{"error":false,"id":["168768"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168768,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168768","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T09:10:58+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T09:15:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:04:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442b1319ef97886312e47e947452b2762635c559c9b7407d71c62af07d6823bbab05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"09:10:58 - 09:15:49","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管：反托拉斯基金。(詢答)\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)\n【4月22日及23日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":0.79034375,"end":3.10221875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":3.57471875,"end":4.334093750000001,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":10.88159375,"end":18.03659375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":18.03659375,"end":19.31909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":19.94346875,"end":20.33159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":20.85471875,"end":34.962218750000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":25.782218750000002,"end":26.27159375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":34.37159375,"end":73.03221875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":35.41784375,"end":36.05909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":39.299093750000004,"end":39.73784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":53.642843750000004,"end":53.81159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":54.08159375,"end":54.689093750000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":73.03221875,"end":78.82034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":78.97221875000001,"end":100.08284375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":100.74096875000001,"end":101.97284375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":101.97284375000001,"end":110.76471875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":110.76471875,"end":110.79846875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":110.79846875000001,"end":111.33846875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":111.33846875,"end":112.70534375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":112.77284375,"end":122.96534375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":119.97846875,"end":120.40034375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":121.49721875,"end":139.73909375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":139.84034375000002,"end":144.71721875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":144.71721875,"end":159.97221875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":159.97221875,"end":191.03909375,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":191.03909375,"end":211.06971875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":211.06971875000002,"end":238.03596875000002,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":211.08659375000002,"end":212.89221875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":238.03596875000002,"end":240.06096875000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":240.56721875000002,"end":240.92159375000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":241.24221875,"end":265.96409375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":263.16284375000004,"end":263.17971875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":263.21346875,"end":263.28096875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":265.96409375,"end":289.13346875,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員瑞隆","start":290.66909375,"end":292.17096875000004,"speaker_score":0.931},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":291.09096875,"end":292.91346875,"speaker_score":0.959}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.854,"end":18.789,"text":"好 