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12:15:45","會議時間":"2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主管收支部分。（僅詢答）\n二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主管非營業基金－作業基金：（僅詢答）\n（一）國軍退除役官兵安置基金。\n（二）榮民醫療作業基金。\n（4月22日及23日二天一次會））","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":0.45284375,"end":0.52034375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":1.14471875,"end":3.37221875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":4.840343750000001,"end":5.0259687500000005,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":5.0259687500000005,"end":5.34659375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":5.34659375,"end":5.38034375,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":10.98284375,"end":57.67596875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":56.393468750000004,"end":57.659093750000004,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":57.67596875,"end":57.81096875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":57.97971875,"end":73.16721875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":74.66909375,"end":76.30596875,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":76.93034375,"end":106.37721875000001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":80.49096875000001,"end":80.89596875000001,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":107.08596875,"end":116.56971875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":118.08846875,"end":128.33159375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":128.43284375000002,"end":128.44971875000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":128.44971875000002,"end":129.19221875,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":129.14159375,"end":144.32909375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":130.82909375,"end":131.33534375000002,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":145.88159375,"end":146.45534375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":147.26534375,"end":149.03721875000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":149.18909375,"end":152.91846875000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":152.96909375,"end":153.01971875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":153.30659375000002,"end":164.24159375000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":165.43971875,"end":181.94346875000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":182.29784375,"end":188.82846875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":189.01409375,"end":227.16846875000002,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":228.40034375000002,"end":236.09534375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":238.35659375,"end":240.51659375000003,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":240.61784375000002,"end":313.38284375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":313.87221875,"end":316.11659375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":316.53846875,"end":333.34596875,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":333.75096875,"end":340.23096875000005,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":340.68659375000004,"end":354.43971875,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":354.65909375,"end":366.57284375,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":366.89346875,"end":378.18284375,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":378.28409375,"end":440.94096875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":412.47284375000004,"end":412.96221875000003,"speaker_score":0.702},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"陳處長相寶","start":412.96221875000003,"end":413.35034375000004,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":441.66659375,"end":457.56284375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":458.33909375,"end":461.19096875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":461.98409375000006,"end":536.36909375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳委員永康","start":536.36909375,"end":540.165968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麻煩請嚴主委請主委教委好主委好 