{"error":false,"id":["168762"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168762,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168762","日期":"2026-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-22T13:26:39+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-22T13:45:50+08:00","影片長度":"00:19:11","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5b5880b40c5769f1086fb835ff61ef53f38d440c98c629e733d97b8fcc150d1c9240d0f21f4d974d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"13:26:39 - 13:45:50","會議時間":"2026-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請環境部部長、國家科學及技術委員會、交通部、經濟部、內政部、農業部、衛生福利部、國家發展委員會就「我國氣候變遷調適現況檢討與全球調適目標接軌之推動情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部主管預算案。(公務及非營業特種基金預算案)\n三、審查中華民國115年度中央政府總預算案直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款環境部主管部分預算。\n四、審查環境部函送財團法人環境資源研究發展基金會等4家財團法人115年度預算書案。\n\n【預算案僅詢答，115年4月30日下午5時截止收案】\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】\n\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":6.8990937500000005,"end":11.35409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":14.796593750000003,"end":15.606593750000002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":16.11284375,"end":45.57659375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":45.99846875,"end":104.94284375000001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":106.20846875000001,"end":112.57034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":113.11034375000001,"end":172.13909375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":172.69596875000002,"end":219.72659375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":220.11471875,"end":227.05034375000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":227.35409375,"end":227.94471875000002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":229.44659375,"end":238.76159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":239.13284375,"end":270.35159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":270.94221875,"end":289.60596875000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":289.94346875,"end":294.38159375000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":294.82034375,"end":300.89534375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":301.21596875,"end":304.89471875000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":305.77221875000004,"end":308.10096875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":308.64096875,"end":313.82159375000003,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":313.95659375,"end":326.57909375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":327.30471875,"end":332.83971875000003,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":333.91971875,"end":343.48784375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":343.69034375,"end":346.27221875000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":346.84596875,"end":365.93159375000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":366.13409375000003,"end":370.62284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":370.21784375000004,"end":373.18784375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":373.18784375,"end":375.55034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":375.83721875000003,"end":386.31659375000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":386.51909375,"end":406.60034375000004,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":405.45284375,"end":407.37659375000004,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":407.25846875,"end":407.95034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":407.68034375,"end":412.77659375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":412.74284375,"end":419.47596875000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":418.54784375,"end":420.18471875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":420.10034375000004,"end":421.51784375000005,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":422.73284375000003,"end":435.59159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":435.59159375,"end":438.98346875000004,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":438.57846875,"end":441.83534375000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":441.61596875000004,"end":475.14659375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":475.39971875000003,"end":480.22596875000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":480.22596875000005,"end":485.13659375000003,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":480.24284375,"end":480.25971875000005,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":484.56284375,"end":532.5047187499999,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":485.49096875000004,"end":486.18284375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