分就是要涵蓋各族群希望大家支持 謝謝"},{"start":29570.56,"end":29598.811,"text":"建議一下下因含括各族群我們很支持因含括各族群為原則好不好為原則就不會是那個因為你各族群有時候組成的那個所以說最後加一句因含括各族群為原則這樣子這行政部門應該OK啦因為你還要顧及性別啦還要顧及什麼有的時候你如果所以這應該是OK好不好"},{"start":29600.129,"end":29625.483,"text":"因韓闊各族群委員則韓闊兩個字是這兩寫嗎病看大家的意見對 要病喔好 我需要發言就是支持我們黨團版的這個修正那第一個就是民主的機制運作第二個就是青年為主體所以委員會的總數二分之一然後比照現在政府部門的所有的委員會"},{"start":29626.423,"end":29651.157,"text":"任意性別比例不得少於三分之一當然剛剛吳麗華委員的提議私藥的修正我也支持性別我要特別講其實現在大專院校的公共參與其實女性的比例非常的低落這個部分其實跟我們整個性別平等的方向是讓人憂心的所以這部分還要比對於相對的弱勢的性別的保障"},{"start":29651.697,"end":29676.698,"text":"另外就是各級政府應設置青年諮詢組織那也要跟大家講就是原本22個縣市中有21個那8月6號的時候金門縣也已經公告青年諮詢會設置要點所以這邊就從得改成應也是剛剛好最後我的版本有一個就是開會的頻率希望能夠比照食安匯報每三個月一次"},{"start":29677.739,"end":29703.007,"text":"的文字放進去那因為行政院的版本沒有所以這部分不知道教育部能不能考慮萬一不行的時候是不是至少能夠放在立法說明裡面那也是可以就是你知道以這樣為原則好不好因為如果半年才開市跟三個月開市還是讓大家感覺到它的重要性是不一樣的 以上好 謝謝我們再來請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":29705.746,"end":29725.678,"text":"謝謝主席很高興今天聽到民進黨的一個修正版本就是要定期召開青年事務委員會報等等的相關的修訂還包括青年比例不得低於這樣二分之一的這些規定但是最大的一個差異跟本黨的差異就是在於這個定期還是什麼時候並沒有定 並沒有"},{"start":29726.258,"end":29741.151,"text":"有一個規律性的規範那剛才范議員提到了這個三個月那本黨說至少每半年要召開會議我覺得這是一個合適的那你如果要做要再進行等等的都沒有問題所以我們說明欄"},{"start":29748.035,"end":29772.95,"text":"立法說明沒有沒有但是我們是說應該要呈現出來因為大家想想看今年的4月2號之前大家哪裡知道川普就要發生就是要做關稅大戰就不到三個月而已啊那就出現到這種情況所以半年來至少來去舉行應該不是太離譜的事情尤其在瞬息萬變的現在大概沒有什麼是定律"},{"start":29773.73,"end":29801.506,"text":"這部分也是給一個一個讓他可以規律性去召開的這樣可能性所以應該是時間召開的部分我覺得應該可以把它定那如果說你要說至少三個月我也覺得合宜可是覺得這部分可能還是依照會期的我們現在立法院的會期半年的一個會期這樣去考慮是一個比較合宜的一個時間點就提供希望各位委員就是能夠讓他這樣子更有效而不是定期太鬆散了"},{"start":29802.406,"end":29825.271,"text":"到時候一年也是定期 那就太遠了沒辦法因應到現在的情況 謝謝我是覺得如果一定要放在文字的話是不是就至少每季召開一次就是在那個代表組成後面因為我的版本是三個月每季不覺得很久嗎因為這是青年匯報是很重要的食安匯報是三個月一次"},{"start":29830.359,"end":29851.657,"text":"這其實可以支持耶我覺得范雲委員所說的如果已經有食安匯報這個來講的話那或者就食安是立即欠熱到人的食安的立即是有它的立即性的對 有火切心所以我們要說來半年啊半年 半年是合理好 半年啦好 