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彭部長這位好"},{"start":16.653,"end":45.535,"text":"好部長你每次的口頭還有書面報告其實我都很認真聽這是你第三次使用AI了但你剛有提到說環境部今年也預計要大量使用AI我覺得善用是非常好的而且鼓勵公部門帶頭但是因為我已經看到第三次所以不得不今天要提出來我現在圈起來的請您看一下您自己的報告你自己會看過嗎第二窮國太窮災害的什麼變你看得出來是什麼字嗎"},{"start":46.867,"end":72.291,"text":"抱歉委員這個是我自己親自做的啦那有一些我沒有檢查因為最後是我自己做加進去的可能同仁都沒有看過那我自己代表向你致歉好那你看一下三因為我其實我也很喜歡你做的報告我也想知道你想表達什麼意思但是像三公共設施的什麼入費只有少私投資滴滴你這個你是想要表達民間企業投資的太少是不是"},{"start":73.212,"end":93.749,"text":"調試因為它不像減碳一樣有一個明確的效益特別是碳定價調試沒有調試價所以民間基本上沒有人要投資調試的工作那第四個你說人才留不住官員換住其實基本上這個調試沒有一個專業是做這個事所以我們也沒有一個很好的單位在處理這個事"},{"start":95.322,"end":114.289,"text":"好因為我第三次看你的報告那之前也是你可以回去看那我覺得很重要是因為你們每次的報告都會在放上你們的官網那一般的民眾也會去閱讀所以他會不知道你到底想要表達什麼可是都很精美我是具體建議啦您之後可能也許你就是把它做的稍微簡單一點或是教對"},{"start":116.49,"end":140.102,"text":"因為委員這個是我到昨天晚上自己都還在做我把它修改的那我可能時間來不及我看得出來因為前兩次的我也都有看只是前兩次已經發生過很多次了所以今天就先提醒你禮拜一的時候有個大新聞然後也蠻多人重視我自己也覺得如果你是真的要做的話蠻有感的你有講到說如果通勤然後中間都有綠狼到"},{"start":141.603,"end":160.049,"text":"來做降溫這樣你就從家裡出發到上班地方都可以退燒但是呢今天要講很多人在質疑的一個問題可是你禮拜一這個頭版都做得很大今天的書面報告沒有口頭報告也沒有你說你要提出十年都市零這樣子的願景"},{"start":160.569,"end":186.98,"text":"那我是擔心成為下面公務人員壓力因為看起來沒有法院也沒有預算我很怕又淪為上次你講說偏偏有序號可是到最後經濟部直接說沒有辦法有序號做不到那今天我們就來實際的探討一下如果你要做十年的都市領可能會遇到什麼問題那我也希望可以聽到你初步的解決方法畢竟你八天後是不是要跟國家氣候變遷委員會來提出你的計畫嗎對不對是"},{"start":189.781,"end":211.7,"text":"八天後是是好那我們首先來看一下很多人就在想啊這個東西牽涉的是六都還牽涉了至少六個部會好目前這個是六都他們目前提出的照齡政策那看起來就是欸如果我很在意或者是我預算足夠我就會多做一點所以後面的KPI全部都不一樣欸"},{"start":213.086,"end":227.926,"text":"那現在給補助的是林業署嘛那你之後這個十年都市林你會讓每一個都市有具體一樣的目標嗎包圍了其實第一個是都市林是沒有一個權責單位在負責這些都是地方"},{"start":228.126,"end":255.895,"text":"政府自己拿自己的錢在做所以基本上他們對於樹的了解跟樹的盤查其實整個都不夠所以目前我們早就發現看到這個問題因為我們的林保署是負責森林這個今天你提到的叫都市林那目前的確是沒有一個單位負責這個所有景觀的部分在處理所以為什麼說我們要提出來新的做法不過新的做法我們也要報行政院現在還在這個程序當中我們希望30號以前可以提出一個更完整的一個方案"},{"start":256.175,"end":284.725,"text":"好那我們看一下這張這張就是你剛在講的農業部看起來就是現在主責照領的部會但當然你剛說對於樹的瞭解什麼的農業部我相信他們那邊有人才可以做到你剛講的事情那內政部呢是在做都市規劃決定這個都市裡面綠化的制度那工程會是在講公共工程的植樹專區教育部負責校園裡面的樹那交通部就是你前幾天在新聞講的"},{"start":285.985,"end":301.607,"text":"如果有這個道路的綠廊道等等的跟你新聞的東西有點重複那看起來現在主責是農業部你現在中央到地方每個人都在做不同的事情請問你具體是要怎麼統整起來我們想聽你"},{"start":303.188,"end":328.614,"text":"這個八天後要報告你是要怎麼做統整八天後我們會有端出來啊現在因為我們還在規劃基本上我們還必須要按照一個程序因為這是一個跨部會要中央層級來共同推動的事那未來呢也不排除要有法規還有有專責的組織還有固定的一個預算所以委員還容許給我多一點時間你現在現在我不方便說太多但是我們已經都準備好了你提到的問題我們都講過了"},{"start":330.514,"end":352.619,"text":"好雖然你今天沒有辦法回答但是我只好也跟你講我找到一些資料然後我們還是可以進行一些對話那當然這個是在講說我們比起WHO建議的綠地每個人的平均平方公尺是不足的那有研究發現綠地如果足夠的話幸福感會增加自殺率啊犯罪率等等都會下降嘛那你剛剛有講到說"},{"start":355.861,"end":378.478,"text":"這個其他部會有在主責我也去翻了這個你應該也知道吧農業部他有一個戰略計畫他一路規劃到2050年裡面有一大的部分也在講說他要發展營造都市林他有編預算從2025年一直到2030年每一年都會編將近13億那跟你的這個10年都市林你未來也會想要把它整合在一起嗎"},{"start":379.838,"end":395.809,"text":"不過委員你知道林保署他是負責森林他並沒有特別強化這個都市林因為他們的人力還有預算的限制並沒有包含的都市林那目前都市林的確在所有的政府分工裡面都屬於地方政府在推動的事情"},{"start":397.247,"end":414.185,"text":"我是想講因為你剛已經講到了嘛所以我也想講說我想要給你的建議啦這個以日本為例但你剛也有講到修法的部分日本他就是在1973年的時候正式的成立這個法源依據的都市綠地法所以他是由中央"},{"start":414.665,"end":419.948,"text":"也就是類似您這樣子的角色來制定綠的基本方針然後地方政府去做綠的推廣計畫納入城市規劃的基準所以你看到它左邊的圖它可能有綠的骨幹然後屋頂上的綠化公開綠地等等的全部都畫得非常的詳細"},{"start":431.696,"end":460.375,"text":"那韓國的話他也是給自己設定一個KPI他認為國家做得不夠好可能跟其他紐約啊倫敦比起來他的綠地面積不足所以他希望在2027年把人均的都市森林擴大到15平方米並且跟這個觀光還規劃在一起因為韓國他們重視把影視啊觀光等等然後國際的客人過來全部結合在一起那我也希望這點你要不要納入你八天後的計畫"},{"start":461.115,"end":477.842,"text":"保委員謝謝委員提供幫我們找了那麼多資料那我們其實也都找過那我們也會把這個考慮進去那法規的部分的確我們有在研議然後未來因為這個是一個法規要從原先的沒有一個法規要訂這個的確需要一些時間那我們都有把它放進我們的規劃當中"},{"start":478.962,"end":489.995,"text":"那這個就是我幫您整理出來的你剛剛講到說你會從法規面著手嘛這是第一點第二個就是明確的層級分工因為你剛才提到說地方政府他們不一定對數有這麼大的了解那三我也認為在您上任後呢"},{"start":494.5,"end":518.432,"text":"可以積極的去做資料庫跟身份證的建立畢竟您說要大量運用AI嘛第四 