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代理主委我先請教因為本期一個禮拜前也利用總質詢時間請教卓榮泰院長說我們NCC委員還有三位目前可能7月31號就到期那依法令規定是三個月前要提出相關的名單送立法院來做審議那卓榮泰院長他當時跟我講法是說他要盡力找人但沒有十足把握但實際上來講只剩一個多禮拜就4月30號了"},{"start":44.409,"end":56.844,"text":"那我還是一樣老問題啊我不知道說您現在代理主委當然現在委員人數不足你們也有一些業務沒有辦法推動那更重要的是卓榮泰院長在這段時間有沒有請教過您的建議報告委員目前沒有"},{"start":58.227,"end":81.87,"text":"目前沒有也沒有所以卓榮泰院長他的心態現在是怎麼樣我沒有辦法想像了就是說立法院行政院大家國事如麻但是該做的事情應該要做獨立機關已經過去人選出來我們也講了只要好的人選立法院不會刻意的阻撓但是我們希望你真的是能夠提出優質的人選"},{"start":83.086,"end":98.032,"text":"那半年過去了上一次NCC四位委員是在去年11月投完票那現在半年過去了到目前為止人選還沒有出來那如果說在一個禮拜之後還是沒有人選出來那這到底帳要算誰的"},{"start":98.872,"end":126.406,"text":"你人選沒有出來立法院就沒有辦法審查我相信召委不管是藍營召委綠營召委大家都一定會馬上來做排案就如同我們預算附委之後馬上來做預算的一個解凍或是審查這個本來就是立法院的權責那但是如果行政院連名單都不送出來立法院要怎麼辦代理主委這個問題大家都很關注是啊我關注你關注但是就感覺只有卓榮燈院長他"},{"start":128.7,"end":145.446,"text":"沒有很重視的感覺啊不然的話他問一下請你去聊一下問一下說到底現在N4業業務怎麼樣然後如果說有沒有人選你有沒有具體的建議專業建議甚至代理主委問說你願不願意徵廚也沒有"},{"start":148.963,"end":173.699,"text":"我相信到月底還有一段時間應該行政院應該會 八天我們就等著看因為我不為難你 因為這不是你的全責可是我只想是說再一次點出這個問題想要請教的是到底民進黨政府現在有沒有把國人心心念念放的優先順位先擺出來還是什麼事情都可以推中共打壓NCC提名人士應該不是中共打壓吧也不應該吧"},{"start":177.882,"end":195.681,"text":"來吧我們來討論一下因為今天我覺得這個新鏈的議題防衛韌性或是我們的這個通訊數位韌性非常重要本席也很關注那我們也看到了就是說速發部有相關的意見但速發部的意見我剛剛看了一下那個說明比較像是說還要再做研議"},{"start":196.542,"end":216.239,"text":"沒有絕對支持也沒有絕對反對因為現在主要卡到幾個點嘛第一是說我們國內的36條有規定是說不能超過外資不能超過50%那法定就框住了但一樣的道理看看日本跟韓國我覺得日本韓國是可以做比較的為什麼因為第一離我們近第二產業相對"},{"start":218.689,"end":244.294,"text":"相近還有說實在話他們是我們也是算競爭的夥伴嘛所以人家有往前超前了那我們也應該要迎頭趕上先說台灣的4G 5G的普及率高所以好像星鏈對我們這個市場沒有那麼的重視但我查了一下資料當然這資料可能各國政府他不同的數據判斷那我查了以"},{"start":245.97,"end":264.179,"text":"人手一機的普及率來講手機上網普及率台灣佔87%到90%左右日本佔90%以上韓國更高但95%到98%所以換言之韓國日本其實以人手一機手機上網的普及率其實還比台灣高"},{"start":265.539,"end":283.051,"text":"這是一個數據那另外第二個部分是說我們想要請教到底低軌衛星對於日本也好韓國也好他們現在正在推行那有沒有增加他們防衛性那他們怎麼做能夠避免被詐騙集團濫用利用這有沒有去做了解"},{"start":283.351,"end":310.327,"text":"是有跟委員報告都是幾個重點第一個日本韓國他們可以做到處理其實就是因為他們有一些籌碼上跟對方在做一些折衷你只是說這個訓練對韓國是因為跟美方有簽FTA所以他的外資條款可以豁免可以排除試用那日本的話他是因為斯大林在日本有多位有在當地落地"},{"start":311.007,"end":325.163,"text":"那以目前的情況如果我們信用條款如果直接沒有修改的話其實Starlink願意配合的話都可以做因為既有的已經來落地的OneWeb也好其實都已經這麼做了那以"},{"start":325.964,"end":347.161,"text":"Starlink最近新的第二代的它的Starlink第二代它是可以做那Inter-Satellite Link就是衛星間直接丟那個中間信號的這一塊對未來的產業的發展衝擊是比較可怕為什麼因為最近Starlink取得52項的專利它可以在"},{"start":348.522,"end":364.172,"text":"改變這個Tracking Area Code的這種情況之下他可以以後目前手機支聯Starlink大概只能傳Text都傳文件然後簡訊而已未來他傳影音傳影像大概就相對沒問題是就等於是網速更快對"},{"start":365.293,"end":381.572,"text":"那某種程度的話它可以立刻取代掉所有地面的一些行動業者所以這個對產業的衝擊很大那業主是一個部分一定要有本國業主的角色主委你剛剛沒有聽本席的問題本席問A你答A啦我先說因為我也看到說本"},{"start":382.193,"end":404.435,"text":"你講的我們也都理解就是說他等於是互相競爭嘛本國業者譬如說三家業者他們是要設基地台那如果說今天STARLINK來他不用設基地台那他也一樣的網速的話那可能很多人就會選擇因為他不用基地台他就變成是說他涵蓋面比較廣如果說一些譬如說山區海邊原本他基地台比較少的地方他的收訊比較弱"},{"start":405.256,"end":420.732,"text":"那可能那些民眾他就會被STARLINK吸引走但這都還不是本席的問題因為那個是市場公平競爭的機制但本席看到的是我不要說因為我們放寬了STARLINK進來之後發生說有業者現在宣稱可能"},{"start":422.352,"end":449.242,"text":"詐騙集團可能這些非法的集團他會利用Starlink這樣的衛星然後本國沒有辦法去追蹤所以我現在想問的是日本政府跟韓國政府怎麼樣解決這個問題對就是我剛才還沒來得及跟文回答就第二部分是日本怎麼處理呢因為他街會在日本落地所以他在這個通訊監察就是英文叫lover intersection的部分他可以實質從physical layer就已經掌握了"},{"start":449.842,"end":477.234,"text":"那韓國他也在洽談而且韓國是有本國業者參與所以在這國家安全通信監察治安防護防打炸等等他是有一定的掌握度那如果如果說我們這邊如果在本國參與跟涉基類這兩個部分我們都沒有辦法掌握沒有辦法在台灣實現的話其實這個是相當危險的所以以主管機關的立場當然束發部還沒有表達意見林部長我看你後面一直在微笑"},{"start":478.234,"end":499.167,"text":"代理主委你現在講法就這個也是本期我們認為未來在修法的時候一個很重要的一句真參考如果說你剛剛講這兩個先決條件都沒有辦法做到的話換言之開放STARLINK來台灣會容易就變成是說他內容是什麼通訊是什麼我們沒有辦法有任何地步的掌握有掌握但是就會像"},{"start":500.268,"end":517.767,"text":"譬如說我們過去的一個狀況譬如說社群媒體平台它沒有在台灣設落地那也因此它在社群媒體平台上面的一個詐騙廣告或我們第一時間沒有辦法那當然後續我們因為通過相關法令我們要求社群媒體平台它自律也好或是說他們做相關的規範才有做"},{"start":519.448,"end":541.306,"text":"規範所以變成未來如果說這樣的話有可能是需要依賴企業自律而不是我們政府公權力站在地線是這樣嗎我先講一下重點存外商沒有本國業的參與的話在打仗在治安上的效率速度上大概會存在一個會比較隱密這是第一個另外一個就是剛剛提到的數據主權問題"},{"start":543.307,"end":555.314,"text":"在歐洲國家特別西歐很多外資筆記都完全放掉了可是他還是要求他的要那個STAR