{"error":false,"id":["168766"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168766,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168766","日期":"2026-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-22T10:34:04+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-22T10:43:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5b5880b40c5769f1972004290cd6e581a31e0b39ac3e37f8c971d415a83c73d9503e7d5bbc3009275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:34:04 - 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我們有請嚴主委"},{"start":9.472,"end":36.644,"text":"黃委員好 主委早安 主委主委您是軍人轉任那個退伍會主委嘛是那我想退伍軍人同胞遇到的問題無非就是養訓那養就是醫療照護訓就是就業訓練那尤其對於這個中年離開軍體生涯的這些弟兄就業訓練就對他們來講就非常的重要那我們退伍會在桃園一個執訓中心那主要就是做好這個融健"},{"start":37.864,"end":56.709,"text":"直接訓練技能檢定還有就業輔導工作但是退伏會內部做的這個退出軍官兵這個參與訓練的這個概況啊跟這個性別的分析我們發現一件事就是參與訓練不管是男性或女性的這些退伏軍人他通訊處大多是集中在新北跟桃園"},{"start":57.549,"end":83.282,"text":"那顯然就是說我們退伍弟兄因為家庭環境跟居住地的關係他會選擇離居住比較近的地方來參加訓練那所以非居住在桃園跟新北這兩個地區參與的退伍弟兄就比較少那主委本席在上一次約會報告的時候就有建議說我們退伍會在推動職業訓練應該跟我們勞動部還有地方政府來共同來推動"},{"start":84.5,"end":101.77,"text":"那最主要就是讓這些弟兄可以就近的訓練在參加執訓不用大老遠的跑去桃園那今天我們退伍會的報告一段報告裡面有提到說要提供給退伍的軍事官弟兄多元培訓的管道以自身的需求選擇合適訓練課程來提升他的職場技能"},{"start":105.492,"end":120.241,"text":"然後進而促進在地的就業不過本席並沒有看到我們退伍會如果跟勞動部地方政府跟民間企業來共同合作來推動執訓的這些細部成果的資料那主委本席要提醒就是退伍弟兄"},{"start":121.201,"end":150.456,"text":"就本來就不是那麼容易那我想不要再那麼花這些金錢跟時間大老遠跑去桃園授訓我們應該結合地方的一些資源讓在各縣市裡面他可以確實到在地授訓我想這才是真的確實協助到這些弟兄那如果因為你特殊的課程必須到其他的縣市我們退伏隊應該給予他相關的補助嘛讓退伏的弟兄在結訓之後就可以立刻就位主委這可以做得到嗎主委指導委員會請就位處長跟您說明一下"},{"start":151.806,"end":175.19,"text":"委員好 我是就學建業處處長跟您報告沒有錯 委員剛講的我們的職訓的政策包括就業政策都是在地參訓 在地就業那事實上要跟委員報告過去三年我們除了桃園的自辦訓練以外其實我們花東地區跑到那邊去受訓的因為我們有遠地的都免費住宿其實過去三年我們有266個人去那邊參訓有100個是台東的人"},{"start":179.931,"end":187.793,"text":"當然我們很多還有在委外訓練也就是說在花東地區特別在台東地區我們在過去四年其實都有開班也培訓了153個人更重要您剛有提到我對於全國有一萬五千多個班隊我在花東地區其實在過去的三年裡面我們也有533個人去受訓台東也有165個人"},{"start":207.459,"end":232.057,"text":"還有勞動部有兩個分署在那個地方每年都會開這個24個班600個這個數額其實對於花東地區的一個數量基本上我們的調查應該是可以滿足的那因為勞動部來講他也沒有針對跨域的一個資訊來補助今天所以我們目前我們會去關注這個議題 以上我想那個可以跨部會來合作那也請會後"},{"start":233.378,"end":253.413,"text":"把這些相關的跟各機關共同推動這個在地訓練的這個統計資料給本席辦公室讓本席了解到我們這個相關職業訓練的這個後續進行的情況好那另外我要提醒你要請教主委主委你擔任退服會主委之後有沒有到台東去巡視過相關退服會的業務"},{"start":254.494,"end":280.996,"text":"台東有去過 農場還有相關的農家 農福處都去過農福處有 農場也有那本席來跟你就討論就農場這些事情我們的農場的服務品質的部分那來東部旅遊的遊客通常他就會選擇在花蓮或台東晚上住一晚然後隔天選擇北上或南下這個是到花東旅遊的一個模式那台東的經濟產業裡面觀光業占了非常大的一部分"},{"start":281.656,"end":310.552,"text":"那我想只要旅遊的體驗好不好會對地方他影響在發展那個旅遊產業就影響非常大那住宿方不方便 訂房方不方便 交通方不方便這個都影響到旅客願不願意來台東旅遊的一些意願那本市有說到退府會所屬的這個農場近三年來我們的遊憶區的這個營收下滑遊客宿住宿率都在減少那當然退府會的理由是說因為疫情後國人都出國"},{"start":311.272,"end":326.422,"text":"那加上地震、風災這些極端氣候種種因素所以國人比較不願意安排到山林來旅遊那這些本席都可以理解但是在這樣的情況之下我們應該利用這些時間把我們基礎的一些建設還有服務來提升來做好來做準備"},{"start":327.463,"end":351.276,"text":"那推幅會議說要優化我們的呃旅宿環境提升服務品質要在這近四年要在三高三個高商的農場也就是我們福壽山津津還有這武林要投入大概十億元來做刻板的整修那後續要再投入大概至少四點四億元但是本期看池上的這個台東農場有沒有沒有分配到相關的這些優化的資源的經費"},{"start":352.276,"end":376.689,"text":"那明明台東農場他就坐用花東縱谷跟博望大道這個美觀美麗的景觀可是卻沒有獲得這樣的資源的分配那不只如此那我們也發現台東農場下面有幾個據點都還在整修當中像慈善會館台東農場的官網顯示不開放訂房但是我們在民間的訂房平台在booking.com上可以訂得到"},{"start":377.569,"end":405.881,"text":"那東和農場他其實從去年3月就開始顯示一直在維修當中那這兩個據點其實在台東的旅遊上都是非常重要的觀光景點那也可以說台東旅遊上遊客來都必經的幾個地區那我想但是在這上面我看到這些包括在訂房上還有整個維修上我認為這不是一個及格的一個狀況那我想這對台東的觀光影響也很大"},{"start":406.667,"end":413.767,"text":"那另外我們還有發現民眾的反應說受風會館是把這些網路訂房都取消了只能打電話"},{"start":415.323,"end":438.029,"text":"我們直接回到剝竭時代這樣子那我們退輔會你意思說要提升品質然後你一方面服務品質其實不是這麼的便利那這個部分是不是請我解問題來請教主委啦對就是說第一個就是說我們三高農場可以獲得龐大的資源來改善營運那為什麼台東農場這次沒有被納入那相關的規劃的標準是什麼"},{"start":438.829,"end":465.002,"text":"那第二個台東農場的官網什麼時候可以改善讓遊客可以方便的訂房那第三個東河休閒農莊這些整修的據點進度為什麼會拖這麼久還沒完成有沒有明確的完工時間點那第四個未來這些據點整修完之後是不是跟我們的收工會館一樣要建立一個透明公開的訂房機制還是維持現在的模式打電話來訂那這部分是不是可以先來回應一下"},{"start":465.182,"end":489.65,"text":"那我跟委員報告台東方面的觀光這部分多半是委外經營所以在我們預算裡面我也沒有看到那目前經營狀況慈善慈善會館已經完成招商跟整建那二月份迎取的旅館登記證在七月會開始營業那東河龍光是四月一號完成招商在一百一十八年四月開始營業那剛剛委員所提到的還有受風雲"},{"start":490.424,"end":504.231,"text":"你事業處處長跟你說明的是我要指示那個事業處處長董少銘向委員報告有關售豐農場這部分他的網頁還是可以訂購的所以說這個資訊是完整的所以跟委員做以上報告好的"},{"start":506.721,"end":520.253,"text":"包委員我再補充一下我這台東那種廠長有關收風匯款部分因為現在配合那個內政部的那個收風的整個都市計畫變更那現在在爭取旅遊服務區的改變以上先跟委員報告好 