KPI的治理成效這邊就有看到您可能有提到說這個降溫的成效啊但是希望你可以加入強風的防護率等等的因為台灣颱風比較多一點然後還有它的存活率因為現在大家看到這個新聞很多人的重點是著重在綠的覆蓋率因為這個是民眾比較直觀的以上四點給您一些建議好 謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":523.394,"end":548.878,"text":"接下來是產業面比較關心的 所以我會快速問一下國內的碳費今年5月要開始繳納那歐盟也已經要開始實施CBAN了那很多業者啦 他們說最近的這個戰爭讓他們的製造成本大量的提高 尤其是跟石化相關的所以希望政府可以給喘息的機會 延後徵收這一點的話我們想問環境部是朝哪一個方向可以進行我們請我們署長"},{"start":549.518,"end":555.582,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在所有碳費收費對象他要繳的費率跟這個費用其實在法規還有他們的報告都已經都確定了那麼因應這個中東這個國際情勢確實是有少數的這些收費對象來跟我們提出來可不可以有這個暫緩繳交他們按照規定還是要展延這個繳費的期限"},{"start":578.138,"end":600.248,"text":"那我們現在就是有跟這些收費對象講如果是因為中東這個情勢然後配合整個國家的這個相關的這些穩定物價的策略的話他是可以在5月31日前跟你提出申請那你預計讓他們延到什麼時候到今年底今年底再來交就可以現在大概有幾家跟你們提出個位數"},{"start":602.472,"end":606.157,"text":"還沒提喔還沒提因為到五月底對OK好那部長這邊也給您一些建議啦因為歐盟像歐盟他們會希望說當然他們還是要去執行這個攤費可是他們又很怕這個戰爭會讓ETS有很大的一個波動所以他們有具體的給予"},{"start":620.094,"end":642.212,"text":"一個300億歐元的補助去支持歐洲的產業去碳化轉型所以他們並沒有因為戰爭的影響來放棄碳費的制度那另外在日本呢他們是投入了2100億日元的資金協助使用潔淨電力的企業進行投資所以只要你這家企業有提出你都是用潔淨電力的話那你就可以領到這樣子的補助"},{"start":643.032,"end":672.132,"text":"那日本當然是全面有戰略計畫有綠色轉型有數位轉型來推進這個他們日益增長的電力需求那我相信台灣也是面對到一樣的問題所以在這邊呢希望可以跟部長講因為我們現在這個比較破碎一點點我們在補助方面可能太陽能在屋頂上有補助或是有儲能系統補助這不是非常的直接有沒有辦法呢像日本跟歐盟來做一個直接的提供補助這樣子最直接的方式"},{"start":672.792,"end":687.412,"text":"包委員喔這個日本是有收這個地球溫暖化對策稅所以他基本上早就比我們提早很多年然後歐盟有ETS他有一大的Funding在那個地方我們是什麼都沒有所以基本上之後你會有大概5億以內的5億以內的"},{"start":690.416,"end":716.344,"text":"金額可以去做運用你有沒有考慮做這樣子的運用這個在我們的碳費的使用的目標裡面是的確是有把這個放進去但是因為我們的碳費總共加起來那個事情很多然後大家又希望可以從碳費裡面得到一些補助所以基本上還是有限啦那這個部分我們會期待未來跟經濟部來多做一些討論但是基本上碳定價的制度要趕快先行才有可能有這樣的這個制度產生"},{"start":716.544,"end":736.97,"text":"好那這方面一個月跟你要個書面報告你未來預計跟經濟部怎麼合作嗎經濟部現在本身就有類似這樣的已經有一些制度的已經有一些補助了那他們是由他們原來的預算來做進行那我們這邊是針對減碳的部分跟他比較不一樣好那部長我們就期待你八天後給我們的正式報告是是謝謝委員好謝謝好謝謝陳金威委員發言人"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:04.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:06.895000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席、謝謝各位委員還有官員的出席。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:07.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:07.795000+08:00","text":"本席想請彭部長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:07.795000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:10.794000+08:00","text":"請彭部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:10.794000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:13.793000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:13.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:36.310000+08:00","text":"部長，你每次的口頭及書面報告其實我都很認真聽，這是你第三次使用AI了，你剛剛有提到環境部今年也預計要大量使用AI，我覺得善用是非常好的，而且鼓勵公部門帶頭，但是因為我已經看到第三次，所以今天不得不提出來，我現在圈起來的請您看一下，你自己的報告你自己會看過嗎？會。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:36.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:40.273000+08:00","text":"第2，窮國太窮，災害的「？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:41.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:42.535000+08:00","text":"」變，你看得出是什麼字嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:44.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:42:52.035000+08:00","text":"不好意思，委員，這個是我自己親自做的，有一些我沒有檢查到，因為最後是我自己做、加進去的，可能同仁都沒有看過，我自己代表向你致歉，我們會改進。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:42:52.