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謝謝召委 請工部長工部長 早我先請教一下 這個政協會後然後中共宣布了十大的措施那這十大措施其實對台灣有什麼樣的影響我可不可以先請教一下 部長怎麼來整體判斷"},{"start":29.902,"end":53.442,"text":"因為這十大措施其中只有大概只有一項跟經濟部比較有關就是什麼對於中小企業有一個什麼交易的事實上他寫得很模糊也不是很清楚他到底那我問一下部長主管經濟部的部長你也擔任國發會主委你怎麼來看待這十大的措施對台灣會不會有什麼樣整體性的影響因為事實上台灣現在來講"},{"start":55.023,"end":82.619,"text":"以去年經濟成長率是達到8.68%今年可能超過7%對ADB最新的估計所以這幾年來甚至於是這五六年來台灣的經濟都非常非常好那也沒有受到什麼中國的會台的什麼措施的影響台灣本身已經走出自己很好的路而且從之前的很依賴中國到現在其實我們也因為中國很多的時候它的"},{"start":83.819,"end":111.785,"text":"開放跟禁止 開放禁止之間其實是沒有太多的可遵循的一些依據的啦那往往可能政黨之間有一些談判或什麼的就四方他認為的利益多就丟出來所以其實對我們的很多的不管是產業或農業產品其實很多不確定性所以我們現在走向了國際的這個路線那依賴度也大量的降低跟中國之間的這個所以這個反倒是讓我們的經濟其實我們的股市也都上到了非常好的一個數字"},{"start":113.126,"end":127.183,"text":"我們認為這是一個正確的道路但是我還是要問一下裡面我看到很多包括他設立很多的條件這個一二點是國共兩黨的什麼常態化溝通或青年的溝通那甚至於很多的都還要"},{"start":128.124,"end":155.381,"text":"設定比如第五個所謂的這些農業產品還要建立在堅持在九二共識包括很多漁業的還要符合條件甚至於食品的註冊等等也要符合條件或者是符合什麼需求或者是連電視劇啊紀錄片動畫還要導向正確這些東西當設定這麼多條件的時候部長你怎麼看第一個它有真正的效果第二個是這樣的條件適合嗎"},{"start":157.845,"end":181.123,"text":"事實上之前有些措施是它在2016年陸續本來都有已經開放的項目它都把它取消掉那當然是政治上的考量我剛才也提到了從2016年我們也從替代市場或分散市場也獲得了很好的成果所以它現在再次的開放的話那我們當然也不要設有條件是最好的"},{"start":181.323,"end":198.579,"text":"因為原來就沒有那些條件他要給你停也不一定要什麼樣的具體的理由啦那他要開放的時候又設了一些條件那他要條件你無法達成無法那也是也是他說了算嘛所以就是說兩岸之間如果說可以有比較穩定的"},{"start":200.141,"end":218.418,"text":"簽訂什麼樣的確定的合約就是政府對政府如果可以簽訂比較拒定合約而不是說單方面的就是說我今天說怎樣明天說怎樣那對於企業界來講是非常困擾的一件事那我問一下部長跟特定政黨接觸過後直接就放出這些東西出來你認為這樣它有沒有具有背後的一些政治目的"},{"start":219.319,"end":238.957,"text":"我認為還是如果說政府對政府還是最好的方式一定要政府對政府嘛你再跟政黨談過任何東西你跳過政府跳過中華民國政府想要來跟談的話事實上這並不會達到實質上的效果所以還是必須政府對政府那我再問那這背後有沒有特定今年年底要選舉有沒有選舉的目的"},{"start":240.191,"end":268.562,"text":"介入選舉的目的這個我就沒有辦法去預測但是我還是覺得就是說部長應該不是沒辦法預測是不方便回答啦我認為這個部分大家都看得很清楚啦他一定有背後的目的啦他想要去影響想要去試圖去干擾嘛所以我希望這一塊政府還是要更以審慎妥善處理一些作為啦不要讓這樣的產生對於整個不管是所有在政策上面或所有上面的負面上的一些效果"},{"start":269.222,"end":286.012,"text":"我再來看一下其實我們這幾年經濟狀況其實相當好從去年剛剛提到了8.68到今年7甚至有稀微又更好這在台灣以這樣的狀況來說是非常不容易的包括我們的股市狀況所以我們現在走在一個正確的道路上那我們認為剛剛部長也提到我們的交流貿易不應該設有任何政治前提"},{"start":289.834,"end":316.35,"text":"當你有涉有政治前提當你跳過了政府跟政府間的談判跟溝通跟交流的時候其實就會出很多問題而且它有可能形成是單一片面式的決定我是要給就給我是要停就停這對於我們來說是一個非常大的風險所以才會有所謂的養套殺這樣的狀況的出現部長應該同意這樣的看法吧是是是那我再問一下陸委會說他們掌握了情資中共動員以上逼證"},{"start":317.31,"end":344.154,"text":"部長有這樣的狀況嗎這個我就不知道 略微才知道部長應該也有所那個那我們希望這些都是要審慎妥善去做注意的就是說我們還是必須要穩建住台灣是走在一條正確的道路上面那應該要想辦法讓國人更加的清楚堅定我們這樣的一條道路這才是一個比較穩確的道路那如果是透過政治的手段"},{"start":344.634,"end":361.843,"text":"或者是透過有一些政治的目的的話應該讓國人更加的清楚對我們政府目前的方向正確的方向更加的有信心這才是台灣應該要走向全世界一條道路那不要受到特意的政黨或特意的政治的目的去干擾這反倒會影響到台灣未來長遠的經濟發展"},{"start":363.464,"end":367.605,"text":"台北在抱怨說耗水費的問題然後應該要認為耗水費那我先問一下全國的電網是不是很多台北的供應那是不是應該要負擔所有的一些輸電的成本"},{"start":387.591,"end":405.38,"text":"我們來看一下這個表啦齁台北市的發電量到了2025年2.9億度它的用電量164.1億度將近161度超支了這麼多而這些電都其他從外線送來的可能中部從南部送上來的這些所有的過程中都有輸電成本這個要不要計算進來"},{"start":407.566,"end":422.912,"text":"我們當然是希望說所有的國人受到的待遇都一樣盡量不要用區域性來看這個但是這個也是希望那我問你部長這耗水費其實是大戶用的名詞並不是給他這樣用的全台灣也沒有一個水庫要收"},{"start":424.372,"end":444.972,"text":"因為大用戶就是用水用比較多的這個大戶我們當然希望他可以就是這是耗水費的目的嘛不是給你利用這種少個名目來收這個錢的嘛那更何況是台北市的發電量遠少於他的用電量那你發電這麼少的狀況下你還要想要收這個耗水費這真的是"},{"start":445.913,"end":449.116,"text":"所以部長覺得這個不合理吧那我另外要問的是那輸電成本的部分要不要計算一下"},{"start":465.551,"end":494.527,"text":"輸電成本這也是台電重大的成本啊你為了光為了要把電送進去台北市花了這麼多錢這個要不要算一下是是是部長這要計算一下好不好你不計算人家就幫你幫你算了很多你他算他有利他沒有算到他讓國家為他付出多少成本他沒有算到台電沒有算到經濟部為台北市付出多少成本整天在算著這些我認為這已經佔了全台灣的便宜這麼多的人還用這樣的角度在思考我認為是非常缺缺乏格局也非常缺乏氣度的"},{"start":496.116,"end":504.805,"text":"這個我請那個台電能不能計算給我 輸電的成本從中南部或其他縣市送進去台電要的成本可不可以給我 一個禮拜你可以把這個資料給我"},{"start":506.414,"end":535.251,"text":"我們會估計一個數字但是也跟委員報告就是我們輸電成本依照現在的電價公式是平均全國平均啊 對啦但是你如果是在地有 你有你的電廠的話你當然可以降低成本嘛你電力要從南部送上來 中部送上來那成本絕對是高很多嘛這些成本算給我們至少當台北市的市長 首都市長缺乏格局講出這種話的時候至少我們要告訴他我們都還沒跟你算你的輸電成本花了這麼多錢台電為了這些花了多少錢"},{"start":536.051,"end":561.236,"text":"所以我認為要講之所謂的耗水費的時候先來談談這件事情再來區別電價的部分我之前提過很多次了去年提過不應該南部發電然後其他部發電部分還有不同的電價至少對於發電的城市給予公平合理的對待就算少一點點也是一種對發電城市的一個尊重我提了很久了部長好像還沒有提出任何的評估報告給我什麼時候給我"},{"start":562.951,"end":581.658,"text":"是,事實上我們有在算,然後他們也跟我報告了一下,但是中間還在持續的這個我們看一下啦,區別電價的部分,包括韓國,包括英國,德國都已經有評估報告出來韓國是暫緩實施,英國是沒有實施,德國沒有實施,至少人家有個評估報告出來,部長"},{"start":582.708,"end":608.314,"text":"多久可以給我評估報告 至少給評估報告我沒有要求你馬上實施但是至少給我一個評估報告從去年講到現在 總諮詢講到部門諮詢都沒有什麼時候給我 多久今年做完啦 不能今年 我沒辦法接受這麼久因為台電公司有一個委託報告我不認為這個這麼困難一個月內可以完成嗎 一個月內給我可以嗎你們要不要給而已 我不認為你們手上沒有一個月給我好嗎"},{"start":609.906,"end":618.103,"text":"好兩個月給我好不好我要一個看到一個評估要不要做不做是另外一回事應該區別店家的評估報告要出來因為其他國家都已經有出來了好好謝謝好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:13.