LINK要在當地設定位那我們在做相關修法的時候能不能堅持跟要求這一塊"},{"start":555.819,"end":577.666,"text":"其實最簡單 現行的條款都可以達到因為現行條款是制度上 先天上就是國安到位 by design就已經放在那邊了當然如果說我們國家安全需要的話其實可以分階段to B to government to G可以先做只是目前對方比較沒有意願因為to C他自己講說他會覺得是說如果要開放就要全部開放嘛"},{"start":578.626,"end":600.119,"text":"所以說某種程度上這就是永遠都是角力但本席還是強調的是站在我們台灣兩千三百五十萬人的第一主權還有安全以及任性上面我們做一個綜合最有利的選擇好這個部分是未來修法的時候進入到主條我們會再討論但我最後一分鐘我要再請教一下那日本我們現在看到有兩個做法"},{"start":601.32,"end":617.654,"text":"大家媒體也看到第一 日本去年他們政府部門宣布說他們也要不要把權力或說技術全部掌握在STARLINK上所以他們投入了1500億我不知道日幣或是台幣這個幣值我沒有見過但1500億要打造日本的新鏈"},{"start":619.926,"end":636.927,"text":"這個新聞有看到吧所以換言之有可能如果說他們現在投入打造日本的芯鏈的這個技術未來有可能變成是說不會是全球獨家只有芯鏈這個公司那麼的成熟也許日本也有他們的獨家技術我們變成是說有多元管道也可以"},{"start":638.195,"end":662.55,"text":"採用另外第二個是日本他們現在宣布說2027年他們駐外使節管等於是外管先採取使用新鏈尤其是在比較容易發生天災或是比較容易有戰爭的國家他們的駐外管是用新鏈的系統來去做這個通訊避免日本國人在那個國家裡面失去"},{"start":664.731,"end":675.522,"text":"聯繫發生重要事業聯繫那我覺得這東西就可以思考一下這當然可能要跟外交部一起來討論可是如果說連日本他們都已經想到是說我們也許台灣"},{"start":676.431,"end":695.553,"text":"我們本土境內沒辦法但是至少我們的外管尤其像一些我們的友邦是不是能夠那裡的駐外單位他們也可以來使用新鏈這樣的一個通訊技術未來可以跟我們國內的這個暢通管道更無虞因為我們有些友邦的基礎建設真的沒那麼好"},{"start":696.081,"end":718.86,"text":"這可不可以研究一下其實我也能講到重點 剛剛日本舉的例子日本本身也要發展自己的衛星產業所以在台灣如果地基業者有角色的話這一部分台灣的衛星發展才不會說完全被Bypass所以那兩個 另外第二個部分可能就跟外交部也比較相關那束發部長"},{"start":719.963,"end":734.953,"text":"能不能提一下那這樣子本期這樣的一個建議是不是能夠找外交部來討論看看有沒有需要來去做一個更強化至少我們國外的單位回來台灣的這個通訊以及我們在那邊的國人的通訊能夠有一些保障"},{"start":735.58,"end":753.04,"text":"是委員這個提議非常好那我們會跟外交部那邊去做建議不過這個事情因為第一個是外交這個牽涉到那個機密的事情可能就是說數八部沒辦法直接去做必須由外交部去做另外一個是說因為如果在一個那個譬如說是"},{"start":754.802,"end":773.316,"text":"非洲的哪一個國家 那那個必須當 接受當地法律的規定這個就不是我們 那個NCC跟蘇澳盟 參考一下日本的因為日本現在已經做了 他們宣布2027年 他們全球的駐外使節單位都會用衛星通訊來跟他們國內保持原本就已經有的通訊 他們維持"},{"start":774.417,"end":788.199,"text":"但是他們多增加新鏈這樣的技術來確保真的發生天災或是戰亂的時候他們的國人還是可以跟日本政府來做取得聯繫好不好 我們參考一下是 謝謝委員的提醒跟支持 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:21.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:09:22.356000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:22.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:09:26.226000+08:00","text":"麻煩請NCC代理主委及數發部林部長。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:26.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:09:27.489000+08:00","text":"請代理主委跟林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:27.489000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:09:32.332000+08:00","text":"洪委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:32.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:09:51.283000+08:00","text":"代理主委，我先請教，本席一個禮拜前也利用總質詢時間請教卓榮泰院長，目前NCC委員還有3位可能在7月31日就到期，依法令規定是3個月前要提出名單送立法院審議。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:51.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:09:56.146000+08:00","text":"卓榮泰院長當時給我的講法，是說他要盡力找人，但沒有十足把握。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:09:56.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:12.122000+08:00","text":"但實際上來講只剩一個多禮拜就4月30日了，我還是一樣的老問題，您現在當代理主委，當然委員人數不足，你們也有一些業務沒有辦法推動，更重要的是，卓榮泰院長在這段時間，有沒有請教過您的建議？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:12.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:13.824000+08:00","text":"報告委員，目前沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:15.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:16.288000+08:00","text":"也沒有？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:17.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:20.893000+08:00","text":"所以卓榮泰院長的心態現在是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:20.893000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:21.774000+08:00","text":"我沒有辦法想像！