謝謝包廠長"},{"start":522.3,"end":532.23,"text":"主委雖然說我們委外有些基礎設施我想還是要投入去經營因為你畢竟投入這麼多的經費我想也能夠平均來分配一下東部這塊的資源我們會檢討相關的資源"},{"start":537.054,"end":557.769,"text":"我想本席認為說越是在挑戰的時候我們越應該要投入更多的資源那讓資源能夠重新的來分配平均那服務也應該要更進步那這對未來不管是在整個我們退補會的經營上面或者是整個台東的觀光我想都是雙贏那也希望這本席提到幾個問題能夠主委這邊能夠來協助是 我們會全力協助謝謝主委 謝謝大家 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:34:04.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:34:05.875000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請嚴主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:34:13.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:34:13.672000+08:00","text":"黃委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:34:14.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:34:14.573000+08:00","text":"主委早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:34:14.773000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:34:19.455000+08:00","text":"主委，您是軍人轉任退輔會主委？是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:34:20.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:34:36.302000+08:00","text":"我想退伍軍人同胞遇到的問題，無非就是「養、訓」，「養」就是醫療照護、「訓」就是就業訓練，尤其對於中年離開軍旅生涯的這些弟兄，就業訓練對他們來講非常重要。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:34:37.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:35:17.177000+08:00","text":"退輔會在桃園職訓中心主要就是做好榮眷職業訓練、技能檢定，還有就業輔導工作，但是退輔會內部做的退除役官兵參與訓練的概況跟性別的分析，我們發現一件事，參與訓練不管是男性或女性的退伍軍人，通訊處大多集中在新北跟桃園，顯然就是退伍弟兄因為家庭環境跟居住地的關係，會選擇離居住地比較近的地方參加訓練，所以非居住在桃園跟新北這兩個地區，參與的退伍弟兄就比較少。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:35:18.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:35:34.944000+08:00","text":"主委，本席在上一次業務報告的時候就有建議退輔會推動職業訓練應該跟勞動部，還有地方政府共同推動，最主要就是讓這些弟兄可以就近參加職訓，不用大老遠跑去桃園。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:35:35.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:35:52.354000+08:00","text":"今天退輔會的預算報告有提到要提供給退伍的軍士官弟兄多元培訓管道，依自身需求選擇合適訓練課程，提升職場技能，進而促進在地就業。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:35:52.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:36:00.218000+08:00","text":"不過本席並沒有看到退輔會跟勞動部、地方政府以及民間企業共同合作，推動職訓的細部成果相關資料。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:36:02.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:36:19.228000+08:00","text":"主委，本席要提醒，退伍弟兄就業本來就不是那麼容易，我想不要再讓他們花這些金錢跟時間大老遠跑去桃園受訓，應該結合地方的一些資源，讓他們可以確實在各縣市在地受訓，我想這才是真的協助到這些弟兄。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:36:20.669000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:36:30.994000+08:00","text":"如果因為特殊課程必須到其他縣市，退輔會也應該給予相關補助，讓退伍的弟兄在結訓之後就可以立刻就業，主委，這可以做到嗎？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:36:32.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:36:34.156000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我請就業處長跟您說明。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"池處長玉蘭","start":"2026-04-22T10:36:35.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:36:36.066000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"池處長玉蘭","start":"2026-04-22T10:36:36.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:36:45.888000+08:00","text":"我是就學就業處處長，跟您報告，沒有錯，委員剛講的，我們的職訓政策，包括就業政策都是在地參訓、在地就業。