":532.7747187500001,"end":616.0022187500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":614.7365937500001,"end":631.12221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":630.1940937500001,"end":632.5734687500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":632.79284375,"end":634.93596875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":634.04159375,"end":635.1047187500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":635.1047187500001,"end":635.30721875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":635.30721875,"end":636.03284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":636.03284375,"end":638.9184687500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":636.15096875,"end":636.6740937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":638.73284375,"end":646.5290937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":641.0278437500001,"end":641.07846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":646.5290937500001,"end":646.6809687500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":647.15346875,"end":648.0984687499999,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":647.2209687500001,"end":657.70034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":657.2109687500001,"end":664.2140937500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":664.04534375,"end":664.99034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":664.99034375,"end":666.72846875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":665.04096875,"end":690.4209687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":667.28534375,"end":668.9053437500002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":690.8259687500001,"end":700.4109687499999,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":699.73596875,"end":700.9678437500002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":700.9678437500002,"end":702.0478437500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":702.2165937500001,"end":710.3334687500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":711.1772187500001,"end":719.3953437499999,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":720.39096875,"end":729.6215937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":730.3640937499999,"end":731.95034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":732.23721875,"end":736.3884687500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":736.89471875,"end":740.92784375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":740.6072187500001,"end":743.5603437500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":742.78409375,"end":747.59346875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":748.3022187500001,"end":749.50034375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":749.68596875,"end":801.0365937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":801.3572187500001,"end":805.06971875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":805.81221875,"end":807.34784375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":808.2590937500001,"end":835.02284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":835.5459687500002,"end":847.66221875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":837.16596875,"end":837.4865937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":846.39659375,"end":850.1259687500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":850.1259687500001,"end":850.48034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":850.48034375,"end":850.51409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":850.51409375,"end":850.53096875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":850.66596875,"end":851.8640937500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":852.60659375,"end":854.68221875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":854.86784375,"end":860.1328437500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":860.1328437500001,"end":874.3415937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":875.3372187500001,"end":906.1172187500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":906.6740937500001,"end":908.7665937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":909.55971875,"end":936.0365937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":936.44159375,"end":937.8928437500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":938.2134687500002,"end":940.52534375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":940.89659375,"end":942.9384687500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":944.2378437500001,"end":956.79284375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":957.4340937500001,"end":976.4353437500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":976.4353437500001,"end":984.50159375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