主委就剛剛葉委員其實他提到的這個部分我們想也呼應一下因為現在我們在這麼多年來其實大家在薪資上面的結構其實也不斷在調整"},{"start":27.597,"end":55.779,"text":"那尤其我們在軍中養成也非常不容易那對於有很多其實可以持續報效我們國家或者相關的這樣子的一個可能自己在學養上面特別專業的部分其實我們政府單位不能不可以好好的去運用他們也很可惜所以就這個部分我們也希望可以據理力爭因為那個天花板真的是不合理就這個部分我們也希望可以謝謝各位"},{"start":58.3,"end":72.989,"text":"那另外我們想要針對這個退府會每年對於所屬單位的交通以及運輸設備我們都會去檢討太儲然後當然也有新增的那我們現在太儲的依據大概是什麼連線或是騎乘"},{"start":76.977,"end":92.426,"text":"就是一般都是依這樣子去看嘛那我們在本席在退伏會公務預算書裡面的公務車輛明細表裡面發現我們在108、109年購置的車輛大概已經規劃在115年要汰換可是我們反觀還有97年、98年購置的車輛還要持續使用這個到底是什麼樣的狀況會有這種現象"},{"start":107.165,"end":108.829,"text":"我們依據行政院規定的啦我們現在看到救護車它的使用年限規定是7年你大概就可以汰換"},{"start":118.134,"end":143.806,"text":"可是我們發現好了在退補會所屬的榮家裡面我現在針對的本期針對的是我們的消防車消防車對救護車救護車就是我們所屬的榮家目前有近16輛的救護車已達到汰換的時限就是已經都超過7年以上而且其中更有2輛已經超過10年為什麼不汰換"},{"start":147.372,"end":163.777,"text":"報告委員好 我是救養處我們目前盤點我們16所農家有26輛那26輛都在10年以下那我們現在就是汰除的基準是以10年還有維修如果說成本過高那我們用這個方式來做汰換"},{"start":165.489,"end":188.299,"text":"可是我們剛剛有提到 就是說超過7年以上你總共有26輛嘛 可是超過7年以上已經有16輛了而且其實像行政院它規定是在7年以上你就必須要汰換 就可以汰換啦衛福部它是訂定相關的規定喔 10年以上一定要汰除掉"},{"start":189.139,"end":201.388,"text":"可是我們有兩輛超過十年了我們也沒有太換啊尤其在這一次你已經有編列相關的預算可是他卻沒有檢討因為為什麼會特別提到這個因為救護車他一輛在屏東一輛在彰化因為救護車是單身第一線救人的任務如果因為太過老舊或者他的零件故障拋錨等等因素而延誤到這些病患的送醫時機後果不堪設想"},{"start":216.718,"end":226.824,"text":"尤其像我們的榮家其實他大概很多都是年紀比較大的這樣子的一個住民所以就這個部分我們為什麼沒有把它納入去考量這個在衛福部救護車車領超過10年這是要強制淘汰的102年已經有相關的規定公告了高委員我們下去立刻檢討辦理"},{"start":240.68,"end":266.57,"text":"好 那就這個部分因為它畢竟是救人的我們看到有很多我們在這一次的預算裡面它有相關的機關 主管管或社區服務組長使用的不管是機車或汽車我們都已經要新購或者要汰換那救護車的部分我們希望馬上可以去檢討去修正 好不好所以我們下去馬上檢討好 謝謝那另外就是要請教"},{"start":269.031,"end":276.456,"text":"主委的就是我們在提升這個失智照顧量能的部分長照萬我園區這是我們今年退府會推動的重要施政的計畫那我們總經費其實從原來的十億一千萬已經調增到十六億八千多萬"},{"start":288.504,"end":310.73,"text":"他調整的那個金額也非常高那騎乘也從109年到112年本來112年全部可能都要完工已經延長到115年那其中可能還是有比如說板橋跟八德甚至要延到116年那目前的狀況現在相關的設備或人員他準備的如何因為可能都很快要完成了嘛"},{"start":316.907,"end":332.164,"text":"報導委員關心的十字園區現在目前就是剛剛趙委員講到一個是八德一個板橋八德是在四月然後板橋到六月然後明年完工然後110年1月啟用"},{"start":333.826,"end":352.483,"text":"那麼到今年3月整體的預算執行率是81那人力方面我們護理人力從今年的1月1號開始行政院核定從委外轉為我們約用總共合了338元這338元是總數338元依據我們暫床率全部都到的話是338元人力但我們現在實際暫床率是80所以"},{"start":361.31,"end":378.068,"text":"目前是257个人那造福人力是2224所以现行的这个造福量能占床率80.4%它是可以满足农家机构照顾的需求可以满足的那后续依占床的状况我们再做调整"},{"start":378.688,"end":384.133,"text":"對不過主委剛剛你現在你剛剛提到的可能是現況可是現況其實已經有一些人力不足的狀況我們先來看看之前我們退府會的報告裡面說明到115年年底退府會各容家總失智總床位會達到1145床"},{"start":400.766,"end":412.672,"text":"這個會是我們全台辦理失智照護最大的專業收容單位因為我們有很多新的或者有擴大擴建的部分那我們的總重數會是我們全台灣收容最多的這樣一個單位可是我們反觀其實我們可能在硬體上面的建制都已經完成了可是我們長期照護最重要的"},{"start":424.899,"end":440.615,"text":"這個重點其實是在人的部分所以我們看到這個容家的照護人力比如說像護理師跟照服員的這個人力要從哪裡來因為你增加了床位然後有這麼大的一個容納量可是我們的人力"},{"start":441.736,"end":460.109,"text":"要從哪裡來我們現在看看剛剛主委有提到就是說我們已經改用約用制度16所農家裡面約用護理師缺員到現在目前為止是近二分之一的有兩家然後近三分之一的有五家"},{"start":462.094,"end":470.441,"text":"少了二分之一的大概有屏東容家跟白河容家然後近三分之一的也有五家有板橋、台北、八德、彰化跟花蓮而且這個需求數在增加當中缺口數也在擴大"},{"start":477.426,"end":487.993,"text":"所以就這個部分我們還是希望我們在整個建制都快要完成的情況之下我們要怎麼樣提升這樣的人力因為我們還是要在十字園區的這個計畫裡面它已經要開始執行那確保相關的人員的穩定性跟品質確保住民要受到照顧的權益跟安全其實這是要一併去考量的那這些人力的缺口數我們現在有什麼做法或想法嗎"},{"start":507.726,"end":536.091,"text":"因為現在很多我們看到像包括種種體系啊或者很多其他的醫院的體系也好或者其他民間的單位或者其他的單位其實在做長照在做這些實質的照顧也好其實他們不管在薪資上面或者在福利上面比如說提供住宿啦或者是很多很多的福利在吸引或者要留這樣子相關的人才那我們有什麼樣的配套措施"},{"start":536.571,"end":558.582,"text":"根據趙委報告我們主要是把薪資待遇能夠做調整能夠提高現在目前轉為約用之後大概護理師跟照護員薪資都有增加大概到3000到4000左右那根據剛剛趙委的指導我們依站床的各農家實際狀況再來吸收招募這些護理師或照護員"},{"start":559.282,"end":585.64,"text":"對 主委我們現在要討論的是我們可能增加的薪資是從原來我們自己的比較上面去調升可是我們相對的還要去跟其他的未來還要跟其他的醫院醫療院所也好或者其他的單位也好其實也要跟他們做比較當我們的福利還有我們的薪資相對來說沒有比人家好的時候我們要留忍就很困難像我剛剛提到的你缺員"},{"start":586.761,"end":606.993,"text":"二分之一三分之一的所在都有那現在你已經又把它擴大這樣子的一個床位數我們要怎麼樣即使去彌補這樣的人力缺口這個可能也我們要一併的去考量的那這個部分也請今天可能沒有辦法很即時的可以提供比較明確的一個做法跟說法會後請提供相關的書面資料怎麼樣去因應這個部分"},{"start":611.836,"end":630.084,"text":"或者去參考人家怎麼樣去做這樣子的一個調整以因應我們在很快的接下來要開始執行的這樣子的一個計畫內容上面不要因為人力的缺口造成我們在執行上面會碰到很多自愛難行的地方好不好是 謝謝召委我們會強化誘因好然後把資料送給召委好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:14.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.384000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請嚴主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.424000+08:00","text":"請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.485000+08:00","text":"召委好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.565000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:15.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:16.445000+08:00","text":"主委，剛剛葉委員提到的這個部分，我們也想呼應一下。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:16.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:05:45.040000+08:00","text":"這麼多年來，其實大家在薪資上面的結構也不斷在調整，尤其我們在軍中養成也非常不容易。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:05:45.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:02.033000+08:00","text":"對於有很多可以持續報效我們國家或者相關的，可能自己在學養上面特別專業的部分，我們政府單位不能好好地去運用他們也很可惜。