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:23.122,"text":"好謝謝主席我先請這個環境部彭部長以及我們經濟部能源署的副署長陳副署長請彭部長彭部署長是那個能源署的副署長陳副署長能源署的陳副署長"},{"start":24.025,"end":51.038,"text":"好那我想要先請教一下彭部長跟我們經濟部的代表我們的陳副署長想請問一下我國的綠能目標是2030年達到風電5.7GW光電20GW然後減碳25%到30%那想要請問一下依照現在的目標請問依照之前這樣訂定的部分請問漁電共生的部分是佔多少GW"},{"start":52.094,"end":76.919,"text":"跟委員報告離岸風電的部分2026年的目標是5.3G那太陽光電的部分的話是20G的一個量那因為過去有一些修法的現象我們正在做一些法令的一些明確的部分漁電共生的部分並沒有一個明確的量我查到的資料你們是說有關於漁電共生大概是佔4.4GW請問是嗎"},{"start":80.12,"end":103.852,"text":"漁電共生的部分的話,它分成室內跟戶外型的部分那室內的部分大概是1到2G之間那加上戶外的部分的話,大概也是2G左右對,差不多嘛,就跟我剛剛說的4.4G的話差不多跟我們剛剛報告的是說,4.4G的部分的話是目前大概已經有設置大概15點多還有4.4G的部分,目標還在做處理"},{"start":104.452,"end":122.81,"text":"所以我想要請問一下喔,這個部長,這個目標當時是各部會共同討論出來的對嗎?然後算是由環境部來負責統籌規劃那請問一下部長,你們對於這個2030年的目標能否達標,是不是有信心?還是覺得說現行其他的部會的執行狀況可能根本沒有辦法在2030年達標?"},{"start":124.171,"end":145.16,"text":"的確我們也關注到因為去年太陽能的修法在本委員會我們提出我們準備提一個計畫要來定定多大的量要光電環頻但是直接被很快的被否決所以造成整個太陽光電的發展受到很大的影響我們有注意到這個事實近期的部分我就想要問說這個部分"},{"start":146.661,"end":160.128,"text":"比如說近期媒體報導也有多家的這個德國、西班牙、離岸豐電的公司有撤離台灣那近期還有法國的離岸豐電的這個EDF也宣布終止彰化的案場那另外還有備受爭議的這個晨星集團的漁電共生開發案"},{"start":164.13,"end":189.881,"text":"那公開的資訊也顯示這個晨星的餘電共存規模曾經被報導接近是1.5GW他等於是佔了整體4.4GW的三乘四左右啊對不對那台積電也曾經跟這個晨星集團簽下每年10億度電20年共200億度電的長約所以想要請教一下想請教兩位現在風電光電都出問題呢"},{"start":191.141,"end":215.378,"text":"尤其是這個誠心集團也出了這麼大的問題那是不是短期內不可能補足這個缺口那請問2030年的目標有沒有要下修跟委員報告剛剛委員提到兩個問題一個是離岸風電業者的部分因為他的一些外在的一些環境有一些變化所以你回答我這個目標有沒有要下修目前目標我們會努力來達成會下修嗎不會"},{"start":216.478,"end":229.902,"text":"不會下修所以你覺得還是會達成就對了法規明確化以後讓業者能夠來處理那我想要請教一下我們的副署長那你們知道這個誠心集團過去有任何超過120MW的大型案場的開發時機嗎"},{"start":232.571,"end":233.511,"text":"跟委呃委員報告呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃呃"},{"start":250.407,"end":265.699,"text":"那說實在的等於就是他沒有單一暗廠有這麼大的時機 對吧那我就想要請問一下這樣子的單一廠商可以佔據三成四的這個餘電共生的發電量難道你們不會覺得很奇怪嗎"},{"start":266.567,"end":285.497,"text":"跟委員報告那個別的業者的部分他在做一些暗場的一些規劃的過程當中他是會用個別的一個公司來做處理那剛委員提到所以這家個別公司主要是因為那我在那我在請教因為剛我已經講就沒有了你後面的解釋都沒有回答我的問題"},{"start":286.457,"end":303.352,"text":"再請教那原定的這個4.4GW也就是全年的53.9億度電的目標誠心暗示目前光電占比最重要的類別想要請教一下它實際併網量是多少那換算成年度發電量又是多少度"},{"start":304.349,"end":327.023,"text":"那是不是也可能代表這個的案場如果沒有的話你們確定可以應該就是確定跳票吧20%的部分跟委員報告剛委員的簡報很清楚4.4Gbps的部分是目前的缺口太陽光電已經做15Gbps多左右4.44Gbps目前缺口魚電魚電的部分目前大概是1到2Gbps的部分"},{"start":327.543,"end":335.69,"text":"各別業者正在做一些農業相關的一些容許使用的一些規劃以目前來看所以這個案場他如果跳票的話你們是不是達不到目標"},{"start":336.765,"end":361.553,"text":"呃 