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:13:13.387000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:14.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:13:20.669000+08:00","text":"請龔部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:20.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:13:20.829000+08:00","text":"龔部長早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:20.829000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:13:21.909000+08:00","text":"賴委員早。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:21.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:13:35.632000+08:00","text":"我先請教一下，鄭習會後中共宣布十大措施，這十大措施對臺灣有什麼樣的影響，我可不可以先請教一下，部長怎麼來整體判斷？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:37.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:13:52.134000+08:00","text":"因為這十大措施中，大概只有一項跟經濟部比較有關，就是對於中小企業有一個什麼交易的，事實上寫得很模糊，也不是很清楚他到底……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:13:52.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:14:00.561000+08:00","text":"那我問一下主管經濟部的部長，你也擔任過國發會主委，你怎麼來看待這十大措施對臺灣會不會有什麼整體性的影響？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:14:00.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:14:08.146000+08:00","text":"因為事實上以臺灣現在來講，去年的經濟成長率是達到百分之……8.68%。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:14:08.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:14:24.775000+08:00","text":"對，8.68%，ADB最新的估計今年可能超過7%，這幾年來，甚至於是這五、六年來，臺灣的經濟都非常、非常好，也沒有受到中國惠臺措施的影響，臺灣本身已經走出自己很好的路……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:14:25.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:14:43.121000+08:00","text":"而且從之前很依賴中國到現在，也因為中國很多時候的開放跟禁止之間，其實是沒有太多可遵循的依據，往往可能在政黨之間有一些談判等等的，就釋放他認為的利多丟出來。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:14:43.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:02.387000+08:00","text":"所以其實對我們很多的，不管是產業或農漁產品，都有很多不確定性，我們現在走向了國際的路線，跟中國之間的依賴度也大幅降低，所以反倒讓我們的經濟、股市也都上漲到非常好的數字，我們認為這是一條正確的道路。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:03.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:36.857000+08:00","text":"但是我還是要問一下，內容裡面看到設立了很多的條件：其中一、二點是關於國共兩黨的常態化溝通或青年的交流；甚至很多地方都還要設定前提，比如第五點的農漁產品輸入大陸，還要在堅持九二共識之下；包括很多的漁業還要符合條件；甚至於食品的註冊等等也要符合條件，或者是符合什麼需求；連電視劇、紀錄片、動畫片，還要導向正確等等。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:38.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:40.319000+08:00","text":"他設定這麼多條件的時候，部長，你怎麼看？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:41.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:42.840000+08:00","text":"第一個，有真正的效果？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:42.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:43.381000+08:00","text":"第二個，這樣的條件適合嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:45.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:15:55.292000+08:00","text":"事實上，有些措施是他在2016年陸續……本來都已經有開放的項目，他都把它取消掉，那當然是政治上的考量。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:15:56.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:10.724000+08:00","text":"我剛才也提到了，2016年我們也從替代市場或分散市場獲得了很好的成果，所以他現在再次開放……當然不要設有條件是最好的，因為原來就沒有那些條件。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:11.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:14.228000+08:00","text":"他要給你停，也不一定要什麼樣具體的理由。