{"error":false,"id":["168770"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":168770,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/168770","日期":"2026-04-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-04-23T09:19:03+08:00","結束時間":"2026-04-23T09:31:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0a6b12795be5442ff75b4ad910db52a5ab56d7e35fc4ecf5c559c9b7407d71c0be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:19:03 - 09:31:16","會議時間":"2026-04-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院、司法院函請審議「民法親屬編部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員范雲等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-1-3院會付委）\n（三）委員陳素月等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-1-7院會付委）\n（四）委員吳秉叡等21人擬具「民法第一千零三十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員沈發惠等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員范雲等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-3-6院會付委）\n（八）委員林月琴等22人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員陳素月等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。（11-3-9院會付委）\n（十二）委員黃捷等18人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員賴惠員等24人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等18人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員范雲等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十八）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十九）委員邱鎮軍等16人擬具「民法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（十八）、（十九）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院、司法院函請審議「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（二）委員沈發惠等17人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（三）委員陳素月等17人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（四）委員賴惠員等24人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（五）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（六）委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（七）委員林倩綺等19人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n（八）委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「民法親屬編施行法增訂第七條之一條文草案」案。\n【第（七）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（八）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.08159375,"end":1.4653437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.22409375,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.603468750000001,"end":9.750968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.282218750000002,"end":13.075343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.805343750000002,"end":23.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.48721875,"end":25.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.84971875,"end":31.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.447843750000004,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.59971875,"end":32.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.51096875,"end":40.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.41721875,"end":42.454718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.362218750000004,"end":42.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.74159375,"end":111.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.81096875,"end":130.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.57784375000001,"end":119.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.98534375,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.73534375,"end":137.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.87034375000002,"end":138.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.25409375,"end":163.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.30034375,"end":139.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.61659375000002,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.86534375000002,"end":142.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.29971875,"end":143.