達不到目標 不過就是會用對嘛 你說達不到目標嘛 對不對會用一些屋頂型的暗場那 我是針對這個暗場因為它佔的量體很大那它現在跳票 你等於就是跳票嘛你剛才也說會跳票嘛 對不對那我想要請教一下那這五大台灣最大型的漁電共生的暗場目前大約有三百個案子的暗場目前你們達到你們綠能二階容許也就是放養七成的這個養殖達標的暗場有幾個"},{"start":364.028,"end":380.517,"text":"跟委員說明就以個別在螢幕上這個案場來看這個120Mbps他已經符合相關的規定不過有一些案場下面的一些案場他還在做一些農業容許的一些相關的審核部分我是想問說你們放養七成的這個標準你的養殖達標的案場有幾個有幾個"},{"start":382.23,"end":400.281,"text":"目前大概有個別的案場如果以第一型來看的話只有一個是不符合相關的一些規定被聯約署來做廢照的動作其他部分的話比較小型第三型案場相對就比較少一點可是我根據上下游新聞在2025年的6月的報導看起來好像"},{"start":401.314,"end":430.752,"text":"真正符合的好像也只有一個沒有啦七成的部分個別的案場因為他有一些符合案子那媒體報導是針對一些審計單位他認為不符合的一些現象有一些處理好第一個你剛剛說基本上這個這個誠心集團的如果跳票就是你們就是目標會跳票嘛所以我想要講的是綠能不只是環境問題其實他也是貿易競爭力對不對所以政府推動能源轉型其實核心在於支撐"},{"start":431.452,"end":449.265,"text":"很多半導體業的RA100的需求跟符合國際的碳邊境調整機制CBAN的部分那誠心跟台積電有200億度綠電的合約也是在支撐台灣出口競爭力的重要支柱那原訂這個案件2025年就在你們的達標範圍這也攸關你們20%的綠能有沒有辦法達標嘛 對不對那你們今年也承諾綠能20%的進度會在今年"},{"start":459.873,"end":480.527,"text":"11月達標所以目前依照你們的估計這些五大案場最快什麼時候可以上線跟委員報告就是說以目前國內的企業需要綠電的部分他除了這個漁電工生以外他還有一些離岸風電的風場這我都知道我現在就是在跟你討論這個漁電工生好不好你這個漁電工生現在這個你剛剛也說這個會跳票嘛這個如果沒辦法順利完成的話"},{"start":484.13,"end":488.596,"text":"所以我現在問的問題就是依照現在的這個狀況那你們本來說綠能20%的進度今年11月打標想要問一下依照現在的發生的狀況你們估計這五大案場什麼時候可以上線然後剛剛你已經說可能不會打標是嗎"},{"start":501.072,"end":520.312,"text":"應該是這麼說 跟委員報告這個五個案場目前正在做一些綠能容許的一些程序那時間點要跟地方政府來做一些養殖方面的一些規劃所以我說預計你們大概什麼時候上線目標的部分的話會由其他的屋頂型的案場來做彌補所以還是會希望能夠達到20G的目標"},{"start":521.793,"end":540.768,"text":"所以你說這個案子就算沒有辦法順利,你們還是可以達標囉?你確定可以達標嗎?我們會以這個目標為主,但是我說你們覺得可以嗎?我們會以20GB的目標來做處理,不過剛談的,因為有一些法令的改變,我們要去把這些法令的改變來做一些處理。"},{"start":541.969,"end":562.898,"text":"我要跟你說這個案場其實剛剛我講的誠心集團這個案場它其實涉及了數十個銀行的聯合貸款底下還有無數的小企業據傳欠款高達十億元甚至已經算入你們的國家能源政策比重裡面的重要一環結果你剛剛有點說我會用光電其他的光電來彌補問題是這個案場"},{"start":565.379,"end":574.287,"text":"最重要的是也已經開發了那所以導致現在我想要問的事情就是說那這個到底可不可以完成你這個案場它現在的狀況可不可以完成"},{"start":575.083,"end":595.214,"text":"跟我們比較關心的是這個案場什麼時間完成那這個案場主要就是卡在一些所謂的農業容許使用的一些程序的部分他現在做一些改善所以他可以因為我其實關心的不是這個單一案場我關心的事情是你到底可不可以達標我用這個案場來比喻因為他的量體是很大的"},{"start":