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謝謝主席那在這裡我來邀請我們NCC的陳代理主委還有我們事務部的林部長好 請陳代理主委跟林部長"},{"start":19.482,"end":44.199,"text":"好 首先我們就直接我們代理主委跟部長早那今天我想我們最重要的針對我們電信管理法的一個修法第36條的修法我相信今天早上我們陳代理主委也"},{"start":46.64,"end":71.235,"text":"也回答了我們很多委員的質詢當然我們這個修法的提案那我們也都有了解那在這裡針對外國人的這樣的一個股本跟外國人的持股比例這些要求那我想我在這邊就直接問我們這個陳代理主委"},{"start":72.336,"end":73.278,"text":"我們這邊的態度怎麼樣針對這個修法針對我們對這樣的一個可能對我們的國際通訊的這樣的一個開放我們的態度"},{"start":88.763,"end":113.588,"text":"跟總召報告都是幾點第一點就是現行的條文如果沒有修正其實是可以操作的那如果說針對國家認定國安或者政府部門的需求的話其實可以另行比方說考量跟對方洽談土壁或土基就是government另外特別處理比方說採這個專用電信的話就完全不會是用36條用50條就可以處理"},{"start":116.329,"end":130.896,"text":"第二個意見補充第三個意見補充是好那性情的條文跟如果要修正因為要考量這個數據主權跟國安等等我建議我們這邊是建議說還要多聽相關人的意見以上好"},{"start":131.616,"end":156.844,"text":"那從我們主委這邊我們談到就是說其實這一部修法目前如果不送吧其實就現有的一個規定現有的條文應該就可以來容許我們這個國際的這樣的一個低軌衛星進入到我們台灣的市場對不對是"},{"start":159.565,"end":178.57,"text":"應該沒問題所以目前事實上也有好幾個業者跟我們國內在配合嘛國內業者配合對,這總之目前的畫面上所顯示目前都是選現有的條文走進來帶台灣落地的對啊所以基本上有沒有修改條文等於說"},{"start":180.003,"end":202.304,"text":"基本上不影響我們現有的國際衛星通訊進入台灣市場那如果依主委剛剛的意思如果有進一步的需要可能要再多聽多了解是不是真正的有這樣的必要對不對好那我在這裡我們第二頁好不好我要了解的"},{"start":203.425,"end":217.238,"text":"那個我們下一頁簡報我們也知道目前整個最重要的一個微信通信系統最主要目前我們一般民眾啊擔心的是詐騙的問題嘛詐騙的問題那當然對對國家來講對我們來講國安的一個風險也是非常重要那今天如果"},{"start":229.469,"end":238.953,"text":"我們對這個微信通信這樣的一個系統就剛剛主委所談我們沒有我們的一個國內我們的業者沒有我們的一個要求完全開放給外國國際進來這樣對整個國安的風險會有一個顯著的一個影響"},{"start":255.481,"end":261.184,"text":"那就這樣我是在這邊再請我們主委您針對詐騙跟國安風險這兩個項目你們來做一個說明好不好是跟總督報告這個詐騙 防詐"},{"start":271.75,"end":285.638,"text":"治安這一部分其實就涉及到說有本國業者參與的情況跟沒有本國業者參與的情況它的效率上的呈現出來就是不太一樣應該會不一樣嘛這個已經在這個平台那邊已經發現已經顯現那至於國安這一塊其實它是"},{"start":290.761,"end":307.931,"text":"兩個面向它是互相矛盾的就韌性而言任何低軌衛星特別是這個STARLINK它是韌性最好的但是國安上呢國安上它其實另外一個面向它的第二代它其實可以在台灣它可以不用設基位不用設基位的話另外國安問題來了"},{"start":309.091,"end":325.668,"text":"就是數據主權不在我們台灣這邊會是矛盾的現象那是矛盾 相互矛盾那這邊的部分我們從過去的經驗沒有國人的產育我們未來能夠來可控性我們就降低"},{"start":326.669,"end":354.708,"text":"所以這一方面也請您評估那另外這樣的一個修法會不會違反我們電信管理建立制度的一致性我在這邊也提出這樣的一個建議就誠如剛剛主委所談我們目前的36條其實就可以來運行那如果為單一的一個廠商如果來"},{"start":356.589,"end":378.56,"text":"調整開放那會不會違反電信建立制度的一致性那也會形成我們市場排擠還有我們所謂我們自己電信管理法我們自己所談的公平競爭原則所以我在這裡還是要建議有關於這個"},{"start":381.121,"end":404.138,"text":"最近管理法36條是否修正了真的還要更加的審慎 多以評估那也要保障我們通訊的主權 這樣一定要去做到審慎的把關 完善的配套 而能降低我們剛剛談的不管是詐騙 不管是國安 這樣都能夠把風險來降低"},{"start":408.061,"end":423.31,"text":"那在這裡我要再提一個另外一個主題就是我們現在我們有很多的一個民眾大家感受到非常困擾的就是偷拍"},{"start":425.231,"end":452.888,"text":"偷拍這個狀況我們目前還想在網路搜尋成為一個關鍵字那透過真空攝影機來進行偷拍我們從今年從2月到現在我們已經有好幾個案子是涉瑞所謂的案件那我們民眾在我們政府的公共政策網路的參與平台也提案"},{"start":453.849,"end":482.968,"text":"希望就真孔攝影機啊能夠來做源頭的管理那這個真孔攝影機啊我們一般業者都標榜齁它是經過我們NCC的審核尤其在我們網路平台在販售齁在平台在販售都是說經過我們NCC的審核這個合格那就變成合格"},{"start":483.849,"end":504.255,"text":"就合法然後這個偷拍的風險就全民來承擔那我想說我們在審查這個是怎麼去審查NCC怎麼去審查是跟總統報告真孔攝影機大概分兩大類一個是無線一個是有線無線部分他會利用這個攝影頻率去傳"},{"start":506.556,"end":521.316,"text":"那這一塊就有NCC的角色NCC在管啊那如果是有限部分那個是屬於一般商品一般商品的話即便是無限的話一般商品大概經濟部的BSMI就是標準檢驗局那邊也會有一些處理那如果源頭上要管制"},{"start":521.716,"end":535.745,"text":"假設說全台灣有公司說這類產品就不要再製造了那恐怕就是相關這個商品的主管機關他如果取得說主管機關推到經濟部就會有色品的部分還是在我們這邊那網路平台現在在販賣在購買非常的方便"},{"start":547.933,"end":567.893,"text":"我想我們速發部這邊也針對網路平台這邊的販售我想今天在這邊提出來是希望我們包括NCC包括我們速發部能夠針對這樣的一個無限的真空攝影機這樣在平台的"},{"start":570.215,"end":597.496,"text":"這個方便的購買販售那也看到了我們審查合格既然我們有審議有審查我們應該是不是兩個部會啊做一些探討討論來檢討我們現在的制度可能不能就來反映民意來溯源來管理啊這個部分我想說請我們代理主委跟部長這邊做一些研究好不好"},{"start":598.277,"end":599.819,"text":"沒有問題我們會找相關部會來討論原則如何來處理好 以上謝謝兩位"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:07:59.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:08:10.895000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我邀請NCC陳代理主委及數發部林部長。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:08:11.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:08:12.356000+08:00","text":"請陳代理主委跟林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:08:13.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:08:13.482000+08:00","text":"總召好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:08:20.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:08:22.108000+08:00","text":"代理主委及部長早。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:08:23.389000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:09:06.637000+08:00","text":"今天最重要的是電信管理法第三十六條的修法，我相信今天早上陳代理主委也回答了很多委員的質詢，當然修法的提案我們也都有了解，針對外國人持股比例的這些要求，我在這邊就直接問陳代理主委，你們這邊的態度是怎麼樣？