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Tahovecahe等17人擬具「土石採取法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃仁等36人擬具「土石採取法第三條及第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等21人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具「土石採取法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員許智傑等31人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員柯志恩等19人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員丁學忠等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「土石採取法第三十六條、第三十八條及第四十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(第十案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) 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我先請一下公平會陳代理主委請公平會主委二位應召"},{"start":30.436,"end":40.647,"text":"主委我先請您看一下這幾個網站請問你能夠分辨得出來哪一個是原廠的維修網站嗎"},{"start":42.879,"end":63.901,"text":"當然如果從標題來看也許不是那麼清楚 但是點進去看情況怎麼樣才能做進一步的改變但你覺得一般的民眾他如果比如說他的冷氣要維修他打了一個大金冷氣維修這樣的一個Google的關鍵字跳出來這麼多的網站 你覺得消費者會每一個都點進去看然後才知道說哪一個是原廠的維修網站嗎"},{"start":64.582,"end":91.452,"text":"當然從點閱的行為來看一下因為你會從Google的關鍵字或是跳出來的第一個或許他們就會覺得這個有可能而且每一個網站上面看起來它都是直接就寫某某品牌的冷氣維修來 主委那您看到其實剛剛的那一頁裡面第二個才是真正的原廠維修的網站但是其實你從它的標裡頭你是看不出來的就算你點進去了以後"},{"start":91.972,"end":100.699,"text":"他其實還是會有很多這一些假的反饋告訴你說這個維修網站這個維修廠商其實做得很好"},{"start":101.727,"end":129.867,"text":"其實你是看不出來的我不曉得您大家還記不記得過去公平會曾經就這樣子的廣告不實或者是虛偽不實去做出裁把不過也很多年沒有再去罰過了所以像現在在很多的網路資訊AI資訊我們或者是說在Google的關鍵字裡頭其實就可以買到相關的這些廣告對於大多數的消費者來說其實造成了極大的困擾"},{"start":131.055,"end":152.222,"text":"因為他根本不知道哪一個是正的原廠維修我也不能講說不是原廠維修的都不好但是這個還是會有可能會出現詐騙或者是說在維修的品質上面良又不齊或者是誤導消費者的狀態這個是不是也能夠請公評會能夠主動的去調查了解"},{"start":152.902,"end":171.119,"text":"跟委員報告一下過去我們處分過的案子基本上都是他的廣告內容是不實的那目前之所以委員談到說目前好像很少這個案子主要就是說現在他已經不敢不實了但是他直接就打出了我們的現在執法原則就是說如果你的網頁上讓消費者可以去判斷有判斷的機會的話那原則上我們就不能說他不實"},{"start":174.722,"end":198.176,"text":"好那他怎麼樣判斷的機會來你看一下你可以看得出來這個網頁他到底是不是真正的原廠維修他的字體非常的小小到讓你其實看不清楚比如說在左邊的這一頁他的字體非原廠的他是放在上面這字體非常的小左邊這一頁呢他是放在最底下"},{"start":199.278,"end":222.697,"text":"他其實他的字體是非常的小我們過去處分過的案子對這種字體太小或是隱匿的我們會查啦這個我還是希望你們要去了解一下啦這個其實還是有很多的消費糾紛產生所以今天特別在藉由這個我們處理公平會預算的這個審查的時候來跟您提出這樣的一個好來那個主委您請回我請一下經濟部次長我們請次長"},{"start":230.68,"end":231.421,"text":"土石採取法"},{"start":248.163,"end":259.535,"text":"被這麼關心的提出來是因為在去年的時候發生了美濃大峽谷的事件那這個美濃大峽谷還被惡意的網友把它改成叫做邁銀大峽谷"},{"start":261.84,"end":280.089,"text":"高度的指控這跟我有關係喔那我想藉著這樣的一個機會也要讓大眾很清楚的知道這個土石採取我們目前的法則老實講已經無法規範行為人次長您同意我的看法嗎"},{"start":280.729,"end":306.389,"text":"是過去從97個案件裡面的裁法我們認為說只有行政法法是不夠的因為像委員的照片所示它其實是一個盈利的行為甚至還有不肖的業者來去回舔所謂的廢棄物砂石業者有盈利行為這個我們也不排斥但是非法採取砂石做盈利盜採然後這個"},{"start":310.012,"end":330.781,"text":"偷到垃圾偷到被棄物這已經是一個產業鏈了所以我們現在的裁罰可能只罰這個司機你根本是完全扣不到真正的幕後的那一個黑手所以我看很多的委員提出來的這些版本包括上線都"},{"start":331.741,"end":345.983,"text":"提高非常多啦本期的期按的這個上限大概是2500萬應該算是在所有的期按裡面算是最少的也有提到2億的啦 1億的啦不管你的上限提高到多少我認為整體的"},{"start":347.785,"end":363.951,"text":"這一個非法盜採砂石的這個產業鏈應該要去強力的去打擊他增加刑事責任甚至包括不只是行為人不只是卡車的司機沒入他的砂石車"},{"start":365.362,"end":387.89,"text":"甚至所有的行政罰則都應該一併採納您同意我的看法嗎是 完全同意啊剛委員所說的特別是有盈利的行為不管是它即便說它是最後是回舔這個廢棄物事實上也是盈利因為這些廢棄物就是它等於兩盒賺嘛它挖了砂石起來賣了砂石賺一批嘛"},{"start":388.47,"end":410.847,"text":"回填廢棄物 非法的廢棄物 回填以後又再賺一批嘛整個產業鏈也造成了現在全台灣有所謂的土方之亂這些過去的建築營建土方目前不知道要倒去哪裡 