教師至少好不好至少有一個彈性在至少每半年"},{"start":29852.518,"end":29877.425,"text":"喔 好啦 對 至少每半年舉行會議一次就是在那個 在哪裡放機關首長及青年代表組成的痘號後面至少每半年舉行會議一次好至少每半年舉行會議一次好 審議協調推動及督導本法相關事務看這個"},{"start":29883.15,"end":29904.807,"text":"應當文字調整一下你的每半年舉行會要放到第一項的最後為什麼呢因為那個審議協調推動督導本法相關事務是在講今年發展匯報在做什麼的對不對他是要做這些事情然後放到後面上該匯報至少每半年召開一次這樣好不好比較順好上開匯報"},{"start":29911.926,"end":29939.581,"text":"至少每半年舉行 召開一次就好了 召開一次 召開一次這樣好不好 可以嗎 法制好好 上開 上訴 上開 上訴 上該上該 上開 上訴上訴 是不是 上開法律系的上開 上該 上訴汪 汪 汪 汪參事"},{"start":29943.945,"end":29965.594,"text":"上開 上開都可以 都可以好 可以再來 下面OK都OK好 那沒問題我們就這樣修正通過好 謝謝大家好 下一條附帶決議 附帶決議 抱歉好 配義的附帶決議可是它這個附帶決議"},{"start":29971.331,"end":29983.659,"text":"跟這個是抵觸的他這個是至少每三個月召開青年事務發展會報好 所以我們這個那我們就這個就不處理了好 OK 好然後再來另外一個附帶決議來 我看看吳思瑤的附帶決議"},{"start":29993.5,"end":30007.01,"text":"講得更詳細一點啦行政院院長召集學的專家然後大家有沒有意見沒有意見好那就這樣照案通過請問妳現在在說第幾條27是附帶決議我現在處理附帶決議"},{"start":30026.362,"end":30029.524,"text":"阿伯 阿伯 阿伯到那裡喔好 再來 28條喔28條好 這個有關於施行日啦呃"},{"start":30045.226,"end":30054.094,"text":"應該沒什麼意見吧 就是就按照這個公佈日實行就本法制公佈日實行 實行等一下 這個28條因為還有個"},{"start":30058.63,"end":30084.69,"text":"法律的調適的問題如果本法親戚法如果公佈施行之後關於他跟其他法的這種調適的問題等等的這部分是就是有沒有這個就是說其他法律要不要廢止啦對 現在在院版的這邊有關於這部分調適的問題因為現在沒有其他的所以沒有這個沒有啊這是新訂的法律"},{"start":30085.731,"end":30106.336,"text":"沒有 但是其他的部分來 我的版本本來也有提這一題就是說如果這個新法公佈了那其他的相關法律是不是要廢止那我問過不是廢止 是可能修訂調適但是我問過因為沒有其他所以不需要放這一條沒有其他相關的法律有判格並沒有因為新年基本法是新例的法嘛"},{"start":30107.461,"end":30121.328,"text":"如果是在其他的像新青安或者是在勞動新青安不在這裡新青安是那個是勞動那是各目的事業主管機關管的不是這個安心這個我們問過了來法務說一下不是你們的法治人員處長好"},{"start":30132.613,"end":30151.221,"text":"跟委員報告因為這是一個新制定的法律啦他沒有相關的這個執法或者是法規平定 對所以他基本上沒有這個問題所以他不會跟其他的部會相關的法律上面有一些衝突等等嗎不會嗎"},{"start":30160.287,"end":30163.951,"text":"OK喔 好好好 那就這樣喔那這個就28條啦 院版28條就這樣那個 照案通過"},{"start":30175.387,"end":30197.521,"text":"等一下我們本版還有一個二十我們自己有一個條文就是也要跟大家說明一下齁因為目前有青年節嘛對不對三月二十九 等一下還沒有到那裡我先宣告這裡通過了 結束你剛才說施行日期啦我想施行日期不是最後一條了沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":30206.311,"end":30232.562,"text":"好 