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:15.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:21.274000+08:00","text":"他要開放的時候，又設了一些條件，他的條件我們無法達成，那也是他說了算。是啊！","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:22.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:39.151000+08:00","text":"所以如果兩岸之間可以比較穩定地簽訂什麼樣確定的合約，也就是政府對政府如果可以簽訂比較具定的合約，而不是單方面的今天說怎樣，明天又說怎樣，這個對於企業界來講是非常困擾的一件事。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:39.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:46.398000+08:00","text":"問一下部長，跟特定政黨接觸過後，就直接放出這些東西，你認為這樣背後有沒有具有一些政治目的？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:47.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:50.402000+08:00","text":"我認為如果是政府對政府還是最好的方式……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:50.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:51.623000+08:00","text":"一定要政府對政府嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:51.623000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:16:52.624000+08:00","text":"他才有公權力的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:16:52.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:00.531000+08:00","text":"在跟政黨談過任何東西，你跳過政府，跳過中華民國政府，想要來談的話，事實上並不會達到實質上的效果。是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:01.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:02.272000+08:00","text":"所以還是必須政府對政府。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:02.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:09.011000+08:00","text":"那我再問，今年年底要選舉了，這背後有沒有介入選舉的特定目的？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:10.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:11.912000+08:00","text":"這個部分我就沒有辦法去預測，但我覺得最好兩岸之間還是……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:13.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:15.574000+08:00","text":"部長應該不是沒辦法預測，是不方便回答啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:17.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:36.542000+08:00","text":"我認為這個部分大家都看得很清楚，他一定有背後的目的，想影響、想要試圖去干擾，所以我希望就這一塊，政府還是要有更審慎、妥善處理的一些作為，不要因而對整體或政策產生負面上的效果。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:38.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:17:52.311000+08:00","text":"我們這幾年的經濟狀況其實相當好，剛剛提到經濟成長率從去年8.68%，到今年7%，甚至有機會更好，這在臺灣以這樣狀況來說是非常不容易的，包括我們的股市狀況，所以我們現在走在一個正確的道路上。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:17:52.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:16.145000+08:00","text":"我們也認為，剛剛部長也有提到，我們的交流貿易不應該設有任何的政治前提，當設有政治前提、當跳過了政府跟政府間的談判及溝通交流的時候，其實就會出現很多的問題，而且有可能形成單一、片面式的決定，我現在要給就給，我現在要停就停，這對於我們來說是一個非常大的風險，所以才會有所謂「養套殺」這樣的狀況出現。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:16.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:18.166000+08:00","text":"部長應該同意這樣的看法吧？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:18.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:28.833000+08:00","text":"那我再問一下，陸委會說他們掌握了情資，中共動員「以商逼政」，部長，有這樣的狀況嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:28.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:31.476000+08:00","text":"這個部分我就不知道了，陸委會才知道。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:33.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:49.712000+08:00","text":"好，部長應該也有所……我們希望這些都是要審慎、妥善去注意的，我們必須要穩健地讓臺灣走在一條正確的道路上面，應該要想辦法讓國人更加清楚，堅定這樣的道路，這才是一個比較穩確的道路。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:50.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:18:56.096000+08:00","text":"如果是透過政治的手段，或者是有一些政治目的的話，應該讓國人更加清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:18:56.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:09.823000+08:00","text":"對我們政府目前的方向、正確的方向更加有信心，這才是臺灣應該要走向全世界的一條道路，不要受到特意的政黨或特意的政治目的干擾，這反倒會影響臺灣未來長遠的經濟發展，部長應該同意這樣的看法吧？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:09.