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11:34:10","會議時間":"2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席就「我國海域放射性物質監測執行現況及未來因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查（一）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（二）委員葉元之等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。（三）委員羅廷瑋等19人擬具「原子能法部分條文修正草案」案。【僅進行詢答；第(三)案，如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0434687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.12784375,"end":38.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.34971875,"end":76.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.95971875000001,"end":99.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.35534375,"end":84.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.67596875000001,"end":84.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.79409375,"end":84.91221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.91221875000001,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.00471875000001,"end":87.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.74971875,"end":99.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.94784375,"end":109.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.54971875000001,"end":140.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.41409375,"end":145.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.76346875000002,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.28659375,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.13284375,"end":159.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.34784375,"end":178.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.31284375,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.14659375000002,"end":178.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.87221875,"end":208.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.28096875,"end":247.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.51534375000003,"end":249.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.23659375000003,"end":256.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.02034375,"end":279.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.26159375000003,"end":309.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.48034375000003,"end":313.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.01596875,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.56846875,"end":322.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.56721875,"end":331.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.21534375000005,"end":343.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.65659375,"end":395.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.98909375,"end":350.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.96909375,"end":396.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.54284375000003,"end":415.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.77346875,"end":406.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.17284375,"end":435.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.03909375,"end":434.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.32159375000003,"end":438.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.31284375,"end":437.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.54909375000005,"end":443.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.40471875000003,"end":456.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.30971875,"end":462.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.60846875000004,"end":466.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.67534375,"end":467.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.16034375000004,"end":475.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.04096875000005,"end":478.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.58909375,"end":483.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.02284375000005,"end":485.18721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.62596875,"end":487.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.06846875,"end":490.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.95846875,"end":496.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":500.39159375,"end":500.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":502.07909375,"end":502.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":503.32784375000006,"end":503.