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:09:06.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:09:07.258000+08:00","text":"針對這個修法，這樣可能會影響我們國際通信的開放，你們的態度是如何？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:09:22.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:09:28.384000+08:00","text":"跟總召報告幾點，第一點，現行條文如果沒有修正其實是可以操作的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:09:30.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:09:51.009000+08:00","text":"針對國家韌性、國安或政府部門的需求，其實可以另行考量且跟對方洽談，to B或to G都是government的，另外特別處理，比方採專用電信的話，就完全不會適用第三十六條，用第五十條就可以處理，這是第二個意見補充。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:09:51.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:10:04.876000+08:00","text":"第三個意見補充是，現行條文如果要修正，因為要考量數據主權跟國安等等，我們建議還要多聽相關利害關係人的意見，以上。好。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:10:06.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:10:30.824000+08:00","text":"從代理主委這邊我們談到的是，這一部修法目前如果不送，其實現有規定、現有條文應該就可以容許國際低軌衛星進入我們臺灣市場，對不對？是。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:10:33.565000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:10:42.127000+08:00","text":"應該沒問題，所以事實上目前也有好幾個在跟國內業者配合。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:10:42.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:10:48.629000+08:00","text":"對，依畫面上所顯示的總召資料，目前都是循現有條文進來在臺灣落地的。對啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:10:49.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:11:14.723000+08:00","text":"所以基本上有沒有修改條文，等於不影響我們現有國際衛星通信進入臺灣市場，依代理主委剛剛的意思，如果有進一步的需要，可能要再多聽、多了解是不是真正有這樣的必要，對不對？對。好。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:11:15.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:12:12.543000+08:00","text":"我要了解的是，我們也知道目前整個最重要的衛星通信系統，最主要一般民眾擔心的是詐騙問題，當然對國家來講、對我們來講，國安風險也是非常重要，今天如果我們對於衛星通信系統，就如剛剛代理主委所談的，我們對國內業者沒有要求，就完全開放給外國、國際進來，這樣對整個國安風險會有顯著的影響，我是不是再請代理主委針對詐騙跟國安風險這兩個項目做一個說明？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:12:13.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:12:37.057000+08:00","text":"是，跟總召報告，防詐或治安部分其實就涉及到有本國業者參與的情況跟沒有本國業者參與的情況，其效率上所呈現出來的就是不太一樣……","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:12:37.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:12:37.337000+08:00","text":"應該要不一樣嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:12:38.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:12:39.118000+08:00","text":"我之前有聽到，因為平臺那邊已經發現，已顯現了。","quality":0.55},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:12:39.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:13:08.377000+08:00","text":"至於國安這一塊，其實它是兩個面向，是互相矛盾的，就韌性而言，任何低軌衛星，特別是Starlink，它是韌性最好的，但是國安上，在另外一個面向，它的第二代其實在臺灣可以不用設gateway，不用設gateway的話，那麼國安問題就來了，因為數據主權不在我們臺灣這邊，會是矛盾的現象。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:13:08.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:13:10.119000+08:00","text":"是相互矛盾嘛！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:13:11.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:13:19.648000+08:00","text":"而詐騙的部分，我們從過去的經驗，沒有國人的參與，未來的可控性，我們就降低了。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:13:19.648000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:13:20.669000+08:00","text":"對，效率會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:13:20.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:13:23.211000+08:00","text":"所以這方面也請你們評估。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:13:24.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:13:31.396000+08:00","text":"另外，這樣的修法會不會違反電信監理制度的一致性？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:13:31.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:14:08.418000+08:00","text":"我在這邊也提出這樣的建議，就誠如剛剛代理主委所談的，我們以目前的第三十六條其實就可以運行，如果為單一廠商調整而開放，會不會違反電信監理制度的一致性，也會形成我們的市場排擠，還有我們自己電信管理法所談的公平競爭原則？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:14:08.