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.09159375000002,"end":154.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.89284375,"end":154.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.03159375,"end":160.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.66409375,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.68909375,"end":188.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.91284375,"end":203.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.71221875,"end":212.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.99346875,"end":235.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.43721875000003,"end":254.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.15159375000002,"end":261.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.26034375,"end":274.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.13721875000005,"end":266.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.51221875000005,"end":268.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.10284375000003,"end":270.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.16971875,"end":277.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.03409375,"end":290.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.88596875,"end":280.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.52721875000003,"end":282.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.26471875000004,"end":287.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.36159375,"end":287.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.11659375,"end":293.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.96846875,"end":304.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.12409375000004,"end":297.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.65909375,"end":301.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.68846875,"end":307.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.05034375,"end":310.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.19346875,"end":314.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.01534375,"end":320.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.87971875,"end":325.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.29284375000003,"end":324.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.53284375000004,"end":328.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.15721875,"end":331.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.74721875,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.46846875,"end":341.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.65284375000005,"end":345.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.70721875000004,"end":349.39409375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陳昭芝委員謝謝主席 有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":13.82,"end":27.773,"text":"今天委員會我們要討論有關民法親屬片的善養費的請求權的修正那我想先請教部長您對善養費的定性就是在現代民法的中是被定義為這個撫養義務的延伸還是一個婚姻的補償"},{"start":32.478,"end":36.7,"text":"跟委員報告 其實善養費事實上是對未來生活的補償 它是一個補償的性質那過去在司法實務上 因為長期善養費的請求要件實在太嚴格了所以把生活陷於困難當作唯一的門檻"},{"start":52.486,"end":56.608,"text":"那這本質是一種過去是個救濟的思維那不是權力的補償同時也可能對於為了家庭犧牲而沒有辦法減少就業能力或機會的這一方讓法院再如何去做一個合理公平的客觀評價會遇到一些困難"},{"start":73.556,"end":86.973,"text":"那本次修法 社養費的請求要件不單限於這個生活限於困難這點本席給予非常高的肯定跟支持但是對於家庭的心力跟貢獻這個部分我想要來繼續延續這個問題請問法務部認為修法的方向"},{"start":91.238,"end":97.66,"text":"是不是已經做到這個去體察或是呈現該方的家務勞動價值跟職癌機會成本而且避免在婚姻當中被剝削的那個一方的這個弱勢配偶他就是變得變相的一個剝削就請問你認為現在修法有沒有達到這幾個精神"},{"start":112.621,"end":136.224,"text":"我想這部分我們修法就是要鼓勵到的確是這是未來嘛 未來的生活的話是不是會陷入困難那當然有離婚時的話有減損的那個工作能力跟就業的一些的一個機會那當然是因為離婚後我們也會保障部長就抱歉 