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:02.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:07.517000+08:00","text":"所以就這個部分，我們也希望可以據理力爭，因為那個天花板真的是不合理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:08.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:09.719000+08:00","text":"就這個部分，我們也希望可以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:09.719000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:12.481000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝召委指導。好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:12.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:23.667000+08:00","text":"另外，退輔會每年對於所屬單位的交通以及運輸設備，我們都會去檢討、汰除，當然也有新增的。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:24.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:26.929000+08:00","text":"我們現在汰除的依據大概是什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:26.929000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:31.938000+08:00","text":"年限或者是期程。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:31.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:33.979000+08:00","text":"一般都是依這樣子去看嗎？是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:06:36.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:06:46.386000+08:00","text":"本席在退輔會公務預算書的公務車輛明細表裡面發現，我們在108、109年購置的車輛已經規劃在115年汰換，可是我們反觀還有97年、98年購置的車輛還要持續使用，到底為什麼會有這樣的狀況？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:01.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:01.506000+08:00","text":"我們是依據行政院規定的啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:01.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:37.806000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到救護車的使用年限，依規定是7年大概就可以汰換，可是我們發現在退輔會所屬的榮家裡面……現在本席針對的是我們的救護車，就是我們所屬的榮家目前有近16輛的救護車已達到汰換的時限，就是已經都超過7年以上，而且其中更有2輛已經超過10年，為什麼不汰換？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳處長相寶","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:41.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:41.692000+08:00","text":"委員好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長相寶","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:41.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:43.413000+08:00","text":"我是就養處。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳處長相寶","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:43.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:49.134000+08:00","text":"目前盤點我們16所榮家有26輛，26輛都在10年以下。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳處長相寶","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:49.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:07:57.777000+08:00","text":"我們現在汰除的基準是以10年，還有維修如果成本過高，我們用這個方式來做汰換。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:07:59.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:15.476000+08:00","text":"可是我們剛剛提到，總共有26輛，可是超過7年以上的已經有16輛了，而且行政院規定是在7年以上就可以汰換。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:16.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:26.341000+08:00","text":"衛福部訂定了相關規定，10年以上一定要汰除掉，可是我們有2輛超過10年了，也沒有汰換啊！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:26.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:30.604000+08:00","text":"尤其在這一次你已經有編列相關的預算，可是它卻沒有檢討。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:31.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:32.305000+08:00","text":"為什麼會特別提到這個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:32.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:32.726000+08:00","text":"它一輛在屏東，一輛在彰化。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:32.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:35.368000+08:00","text":"救護車是擔任第一線救人的任務，如果因為太過老舊或者它的零件故障、拋錨等等因素，而延誤到這些病患的送醫時機，後果不堪設想。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:50.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:56.962000+08:00","text":"尤其像我們的榮家，大概很多都是年紀比較大的住民。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:57.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:08:59.283000+08:00","text":"所以就這個部分，我們為什麼沒有把它納入去考量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:08:59.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:00.003000+08:00","text":"在衛福部，救護車車齡超過10年是要強制淘汰的哦！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:00.