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.47534375000004,"end":506.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":506.44971875000005,"end":506.66909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.66909375000006,"end":508.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":507.29346875000005,"end":507.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.38596875,"end":520.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.43471875,"end":530.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.13346875,"end":534.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.37346875,"end":545.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.2453437500001,"end":572.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.73471875,"end":576.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.1728437500001,"end":586.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.23034375,"end":592.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.1828437500001,"end":594.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":595.71846875,"end":598.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAK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換言之我們暫時可以解除警報了給國人安心對不對我們長期的監控而且具體的科學化的檢測都在做零件不合格大家可以相對放心解除一點點警報但是持續追蹤持續監測持續的科研是我們的立場好 下一頁"},{"start":209.381,"end":221.375,"text":"第三個驗收就是我們要善用跟台日既有的核能管制資訊交流MOU然後來爭取赴日第一個我當初的要求是第一手要拿到資訊第二個我們甚至要能夠籌組專家團去做而我累積追蹤到現在"},{"start":228.123,"end":256.348,"text":"你们也都有照本席的建议要求至少完成了六次复日实地的访查而不是只依赖他们提供的资讯第二个呢我们定期的视讯会议二十几次持续都在做这个部分我也给你们肯定好吗这个也是验收通过持续进行下一页那最后就是这个当初在说这个寒川沸水大家搞得很恐慌但事实上呢我们反而遗漏了"},{"start":257.148,"end":278.903,"text":"在离我们最近的台湾海峡这一侧因为寒川沸水会往花莲那一边因为那个潮汐那个黑潮的关系所以说在我们大台湾跟中国大陆沿海核电厂分布这么的密集反而对于中国沿岸核电厂排放物对台湾的影响是更严重的"},{"start":279.503,"end":296.997,"text":"我一直在提出這個警訊跟要求那solution是什麼呢我看到你們要提出一個116年到119年跨部會的國家海域放射性物質污染監控任性網就可以一件理由all in one既可以監測福島寒川廢水又可以更來補強"},{"start":304.182,"end":331.37,"text":"中國沿岸核電廠放射性物質排放是不是這個計畫這個韌性網就在做這個事是的 如委員所述那預算呢那我們現在在爭取那期望的一個總預算是大概是一個6億不過省政院這邊還在審議中所以說現在要審很遺憾現在才在審去年要審的預算那現在在編明年的概算會編入明年的嗎"},{"start":332.51,"end":349.516,"text":"我們來爭取全力爭取好嗎不能再等好嗎我們也會一起來跟行政部門來要求跟倡議我希望今年明年再審審查明年預算的時候我們可以看到這一筆好嗎我們會跨黨派來支持好繼續加油好下一個驗收"},{"start":352.718,"end":358.868,"text":"這裡國研院要請教日本當初東京電力公司他是針對不同的魚種進行這個養殖的這個實驗比木魚鮑魚海藻等等所以說他除了監測海流之外也做了這種"},{"start":368.301,"end":394.006,"text":"養殖的實驗證實用川水去養殖就對了那證實結果川並不會於生物體內累積所以對於生物的健康沒有顯著的影響當時我在問這件事情的時候你們告訴我國研院自己也在進行用黃錫雕來試驗現在是不是在進行中要不要增加實驗的物種要不要持續的增加實驗的時間"},{"start":396.161,"end":409.948,"text":"這些呢是 報告委員現階段會把這個黃錫雕的檢驗整個把它做完原來就包括黃錫雕龍鬚燦九孔刀白蝦做完以後看下一個計畫如果下一期計畫"},{"start":411.129,"end":426.732,"text":"要繼續做這個國家願意繼續投入我們會增加我也支持跟倡議要繼續做增加實驗的物種我覺得這是兩個保護傘兩道防線一個是監測寒川廢水的這個排放物"},{"start":427.253,"end":428.694,"text":"很多在野党的委员在说核能很便宜"},{"start":457.393,"end":464.801,"text":"核能是真的那麼便宜的嗎主委你剛剛的回答我是大有意見你以他的發電的收費來看"},{"start":468.226,"end":496.097,"text":"我們對於核能的投資對於工程設備的更新尤其現在廚藝的核電廠要再啟用還有要對於採購燃料棒還有對於他的賠償風險你都不提耶你都不提耶我們作為一個政策的倡議者你是核安會的主委你可以輕率的回答說對核電比較安全我再給你一次機會"},{"start":500.41,"end":508.368,"text":"喝电不是零风险所以风险是有代价的风险也需要"},{"start":510.815,"end":529.592,"text":"你不能用核電的發電的幾塊錢一度一塊多比這個其他的人這個燃煤還便宜來簡化這個問題啊我用具體的數字來說你知道福島核電廠發生複合式的災害之後日本政府投入多少錢賠償嗎"},{"start":532.179,"end":552.552,"text":"我跟大家講我要跟公民社會講福島核電廠發生我們不幸的災難事件我們不願意看到它發生日本政府已經投入光賠償金10兆日元如果加上賠償金跟清理後續的廠的收拾是花費了22兆日元"},{"start":553.493,"end":575.681,"text":"最終這件事情還沒有結束喔最終會解決這整個福島核電衍生的善後最終的花費可能會到35兆至80兆日元我取它的中間值就是大概55兆日元等於11兆台幣光一個核電廠出現了安全的問題"},{"start":577.23,"end":598.508,"text":"他投入11兆台币现在还在收拾是4年的台湾国家政府总预算你告诉我核电很便宜你告诉我这些设备设施风险的代价不用计算吗主委我实在不能接受问题不能这么简化"},{"start":599.522,"end":618.228,"text":"委員他在垂尋他會從某一個切點切入可是我們在看待政策是要全面的我甚至我剛舉日本的例子我可以舉美國的例子啊跟核三廠類似的美國加州的魔鬼谷核電廠你們應當常常會提到這個案例吧"},{"start":619.108,"end":643.72,"text":"他對於整個攤提的成本設備的更新燃料的添購他的發電核電一度要到4塊台幣如果把攤提算進去絕對不是簡單說核電光講發電一度一塊多是廉價的是便宜的我認為我們講政策要講清楚要講全面"},{"start":645.101,"end":672.612,"text":"委員只看到其一你必須縱觀好嗎核電的風險跟安全的代價也是國家要pay for it台灣人民要pay for it這個事情我要在這裡正式的來澄清說清楚不要只看到核電的好處而它的好處也不是只有比較便宜這一項而你遺漏了它可能造成的風險"},{"start":674.033,"end":696.102,"text":"安全是無價的安全是無價的安全是無價的但即便如此我們二次的能源轉型我們要做的是能源的多元化核電只是其一核電不是唯一而核電還包括新式核能的開發不是只有舊核電的老路所以我確實"},{"start":697.603,"end":723.418,"text":"我也肯定政府正在做能源多元化的整体评估重启核电要过了安全这一关要有核废可以解决的这一关还有社会的共识要具足所以核电只是其一并非唯一这是我在这里要再次强调我刚回答是根据台电的说法这不是核安会的立场"},{"start":724.198,"end":728.408,"text":"那你的說法會被剪成影片去放你知道嗎我剛剛說的說不出裁店的"},{"start":731.283,"end":751.537,"text":"所以那您最後一樣主席站起來了最後給您10秒鐘核電真的是如此的廉價不需要去思考它的安全風險嗎您再回答一次我們核安會事實上只關心的是核電的安全經濟上是不是有效率就讓它們由台電來評估所以發言請注意發言請嚴謹好嗎好 謝謝加油辛苦了謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}