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:22.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:27.780000+08:00","text":"立法院、行政院都是國事如麻，但是該做的事情就應該要做。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:30.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:38.870000+08:00","text":"過去我們也講了，只要是好的人選，立法院不會刻意阻撓，但是我們希望真的能夠提出優質的人選。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:42.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:10:55.012000+08:00","text":"上一次NCC四位委員是在去年11月投完票，現在半年過去了，到目前為止人選還沒有出來，如果在一個禮拜之後，還是沒有人選出來，到底帳要算誰的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:10:56.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:08.638000+08:00","text":"人選沒有出來，立法院就沒有辦法審查，我相信不管是藍營召委、綠營召委，大家都一定會馬上排案，就如同預算付委之後，我們馬上做預算的解凍或是審查。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:09.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:16.822000+08:00","text":"這個本來就是立法院的權責，但是如果行政院連名單都不送出來，立法院要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:16.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:17.122000+08:00","text":"代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:18.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:20.064000+08:00","text":"這個問題大家都很關注……是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:20.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:26.640000+08:00","text":"我關注、你關注，但感覺就只有卓榮泰院長沒有很重視。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:28.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:36.244000+08:00","text":"不然他請你去聊一下、問一下，到底現在NCC的業務怎麼樣？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:37.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:40.165000+08:00","text":"有沒有人選，你有沒有具體建議、專業建議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:40.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:41.946000+08:00","text":"甚至問代理主委，你願不願意真除？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:42.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:42.426000+08:00","text":"也沒有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:45.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:49.786000+08:00","text":"我相信到月底還有一段時間，行政院應該會處理。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:49.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:11:54.408000+08:00","text":"八天，我們就等著看，我不為難你，因為這不是你的權責。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:11:54.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:12:05.515000+08:00","text":"我只是再一次點出這個問題，想要請教到底民進黨政府現在有沒有把國人心心念念的優先順位先擺出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:12:05.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:12:10.499000+08:00","text":"還是什麼事情都可以推中共打壓，NCC提名應該不是中共打壓吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:12:10.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:12:10.679000+08:00","text":"也不應該吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:12:16.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:12:25.253000+08:00","text":"我們來討論一下，因為我覺得今天星鏈的議題、防衛韌性或是通訊數位韌性非常重要，本席也很關注。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:12:26.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:12:35.864000+08:00","text":"我們也看到了數發部相關的意見，但我剛剛看了一下數發部的意見說明，比較像是還要再研議，沒有絕對支持，也沒有絕對反對。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:12:35.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:13:03.530000+08:00","text":"因為現在主要卡到幾個點：第一是，國內條文第三十六條有規定外資不能超過50%，所以法定就框住了，但一樣的道理看看日本跟韓國，我覺得日本、韓國是可以比較的，因為第一離我們近，第二產業相對相近，還有說實在話，他們也算是我們的競爭夥伴，所以人家有往前超前了，我們也應該要迎頭趕上。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:13:06.