也沒有辦法處理所以我們除了去處理倒採砂石這件事情以外我覺得經濟部"},{"start":412.668,"end":431.611,"text":"跟國土署應該就整個產業鏈整個廢棄物的處理太陽模式應該要去做更詳細的研究評估土石採取法現在加重罰環我們應該要儘速通過但我不知道為什麼行政院拖這麼久"},{"start":432.537,"end":454.789,"text":"安委員所說的確實我們在過去一段時間我們不但是要遏止這個行為我們當然這個行為必須要回復整復是一個重要性的事情這邊有涉及到跨部會我們看到我們過去的時候這應該牽扯到國土署環境部跟你們經濟部在沙石的管理上面那行政院的版本什麼時候可以出來"},{"start":455.663,"end":482.129,"text":"我們希望在兩個禮拜內啊可以提出來兩個禮拜內是出行政院吧對對如果兩個禮拜內沒有辦法出行政院呢請陳金德提頭來見嗎沒有沒有沒有其實在這個部分我們大家的溝通的部分是針對於整戶的部分但是目前大家逐漸意見的收攏之中我們希望儘速的通過這個法規恢復我們這個環境景觀跟國土的安全"},{"start":482.349,"end":499.401,"text":"您過去擔任很長一段時間的水利署署長所以您對於在河川稻採砂石這些事情其實您都了然於心我覺得在很多的規範管理跟制度化更提升賀止犯罪產業鏈的出現的這一段"},{"start":501.063,"end":528.711,"text":"這個過程我希望你能夠多用一點心那我也希望行政院的版本能夠早日提出來我們今天可能主席會待會會逐條討論但是我覺得行政院版本如果不併進來的話我們真的不知道政府單位的態度在哪裡你不能只有委員的提案你行政單位的提案到現在一直遲遲不送出來這個我們也覺得這個非常的不應該所以市長這個我們還是希望能夠交付給您很重要的任務好不好好謝謝"},{"start":531.175,"end":531.196,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:13.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:13.397000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:13.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:16.038000+08:00","text":"我先請公平會陳代理主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:17.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:17.659000+08:00","text":"請公平會主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:17.659000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:23.436000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:23.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:33.647000+08:00","text":"主委，我先請您看一下這幾個網站，請問你能夠分辨出來哪一個是原廠的維修網站嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:35.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:41.365000+08:00","text":"當然，如果從標題來看，也許不是那麼清楚，但是點進去看情況怎麼樣才能做進一步的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:41.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:56.901000+08:00","text":"但你覺得一般的民眾，比如說他的冷氣要維修，他打了一個「大金冷氣維修」這樣的Google關鍵字，跳出來這麼多的網站，你覺得消費者會每一個都點進去看，然後才知道哪一個是原廠的維修網站嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:57.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:58.662000+08:00","text":"當然從點閱的行為來看……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:58.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:16:59.662000+08:00","text":"應該不會吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:59.662000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:17:00.662000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:16:59.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:17:09.907000+08:00","text":"因為你會從Google關鍵字，或者跳出來的第一個，或許他們就會覺得這個有可能，而且每一個網站上面看起來都是直接寫某某品牌的冷氣維修嘛！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:17:11.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:17:35.688000+08:00","text":"主委，其實您看到剛剛的那一頁裡面，第二個才是真正的原廠維修網站，但是你從它的標裡頭是看不出來的，就算你點進去了以後，還是會有很多假的反饋，告訴你說這個維修網站、這一個維修廠商做得很好，其實你是看不出來的。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:17:36.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:17:38.130000+08:00","text":"我不曉得您大概還記不記得？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:17:38.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:17:48.557000+08:00","text":"過去公平會曾經就這樣的廣告不實，或者是虛偽不實做出裁罰，不過也很多年沒有再去罰過了。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:17:49.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:17:57.403000+08:00","text":"所以像現在在很多的網路資訊、AI資訊，或者是在Google的關鍵字裡頭，其實就可以買到相關的廣告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:17:57.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:18:25.202000+08:00","text":"對於大多數的消費者來說，造成了極大的困擾，因為他根本不知道哪一個是正的原廠維修，我也不能講說不是原廠維修的都不好，但是這個還是有可能會出現詐騙，或者是在維修的品質上面良莠不齊，或者是誤導消費者的狀態，這個部分是不是也能夠請公平會主動去調查了解？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:18:25.