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彭部長請問一下我們在2025年我們看了一下全台掩埋一場有高達24起的火災那當然從南到北都有那後來你們也有發新聞稿說我們全台廢棄物戰之日常發生火災的原因是因為秋季異常的暖乾還有我們電池物品未分類的問題"},{"start":42.754,"end":51.684,"text":"那我想請問一下我們針對電池的部分我們不是有管理嗎那為什麼還會有沒有分類的在我們的掩埋場裡面"},{"start":53.546,"end":73.155,"text":"這個其實我們最近其實也想要啟動行動電源行動電源雖然有一些回收機制但是其實還不夠大量所以還是有一些民眾他會直接丟到垃圾堆裡面然後造成這種容易火災的事情發生所以的確雖然有分類的體系但是還是有一些漏網之魚"},{"start":73.695,"end":101.126,"text":"所以針對這部分等於說沒有說分類的很徹底對對我們現在應該到了這個10月11月我們現在在規劃一個新的機制有機會會把這個量特別是告訴大家因為現在以前是比較少行動電源的問題因為行動電源現在幾乎是人手一台所以基本上事實上手機有鋰電池也會造成這樣的影響所以我們要鼓勵大家手機或是行動電源都要按照我們正當的程序來做回收"},{"start":101.886,"end":130.916,"text":"所以你們認為說這個掩埋場起火的原因就是有很多原因是因為這個電池位分裂還有這個行動離電池的關係嘛對就是其實這個東西不是只有行電鏈還有很多的玩具還有很多日常家電用品裡面都有這種小的電池那個經過這個大自然喔這個不管是刮風這個日曬之後很容易就會火災這個是一個很很主要的一個原因啦好那今天會提這個其實還是有一個問題因為我們知道說"},{"start":131.636,"end":150.587,"text":"像大量的廢棄物它混雜會發酵產生熱量那尤其我們像不要說秋冬尤其現在馬上夏天了那個溫度太高也會加速分解也會產生早氣那我們現在要討論的問題就是說我們很快的馬上到今年底"},{"start":151.127,"end":168.966,"text":"我們廚餘就要全面回收那這些廚餘我們收到以後去掩埋那這樣子產生早氣那是不是發生火災的風險會更大包委員目前廚餘處理並沒有走到掩埋的程序主要是堆肥或是這個黑水盲"},{"start":169.386,"end":197.812,"text":"或是說生殖能或是說最後最後還是有一部分去這個焚化爐啦所以目前我們並沒有鼓勵走到對其實我們擔心說其實你電池會沒有分類像有很多的廚餘啊其實民眾也是會裝在垃圾裡面一樣來丟棄在裡面所以我們說你電池你看你都有管理辦法都還要去罰錢都沒有辦法落實那你這個廚餘現在尤其我們是認為喔它處理的量能也會有問題啊"},{"start":198.732,"end":223.526,"text":"到時候甚至在掩埋場裡面一定也是很多的廚餘混雜在裡面那產生早期那以後發生火災的機會一定是會更大那所以我們現在重點我們想了解一下我們針對廚餘據我們了解我們現在廚餘在利用的方式像我們現在事業廚餘裡面我們去了解我們全國大概有"},{"start":225.827,"end":250.558,"text":"25%現在還是用珍珠養豬那家戶廚餘跟事業廚餘大概有23%我們是用焚化的方式處理那當然焚化的方式我們查了一下包含新北台北等14個縣市都用焚化的方式那我們也知道焚化廚餘其實它也是會產生代澳型而且也會影響"},{"start":251.798,"end":275.303,"text":"焚化毒的年限那我們現在如果廚餘前面不能養豬禁止養豬之後這廚餘的量勢必會大量增加那我們現在到底處理這個方式有了解我們有更多的多元的處理方式還有我們處理的量能是不是一定會嚴重不足"},{"start":276.123,"end":297.254,"text":"報告委員,關於這個大躍興的問題,其實我們很重視,所以我有特別請每個焚化爐都要去針對這個大躍興去做檢測,全部符合規則。那另外一個是我們還包含了幾個相對的高一點點的,我們都有量周介,所以也都符合現在所有的環境的這個大躍興可能排放的一個標準。"},{"start":297.814,"end":321.855,"text":"至於說那個量能現在預計的確還不夠還是需要靠焚化爐但是預計到明年的年底我們就希望說這個量能可以平衡不過我們最大的挑戰是今年的年底到明年一月的時候因為他就不能去未租了所以基本上連事業廚餘都要進到進到這個所謂的我們正常的回收的體系那預計這個的問題要到明年年底才有辦法得到一個平衡"},{"start":322.655,"end":349.433,"text":"所以我們現在你廚餘回收之後我們現在除了堆肥還有什麼方式能夠處理黑水盟還有生殖能所以我們現在好像我們生殖能中心好像桃園有一個生殖能中心他可以處理生廚餘跟熟廚餘那台中外埔綠能生態園區他就只能處理生廚餘也可以的他也可以現在也可以的"},{"start":350.994,"end":369.95,"text":"其實據我們了解,其實我們也去考察很多,像我們上次去觀音,我們也了解到其實現在有很多的技術能夠處理廚餘,好像我們了解說那次考察有去到觀音,那後來我們也去看了一下我們新北,其實它有一個"},{"start":371.455,"end":399.743,"text":"處理廚餘的技術我們去看一下他是用高壓高溫水解的技術來做廚餘去化這個部分部長知道有這個技術嗎那個對於這個廚餘處理的確是可以的但是他也會產生很多的這個污水那目前這個是處理廚餘是應該是可以進行的方案不過因為他還是在一個試驗型的一個特性那他有經過一些小型的這個運作"},{"start":400.703,"end":413.976,"text":"那當然啦必須說這個東西屬於民間或是說製造廚藝的人他未來這個東西都要有一定的費用就跟垃圾是一樣的在這個市場上一定要有一個商業模式才可以運轉的不過據我們這瞭解我們剛剛講這個高溫高壓這水解技術喔"},{"start":418.24,"end":436.732,"text":"它可以全部做處理它固態的廚餘乾燥之後可以做SRF也可以做碳化的肥料然後它液態的它經過過濾濃縮之後可以做液態肥那它唯一有的廢棄物就是油脂那結果它油脂"},{"start":437.452,"end":451.491,"text":"可以回收去做這個生態燃料油所以看起來他幾乎可以全面的做處理我想說像這個處理的方式他應該可以做全面處理像後來我們了解他說其實"},{"start":452.964,"end":469.143,"text":"他說他一天處理的噸數可以到300噸他目前50噸而已對 可是現在只叫他做50噸所以我們就覺得很奇怪那我們處理那麼多都沒有辦法處理那他說他量能可以處理到那麼大為什麼可以處理到300噸 結果我們只"},{"start":472.625,"end":486.83,"text":"因為它才剛開始啦那必須任何一個環保設施都必須要讓大家有信心才能繼續做下去所以目前呢我知道新北市環保局也跟他們積極在合作如果它50噸沒有問題的話我相信應該到300噸應該就有機會打開了"},{"start":488.831,"end":508.794,"text":"好那是因為說現在我們馬上面臨廚餘禁止養豬這個廚餘的量一定會變得更大所以我們希望我們除了黑水盟還有堆肥這些方式應該我們環境部要趕快請環保局去了解我們處理的量能還有有沒有更多"},{"start":510.015,"end":526.899,"text":"處理多元的方式看希望能夠找污染更低有更大規模的來處理這部分我們應該趕快來盤點清楚不然馬上我們面臨這個問題會非常非常的嚴重我們每兩個禮拜都在開會都在跟各縣市在檢討這個數字然後他們的進度好 那我簡單再問一下"},{"start":533.322,"end":558.474,"text":"我請問一下部長我們現在廢清法針對非灰沒有汙染的部分是不是目前是可以回收再利用的我看很多縣市都有回收再利用對不對對對對對只要檢測沒有汙染就可以做嗎對沒錯對然後去做什麼CLCM這種低強度的混泥土之類的對不對對沒錯那我們馬上是不是也要推動我們資源循環促進法"},{"start":558.934,"end":573.665,"text":"是那這個目的當然是讓更我們要找更多的東西希望都能夠這個推動循環經濟把很多能夠回收的盡量讓他去回收然後減少這個垃圾量也能夠減碳這推動這個循環經濟嘛是沒錯那所以"},{"start":577.307,"end":599.616,"text":"我也希望像我們針對非灰的部分我們當然可以從嚴認定可是現在很多業者擔心說本來這個可以回收利用的不要到時候變成因為錯誤的方向導致到時候非灰完全不能回收利用那造成更多的"},{"start":600.396,"end":617.553,"text":"更多的垃圾更多的明明就可以回收利用的東西變成不能回收利用我們可以從嚴認定而且你像CLSM你如果擔心會有污染問題你可以去不要去買有金屬管的這個工程嘛 