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:13:35.756000+08:00","text":"臺灣4G、5G的普及率高，星鏈好像對我們這個市場沒有那麼重視，但我查了一下資料，當然各國政府可能有不同的數據判斷，以人手一機的普及率來講，手機上網普及率，臺灣占87%到90%左右，日本占90%以上，韓國更高，占95%到98%。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:13:35.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:13:43.700000+08:00","text":"所以換言之，韓國、日本以人手一機的手機上網普及率，其實還比臺灣高，這是一個數據。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:13:43.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:13:53.026000+08:00","text":"另外第二個部分，我們想要請教到底低軌衛星對於日本也好、韓國也好，現在正在推行，有沒有增加他們的防衛韌性？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:13:53.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:14:00.031000+08:00","text":"他們怎麼能夠避免被詐騙集團濫用、利用，這部分有沒有去了解？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:14:00.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:14:12.878000+08:00","text":"是，有，跟委員報告，這有幾個重點，第一個，日本、韓國可以處理，其實就是因為在籌碼上有跟對方做一些折衷……","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:14:13.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:14:17.721000+08:00","text":"你指的是星鏈？對。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:14:17.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:14:35.856000+08:00","text":"具體而言，韓國是因為跟美方有簽FTA，所以他的外資條款可以豁免、可以排除適用；日本是因為Starlink有gateway在當地落地。","quality":0.705},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:14:36.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:14:41.082000+08:00","text":"以目前的情況來講，如果現行條款沒有直接修改，而Starlink也願意配合的話，都可以做，因為既有且已經落地的OneWeb都已經這麼做了。","quality":0.508},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:14:42.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:00.418000+08:00","text":"最新的第二代Starlink是可以做inter-satellite link，就是衛星間直接丟中繼訊號，這一塊對未來產業發展的衝擊是比較可怕，為什麼？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:00.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:19.711000+08:00","text":"因為最近Starlink取得52項專利，在改變Tracking Area Code的情況之下，以目前手機支援Starlink大概只能傳text，都只能傳文件、簡訊而已，未來傳影音、影像大概也就相對沒問題……","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:19.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:21.152000+08:00","text":"是，就等於是網速更快。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:21.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:28.320000+08:00","text":"對，某種程度上，它可以立刻取代掉所有地面的一些行動業者，所以這個對產業的衝擊很大，那要如何處理……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:28.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:29.482000+08:00","text":"是，產業衝擊是一個部分，但是……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:30.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:31.584000+08:00","text":"一定要有本國業者的角色。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:31.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:36.370000+08:00","text":"主委，你剛剛沒有聽本席的問題，本席問A，你答A啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:39.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:15:42.276000+08:00","text":"你講的，我們也都理解，就是他們等於是互相競爭嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:15:42.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:16:04.639000+08:00","text":"譬如有三家本國業者要設基地臺，如果今天Starlink來，他不用設基地臺也有一樣的網速，可能很多人就會選擇他，因為他不用基地臺，變成是他的涵蓋面比較廣，一些如山區、海邊等原本基地臺比較少的地方，收訊比較弱，可能那些民眾就會被Starlink吸引走。","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:16:04.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:16:31.417000+08:00","text":"但這都還不是本席的問題，因為這個是市場公平競爭的機制，本席看到的是，不要因為我們放寬了Starlink進來之後，發生現在有業者宣稱詐騙集團等非法集團可能會利用Starlink這樣的衛星，讓本國沒有辦法追蹤，所以我現在想問的是，日本政府跟韓國政府怎麼樣解決這個問題？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:16:31.