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:10.823000+08:00","text":"同意、同意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:10.823000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:11.823000+08:00","text":"同意吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:11.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:15.585000+08:00","text":"好，最後時間有限，我問一下，臺北在抱怨耗水費的問題，認為耗水費……全國電網供電是不是很多部分用在臺北，那是不是應該要負擔一些輸電的成本？","quality":0.717},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:35.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:19:53.380000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下這個表，臺北市的發電量2025年是2.9億度，它的用電量是164.1億度，超支了將近161億度這麼多，而這些電都是從其他外縣市送來的，可能是從中部、南部送上來的，所有的過程中都有輸電成本，這個要不要計算進來？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:19:55.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:03.169000+08:00","text":"對，我們當然是希望所有的國人受到的待遇都一樣，儘量不要用區域性來看這個，但是也是希望……","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:04.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:10.892000+08:00","text":"部長，這個耗水費其實是大戶所用的名詞，並不是給他這樣用的，全臺灣也沒有一個水庫在收。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:12.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:18.538000+08:00","text":"對，因為對用水量比較多的大戶，我們當然希望他可以……","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:19.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:23.063000+08:00","text":"這是耗水費的目的，不是給地方政府找個名目來收這個錢嘛！對。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:23.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:32.952000+08:00","text":"更何況臺北市的發電量遠少於他的用電量，在發電量這麼少的狀況下，還想要收這個耗水費，這真的是得了便宜還賣乖啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:32.952000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:33.952000+08:00","text":"而且這個水並沒有浪費掉，只是從壩頂變成在壩的下面……是啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:33.952000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:34.952000+08:00","text":"沒有任何的耗水，哪來耗水費的問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:34.952000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:35.952000+08:00","text":"還是可以使用在自來水的部分。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:34.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:34.614000+08:00","text":"部長覺得這個不合理吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:34.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:35.614000+08:00","text":"所以台電公司為什麼沒有贊成……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:34.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:37.096000+08:00","text":"我另外要問的是對輸電成本的部分要不要計算一下？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:53.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:54.992000+08:00","text":"輸電成本也是台電重大的成本啊！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:55.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:20:59.214000+08:00","text":"光是為了要把電送進去臺北市就花了這麼多錢，這個要不要算一下？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:20:59.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:00.355000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:00.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:02.236000+08:00","text":"部長，這個要計算一下，好不好？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:02.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:22.507000+08:00","text":"你不計算，人家就幫你算了很多，他只算對他有利的，他沒有算到他讓國家為他付出了多少成本，他沒有算到台電、沒有算到經濟部為臺北市付出多少成本，整天在算著這些，已經占了全臺灣這麼多便宜的人還用這樣的角度在思考，我認為是非常缺乏格局也非常缺乏氣度的。嗯。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:25.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:27.440000+08:00","text":"台電能不能計算輸電的成本然後給我？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:28.