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"池處長玉蘭","start":"2026-04-22T10:36:46.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:37:07.712000+08:00","text":"要跟委員報告，過去三年我們除了桃園的自辦訓練以外，花東地區跑到那邊去受訓的，因為我們有遠地的免費住宿，其實過去三年有266人去那邊參訓，有100個是臺東的人，當然還有很多是委外訓練，也就是說在花東地區，特別在臺東地區，我們在過去四年其實都有開班，也培訓了153個人。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"池處長玉蘭","start":"2026-04-22T10:37:07.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:37:11.773000+08:00","text":"更重要，您剛剛有提到，全國一萬五千多個班隊，花東地區在過去三年裡面也有533個人去受訓，臺東也有165個人。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"池處長玉蘭","start":"2026-04-22T10:37:31.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:37:44.449000+08:00","text":"還有，勞動部有兩個分署在那個地方每年都會開24個班、600個訓額，其實對於花東地區的訓量，我們的調查基本上應該是可以滿足的。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"池處長玉蘭","start":"2026-04-22T10:37:45.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:37:53.736000+08:00","text":"因為勞動部也沒有針對跨域職訓補助津貼，所以目前我們會去關注這個議題，以上。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:37:53.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:38:08.146000+08:00","text":"我想這個可以跨部會合作，也請會後把跟各機關共同推動在地訓練相關的統計資料給本席辦公室，讓本席了解到職業訓練後續進行的情況。是。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:38:09.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:38:17.413000+08:00","text":"另外要請教主委，主委，你擔任退輔會主委之後，有沒有到臺東去巡視過相關退輔會的業務？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:38:18.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:38:21.096000+08:00","text":"臺東我去過。有喔？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:38:21.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:38:23.878000+08:00","text":"農場，還有相關的榮家、榮服處，都去過。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:38:23.878000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:38:30.564000+08:00","text":"農場有，榮服處也有，那本席跟你討論關於農場服務品質的問題。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:38:32.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:38:40.312000+08:00","text":"來東部旅遊的遊客通常會選擇在花蓮或臺東住一晚，然後隔天選擇北上或南下，這個是到花東旅遊的一個模式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:38:41.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:39:03.146000+08:00","text":"臺東的經濟產業裡面，觀光業占非常大一部分，我想旅遊的體驗好不好對於地方發展旅遊產業的影響非常大，住宿方不方便、訂房方不方便、交通方不方便都影響到旅客願不願意來臺東旅遊的一些意願。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:39:03.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:39:30.422000+08:00","text":"本席有注意到退輔會所屬的農場近三年來遊憩區的營收下滑，遊客數、住宿率都在減少，退輔會的理由是疫情後國人都出國，加上地震、風災這些極端氣候種種因素，所以國人比較不願意安排到山林旅遊，這些本席都可以理解，但是在這樣的情況之下，我們應該利用這些時間把一些基礎建設還有服務提升、做好，來做準備。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:39:32.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:39:49.352000+08:00","text":"退輔會說要優化旅宿環境，提升服務品質，近四年要在三個高山農場，也就是福壽山、清境，還有武陵，投入大概10億元做客房整修，後續要再投入大概至少4.4億元。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:39:49.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:40:05.301000+08:00","text":"但是本席看池上的臺東農場並沒有分配到相關的優化資源經費，明明臺東農場坐擁花東縱谷跟伯朗大道這個美麗的景觀，可是卻沒有獲得這樣的資源分配。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:40:06.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:40:49.861000+08:00","text":"不止如此，我們也發現臺東農場目前有幾個據點都還在整修當中，像池上會館，臺東農場的官網就顯示不開放訂房，但是我們在民間的訂房平臺Booking.com上可以訂得到，東河農場從去年3月就開始顯示一直在維修當中，這兩個據點在臺東旅遊都是非常重要的觀光景點，也可以說是來臺東旅遊的遊客必經的幾個地區，但是在這上面我看到包括訂房，還有整個維修，我認為這不是一個及格的狀況，我想這對臺東的觀光影響也很大。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:40:52.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:00.583000+08:00","text":"另外還發現有民眾反映，壽豐會館直接把網路訂房都取消了，只能打電話，直接回到撥接時代。