謝謝洪昭偉 請賴次長 請賴次長次長 我先請教一下 這個土石採取法這個相當重要 社會高度關注那院版什麼時候能夠送進來"},{"start":20.98,"end":38.969,"text":"事實上我剛剛也到院裡面跟相關的單位來去進行整個法規更細緻化的一個檢討那我們希望說是不是在兩個禮拜裡面可以院的部分可以來通過這個我希望在審查的時候院辦應該要一起進來討論這個能夠更加的充分"},{"start":39.949,"end":62.283,"text":"那因為布版的已經出來了大家看得到但是不知道院還會不會有一些修改一些那我們也希望沒有如果已經有共識的趕快送進立法院來做審議那希望大家一起兵牙來審查能夠更完整把這個土石採取法修得更好好不好兩個禮拜內請院裡面盡速把版本送進來也請次長在跟院裡面再說明一下能夠盡快好不好好"},{"start":62.603,"end":78.458,"text":"再要請教一下其實這次整個修法裡面其實幾個大方向大家都支持包括我們把刑罰部分加入給予更強的嚇阻力這應該也是目前運版跟布版的一個方向是第一個我們希望維持國土的安全"},{"start":79.139,"end":99.051,"text":"那針對不法的行為要積極的遏止所以我們在經濟部在提這個修法的預告的之前我們地礦中心也分別的去拜訪高檢署跟地檢署就目前現行執行的這個部分希望要達到遏止的目的那過去只有行政法法那現實行為人沒有辦法"},{"start":101.74,"end":120.133,"text":"刑罰是最好的效果坦白講這些惡意的這些的倒採殺死或者是回田的這些的其實最怕的是被關那如果你有刑罰的話對他們嚇阻力就更大了委員所說的確實是在這個法務部各個在細數偵辦之中所有檢察官包括高檢署的認為說這個部分"},{"start":121.894,"end":144.153,"text":"我想這個應該大家是有共識那另外是他們沒入這些機具有時候大家發現他已經在不管是挖土機或者說運送的一些車輛在做的時候如果我們能夠立即把他給扣下來的話那應該也會立即能夠讓這個事情不再發生而且也產生更強的嚇阻力啦你來一條扣一台兩台扣兩台我不相信有業者會不斷地冒這樣的風險"},{"start":145.173,"end":161.609,"text":"但是我們在執行這個過程裡面還要考慮到各縣市政府在沒入這些的機區的時候不管是在當下去進行所謂的看護或是事後的一個保管這個應該是執行面的問題怎麼去執行但是至少你有嚇阻力"},{"start":162.33,"end":179.91,"text":"就是你有違法行為我把你的挖土機甚至把你的一些運具全部把你扣下來的話你有多少數量你沒有這些東西你就無法進行違法的行為了這個是強而有力的手段我相信這也是好的方法這應該是大家也都會支持的好 謝謝維恩好 再來我也請教一下剛剛其實市長提到"},{"start":180.43,"end":209.333,"text":"盈利跟非盈利的部分這個有區隔開來如果第三條把那個這麼明確訂定的話那我們擔心有些是自用的不小心的誤觸的這塊就不會錄入到了一百萬以上的這樣的罰款的問題是謝謝委員指導事實上在這個部分因為民眾對於自己少量的這個使用還有包括自己因為不管是在農地的耕作或是在整地的需求裡面我們在本法的第三條裡面已經有各個條款大概是五個"},{"start":210.074,"end":239.654,"text":"六個部分對 這個只要區隔清楚 只要區隔清楚的話讓盈利跟非盈利的分得清楚一般的老百姓的不會落到這個重罰裡面但是對於我們這些惡意的這些的盈利行為的必須要給予重罰那這樣才能產生嚇阻的效果所以延續的我就要講那所以我的版本裡面是你看這一個關高雄的案件他不法獲利破三億那如果現在動輒以像剛剛布板的提出來是兩千萬的話這有辦法達到嚇阻的效果嗎"},{"start":241.335,"end":261.742,"text":"搭配我們現在目前的刑法和機具的默入的部分我相信可以達到一定的惡主的效果而且委員你剛剛這個照片裡面所示的它絕對不會是非營利的一個行為或是民眾少許的整體的行為我們針對於這種行為我們希望透過這次的修法來進行"},{"start":263.283,"end":263.503,"text":"好 謝謝市長 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:10:59.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:10:59.495000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪召委。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:00.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:02.017000+08:00","text":"請賴次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:02.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:08.943000+08:00","text":"請賴次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:08.943000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:09.943000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:08.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:16.789000+08:00","text":"次長，我先請教一下，土石採取法相當重要，也是社會高度關注，院版什麼時候能夠送進來？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:18.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:32.306000+08:00","text":"事實上我剛剛也到院裡面，跟相關的單位進行如何使法規更細緻化的檢討，我們希望是不是在兩個禮拜以內，可以讓院的部分通過？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:32.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:52.378000+08:00","text":"我希望在審查的時候，院版應該要一起進來討論，讓這個部分能夠更加充分，因為部版的已經出來了，大家看得到，但是不知道院還會不會有一些修改意見，我們也希望如果已經有共識，就趕快送進立法院來審議，大家一起併案來審查，能夠更完整地把土石採取法修得更好，好不好？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:52.378000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:11:53.378000+08:00","text":"對，目前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:11:52.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:12:00.263000+08:00","text":"兩個禮拜內，請院裡面儘速把版本送進來，也請次長再跟院裡面說明一下，能夠儘快，好不好？好。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:12:00.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:12:11.674000+08:00","text":"再來要請教一下，這次整個修法裡面，其實幾個大方向大家都支持，包括把刑法部分加入，給予更強的嚇阻力，這應該也是目前院版跟部版的方向嘛。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:12:12.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:12:37.031000+08:00","text":"是，第一個，我們希望維持國土的安全，針對不法的行為要積極遏止，所以經濟部在提修法預告之前，我們地礦中心也分別拜訪高檢署跟地檢署，就現行執行的部分，希望達到遏止的目的，過去只有行政罰法，行使行為人沒有辦法，沒有……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:12:39.