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:01.884000+08:00","text":"好，那你看一下3，其實我也很喜歡你做的報告，我也想知道你想表達什麼意思，但是像3這裡面，公共設施「？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:02.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:09.271000+08:00","text":"」入費，「只有少私投資低低」，你這個是想要表達民間企業投資的太少，是不是？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:10.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:20.220000+08:00","text":"因為調適不像減碳一樣，有一個明確的效益，特別是碳定價，調適沒有調適價，所以民間基本上沒有人要投資調適的工作。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:20.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:23.463000+08:00","text":"第4，你說「人才留不住，官員換住」，這是什麼意思？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:25.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:30.729000+08:00","text":"基本上這個調適，沒有一個專業是做這個事，所以我們也沒有一個很好的單位在處理這個事。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:32.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:35.903000+08:00","text":"好，因為我是第三次看你的報告，之前也是，你可以回去看。好。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:36.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:51.289000+08:00","text":"我覺得很重要的是，因為你們每次的報告都會再放上你們的官網，一般的民眾也會去閱讀，所以他會不知道你到底想要表達什麼，雖然都很精美，我是具體建議，之後也許你就是把它做得稍微簡單一點，或是要校對。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:53.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:43:58.553000+08:00","text":"不好意思，委員，這個是我到昨天晚上自己都還在做、把它修改，可能時間來不及……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:43:58.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:44:06.437000+08:00","text":"我看得出來，因為前兩次的我也都有看，只是前兩次已經發生過很多次，所以今天就先提醒你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:44:06.437000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:44:07.437000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:44:06.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:44:13.801000+08:00","text":"禮拜一的時候有個大新聞，也滿多人重視，我自己也覺得如果你是真的要做的話，滿有感的。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:44:14.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:44:50.114000+08:00","text":"你有講到如果通勤時中間都有綠廊道來降溫，這樣你從家裡出發到上班的地方就都可以退燒，但是今天要講很多人在質疑的一個問題，你禮拜一這個頭版都做得很大，但今天的書面報告沒有，口頭報告也沒有，你說你要提出十年都市林這樣子的願景，我是擔心會成為下面公務人員的壓力，因為看起來沒有法源也沒有預算，我很怕又淪為上次你講說片片有序號，可是到最後經濟部直接說沒有辦法有序號、做不到。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:44:51.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:45:08.463000+08:00","text":"今天我們就來實際的探討一下，如果你要做十年的都市林可能會遇到什麼問題，我也希望可以聽到你初步的解決方法，畢竟你8天後要跟國家氣候變遷委員會提出你的計畫，對不對？是。好。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:45:08.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:45:15.689000+08:00","text":"我們首先來看一下，很多人就在想這個東西牽涉的是六都，還牽涉了至少六個部會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:45:16.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:45:28.700000+08:00","text":"簡報上是六都目前提出的造林政策，看起來就是如果他們很在意或者預算足夠，就會多做一點，所以後面的KPI全部都不一樣。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:45:30.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:45:40.380000+08:00","text":"現在給補助的是林業署，之後這個十年都市林會讓每一個都市有具體一樣的目標嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:45:41.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:46:05.493000+08:00","text":"報告委員，第一個，都市林並沒有一個權責單位在負責，這些都是地方政府自己拿自己的錢在做，所以基本上他們對於樹的了解跟樹的盤查整個都不夠，我們也早就發現、看到這個問題，因為我們林保署是負責森林，今天你提到的是都市林，目前的確沒有一個單位負責所有景觀的部分在處理，這也是為什麼我們要提出來新的做法。