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:01.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:20.048000+08:00","text":"退輔會一直說要提升品質，但是一方面服務品質又不是這麼便利，針對這個部分我有幾個問題請教主委：第一個，三高農場可以獲得龐大資源改善營運，為什麼臺東農場這次沒有被納入？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:20.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:22.029000+08:00","text":"相關規劃的標準是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:22.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:27.291000+08:00","text":"第二個，臺東農場的官網什麼時候可以改善，讓遊客可以方便的訂房？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:27.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:33.915000+08:00","text":"第三個，東河休閒農莊這些整修據點的進度為什麼會拖這麼久還沒完成？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:34.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:36.436000+08:00","text":"有沒有明確的完工時間點？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:36.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:44.200000+08:00","text":"第四個，未來這些據點整修完之後，是不是跟壽豐會館一樣，維持現在的模式打電話來訂，還是要建立一個透明公開的訂房機制？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:47.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:48.982000+08:00","text":"這部分是不是可以先回應一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:49.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:41:55.924000+08:00","text":"報告委員，臺東農場觀光這部分多半是委外經營，所以在我們預算裡面沒有看到。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:41:56.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:15.064000+08:00","text":"目前的經營狀況，池上會館已經完成招商跟簡介，2月份已經取得旅館登記證，7月會開始營業，東河農莊是4月1號完成招商，在118年4月開始營業，剛剛委員所提到的還有壽豐，請事業處處長跟您說明一下。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"董處長紹明","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:16.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:18.986000+08:00","text":"委員好，職是事業處處長董紹明。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"董處長紹明","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:19.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:28.211000+08:00","text":"向委員報告，有關壽豐農場這部分，它的網頁還是可以訂購的，資訊是完整的，跟委員作以上報告。好的。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"高場長國書","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:30.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:32.983000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我再補充一下，我是臺東農場場長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"高場長國書","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:32.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:43.913000+08:00","text":"有關壽豐會館部分，因為現在配合內政部壽豐的都市計畫變更，現在在爭取旅遊服務區的改變，以上先跟委員報告。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:44.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:44.253000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝高場長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:46.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:51.225000+08:00","text":"主委，雖然是委外，但有些基礎設施還是要投入經營，對不對？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:51.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:55.869000+08:00","text":"因為畢竟投入這麼多經費，我想應該也能夠平均分配東部這塊的資源，不會因為委外就放著。","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:42:55.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:42:56.210000+08:00","text":"我們會檢討相關的經費資源。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:01.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:20.207000+08:00","text":"本席認為越是在挑戰的時候，我們越應該投入更多的資源，讓資源能夠重新分配平均，服務也應該要更進步，這對未來，不管是整個退輔會的經營，或者是整個臺東的觀光，我想都是雙贏，也希望對於本席提到的幾個問題，主委這邊能夠協助！","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:20.