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:18:34.830000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，關於過去我們處分過的案子，基本上都是它的廣告內容是不實的，之所以委員談到說目前好像很少這個案子，主要就是基本上我們對關鍵字廣告……","quality":0.785},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:18:35.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:18:39.335000+08:00","text":"現在它已經不敢不實了，但是就直接打出了某某……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:18:40.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:18:44.119000+08:00","text":"我們現在的執法原則就是，如果你的網頁上讓消費者可以有判斷機會的話，原則上我們就不能說它不實，當然……","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:18:47.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:18:49.883000+08:00","text":"好，那要怎麼樣判斷的機會？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:18:49.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:18:55.447000+08:00","text":"你看一下，你可以看得出來，這個網頁到底是不是真正的原廠維修？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:18:56.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:13.699000+08:00","text":"它的字體非常小，小到讓你看不清楚，比如在右邊的這一頁，它的字體非原廠的是放在上面，這字體非常小；左邊這一頁它是放在最底下，其實它的字體是非常小啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:13.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:17.222000+08:00","text":"對，過去處分過的案子對於這種字體太小或是隱匿的我們會查。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:19.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:30.593000+08:00","text":"這個部分我還是希望你們要去了解一下，其實還是有很多的消費糾紛產生，所以今天特別藉由處理公平會預算審查的時候跟您提出。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳代理主任委員志民","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:30.593000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:32.134000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:32.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:33.855000+08:00","text":"好，主委，您請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:34.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:35.557000+08:00","text":"我請一下經濟部次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（楊委員瓊瓔代）","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:35.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:35.697000+08:00","text":"請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:35.697000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:19:43.680000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:19:43.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:20:33.729000+08:00","text":"次長，我們今天要討論土石採取法，土石採取法看起來有非常多的版本，其實每一個委員對於土石採取這一件事情，我應該講土石採取法會被這麼關心的提出來，是因為在去年的時候發生了美濃大峽谷事件，這個美濃大峽谷還被惡意的網友改成叫做邁瑩大峽谷，高度的指控這跟我有關係，那我想藉著這樣一個機會，讓大眾很清楚的知道土石採取法目前的罰則老實講已經無法規範行為人，次長，您同意我的看法嗎？是。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:20:34.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:20:52.043000+08:00","text":"從過去97個案件的裁罰來看，我們認為只有行政罰法是不夠的，因為像委員的照片所示，它其實是一個營利行為，甚至還有不肖的業者去回填所謂的廢棄物。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:20:52.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:22:04.564000+08:00","text":"砂石業者有營利行為，我們也不排斥，但是非法採取砂石營利，盜採然後偷倒垃圾、廢棄物，已經是一個產業鏈了，但是我們現在的裁罰可能只罰司機，根本完全扣不到真正的幕後黑手，所以我看很多委員提出來的版本，包括上限都提高非常多，本席的提案的上限大概是2,500萬，應該在所有的提案裡面算是最少的，也有提到2億的、1億的，不管上限提高到多少，我認為對於整體的非法盜採砂石的產業鏈應該要予以強力的打擊、增加刑事責任，甚至不只是行為人、不只是卡車司機，除了沒入他的砂石車，所有的行政罰則都應該一併採納，您同意我的看法嗎？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:22:04.