對不對"},{"start":620.044,"end":635.672,"text":"報告委員我們其實對於這個問題因為近期有一些特別的案例所以我們也思考到法規有必須要調整所以我們的概念大概是從嚴管理但是我們也鼓勵再利用學生的話鼓勵再利用我們是完全支持的"},{"start":636.632,"end":657.001,"text":"所以我希望我們也不要本末倒置本來廢清法可以針對非灰我們可以從嚴認定從嚴的檢測只要無汙染的一定讓他去做回收再利用你不要變成推動資源循環促進法以後本來可以回收的變成不能去使用"},{"start":658.001,"end":679.472,"text":"我是認定我們可以要求從嚴認定嚴格的把關但是不能本末導致明明可以回收利用的變成不能回收利用那你如果擔心說會有污染金屬管的問題你就CLSM不要去買這個有金屬管的工程那你如果說擔心說"},{"start":680.552,"end":702.119,"text":"加到混泥土裡面什麼20年30年可能會有污染問題那你去固化一樣也會有這個問題所以這個顧慮是有點多餘的是我們現在在修改然後也會跟業界來討論如何去修改就是管制一定要嚴格但是我們還是鼓勵這個循環再利用的一個方式所以我希望我們推動這個"},{"start":703.559,"end":729.504,"text":"支援循環促進法就是希望能夠有更多可以回收再利用的我們就回收再利用那當然我們認為所有這些把關檢測我們一定是從嚴認定但是可以用的你不能可以回收利用的不能變成說不能回收利用那這樣子我們推動這個循環經濟這就變得沒有道理了是是好那也希望部長能夠聽到更多的聲音好謝謝謝謝圖全經"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:31.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:31.739000+08:00","text":"請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:31.739000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:36.638000+08:00","text":"請彭部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:36.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:25:36.778000+08:00","text":"涂委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:25:37.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:02.373000+08:00","text":"彭部長，請問一下，2025年全臺掩埋場有高達24起火災，當然，從南到北都有，後來你們也有發新聞稿，全臺廢棄物暫置場發生火災的原因，是因為秋季異常暖乾，還有電池物品未分類的問題。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:03.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:08.579000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，針對電池的部分，我們不是有管理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:08.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:12.664000+08:00","text":"為什麼還會發生掩埋場裡面有未分類的電池？","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:14.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:34.155000+08:00","text":"其實我們最近也想要啟動行動電源的部分，因為行動電源雖然有一些回收機制，但是還不夠大量，還是有一些民眾會直接丟到垃圾堆裡面，造成容易發生火災的問題，雖然有分類的體系，但還是有一些漏網之魚。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:34.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:39.797000+08:00","text":"所以針對這部分，等於沒有分類的很澈底？對。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:41.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:46.520000+08:00","text":"應該是10月、11月，我們現在在規劃一個新的機制，有機會把這個數量降下來。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:48.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:50.841000+08:00","text":"以前比較少有行動電源的問題啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:50.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:26:51.462000+08:00","text":"因為現在幾乎人手一台行動電源。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:26:54.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:02.106000+08:00","text":"事實上手機的鋰電池也會造成這樣的影響，所以我們要鼓勵大家，手機或是行動電源都要按照正當程序回收。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:02.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:11.729000+08:00","text":"所以你們認為掩埋場起火的原因，很多時候是因為電池，還有行動鋰電池的關係嗎？對。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:12.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:27.514000+08:00","text":"其實不是只有行動電源，還有很多玩具、日常家電用品，裡面都有這種小電池，經過大自然的刮風日曬之後，很容易就會發生火災，這是很主要的原因。好。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:28.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:27:46.464000+08:00","text":"今天會提這個部分，其實還有一個問題，因為我們知道大量廢棄物混雜在一起會發酵產生熱量，不要說秋冬，像現在馬上就要夏天了，溫度太高也會加速分解，會產生沼氣。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:27:46.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:02.157000+08:00","text":"我們現在要討論的問題就是，很快的，今年底廚餘就要全面回收，這些廚餘回收以後掩埋，產生沼氣之後，發生火災的風險是不是會更大？","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:03.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:15.247000+08:00","text":"目前廚餘處理並沒有走到掩埋的程序，主要是堆肥或是用黑水虻分解或是做生質能，最後還是有一部分送焚化爐啦！","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:15.