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:46:06.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:46:13.175000+08:00","text":"不過我們新的做法也要報行政院，現在還在這個程序當中，我們希望30號以前可以提出一個更完整的方案。好。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:46:13.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:46:48.913000+08:00","text":"我們看一下這張簡報，這張就是你剛剛在講的，農業部看起來就是現在主責造林的部會，你剛剛說對於樹的了解或什麼的，我相信農業部也有人才可以做到你剛剛講的事情；內政部是在做都市規劃，決定都市裡面綠化的制度；工程會是在講公共工程的植樹專區；教育部負責校園裡面的樹；交通部負責的部分就是你前幾天在新聞講的，譬如道路的綠廊道等等，跟你在新聞講的東西有點重複。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:46:49.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:46:58.206000+08:00","text":"看起來目前主責的是農業部，現在從中央到地方，每個人都在做不同的事情，請問你具體要怎麼統整起來？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:46:58.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:02.869000+08:00","text":"你8天後要報告，我們想聽你要怎麼做統整？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:03.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:07.010000+08:00","text":"報告委員，8天後我們會端出來，現在因為我們還在規劃……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:07.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:08.010000+08:00","text":"現在你還不能講？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:07.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:25.594000+08:00","text":"基本上我們還必須要按照程序，因為這是跨部會、要中央層級共同推動的事，未來也不排除要有法規、專責的組織、還有固定的預算，所以請委員容許給我多一點時間，現在我不方便說太多，但是我們已經都準備好了，你提到的問題我們都想過了。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:25.594000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:28.134000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:28.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:34.396000+08:00","text":"雖然你今天沒有辦法回答，但是我只好跟你講，我找到一些資料，我們還是可以進行一些對話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:34.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:41.437000+08:00","text":"當然，比起WHO建議的綠地面積，我們每個人的平均平方公尺是不足的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:42.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:47:48.379000+08:00","text":"有研究發現，綠地如果足夠的話，幸福感會增加，自殺率、犯罪率等等都會下降。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:47:49.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:48:15.478000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講到其他部會有在主責，我也去翻了資料，你應該知道農業部有一個戰略計畫，一路規劃到2050年，裡面有一大部分也在講要發展營造都市林，而且有編預算，從2025年一直到2030年，每一年都會編將近13億，你的十年都市林也會想要把它整合在一起嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:48:17.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:48:32.789000+08:00","text":"是，委員，你知道林保署是負責森林，並沒有特別強化都市林，因為他們的人力及預算的限制，並沒有包含都市林，目前都市林的確在所有的政府分工裡面都屬於地方政府在推動的事情。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:48:35.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:48:39.693000+08:00","text":"因為你剛剛已經講到了，所以我也想提出給你的建議。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:48:41.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:48:56.948000+08:00","text":"你剛剛也有講到修法部分，以日本為例，他在1973年的時候正式制定作為法源依據的都市綠地法，由中央（也就是類似您這樣子的角色）來制定綠的基本方針，由地方政府做綠的推廣計畫，納入城市規劃的基準，所以你可以看到簡報左邊的圖，它可以有綠的骨幹、屋頂上的綠化、公開綠地等等，全部都畫得非常詳細。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:49:09.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:49:37.375000+08:00","text":"韓國則是給自己設定一個KPI，他們認為國家做得不夠好，可能跟紐約、倫敦等等其他城市比起來，他們的綠地面積不足，所以希望在2027年把人均都市森林面積擴大到15平方米，並且跟觀光規劃在一起，因為韓國他們很重視把影視、觀光、吸引國際客人過來等等全部結合在一起，這點你要不要納入8天後的計畫？