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:21.308000+08:00","text":"是，我們會全力協助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員建賓","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:21.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:21.709000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委，謝謝主席。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"嚴主任委員德發","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:22.209000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:23.351857+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:23.651857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:25.651857+08:00","text":"謝謝黃建賓委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:25.951857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:30.809000+08:00","text":"現在處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:31.109000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:32.251857+08:00","text":"臨時提案","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:32.551857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:43:52.266143+08:00","text":"鑑於中華人民共和國以外交與經濟脅迫手段，迫使第三國臨時撤銷我國元首出訪專機飛航許可，嚴重打壓我國國際空間，更干涉他國內政、違反國際慣例、破壞區域現狀。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:43:52.566143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:44:28.566143+08:00","text":"我國總統出訪友邦，是我國對外行使外交權利之主權作為，中國此舉已違反《聯合國憲章》國家主權平等與不干涉內政原則、1970年聯大第2625號決議所明文禁止之強制干預、《芝加哥公約》所確立之國際民航秩序與非歧視原則，以及《維也納外交關係公約》第40條之過境保障精神，構成對國際規則為基礎之秩序之公然挑戰。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:44:28.866143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:45:22.580429+08:00","text":"中華人民共和國對我國之系統性打壓已非個案，本委員會作為國會監督外交與國防事務之專責委員會，針對中華人民共和國脅迫第三國撤銷我國元首飛航相關許可之粗暴行徑予以強烈譴責，並堅定支持政府採取積極措施，持續拓展國家外交空間，捍衛我國家主權及國際生存權利，且要求外交部應透過駐外館處及國際組織管道，將本事件列入國際民用航空組織（ICAO）及其他多邊機制之關注項目，並積極爭取理念相近民主夥伴之聲援與具體行動。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:45:22.880429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:45:26.309000+08:00","text":"陳冠廷　　林楚茵　　沈伯洋　　王定宇","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:45:26.609000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:45:29.180429+08:00","text":"王義川　陳俊宇　羅美玲","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:45:29.480429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:45:31.766143+08:00","text":"先請提案委員說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋：我簡單作個提案說明","start":"2026-04-22T10:45:32.066143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:45:47.780429+08:00","text":"這次由於是用經濟方式迫使其他第三國撤銷飛航許可，飛航許可這件事情在國際上是屬於主權，這很明顯是中國直接介入主權行為。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋：我簡單作個提案說明","start":"2026-04-22T10:45:48.080429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:46:03.794714+08:00","text":"就像我們在提案裡面提到的，除了違反聯合國憲章裡面講的主權問題之外，還包含芝加哥公約所確立的國際民航秩序與非歧視原則。","quality":0},{"speaker":"沈委員伯洋：我簡單作個提案說明","start":"2026-04-22T10:46:04.094714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:46:16.666143+08:00","text":"無論如何，我覺得這是我們外交上非常大的阻礙，針對中國的打壓，我們認為應該要給予最強烈的譴責，以上。