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:14:38.118000+08:00","text":"所以，我在這裡還是要建議，有關於電信管理法第三十六條是否修正，真的還要更加地審慎評估，也要保障我們通訊的主權，一定要去做到審慎的把關、完善的配套，而能降低我們剛剛談的，不管是詐騙、不管是國安，都能夠把風險降低。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:14:43.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:14:57.290000+08:00","text":"在這裡我要再提另外一個主題，現在有很多民眾感受到非常困擾的就是偷拍。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:14:59.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:15:11.839000+08:00","text":"偷拍目前來講，在網路搜尋成為一個關鍵字，透過針孔攝影機來進行偷拍。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:15:13.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:15:20.204000+08:00","text":"今年從2月到現在，已經有好幾個案子是社會矚目的案件。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:15:21.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:15:33.553000+08:00","text":"民眾在政府的公共政策網路參與平臺也提案，希望就針孔攝影機能夠來做源頭的管理。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:15:36.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:04.071000+08:00","text":"針孔攝影機一般業者都標榜它是經過NCC的審核，尤其在網路平臺販售，都是經過NCC的審核合格，變成合格就是合法，然後偷拍的風險就由全民來承擔。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:04.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:08.052000+08:00","text":"我想知道NCC是怎麼審查？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:10.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:16.355000+08:00","text":"跟總召報告，針孔攝影機大概分兩大類，一個是無線，一個是有線。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:16.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:21.918000+08:00","text":"無線的部分，它會利用射頻的頻率去傳，這一塊就有NCC的角色……","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:22.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:22.699000+08:00","text":"NCC在管，對不對？對。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:23.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:25.823000+08:00","text":"如果是有線部分，那個是屬於一般商品。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:27.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:33.173000+08:00","text":"即便是無線的話，一般商品在經濟部BSMI標準檢驗局那邊也會有一些處理。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:33.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:47.103000+08:00","text":"如果源頭上要管制，假設全臺灣有共識說這個產品就不要再製造了，如果相關商品的主管機關取得同意說不要製造的話，那我們就會配合。","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:47.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:47.724000+08:00","text":"我想不要把主管機關推到經濟部啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:47.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:48.464000+08:00","text":"最主要有射頻的部分還是在你們這邊嘛！是。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:16:48.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:16:49.725000+08:00","text":"網路平臺的部分，現在販賣、購買都非常地方便。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:17:08.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:17:45.551000+08:00","text":"今天在這邊提出來，是希望包括NCC和數發部能夠針對這樣的無線針孔攝影機在平臺這麼方便的購買、販售，也看到你們審查核可，既然有審議、有審查，兩個部會是不是應該做一些探討、討論，來檢討現在的制度，看能不能反映民意，溯源管理？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:17:46.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:17:51.476000+08:00","text":"這個部分，我想請代理主委跟部長做一些研究，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:17:52.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:17:53.138000+08:00","text":"好，跟總召報告，我這邊沒有問題，我們會找相關部會來討論，看如何來處理。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員清龍","start":"2026-04-22T11:17:53.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T11:17:53.799000+08:00","text":"好，以上，謝謝兩位。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員崇樹","start":"2026-04-22T11:17:54.299000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:17:55.441857+08:00","text":"謝謝總召。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:17:55.741857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:18:00.599000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳清龍總召的發言，謝謝部長跟主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T11:18:00.899000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T11:18:04.041857+08:00","text":"接下來請陳雪生委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}