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:16:46.222000+08:00","text":"對，這就是我剛剛還沒來得及跟委員回答的，第二部分是日本怎麼處理，因為他的gateway在日本落地，通訊監察英文叫做lawful interception，LI的部分可以實質從physical layer就已經掌握了。","quality":0.77},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:16:47.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:16:57.186000+08:00","text":"韓國也在洽談，而且韓國是由本國業者參與，所以在國家安全、通訊監察、資安防護、防打詐等等，他持有一定的掌握度。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:17:00.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:17:07.591000+08:00","text":"在本國參與跟設gateway這兩個部分，如果我們都沒有辦法掌握、沒有辦法在臺灣實踐的話，其實是相當危險的。","quality":0.776},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:17:08.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:17:14.214000+08:00","text":"OK，好，所以以主管機關的立場……當然數發部還沒有表達意見，林部長，我看你在後面一直在微笑。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:17:15.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:17:31.985000+08:00","text":"代理主委現在的講法，也是本席認為在未來修法時很重要的依據跟參考，如果你剛剛講的這兩個先決條件都沒有辦法做到的話，換言之，開放Starlink來臺灣，就容易變成我們沒有辦法第一步掌握他的內容是什麼、通訊是什麼，那就……","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:17:34.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:17:35.127000+08:00","text":"有掌握，但是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:17:35.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:18:04.735000+08:00","text":"就會像過去的狀況，譬如社群媒體平臺沒有在臺灣設落地，因此在社群媒體平臺上面的詐騙廣告，我們第一時間沒有辦法……當然後續因為通過相關法令，我們要求社群媒體平臺自律，或他們做相關的規範，所以未來如果變成這樣的話，有可能是需要依賴企業自律，而不是政府公權力站在第一線，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:18:05.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:18:17.005000+08:00","text":"委員講到重點了，純外商、沒有本國業者參與的話，在打詐、在資安上的防護、效率、速度方面，大概會比較有疑慮，這是第一個。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:18:17.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:18:28.832000+08:00","text":"另外一個就是剛剛提到的數據主權問題，在歐洲國家，特別是西歐，很多把外資比例都完全放掉了，可是還是要求Starlink要在當地設立gateway。","quality":0.716},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:18:28.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:18:32.314000+08:00","text":"我們在做相關修法的時候，能不能堅持跟要求這一塊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:18:32.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:18:52.265000+08:00","text":"其實最簡單的，現行條款就可以達到，因為現行條款是制度上、先天上，就是國安到位by design就已經放在那邊了，當然，如果我們國家安全需要的話，其實可以分階段，to B、to government、to G可以先做，只是目前對方比較沒有意願，因為to C他自己講說……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:18:52.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:18:54.646000+08:00","text":"他會覺得如果要開放就全部開放嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:18:56.187000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:19:08.794000+08:00","text":"某種程度上，永遠都是角力，但本席還是強調，站在臺灣2,350萬人的立場，第一、主權，還有安全以及韌性上面，我們綜合並做最有利的選擇。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:19:09.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:19:12.717000+08:00","text":"這一個部分未來修法進入到逐條時，我們會來討論。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:19:13.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:19:31.231000+08:00","text":"最後我再請教一下，現在看到日本有兩個做法，大家在媒體也看到，第一，去年日本政府部門宣布不要把權力或技術全部掌握在Starlink上，所以他們投入了1,500億，我不知道是日幣或是臺幣？","quality":0.827},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:19:31.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:19:37.607000+08:00","text":"這個幣值我沒有記得很清楚，1,500億要打造日本的星鏈，這個新聞有看到吧？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:19:39.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:19:55.195000+08:00","text":"換言之，如果他們現在投入打造日本的星鏈技術，未來可能不會全球獨家只有星鏈這個公司那麼成熟，也許日本也有他們的獨家技術，我們變成有多元管道可以採用。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:19:56.