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:17.708000+08:00","text":"目前我們並沒有鼓勵走堆肥的方式。對。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:17.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:26.049000+08:00","text":"其實我們擔心的是，不止你說的電池沒有分類，像很多廚餘，其實民眾也會裝在垃圾裡面丟棄。對。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:27.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:33.371000+08:00","text":"所以電池的部分，即便你們有管理辦法，也會罰錢，但還是沒有辦法落實。","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:34.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:38.792000+08:00","text":"至於廚餘的部分，我們認為處理的量能也有問題啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:39.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:28:48.417000+08:00","text":"到時候在掩埋場裡面，一定也會有很多廚餘混雜在裡面、也會產生沼氣，以後發生火災的機會一定會更大。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:28:49.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:09.088000+08:00","text":"所以現在的重點是，我們想了解一下現在廚餘再利用的方式，像事業廚餘，據了解現在全國大概有25%還是用於蒸煮養豬。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:09.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:16.071000+08:00","text":"家戶廚餘和事業廚餘，大概有23%是用焚化的方式處理。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:17.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:23.794000+08:00","text":"當然，我們查了一下，包含新北、臺北等14個縣市都用焚化的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:24.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:33.638000+08:00","text":"我們也知道，焚化廚餘其實也會產生戴奧辛，而且也會影響焚化爐的年限。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:35.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:52.182000+08:00","text":"現在如果廚餘全面禁止養豬，之後廚餘勢必會大量增加，現在是否有更多元的處理方式？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:52.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:29:56.283000+08:00","text":"還有，我們處理的量能是不是一定會嚴重不足？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:29:58.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:07.769000+08:00","text":"關於戴奧辛的問題，其實我們也很重視，所以我有特別請每個焚化爐都要針對戴奧辛做檢測，要全部符合規則。","quality":0.822},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:07.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:18.234000+08:00","text":"另外，幾個相對高一點點的地方，我們都有測量周界，也都符合現在所有環境戴奧辛的排放標準。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:18.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:27.682000+08:00","text":"至於量能，現在的確還不夠，還是需要靠焚化爐，但是預計到明年年底，我們希望這個量能可以平衡。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:27.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:42.835000+08:00","text":"不過我們最大的挑戰是今年年底到明年1月的時候，因為它不能拿去餵豬了，基本上連事業廚餘都要進到正常的回收體系，預計這個問題要到明年年底才有辦法得到平衡。對啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:43.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:49.039000+08:00","text":"所以現在廚餘回收之後除了堆肥，還有什麼方式能夠處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:49.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:30:54.402000+08:00","text":"黑水虻，還有生質能。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:30:55.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:08.412000+08:00","text":"現在桃園好像有一個生質能中心，它可以處理生廚餘和熟廚餘，臺中外埔綠能生態園區只能處理生廚餘。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:08.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:08.752000+08:00","text":"它也可以處理。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:09.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:12.735000+08:00","text":"現在也可以了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:13.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:22.783000+08:00","text":"其實我們也去考察過很多地方，像我們上次去觀音，也了解現在有很多技術能夠處理廚餘。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:26.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:39.937000+08:00","text":"後來我們也去看了一下，其實新北有一個處理廚餘的技術，它是用高壓、高溫水解的技術做廚餘去化。