那現在有然後現在有那個新增條文的17條好 這個本席也有喔來來來 17條就是有關於剛剛舒冰說的青年日喔好 那我們現在談青年日那我先請吳思瑤 郭育晴然後劉舒冰 OK"},{"start":30233.482,"end":30261.655,"text":"那個謝謝大家因為這我在2023年12月13號提出的時候就這一條然後大家都很關注獲得大家的支持那黨團的修正動議就是政府應訂定全國青年日以支持青年並提升各界對青年議題之關懷所以大家如果都支持的話我們就是訂定全國青年日至於全國青年日要訂哪一天就讓青年代表的那些機關那些單位他們去討論"},{"start":30262.876,"end":30279.61,"text":"好 我們不要用立法院來指定的方式為年輕人決定全國青年日是哪一天所以這其實就是讓青年團體去做公共參與一個很好的題目所以我們是不是可以訂定全國青年日這樣子好"},{"start":30283.151,"end":30298.178,"text":"好 那我們再來請郭育晴對 這一條我是放在我自己版本是第14條就是也是應該政府應該要訂定全國青年日支持青年並提升各界對青年議題的關懷"},{"start":30299.679,"end":30317.143,"text":"那Echo一下就是剛剛四要委員我想因為除了我以外怡瑾應該也有提然後范雲委員也有提那我想這個部分我們其實都是支持跟肯定那至於是要哪一天是由青年他們自己本身來做一個決定是最好的"},{"start":30317.603,"end":30344.331,"text":"好 以上好 那我們再來請劉淑冰再來范雲 再來雅玲OK好這邊院版是沒有那本黨的版本當中特別針對說青年不是用青年日 而是用青年週的部分是因為平常的時間各級政府都有在呃 在呈現在辦公共青年參與或是青年的這個國際合作的這種"},{"start":30345.271,"end":30368.519,"text":"事項那做成果表現的話呢如果用一天來做紀念的或是來表現的話其實不太夠的也是要去彰顯說青年的這個主體性跟自我的探索的精神那所以我們就是會主張是有個青年週但是也是尊重主管機關那另外的部分呢在這個青年週這部分是不是沒有在跟這個放假這邊並沒有做一個連結而是說"},{"start":30369.239,"end":30385.909,"text":"鼓勵到說這種青年的事務性的成果的展現等等的那會鼓勵說各級政府或是機關或是公民營的事業機關機構對於青年人都可以提供一個適度性的一個休假但是只是一個建議的鼓勵性質而已就可以做上說明"},{"start":30387.698,"end":30414.583,"text":"這是我們本黨的一個特色 謝謝好 我們再來請范芸再來雅琳因為我是有青年團體跟我講希望能夠接軌國際定所以我的部分是用聯合國的8月12日但是我想我支持本黨的剛剛吳思耀委員講的提案本本我覺得由青年自己來定更有意義大家更能夠認同所以我是支持我們民進黨的修正動議好 再來雅琳"},{"start":30417.5,"end":30444.709,"text":"好那我的版本是在第25條那也是一樣啦跟前面其實都是一樣的就是我認為還是應該有個定一個相關的青年日讓全國的這個國家呢對於青年族群的相關的需求會特別的重視那我也一樣因為其實這個整個青年基本法的精神就是要鼓勵青年參與公共事務嘛所以我也認為這個日子呢應該是由青年們自己討論來決定而不是由大人來擅自做主張這樣子"},{"start":30447.878,"end":30458.808,"text":"OK 好 那這個青年日看來大家很有共識喔那這個青年日 因為有16個委員的版本都有說要訂定青年日啦那當然民眾黨的青年週啦吃粥粥 週然後這個"},{"start":30463.706,"end":30482.854,"text":"所以這個看起來大家來看一下就是我們曾訂在第29條因為大家的條次都很不同那我們就訂在第29條那政府應訂全國青年日以支持青年並提升各界對青年議題的關懷這樣好不好 這個舒冰委員我們從日開始啦好 從日 青年日先開始而且這個是青年自己決定的青年日而不是政府規定的青年日這個很 這個 