因為很多時候聽你報告你就說離婚時其實是離婚的時候之前在這段婚姻當中"},{"start":137.164,"end":154.25,"text":"他有減損的這個減損我想那個當然是一個很準的一個時間點就因為裁判離婚嘛就是一個離婚史或兩院離婚的時候離婚史那時候就一個檢視的一個時間點當然那個原因事實的行為可能會發生在婚姻關係程序中的那個都有"},{"start":154.87,"end":159.974,"text":"那我想這部分也要是保障離婚的另外一方的補償保障他的生活剛剛相關報告有提到盛養費是具有補償婚姻的貢獻這件事是補償的功能那為什麼現在送進立法院的這個草案版本還是保留這個再婚即消滅的制度"},{"start":176.625,"end":182.39,"text":"這個部分我也是經過思考然後我今天想跟你討論這個問題如果贍養費是為了補償過去的婚姻制度婚姻的貢獻為何會因為未來身份改變就一筆勾銷的呢這難道不然是長期救濟的一種思維嗎他在補償他過去那他身份改變了就不需要補償了嗎就一筆勾銷了嗎所以我想請問部長"},{"start":203.766,"end":211.47,"text":"假設一個這個原來全職的配偶他因為前段婚姻他犧牲了也許20年的就業競爭力那難道再婚之後該方原先喪失成長空間的職業啦或減少就業的機會包括生等職等就能夠因此自動補回嗎顯然是不會的所以我對於這個再婚及消滅這部分又因為說為了婚姻的補償這個概念我想請部長您可不可以簡單的回答"},{"start":233.682,"end":252.693,"text":"這樣子是有沒有漢格呢我認為那個一個再婚再婚就是建立一個新的婚姻關係了那夫妻之間有抚養的一個義務啦那讓那個深入關係的單純化那事實上這不是我們國家發明的這個是我們有參考德國瑞士立法立法乾淨的分手也就是說"},{"start":253.413,"end":258.954,"text":"這個善良會的問題我剛才第一句就是第一段就跟你們說這是撫養義務的延伸還是說對婚姻的一個補償既然是一個補償這不是撫養義務因為夫妻離婚之後就沒有互相撫養的義務的這個問題所以不得我的疑慮所以委員你可能對這個撫養義務因為撫養義務是婚姻夫妻有撫養的一個義務所以我對於草案中保留再婚及消滅的部分那是一個生活會的一個補償"},{"start":279.958,"end":282.481,"text":"因為我們對於弱勢離婚因為發生生活困難或者是就有機會減少或者那個那個能力 陌生能力的一個精神我有請教很多朋友齁就是說期待台灣現在的那個變成說結婚越多的話那個那個是不是說會讓我們這個婚姻的一個"},{"start":298.24,"end":299.943,"text":"有個關係還可以再領贍養費不停不停我現在就事論理就是就理論理再婚即消滅就是期待他方再婚時補償責任的遺轉呢那不就跟贍養費是原配的補償說互相衝突嘛"},{"start":316.055,"end":336.742,"text":"你的意思是說他再結婚了那你過去的補償都不算數就不要再補償我想這個先進國家那個德國瑞士那個世界很先進的國家他們那個對這一種的要乾淨的分手因為今年那個再婚了就是新的婚姻的關係的一個建立有新的一個生活我今天很認真地跟你談那變成說你要再婚的配合跟原來的離婚的配合還要供養撫養要補償那個"},{"start":338.863,"end":361.765,"text":"那個一個雙重的一個一個我對你就是換個思考你就聽 我也很認真在思考我想這個是外國的立法律有非常清楚的一個立法律而且實行得非常好再婚不會改變前段婚姻他因為就業新屬的事實再婚的話因為前段婚姻已經結束了嘛那只是再婚只是因為對生活的一個補償這是我們過去的思維嘛我對這個就是要討論啦這要修法嘛因為世界新興國家就是用這一套的再處理的嘛"},{"start":362.485,"end":366.448,"text":"那這個正當性 這次的正當性就是來自過去為一個家庭的犧牲跟奉獻嘛所以贍養費的求全基礎就不應該因為再婚的事實跟否定嘛這個是本席目前跟這個院版修法方向最大的分歧啦我還是請部長好好思考因為本次修法竟然是依據112年憲判制第4號的判決 要平衡離婚自由"},{"start":385.319,"end":411.642,"text":"跟弱勢保障的核心修改的配套措施而且善養費又被視為這次弱勢該判決的一個意旨所以在本次修法當中才會納入機會成本的補償概念所以我想請教部長法務部是否願意重新檢討思考善養費因再婚而消滅的這條款其實跟你所謂的補償機制的完整性不依身份而變動是打折扣的啊"},{"start":413.016,"end":422.087,"text":"我想這個經過我們多方的一個討論學者專家還有外國的立法律我們是有得到這樣的一個先進的法律那我覺得我們本部"},{"start":428.214,"end":450.769,"text":"的意見就是依照行政院院版的這個意見因為這經過各部會專家學者機關代表的一個討論因為主席都不給我時間等一下幫我消音博定我還是請教你另外一個問題我還是請你好好的思考剛剛我講的精神補償不會因為你再婚那你就移轉給另外一個人了嗎不是嘛就是補償他過去這一段的貢獻或是他的減損那博定我要請教你"},{"start":454.011,"end":465.334,"text":"發德外一間擴建工程延宕的事因為我們前立委這個黃國昌講了很多次我不再講贅述內容背景請問部長十個月前那個黃正次他被尋時回憶他說會針對審計部所提的報告進行檢討工程案那請問出來了沒有"},{"start":471.836,"end":477.001,"text":"檢討報告出來沒有誰負責有沒有誰要受到這個懲罰我具體的提問針對那個審計部他認為應該是用政府採購法第99條卻沒有去適用這是他講的話不是我講的話辦理過程險欠合法這個就是不法的意思部長那法務部要不要檢討要不要承認這是違法啦審計部說的不是我說的"},{"start":497.316,"end":512.819,"text":"他這個 黃國昌委員他那時候在去年有質詢的那一部分那事實上我們本部有在去年這個檢討報告也就有恢復了黃志答應了 他現在都高調離開要去參選了耶那這個他沒有高調離開啦 他是我們全部參選 好好好 大家都知道嘛法務部應該要交到立法院的檢討報告那你什麼時候可以給我們嘛"},{"start":525.391,"end":533.996,"text":"因為為什麼呢 這個部長你也清楚 六天前監察院報告有指出花了29億的那個跟委員報告 這個在去年8月20日就已經含糊啦沒有 這個檢討報告 你也知道第一階段 第二階段延宕時間一個365天 一個1073天耶那我想這個延宕的這個情形 這個是一個廠商的一個停工嘛"},{"start":547.384,"end":549.667,"text":"那這部分我們計劃違約金的又給罰金我們要依照契約的話那部長我再講更細緻的部分兩階段的缺失到今年月為止總共有5099項第一階段的工程甚至有17次的復驗"},{"start":564.685,"end":568.248,"text":"那其中16項他今天沒有改變喔沒有改進喔到現在還沒有改進喔所以今天假設請署長沒有來啦我本來請教他不過請部長就來回答面對同胞商如此低劣的施工品質施工品質跟長期延宕有兩個問題嘛不只是延宕嘛那那個施工品質有幾千項的問題啊那為什麼沒有及時介入這個管理呢強制管理作為呢還有"},{"start":590.968,"end":596.011,"text":"這個我們有要求他們要做一個改善所以他不改善的話我們就是有一個可以依照企業的來來那個那個罰錢那另外那個我們也是腳證署事實上有都督導的那個巴德外間的那些工程嘛那我們要求他們要全部的來改善的一個缺失嘛那個安全品質嘛這個我想我們就按照企業的一個的規定不管是疏失"},{"start":615.923,"end":623.047,"text":"還是說擺著沒有去理他我們沒有擺著去理他我們就是要求他們一定要立即要改善他那不改善我們就花錢嘛23年7月他就進駐嘛但是現在到1月才啟動維護保養合約這兩年的空窗期耶都沒有設備維護紀錄也沒有考量管理跟運作的安全現在我們也在收治啦現在也在啟用在收治啦收治那個受刑人啦"},{"start":639.517,"end":654.45,"text":"一個是延宕嘛 一個就是這樣嘛有 那這個我們都有去做小正部的公文這樣子不好 他的新聞稿說都歸咎於外部不可控的責任啦你不能說出事 都說外部的問題啦什麼新冠啦 什麼一大堆問題你自己還是有要檢討的這個部分啦"},{"start":657.512,"end":661.713,"text":"因為如果這件事都不能好好有一個檢討報告處理老實說啦我們快要檢視法務部的寵慾算碼因為這個東西你在幾次的復驗當中你耗費那麼久的時間我們真的會擔心浪費耗納稅人的納稅錢欸你說叫我們怎麼來審理過去的這些都還沒補正啊委員關係的這個問題我再請教證書再提書面報告"},{"start":683.78,"end":686.462,"text":"一定要的啦 不能再拖延了啦當時為什麼那麼多措施 幾千項措施 沒有人去介入管理啊然後又空轉兩年多 完全沒有保養 沒有安全我們矯正署是很負責事有去"},{"start":701.075,"end":716.243,"text":"我聽說還沒看到工程是這樣在做的所以審計部跟工程會都有提出糾正我們假設做了哪些以及廠商做了哪些的要求措施這部分我們再用書面發表部長那您的報告什麼時候可以讓我知道呢就是你究責的情況"},{"start":717.438,"end":731.35,"text":"那我想一週 一個禮拜好不好一個禮拜 那我要清楚看到了因為主席要趕我了但是請你記得 拜託你就是這些事情我們要了解這是我們的責任就行政機關好好做 我們好好監督好 謝謝主席 謝謝部長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}