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:00.424000+08:00","text":"102年已經有相關的規定公告了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳處長相寶","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:00.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:00.804000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們下去立刻檢討辦理。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:14.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:17.241000+08:00","text":"好，因為它畢竟是救人的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:17.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:31.627000+08:00","text":"在這次的預算裡面，我們看到有很多相關的機關、主官（管）或社區服務組長使用的，不管是機車或汽車，都已經要新購或者要汰換了。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:31.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:37.049000+08:00","text":"那救護車的部分，我們希望馬上可以去檢討、去修正好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:37.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:37.909000+08:00","text":"我們下去馬上檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:37.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:38.889000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:39.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:09:48.615000+08:00","text":"另外要請教主委，就是我們在提升失智照顧量能的部分，長照忘我園區是近年退輔會推動的重要施政計畫。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:09:48.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:04.525000+08:00","text":"總經費從原來的10億1,000萬元，已經調增到十六億八千多萬元，調增的金額也非常高。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:05.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:20.949000+08:00","text":"期程也從109年到112年，本來112年全部都要完工，已經延長到115年，其中比如板橋跟八德甚至要延到116年。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:22.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:23.909000+08:00","text":"目前的狀況，以及相關的設備或人員準備得如何？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:23.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:24.710000+08:00","text":"因為可能很快要完成了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:30.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:40.037000+08:00","text":"委員關心的失智園區，就是剛剛召委講的，一個是八德，一個是板橋。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:40.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:42.941000+08:00","text":"八德是在4月，然後板橋到6月……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:42.941000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:44.242000+08:00","text":"今年嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:44.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:10:51.870000+08:00","text":"明年完工，117年1月啟用，到今年3月整體的預算執行率是80%。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:10:53.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:03.900000+08:00","text":"人力方面，我們護理人力從今年的1月1號開始，行政院核定從委外轉為約用，總共核了338人，338人是總數。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:16.812000+08:00","text":"依據我們占床率全部都到的話，是338人，但我們現在實際的占床率是80%，所以目前是257個人。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:17.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:28.564000+08:00","text":"照服人力是2,224人，依現行的照服量能，占床率80.4%，它是可以滿足榮家機構照顧的需求。","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:30.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:32.688000+08:00","text":"後續依占床的狀況，我們再做調整。對。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:32.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:36.612000+08:00","text":"不過，主委你剛剛提到的可能是現況，可是現況其實已經有一些人力不足的狀況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:36.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:11:58.848000+08:00","text":"我們先來看看，之前退輔會的報告裡面說明，到115年年底，退輔會各榮家失智總床位會達到1,145床，這會是我們全臺辦理失智照護最大的專業收容單位。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:11:59.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:04.371000+08:00","text":"因為我們有很多新的，或者有擴大、擴建的部分，所以我們的總床數會是我們全臺灣收容最多的單位。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:04.371000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:05.371000+08:00","text":"最大量的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:04.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:20.640000+08:00","text":"我們反觀一下，可能在硬體上面的建置都已經完成了，可是我們長期照護最重要的重點其實是在人的部分。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:21.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:29.390000+08:00","text":"所以我們看到榮家的照護人力，比如說像護理師跟照服員的人力要從哪裡來？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:29.