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:22:17.409000+08:00","text":"是，完全同意，關於剛剛委員所說的，特別是有營利的行為，即便他最後是回填廢棄物，事實上也是營利，因為這些廢棄物就是……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:22:17.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:22:18.349000+08:00","text":"他等於兩頭賺嘛！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:22:18.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:22:38.002000+08:00","text":"他挖了砂石起來，賣了砂石賺一批，回填非法的廢棄物以後又再賺一批，整個產業鏈也造成了現在全臺灣有所謂的土方之亂，這些建築營建土方目前不知道要倒去哪裡，也沒有辦法處理。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:22:38.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:22:56.661000+08:00","text":"所以，我們除了去處理盜採砂石這件事情以外，我覺得經濟部跟國土署應該就整個產業鏈、整個廢棄物的處理態樣、模式要去做更詳細的研究評估。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:22:58.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:04.591000+08:00","text":"土石採取法現在加重罰鍰，我們應該要儘速通過，但我不知道為什麼行政院拖這麼久。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:05.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:16.983000+08:00","text":"委員所說的，我們在過去一段時間不但要遏止這個行為，這個行為必須要回復，整復是一個重要的事情。是啊！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:17.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:19.844000+08:00","text":"這涉及跨部會，我們看到過去採取的……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:20.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:24.247000+08:00","text":"這應該牽扯到國土署、環境部跟你們經濟部，在砂石的管理上。是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:25.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:27.789000+08:00","text":"好，那行政院的版本什麼時候可以出來？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:28.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:32.264000+08:00","text":"我們希望在兩個禮拜內可以提出來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:32.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:35.685000+08:00","text":"兩個禮拜內是出行政院吧？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:35.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:37.665000+08:00","text":"如果兩個禮拜內沒有辦法出行政院呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:39.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:39.926000+08:00","text":"請陳金德提頭來見嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:39.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:23:55.109000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有，其實在這個部分，我們大家溝通的重點是針對整復的部分，目前正在逐漸收攏意見中，我們希望儘速的通過這個法規，回復我們的環境景觀跟國土安全。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:23:55.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:15.984000+08:00","text":"次長，您過去擔任很長一段時間的水利署署長，所以您對於在河川盜採砂石這些事情其實都了然於心，我覺得在很多的規範、管理跟制度化的提升、遏止犯罪產業鏈出現的這個過程，我希望你能夠多用一點心。是。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:16.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:36.169000+08:00","text":"我也希望行政院的版本能夠早日提出來，今天主席待會可能會逐條討論，但是我覺得行政院版本如果不併進來的話，我們真的不知道政府單位的態度在哪裡，你不能只有委員的提案，你行政單位的提案到現在遲遲不送出來，我們也覺得非常不應該。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:36.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:41.171000+08:00","text":"所以，次長，我們還是希望能夠交付給您很重要的任務，好不好？是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:41.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:41.711000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-04-23T09:24:42.211000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-04-23T09:24:45.353857+08:00","text":"接下來請洪毓祥召委發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}