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:46:16.966143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:46:19.823286+08:00","text":"請問在場委員有無意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:46:20.123286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:46:21.551857+08:00","text":"徐巧芯委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-22T10:46:21.851857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:46:48.423286+08:00","text":"我是針對程序的部分，對於內容來說，我確實認為賴清德總統能夠出訪友邦……本來這就是我們的友邦，本來就要去，中間如果遇到任何有被打壓或是不公平的狀況，我想這樣一個臨時提案可能因為具有時效性，所以在今天提出來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-22T10:46:48.723286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:47:47.009000+08:00","text":"不過我也要提，因為今天是退輔會的報告，外交部相關人員並沒有在現場，一般來說我們處理臨時提案的時候，上面的一些文字都會再詢問一下相關部會，看他們有沒有什麼需要修正文字細節的部分，然後大家在有共識之後，再通過這樣子一個提案，過去往例好像都是這樣處理的，所以我在這邊也想要請教一下，我對這個案子沒有任何意見，但是我想要請教一下，是不是本案到時候也讓外交部能夠了解一下，如果他們有任何一些文字或什麼細節內容可能要修正的，也有一個機會讓他們再表達？","quality":0.01},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2026-04-22T10:47:47.309000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:47:51.023286+08:00","text":"其他部分我沒有任何意見，謝謝。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:47:51.323286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:47:53.323286+08:00","text":"謝謝徐巧芯委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:47:53.623286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:47:56.194714+08:00","text":"接下來請林楚茵委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-22T10:47:56.494714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:47:57.637571+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-22T10:47:57.937571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:48:24.509000+08:00","text":"首先我要強調今天這不是一個執行案或者是修正案，或者是希望行政部門改進，這是一個譴責案，而今天譴責的對象也不是外交部，我們今天譴責的是中共利用經濟的脅迫，導致我們國家元首無法到友邦進行正式的國是訪問。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-22T10:48:24.809000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:48:42.237571+08:00","text":"在這個部分，昨天第一時間我看到除了我們民進黨發出譴責之外，事實上我也看到包括國民黨以及民眾黨，也都一致站在國家為主這樣的情況底下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-22T10:48:42.537571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:49:14.251857+08:00","text":"我要再次強調，沒錯，今天是退輔會的業報，所以對於退輔會來講，它不是我們譴責的對象，同樣的我要再一次強調，這是一個譴責案，這個譴責案代表的是，身為國防外交的委員，站在國家在外交上受到打壓，在國防上面、國際上面的生存空間受到壓力的時候，你的立場是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-22T10:49:14.551857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:49:39.409000+08:00","text":"事實上這個雖然是由我們民進黨委員發起，其實我也希望在外交委員會當中不論是國民黨的委員或是民眾黨的委員，此刻是展現我們對於國家的忠誠、對於國家元首的支持，以及對於中共惡霸行徑的一個反應。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員楚茵","start":"2026-04-22T10:49:39.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:49:53.994714+08:00","text":"所以我認為這個文字上沒有任何問題，如果認為有問題的人，就是想要利用所謂的程序，惡意讓這個譴責案沒有辦法曝光。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:49:54.294714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:50:22.866143+08:00","text":"第一個，我希望在國防外交委員會所有同仁不分黨派一起連署，我剛才也聽到大家都說沒有問題，一起連署，因為在內部我們怎麼樣競爭，我們對外只有一個國家，民選的元首是憲政機關，總統這個職務本身在憲法是憲政機關，不是所謂的人而已。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:50:23.166143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:50:38.880429+08:00","text":"當民選的元首出訪，代表國家跟人民，面對這樣子突襲式，這個是很典型的叫時間點突擊的方式，我們應該一致對外展現團結，這第一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:50:39.180429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:51:12.323286+08:00","text":"第二個，塞席爾、模里西斯與馬達加斯加島這三個國家陷入中國的債務陷阱，被脅迫，事實上這個overflight permit是在幾個禮拜前就取得，數週前就申請取得，而他們卻因為國家的債務陷阱被脅迫在出發前12個小時取消，配合中國進行這樣經濟脅迫下的外交動作。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:51:12.623286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:51:23.766143+08:00","text":"這件事情唯一該被譴責的就是中國，和這三個陷入債務陷阱而配合進行這種敵意做法的國家。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:51:24.066143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:51:51.780429+08:00","text":"剛才歐盟發言人正式聲援臺灣，也認為利用這種所謂的空中飛越權來進行政治操作，是極度的危險而且不負責任，美國國會也發表譴責這個事件，當別國、當朋友在聲援你的時候，我們自己內部的聲援不應該有任何理由或藉口去阻撓它。