595.914,"end":606.281,"text":"所以我想要講的事情是很奇怪的是2022年的晨星集團發新聞稿說他幫旗下這個新核能源完成了56.4億的連帶案但是在2026年的時候卻發文表示說"},{"start":611.604,"end":624.892,"text":"這誠心綠能從未承接新和能源的業務新和能源案場的現況進度財務糾紛都跟這個公司沒有就都沒有關係請問一下你們有掌握這樣的狀況嗎那他背後的權責是否會釐清會不會影響到我們所謂的這個綠能發展的進度"},{"start":631.235,"end":658.904,"text":"跟委員報告個別的案場他的一些內部的一些財務的狀況這個我們大概不再做了解那以這個案場的部分我們有去了解邀請的所有這些所謂的連帶銀行相關的業者去了解他們對這個案場的一些相關的進度那怎麼樣讓他包含這個銀行端的部分包含這種所謂的下游端的一些承包業者的一些部分怎麼樣來儘速拿到相關的資金這部分有在處理當中"},{"start":659.364,"end":678.661,"text":"在處理當中所以他會有問題嗎?不知道這個要看後續你沒有在掌握我們在持續掌握這個個別案場的部分不過要了解他未來在做所謂的容許養殖的相關的進度好那請農業部的代表好不好我請一下農業部資源永續利用時的代理司長"},{"start":686.198,"end":709.347,"text":"黃市長對我們一起一起回答看是屬於屬於誰可以理解的因為我請你上來那我還是要問一下這個經濟部在去年的2025年3月的時候有同意室內型的餘電得回歸農政的法規必須取得二階綠能容許才能與台電並往對吧那然後過去已經並聯發電上百件的"},{"start":711.468,"end":723.518,"text":"面積數百公頃的漁電案場你們回頭的核查率是多少那目前上百件的面積數百公頃的漁電案場會不會有漏網之魚卻沒有人負責"},{"start":725.555,"end":752.879,"text":"好 那會長會員那基本上餘電公升的查核目前298場的部分大概查核的部分大概250多場的部分其中大概廢止的部分35場的容許那其餘的部分基本上有些是正在包含也許會改善的部分以及查核通過的部分那大致上"},{"start":753.859,"end":774.568,"text":"都符合一些規定不過就是說有一些需要是因為現場可能一些所以是多少具體的數字你知道嗎實際它大概八成多八塊將近九成多的部分對那其他部分是地方還有一些要再做確認的部分我想要請問一下這個今年的時候三月你們的態度官方的態度也大幅的轉變所以轉往魚歸魚電歸電的政策方向"},{"start":777.639,"end":783.003,"text":"那這個官方證實漁電共生的新制草案卻由漁業署能源署光電工協會研擬中且也有與養殖團體討論那新制的草案呢這個改採漁業經營跟光電經營分離請問然後光電業者只要依規範設置即可不再複製"},{"start":800.918,"end":828.059,"text":"養殖經營責任即可取得發電收益以上敘述是否正確?那我剛剛討論到這個新的這個樣的案場也會這樣處理嗎?跟委員報告我想先澄清一下我想餘電共生基本上還是以餘熱本養殖的為本然後預能加值的部分這個原則是都沒有變的那我們強調的是還是餘電做所謂的專業分工那養殖還餘電共生還是必須要有所謂的相關的養殖經營的一個事實的部分"},{"start":828.539,"end":843.767,"text":"那專業分工就是說它基本上設置太陽光電的部分是能夠對我們養殖的相關產業能夠轉型提升的所以這並沒有所謂說今天就放棄養殖這個部分是要澄清外界可能比較對這一部分做有所得如果這個養殖經營跟投資跟這個風險如果落在這個漁業署養鞋或者漁卿或者養殖戶的身上"},{"start":849.87,"end":864.085,"text":"那我來想問的事情是說那大家都知道種電的利益大那養殖的利益小這樣會不會導致這個法規不明確的情況之下會讓這些養殖的面積不停的萎縮然後會不會發生這件事情你可以保證不會嗎"},{"start":865.246,"end":884.919,"text":"我想應該不會的啦那我們有強調是綠能是來加值產業的轉型升級那基本上我們還是要確保它實際有養殖的這件事情那所以我們就要把之前有一些可能設置光電業者以所謂光電極大化的部分去做一個所謂的合理的設置配置讓我們的養殖產業還是能夠持續的"},{"start":885.219,"end":904.043,"text":"好我要跟你們說其實我們支持這樣子的能源轉型要發展的好可是絕對不支持毀農滅魚的假轉型好所以不要為了保住你們的所謂的病亡的目標然後就犧牲法治或者是農地的一個公道好不好這不會好謝謝好謝謝廖偉祥委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}