":980.2153437500001,"end":980.6709687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":984.4172187500001,"end":1027.98846875,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1028.4947187500002,"end":1031.68409375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1032.1734687500002,"end":1038.4847187500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1038.95721875,"end":1040.8809687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1041.6909687500001,"end":1067.9990937500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1068.48846875,"end":1083.7265937500001,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1084.26659375,"end":1125.5597187500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1125.5597187500002,"end":1125.61034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1125.61034375,"end":1125.6609687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1125.6609687500002,"end":1125.6947187500002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1125.6947187500002,"end":1125.7959687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1125.7959687500002,"end":1125.9309687500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1125.9309687500001,"end":1126.0828437500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1126.01534375,"end":1126.3697187500002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1126.70721875,"end":1126.72409375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1126.72409375,"end":1128.95159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1126.74096875,"end":1127.71971875,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1128.95159375,"end":1141.3884687500001,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1138.41846875,"end":1139.9034687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1140.7472187500002,"end":1143.4134687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1143.44721875,"end":1147.7672187500002,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1146.6365937500002,"end":1146.6534687500002,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1147.69971875,"end":1148.93159375,"speaker_score":0.976},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"彭部長啓明","start":1148.5603437500001,"end":1149.91034375,"speaker_score":0.975},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1150.7034687500002,"end":1152.0872187500001,"speaker_score":0.976}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.923,"end":11.285,"text":"好 謝謝朝委 是不是請我們這個彭部長有請彭部長李委員好部長好 我今天要來談這個氣候變遷調適裡面的高溫高溫的這個問題從國際到台灣現實面大家都看得很清楚"},{"start":31.132,"end":55.066,"text":"它也不是單純的天氣熱它還包含了公共衛生、勞動安全、城市治理還有能源負擔更重要的還關係到社會不平等交制的複合風險所以這個風險是非常的複合式的那世界衛生組織也指出這個熱的健康衝擊是可預測的"},{"start":56.827,"end":63.911,"text":"且在很大的程度上是可預防的但是呢我們看到WHO在2000到2019年20年間有48.9萬人死於熱相關的原因那亞洲占了45%所以在亞洲裡面因為熱高溫這個調適上的問題這個危害的風險可能更勝於其他的國家的"},{"start":84.964,"end":97.387,"text":"而且現在大家都知道65歲以上的族群的熱相關的死亡率相較於2000年代的初期已經很顯著的在上升那世界氣象組織則確認2024年是175年有觀測記錄以來最熱的一年"},{"start":106.26,"end":127.008,"text":"那我們的國家災害防救中心TCCIP已經指出1910到2020年間6個有百年監測站有歷史的這6個裡面夏季平均最高溫和高溫指標天數整體都上升"},{"start":128.369,"end":142.76,"text":"那極端高溫的事件的等級頻率面積還有持續的天數都非常明顯的在增加那高溫盛行的季節還出現提早發生延後結束的趨勢"},{"start":144.221,"end":169.393,"text":"那如果全球暖化持續升高三度的話極端高溫的強度跟持續時間大概可以達到兩度C暖化情境的兩倍提高三度是兩度的不是一增加一度是兩倍換句話說不是今年比較熱而已而是高溫風險本身正在重寫台灣的季節結構還有風險的分布"},{"start":172.754,"end":179.457,"text":"可是就是說這也不是一個抽象的概念因為大家都知道這個國建署也經常在講這個熱傷害熱危害那事實上WHO跟WMO他們在2025年也發布了一些報告"},{"start":191.483,"end":209.566,"text":"極端高溫對室內還有對戶外的工作者都是顯著的風險所以熱傷害不是只發生在戶外室內的悶熱的環境長者慢性疾病行動不便通通都是高風險的族群所以在這種狀況裡面全球24億的勞工71%的勞動人口都暴露在過熱的風險當中那偏偏"},{"start":220.708,"end":227.474,"text":"氣候變遷因應法他在這個地方的主管機關就是你們"},{"start":229.525,"end":249.759,"text":"所以這個環境部他不是旁觀者而是這一套體系你必須去整合的整合者主管機關就是你們那你們重點這個這樣還不夠是你自己也明顯的你們就自己揭示了你們也公開承諾了"},{"start":251.46,"end":270.001,"text":"你們的公開承諾就是說有一個抗高溫調適專區你們抗高溫有一個調適行動的路徑你們告訴大家說我們有兩項制度 兩項方法 兩項拓展"},{"start":271.002,"end":293.563,"text":"所以在去年 你們建立了共通性的高溫指標要建立這個 根據共通性高溫指標要啟動跨部會 跨層級的抗高溫應變機制你們去年這樣對大家講說 我要做這些這些"},{"start":295.004,"end":297.57,"text":"所以你們也找了 找雙北去試辦高溫調適的對策演練試辦裡面 你們也建置了cool map"},{"start":305.859,"end":332.471,"text":"你們的涼爽地圖啦那你們也訂了115年研擬企業抗高溫行動指引那你們也跟台南市合作了以跨部會資料串聯的辨識能源弱勢能源弱勢的老人 譬如說啦中低收入戶 欠電的啦 不敢開的啦獨居的老人啦 等等啦所以你們去辨識誰是能源弱勢嘛"},{"start":333.973,"end":342.839,"text":"而且你們說我們未來要建立常態性的資料你們要去更新警示通報評估機制你們也講說這個台灣對颱風已經有完整的應變機制但是對熱浪還沒有所以你們要整合去你自己說"},{"start":354.446,"end":372.92,"text":"我要去整合氣象署 勞動部 衛福部既有的資訊做起要建立共通性高溫指標共通性高溫指標而且要事半調適演練這個都是你們自己說的博定你知道嗎是啊 就是我們去年有在做這些工作"},{"start":373.44,"end":388.458,"text":"現在你說行動先行制度建構第二科學後援要打造全台高溫韌性網路你們的共通性高溫指標出來了嗎目前我們是有三個指標勞動部一個"},{"start":389.659,"end":412.57,"text":"然後中研院WGBT一個還有一個氣象署的這個熱的指標那因為氣象署的那個溫度雖然沒有考慮到濕度但是他有體感所以相對的是直接的所以目前我們的那個指標大家的共同意見因為各部位還是有他自己原來現在還是三個啦那你講要建立一個共通性的高溫指標還沒建立好"},{"start":413.05,"end":437.704,"text":"基本上我們出來的時候一個溫度出來都有三個都在那個地方因為這三個意義不大一樣所以就這樣建制完成了還沒有還沒有還沒有所以你們的共同性高溫指標的文本你們還沒有對外公告那分級的架構啟動的門檻跨部會的責任表那你們還沒有你現在是還在什麼狀況包委員這個要一步一步來因為這個"},{"start":438.544,"end":460.894,"text":"跟符合你們自己的期程嗎?