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:51:52.080429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:06.937571+08:00","text":"所以，在這件事情上，我希望我們委員會不僅做出無異議通過，我們也希望在場的在野黨委員，不管是哪一個政黨，我們一起參加！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:07.237571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:17.237571+08:00","text":"還是那一句話，國家只有一個，我們在這邊政黨競爭、努力，就是努力幫這個國家更好嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:17.537571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:19.251857+08:00","text":"努力想執政嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:19.551857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:25.551857+08:00","text":"努力想要把對方變在野黨、自己執政讓國家更好嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:25.851857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:31.851857+08:00","text":"當國家面對中國這樣子打壓的時候，我們應該一致。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:32.151857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:43.580429+08:00","text":"最後我要提醒，所謂中國的善意，你要嘛就是太笨被他騙，要不然就配合他在騙臺灣，中國哪有善意？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:43.880429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:49.023286+08:00","text":"事情不分大小，全面的打壓、毫無止境的打壓！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:49.323286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:52:57.323286+08:00","text":"我上一趟有陪總統飛到史瓦帝尼，這有前例的，這樣打壓什麼意思呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:52:57.623286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:53:11.909000+08:00","text":"所以中國把所有東西當武器，不僅僅是政治、軍事，他連跟他互動的經濟，都把它變成武器，看看那三個島國怎麼被他脅迫的！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:53:12.209000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:53:37.351857+08:00","text":"這是一個非常典型的介入他國內政，不僅影響我們中華民國臺灣的內政，也影響那三個島國的內政，而中國越是這樣做，我們外交本來就困難，我們不會因為困難就放棄讓我們2,300萬人走向國際，他越打壓我們越努力！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:53:37.651857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:53:47.651857+08:00","text":"臺灣跟史瓦帝尼的邦誼會更堅定，我們也祝福他們的國王58歲生日快樂，就職40週年快樂！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2026-04-22T10:53:47.951857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:53:53.380429+08:00","text":"我們希望這個案子可以大家一起來連署，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:53:53.680429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:00.251857+08:00","text":"如果在場委員沒有意見的話，是不是本提案就照案通過？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:54:00.551857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:03.409000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，本提案照案通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:54:03.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:06.851857+08:00","text":"接下來我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:54:07.151857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:08.294714+08:00","text":"休息（10時53分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:54:08.594714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:10.309000+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時4分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:54:10.609000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:12.323286+08:00","text":"我們繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-22T10:54:12.623286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-22T10:54:16.623286+08:00","text":"接下來邀請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}