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:42.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:44.118000+08:00","text":"部長知道這個技術嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:44.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:31:49.900000+08:00","text":"知道，那個技術的確可以處理廚餘，但是它也會產生很多污水。","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:31:50.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:02.084000+08:00","text":"目前處理廚餘的方式，這應該是可以進行的方案，不過因為它還是在試驗性的階段，但它有經過一些小型的運作，當然啦！","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:03.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:04.546000+08:00","text":"這個東西屬於民間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:06.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:13.014000+08:00","text":"未來處理廚餘都要有一定的費用，和垃圾是一樣的，在市場上，一定要有一個商業模式才可以運轉。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:13.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:26.405000+08:00","text":"不過據我們了解，剛剛講的高溫、高壓水解技術可以全部處理，固態的廚餘乾燥之後可以做SRF，也可以做碳化的肥料。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:27.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:32.328000+08:00","text":"液態的經過過濾、濃縮之後可以做液態肥。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:33.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:45.321000+08:00","text":"它唯一的廢棄物就是油脂，但是油脂可以回收做生態燃料油，所以看起來，它幾乎可以全面做處理。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:47.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:57.208000+08:00","text":"這個處理方式應該可以做全面處理，後來我們了解，它一天處理的噸數可以到300噸，可是現在……","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:57.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:32:58.349000+08:00","text":"它目前只處理50噸而已。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:32:59.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:01.693000+08:00","text":"對，可是現在只讓它做50噸。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:01.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:10.123000+08:00","text":"所以我們就覺得很奇怪，現在那麼多廚餘沒有辦法處理，他說他們的量能可以處理到那麼大的量，為什麼明明可以處理300噸，結果我們只要求他們處理這些？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:13.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:14.846000+08:00","text":"因為它才剛開始啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:15.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:20.608000+08:00","text":"任何一個環保設施都必須讓大家有信心才能繼續做下去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:22.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:29.831000+08:00","text":"我知道目前新北市環保局也和他們積極合作，如果50噸沒有問題的話，我相信300噸應該就有機會了。好。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:30.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:33:52.115000+08:00","text":"因為我們馬上會面臨廚餘禁止養豬，廚餘的量一定會變的更大，所以我們希望除了黑水虻、堆肥這些方式，環境部應該趕快請環保局去了解處理的量能，還有沒有更多元的處理方式？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:33:53.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:04.278000+08:00","text":"希望能夠找污染更低，可以更大規模的處理，這部分應該要趕快盤點清楚，不然我們馬上會面臨這個問題，這個問題非常嚴重。有。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:04.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:07.659000+08:00","text":"我們每兩個禮拜都會開會，和各縣市檢討這個數字，還有他們的進度。好。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:07.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:22.166000+08:00","text":"我簡單再問一下，請問部長，現在廢清法針對飛灰沒有污染的部分，目前是不是可以回收再利用？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:23.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:26.928000+08:00","text":"很多縣市都有回收再利用，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:26.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:26.928000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:26.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.369000+08:00","text":"只要檢測沒有污染就可以用嘛！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:28.