建制的期程嗎?因為這個東西是配合我們國家的調適行動綱領的計畫每四年一次所以我們原來的這個是今年年底結束所以我們現在要把高溫列入明年開始啟動的所以目前我們這兩次我都是拿這個嚴重高溫的樣態來做延煉我們到底缺了什麼?"},{"start":461.394,"end":474.97,"text":"所以也不瞞各位委員說其實這個調試很多都是一個概念真的要做的時候發現沒有在做所以我們用新的方法特別針對高溫用一些方法來測試大概所有部會可以融合到什麼程度"},{"start":475.621,"end":484.166,"text":"對啊那所以你意思是說到年底以前應該就會訂出來我們現在今年針對今年的夏天也會開始演練例如說演練到40度我要提醒部長這個事情不是只有高溫的燈號現在你要做的是調適治理那就不是把氣象的燈號或者是再加上一個濕度來當成治理的目標而是要回答我們"},{"start":503.456,"end":516.86,"text":"健康 勞動 教育都市空間 交通 社福等不同領域是不是需要不同的啟動門檻跟應變的邏輯否則同樣一個38度C對工地勞工 對長照機構 對學校對能源弱勢的獨居的長者對都市熱島區的意義根本都不一樣那根據英國的熱健康警報他就"},{"start":532.924,"end":560.013,"text":"它就不是一個單純的氣象警報他們英國健康安全局跟氣象局他們就共同運作一個天氣健康警報系統提供健康和社會照顧相關的部門使用英國政府的不良天氣跟健康計畫這個明確的指出這一套的天氣健康警報是該計畫的核心支柱之一那據此"},{"start":560.393,"end":584.792,"text":"去推動各級架構在服務提供能力培養早期預警和資料分析等面向的常態工作所以這個架構之下英國健康安全署每年發布熱相關的死亡報告監測把極端高溫期間的超額死亡統計對天氣跟健康的衝擊分析納入例行性的監測跟政策這個"},{"start":586.713,"end":607.385,"text":"作業所以這個做法的重點就不是說告訴大家說今天冷熱溼度有多高溫度有多高而是要驅動醫療照護要驅動社會福利地方政府和社區網路要及早啟動行動要透過制度化的監測跟資料分析然後最重點是要開始"},{"start":609.046,"end":630.883,"text":"進行這一些調整這一些行動策略那你們還沒有還在跨機關的討論其實我們已經啟動一個研究計畫我們找中研院的團隊然後運用衛福部的健保數據庫然後實際上的溫度會產生多大的健康的衝擊從健保資料庫拿到更科學的這個證據不然的話到底要幾度有什麼辦法我們已經啟動研究研究然後"},{"start":637.248,"end":643.716,"text":"對我們要從數據才能夠數據然後研究嘛那我們現在期待是看到你調適政策調適計畫調適行動出來是你現在談不上調適的政策和調適的"},{"start":652.506,"end":668.123,"text":"計畫你也沒有去整合各部位整個調適的行動綱領要怎麼行動我們現在最上位例如說我們的溫度幾度對於我們每一個年齡的國人有什麼樣的衝擊這是基本研究而已我們目前連這個都沒有這個是基本研究我們國家連這個都沒有但是我們講的是說你其實有在做啊"},{"start":672.728,"end":687.725,"text":"你們有一個抗高溫調適專區嘛然後你們去年首度試辦了114年度抗高溫調適對策演練喔有啦 你有在做你去找各部會 中央部會16個單位 16個部會"},{"start":690.968,"end":705.097,"text":"然後找了台北市新北市參與地方政府兩個地方政府那你們做了一個調適對策的演練你知道嗎演練是我有參加你有參加喔可是這演練就是閉門會議301301會議是聯合演練看到你們的演練情形就是參與單位16個中央部會兩個地方政府然後開一個會腳本式的桌上推演"},{"start":720.461,"end":747.219,"text":"然後不是真正的拿測試制度是否可操作的是否為可操作的壓力測試型演練啊你們就自己說這個桌上談兵啦然後有腳本當然有長官致詞合照啦灑水車照相做新聞稿啦但是我們很難看得出來就是說我們第一次啦這是第一次這樣做你們是把既有的業務跟宣導措施然後大家流水"},{"start":748.54,"end":770.753,"text":"報告一次啊大家各部會各地方政府流水洗次的報告一次啊那就花了兩個小時了三個小時了啦但真正的演練不是這樣子我們希望你看出說透過演練要驗證各個部會哪些跨部會的應變機制是有缺失的那要測試這一些制度的斷點是什麼所以"},{"start":772.734,"end":795.01,"text":"在這種狀況裡面要形成正式的高溫應變的SOP那在這種演練以後要產出完整的檢討報告缺失清單改善時程責任分工你們就是這樣子演練其實你們那個應該是大家討論可是你把它叫成演練了所以我們看起來你就像是在跨部會的在有一個應變的機制的"},{"start":800.049,"end":806.296,"text":"原模擬可是看起來不是各自報告各自的業務作業所以在這種狀況裡面"},{"start":808.328,"end":834.531,"text":"其實是沒有辦法測出真正的制度的問題這個資訊的傳遞有沒有延遲地方政府的執行有沒有落差你的糧食點是不是有足夠你能源脆弱或是一般普通脆弱的族群名單是不是完整跨部會的選擇是不是清楚地方跟中央的啟動條件是不是一致 有嗎"},{"start":835.792,"end":849.621,"text":"這個一步一步來啦那個是我們第一次這樣做而且只針對38我本來要求要40度啦但是目前呢我相信這個第一次之後今年我們在演練的時候會更加明確台灣曾經出現過40度的地方在哪裡雙北"},{"start":852.699,"end":871.475,"text":"所以現在你只演練雙北其實未來的六都都有可能有機會啦那其實事實上未來我們會但我是要告訴你說相對全台灣的其他各地方其實雙北的行政量能是比較高的資源也比較多的公共設施也比較完整的所以他的熱浪應變的基礎應該也會"},{"start":875.37,"end":878.454,"text":"比較相對有能力的那資源比較少的熱風險類型不同的人口結構比較脆弱的老人可能比較多的可能是農業縣市的沿海工業區的原鄉的高齡比例比較高的地區可能才更需要你們啦"},{"start":892.611,"end":908.281,"text":"所以應該以後是要納入這一些那你的cool mapcool map你的治理工具它很像只是一個資訊平台你要告訴大家說如果你很熱熱浪來襲我有一個cool map這cool map它的"},{"start":910.323,"end":935.064,"text":"首波整合的雙北還有台南2400個糧食點提供500公尺內的糧食點查詢包含戶外有遮蔭降溫的這個設施室內有涼爽簡單來講就是冷氣啦有座位啦有冷氣有飲用水你們自己寫的有廁所啦有無障礙設施的而且大部分都是便利商店啦還有公部門的場所"},{"start":936.525,"end":942.696,"text":"但是我的意思是說其實住在家的人可能比你更知道家裡有冷氣不用洗的啦"},{"start":944.395,"end":968.846,"text":"你用這個cool map 那個意義 它要沖下啦你的cool map 應該是要成為一種治理的工具它不是打開地圖找哪裡有冷氣它比較像是資訊服務如果它連結的 應該是有地方高溫的應變避暑空間的開放 脆弱族群的主動關懷社福的轉介 避暑動線的規劃"},{"start":971.067,"end":989.311,"text":"讓它成為一種治理的工具而不是說看哪裡有冷氣有廁所一步一步來啦因為我們針對南部也有針對老人獨有獨居長者作行測試我們目標就是未來要把這個全面連結在一起對啦所以我現在建議你說你要跟地方政府的高溫應變計畫社福長照的系統李林的關懷網絡整合"},{"start":994.352,"end":998.356,"text":"那在統計 你在使用上要統計人次導流的成效區域的落差 合作據點的開放率要盤點高風險行政區但仍缺乏足夠的糧食點的要去把它建構出來要不然這裡就只是一個cool map應該是比較可惜啦那跨部會去搜尋"},{"start":1015.971,"end":1040.502,"text":"需要優先幫忙的對象辨識能源的弱勢然後減輕能源支出負擔優先設置這個避暑的地點應該是這樣子去做才是比較好的cool map那在這裡其實我是要跟你講說因為這一些就剛好氣候變遷因應法這裡面講得很清楚"},{"start":1041.741,"end":1065.514,"text":"第17條第8款政府應強化脆弱群體因應氣候變遷衝擊的能力而這個就是環境部的法定的責任所以你們公布的氣候變遷風險評估的作業準則也把危害度然後暴露度脆弱度高風險地區調適的差距都納入了制度了所以民間團體也點出說這個"},{"start":1068.596,"end":1083.123,"text":"高溫調適論壇裡面講說老舊城區綠地錯置居住條件不良跟社會弱勢正在讓部分地區變成高溫調適這個高溫調適的孤島啦所以有些"},{"start":1084.324,"end":1089.328,"text":"高溫狀況裡面牽扯到很多的社會不平等真的是所以你看起來熱危害其實也有社會不平等的成分在裡面而這個社會不平等就是政府要去做把這個社會不平等資源的弱勢的然後健康的弱勢的或者是說別無選擇的那個政府的資源和能力介入進去把這個社會不平等差距縮小"},{"start":1113.925,"end":1128.441,"text":"那讓這個高溫危害的地區高溫危害的高風險的族群他們透過政府資源的介入可以把這個不平等差距縮小這個是很重要的如果照去年做的是不夠的"},{"start":1129.402,"end":1149.277,"text":"這個要連結起來啦那也跟委員報告因為過去這個調適的經費在政府裡面是真的沒有特別去匡列人員也不夠現在開始要了對對對你今年編的預算增長多少碳費有啦碳費未來會來做調適以前都真的都沒有啦好OK好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝林淑芬委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:26:46.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:26:46.743000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:26:47.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:26:48.504000+08:00","text":"是不是請彭部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T13:26:48.