這個"},{"start":30493.991,"end":30511.103,"text":"很進步然後先求有再求好啦沒有 你現在我們所以才是保留啦因為如果你現在就先產成日而且這地方大家我們並沒有在放假這種情況只是一個成果的展現是一個週所以都沒有影響到作息還有工作時程的話展現一個青年週是讓他們的表現跟成果能夠好好的去進行啊可是這樣人家會勤奮啊像我婦女我也要婦女週"},{"start":30522.41,"end":30547.863,"text":"對啊 重陽週我們有沒有可能就是所有的人權相關的紀念都是日圍我們目前都是紀念日都是日嘛對啊 兒童週你活動辦一整個禮拜這一個月都沒有問題但是相關的人權都是因為青年的他的活動力是比較強的其他的部分兒童日比較聚焦 兒童咧 母女咧日比較聚焦啦我覺得我們一個一致性啦好啦 最後一步 最後一步要回答來來來 告訴我"},{"start":30553.171,"end":30579.473,"text":"我想感謝這一個委員的一個關心但是事實上就我們大概現在看這一個所有的世界各國大概都是用日但是為了慶祝這一個特別的節慶會有一系列的festival或者研討會或者活動可能一個禮拜兩個禮拜甚至一個月這是可能的也就是說我們是不是就"},{"start":30580.234,"end":30604.46,"text":"日裡邊我們確定這一個精神但是它本來是可以有系列性的一系列的這樣一個活動的慶祝並沒有排斥大概是這樣的謝謝部長的說明那這個可以把它放到立法精神上面就這一條當中去呈現瑞士有這樣的我覺得你已經體會到本黨當初要提供這樣的一個設計的意涵在我覺得這非常重要的那是不是怎樣可以把這個精神放到立法局上面"},{"start":30606.46,"end":30635.442,"text":"就是說透過這個日子裡面我們可以規劃一系列的這些慶祝的活動大概類似這樣的好 那怎麼呈現法是就它立法組織上面呈現嗎蛤用立法說明處理好 確定好會 會 會 會授權教育部來寫那些文字然後 OK好 OK 好那我們這一條就增訂好 內政部要說明 內政部要說明好 內政部好 唐專委"},{"start":30640.188,"end":30658.408,"text":"這部說明一下現行的紀念日及節日14條議這個之前通過的第5條第7項以明定3月29日為七年節屬於紀念但不放假的節日且該節日行之有年要代定七年日的話會有點混淆那見起很多"},{"start":30660.05,"end":30675.355,"text":"這是基本法紀念日是一個條例沒關係之後有了讓青年團體去訂定的所謂的青年日是什麼我們再回來思考紀念日條例是不是要跟著調整這是基本法好嗎好謝謝你的提醒好那我們這一條就這樣徵定通過"},{"start":30682.675,"end":30708.47,"text":"那調次的話喔施行日期當然是一定最後一條所以這條是我們在授權這個議事組來調整好那我們來處理附帶決議喔私咬的私咬的跟那個應不可以處理了喔因為你是應訂定全國慶年日那我們這條文就已經處理了OK好然後那個伍麗華的"},{"start":30714.228,"end":30724.277,"text":"好 追認追認第六條的附帶決議第六 我一併處理啦6 7 8 9 10 11 12 20 21的附帶決議那21條 教育部有修正OK 好"},{"start":30738.001,"end":30748.014,"text":"那21條就修正通過他說他知道了 21條的附帶決議就修正通過那其餘6 7 8 9 10 11 12 20就照案通過 OK 好"},{"start":30754.366,"end":30768.116,"text":"那劉淑冰的18條附帶決議喔那就按照這個文字上經濟獨立耶就按照這個文字這樣子 召喚通過還有26條不是嗎還有26條的部分還有 等一下 還有一個25條"},{"start":30779.736,"end":30783.499,"text":"還有什麼附帶決定要處理的嗎"},{"start":30797.284,"end":30824.739,"text":"有25條有柯市民委員這邊有附帶決議其實已經在早上的這個部分25條這裡好 等一下 市民等一下來 