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:36.837000+08:00","text":"因為你增加了床位，然後有這麼大的容納量，可是我們的人力要從哪裡來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:39.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:12:42.381000+08:00","text":"剛剛主委有提到，就是我們已經改用約用制度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:12:43.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:04.421000+08:00","text":"16所榮家裡面，約用護理師缺員，到目前為止近二分之一的有2家；近三分之一的有5家；少於二分之一的大概有屏東榮家跟白河榮家；然後近三分之一的也有5家，有板橋、臺北、八德、彰化跟花蓮，而且需求數在增加當中，缺口數也在擴大。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:11.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:18.231000+08:00","text":"所以就這個部分，在整個建置都快要完成的情況之下，我們要怎麼樣提升這樣的人力？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:18.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:20.552000+08:00","text":"因為在這個失智園區的計畫裡面，它已經要開始執行，確保相關人員的穩定性跟品質、確保住民要受到照顧的權益跟安全，其實這是要一併去考量的。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:20.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:13:21.993000+08:00","text":"這些人力的缺口數，我們現在有什麼做法或想法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:13:42.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:07.751000+08:00","text":"現在我們看到，很多包括榮總體系，或者很多其他醫院的體系也好，或者其他民間的單位或其他的單位，其實在做長照，或在做這些實質的照顧也好，不管在薪資上面或者在福利上面，比如說提供住宿或者是很多的福利，都是在吸引或者要留住這樣子相關的人才。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:08.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:10.071000+08:00","text":"那我們有什麼樣的配套措施？","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:11.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:14.993000+08:00","text":"跟召委報告，我們主要是把薪資待遇能夠做調整、能夠提高。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:15.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:22.277000+08:00","text":"現在轉為約用之後，大概護理師跟照服員的薪資都有增加，大概到3,000到4,000左右。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:23.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:33.282000+08:00","text":"根據剛剛召委的指導，我們依占床的各榮家實際狀況，再來吸收、招募護理師或照服員。對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:33.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:52.055000+08:00","text":"主委，我們現在要討論的是，我們可能增加的薪資是從原來我們自己的比較上面去調升，可是我們未來還要跟其他的醫院、醫療院所，或者其他的單位做比較。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:52.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:14:58.319000+08:00","text":"當我們的福利還有我們的薪資相對來說沒有比人家好的時候，我們要留人就很困難。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:14:58.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:13.309000+08:00","text":"像我剛剛提到的，你缺員二分之一、三分之一的所在都有，現在你又已經把它擴大這樣的床位數，我們要怎麼樣即時去彌補這樣的人力缺口，這個可能我們也要一併地去考量。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:14.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:36.100000+08:00","text":"有關這個部分，今天可能沒有辦法很即時地提供比較明確的做法跟說法，會後請提供相關的書面資料：包括怎麼樣去因應這個部分，或者去參考人家怎麼樣去做這樣的調整，以因應我們在很快接下來要開始執行的計畫內容上面。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:36.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:42.223000+08:00","text":"不要因為人力的缺口，造成我們在執行上面會碰到很多窒礙難行的地方，好不好？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:42.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:44.044000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝召委，我們會強化誘因，然後把資料送給召委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:44.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:44.084000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:44.584000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:45.726857+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:46.026857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:48.598286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員，謝謝主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:48.898286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:15:56.041143+08:00","text":"已登記質詢委員除不在場外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:15:56.341143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:16:05.198286+08:00","text":"本日會議有陳永康委員、邱志偉委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:16:05.498286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:16:15.498286+08:00","text":"委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，請退輔會兩週內以書面答復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T12:16:15.798286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T12:16:19.226857+08:00","text":"委員有指定期限者，從其所定。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}