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:26:48.904000+08:00","text":"有請彭部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:26:48.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:26:48.944000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:26:48.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:26:49.104000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:26:49.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:27:29.423000+08:00","text":"今天我要談的是氣候變遷調適中的高溫問題，從國際到臺灣的現實面，大家都看得很清楚，並不是單純的天氣熱，還包含了公共衛生、勞動安全、城市治理及能源負擔，更重要的是關係到社會不平等交織的複合風險，所以這個風險是非常複合式的。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:27:30.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:27:42.711000+08:00","text":"世界衛生組織也指出，熱的健康衝擊是可預測的，且在很大的程度上是可預防的，但是，我們看到WHO公布2000年到2019年的20年間有48.9萬人死於熱的相關原因，其中亞洲占了45%，所以在亞洲因為熱高溫調適問題造成的危害風險可能更勝於其他地區。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:28:04.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:28:13.646000+08:00","text":"大家也都知道65歲以上族群與熱相關的死亡率相較於2000年代初期已經有很顯著的上升。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:28:15.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:28:16.367000+08:00","text":"世界氣象組織則確認2024年是175年有觀測紀錄以來最熱的一年。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:28:25.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:28:45.988000+08:00","text":"我們的國家災害防救中心TCCIP已經指出，1910年到2020年間，根據6個有百年歷史監測站的監測，夏季平均最高溫與高溫指標天數整體都有上升。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:28:48.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:29:01.760000+08:00","text":"極端高溫事件的等級、頻率、面積與持續的天數也都非常明顯地增加，高溫盛行的季節還出現提早發生、延後結束的趨勢。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:29:03.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:29:28.373000+08:00","text":"如果全球暖化持續增高3度的話，極端高溫的強度與持續時間大概可以達到2度C暖化情境的2倍，提高3度是2倍，換句話說，不是今年比較熱而已，而是高溫風險本身正在重寫臺灣的季節結構及風險的分布。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:29:32.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:30:08.446000+08:00","text":"這也不是一個抽象的概念，大家都知道國健署經常講熱傷害、熱危害，事實上，WHO與WMO在2025年也發布了一些報告，極端高溫對室內及戶外的工作者都是顯著的風險，因此，熱傷害不是只發生在戶外，處於室內悶熱的環境、慢性疾病、長者及行動不便者通通都是高風險族群，在這種狀況下，全球24億的勞工、71%的勞動人口都暴露在過熱的風險當中。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:30:08.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:30:48.739000+08:00","text":"偏偏、偏偏氣候變遷因應法在這個地方的主管機關就是你們，所以環境部不是旁觀者，而是在這套體系中必須去整合的整合者，主管機關就是你們，而且你們也明顯的自己揭示了、你們也公開承諾了！","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:30:50.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:31:02.173000+08:00","text":"你們公開承諾有一個抗高溫調適專區，你們的抗高溫有一個調適行動路徑。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:31:02.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:31:28.039000+08:00","text":"你們告訴大家有2項制度、2項方法、2項拓展，所以在去年你們建立了共通性的高溫指標，根據共通性高溫指標要啟動跨部會、跨層級的抗高溫應變機制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:31:29.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:31:46.480000+08:00","text":"你們去年對大家說要做這些、這些，於是你們找了雙北試辦高溫調適對策演練，在試辦中也建置了Cool Map，涼爽地圖。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:31:48.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:32:11.451000+08:00","text":"此外，你們也訂了115年研擬企業抗高溫行動指引，也與臺南市合作跨部會資料串聯，辨識能源弱勢的老人，對於那些中低收入戶、省電捨不得開的、獨居老人等等，你們要辯識誰是能源弱勢嘛！","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:32:12.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:32:49.078000+08:00","text":"而且你們說未來要建立常態性的資料，要更新、警示通報、評估機制，你們也說臺灣對颱風已經有完整的應變機制，但是對於熱浪還沒有做法，所以你自己說要整合氣象署、勞動部、衛福部既有的資訊，建立共通性高溫指標，而且要試辦調適演練，這個都是你們自己說的，部長，你知道吧？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:32:49.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:32:51.900000+08:00","text":"是，去年我們有做這些工作。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:32:52.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:05.796000+08:00","text":"現在你們說行動先行，制度建構第二，科學後援，要打造全臺高溫韌性網路，你們的共通性高溫指標出來了嗎？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:05.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:13.321000+08:00","text":"目前我們有3個指標，勞動部有1個、中研院WBGT有1個，還有1個是氣象署的熱指標。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:13.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:19.804000+08:00","text":"雖然氣象署的溫度沒有考慮到濕度，但是它有體感，所以相對是直接的。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:20.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:24.827000+08:00","text":"目前大家對於指標的共同意見，因為各部會還是有自己原來的……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:24.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:26.007000+08:00","text":"現在還是3個啦！對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:26.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:31.550000+08:00","text":"你說要建立一個共通性高溫指標，還沒建立好？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:32.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:38.294000+08:00","text":"基本上，我們一個溫度出來，三個都在那個地方，因為這三個的意義不大一樣。