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:49:38.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:49:44.538000+08:00","text":"報告委員，謝謝委員幫我們找了那麼多資料，我們其實也都找過，也會考慮進去。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:49:44.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:49:54.822000+08:00","text":"法規的部分，的確我們有在研議，但是一個法規要從原先沒有到訂出來，的確需要一些時間，我們都有放進規劃當中。好。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:49:56.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:50:35.092000+08:00","text":"這個簡報就是我幫您整理出來的，您剛剛講到會從法規面著手，這是第一點；第二個就是明確的層級分工，您剛才提到地方政府不一定對樹有這麼了解；第三，我認為在您上任後可以積極地去做資料庫跟身分證的建立，畢竟您說要大量運用AI；第四，KPI的治理成效，您可能有提到降溫的成效，但是希望您可以加入強風的防護率（因為臺灣的颱風比較多一點）及存活率，現在大家看到新聞，很多人的重點是著重在綠的覆蓋率，這是民眾比較直觀的。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:50:35.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:50:35.332000+08:00","text":"以上4點給您一些建議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:50:35.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:50:35.432000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:50:40.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:50:43.177000+08:00","text":"接下來是產業面比較關心的，我會快速問一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:50:43.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:50:48.822000+08:00","text":"國內的碳費今年5月要開始繳納，歐盟也已經要開始實施CBAM了。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:50:49.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:04.917000+08:00","text":"很多業者表示最近的戰爭讓他們的製造成本大量提高，尤其是跟石化相關的，所以希望政府可以給喘息的機會延後徵收，針對這一點，想問環境部是朝哪一個方向進行？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:05.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:05.878000+08:00","text":"請我們署長說明。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:06.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:09.981000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在所有碳費收費對象要繳的費率跟費用，其實在法規及他們的報告都已經確定了。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:10.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:12.502000+08:00","text":"因應中東國際情勢，確實有少數的收費對象跟我們提出來可不可以暫緩繳交，按照規定，他們還是要繳，只是……展延。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:12.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:12.562000+08:00","text":"展延繳費的期限。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:35.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:48.604000+08:00","text":"我們現在也有跟這些收費對象講，如果是因為中東情勢而配合整個國家相關穩定物價策略的話，他們可以在5月31日前跟環境部申請……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:48.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:50.365000+08:00","text":"跟你們提出申請？是。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:50.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:52.005000+08:00","text":"你預計讓他們延到什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:52.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:52.626000+08:00","text":"到今年底。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:53.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:54.907000+08:00","text":"今年底再來繳就可以？是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:55.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:57.087000+08:00","text":"現在大概有幾家跟你們提出？