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:29.489000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:30.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:34.812000+08:00","text":"做CLSM這種低強度的混凝土之類的，對不對？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:34.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:35.152000+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:35.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:39.934000+08:00","text":"我們是不是馬上也要推動資源循環促進法？是。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:40.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:54.125000+08:00","text":"這麼做的目的，是因為我們要找更多東西，希望都能夠推動循環經濟，很多能夠回收的都要儘量回收，減少垃圾量，也能夠減碳，推動循環經濟。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:54.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:34:54.465000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:34:54.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:26.862000+08:00","text":"所以針對飛灰的部分，我們當然可以從嚴認定，可是現在很多業者擔心，本來可以回收利用的，不要因為錯誤的方向，導致到時候飛灰完全不能回收利用，造成更多的垃圾，很多明明可以回收利用的東西，變成不能回收利用。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:27.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:38.153000+08:00","text":"我們可以從嚴認定，而且像CLSM，如果你們擔心會有污染問題，可以不要用在有金屬管的工程嘛！","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:38.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:38.553000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:42.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:48.328000+08:00","text":"對於這個問題，因為近期有一些特別的案例，所以我們也思考到法規必須調整。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:48.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:35:56.652000+08:00","text":"我們的概念大概是從嚴管理，但是我們也鼓勵再利用，好學生就是要鼓勵再利用，我們是完全支持的。好，對。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:35:57.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:17.981000+08:00","text":"所以我希望不要本末倒置，本來依據廢清法，針對飛灰的部分，我們可以從嚴認定、從嚴檢測，只要無污染的，一定讓它回收再利用，不要推動資源循環促進法以後，本來可以回收的變成不能使用。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:19.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:30.527000+08:00","text":"我認為可以要求從嚴認定、嚴格把關，但是不能本末倒置，明明可以回收利用的變成不能回收利用。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:31.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:38.451000+08:00","text":"如果你們擔心會有污染金屬管的問題，那麼CLSM就不要用在有金屬管的工程嘛！","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:39.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:36:51.535000+08:00","text":"如果擔心加到混凝土裡面，20年、30年之後可能會有污染問題，那固化一樣也會有這個問題，所以這個顧慮有點多餘啦！是。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:36:51.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:00.978000+08:00","text":"我們現在在修改，也和業界討論如何修改，就是管制一定要嚴格，但是我們還是鼓勵這個循環再利用的方式。對。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:02.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:26.801000+08:00","text":"我們推動資源循環促進法，就是希望能夠有更多東西可以回收再利用，當然，我們認為把關、檢測一定要從嚴認定，但是可以回收利用的，不能變成不能回收利用，這樣我們推動循環經濟就變的沒有道理了。是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"涂委員權吉","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:27.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:30.324000+08:00","text":"也希望部長能夠聽到更多聲音，謝謝。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:30.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:30.484000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:30.984000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:33.555429+08:00","text":"謝謝涂權吉委員發言。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:33.855429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:38.712571+08:00","text":"洪毓祥委員、洪毓祥委員、洪毓祥委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:37:39.012571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:37:41.869714+08:00","text":"接著請王正旭委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}