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:32.785000+08:00","text":"就是台電從中南部或其他縣市送進去所需要的成本，你可不可以在一個禮拜內把這個資料給我？","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:34.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:42.379000+08:00","text":"我們會估計一個數字，但是也跟委員報告，就是我們輸電成本依照現在電價公式是全國平均。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:42.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:21:52.104000+08:00","text":"對，是全國平均，但是如果是在地有你的電廠的話，你當然可以降低成本嘛，電力要從南部、中部送上來，成本絕對是高很多，請把這些成本算給我們。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:21:53.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:22:07.912000+08:00","text":"當首都臺北市的市長這麼缺乏格局而講出這種話的時候，至少我們要告訴他，我們都還沒跟你算你的輸電成本花了這麼多錢，台電為了這些花了多少錢，所以我認為要講出所謂的耗水費的時候，要先來談談這件事情。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:22:08.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:22:23.915000+08:00","text":"再來，關於區別電價的部分，我之前提過很多次了，在去年提過不應該南部發電然後和其他不發電的地方都還是相同的電價，至少對於發電的城市要給予公平合理的對待，就算少一點點，也是一種對發電城市的尊重。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:22:24.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:22:29.216000+08:00","text":"我已經提很久了，部長好像還沒有提出任何的評估報告給我，什麼時候給我？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:22:31.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:22:36.173000+08:00","text":"事實上，我們有在算，他們也有跟我報告了，但是中間還在持續的規劃……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:22:37.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:22:51.608000+08:00","text":"我們看一下區別電價的部分，包括韓國、英國、德國都已經有評估報告出來，韓國是暫緩實施，英國是沒有實施，德國也沒有實施，可是至少人家有一個評估報告出來，部長，多久可以給我評估報告？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:22:51.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:00.470000+08:00","text":"至少要給評估報告，我沒有要求你馬上實施，但是至少給我一個評估報告，我從去年講到現在，從總質詢講到對部門質詢，可是都沒有，什麼時候給我？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:01.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:01.230000+08:00","text":"還要多久？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:02.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:03.211000+08:00","text":"今年做完啦……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:03.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:04.851000+08:00","text":"不能今年，我沒辦法接受這麼久。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:04.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:07.692000+08:00","text":"因為台電公司有一個委託報告……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:07.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:12.033000+08:00","text":"我不認為這個有這麼困難，一個月內可以完成嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:12.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:12.993000+08:00","text":"一個月內給我，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:12.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:16.314000+08:00","text":"是看你們要不要給而已，我不認為你們手上沒有，一個月內給我，好嗎？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:16.314000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:17.906000+08:00","text":"兩個月好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:17.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:19.028000+08:00","text":"好，兩個月給我，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:19.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:25.201000+08:00","text":"我要看到一個評估報告，做不做是另外一回事，但是區別電價的評估報告要出來，因為其他國家都已經有出來了。好。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:25.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:26.083000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:26.583000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:29.725857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝賴瑞隆委員的質詢。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:23:30.025857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:23:33.454429+08:00","text":"接下來有請邱議瑩委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}