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:57.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:57.248000+08:00","text":"個位數。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:59.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:51:59.572000+08:00","text":"還沒提，因為到5月底。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"蔡署長玲儀","start":"2026-04-22T09:51:59.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:52:00.153000+08:00","text":"還沒提，對。OK。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:52:00.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:52:26.001000+08:00","text":"部長，我也給您一些建議，像歐盟還是要執行碳費，可是他們又很怕這個戰爭會讓ETS有很大的波動，所以他們有具體給予300億歐元的補助，支持歐洲的產業去碳化、轉型，因此他們並沒有因為戰爭的影響而放棄碳費的制度。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:52:26.642000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:52:39.192000+08:00","text":"另外，日本投入2,100億日圓的資金協助使用潔淨電力的企業進行投資，所以只要企業有提出都是用潔淨電力的話，就可以領到這樣的補助。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:52:40.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:52:48.198000+08:00","text":"日本當然是全面有戰略計畫、有綠色轉型、有數位轉型來推進日益增長的電力需求。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:52:48.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:53:09.112000+08:00","text":"我相信臺灣也面對一樣的問題，所以希望可以跟部長講，因為我們現在在這個部分比較破碎一點點，我們在補助方面，可能太陽能板裝在屋頂上有補助或是有儲能系統的補助，都不是非常直接，有沒有辦法像日本跟歐盟一樣直接提供補助，用這樣最直接的方式？","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:53:09.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:53:23.431000+08:00","text":"報告委員，日本有收地球溫暖化對策稅，所以基本上他早就比我們提早很多年，歐盟有ETS，有一個funding在那個地方，我們是什麼都沒有，所以基本上之後……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:53:23.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:53:30.057000+08:00","text":"對，但等到把碳費收進來，會有大概5億以內的金額可以運用，你有沒有考慮做這樣子的運用？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:53:30.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:53:43.341000+08:00","text":"在我們碳費的使用目標裡面的確有把這個放進去，但是因為我們的碳費總共加起來，那個事情很多，然後大家又希望可以從碳費裡面得到一些補助，所以基本上還是有限。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:53:44.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:53:53.324000+08:00","text":"就這個部分，我們期待未來跟經濟部多做一些討論，但是基本上碳定價的制度要趕快先行，才有可能有這樣的制度產生。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:53:53.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:53:58.866000+08:00","text":"好，方便1個月內跟你要個書面報告，了解你們未來預計跟經濟部怎麼合作嗎？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:53:58.866000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:54:09.749000+08:00","text":"現在經濟部本身已經有類似一些補助了，他們是由原來的預算來進行，我們這邊是針對減碳的部分，跟他們比較不一樣。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-04-22T09:54:09.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:54:13.110000+08:00","text":"好，部長，我們就期待你8天後給我們都市林的正式報告，謝謝。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T09:54:13.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:54:13.490000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:54:13.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T09:54:13.930000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳菁徽委員發言。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T09:54:14.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T09:54:17.572857+08:00","text":"接下來請廖偉翔委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}