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:12:41.061000+08:00","text":"刑罰是最好的效果啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:12:41.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:12:50.427000+08:00","text":"坦白講，惡意盜採砂石或者是回填的這些人其實最怕的是被關，如果有刑法的話，對他們嚇阻力就更大了。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:12:51.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:12:58.113000+08:00","text":"委員所說的，確實是各個在法務部繫屬偵辦之中，所有檢察官包括高檢署都認為這個部分可以達到……","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:12:59.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:01.476000+08:00","text":"我想這個應該是大家有共識的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:01.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:22.153000+08:00","text":"另外是沒入他的這些機具，有時候大家發現他已經在做的時候，不管是挖土機或者運送的一些車輛，如果能夠立即把它扣下來，應該也能夠立即讓這個事情不再發生，而且也產生更強的嚇阻力，你來1台，我扣1台，來2台就扣2台，我不相信有業者會不斷冒這樣的風險。","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:23.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:35.505000+08:00","text":"是的，但是我們在執行的過程中，還要考慮到各縣市政府在沒入這些的機具的時候，不管是在當下進行所謂的看護或是事後的保管……","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:36.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:37.947000+08:00","text":"這個應該是執行面的問題，怎麼去執行。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:38.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:47.338000+08:00","text":"但是至少有嚇阻力產生，就是如果有違法行為，就把你的挖土機，甚至運具全部扣下來，你能有多少數量？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:47.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:54.926000+08:00","text":"你沒有這些東西就無法進行違法的行為了嘛，這個是強而有力的手段，我相信這也是好的方法，這應該也是大家都會支持的嘛！","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:55.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:13:55.547000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:13:56.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:14:10.540000+08:00","text":"再來，我也請教一下，剛剛次長提到營利跟非營利的部分有區隔開來，如果第三條這麼明確訂定的話，我們擔心有些自用的、不小心的、誤觸的這一塊就不會落入到了100萬以上罰鍰的問題。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:14:10.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:14:12.942000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的指導。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:14:12.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:14:28.594000+08:00","text":"事實上，在這個部分，因為民眾對於自己少量使用，還有包括自己不管是在農地的耕作，或是在整地的需求裡面，我們在本法第三條已經有各個條款，大概是六個部分，可以區分出來。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:14:29.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:14:43.464000+08:00","text":"對，這個只要區隔清楚，讓營利跟非營利分得清楚，一般的老百姓不會落到重罰裡面，但是對於這些惡意的營利行為者必須要給予重罰，這樣才能產生嚇阻效果。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:14:44.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:14:57.654000+08:00","text":"我就延續著講，所以我的版本裡面是……你看，光這一個高雄的案件，不法獲利破3億，如果現在動輒以……像剛剛部版提出來的是2,000萬的話，這有辦法達到嚇阻的效果嗎？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:14:59.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:15:19.722000+08:00","text":"搭配目前的刑法還有機具沒入的部分，我相信可以達到一定的遏阻效果，而且委員你剛剛這個照片裡面所示的，它絕對不會是非營利的行為，或是民眾少許的整地行為，針對這種行為，我們希望透過這次的修法來進行相關的……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:15:19.722000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:15:21.483000+08:00","text":"我相信幾個修法都會達到一定的成效，因為現有的只是所得利益範圍酌量加重罰鍰，跟直接2,000萬、3億，比如5億啦，而他獲利有3億的空間，我們給5億，不管最後追得回來、追不回來，至少在法上面會呈現出一個高度的力量，我覺得這個部分還是請院裡面跟部慎重評估，也許我們在委員會可以慎重討論。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員瑞隆","start":"2026-04-23T09:15:21.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:15:21.503000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:15:22.003000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:15:25.145857+08:00","text":"謝謝賴瑞隆委員，謝謝次長。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:15:25.445857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:15:28.588714+08:00","text":"接下來請邱議瑩委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}