我先處理 有妳看剛才處理過她的第7條附帶決議裡面有問題要寫給我修正原請經濟部及環境部所有要環境部在前面原請環境部及經濟部可以可以可以"},{"start":30827.08,"end":30849.575,"text":"好 那這個第七條伍麗華的附帶決議就這樣 時間要三個月改六個月 那我們第七條伍麗華委員的附帶決議就修正通過 就是原請環境部及經濟部針對然後再"},{"start":30852.386,"end":30866.233,"text":"六個月 六個月 提出後續相關規劃 好修正通過好 那吳麗華 我們回過來好了 第六條第六條的附帶決議"},{"start":30869.076,"end":30880.743,"text":"文字有修正 為達成族群主流化之目標青年參與公共事務之成員組成應有一定比例的原住民青年這樣修正通過第6條吳麗華的附帶決議第10條第8也有修正"},{"start":30894.4,"end":30921.887,"text":"好 那第八條改九個月第八條吳麗華的修正動議附帶決議改成九個月 修正通過那第十條後面文字本來是並提升原住民青年創業成功率然後改成追蹤追蹤輔導原住民青年創業成功率這樣嗎 追蹤輔導 追蹤輔導"},{"start":30925.287,"end":30953.861,"text":"好 那這個也將修正通過第十一條沒有修正吧有好 十一條 十一條第二行原請加原民會會同國發會及相關主管機關針對如何促進原鄉地區地方創生獎勵原住民青年反流鄉"},{"start":30955.376,"end":30980.714,"text":"研議法規鬆綁可行性 六個月內提出後續措施好 如此修正 修正通過 OK二十條 吳立法的二十條也要修正就是在第一行的最後面 原請 原民會 內政部 清發署就這樣 修正這些文字 好 我們修正通過"},{"start":30987.557,"end":31004.187,"text":"OK 好 那現在好 我看 來"},{"start":31016.963,"end":31027.108,"text":"還有在這邊宣告一下喔 沒有對應到我們院版的齁 這個第一條到二十九條的相對應版本那我們就不予採納 不予處理 OK 好好 那我們剛剛二十六條齁 那個劉書斌的附帶決議對 附帶決議"},{"start":31039.476,"end":31054.919,"text":"我唸一下 請教育部結合各相關部會 於9個月內研議下列資訊資料資料調查規劃一 青年發展政策之預期成果績效指標達成行行知曉指標並以成果效益行"},{"start":31055.239,"end":31077.359,"text":"指標為2 求學階段之青年問題3 就業階段之青年問題3 弱勢青年問題5 社會住宅需求資訊住宅市場資訊及其他相關之青年住宅問題6 各級政府20條第一項獎勵補助之提供其他行政資訊之匯總7 中央主管機關擬定行政院青年事務發展會報核定"},{"start":31078.362,"end":31088.585,"text":"立法院審議或各方提出各項其他重要之青年問題這個是26條的附帶決議好 那沒問題我們就這樣照案通過好 那17條吳麗華的附帶決議取消好 那就把它撤除 撤掉那25條 來 我們回到25條保留的本條文我們回來25條好不好 來要刷 要刷 要刷"},{"start":31112.711,"end":31113.012,"text":"喔喔"},{"start":31124.264,"end":31152.879,"text":"好 二五齁 因為剛剛對 就是樹冰委員剛剛的附帶決議就是把妳的那個條文第三項的好幾款用附帶決議處理嘛所以就照二十五條剛剛我們討論的條文通過啊是啊OK 好 這個我的問題 我的沒有問題我現在是柯志文委員好像有早上就有一個附帶決議的在我們的這個文件上面這部分那十之一沒有沒有 二十五條的附帶決議是寫上面二十五條的附帶決議請大家看一下"},{"start":31154.461,"end":31178.621,"text":"在前面的都是屬於柯志恩委員的這個相關的整個這部分你那邊是第幾條 