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:38.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:39.174000+08:00","text":"這樣就建置完成了？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:39.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:40.235000+08:00","text":"還沒有、還沒有、還沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:42.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:54.803000+08:00","text":"你們的共通性高溫指標文本還沒有對外公告，分級的架構、啟動的門檻、跨部會的責任表，你們現在是什麼狀況？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:54.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:56.704000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個就要一步一步來，因為高溫……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:33:57.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:33:59.585000+08:00","text":"符合你們自己建置的期程嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:34:01.026000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:34:19.894000+08:00","text":"因為這個東西是配合國家調適行動綱領的計畫，每4年一次，我們原來的是在今年年底結束，現在要把高溫列入明年開始啟動的部分，目前這兩次我都是拿嚴重高溫的樣態來演練我們到底缺了什麼。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:34:20.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:34:34.621000+08:00","text":"也不瞞各位委員，其實這個調適有很多都是一個概念，真的要做時會發現很多都沒有在做，所以我們用新的方法，特別針對高溫用一些方法測試，所有部會大概可以融合到什麼程度。對啊！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:34:35.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:34:37.503000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是到年底之前應該就會訂出來？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:34:37.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:34:39.284000+08:00","text":"我們今年的夏天也會開始演練，譬如演練到40度。演練？是。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:34:39.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:35:11.298000+08:00","text":"我要提醒部長，這個事情不是只有高溫的燈號，現在你要做的是調適治理，那就不是把氣象的燈號或者再加上一個濕度當成治理的目標，而是要回答我們，健康、勞動、教育、都市空間、交通及社福等不同領域，是不是需要不同的啟動門檻及應變的邏輯？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:35:11.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:35:14.899000+08:00","text":"否則，同樣一個38度C，對工地勞工、對長照機構、對學校、對能源弱勢的獨居長者、對都市熱島區的意義根本都不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:35:15.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:35:45.749000+08:00","text":"英國的熱健康警報就不是一個單純的氣象警報，英國健康安全局與氣象局共同運作一個天氣健康警報系統，提供健康與社會照顧相關部門使用。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:35:46.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:36:07.019000+08:00","text":"英國政府的不良天氣與健康計畫明確指出，這套天氣健康警報是該計畫的核心支柱之一，據此去推動各級架構，在服務提供、能力培養、早期預警及資料分析等面向的常態工作。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:36:08.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:36:26.534000+08:00","text":"因此，在這個架構之下，英國健康安全署每年發布熱相關的死亡報告監測，極端高溫期間的超額死亡統計，對天氣與健康的衝擊分析，納入例行性的監測與政策作業。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:36:26.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:36:50.848000+08:00","text":"這個做法的重點不是告訴大家今天很熱、濕度有多高、溫度有多高，而是要驅動醫療照護、社會福利，地方政府與社區網路要及早啟動、行動，透過制度化監測與資料分析，最重要的是要開始調整這些行動策略。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:36:52.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:36:54.751000+08:00","text":"你們沒有，你們還在跨機關的討論？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:36:54.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:09.383000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實我們已經啟動一個研究計畫，找中研院的團隊，運用衛福部的健保數據庫，實際上的溫度會產生多大的健康衝擊，從健保資料庫拿到更科學的證據，不然的話，到底要幾度、用什麼方法……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:09.383000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:10.383000+08:00","text":"但你們現在就還在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:09.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:09.563000+08:00","text":"我們已經啟動研究了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:09.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:09.863000+08:00","text":"研究、研究，然後……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:16.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:17.750000+08:00","text":"對，我們要從數據才能夠……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:17.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:19.552000+08:00","text":"數據，然後研究嘛！對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:20.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:21.935000+08:00","text":"我們現在期待看到的是你的調適政策、調適計畫、調適行動。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:22.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:22.035000+08:00","text":"是，現在……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:22.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:36.171000+08:00","text":"你們現在談不上是調適的政策、調適的計畫，你也沒有去整合各部會，整個調適的行動綱領要怎麼訂定？","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:37.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:43.199000+08:00","text":"例如溫度幾度對於每個年齡的國人有什麼樣的衝擊……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:43.