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:20:21.731000+08:00","text":"另外第二個是，日本現在宣布2027年他們的駐外使節館（外館），會先採取使用星鏈，尤其是在比較容易發生天災或是比較容易有戰爭的國家，他們的駐外館會用星鏈系統來通訊，避免日本國人在那個國家發生狀況時失去聯繫。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:20:22.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:20:28.959000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個東西就可以思考一下，當然可能也要跟外交部一起討論。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:20:28.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:20:45.124000+08:00","text":"可是如果連日本都已經想到，也許臺灣本土境內沒辦法，但是至少我們的外館，尤其是像一些在友邦的駐外單位是不是也能夠使用星鏈這樣的通訊技術？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:20:45.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:20:54.482000+08:00","text":"未來可以讓他們跟國內的聯繫管道更暢通無虞，因為有些友邦的基礎建設真的沒那麼好，這可不可以研究一下？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:20:56.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:20:57.305000+08:00","text":"是，沒問題，委員講到重點了。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T10:20:57.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:11.416000+08:00","text":"剛才舉了日本的例子，日本本身也要發展自己的衛星產業，如果臺灣的電信業者有角色的話，臺灣衛星的發展在這部分才不會完全被bypass。","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:12.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:17.463000+08:00","text":"好，第二個部分可能跟外交部比較相關，數發部長能不能提一下？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:18.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:21.226000+08:00","text":"本席這樣的建議是不是能夠找外交部來討論看看？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:21.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:32.580000+08:00","text":"有沒有需要更強化，至少讓我們駐外單位連回臺灣的通訊，以及國人在那邊的通訊能夠有一些保障？是。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:32.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:37.486000+08:00","text":"委員的這個提議非常好，我們會跟外交部建議。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:37.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:45.855000+08:00","text":"不過這個事情因為第一個是外交，會牽涉到機密的事情，可能就是數發部沒辦法直接去做的，必須由外交部去做。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:46.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:55.845000+08:00","text":"另外，如果是在非洲的哪一個國家，就必須接受當地法律的規定。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:56.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:21:57.667000+08:00","text":"這個就不是NCC跟數發部可以管的。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:21:58.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:00.169000+08:00","text":"可以參考一下日本的，因為日本現在已經做了。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:22:00.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:08.555000+08:00","text":"他們宣布2027年他們在全球的駐外使節單位都會用衛星通訊跟他們國內保持聯繫。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:22:09.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:21.553000+08:00","text":"原本就已經有的通訊他們會維持，但是他們又多增加了星鏈這樣的技術以確保真的發生天災或是戰亂的時候，他們的國人還是可以跟日本政府取得聯繫，好不好？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-04-22T10:22:22.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:22.295000+08:00","text":"你們參考一下，好嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"林部長宜敬","start":"2026-04-22T10:22:23.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:25.199000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的提醒跟支持。謝謝。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:22:25.699000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:30.556143+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員的發言，謝謝部長跟主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:22:30.856143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:22:33.999000+08:00","text":"接下來請陳素月委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}