因為條是有點亂好像有一本就是剛才早上有完全是民進黨的修正的相關檔點OK其實志恩委員25條的附帶決議就是我們剛剛條文裡面處理過的今年政策白皮書四年發布一次然後呢這個"},{"start":31183.424,"end":31199.233,"text":"然後全國青年國事會議對 我們剛入法了對 條文裡頭都有了好 那就不予處理 OK好那我們回頭處理25條那我25條就剛剛那樣子就25條秀出來一下好不好就這一個 來來來沒有 不是就是剛剛這一個那個啦 26是 這邊的26這邊的26對啦好 那就這樣修正通過好 OK"},{"start":31215.654,"end":31215.915,"text":"原本的24條"},{"start":31219.276,"end":31244.501,"text":"因為院版的調適跟這個修改後的調適不一樣我說了院版為主 他們再進行調整好 那我們現在請問一下24條的第二項有沒有民眾黨版的部分有沒有保留24條保留是嗎 保留嗎 OK 好 謝謝確認24條是關於法案基金的我們保留好了 謝謝好 那我來宣告囉"},{"start":31249.55,"end":31260.279,"text":"保留條文第二條然後釋之一條19條含附帶決議24條含附帶決議我們保留條文就這四條好 我們處理臨時提案還有臨時提案 代言委員的大家看一下好不好有修正喔 這個"},{"start":31276.579,"end":31286.725,"text":"對 前面的114學年改成113然後最後一行並納入下一年度的獎補助審查項目增訂下一年度"},{"start":31289.933,"end":31309.134,"text":"簡單說明一下我有兩個臨時提案第一個就是因為現在有幾個私立大學他們針對選修課的門檻定得太高而且還有超過20人以上跟公立大學形成強烈的差距根據我辦公室的研究"},{"start":31309.634,"end":31332.435,"text":"不管是美國 德國 法國 或是韓國的公司力大學都沒有這麼的高這樣其實影響學生的休課權益也影響老師的開課權所以我們請教育部去檢討然後納入下一年度的獎補助的審查這個第一個好 那第一個有三個他兩個月改三個月修正我都接受好 那第二個"},{"start":31333.115,"end":31349.424,"text":"那第二個是關於就是台灣大學今年六月他們成立一個校友創投的管理顧問公司那引起就是台大的教師蠻多的爭議跟投書那他們在校務會議之後提出來校長並沒有"},{"start":31350.464,"end":31378.069,"text":"好好的回應那據瞭解這是跟國發會的含附有關那國發會是說是依照日本國立大學的制度所以我希望教育部去研究日本的文部科學省就日本的教育部是怎麼規範相關的如果公立大學要成立類似的這種創投公司那在作為未來的消費基金監理機制的參考我想這樣子有一個比較的制度那大家比較能夠好好的討論相關的監督問題 以上"},{"start":31380.213,"end":31384.541,"text":"好 那這兩個臨時提案都來修正通過OK 好好 那我們"},{"start":31388.837,"end":31413.166,"text":"今天的審查結果免於重複宣讀在不影響條文文藝的前提下文字 條次跟標語符號為統一的體力我們就授權議事人員來修改列入記錄那位於採納的條文也授權議事人員來確認那各提案喔剛剛的臨時提案喔如果 如果有委員要補簽喔那也請議事人員詳細登載來議事錄那關於今天的會議做如下決議"},{"start":31414.666,"end":31438.956,"text":"對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆的部分請相關機關盡速答覆第二青年基本法草案以全部審查完略那交由黨團協商那並按你具審查報告那提起院會討論那院會討論時由林召集委員以儘補充說明報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"},{"start":31442.719,"end":31442.999,"text":"大合照"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}