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:44.240000+08:00","text":"這是基本研究而已。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:44.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:45.401000+08:00","text":"我們目前連這個都沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:45.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:46.222000+08:00","text":"這是基本研究。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:46.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:46.642000+08:00","text":"我們國家連這個都沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:46.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:37:54.171000+08:00","text":"但你其實有在做，你們有一個抗高溫調適專區嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:37:55.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:03.341000+08:00","text":"去年你們也首度試辦了114年度抗高溫調適對策演練，有啦！","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:38:03.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:03.942000+08:00","text":"你有在做！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:38:04.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:19.054000+08:00","text":"你找了中央部會16個單位，16個部會，也找了臺北市及新北市兩個地方政府參與，進行調適對策的演練，你知道嗎？演練？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:38:19.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:19.695000+08:00","text":"我有參加。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:38:20.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:20.595000+08:00","text":"你有參加喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:38:21.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:56.993000+08:00","text":"但這個演練就是閉門會議，301會議室聯合演練，至於你們的演練情形，參與單位就是16個中央部會與2個地方政府，互開一個會，腳本式的桌上推演，不是真正測試制度是否為可操作的壓力測試型演練，你們就是自己桌上談兵、有腳本，當然也有長官致詞、合照、灑水車照相、做新聞稿啦！","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:38:57.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:38:59.355000+08:00","text":"但是我們很難看得出來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:39:00.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:39:01.076000+08:00","text":"委員，第一次啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:39:01.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:39:01.896000+08:00","text":"這是第一次這樣做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:39:02.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:39:44.443000+08:00","text":"你們就是把既有的業務與宣導措施，大家各部會、各地方政府流水席式的報告一次啦，這樣就花了2個小時、3個小時，但真正的演練不是這樣子，我們希望你透過演練能驗證出哪些跨部會的應變機制有缺失，並測試這些制度的斷點是什麼，在這種狀況下要形成正式的高溫應變SOP，而且在演練後要產出完整的檢討報告、缺失清單、改善時程、責任分工。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:39:45.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:11.772000+08:00","text":"你們那個演練應該只能說是大家討論，但是你們將它稱為演練，在我們看來，你應該要是進行垮部會應變機制的模擬，但看起來卻不是，只是各自報告業務作業，在這種狀況下，其實沒有辦法測出真正的制度問題。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:11.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:33.531000+08:00","text":"這個資訊的傳遞有沒有延遲，地方政府的執行有沒有落差，你的涼適點是不是足夠，你的能源脆弱或一般普通脆弱的族群名單是不是完整，跨部會的權責是不是清楚，地方與中央的啟動條件是不是一致，有嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:34.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:35.433000+08:00","text":"這個一步一步來啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:36.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:39.635000+08:00","text":"委員，這是我們第一次這樣做，而且只針對38度，原本我是要求40度。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:41.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:45.479000+08:00","text":"我也相信在第一次之後，今年的演練會更加明確，把這個協調清楚。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:45.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:48.601000+08:00","text":"臺灣曾經出現過40度的地方在哪裡？雙北。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:51.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:53.360000+08:00","text":"所以你現在只演練雙北？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:54.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:57.043000+08:00","text":"未來六都可能有機會啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:57.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:40:59.185000+08:00","text":"事實上，未來我們會……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:40:59.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:41:14.610000+08:00","text":"但我要告訴你，相對於全臺灣的其他各地方，其實雙北的行政量能比較高、資源也比較多、公共設施也比較完整，因此，他們的熱浪應變基礎應該也是相對比較有能力。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:41:14.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:41:33.412000+08:00","text":"至於資源比較少的、熱風險類型不同的、人口結構比較脆弱的、老人可能比較多的，可能是農業縣市的、沿海工業區的、原鄉的、高齡比例比較高的地區，可能才更需要你們，以後應該是要納入這些。是。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:41:34.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:41:45.080000+08:00","text":"你的Cool Map、你的治理工具就只是像一個資訊平台，你要告訴大家，如果熱浪來襲時你很熱，我有一個Cool Map。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:41:45.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:42:04.916000+08:00","text":"Cool Map首波整合雙北及臺南共2,400個涼適點，提供500公尺內的涼適點查詢，包含戶外的遮蔭降溫設施，室內的涼爽設施，簡單講就是冷氣啦！","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:42:05.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:42:14.044000+08:00","text":"你們自己寫的，有座位、有冷氣、有飲用水、有廁所、有無障礙設施，其實大部分都是便利商店以及公部門的場所。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:42:15.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:42:26.316000+08:00","text":"但我認為住在當地的人可能比你更知道哪裡有免費的冷氣，所以你做這個Cool Map的意義是什麼？","quality":0.614},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:42:28.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:42:55.288000+08:00","text":"你的Cool Map應該成為一種治理的工具，並不是打開地圖找哪裡有冷氣，它比較像是資訊服務，連結地方高溫的應變、避暑空間的開放、脆弱族群的主動關懷、社福的轉介、避暑動線的規劃，讓它成為一種治理的工具，並不是用來尋找哪裡有冷氣、有廁所。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:42:55.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:42:56.549000+08:00","text":"報告委員，一步一步來啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:42:56.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:43:03.650000+08:00","text":"我們也有針對南部獨居長者進行測試，目標就是未來要把這個全面連結在一起。對啦！","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:43:04.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:43:17.075000+08:00","text":"現在我建議你要與地方政府的高溫應變計畫、社福長照系統、里鄰的關懷網絡整合，在使用上要統計人次、導流的成效、區域的落差、合作據點的開放率，盤點高風險行政區，仍缺乏足夠涼適點的要建構出來，要不然它就只是一個Cool Map，應該是比較可惜啦！","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:43:17.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:43:49.537000+08:00","text":"跨部會搜尋需要優先幫忙的對象、辨識能源的弱勢、減輕能源支出負擔、優先設置避暑的地點，這樣做才是比較好的Cool Map吧！","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:43:51.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:44:11.147000+08:00","text":"在這裡我要告訴你，氣候變遷因應法第十七條第八款講得很清楚，政府應強化脆弱群體因應氣候變遷衝擊的能力，這個就是環境部的法定責任。是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:44:13.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:44:40.383000+08:00","text":"你們公布的氣候變遷風險評估作業準則也把危害度、暴露度、脆弱度、高風險地區調適的差距都納入制度，所以民間團體也點出高溫調適論壇說的老舊城區、綠地錯置、居住條件不良及社會弱勢，正在讓部分地區變成高溫調適的孤島。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:44:41.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:44:45.666000+08:00","text":"有些高溫狀況確實是牽扯到很多的社會不平等，真的是……因此，看起來是熱危害，其實也有社會不平等的成分在裡面，而這個社會不平等就是政府要解決的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:44:45.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:24.178000+08:00","text":"針對社會不平等、資源弱勢的、健康弱勢的或別無選擇的，透過政府的資源與能力介入，把這個社會不平等差距縮小，讓高溫危害的地區、高風險的族群，透過政府資源的介入，把這個不平等差距縮小，這是很重要的。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:24.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:26.400000+08:00","text":"是，我們會努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:26.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:27.421000+08:00","text":"去年所做的並不夠。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:28.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:29.263000+08:00","text":"這個要連結起來啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:29.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:37.769000+08:00","text":"但也要向委員報告，因為過去這個調適的經費在政府部門真的是沒有特別匡列，人員也不夠，這個我們會努力。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:37.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:39.010000+08:00","text":"現在開始要了。對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:40.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:42.012000+08:00","text":"今年編的預算成長多少？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:42.733000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:43.313000+08:00","text":"碳費有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:43.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:46.576000+08:00","text":"碳費未來會做調適，以前真的都沒有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:46.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:47.316000+08:00","text":"好、OK。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:47.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:47.937000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員、謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:47.937000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:48.277000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝林淑芬委員的發言。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:48.777000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T13:45:53.634143+08:00","text":"葉元之委員、葉元之委員，葉元之委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T13:45:53.934143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T13:46:02.219857+08:00","text":"接著我們請林楚茵委員發言，林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員，林楚茵委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T13:46:02.519857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T13:46:05.948429+08:00","text":"接著我們請劉建國委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}